Religion can be visible for our Sauiour Christ saith that true vvorshippers vvorshipp God in spiritt and truth but spirituall vvorshipp and true internall deuotion is not so easily seene vnlesse therfore our aduersary suppose Popish Religion to consist in the Popes myter and in cooles of monks and such like externall matters he shall hardly proue Religion to be visible And is not this matter subtilly shifted of thinke yow or may not this man play his prize in this kind of fensinge in what place soeuer True Religion saith he is not visible What then yet men that professe true Religion are visible and by them may the continuance of true Religion be visibly deduced and this was that which his aduersary meaÌ„t when he said that the visible Church or Congregation of Englishmen comming downe visibly from the tyme of S. Gregory vnto oures and professing alwayes one and the selfe same faith Religion did make a visible Church and therby a visible deduction of Catholike Religion for the space of a thousand yeares to geather and that this was not only to be seene or proued by the Popes myter or cooles of monkes as this merry madd minister iesteth but by all English Kings crownes and coronations by all parlament robes and other honourable testimonyes of our nobility both spirituall and temporall and by whatsoeuer other most authenticall proofe this scoffer can diuise And who then will not laugh to see him for ouerthrow of all this demonstration to start out behind a bush and say Lett him shew vs yf he can that true Religion is visible Wherby yow may somewhat see into the man and his witt talent Let vs passe to the second part of his booke The second part of this new edition conteyneth as before hath byn shewed a renewinge of his former chalenge wherof yt shall not be needfull for me to speake any more in this place hauinge declared before the causes and speciall motiueâ— of this needlesse renouation only I will say that whosoeuer will take the paynes to reade the briefe learned answere of VV. R. against the same and the multitude of errors ignorances lyes and frauds therin conuinced he will blush in Sutcliffes behalfe yf he be his frend or laugh and insult ouer him yf he be his enemy and whensoeuer he shall make his reply for the first edition already answered I do not thinke but that VV. R. yf the thinge it selfe be not to contemptible will vouchsafe to returne his full reioynder both to that and this or at least wise to the most principall points of them both Wherfore we shall leaue this passe to the third part wherin we shal be forced to stay and entertaine our selues somwhat longer for examination of certayne places obiected against Maister Sutcliffe by E. O. and therby see his talent in answeâ—inge for himselfe whether yt be better then for his client before and albeit I shall not be able to stand vpon the siftinge of many places heere yet will the vew of some two or three of the first giue a good coniecture of all the rest Wherfore the third part of this new edition comprehendeth as before hath byn signified the shew of a certayne answere or defence of Maister Sutcliffe his truth and honest dealing in 26. places or therabout obiected to him by E. O. as fraudulently handled And albeit before he come to the combat he do send forth those excessiue vaunts and bragges which in part you haue heard yet in the conflict yt selfe yow are like to see the poore man not a little daunted and encumbred The difference also of speach betweene him his aduersary will appeare notoriously markeable for so much as himselfe recytinge his aduersaryes words and arguments for besides his owne relation we haue nothinge therof doth scarse euer note hard speach or phrase vsed by him against himselfe wheras the others answere is a perpetuall inuectiue of intemperate scoldinge asse dolt dizard in grayne franticke lunatike estaticall owleglas and like tearmes ate the ordinary and cheefe flowers of his phrases and yet notwithstandinge yf yow stand attent to the matter and marke what passeth in the combatt yow will quickely lay the truth of these reprochefull phrases vpon Sutcliffe himselfe and say that he deserueth them for contemning so lightly so graue modest and learned an aduersary as his seemeth to be And surely yf he be the man in deed whome Sutcliffe aduentureth to name in some partes of his annswere that is to say Maister Ph. VV. I haue knowne him for such many yeares and he may hold Sutcliffe to Schoole as many yeares more in discretion vertue and true skill of diuinity yf a man may iudge of him accordinge to his wrytings but this shall appeare better by the examination of the places which I â—aue promised to discusse And yet heere yow must be aduertised that we shall not be able to make this exameÌ„ so exactly in all points as otherwayes we would desire for that we haue not the treatise yt selfe of E. O. his accusations for which cause we are forced to alleage things only as Sutcliffe is content to cyte them whome in euery thinge lightly we find both faulty false and faithlesse and therfore yf he be conuinced heere by his owne relation yow must be sure that yt is with more then euident reason The first place then obiected by E. O. against O. E. now discouered to be Mathuw Sutcliffe ys taken out of this chalenge of the first edition cap. 1. pag. 20. num 10. where he auoucheth boldly that the vse of exorcisuis blowinge salt spittle ballowed water annoyntments lights and other such ceremonyes as his words are vvere not practized by the auncient Church c. Against which false assertion E. O. obiecteth first Iohn Caluyn his maister who confesseth these ceremonyes to be very ancient And secondly he alleageth diuers Fathers that make mentioÌ„ of the same each one in their tymes Origen Nazianzen Ambrose and others Lett vs see now how this minister will deliuer himselfe of this first charge and do you marke his shifts for neuer mouse in a trapp nor dogge in a cannase did seeke more holes to runne out at thâ—â— this slippery fellow First about Caluyn he seemeth to be most troubled esteeminge more of his authority perhaps then of all the rest alleaged and therfore he saith How leglasse doth affirme for so he teasmeth his aduersary without comparison more learned then himselfe that Caluyn doth confesse yt to witt the antiquity of these ceremonyes but vvhat yf yt be true and vvhat yf Maister Caluyn do not confesse that vvhich I say to be vntruth Marke good reader do you not see heere a sound beginninge of answeringe by contrary interrogations to witt what yf yt be true and what yf yt be not true but yow will aske me what in the end is his resolution about Iohn Caluyn Yow shall heare yt many lines
