there to ye may But as to vs as we beleef in the symbol that there is one God omnipotente Fatâ—er Sonne holie Ghost wâ—o hath created redeemed sanctified vs by his infinite goodnes mercy so do we beleef that there is one holie Catholik kirk by whose mouth we ar instructed in all theis thinges that we should beleef or do because shee is the spouse and mysticall body of Iesus Christ of whome as of hir head shee hath grace and power and we command to obey Theis at the generall heades of that which ye call papistrie seing it pleased you so to terme it where vpon ar biulded all particuler heades professed by the same kirk and all hiâ— children remaning in due obedience within hiâ— bosome To detest and abhorre theis thinges ye may easely iudge your selues if passioÌ„ commaÌ„d not aboue your â—ittes how hard a thing it wilâ— be to â—any Christian man wâ—o hath Christs spouse in good estimation and as it becometh him to haue hiâ— who is guided with so nobell a head But ye will say that ye condemne not that which is good but our errours I answeare to you in one word so farre as I can see ye haue as litell iudgement to discerne vpon an errour as ye haue power to condemne it But this doth require a more ample discours Moreouer to haue the Catholik religion in greater horrour and detestation then te Iewdaisme Turcisme heresie or at heisme I can not think that it cometh of a good and holie spirite but rather of him who vnder the figure shape of a black dogge gaue a purse with siluer to the forger of your confession But I vnderstand well how the matter standed he who hath fled a way for knauerie had rather serue any man then retorne back to his owne maister It is not my intent at this present to refuâ—e your negations of the faith ye will gif occasions as ye haue giuen matter to answear by the groundes of your owne doctrine and maximes of your chief ministers which I graunt ye may deny as ye haue donne many better thinges by reason of your Christian libertie where by ye may â—udge and condemne whome and what ye please if it agree not with the scriptures interpreted by you that is with your opinion where to ar subiect all thinges by vertue of the spirite which guideth you as supreme iudges without appealle for otherwise thinges can not stand with your credit ye hold as the chief foundament of your detestations and refusals that the Pape is the Antichrist which point no man of iudgement can passe with meikilles to subscribe or sweare it to be true Sundry cunning and learned men hath most sufficiently confuted this blasphemous reuerie so I may be excused if I enter no further in the matter yet for other mens contentement who haue not seene or could not vnderstand these bookes I will bring here some reasons why that can not be And first the Pape acknowledgeth not onely God to be aboue him to whome all honour and glorie iustly doeth apperteine because he is maker and authour of all thinges but also he acknowledgeth the Angels and Sainctes although in different degree maner God for his owen causes and them for Goddes cause who ar in heauen and for that cause prayetâ— to them as being Gods in time and most deare friends to interced for him where as the Antichrist if ye will gif credit to Sainct Paul shall prefer him self to all thing that is called God where no exception is made Secondly we reade of no Pape who hath slaine either Elias or Enoâ—h or any other excellent men indued with supernaturall giftes principallie at Ierusalem seing there hath beene there no Pape thes many hondred yeares Further the Papes successiuely haue raigned thâ—s sâ—xteine hondred yeares not witstanding of the great varietie and trouble of the â—yme The Anâ—ichrist should reigne onely three yeares and an half Moreouer there was never yet any Pape receaued by â—he Iewes for their true Mâ—ssias because the Pape doeth teach that the true Messias is alreddie come the Antichrist should be receaued Si alius venertt in nomine suo â—um recipietis of contrarie there is no man they hate so meikill as they hate the Pape because he is the greatest obstacle thes 1600. yeares ye being yet in lumbis inâ—isibilis Ecclesiae The EuaÌ„gell should be receaued through all before the Antichrist come The Euangell is not yet receaued through all and if the Pape be not yet come why preach ye against him The Pape with all diligence and â—aâ—e hath keaped and yet do keape Iuge saecrificâ—um the perpetuall sacrifice which onely is accepâ—able and pleasant to God therefore the Antichrist will labour to tak it away where in ye trauell as ye can The pape mainteineth the religion of his forfathers for he condâ—mneth all thing as errour that is contrarie to the doctrine of the primitiue kirk and venerable anâ—iquitie because Iesus Christ being the veriâ—ie it self the religion founded vpon him and published by his deare spouse at his command can neither be variable nor false the Antichrist shall mispryce the religioÌ„ of his fathers wherein ye imitat him perfectly well The pape sitteth