Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	catholic_a	church_n	doctrine_n	2,797	4	6.6121	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62502	Three treatises concerning the Scotish discipline 1. A fair warning to take heed of the same, by the Right Reverend Dr. Bramhall, Bishop of Derris : 2. A review of Dr. Bramble, late Bishop of London-Derry, his fair warning, &c. by R.B.G. : 3. A second fair warning, in vindication of the first, against the seditious reviewer, by Ri. Watson, chaplain to the Right Honorable the Lord Hopton : to which is prefixed, a letter written by the Reverend Dean of St. Burien, Dr. Creyghton.	R. B. G. A review of Doctor Bramble.; Bramhall, John, 1594-1663. Fair warning to take heed of the Scotish discipline.; Baillie, Robert, 1599-1662.; Watson, Richard, 1612-1685.; Creighton, Robert, 1593-1672.	1661 (1661)	Wing T1122; ESTC R22169	350,569	378

had authoritie to shew for it I have given you as much as that you brought will beare What His Lordship brings here is another discoverie That you did erect them in your Assemblie Acts put them in execution as farre as you durst before any Parliament had pass'd them And Synodicallie established such as no Parliament had passed For this he cites your Acts of several Assemblies which you must either disavow or unriddle what the mistake is you impute Vnlesse you thinke good to save that labour confesse aswel as other your Brethren what is so manifest in your storie The particulars of your proceedings herein Arch-Bishop Bancroft long since collected in his booke of Dangerous Positions Where he shewes how you not onelie acted your selves at home but sent your emissaries into England to see the like practice there in the very face of Episcopal Government What other reasons beside the recalling the Church patrimonie caus'd the refusall of your second booke of Discipline I told you before Which with the rest may suffice to the vindication of what the Bishop premiseth in proofe of the conclusion he makes That the Dissiplinarians by their practies have trampled upon the lawes justled the Civile Magistrate out of his Supremacie in Ecclesiastical affaires His Lordship proceedes to his scrutinie of your doctrine wherein if he yet be more happie as you courteouslie tell us possiblie he will I shall take you to have the spirit of Tirestas having justlie lost your eye-sight for rash judging to be now better at prophesying then reviewing Which immediatelie appeares by your wandring at noonday being at a losse for that which every man may finde in the very place cited by the Bishop None are subject to repaire to this the National Assemblie to vote but Ecclesiastical persons c. This His Lordship conceives to crosse the Kings supremacie which being aswell Ecclesiasticall as civile gives him a power of voting presiding in Assemblies Nor was there ever act of free Parliament in Scotland old or late nor any regular justifiable practice of that Church but reserv'd this power to the King his deputed Commissioner without being chosen member of any Presbyterie or made a ruling elder in a National Assemblie which your booke of Discipline calls the generall Eldership of the Kirke Your hypercriticizing upon his thoughts while the spirit of divination comes upon you makes his Lordship no Super-Erastian in his doctrines Though what transscendent haeresie there is in a moderate answer to the malice in your question any of your aequitable comparers may reade in what Vedelius and Paraeus no herctikes I hope have published to that purpose as the doctrine of all reformed Churches the one quoting Bellarmine the other Stapleton as proper patrons of the Sub-Erastian principles in the Discipline Vedelius in his preface giving the world a caveat of the danger by the mischiefe it had brought upon England Scotland in the yeare 1638. How opposite they were to the Disciplinarian language sense in that particular which the Bishop remonstrates these single propositions can evidence Multo magu est Christiani Magistratus non solùm apprehensivè discretivè sed definitivè de religione judicare Here a definitive vote is asserted to the Magistrate …ad Magistratum pertinet judicium de religione seu rebus fidei causis Ecclesiasticis…tum formaliter tum objectivè Hereby a formal judgement in religion is attributed And this Doctor Rivet who I am told is call'd reverenc'd in the French Dutch Churches as the Calvin of these times hath vouched under his hand to be the Catholike doctrine of the Reformed If he had not we are sure it was the primitive practice of the good Christian Emperours to assume it to whom our conformitie is requisite Of Constantine the great who was personallie present in the Councel of Nice is sometimes called koinonos épiscopoumenon for his communite of suffrage with the Bishops Of the Emperour Theodosius who in the Councel of Constantinople sifted the several Confessions of the Arians Macedonians Eunomians as Brentius relates it cast himselfe upon his knees