doe in vaine goe about from this place to establish their Sacrilegious Tyranny by giving Lawes without the word and beside the word to bind Conscience Therefore Civill Magistrates of whom this whole Discourse is shall exercise a sacrilegious Tyranny over the Conscience and in vaine goe about to establish it from this place when from the word of God they establish true Religion and goe about to punish the Fundamentall subverters of the same But how farre off Calvins Judgement was to restraine Civill Magistrates from medling in matters of Religion let him interpret himselfe in his own words in his opuscula in his Answer to Servetus who was put to Death for his Heresies at Geneva by his procurement Hoe uno saith he contentus sum Christi adventû nec mutatum esse Ordinem Politicum nec de Magistratuum officio quicquam Detractum A gedùm quod Paulus docet Rom. 13.4 Non frustra ah ipsis Gladium gestari an ad speciem unam restringi debet Fatentur isti quibuscum nunc Discepto ad alia crimina plectenda Judices diviniâ—ùs esse amatos moâ—◠â Religione abstineani ut libera ipsis tacentibus Impietas lasciviat verirm reclamat innumeris locis Spiritus Sanctus c. This one thing saith he sufficeth me that by the coming of Christ neither was the State of Civill Government changed nor any thing taken away from the Magistrates Office Goe to then that which Paul teacheth Rom. 13.4 that he beareth not the Sword in vaine ought it to be restrained unto one kind onely they themselves confesse with whom I have to deale the Magistrates are armed of God to punish other crimes so that they abstaine from matter of Religion that so ungodlynesse may runne riot by their connivance But the Holy Ghost crieth out against this in many places c. Discusser Againe Calvin speaking of sulfilling the Law by Love writeth thus on the same place Paul hath not respect vnto the whole Law he speaketh onely of those duties which the Law commandeth us towards our neighbours And after Paul only mentioneth the second Table c. And that he repeateth Love is the fulfilling of the Law understand it as before of that part of the Law which concerneth humane Society for the former Table of the Law which is of the worship of God is not here touched So Beza upon the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if there be any other Commandement it is summed up in this thou shalt love thy Neighbour as thy selfe the whole Law saith he commandeth nothing but the love of God and our Neighbour but since the Apostle in this place discourseth of the mutuall Duties of men one to another I thinke this Terme Law ought to be restrained to the second Table Defender And so think I too yet without the least prejudice to the cause in hand For if the Question be of the dutyes which Subjects owe to Magistrates they pertaine to the second Table or if the Question be of the vertu eof love one to another That it is the fulfilling of the whole Law It is meant cheifely of the second Table though withall it be true the second Table cannot be fulfilled without fulfilling of the first Table also These things are out of controversie But what is all this to the point in hand The Apostle in calling love the fulfilling of the Law speaketh of the Law of the second Table Ergo the Magistrate who is spoken of in the same chapter hath no power to punish the crimes against the first Table or thus further in the 13. of the Romans the Apostle speaketh of the Duties of Subjects to Magistrates which is a Duty of the second Table therefore Magistrates have no power to punish their Subjects for crimes against the first Table The Discusser might as well argue that the duties of Subjects to Magistrates are duties of the second Table therefore it is not the Dutie of Subjects to pray for their Magistrates which is a Duty of the first Table The Truth is though Prayer be a Duty of the first Table yet to pray for Magistrates is a Duty of the second Table In like sort though Idolatry and Blasphemy and Heresie be sinnes against the first Table yet to punish these with civill penalties is a Duty of the second Table For let it be considered in the feare of God are not all Duties of Righteousnesse to man commanded in the second Table as well as all Duties of Holinesse to God commanded in the first Table If so I demand againe whether it be not a Duty of Righteousnesse belonging to the people of God to enjoy the free passage of Religion Truth of Doctrine Holinesse of worship Purity of Church-Government I demand yet further if it be not an injurious dealing to the people of God to disturb the Truth of Doctrine with Heresie the holinesse of worship with Idolatry the Purity of Government with Tyranny If all these be granted then it unavoydably followeth that all these wayes of unrighteousnesse are justly punishable by the second Table Let not therefore the Discusser please himselfe in deluding himselfe and the world that Beza and Calvine did absolutely denie the 13. of the Romans to concerne any matter of the first Table For though the Duties of Loyalty to Magistrates and of love to all concerne the second Table yet it was neither the word nor Judgement of Calvine or Beza so to interpret Rom. 13. As to exempt Magistrates from Power of punishing Heresie and Idolatry Calvines Interpretation of Rom. 13.4 and his Argument from thence against Servetus is declared above in this chapter Heare now