at Rome and hath so donne thes many ages The Antichrist should sit at Ierusalem The Pape adoreth with all humilitie and reuerence the Trinitie teacheth and commandeth all true Christians to doo the same The Antichrist openeth his mouth with all sorte of blasphemie against the holie Trinitiâ— The Pape â—alleth him self Seruuâ— seruorum Dei acknowledging that the honour he receaueth of men is because of his office that he hath of God and that he is institute Pastour here in earth to serue the wholl flock of Iesus Christ out lord whose seruant he is and chief minister And therefor before all mortall men in dignitie seing he representeth Christ our soueraigne Lord yet subiect to serue all men helpe and assist them because of his office and charge certainely the lest of the realme is to be prefered to the greatest how loÌ„g he represented the Kinges Maiesties personne The Anticâ—rist shall call him self God There hath beene two hundred and thirtie Papes and more there should be but one Antichrist contrarie to Christ in all thinges for we speak here of the great Antichrist The religion professed by the Pape hath dured with your owm prophetes confessions more theÌ„ twalf hundred yearâ—s the religioÌ„ or rather impietie of the Antichrist should dure short space as he him selfe The Antichrist should be an Apostate go out of the kirk of God where by that his wickednes may be the greater being ioyned with rebellioÌ„ The Pape remaineth yet still in the house of God There hath beene great number of heresies heretikes during theis 1600. yeares that we haue hade so many Papes But the Antichrist should be the last of the heretiks because all wickednesse should be compleit in him all heretiks seruing to him
A LERNED EPISTLE OF M. IOHN FRASER BACHLER OF DIVINITIE TO THE MINISTERS OF GREAT BRITANIE Wherin he sheweth that no man ought to subscribe to their confession of faith And that their presumed authorite to excommunicate anie man especially Catholiques is vaine and foolish Permissu Superiorum 1605. TO THE â—VRITAINE MINISTERS OF GREAT BRITANIE HIS COVNTREYMEN Iohn Fraser vvisheth vpright mynd tovvarde bothe God and Prince HEARING of your extraordinarie dealing according to the nature of your extraordinarie calling in outward shew onely gainst Catholique men In very deed against o the God Prince I thought it my duetie or the publike good to write some thing ouching that subiect where by ye might nderstand how ye deceaue your selues and buse others in that mater which is this â—e labour by al meanes to constraine men â—ho at Catholique for as to others men ye â— not very careful to approue sweare and â—bscribe your confession of faith and in case they refuse ye take vpon you to excoÌ„municat them Wherefore with Godds grace we shal latt you see that no honest man true subiect or good Christian with safe conscience can approue sweare or subscribe your forsaid confession that ye haue no power at al to excoÌ„municat any man and although ye had yet could ye not excommunicat Catholique men 2. As a plaine dealer without further preface I wil enter in the matter TheÌ„ to the first head it is certaine that whosoeuer wil sweare and subscribe your new confession contrarie to the duetie of an honest man putteth him self in hazard to be mensworne and that in the very entrie of his othe for thir be your words if I rightly remember vve al and euerie one of vs vnder vvritten protest that after long and devv examination of our ovvne consciences in maters of true and false religion ar novv throughly resolued in the trueth by the vvord and spirit of God Many faltes in fewe wordes if men would long tyme and duely examine them in their consciences before they approue subscribe or sweare them to be true for first euery man here answereth for his companion fellow saying vve al euerie one of vs c. where if any of the noÌ„ber hath spoken against the veritie or his conscience al the rest ar lyers Nixt what examination can be long in so weghtie a matter certainely not fourtie dayes yea not fourtie yeares When these thinges cometh in controuersie we may wel say without reprehension Deliberandum est diu quod statuendum est semel Thirdly how can any man duely examine his conscience in matters of true and false religion seing that his conscience or iudgement can not be a iust square of religion because it surmounteth al humaine reason is comprehended onely by faith not of our owne forgeing but of Goddes free gift or how can he duely iudge vpon true and false religion who neuer hath seene heard or reade the reasons of al parties For as a teÌ„poral iudge not without great reason may be thought to iudge very rashly if he pronunce his sentence decreit before he heare bothe the parties not withstaÌ„ding the matter be of smal importance and value and that he haue iudged according to the right because he hath iudged before he knew the ground of the matter and so if he hath done wel it was more by happe then good reason So the spiritual iudge may be esteemed rash