que ie suis d'auis que mes seruiteurs tiennent pour tirer fruict de ce saincte oeuure Bon soir mon amy Sachant le plaisir que vous en aurez Vous estes seul a qui l'on le mande Le 5. de May. 1600. Henry Au dessus de la lettre A mon Cousin le Duc d' Espernon THE COPIE OF THE K. OF FRANCE HIS FORMER LETTER TO the Duke of Espernon concerninge the late triall had betwene the B. of Eureux and the Lord Plessis translated into English CHAP. VI. MY Friend The Diocesse of Eureux hath ouercome the Diocesse of Saumur and the sweet manner of proceedinge that hath byn vsed hath taken away all occasion to any Hugenot whatsoeuer he be to say that any force hath byn vsed beside the only force of truth The bearer heerof was present at the combatt who will informe yow what maruayles I haue done therin Certanily it is one of the greatest blowes that hath byn giuen for the Church of God this long while for the manifestation of this error By this meanes we shall reduce more in one yeare of them that are separated from the Church then by any other way in 50. yeares There were a large discourse to be made of each of their actioÌ„s but the same were to long to wryte The bearer shall tell you the manner which I would haue all my seruants to obserue for reapinge fruite of this holy worke Good night my friend And for that I know what pleasure yow will take heerof yow are the only man to whome I haue wrytten yt This 5. of May. 1600. Henry The superscription To my Cosyn the Duke of Espernon EXTRICT DV POSTSCRIPTVM DE LA LETTRE DE CELVY QVI enuoy a ceste Coppie dela lettre du Roy a Rome CHAP. VII Monsieur Iâ— vous enuoyé la coppie de la lettre du Roy qu'il a enuoyé a Monsieur d'Espernon sur la dispute de l'Euesque d'Eureux contre du Plessi-Mornay pour verifier son liure qui s'est de tout trouué faulx s'en est allé cacher comme vn regnard Dieu conduise tout a bonne fin a sa gloire salut des ames An extract of the Postscript of the letter of him that sent this coppy of the forsaid K. letter to the French Embassadour in Rome My Lord. I do send yow heere the coppy of the Kings letter wrytten to the Duke of Espernon about the disputation of the B. of Eureux against Plessis Mornay for iustifyinge of his booke found altogeather false and he is gone to hide him selfe like a Fox God conduct all to a good end for his glory and saluation of mens soules Thus much do wryte the King and his secretary the one to the Duke of Espernon the other to Monsieur Sylary Embassador in Rome both of them present at the conference The Kings letter as yow see is very substantiall yt seemeth his Maiestie was greatly moued himselfe by the seeing and hearing of this combatt For so much as he affirmeth so resolutely that yt was one of the greatest blowes that had byn geuen for the Church of God a long while for discouering the erroneous proceedings of Protestants The secretary also auoucheth as yow see the falshood found in Mornayes booke and that for shame therof he was gone to hide himselfe like a Fox Now shall yow heare three other letters relating more particularly the circumstances of this conference with the Acts successe therof though all very breifely in respect of the Acts themselues THE COPIE OF THE LETTER OF MONSIEVR PERON B. OF EVREVX to the L. Silary Embassadour for the K. of France in Rome the 10. of May 1600. CHAP. VIII My Lord. AT length the victory of the combat betwixt the L. Plessis and me remayneth to the Catholike Church and after many tergiuersations which he vsed for the space of 5. or 6. dayes at Fontayne-bleau I sent him on wednesday the third of May threescore falsifications taken out of his booke to begin the play withall for him to prepare himselfe to answere the next day Of them he chose out 19. the which he went told the King the next day that he had chosen forth examined and found true and that he would loose his life yf any one of them were proued to be falsely cited After dynner the same day in the same place he came forth in the presence of his Maiestie and of 7. or 8. Princes and of the L. Chancelour of France and other officers of the crowne and Counsellors of State Where first his Maiestie declared both by himselfe and by the L. Chancelour that he would not in any wise that in this confereÌ„ce should be handled any point of Catholike Religion wherof he doubted nothinge and knew also that the iudgment therof pertained vnto the Sea Apostolike but only of the particular busynes of the L. of Plessis whether he had falsified the texts of the Fathers or no I added that when Hunnericus K. of the Vandalâ—s would haue had the Catholiks dispute with the Arrians Eugenius Archbishopp of Carthage as Victor of Vtica rehearseth answered that he could not do yt without the consentment of other Bishopps chiefly of the Church of Rome which is head of all others that this my entring into the present conference was not for that I bare lesse respect vnto the Seat Apostolike then that holy Bishop did But because there was no questions of Religion heere to be discussed but only to shew the falsifications of the L. Plessis about the which I was well content to haue the iudgment of the assistants for as much as appertained to the knowledg of Grammer to witt whether the L. Plessis had corrupted the words of the authors or no but not as touching points of diuinity the which the K. Maiestie had already very wisely forbidden vs to treat for that he will not heerin follow the example of K. of Iuda which vsurped the incensour and the function of priesthood but rather of Constantyne Theodose and other religious Emperors in remittinge the decision of Ecclesiasticall matters vnto the Church This done we began to dispute I began to obiect vnto him those places which himselfe had chosen out amongst threescore sent to him by me the day before following therin the same order that he had taken in choosing them out the which all were conuinced of falshood in order as they were proposed sentence was pronounced against him vpon euery place by the heretiks themselues which assisted him there and all with one voyce condemned him The King in this conference hath shewed himselfe so wise so intelligent so affectionate so zealous taking vp the argument against him at euery occasion and pressing him by disputation and so conuincing him of diuers falshoods as he hath shewed manifestly his witt and affection towards the Catholike Religion admirable