craving the assistance of Gods spirit to direct him in the choyce of what was most consonant to the doctrine of the Apostles Which epicrisis or completive judgement submitted unto by the Ancient Synods had these authoritative termes to expresse it Bebaioun épipscphizesthai épisphragizesthai cratinein cratioun epikyroun tàpepragmena To the exercise hereof the Discipline of your Reformed Brethren in these Countreyes not onelie admits but craves the presence suffrage of Delegates from the supreme Magistrate without which their Synodical Acts are not establish'd Quin etiam summi Magistratus delegati sunt postulandi ut in ipsorum praesentia eorumque suffragio Synodi Acta concludantur Nor did K. James any more in the Conference at Hampton Court then when in freedome He would have done in any Scotish Presbyterian Assemblie though he hated the name thought of the thing when somewhat was propounded that did not like him put it of with Le Roy Pavisera Rev. Yet the most of the prelatical partie will not maintaine him heerin Ans. Bishop Andrewes will in his Tortura Torti Bishop Field whom your friend Didoclave calls Hierambicorum eruditissimum in his volume of the Church beside many others And possiblie those that seem to be opposite may be reconcil'd if you have the maners to let them state the question among themselves The chiefe case wherein they not you instance of Leontius Bishop of Tripolis in his answer to Constantius the Emperour may be attended with circumstances which may terminate the dispute if not we must not take it on their word that for that as well as his other more regular demeanour he is own'd by Antiquitie to be kánon ecclesias as Suidas records The rule of the Church However it behoves you to cite your lawes to which the Bishops assertion is contrarie And I shall cut you short of that pompous traine which your vanitie holds up in the universal of all the Princes that have lived in Scotland confine you to two the rest being by their Religion unconcern'd in voting though not in permitting any Disciplinarian decrees King Iames the holie martyr King Charles the first who I hope you have not the impudence to say ever made profession so derogatorie to their right In what followes you practise over the fisher-man in the fable from whom you know that unlesse you trouble the water it is in vaine for you to cast in your net if you catch nothing for the Discipline you must sterve The whole paragraph is naught but a malicious seditious inference of your owne whereby you affixe an odious sense to the dutifull attributes of Royal prerogative your owne guilt causing a trembling in your joyuts at the thought of a scepter you buselie creep

they answer That those who made them were theeves murtherers had no power so to alienate the common Good of the Kirk They desire that all such Estates may be anulled and avoided that all Collectours appointed by the King or others may be discharged from intermedling therewith and the Deacons permitted to collect the same yea to that height of madnesse were they come as to define and determin in their Assembly judge whether it be not a modest constitution for a Synod That the next Parliament the Church should be fully restored to its Patrimony and that nothing should be past in Parliament until that was first considered and approved Let all Estates take notice of the●…e pretensions and designs If their project have not yet taken effect it is onely becau●…e they wanted sufficient strength hitherto to accomplish it Lastly by their own Authority under the specious title of Jesus Christ King of kings and Lord of lords the onely Monarch of his Churc●… and under pretence of his Prerogative Royal they erected their own Courts and Presbyteries in the most parts of Scotland long before they were legally approved or received as appeareth by their own Act alledging that many suites had been made to the Magistrate for approbation of the Policy of the Kirk which had not taken that happy effect which good men would crave And by another act acknowledging that Presbytertes were then established Synodically in most parts of the Kingdom And lastly by the Act of another General Assembly at Edenburg ordaining that the Discipline contained in the acts of the General Assembly should be kept as well in Angus and Mernis as in the rest of the Kingdom You see sufficiently in point of practice how the Disciplinarians have trampled upon the Laws and justled the civil Magistrate out of his Supremacy in Ecclesiastical affairs My next task shall be to shew that this proceeds not from Inanimadvertence or Passion but from their Doctrine and Principles First they teach that no persons Magistrates nor others have power to Vote in their Synods but onely Eccl si●…tical Secondly they teach that Ecclesiastical persons have the sole power of convening and convocating such Assemblies All Ecclesiastical assemblies have power to convene lawfully together for treating of things concerning the Kirk They have power to