how Beza interpreteth the same Text in his Booke entituled De Haereticis â Magistratu puniendis Testatur Paulus Magistratum esse Dei Ministrum qui Gladium gerat ad eas ulciscendas qui malè agunt Rom. 13.4 Quamobrem alterutrum necesse est si in Haereticos Magistratus jus nullum habet vel ipsos malè non agere quod Refutatione indigere non puto vel quod in genere Paulus ait ad certum maleficiorum genus revocandum eorum videlicet quae corporalia peccata vocant de quo malificiorum discrimine copiosius ut spero posteà suo loco Disseram That is Paul witnesseth saith he that the Magistrate is Gods Minister who beareth the Sword to take vengeance on them that doe evill Rom. 13.4 wherefore one of these two must needs be If Magistrates should have no just power over Hereticks either that Hereticks are not evill doers which is so grosse that I thinke it needs no Refutation or else that Pauls speech is to be restrained to a certaine sort of evill deeds to wit such as they call corporall sinnes of which distinction of evill deeds I shall dispute more largely I hope in his due place hereafter So Beza CHAP. 48. A Reply to his Chap. 48. Discusser THe higher powers in this Rom. 13. were amongst others the Roman Emperours and subordinate Magistrates
Request of the generall Councel of Nice Banished Arius with some of his fellowes Ecclesiast Histor l 1. Cap. 19.20 The same Constantine made a severe Law against the Donatists the like proceedings against them were used by Valentinian Gratian Theodosius as Augustine reporteth in Epist 166. onely Julian the Apostate graunted liberty to Hereticks as well as to Pagans that he might by Tolerating all weeds to grow choake the vitalls of Christianity Which was also the practise and sinne of Ualens the Arian Queene Elizabeth as famous for her government as most of the former It is well knowne what Lawes she made and executed against Papists Yea and King James one of your owne Witnesses though he was slow in proceeding against Papists as you say for Conscience sake yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the Malignant world calleth Puritans men of more Conscience better Faith then the Papists whom he Tolerated Discusser First for mine owne part I would not use an Argument from the number of Princes witnessing in profession or practise against persecution for cause of Conscience c. Truth and Faith must not be received with respect of persons pretious pearles are found in muddy shells The most High chooseth the poore of this world to be witnesses to his Truth and Buchanan dying was going thither whether few Kings were comming Defender This Chapter then might have been spared for it neither maintaineth his cause nor refuteth my answer to his friends Argument but yeeldeth up the invalidity of the Argument from such a Topick place As from the number and votes of Princes But by his leave the answer which I gave to his argument is not taken from the like number of Princes but from the greater piety and presence of God with those Princes who have professed and practised against Toleration It is truly said Suffragia non sunt numeranda sed ponderanda Heroicall wisdome magnanimity and zeale is not the lesse to be esteemed because it is found in the spirit and counsel and practise of Princes CHAP. 59. A Reply to his Chap. 62. Discusser Secondly I observe how inconsiderately I hope not willingly the Answerer passeth by the reasons and grounds urged by these three Princes In King James his speech he passeth by that golden Maxime that God never loved to plant his Church by bloud Defender The Discusser is mistaken when he saith I passed over their reasons and grounds inconsiderately though he hopeth not willingly for indeed I passed them over willingly but not inconsiderately For I well considered either the reasons wanted weight or else did not impugne the cause in hand For instance this speech of King James That God never loved to plant his Church by bloud though it be a Truth of weight yet it doth not touch this cause It is farre from us to defend the planting of Churches by bloud that is to compell men to yeeld themselves to the fellowship of the Church by bloudy Lawes or poenalties the Church of Christ admitteth no members but a willing people Psal 110.3 Neverthelesse that hindereth not but as the Church was purchased and planted by the bloud of Christ so he that shall goe about to supplant and destroy the Church of Christ his bloud may justly fall upon his owne head Discusser Secondly That civill obedience may be performed by Papists this was another reason of King James passed over by the Answerer Defender No marvell that I passed it over for I did not finde it in the Letter For though the King say as the Letter reporteth him I onely declared to be secured for civill obedience which for Conscience cause they were bound to performe yet the King doeth not say That civill obedience may be performed by Papists standing stedfast to the rules of their owne Religion For if the Bishop of Rome upon pretence of hereticall pravity shall excommunicate a Protestant Prince dissolve the Subjects Oath of Allegiance to him depose him dispose of his Kingdome In this case which often falleth out how can civill obedience be performed by the Papists Discusser Thirdly The Kings third ground is his observation in Revel 20. That persecution is a true certaine note of a false Church