to all France which now doth shed teares for ioy to see their King to excell as much all others in piety deuotion and zeale towards the aduauncement of Gods Church as he hath surpassed them in valour and victory This first conference ended the L. Plessis goinge from the combatt pale astonished and maruelously confounded fell into great conuulsions vomitinge tremblinge of his body for the rest of that day and for all the day followinge was possest with a strange vniuersall tremblinge of all the members of his body and euer synce hath remayned sicke and hath not byn able nor durst shew himselfe I pray God this may serue not so much to his confusion as to his coÌ„uersion whome I beseech also to grauÌ„t you my L. a good a happy life From paris this 10. of may 1600. Your humble and affectionated seruant Iames B. of Eureux Postscript This letter which I wryte vnto your honour is a copy of that which I wryte to Cardinall Aldebrandino and to the Cardinall of Aux because the bearer vrged by the post hath not giuen me leasure to do otherwise The superscription To my Lord. The L. Silary the K. Counselour of his Counsell of State Embassadour for his Maiestie at Rome AN EXTRACT OF ANOTHER LETTER VVRITTEN BY THE Popes Nuntio resident in Paris vnto Cardinall Aldobrandino the Popes Nephew in Rome the 12. of May 1600. CHAP. IX I HAVE freshly receaued newes from Fountaine-bleau of the prosperous successe of the conference betwene the B. of Eureux and the L. Plessis Mornay The Bishopp hath conuinced manifestly by the iudgment and sentence of all the assistants the falshoods as he had before promised Wherfore the said Plessis was so ashtonished and troubled that he fell presently sicke of an Ague The King himselfe in this conference hath shewed great vnderstandinge and no lesse zeale to the Catholike Religion The whole redoundeth much to the confusion of the Hugonotts heere who held Plessis for their S. Augustine c. Paris the 12. of May 1600. THE WORDS OF ANOTHER LETTER VVRITTEN FROM PARIS the 10. of May about the same matter by a gentleman of accoumpt CHAP. X. HEERE hath byn some 4. dayes past a great conference at Fontayne bleau 15. leagues hence betwene Monsieur Peron B. of Eureux Monsieur Plessis Mornay Counselour to his Maiestie Gouernour of Saumur and generall of the Hugonotts The K. with other Princes were present and iudges chosen appointed for both partyes In the end Plessis Mornay was vtterly disproued and confounded by a generall consent of both sides and shamed in so much as the K. rose vp from his place swore Ventre S. Gry he had heard and seene inough of Plessyes falsityes that by Act of Parlament he would cause his bookes to be burned sayinge that himselfe had all his youth tyme ben abused and carryed away with their corruptions He presently sent word vnto the Duke of Espernon sayinge that the B. of Eureux had gotten the gouernement of Saumur and willed that the Doctors Preachers in Paris should be aduertised therof to publish yt and so yt is in pulpitts with great ioy and thanks to God The Hugonotts are stroken more dead with with this accident then yf they had lost a battle of 40. thousand men Plessis Mornay himselfe is fallen sicke vpon yt vomitts bloud and lookes like himselfe There was present of Plessis side a great Hugonot of accoumpt amoÌ„g other called Monsieur du Gramond who seing the euent of that confereÌ„ce said that he neuer in his life durst follow Monsieur Plessis for a Captayne but now he would lesse follow him for a diuyne It is hoped that the said Gramond will become a Catholike vpon yt Monsieur du Rosney also and heresie was neuer so likely to go to wracke in France as at this present c. Paris this 10. of May 1600. An addition of the translatour HITHERTO are the letters which I haue thought good to translate out of French to sett downe in this place concerning the euent of this triall and combat as also of the great and high honour which the most Christian King of France hath gayned by being present furthering the same in his royall person Which act will be vnto him besides the benedictioÌ„ of almighty God tâ—erby gayned as we hope an euerlastinge praise with all posterity And yf yt might please the same mighty hand of our Sauiour by his holy grace to inspire the heart of her Maiestie of England by the example of so famous a fact of her neighbour and colleague and deare Cosyn the K. of France to take the same course in England and to heare and permitt the like triall betweene such Catholiks as would offer to prooue conuince the like falshoods falsifications and greater also perhaps in the chiefe protestant wryters of our nation as Iewell Fox Fulke the like and that some of the learned and zealous of the other side might be intreated or commaunded toe defend the same or if they refuse this then at least some competent number of equall iudges might be assigned on both sides to heare the matter with the same lawes and conditions as the matter passed in France to witt that no point of controuersie or disputation be admitted to be disputed of but only matter of fact discussed As for example whether such and such places and authorityes as are cyted quoted in their wrytings out of Fathers Doctors Councells and storyes and are auouched by Catholiks to be falsified be so or no If this I say might be obtayned seeing larger triall disputation so often and earnestly by vs demaunded cannot be had and that by the wisdome and authority of her Maiestie her honourable Councell this at last might be brought to passe yt would be an infinite comfort to all sincere and true meaninge men of all sides which desyre indeed to know the truth And as for the triall it selfe yt would be more easy breefe and pleasant vnto her Maiestie and other assistants whosoeuer they should be For that as the B. of Eureux well noteth before yt wil be sufficient for this triall to bringe only eyes and to open the books whence the authorityes are cyted And to the end that some tast before hand may be taken of the matter which would breake forth in such a triall concerning the Protestants part I haue thought good to adde these few obseruations that do ensue which are of a person that would willingly offer himselfe in this seruice or at least to send and represent some part of those obseruations which to this effect he hath gathered CERTAINE OBSERVATIONS VPON THE FORMER NARRATION CHAP. XI THOVGH yt be hard for any man to reflect and make obseruations vnto himselfe of what may best be noted by the precedent story relation yet to help the Readers memory to stirre vp somwhat more his vnderstandinge and discourse