and foolish if in matters of religion and faith he decreit any thing except al reasons be wel discussed Wherefor he who would duely examine his conscience in maters of trâ—w and falsâ— religioÌ„ seing he takeâ—h vpoÌ„ him the charge place of a iudge should with great discretioÌ„ quyet spirit humble mynd without any passioÌ„ trye both the true false read al books touching that subiect weighing the reason diligently because the profit is great to them that goeth right and the danger likewise to them who goeth wronge Now how the greater part of your sweares and subscribers can do or execute this charge truely I see not yea can not gesse seing that a good nomber of your selues who ar ministers and should be best armed at destitute bothe of bookes and good learning Certainly ye can not iustly aske of gentilmen or others of meaner degree making profession of armes or housbandry that which ye your selues who do make profession of letters can not do ye may easely iudge that gentilmen and commone people for lacke bothe of learning and bookes can not duely and for lacke of tyme can not long and vvorthly examine their conscience in sic things their affaires ay holâ—ing them occupied otherwise meikilles to sweare that they haue done that which neither haue they done nor could they do at any tyme. Albeit there were no othere reason but this yetafter my iudgement it were most iust sufficient for any man to refuse your subcription and swearing and should moue you not to vrge men there to except perhapes ye seeke only their vtter ruine and damnation for doubtles they ar mensworne who sweareth that to be true which in their coÌ„science they knowe to be false or ar not assured if it be true of which nature ar theis thinges which ar conteined in your confession seing they proceede of men who ar subiect to errour and false opinion and so can gif no good assurance where vpon men may establish their faith Which cannot be certaine and firme except it haue an infallible ground and fondament free frome all suspicioÌ„ of errour I may with many weightie reasons proue that honestie could not stand with sic maners and shall bring them if it be needfull 3 For the feconde head it is â—ar against the duetie of a true subiect towardes his Prince and liege lord to whom he is obliged from the first moment of his birth to his last breath wherefor can not gif his band of maÌ„red noâ— othe of fidelitie to any other but with exceptioÌ„ of his soueraigne which notwithstanding ye desire of your subscribers for speaking of the worde of God for so ye call your interpretations and doctrine of your reformed kirk ye say thus to the vvhich vve ioyne ourselues vvillingly in doctrine faith religion discipline and vse of th holie sacraments as liuely meÌ„bers of the same in Christ our head promising and svvearing by the Great name of the Lord that vve shall continue in the obedience of the doctrine and discipline of this kirk and shall defend the same according to our vocation and povver all the dayes of our liues vnder the paines conteined in the lavve and danger bothe of body and soule in the day of Goddes fearfull iudgement There be here an absolute othe and without any exception made to you and your reformed kirk not onely in matters of religion and doctrine but also in gouerment and discipline It is not my intent at this present to examine the manyfold absurdities of this new forme of othe in passing I
incoÌ„tineÌ„t put to the horne their goods confiscated them selues banished out of the countrey what rank or qualitie that euer they be of they ar not worthie to be faluted by the worst rascal fellow of your sessions although they be composed ordinairely of the very sinke of the people But honest men must take patience seing ye gif so litill reuerence to them to wâ—ome ye ar more obliged 6. where I will noâ—e a thing very remarcable that neither riches good traictâ—ment dignities nor honours can mak you quyet and peaceable men neither iniuries indignities banishment losse of goods nor freinds can moue the Catholiks to leaue their duetie towards the Prince which I doubt not but his Maiestie some day will consider when it shall please God to haue pitie of our miseâ—ies Abyding which tyme I pray you all good and Godly Catholiks sâ—sfer me good sites to turne my speeche a litill to them to behaue your selues towards his Maiestie with due obedience and modestie seâ—king no preâ—â—xt noâ— excuse to withdraw your selues suffering paciently persecutions if any be Mixe no worldly respectes with heauenly blâ—slinges God is highly offended when we makâ— to our particulare passions a cloake of his name his honour and our affaires ar not of lyk rank they should not be mingled together If any harme cometh to you in his seruice your reward wil be thâ— greater soing ye haue â—râ—uailled for his glorie and haue stand stoutly to his ryght vnder whose banner to die is to triomphe for euer feare no damnage not losse ye haue a most sure promise of a honderdfold profit the