The wicked are Beseigers the faithfull Beseiged Defender I subscribe to the King that persecution properly so called that is the oppression of any for righteousnesse sake is a note of a false Church but nor a certaine note For againe I say that persecution properly so called may be sometime found in the true Church For which of all the Prophets did not the Church of the old Testament persecute Acts 7.52 And yet that persecution was not the true and certaine note of a false Church For then God had left no true Church upon the face of the earth But this I graunt That such persecution where ever it is found It is a degree of falshood and A postacy in that Church But what a vast distance is there between the just censure of Apostasticall and Hereticall seducers and disturbers of the Churches peace and truth and between persecution As for the other speech The wicked are beseigers the faithfull are beseiged It may well be said of the seige spoken of in that 20. of the Revelation But if it should be put for a universall Maxime Royall Authority cannot make it good Divinity When the ten Christian Kings shall hate the Whore of Rome and eate her flesh and burne her with fire Rev. 17.16 I suppose the Discusser will not say the wicked are Beseigers the faithfull are beseiged Discusser In King Stephens speech of Poland he passeth by the true difference between a civill and a spirituall Government I am said Stephen a civill Magistrate over the bodyes of men not a spirituall over their soules Defender King Stephens speech may well stand and the cause still untouched The Magistrate is a Ruler over the Bodies of men not over their soules He cannot command their soules nor binde their Consciences nor punish their spirits It is the Lord alone can reach them That which the King or Magistrate can doe or doeth in this case is to punish the bodyes of men for destroying or disturbing Religion Discusser To confound these is Babel and Jewish to seeke for Moses and bring him from his Grave c. Defender It is Babel indeed for civill Magistrates to make Lawes to binde Conscience and to excommunicate transgressors of those Lawes But to punish false Prophets and Seducers of Gods people to Idolatry was never the practise of Babel but it was and is their practise not onely to Tolerate them but to advance and encourage them If it were a Jewish seeking of Moses and a bringing him from his Grave to punish Seducers for Idolatry then after Moses was buried that Law Deut. 13. was abrogated But his buryall and Gods hiding of the place thereof was rather a confirmation and establishment of it then any Abrogation or Impeachment
according to their Conscience and beleife and constraine them to such worships which their own soules tell them they have no satifaction nor faith in 1. It is an untruth that either we restraine men from worship according to Conscience or constraine them to worship against Conscience or that such is my Tenent and practise 2. Though it were true that wee did both yet this did not make Lawes to binde Conscience but the outward man onely nor would we thinke it meet to binde the ontward man against Conscience Discusser Againe where as the Answerer affirmeth That men may make Lawes to see the Lawes of God observed I Answer As God needs not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of the Spirit in the affairs of Conscience so those men those Magistrates yea the Common-wealth which makes such Magistrates must needs have power and Authority from Christ Iesus to sit Iudge and to determine in all the great Controversies concerning Doctrine Worship Government c. Defender God needeth not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of his Spirit of righteousnesse in the dutyes of the second Table no more then to assist the Sword of the Spirit of holynesse in the dutyes of the first Table The Law of Righteousnesse is as fully and plainly written by the Spirit of God in the hearts and Consciences of men as is the Law of holynesse yea and more too And yet the Discusser doth not for ought I know make it a needlesse matter for God to accept the helpe of the materiall Sword to assist the Spirit of Righteousnesse in the affaires of Conscience which pertaine to the second Table The truth is God needeth not the Arme of flesh to help him that is he needeth not any help which the wisdome or strength of the creature can invent or bring forth which himselfe appointed not But yet God thinkes it no dishonour to himselfe to make use of his owne Ordinances in their owne bounds to his owne ends Nor doeth he then need them when he useth them but wee need such helps for the performance of our duty both to God and man Which made it a cursed sin in Meroz not to come out to help the Lord Iudge 5 23. Nor will it hence follow that such Magistrates as are chosen to help forward the work of God in matters of Religion that either themselves or the Common-wealth that chooseth them must needs have power and Authority from Christ to sit Iudge and to determine in all great controversies of Religion in Doctrine Discipline and Government It is enough that they are called of God to be wise and learned in the service of Christ and in the wayes of his Kingdome Psal 2.10 11 12. which if they have learned they ought to rule with him and for him or else how shall it be fulfilled which is written of them The Kingdomes of the