about the premisses I haue not thought amisse to resent in part by this postscript what occurreth vnto me in this behalfe And first of all is the wonderfull prouidence of almighty God in conseruation and continuation of the ould ancient Catholike Apostolike vniuersall faith left at the assension of our Sauiour vnto his followers and visible Church that then was and spread by them miraculously in very short space ouer all the world and continued euer since by tradition and succession of one age to another vntill our tyme vnder the protection and mighty powerable defence of the same Lord and Sauiour and vnder the gouernement of his only espouse the said Catholike Church Against which Church discent of faith therin though many new fantasyes and deuises of particular men which holy scriptures call heresies haue spronge vp in euery age with fresh and glisteringe titles of pure ghospell of new reueyled truth of godly reformation and other like pretenses and that God for more triall and exercise of his said Church for the speedier redresse perhaps of some abuses and corrupt manners crept into some part therof hath permitted the said new inuentions to preuayle grow and ruffle for a tyme as by experiēce of all ages we haue seene yet euer in the end he bringeth the same to confusion and shame accordinge to those words of the Psalme Percussit inimicos suos in posteriora opprobrium sempiternum dedit eis He striketh his enemyes in the hinder parts that is towards the end of their ruffle and confoundeth them with euerlasting shame Which prophesy of the Psalmist is principally to be vnderstood of hereticall enemyes as Tertullian Epiphanius other anciēt Fathers wryting against them do interprete and the experience of like end in all heresies past doth make yt playne And this shame and confusion of heresies heretiks which Gods prouidence doth heere fortell and in tyme also bringeth to passe so manifestly as the whole world may be wittnesse therof consisteth principally in foure points as holy Fathers do note First that euery new sect diuideth it selfe quickly into many others sects and heresies which S. Augustine sheweth largely of the Arrians and Donatists and Staphilus Lyndanus and other wryters of our time do shew the same of Luthers sect diuided into so many sects branches in so few yeares as all the world seeth And Stanislaus Rescius a learned man of Polonia◠in his late booke of the Atheisine of haeretiks sheweth out of the wrytings of protestants themselues that in the yeare 1596. when he wrote his booke which was but 4. yeares past that there were now extant in the world 270. different sects all risen out of Luthers from the yeare 1517. wherin Luther began All which he declareth at length the reason of this so great multiplication is giuen by Tertullian in his booke Of prescription against heretikes aboue 1400. yeares past sayinge That for so much as euery scholler of a sectary knoweth that his maister inuented his opinions of his owne head he will inuent also somethinge himselfe therby to shew that his witt is not inferiour to that of his Maisters And heerby they come to such confusion in the end that one destroyeth the other Wherof Luther himselfe is a good witnesse when he wryteth these words Truly God doth not fight by any other meanes with heretiks then by permittinge among them a certayne seditious spiritt of dissention by which their ouerthrow also and perdition doeth ensue So he who is a wittnesse in this cause without exception as yow know The second reproach followinge sectaryes is Contradiction to themselues in their owne wrytings and sayings and shamfull inconstancy in their doctrine The reason wherof is for that the said doctrine consystinge only in the inuention iudgment and memorye of the sectarye himselfe that inuented yt or chose to follow yt though inuented by another for whatsoeuer they alleage of scripture or other antiquity must depend of their owne new inuented interpretation of necessity it must follow that as their talents and witts discourse or memory do alter change or faile in tyme so must the doctrine also therof dependinge be altered And so eyther forgetting what they said in one time or place or matter or hauing altered their iudgment or opiniō vpon some further reason which then they saw not they must needs come to say cōtrary to that they did before In which kind of contradiction some thousands haue byn noted by learned men in Luther himselfe no maruayle seeing he was the first of that sect that inuented new opinion◠dayly And the same is obserued in Caluyns wrytings by VVestphalus Hesshusius and other Lutheran Protestants that wrote against him The third confusion that followeth commonly vpon heresie is coldnes doubtfulnesse in Religion and at length also plaine atheisme and contempt and thervpon dissolution of life neglect of conscience and other sutable effects which therfore among heretiks principally do ensue For that heresie callinge into question and shaking the very pillars and strongest meanes wherby men remayned assured before of their faith to witt the number quality and right vnderstandinge of holy scriptures tradition of the Church from whome we receaued them the verity of Ecclesiasticall storyes Christian miracles authority of generall Councells creditt of ancient Fathers and the like and breakinge downe besides the hedges and walles that were wont to be bulwarks to good life as Confession Restitution Satisfaction fastinge vowinge and other helpes of that quality this I say being once done which is the proper worke of heresy a man runneth naturally into doubt contempt of all and consequently leesing by little and little both feare and shame geueth himselfe ouer easily to all licentious liberty and sensuality of life which the Apostle calleth Desperation And thus much of the cause of this third reproach For as for the effect yt selfe to witt that these fruits haue followed in the world since heresies came in much more then euer before I could alleage both Luther himselfe and Erasmus Roterodauius and other authors of most creditt with Protestants testifyinge of their dayes and as for England yt selfe the present knowledge experience of thousands will beare me witnesse Wherfore I meane to prosecute no further these first 3. reproaches followinge heresies and heretiks to witt◠diuision among themselues contradiction to themselues and dissolution of life or propension to Atheisme though for the Readers fuller instruction therin yf he vnderstand the Latin tongue I must needs giue him notice of two famous bookes wrytten of late of that argument by two excellent learned men of our tyme taken out of the works themselues of all the Sectaryes of this age The one is of our contreyman Maister VVilliam Reynolds once fellow of new-colledg in Oxford a Protestant Preacher intituled Caluino◠turcismus that is of