lyfe eternall we should bestow our goodes wâ—llingly in his seruice who rccompenseth so liberally The lesse of our priuat affections we midle here in the better is outs the more ample shal be our lords goodnes towards vs because his glorie the more cleerly doeth shine when it is allone But when his veritie is blamed for our misbehauiour what can we look for at his hands but for a iust punition for abusing his authoritie and name It were very hard to suffer sundry thinges that occurre in thes spirituall watâ—es if our captaine were not inuincible and we assured how long we stand with him We lack no good examples bothe of head and membres We can not be first in this bataiâ—l where so many thowsands lossing the earth haue conquised the heauens there ar passed before vs infinite nomber of champions off all dignities ages and qualities Kinges Quyenes nobles meane men learned and ignorant men wemen ould men and babes poore and riche who haue borne armour vnder this standart after the losse of all worldly goods haue shead their bloode with ioy to their eternall blesse because they had only Goddes glorie before their eyes which principally in this tyme so dangerous we should do that our vice be not obiected to the Catholik religion as if our faulâ—es came of that which we professe and not of ouâ— selues to which sorte of calumnies and craftie accusations our aduersaries haue ost recourse taking argumeÌ„ts from ouâ— liues and behauiour which they can not haue frome our religion We should not mixe the religion with matters of state they apperteine to diuerse magistrates God will haue vs here obedient to bothe because they aâ— his lieutenants established in his name and authoritie we should not serue our selues with the command of the one to disobey the other in his charge Who so euer hender any of the two can not serue him sâ—lfe with excuse of the other we must follow bothe their commands according to their place rank they at ordained by God to keepe one another and not to distroy each other If standing to the true saith to the defence of our soueraigne we be persecuted either in lyf body or goods after the bataill we shal be restored to ouâ— owne or to meikill better he who receaueth a prophete in name of a prophete shall receaue the reward of a prophete yea he who giueth a cuppe of cold water in the name of a Disciple shall not loose his reward what shall he receaue I pray you who willinglie wâ—en occasion seâ—ueth gifeth his lyf to God in Gods name to declaire his veritie or mainteine his iustice in defence of religion or his Prince so highly recommended to vs by God him selfe lat vs not infect this gift oblation with our priuat plottes and passions he who heard Sainct Paul in his weaknes will graunt vs strenght to susteine all aduersities he will say to vs also sufficiat vobis gratia mea the more we loosse here the more we shall winne in heauen Seing this patience sure I am that the Kinges Maiestie will not be so farre offendâ—d when he shall vnderstand that thereis onely conscience that do stoppe you to condescend to many thinges and no rebellion nor contempt of his lawes or ordainances for in that case ye prefer onely God to him and that because your fiâ—st obligation moueth you thereto Byding in this resolution the victorie shal be yours and ye shall obteine if not mans at lest Goddes fauour otherwise ye may look to loosse bothe surther we may hope that his Maiestie being better informed of the matter wil be more graâ—ious to his true and humble subiâ—cts then to punish them by death banishment or priuation of their goods in fauour of the ministers who byding at the groundâ—s of their doctrine can neither be good Christians nor true subiects as we haue shaâ—â— alreddie and shall shâ—w more euidenâ—ly here after if this be not thought sufficient Yet if our sinnâ—s be so great that God will haue vs punisâ—ed with all tigour and extremitie in this present lyf lat vs receaue the same not onely with patience because we haue deserued meikill more but also with gladnesse and thankes giuing as comming oâ— his hand who will gif vs the strenght to beare it seing that his quartell is mixed with our paines lat vs crye for his helpe and succoâ—re who hath the heartes of Princes in his hand that he may dispense their actions to his glorie to their and our saluation and publik peace and quietnesse how that shal be donne we must leaue it to his infinitie wisdome and prouidence hauing alwaies in our heartes and mouthes thy will be donne in earth as it is in heauen Now to retourne to you againe good sites it is not onely very dangerouse but also farre against the duetie of a good Christian man to sweare according to your desyre os reither command and force to witt that they abhorre and detest all contrarioâ—â— religion and doctrine to your reformation but cheiflie all kynd of papistrie in generall and particulere heades Because the most chief heads of the Catholik Apostolik and Romane doctrine wâ—ich ye of your great humanitie and courtesie doe call papistrie at all occasions and propos aâ— conteined in the symbol of faith mâ—de by the Apostles if ye haue any thing to say