world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of his Christ and he shall reigne for ever Rev. 7.15 Yea in this case it is learning enough if they know the Principles and Foundations of Religion and can discerne the Arrogancy of a tumultuous spirit after conviction For such want not judgement to censure Apostacy to Heresie in doctrine to Idolatry in worship to Tyranny in Government Discusser But then I aske whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow that then either there is no Common-wealth nor Civill State of men in the world that is not qualified with this discerning and then the Common-wealth hath more light concerning the Church then the Church it selfe Or that the Common-wealth and Magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are perswaded in their owne beleife and Conscience be their Conscience Paganish Turkish or Antichristian And what is this but to confound Heaven and Earth together and to take away not onely the being of Christianity out of the world but all civility yea the world out of the world and to lay all upon heaps of confusion Defender See what strange effects a strong fancy can produce would you not think it must be some strange and strong paradox that if it be graunted shall produce such strange and strong effects as to take away the being of Christianity out of the world yea and all civility yea and the world out of the world But when men have slept a while and strong fancyes are evaporated the world will stand where it is and civility stand in the world and Christianity in civility I say therefore that which no sober minde can contradict that though Magistrates be bound to become wise and learned to know Christ and to establish the Religion of Christ yet it will not as the Discusser saith evidently follow no nor follow at all That then there is no law full Commonwealth nor Civill State of men in the world which is not qualified with this spirituall discerning For though it be the duty of Civill States thus to be qualified yet their want of such qualifications doth not make them unlawfull States Many due qualifications are required in Husbands Wives Children Servants Magistrates Churches the want of which maketh them defective and sinfull but doth not make them unlawfull This will need no proofe to any sober minde Muchlesse will it follow upon the former Premises that the very Common-wealth hath then more light concerning the Church of Christ then the Church it selfe For it is a weake Church that knowes no more light then Principles And what light the Common-wealth hath it may have received from the Church Howsoever the Magistrates power to establish the Religion of Christ doth no way inferre That he that establisheth that Religion which is professed in the Church hath more light concerning that Religion or any part of it then the Church it selfe Albeit it is not impossible nor is it absurd that sometime the Magistrate may have more light in matters of Religion then the Church it selfe David for ought wee read was the first that discerned the disorder in Carting the Arke of God 1 Chron. 15.2 And Hezekiah was the first that prevented the Preists and Levits and the whole Church in the worke of Reformation from the Apostacy of Ahaz 2 Chron. 29.4 to 11. But there is no colour of consequence that because Magistrates are bound to discerne and know the will of Christ and to serve him with their power That therefore such as have no discerning of Christ nor of his holy will That they should punish and destroy Christ and Christians and seeke only to advance their owne Religion which is but Idolatry and Superstition CHAP. 70. A Reply to his Chap. 73. Discussing the Testimony of Luther Discusser LUthers Testimony saith the Answerer reacheth to two things neither of which we deny First that the Government of the civill Magistrate reacheth no further then to the bodies and goods of their Subjects not over their soules and therefore they may not undertake to give Lawes
Discusser IF it be said neither the Roman Caesar nor Herod nor Pilate knew ought of the true God or of Christ and it had been in vaine to have made complaint to them who were not fit and competent but ignorant and opposite Judges Answ 1. This removeth the stumbling blocke of Pauls appeale to Caesar which since he could not doe in common sence as to a competent Judge in such cases c. It must needes follow his appeale was meerely in respect of his civill wrongs c. Answ 2. If it had been an Ordinance of God that all civill Magistrates were bound to judge in causes spirituall and Christian as to suppresse Heresies to defend the Faith of Jesus although that Caesar Herod and Pontius Pilate were ignorant wicked and opposite Judges yet Christ and his Disciples should have gone as farre as lay in their power for redressing of evill and left it in the Magistrates hands Answ 3. If it had been the holy will of God to have established the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne this way he would have furnished Kingdomes and Common-wealths with many good and gracious Magistrates to have fitted them for it Defender Reply 1. to Ans 1. Pauls appeale to Caesar was about the wrongs done unto the Jewes Acts 25.10 The wrongs to them were not onely civill but Church-offences which Paul denied Neither against the Law of the Jewes saith he nor against the Temple nor against Caesar