be answered albeit yf he do but sett downe the whole places themselues as they ly in the Fathers books whence they are cut they will need no answere but will answere themselues and confute the alleager and shew the shamlesse dealinge eyther of Peter martyr or Iohn Fox or of both in cytinge them The like deceytfull dealinge was vsed by Nicolas Ridley B. then of Rochester and after of London the next moneth following in the Cambridge disputation about the same controuersy of the reall presence wherof he being president Martyn Bucer refusinge vtterly to deale in that controuersie he affirmed to the whole vniuersity that he had fiue sure grounds for the opinion of Zuinglius wherof the first was to vse his words the authority Maiestie and verity of holy scriptures the second the most certayne testimonyes of the ancient Catholike Fathers c. Wheras the truth is that both these foundations are most euidently against him as much the one as the other which Bucer well kâ—ew therfore would not take part with him in that matter though soone after to remedy this breach he putt vp three other impertineÌ„t questions to be disputed against Catholiks but in this other article he know that Ridley lyed shamfully against his owne conscience for that all Farthers are against him most euidently so do the Magdeburgians their cheefe Protestant Chroniclers shew declare in euery age or century of their Ecclesiasticall history And yt shal be sufficient for the reader to cast his eye ouer the 4. Chapters only of euery century intituled of doctrine And thus much for K. Edwards dayes when Zuinglian Religion first peeped vp in our countrey After this man stepped to Paules Crosse in the beginninge of this Queenes dayes about the yeare 1559. and 1560. Maister Iohn Iewell otherwise called B. of Salisbury and he proceeded yet further in this bragg or fiction For he protested there euen with feigned teares that yf any one authority place sentence or asseueration of any one Father Doctor Councell or authenticall history within the first 600. yeares after Christ could be brought forth by any man liuinge for any one of those points of Catholike Religion which he there recyted to be in controuersie that then plainely and sincerely he vvould subscribe Against which vayne and shamlesse bragg when Doctor Harding and diuers other learned men of our side began to wryte from Louayne and to bring forth authorityes of all Fathers Doctors Councells and historyes in great aboundance the first effect of this chalenge that appeared to the world was a seuere proclamation that no such bookes wrytten in English by the Catholike party should be receaued or read in England vnder great punishments by which prouision Maister Iewell thinking himselfe meetly well deâ—enced he plyed the pulpitt often and renewed his chalenges many tymes and perceauing notwithstaÌ„ding that Doctor Hardings confutation was come into England he answered the same with a longe volume of Rhetoricall words stuffed the margents therof with the shew of infinite authors as though the whole world had byn for him and none for the other side and with this he deceaued the people then and doth to this day such I meane as haue not commodity or learninge or other meanes to examine those places and to find out the manifold lyes and falsifications therin conteyned And this was the gaine by all likely hood that Maister Iewell preteÌ„ded to his cause by that worke knowing full well that this sort of men is farre the greater which would be gayned and setled in his doctrine before the learneder sort who are but few in comparison of the other could haue tyme books and commodity to discouer refute him when they should do yt they should hardly be beleeued And in this conceate he was not deceaued yf we respect that present tyme and many yeares after as also yt is probable the L. Plessis Mornay had the like designment in stuffing vp his bookes with the like authorityes of Fathers but yf we consider the continuance of tyme wherof truth is said to be the daughter yt hath succeeded vnto him as yow haue heard and will do more and more dayly as to such shifts is wont to happen that is to say accordinge to Kinge Dauids sayinge before recorded â—pprâ—brium sempiternum dedit eis God layeth euerlastinge shame vpon them For how many learned men lightly of our nation haue taken vpon seriously to go ouer that booke of Maister Iewells to examine yt by the authors themselues with any indifferency of mynd haue for the most part byn therby conuerted to Catholike Religion though neuer so great Protestants before of which sort I haue heard relation of many but of some I can testify my selfe for that I haue heard it from their owne mouthes who of earnest Protestants were made most zealous Catholikes by that meanes principally of which number I thinke yt not inconuenient to name hâ—â—re some 2. or 3. omittinge others which for iust respects may not to be named The first of them is Syr Thomas Copley made Lord afterward in his banishment by the K. of France who often tymes hath related vnto me with much comfort of his soule how that being a zealous Protestant and very familiar to the late Earle of Licester in the beginninge of this Q. dayes when Maister Iewells booke was newly come forth he being also learned himselfe in the Latyn tongue tooke paines to examine certayne leaues therof and findinge many falshoods therin which were in excusable as they seemed to him he conferred the same with the said Earle who willed him that the next tyme Maister Iewell dyned at his table he should take occasion after dynner to propose the same which he did soone after and receauing certaine triflinge answers from Maister Iewell he waxed more hoate and vrged the matter more earnestly which Iewell perceauinge told him in effect That Papists were Papists and so they were to be dealt withall and other answere he could not gett which thinge made the good Gentleman to make a new resolution with himselfe and to take that happy course which he did to leaue his countrey and many great commodityes which he enioyed therin to enioy the liberty of conscieÌ„ce for saluation of his soule and so he both liued and died in voluntary banishment for confession of that truth which his Sauiour by occasion of Maister Iewells falshood had reueyled vnto him The second example which I remember of my owne knowledge is Maister Doctor Steuens a learned man yet aliue who being Secretary or Chaplyn to Maister Iewell for I remember not well whether and a forward man in Protestant Religion at that tyme espied certayne false allegations in his Maisters booke whilst yt was yet vnder the print in London wherof aduertisinge him by letters for that he supposed yt might be by ouersight the other commaunded notwithstandinge the print to goe forward and passed it ouer