as foreriders where of Simon Magus was the first a detestable magicien and a traiterous apostate who not withstanding hath found ouer many coÌ„panions to follow him Iesus Christ should slay the Antichrist with the spirite of his mouth that is as ye interprete it with the preaching of the Euangell that hath he never donne to any Pape albeit ye haue imaginated to your selfs that ye haue slaine the Pape by your preachinges oâ— rather taillinges the Pape never hath had one houres sicknes for all your crying assure your selues that his infirmities cometh of other causes Luther in spirite of prophicie as he thought made this most notable verse Pestis eram viuus moriens tuâ— mors ero Papa he knew very well the first part to be true and therefore myght say it confidently the last part was lyk the authour false and vntrue he being deade and his doctrine bothe it being changed partly by him self during his lyf partly by his disciples and followers after his deathe where as the Papes Authoritie because it is founded vpon God doth remaine shall remaine till the worlds end The Antichrist should oppose him self to our lord in all thinges and abolish his name and honour so farre as he can for so the name of Antichrist doth signifie The Pape doeth the plaine contrarie The Antichrist should come after Gog Magog howbeit that the Papes hath beene so many ages yet know we not what Gog and Magog ar nor what place of the world they dwell in The Pape honoreth the Sainctes as Gods vndoubted friends and desyreth them to pray for him Where vpon maliciously ye preach to the people that we gif Christs honour to the Saincts yet we acknowledge them as seruants onely who hath credit to pray and not to command The Antichrist should haue in his name the number of 666. to find this number your brethren further different frome you in doctrine and discipline then in place or habites haue taken great paines tourning the Papes names but all in vaine it could not be found the holie spirite hauing so prouided against your calumnies Many thousands ar saued in the Catholik kirk which ye call the papist kirk for otherwise all your forfathers ar condemned yea all the ancient fathers martyres and doctours of the kirk seing that they haue acknowledged the pape for their superior and chief vicare to Iesus Christ and a great part of you were baptised by the membres of the Antichrist in whose kirk no man can be saued The Pape armeth him self al men so far as he can for Iesus Christ with reasons scriptures generall counceilles authorities of fathers exeÌ„ples of martyres consentement of the wholl Catholik kirk of all ages The Antichrist shall arme him selfe and his followers with force and violence against Iesus Christ The Pape conserueth and haue conserued at all tymes the scriptures The Antichrist if he do according to his name and profession should destroy the scriptures The Pape hateth and condemneth all sort of rebellions and nouelties in religion The Antichrist should embrace them as most proper conuenient instruments for his auancement of perdition The Pape came so quietly and peaceablye yea according to your owen â—ellowes saying that ye can not yet goodly-tell when or how he first entred in the kirk ye ar so troubled to tell well your new forged fable The Antichrist should come with sic trouble and mischief as neuer was since the beginning of the world where in he shal be more lyk to you then to the Pape seing we can well tell when ye came and may yet shew ouer euident markes of your vnquiet intré And to be short the Antichrist should be filius perditioniâ— the sonne of perdition chief instrument of satan that is so possessed and assisted with the deuill that he shall do all thinges in the deuils power and for his cause and shal be so perfect and accomplished if I should so say in all vice and iniquitie that no man can equall him meikilles to surpasse him and principallie in pryde as our maister and lord Iesus Christ did excell in all vertue chiefly in humilitie discite à me quia mitis sum huâ—â—lis corde Wherefor not without reason sundry learned men haue repported the seuen montains to the seuen deedly sinnes which shal be in the Antechrist in most high degree that he may iustly answeare to his name The Pape can no wayes be thought so wicked I call to witnes all sort of Protestantes of what so euer nation saction or opinion who haue beene at Rome before or since the Iubile and haue seene the Pape who now sitteth Clement the eight a man worthie of that name if any of them may say in his conscience that he is so wicked and desperate a maÌ„ as the Antichrist is described to be in the scriptures Sure I am that there is none of them so far drounkeÌ„ in the ministeriall humour that will say so if he speak according to that he hath seene It is so far from that the Pape can be the Antichrist that his most