have I offended any thing at all ver 8. Festus demanded if he would goe up to Hierusalem there to be judged of these things ver 9. These things were matters of Religion as well as civill offences To offend against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were offences against Religion to offend against Caesar was a civill offence To be judged of these things Paul declineth the Court at Hierusalem as being unjustly prejudiced against him But professing his owne innocency and subjection to just judgement He appealeth to Caesars judgement seate ver 10 11. wherein three or foure things doe evidently appeare 1. That a man may be such an offender in matters of Religion against the Law of God against the Church as well as in civill matters against Caesar as to be worthy of death This Paul presupposeth ver 8 9 10. 2. That Paul or any other such like servant of Christ If he should commit any such offence he would not refuse judgement unto death ver 11. 3. That for the Judgement of his person in these causes whether ecclesiasticall or civill It is lawfull in some cases to appeale to a civill though a Pagan Magistrate In some cases I say as where both these concurre to wit 1. That Church-officers are maliciously prejudiced against a man and inferiour civil Courts incline to them 2. That a man be called in question amongst them in capitall causes which concerne his life But a fourth thing which appeareth from Pauls appeale is this That the civill Magistrate whether Christian or Pagan may and ought to be so well acquainted not onely with civill causes but also with causes of Religion especially such as concerne life as to be able to judge though not of all questions yet of capitall offences against Religion as well as against the civill State Reply 2. to Ans 2. The Marginall Note seemeth to imply a contradiction to it selfe for thus it speaketh Civill Magistrates were never appointed by God Defenders of the Faith of Jesus And againe Every one is bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse Surely if every one be bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse then civill Magistrates are bound to put forth their civill power in defending the Faith of Jesus Neither will it henceforth follow That either Christ or his Disciples were bound to complaine to Caesar or to Herod or to Pontius Pilate against the Heresies of the Pharises For though all Magistrates even Pagans ought to informe themselves in the matters of Faith and of Christian Religion that they may observe and preserve it and it will be a destructive sinne to them and their States if they doe neglect it Psal 2.10 11 12. Yet it may be safer for a Christian man being oppressed in inferiour Courts of hereticall malignant Judges to appeale from them unto Pagan Princes in his owne just defence then to make complaint to malignant hereticall Judges or to Pagan Princes against heresies or hereticall false Teacliers Christ sent out his Disciples as sheepe amongst wolves and therefore instructed them to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves Matth. 10.16 Now it is no part of wisedome for a sheepe of Christ to complaine to a kennell of wolves That amongst the wolves there be some of their company doe make havocke of the sheepe leading them aside into damnable heresies If a poore sheepe should attempt such a thing would not the whole kennell of wolves arise up against him as a troubler of their State that when he enjoyeth peace himselfe they trouble not him yet he will needes be so busie as to trouble them And therefore we deny that it had tended to the defence of the Faith of Jesus or to the suppressing Herisies for Christ and his Disciples to have complained to Herod Pilate Caesar of the heresies of the Pharises It had rather tended to the disturbance and suppression of the Faith of Jesus by provoking the malice of the Pharises and by disquieting civill Thrones with feares and jealousies of a new Kingdome springing up amongst them Besidâ—â— it had been altogether preposterous to make use of the civill power for the first publishing of the Gospell of peace It was necessary the Gospell should first be knowne and received and beleeved and professed before any could be complained of for Apostacy from it into Heresie or seducement of others into such wickednesse Reply 3. to Ans 3. We doe not say It is the holy Will and Purpose of God to establish the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne our Lord Jesus onely this way to wit by the helpe of civill Authority For it is his Will also to magnifie his Power in establishing the same by a contrary way even by the sufferings patient sufferings of his Saints and by the bloudy swords of persecuting Magistrates Revel 12.11 So that Christ need not to send good and gracious Magistrates as if for want of them the Christian Faith and Religion would fall to the ground for it hath spread and flourished under fiery and cruell persecution But yet this hindreth not but that it is the duty of Magistrates to know the Sonne and to kisse him to acknowledge his Kingdome and submit their Thrones and Crownes to it to love his truth and to be nursing Fathers to his Church Isai 49.23 which how they can doe and yet not be Defenders of the Faith of Jesus I doe not understand CHAP. 31. A Reply to his thirteenth Chapter discussing by the way the