as it was which this man seeing that had a conscience and sought the truth indeed resolued to take another way of findinge yt out and hauinge found yt in the Catholike Church where only it was to be found he resolued also to follow yt and so he did and went voluntarily into banishment for the same where yet he liueth vnto this day in France with good reputation both of learninge and godlynes The third example that I call to mynd is the worthy man before named Maister VVilliam Reynolds who being first an earnest professor and Preacher of Protestant Religion in England and much engaged amonge the Puritans in Northampton-shire as he was wont to tell he fell in the end to read ouer Maisters Iewells booke and did translate some part thereof into Latyn but before he had passed halfe ouer he found such stuffe as made him greatly mislike of the whole Religion and so he leauing his hopes commodityes in England went ouer the sea into these parts and the last yeare of Iubiley to witt 1575. he came to Rome and brought that booke with him and presented both himselfe and yt to the Tribunall of Inquisition of his owne free motion and accord where I ghesse the booke remayneth still yf yt be not burned and himselfe after absolution receaued from his former errors which he with great humility and zeale required my selfe also at that tyme spake with him in that place he returned into France and Flanders and there liued many yeares with singular edification for his rare vertue learninge and how hartily indeed he was conuerted may well appeare by his zealous wrytinge both in Latyn English in defence of Catholike Religion in confutation of Protestant errors which himselfe before had held for verityes And thus much of the falshood of Maister Iewells wrytyngs wherof he that will see more lett him read Maister Hardings returne of vntruthes but especially yt would import him that hath learninge leasure and commodity to examine the quotations themselues by a good library but in this kind of false dealinge I can giue Maister Iewell a compagnion as good as himselfe yf not exceedinge him which is Iohn Fox who aboue all that euer wrote perhaps may be recorded for notorious in this behalfe I haue had occasion these monethes past to peruse a great part of his last edition of Acts and Monuments printed the fifth tyme in the yeare 1596. and do find it so stuffed with all kind of falshood and deceytfull manner of telling tales as I could neuer truly haue beleeued yt yf I had not found yt by my owne experience And I do persuade my selfe fully notwithstandinge all his hypocriticall words and protestations which are more and oftener repeated by him then in all the wryters togeather that I haue read in my life that there is scarse one whole story in that huge volume told by himselfe except when he relateth other mens words out of records and therby is bound to the formality therof but that it is falsified and peruerted one way or other eyther in the beginning middle or end by adding cutting of concealing false translating wrong cyting or cunning iugling and falsification which I do not speake for any tooth against the man that is dead and whome I neuer knew but in respect of truth only and of so many deceaued soules as are in danger to perish by his deludinge them Nor when I speake of Maister Fox his falshoods do I make accompt of any errors or ouersights though neuer so grosse that are found in him as to reckon some for Martyrs that were aliue at the making of his booke for this he excuseth in his later edition in that he was deceaued by false informations nor do I vrge that others are made Calendar-martyrs by him whome he cannot gainsay but that they were malefactors and some of them eyther madde or denyed Christ himselfe and yet placeth he them in his Calendar for Saints These escaped I say are not heere to be vrged by me now but rather in another place The points that I for the present accuse him of are willfull corruptions and falsifications that cannot be excused as among other things and for examples sake when he recyteth any point in controuersie of the Catholiks doctrine he putteth yt downe commonly in plaine coÌ„trary words sense to that which he must needs know that they holde and teach for so much as their publike books are extant in euery mans hands to testifie the same Of this kind a certaine learned student of diuinity brought to me of late 30. places taken out of two only leaues of Fox his booke to witt from the 12. to the 14. which I looking vpon found them all most euident by conference of the Catholike authors alleaged by the said student and moreouer besides these thirty I did discouer so many other plaine falshoods and manifest willfull lyes in those only two leaues as might well double the former number and I do offer to proue them one by one yf any frend of Iohn Fox will ioyne issue with me vpon this point And then yf by Arithmetique a man will multiply these lyes falsifications of two leaues only with a thousand and more which Fox hath in this last volume and will adde afterward to euery two leaues so many falshoods the number will rise to so huge an accoumpt as were a shame to sett downe and would much surpasse Iohn Sleyâ—ans Story in this kind though he be the Protestants Protochronicler out of which an eleuen thousand lyes were only gathered by the Catholike wryters of Germany And this is so much as for the present seemeth needfull to be said about this matter The end of the relation there followeth the defence A DEFENCE OF THE PRECEDENT RELATION against the shiftes calumniations and tergiuersations as well of the L. Plessis himselfe and some of his Hugonotes in France as of their Proctor O. E. in England The Preface concerninge the authority of the Actes sett forth in France THE former relation being sett downe wholy and entirely as yt was printed in the yeare 1600. though somwhere more explaned and towards the end made sâ—orter I am first to yeld a reason in this place why the passages or points accused of falshood that vvere handled in the conference ensue not heere as they did in the former edition wherof the cause is for that those passages indeed were neuer seene or viewed by the relator himselfe but added only by a frend as in the preface therof is signified according to his wrytten copy receaued from Paris which copy though it agree in truth and substance with the publike Acts themselues of that confereÌ„ce which afterward haue byn authentically 〈◊〉 sorth yet for that the points are not so cleerly laid open as some men perhaps would require I haue thought good to relate the same againe in this my defence out of the said Acts