appoint times and places Again National Assemblies of this Countrey ought alwayes to be retained in their own liberties with power to the Kirk to appoint times places Thus they make it a Liberty that is a Priviledge of the Church a part of its Patrimony not onely to convene but to convocate whomsoever whensoever wheresoever Thirdly for point of Power they teach that Synods have the judgement of true false Religion of Doctrine Heresies c. the election admission suspension deprivation of Ministers the determination of all things that pertain to the Discipline of the Church The judgement of Ecclesiastical matters causes beneficiary matrimonial and others Jurisdiction to proceed to excommunication against those that rob the Church of its patrimony They have legislative Power to make rules and constitutions for keeping good order in the Kirk They have power to abrogate and abolish all Statutes and Ordinances concerning Ecclesiastical matters that are found noisom and unprofitable and agree not with the time or are abused by the people And all this without any reclamation or appellation to any J●…dge Civil or Ecclesiastical Fourthly they teach that they have these priviledges not from the Magistrate or People or particular Laws of any other Countrey The Magist●…ate can not execute the censares of the Church nor prescribe any rule how it should be done but Ecclesiastical power floweth immediatly from God from the Mediatour Jesus Christ And yet further The Church cannot be governed by others than those Ministers and Stewards set over it by Christ nor otherwise than by his Laws And therefore there is no power in earth that can challenge to it self a Command or Dominion upon the Church And again It is prohibited by the Law of God and of Christ for tho Christian Magistrate to invade the Government of the Church and consequently to challenge to himself the right of both Swords spiritual and temporal And if any Magistrate do arrogate so much to himself the Church shall have cause to complain and exclaim that the Pope is changed but the Papacy remains So if Kings and Magistrates stand in their way they are Political Popes as well as Bishops are Ecclesiastical Whatsoever these men do is in the Name of our Lord Jesus and by Authority delegated from him alone Lastly they teach that they have all this Power not onely without the Magistrate but against the Magistrate that is although he dissent send out his prohibitions to the contrary Parliamentary ratifications can no way alter Church canons concerning the worship of God For Ecclesiastical Discipline ought to be exercised whether it be ratified by the civil Magistrate or not The want of a civil Sanction to the Church is but like Lucrum cessans non damnum emergens As it addes nothing to it so it takes nothing away from it If there be any clashing of Jurisdictions or defect in this kind they lay the fault at the Magistrates door It is a great sin or wickednesse for the Magistrate to hinder the exercise or execution of Ecclesiastical Discipline Now we have seen the pernicious practices of their Synods with the Doctrines from which they flow it remains to dispel umbrages wherewith they seek to hide the uglinesse of their proceedings principles from the eyes of the world We say they do give the Christian Magistrate a political Power to convocate Synods to preside in Synods to ratifie the Acts of Synods to reform the Church We make him the keeper of both tables Take nothing and hold it fast here are good words but they signifie nothing Trust me whatsoever the Disciplinarians do give to the Magistrate it is alwayes with a saving of their own stakes not giving for his advantage but their own For they teach that this power of the Christian Magistrate is not private and destructive to the power of the Church but cumulative and onely auxiliary or assisting Besides the power which they call abusively authoritative but is indeed ministerial of executing their decrees contributing to their setlement they ascribe to the Magistrate concerning the Acts of Synods that which every private man hath a judgement of discretion but they retain to themselves the judgement of Jurisdiction And if he judge not as they would have him but suspend out of conscience the influence of his political power where they would have him exercise it they will either teach him another point of Popery that is an implicite faith or he may perchance feel the weight of their Church censures and find quickly what manner of men they be as our late gracious King Charls