excellente Maiestie a Prince of rare iudgement and learning doth acknowledge the Pape to be a temporall Prince to whom he is obliged and to whome in all good offices he wil be correspondent â—hat wordes may be said to your opinion who maketh our Kinge to haue obligation from and commerce with the Antichrist I may say with your pardon and licence sessionall that he is a better more honest man then any ministers that either is or euer was in Scotland without exception of your chief pontifs first or last Iohn or Robert I am assured that he who knoweth the Pape anâ— your ministers will say the same principally if it were question of humilitie and humanitie and if I be put to my proues I hope easely to discharge my selfe litill to youâ— honours If this be true as it is most certaine why should any man sweare the Pape to be the Antichrist that is the most wicked and detestable man that euer was is or shal be seing that there is none of your companie how godly brethren that euer ye be but iâ— meikill worse then he or if they sweare a thing so farre out of all reason and veritâ—e as thinking it true why should they follow or acknowledge you for true and lawfull pastours sent by God to reforme the world if ye be worse then the Antichrist who must be the most detestable and abominable instrument that euer Satan hath employed If ye say that it is but simulation and hypocrisie in the Pâ—pe to deceaue men I answeare you that if we graunt your foolish affirmation ye must also graunt to vs that the deuill hath donne more good with the Pape his hypocrisie preteÌ„ded or fained holinesse then euer the holie spiâ—ite which is in you I say could do by â—ou and your pietie and reformed Godlinesse your actions may beare witnes if I lie O Sanctas gentes
gifin to Caluin and you farre different from the commission gifin to Luther and his â—ollowers for the Lutherians according to this saying hade only charge to beginne the matter and ye to end it but beginning and ending should agree to gether and not like aegri somnia or worse They should agree I say if they be of one spirite except they come of that spirite who neuer yet could agree with him selfe The holie spirite who is the spâ—â—ite of vnion and concorde could not haue condemned by your mouth which he hath approued by Luthers or Lutherians mouthes I doubt not but ye trust al that ye haue the holie spirite yet the diuersitie of your opinions assure me the contrarie seing that the spirit who approueth and authoriseth the one and his doctrine condemneth and dischargeth the others and their doctrin If ye say that the errours hade takin so deepe roote that it was not possible to take them out of mens hartes in short space and therefore we should not maruell if there be many â—hingis in Luthers doctrine not agreable with the veritie But I pray you hade it not beene more seemely and as easie to Luther if he was sent by God whose asistence he could not want in that case to haue told the veritie at the beginning as to haue preached new errours so detestable as ye say and so contrarie to Godds worde and our saluation what spirite moued him so to doe If he â—ad winked at some or many of these poinctes that ye call errours which he found in the kirk before him because of the inueterate opinion coÌ„fiâ—med by long vse there might be some apparent excuse in your answere but to bring in errour for errour or to put out one to take in two the people being so docill to â—eceaue what so euer impression at that tyme Luther wold or cold haue giuen them or to confirme obstinatly an ancient errour is no worke of the holie spirite who should haue guided your extraordinatâ—e prophete and new sent pastour Or was the holie spiâ—ite so weake in Luthers mouth that he could not teach him the veritie or Luther so hard harted â—hat he could not receaue nor conceaue the veritie mekilles teach it to others or hade the holie spirite since that tyme found Caluin a more proper instrument to instruct the world truely and plainely in all thinges Then why was he a lying spirite in Luthers mouth seing it was oâ— him ye haue your extraordinarie calling which now is so ordinairie and established that no man may preach without it 10. I see not what can be answered here or shal we tourne baâ—ke againe to the first foundament of Luthers extraordinarie vocation where of the marke was the true doctrine which ye ar constrained to denye and disauow if ye wold proue your owen good for he condemneth you and your doctrine and ye condemne him and his doctrine which if ye denye obruam vos aduersarum vesâ—rarum partium voluminibus scriptisque contrarijs what shal become here of your vocatioÌ„ for lack of true doctrine it wil be null either in him or you or if ye say bothe true in your mutuall accusation in you both what shal become of your ministerie if this false thunder be shaken out of your hands ye will haue hard escapping out of this snare wherein ye haue feltred your selues fleing frome the Catholik kirk For if ye say that it is