side began as hath byn said to enter into another cogitation to thinke whether yt were not best by this occasion to seeke out the truth of matters indeed and that without pertinacity or passion for so much as yt was a matter concerninge the eternall saluation or damnation of their soules And this happy course amonge others tooke as in part before yow haue vnderstood the aforsaid noble man of Normandy Monsieur Sainct-Mary du Mont who being a great Protestant before was first moued towards Catholike Religion partly by the Sermons of Monsieur Buchage brother to Duke Ioyeus made afterward a Capuchin friar as hath byn declared which Sermons were principally against the falsifications of Plessis in his booke against the Masse partly also by the sight of some of the said falsifications themselues shewed vnto him in priuate by the said B. of Eureux before the conference but he was fully conuerted by the trialll it selfe and became afterward a zealous Catholike But more notorious and admirable was the conuersion of the L. Fresnes Canay cheife president for the Protestant party in the parlament Chamber called Demy party in Languedocke chosen by Monsieur Plessis himselfe for chiefe deputy on his party for this conferēce who taking the same course in enforminge himselfe found matters so euident as he became a Catholike vpon the sight of this triall and that with such feruour as he would not be absolued secretly of his heresie before held as for respect vnto his dignity and place was offered but would needs abiure publikely in the hands of the B. of Paris and so he did being a very learned man in his profession at this day is Embassadour for his Christian Maiestie with the State of Venice where his wife in like manner the last yeare by his owne especiall meanes she being a Lady of much nobility was conuerted also both of them remayned most zealous Catholiks Which two examples of Monsieur Sainct-Mary and Mousieur President Fresnes both of them being learned and earnest Protestants all their life before did greatly mooue the King himselfe for his comfort and confirmation in Catholike Religion but no one thing so much as his being present at the forsaid Conference and so he is said to haue often confessed afterward for that he saw there that which he could neuer haue imagined to witt that men of learning iudgment would willfully for maintayninge of faction wryte and publish that which they must needs know in their consciences to be false He cōsidered that these 9. places there examined were picked out by Plessis himselfe of 60. sent him by the Bishop and that these 60. were but a parcell of 500. which the said B. had bound himselfe to exhibite in 10. dayes to be discussed and that by all probability the forsaid 9. were of the least falsified and easiest to be defended of all the rest at least wise of the first 60. for that otherwise Monsieur Plessis would not haue chosen them Wherfore hauinge seene by experience that no one of those 9. was able to be defended from plaine and willfull falshood he imagined what would fall out in the rest if the conference had gone forward and if all should passe as in these 9. throughout the 500. there ready to be exhibited yea in 3500. more which the Bishop said he had gathered out and offered to bynd himselfe to conuince them of no lesse falsity and imposture then those nyne and all this out of one boooke These things I say laid togeather his Maiestie had good cause to thinke what may be thought of that mans conscience that wryteth and printeth such a booke in matters of Religion Moreouer his Maiestie could not but remember what tales the said Plessis and other such fellowes had told him against Catholiks Catholike Religion for many yeares whilst he was yet a Protestant to witt that they had no truth on their side no antiquity noe true ancient authority but all was for them and their new pretended Religio◠He could not forgett also what sollemne protestations they were accustomed to make of their owne sincerity both in wrytinge and preachinge and especially Plessis in this last contētion about his booke before yt came to the tryall offering to leese his life and honour yea to burne his owne hand yf any one place were proued to be wittingly corrupted or falsified which yet was so euidently conuinced by the triall not in one only but in euery one of the nine places as no man of reason could deny yt and the deputyes of his owne party gaue sentence against him Wherfore this hauing so fallen out and the Bishop of Eureux protestinge of his side that the places of greatest corruption remayned yet behind aboue twenty fold more in number then those that had byn examined seing also the shamfull flight of Monsieur Plessis from the continuation of the combatt and the shamelesse discourse cast abroad by him without a name wherin many matters of fact well knowne to his Maiesty were denied affirmed or disguised according to passion most contrary to the knowne reall truth therof All these considerations I say many other concurring togeather and representing themselues to his Maiesties wisdome made him to feele infinite comfort in the happy resolution he had taken of being a Catholike and to contemne from that day forward all contentious wrytings of factious sectaryes that care not what they say or wryte so they may therby hould vp their sect and faction Neyther did this euent of Plessy Mornayes conferēce worke those effects only for the openinge his Maiesties eyes and vnderstanding in Religion but of many more besides throughout France wherof though I be not so particularly informed as many others bee yet diuers persons of marke could I name besides the former two that receaued like light grace from almighty God by the same meanes and of great Hugonots became good Catholiks as the L. Baron Saligniac Liefetennant for the K. of the countrey of Lymoge togeather with his wife daughter of the Chauncelour intituled Del Hospital and sister to the Archbishopp of Ais. The L. Baron du Bonneuald a great noble man in Lymosin togeather with another Baron of Gascoigne whose name occurreth not at this present though I haue seene the narration of his conuersion wrytten out of France Monsieur du Sansay Entendent ouer the Kings Finances in France Diuers cheefe learned men also and among them some Ministers as namely Monsieur Caiette late Minister and Preacher to the Kings sister marryed to the Prince of Loraine togeather with diuers of her cheefe officers amongst which was Monsieur du lac de Barn Monsieur Rebeul Monsieur Sponde th' elder two great learned men and another Sponde brother to the former no lesse learned who at this day hath the care of the Popes library in Rome togeather with a nephew of Iohn Caluyn conuerted entertayned like wise by his