or idolatrie of Rome That you have made doth but magnisie her and oblige you had you any Christian charitie or justice to thanke God for praeserving so much of his word worship in her service what the Bishop intends when effected will warrant our Church upon your principles in most parts of her L●…turgie when shewed consonant to the most publike sormes of Protestant Churches though 't is hard for Fathers to aske advice or borrow authoritie of their children for Ancients to heare wherein Iob was mistaken That with the yong men is wisdome and with the shortnesse of dayes understanding The King and the many well minded men I beleeve were never deceived by our Doctours who I can not thinke ever affirmed they were as much f●…r preaching in their practice and opinion as the Presbyterians So much as to set aside praying for sermonizing as your 〈◊〉 Booke Discipline doth telling us That what day the publike sermon is they could neither require nor greatlie approve that the Common prayers be publikeli●… used I require the name of any that sayd the life and soul of the Liturgie was preaching without which it could not be intire in its parts That he must never goe in and out of the House of God without ringing his bells a fit alussion the nord of exhortation Interpratation and praeferring the nams given the Temple by some of the ●…ewes Domus expositionis before that by God Domus Orationis Though it may have been the fruitlesse practice of some to quit themselves as they hop'd of the disreputation you brought them as ignorant and lazi●… to preach somewhat more often then formerlie till they found their ringing the bells was to scare the people from Church and doubling their paines reform'd not their opinions nor reduc'd them to their duties They that prayed without booke before and after their sermons came not up to the Presbyterians opinion that it is a childish thing to doe otherwise Nor to their practice To bawlke the first and second service of the Church What they either assirmed or did in this kinde might bemore to shew your gr●…sse ●…ifsimulation at all times in making if such a difficult businesse to talke then to personate their owne in this of their affliction which when you have brought them to the lowest shall never seduce them so to decline the en●…ie of the people as by profaning the House of God sooth them in their e●…rour styling those aivine ordinances which in your maner or frequencie of use being both without praecept are but humane Canons and Acts and for most part in the mater consist of strise s●…ditions and haeresies the workes of the ●…lesh or the Divel that dictates them So that you may see if your eyes be not full of somewhat else while you are sp●…rting yourselves with your owne deceivings their tenet remaines the same that it w●… and themselves readie enough in this season as unfi●… as you thinke it to ring as low'd a●… you will in the eares of the world That for Divine service in publike people need no more but the r●…oding of the Liturgie Which is beter furnish'd with pious petitions occurring to all visible necessiti●…s and for others emergent the Church keepes a reserve and in due time ever affords a recruit then any set or extemporarie prayer that er came out of Presbyters mouth 2. Sermons on weeke dayes if not festivals wheron a commemoration of Saints d●…parted is necessarie for Historical instruction and for imitation exemplarie ma●… belayd aside by Christians that have no more time to spare from their honest callings then they ought to spend in the application and practice of what they heard on the Sunday in meditation upon God his attributes and workes c in the serious examination of their lives and very particular s●…rutinie of their actions secret publike good bad indifferent or mixt in sorting or parselling their sinnes of mission commission weaknesse praesumption and in private repenting weeping praying praysing In conferring closelie with holie men chieflie their Priest and pastour of their soules laying open before him their doubts distractions infirmities perverse inclinations Invisiting the sicke strengthning the weake considering the poore and placing charitie with prudence condoling with and comforting the afflicted Composing controversies reconciling differences designing and enterprising Heroicke exploits for the just advancement and honour of the King and publike advantage of Countrey Citie or Parish whereof they are Members Finallie acting all of which these are not halfe that concernes them in their publike and private capacitie And when all is done not before in what leisure's redundand let them in Gods name call for a weeklie or daylie sermon and where the Priest hath discharg'd as much more of his dutie and findes in himselfe abilities to compose such an one as with confidence or rather conscience he can speake it let them have it 3. That Sundayes afternoon Sermon is well exchanged for catechizing children instructing them in their principles of Religion and acquainting them with the doctrine and discipline of the Church to which they ought to adhaere when they come to their choyce at yeares of discretion which is the custome of some Presbyterian Churches abroad and either hath or should have been tong since of the Scots 1. Book Disc Before noon must the word be preached and Sacraments ministred and afternoon must the yong children be publikelie examined in their Catechisme in the audience of the people 