ynough that ye agree in the groundes and foundaments of faith and religion which ar necessarie altogether for mans saluation and in these ye agree with Luther and Lutherians they with you I wolde gladly vnderstand what ar these groundes and foundaments of faith and religion necessarie for mans saluation Is it to beleeue that there is but one God Iesus Christ to be God Gods Sonne That our saluation coÌ„sisted in Godes mercy other sic thinges as sayeth Caluin Or in the Creed Lordes prayer ten commands as thinketh Beza Or shal they be in the inuocatioÌ„ of our lord Iesus Christ as teacheth du Plessis Or shal these foundaments be the negation and detestation of the Catholik doctrine or as ye call it papistrie according to your meÌ„swearing of the true faiâ—h If ye wil hold you at your owen grouÌ„d I say onely that a negatiue faith is no faith properly and so your negations wil neuer open the heauens to you except that ye think that the Iewes gentils Turkes and heretikes oâ— all sects and at heiâ—ts may haue place as well there as ye seing they can deny heads of religion professed by the Catholiks with noth lesse assurance then ye a great part of the same with you If ye will say any of theâ—s thinges which the others hade said I ask you wherefore came Luther seing theis thinges as ye can not denieâ— were beleeued in the Catholik kirk before that euer Luther blew the trompette of sedition or as ye wold call it reformation if that honour had not beene reserued to you if the puritie of theis pointes was requesit why came Luther seing he teacheth not that puritie For that was reserued to you onely as we haue said often tymes It were out of purpos to say that God hade sent him to bring in new errours and confirme ould vnder pâ—etext of some few that he hath taken away where by an other might be sent Was it needfull that your Caluin should as an other Sainct Iohn the Baptist Parare viam Domini In the meane tyme I will conclude if there was so many errouâ—s in Luthers doctrine that it was needfull to send another in his place to teach the trueth that his extraordinarie vocation was not good or els yours who at come vpon a false token to gif him the lie But Domini moderatores why shall we beleeue Luther in some heads of religion as hauing commission of God and not in others because ye say it According to your Euâ—ngell ye at all equall not one greater theÌ„ an other why shall we gif you more credit then him or if we refuse to credit Luther why shall we not reâ—use to credit you also that ye may remaine euer Pares or why shall we beleeue your when ye improue some thinges and approue others is it not needfull here to haue a new extraordinarie calling to iudge with discretion and to our saluation and if in any thing ye be gone wrong should there not be another extraordinarie prophete to correct you as ye haue corrected others And seing that the true kirk according to your reformed opinion may erre when shâ—ll we haue lawfull pastours ye put the true doctrine the certaine mark of lawfull calling yet it can not be hade because euery man bringeth errour with him and the kirk is vncertaine and subiect to errour and so we can not trust hir And certainely as to Luther I credit you when ye accuse him of false doctrine and his followers because he
and not granting that ye hade good Calling and were lawfull true Pastours hauing power to bind and loose I ask what iurisdiction ye can haue vpon them who neuer were subiect to you neuer acknowledged nor could acknowledge you for lawfull pastours hauing at altymes made profession of the Catholik religion which is so far different yea contrarie to that which ye professe and desyres them to embrace how can ye vrge theis men to acknowledge you or how can ye excommunicat and separate them frome you as rotten and spilt members frome the rest of your reformed body they neuer being of your body Feare ye not that men laught at you and your folie to dispose so rashely vpon thinges neuer yours except perchance by a reformed imagination or dreame Kinges and Princes vses not to banish out of their dominions other princes subiects who neuer were within their boundes True it is that they may forbid any stranger to enter within their empires and that for good and iust reasons yea for their only pleasure if they will so because the lands ar theirs and so may receaue or hold out any man as they list or punish sic as wold without their licence enter there in But to banish men that never were within their realmes were a thing very ridiculouse that I say not foolish And to constraine free men or other Princes subiects to gif them the othe of fidelitie and duâ— seruice were altogether against reason principally neuer being with in their iurisdiction Lykwise I say to you that ye can not iustly force thes men now to acknowledge you who neuer were yours ye may in deed forbid them to enter in to your kirk or to assisâ— to your seruice if ye haue any or to your prayers or to take any charge amongst you seing that they