base and vnworthy aduersaryes pleasure is saith he to contend with me about certayne small quyrks and questions about certayne pretended vntruthes and falsifications c. And againe Your honour shall perceaue the great weaknesse of our aduersaryes and the pouerty of the principall actors in the same vvho abandoninge the mayne points in controuersie begin now to picke quarrells at words allegations points quotations and other by-matters and ceasing to ioyne with vs and like diuines to argue and dispute fall to plaine calumniation and rayling Thus he And heere againe I doubt not but the Lord Vmpyre will laugh to heare Sutcliffe accoumpt the falsification of Fathers Doctors and auncient wryters and this both in words sense alleaging them expressely against their owne meaninge to be but quirkes quarrells and questions about words points quotations and other such by-matters as yf two contending about some great inheritance and the one obiectinge that his aduersary had falsifyed the euidences whereby the whole controuersy must be tryed the other should answere that these are but quirks and by-matters And this is the accoumpt which Maister Sutcliffe and his people do make of false or true dealinge or changinge choppinge alteringe or peruertinge the authors whome they alleage as yt maketh best for their purpose But we on the contrary side must heere professe as men bound to strict truth that we esteeme highly of these matters not only in cheefe points of controuersies the beleefe wherof concerneth our soules but euen in lesse matters also for that they discouer a badd mynd wicked conscience whersoeuer they are found wittingly and willingly comitted and yet are not we so rigorous in this point but that we do easily allow vnto Maister Sutcliffe that which in this epistle to Syr Robert he demandeth for himselfe sayinge Do what a man can yet may â—ther marginall notes be misplaced or words stand-disorderly or things be mistaken This I say we easily graunt neither was there euer I thinke any controuersie hitherto betweene vs about misplacinge of marginall notes or disorderly standinge of words so they altered not the true sense of the authors which yet yt hath pleased Maister Sutcliffe disorderly to bring in to the end he might seeme that the accusations laid against him are for such trifles but neither these trifles nor the mistakinge of matters themselues so yt be without fraud are vrged by vs against them but only where wilfull deceyt is euident and where the deceauer cannot morally be thought to haue byn ignorant of his deceyt These I say are the faults which we obiect vnto Maister Sutcliffe and his fellowes and not misplacing of marginall notes or mistandinge of words points or quotaetions nay we may ad a further degree of false dealinge that hath no excuse in the world which is that where the falshood is euideÌ„t and cannot be denyed nor by any probable meanes defended yet not to confesse the same nor to excuse yt by ignorance forgetfullnes trust vpon other men or by any like error but to continue and bolster out the same by other sleights and new frauds this I say is the highest degree of all falshood and impudency vsed as now yow haue seene both by Maister Plessis in his reply after his first confutation and much more by Maister Sutcliffe his aduocate in his broken defence and the like we shall see practised againe by him afterward in this Chapter vpon like occasions of defendinge himselfe and his owne wrytings Concerninge which wrytings he demauÌ„deth in his said epistle to Syr Robert Cecill as also in his preface to the reader a certaine priuiledge from the ciuill law which is that when diuers cases are proposed by one party in law to be admitted or excepted against by the other and that the other excepteth only against some and letteth passe the rest then yt is to be vnderstood saith the law that those which are not excepted against are admitted Which benefitt Maister Sutcliffe would haue allowed to his chalenge that is wheras E. O. hath excepted only against some 26. places of Fathers and Doctors corrupted and falsifyed by him all the rest besides these 26. might be held as free from corruption Yf lawyers say true saith he that exceptions confirme the rule in cases not excepted then hath my aduersary confirmed the mayne discourse against Persons and his adherents hauinge not said any thing vnto yt but only excepted against a few places wherof he taketh 13. to be vntruly alleaged and 13. to be falsifyed And againe in his preface to the reader yf he be not able to except against more places then 26. or ther about yt is cleere that I haue said true in the rest and that I haue argued and alleaged authorityes to good purpose So he And will not heere our iudge laugh againe thinke yow to see this poore man endeauour so diligently to authorize his booke by the accusations of his aduersary and by a priuiledge drawne from the Ciuill law The rule alleaged of exceptions doth hold only where some few cases are proposed to be excepted against by the aduerse party but it holdeth not in a mayne booke where the points are many and almost infinite that are handled and proposed and out of which is lawfull for any accuser to take his accusations where he will without authorizinge or ratifyinge the rest and in our common law of England no man can be ignorant but that yf one should be accused for example for stealinge of 5. sheepe and should acquitte himselfe therof yet this would not barre any other accuser that would afterward call him into tryall for hauing stolen fiftye more Wherfore Maister Sutcliffe can not shroud himselfe by this but that other men also may examine his chalenge besides E. O. as we haue seene that VV. R. hath done and gathered out an infinite huge heape of vntruthes and if I ghesse not amisse not much lesse then a hundred in one Chapter Wherfore seing Sutcliffe is so earnest to prouoke intreate aduersaryes to wryte against him yt is reason he prepare himselfe to answere all commers not to slipp away vnder the shaddow of a Ciuilian rule or priuiledge for so much as he is an Englishman consequently must be tryed by the common law of the land And this may suffice for this first part of his new worke standinge in epistles prefaces except yow would haue a breefe example represented yow heere at this very beginning of the manner of answering and shiftinge which he meaneth to vse afterwards in his whole discourse and therby know the man his talent euen at his first entrance Heare then how he answereth a speach of his aduersary touching the continuance of Catholike Religion My aduersary saith he calleth Popish Religion Catholike affirmeth it was plaÌ„ted heere by Gregory the great c. and that it was alwayes visible since Christ c. but he should do well to shew how true