4. That on the Sunday before noon sermon is very convenient abuses being redressed and must be while and where enjoined Yet in Nations converted to Christianitie by the preaching of the Apostles or Apostolical men and so fullie confirmed as no reasonable feare may be of their apostacie since the infallible spirit is not cooperative with all if with any and where as among the Presbyterians the noxious spirit of delusion in the mouthes of very many preachers it 's farre from being necessaire to salvation that care must be had lest it bring damnation to the hearers 5. That where some learned Scholars or honest industrious Ministers not at pleasure but publike appointment on festivals dayes make a sermon or have an oration for litle difference need be about the name and it may be 't were beter to have lesse in the thing it would be short not exceeding an houre according to the Court paterne which is likelie to be the best in the Kingdome and for the most part hath come nearest the most approved example of the primitive Fathers as may be seen by their sermons and homilies that are exstant And it should seem Presbyterie aswell as Episcopacie hath found some inconvenience in Sermons that were longer which produced the 34. Canon in the Provincial Synod at Do●…t 1574. Ministri 〈◊〉 anim●… lo●…gis conci●… quas ultra horam non extendent 6. That spirit and life for adification since

among the heathen such as this in Plutarch cheironeinai monarchias paranomou polemon emphylion and that of Plinie in his Panegyrike Quanto libertate dis●…ordi servientibu●… s●…tilius unum esse cui serviant The other horne of the Bishops dilemma is as sharpe and it need be no sharper then the former The danger whereof makes the Reviewer keep his distance first not daring positavelie to assert the lan fullnesse of taking up armes for religion And then muffling himselfe in his cloake invaine hoping he shall not by this argument de gored unto the quicke His spitting Atheisme in the face of Reason the native image we beare of God will set no wisemē on gaping for extraordinarie revelat ●…s nor his false translating the Bishops sense into mere apprehensions and uncertaine conceptions make him or theirs of his minde worse then Pagan Secptikes in Religion His Lordship I beleeve grants no such postvlate as the Reviewer seemes to looke for That every Scotish Ma●… is a Moses every persecuting Presbyter before Gods ju●…gemen's have humbled him to his conversion a Saint Paul He conceives their Cat●…chisme or Directorie can passe for no Pentateuch nor Ap●…al Epissles and say●…h they beg the qu●… that take it to be the Gosp●… He argues That in asserting the lawfu●…lenes of taking armes they justifie the Ird●…pendents that supplanted themselves whose new light s●…ines as much like that from Moses's face as they Presbyterians new doctrine sounds like the oracles he received in the mount That the Anabaptists in Germanie were no more Enthusiasts then the Anabaptists in Scotland who null the powerfull operation of the sacrament and for ought we know may be nulls in the missionarie power to administer it That Iohn of Leyden his crue could not be more mad then Iohn Knox and his nor could they have lesse reason for their militarie proceedings His Lordship is so farre from placing the summe of Religion in every simple apprehension that he desires the authoritie of the Chuch should take place of his conceptions untill the truth if different from that doctrine which is unlikelie were seald to him by some internal impression of Gods spirit What every man is perswaded in his conscience to be divine truth he would have him praeferre before other mens apprehensions of a contrarie religion Yet if that perswasion be dissonant from what was generallie among the primitive Christians he would not that he should mistake himselfe to have a singular infallibilitie nor a transscendent commission above that of Christ and his Apostles to take armes force all men to his beleefe The most certain truths even these divine ones in religion if His Lordship doth not which I did not aske him I doe thinke to be in many men that praetēd to that supernatural grace called fayth were uncertaine conceptions or inadvertent praesumptions finding few so considerate of their very principles in Religion as to build them upon any so much as that subordinatie moral certanitie they might doe with good endeavour fewer live so devoutlie as without it can reasonablie suppose God miraculouslie infuseth his revelatious to assure them Therefore though all the truths of Christian Religion wherein controverted are reveal'd from heaven Yet I thinke we are to looke a great way backe for the persons by and unto whom immediate inspirations being now adayes very rare nor doe we live much like the holie mortified men that were wont to have them of old You know what Saint Ma●…tin told the Divel when he appear'd arrayed like a King and would be taken for Christ come in triumph upon the earth Ego Christum nisi in eo