â—r not of youâ— stoâ—â— but how ye can passe any further against them truely I see not except ye wold say that your power hath no other marches then your will and fantasie An ample empyre truely if it be so Ye will haue the exâ—resse word of God for all thingâ—s that other â—en say I pray you bring vs here some good â—nd euidâ—nâ—â—eâ—â— of the scripture which may serue you for bound charter of your bordorsâ— cite vs some sure place by whose authoritie ye may proue that it is lawfull to banish men out of your kirk who neuer were in it Think ye not but this meriteth two or three passages of the holie writt befor ye passe to the execution there of The Iewâ—s did esteeme the GeÌ„tils in rank of excommunicated men bnt neuer did excommunicat them that is did hold them as profane men destitute of the grace and assistance of God and out of his kirk seing that they professed not that same religion which onely at that tâ—me was the true religion But neuer did they curt them of their body as rotten members thereof because they were not of their body but reither a body a part distinguished frome them bothe in religioâ— and ceremonies which onely the Iâ—wes did declare and could do no further Câ—ptaines vses not to discharge or bâ—ack out of their â—ands souldiours who neuer were vnder their banners Christ Iesus neuer gaue â—o any sic exeÌ„ple or command nor yet the Apostles yâ—â— none of their successours after them Whereâ— find ye the Ieweâ— or gentils excommunicated by the Apostles or primiâ—iue â—irk I find â—ruell porsâ—â—utioÌ„s exercised agâ—â—nst the Christians and their great patience with 〈◊〉 and â—eruent prayer made for their persecutors I find not their execrations and curseâ— against them â—e sâ—e the Iewes yet amongâ— the Christians and vnconstrained to embrace the veritie oâ— yeâ— excommunicated except by that generall excoÌ„munication where by they ar all declared strangers in Goddes house and profane personnes with whome notwithstanding we may hâ—â— nâ—â—peek trafik and communicat â—iuille although that our kirk doores and prayer places be closed vp to them They may haue action in law against any man who hath either offended them or is owing them any thing Iustice is not refused to them because they ar meâ— remaining with in the same commoÌ„ wealth Now seing theâ—s branches were neuer yourâ— How can ye 〈◊〉 them of your tree Kâ—mi suâ— alteriâ—â— arborâ—s If ye could do that ye might hardely vaâ—â—t your selues to haue donne a miracle which hath beene so often craued at your hands for your extraordinaire vocation 15. But ye will say thaâ— they ar in your Pariâ—hes and therefore ye haue power vpon them as vpon the rest who ar within the same iurisdiction I vnderstand well ye ar â—ands loâ—deâ— all is yours that gâ—oweâ— vpon â—he groâ—â—d But good â—â—â—es ye should first shew that the ground is yours and then dispose there vpon at your pleasour we shall neuer opâ—n our mouthes to gainesay you The iurisdiction that ye pretend is spirituall hitherto they haue neuer entred wiâ—h in your dominious Why will ye now force them to land because they ar driuen by storme of wind vpon your costes They ar â—orie that your limites ar so neer to them The onely sight of your realme hath disgusted them exceedingly suffer them to stay where they ar and they will enter no further They content them with your good will The Turkes constraine no man to embrace their opinion except he enter with in their temple any man may be within the countrey without any compulsion ye require more then the most cruell tyrannes If ye will credit them it shall not be needfull to banish them out of your territorie They desyre not to enter They haue chosen another free citie where they like better to be burgessis which they will lose if they enter with you Vlysses was neuer more desyrous to be deliuered out of Polyphemuâ— cauerne or danger of Siâ—enes or Charibdis then they to be exempt of your communion It is but in vaine ye excommunicat them who neuer haue nor yet desyre to communicat with you Ye do as they tell the â—able of the foxe and plummes which he could not come by nigra sunâ—â—olo they ar black sayeth he I will haue none of them ye ar very liberall ye gif to others which neither is yours nor can ye haue what extraordinarie reformed charitie is this in you to deliuer ouer to Satan Goddes creatures not being in your charge nor keeping meikill lesse at your gift But good sires why taâ— ye not the paines to shew that ye haue the true kirk out of which there is no saluâ—tion and that ye ar lawfull pastours to whome all true ChristiaÌ„s ar obliged to obey as to Christs vicâ—iâ—es and lieutenants This were the ordinarie and easie way if ye wold follow it for this being once sufficiently â—hewen I doubt not but they wold shew them selues very docil and very easie to receaue all your instructions because of your vndoubted authoritie and charge Ye might then very well exhorte them to enter witbin your spirituall iurisdiction seing ye hade the