habitu formaque qua passus est nisi or●… stigmata proforensem venisse non credam He would not beleeue him to be come till he saw him in the habit of his sufferings So when we see you qualified like his disciples wise as Serpents not craftie as foxes harmelesse as doves not rapacious as harpies patient like sheep not ravening like wolves Delivered up to Councels not excommunicating in Synods scourg'd in Synagogues not disciplining without mercie in your Churches Brought before Governers and Kings for Christs sake not bringing Governers and Kings to mooke-tribunals for your owne Then tell us of Divine truths the beleefe of Moses and Saint Pauls revelation from heaven and we will hearken to you as Angels whom now we take to be no beter then the haereti●…es who Vincet sayth are ran●…quaedam cyniphes muscae moriturae such contemptable creatures as croking frogs gnats and dying flies that would buzze what mischiefe you can before you leave us and make the oyntment of the Apothecarie stinke with the corruption of your writings when you are dead The second part of your apologie is most false both thesei kai hypothesei 1. Because subjects have no armes while the Magistrate is in being to hold the sword put into their hands to defend their religion and liberties how legallie soeuer established They have onelie pleas by that law to claime them and petitions of right or aequitie to put up unto the Magistrate to maintaine them 2. If they goe beyond defending themselves in their religion and force others to enter into their league covenant though contrarie to their conscience this is no other then planting of religion by armes And if the difference in any point of religion be such as to state the Magistrate in a condition to be put to death by his subjects as it doth in your sense when he joines in worship with Papists Praelates whom you make idolaters and idolatrie death unpardonable this is cutting the throates of all Magistartes And this is maintained to be just and to have the ground of Gods ordinarie judgement by your Patriarch Knox. And to be imitated of all those that praeferre the true honour of the true worship and glory of God to the affection of flesh and wicked Princes Your hypothesis is false because the religion and liberties of your Covenant in England were never established by law and what was so established was never usurped by Papists Praelates and Malignants And if it had been from so good a King redresse had probablie been procured upon just complaint without taking armes To your third I replie That the Bishop gives no judgement makes no mention of the Protestants Armes in France Holland and Iermanie compares them not with the Anabaptists in Munster or Sectaries in England If you can once perswade them to espouse your quarell for which you have begg'd long enough at their gates by this time or publish a parallel between your taking up armes and their owne the praelatical partie will make no difference between you but give alike judgement against you all In the meane time the maximes they give are rational and divine they are brutes or Atheists divested allreadie of all religion and reason who praeferre them not to the Presbyterian

anomia ergapiria the very shops or Laboratories of rebellion The Church is not dissolv'd where dissipline's not executed if it were it should be where it is at the pleasure of the Magistrate suspended To imagine a final ineapacitie of meeting by perpetual succession of Tyrants hath litle either of reason or conscience it assaults the certitude of fayth in Gods promises advanceth infidelitie in his providence But to give you at length your passe from this paragraph Such as you in a schismatical Assemblie may have frequentlie in Scotland pinn'd the character of erroneous upon an upright Magistrate a Disciplinarian rebell to save his credit call'd a Royal moderate proclamation a tyrdnous edist The Bishops third allegation you finde too heavie therefore let fall halfe of it by the way You have too good a conceit of your Parliaments bountie though had they been as prodigal as you make them it litle becomes you to proclaime them bankrupts by their favour Their Acts were allwayes ratified by your Princes any which whom tell me one wherein this right Royal was renounc'd of suspending seditious Ministers from their office or if cause were depriving them of their places It were a senselesse thing to suppose that the Bishop would denie to the Church a proprietie to consult determine about religion doctrine haeresie c. Yet its likelie His Lordship allowes it not in that mode which makes her power so absolute as to define consummate authorize the whole businesse by her selfe He hath heard the King to be somewhere accounted a mixt person thinkes it may be that the holie oyle of his unction is not onelie to swime on the top be sleeted off at the pleasure of a peevish Disciplinarian Assemblie but to incorporate with their power The lawes of England have not been hitherto so indulgent of libertie to our Convocation but that the King in the cases alledged did ever praedominate by his supremacie And the Parliament hath stood so much upon priviledge that if Religion fetch'd not her billet from West-minster the could have but a cold lodging at St. Pauls The booke of Statutes is no portable manual for us whom your good brethren have sent to wander in the world yet I can helpe you to one An. 1. Eliz. that restor'd the title of supreme to the Queen withall provided that none should have authoritie newlie to judge any thing to be haeresie not formerlie so judged but the High Court of Parliament with the assent of the Clergie in their Convocation Where the Convocations assent by the sound should not be so determinative as the Parliaments judgement which right or wrong here it assumes As touching appeales because you will have somewhat here sayd though it must be otherwhere handled No law of Scotland denies an appeale in things Civile or Ecclesiastike to the King One yet in force enjoines subjection unto them the Act of Parliament in May 1584. which was That any persons either spiritual or Temporal praesuming to decline the judgement of His Majestie His Councel shall incurre the paine of treason What you call a complaint is in our case an appeale what taking order is executing a definitive judgement without traversing backe the businesse to Ecclesiastike Courts or holding over the rod of a coercive power to awe them into due regular proceedings I confesse this the Presbyters in Scotland never made good by their practice Their appeales were still retrograde from the supreme Magistrate his Councel to a faction of Nobles or a seditious partie of the people Such is that of Knox printed at large Or which in effect is the same The Scotish Assemblies when they had no power appeald to providence when they had whereupon they might relie unto the sword In case of Religion or doctrine if the General Assemblie which is not infallible erre in judgement determîne any thing contrarie to the word of God the sense of Catholike Antiquitie the King may by a court of Orthodoxe Delegates consisting of no more then two or three Prelates if he please receive better information of truth establish that in his Church Or which often hapens in Scotland If the Presbyters frame Assemblie Acts derogatorie to the rights of his Crowne prejudicial to the peace of his people the King may personallie justifie his owne praerogative and keep the mischiefe they invented from becoming a praecedent in law This doth not the word of God nor any aequitie prohibite The judgement of causes concerning deprivations of Ministers in the yeare 1584 you would have had come by way of appellation to the General Assemblie there take final end but this you could not make good within yourselves nor doe I finde upon your proponing craving it was then or at any time granted you by the King Two yeares before you adventurd not onelie for your priviledge in that … but against the Magistrates puting preachers to silence…hindering staying or disannulling the censures of the Church in examining any offender Rev. In the Scotes Assemblies no causes are agitated but such as the Parliament hath agreed to be Ecclesiastike c. Ans If any Parliament have agreed all causes of what nature soever to be Ecclesiastike by reduction so of the Church cognizance you have that colour for your pragmatical Assemblies but if you admit of any exception you have for certaine transgressed yourlimits there being no crime nor praetended irregularitie whatsoever that stood in view or came to the knowledge of the world that hath escaped your discussion censure not been serv'd up in your supplicates to be punished Rev. … No processe about any Church rent was ever cognosced upon in Scotland but in a Civile Court Ans. Your imperious though supplicatorie prohibition 1576. I allreadie mention'd In the Assemblie at Edenburgh April 24. 1576. You concluded…That you might proceed against unjust possessours of the patrimonie of the Church…by doctrine admonition last of all if no remedie be with the censures of the Church In that at Montrosse June 24. 1595. About setting Benefices with diminution of the rental c. you appointed Commissioners with power to take oaths call an-inquest of men of best knowledge in the Countrey about to proceed against the Ministrie with sentence of deposition Master Tho. Craig the Solicitour for the Church to pursue the Pensiionars in Caitnes for reduction of their pensions If in no particular you actuallie proceeded to Church censures It was because you foresaw they would not restraine the corruption no more of the laitie then the Clergie then your menasing petitions sometime obtein'd strength from some partial or pusillanimous Parliament or when you praevail'd not you wrapt this up with the rest of your discipline put all to the processe of a warre And this was you know the mysterious sense of Knox's method upon good experience praescrib'd on his death bed First