aske whether or no such as may hold forth other Worships or Religions Jewes Turkes Antichristians may not be peaceable and quiet Subjects loving and helpfull neighbours faire and just dealers c. It is cleare they may in all experience and yet in spirituall and Mysticall Account they are ravenous and greedy Wolves Defender It hath been declared above that we doe not hold it lawfull to constraine by Civill Sword Jewes or Turkes or Antichristians to be of our Religion whether they be good Subjects loving Neighbours faire dealers yea or no. Nor doth the Apostle in that Text which the Discusser hath in hand speake of men out of the Church Jewes Turkes or Antichristians but of such as enter into the Church and are of themselves Now if Church-members should Apostate from Christ and of Christians become Jewes and Turkes and Antichristians and draw away Disciples after them I would demand of any man whose Conscience is not past feeling of the danger of damnable Heresies whether such Members may goe for peaceable and quiet Subjects for loving and helpfull Neighbours for faire and just dealers for true and Loyall to the civill Government If those be peaceable and quiet Subjects that withdraw Subjects from Subjection to Christ if they be loving and helpfull Neighbours that help men on to perdition If they be faire and just dealers that wound the soules of the best and kill and destroy the soules of many if such be true and loyall to Civill Government that subject it to the Tyranny of a forraine Prelate then it will be no advantage to civill States when the Kingdomes of the Earth shall become the Kingdomes of our Lord and they may doe as good service to the civill State who bring the wrath of God upon them by their Apostacie as they that bring downe blessings from Heaven by the Profession and Practise of the true Religion in Purity Discusser I querie secondly to whom Paul gave this charge to watch against them ver 31. They were not the Magistrates of the City of Ephesus but the Elders of the Church of Ephesus Defender Who doubteth of it Discusser Many of these charges and Exhortations given by Christ to the Shepheards and Ministers of the Churches be commonly attributed and directed by the Answerer in this Discourse to the Civill Magistrate Defender Cujus contrarium verumest For looke the Answer through and you shall find not one of these charges or Exhortations given to Ministers were ever directed by the Answerer to civill Magistrates the falshood of the Discusser in this charge upon the Answerer is palpable and notorious And this exhortation in this place the Answerer doth not so much as mention at all either as directed to Magistrates or to Elders Discusser I desire it may be inquired into whether in all the will or Testament of Christ there be any such word of Christ by way of Command Promise or Example countenancing the Governours of the Givill State to meddle with these wolves if in civill things peaceable and obedient Defender This Condition if in civill things peaceable and obedient implyeth a contradiction to the nature and practice of wolves How can Wolves be peaceable and obedient unlesse they be restrained and how can they be restrained and not medled with What Peace said Jehu so long as the whoredomes of Jezabel and her witchcrafts are so many 2 Kings 9.22 Yes may not spirituall whoredomes and witch-crafts stand with Civill Peace No verily the whoredomes and witch-crafts of the Jezabel of Rome tooke away civill peace from the earth and brought in the Turks to oppresse the peace both of Christian Churces and Common-wealths as hath been shewed above Revel 9.15.21 That dreadfull example of Gods vengeance upon Civill States for tolerating and practising Image-worship is a serious and loud warning to all Christian States to beware of such seducing spirits as beare them in hand they shall have peace though they tolerate Idolatrous and false worships in their Territoryes Besides for another example and that approved you find in the Lords Testament Revel 16.4 5 6 7. of which before And for a word of command from Christ to meddle with wolves that grand charter whereby Magistrates are established in the new Testament may abundantly suffice The Magistrate is the Minister of God an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Rom. 14.4 If the wolfe be an evill doer let him looke at the Magistrate as appointed of God to be an avenger and executor of wrath upon him Say not yea if the wolfe be an evill doer against the second Table but not so if against the first Table or if an evill doer against the bodies and estates of men not so if against their soules For who gave any man commission so to limit the word of God or the power of the Magistrate Besides it hath been often said that he that goeth about to subvert Religion and to destroy soules is an evill doer against the peace of the Civill State Discusser If God had given charge to Magistrates to punish evill doers in matters of Religion he would have given to Magistrates in the world ability to discerne and determine who are sheep and who are wolvish oppressors whom he is bound to punish and suppresse Yea they must be able to discerne this not with others mens eyes but with their owne c. Defender It hath been declared above that Magistrates ought to be so well accquainted with matters of Religion as to discerne the Fundamentall Principels thereof and the evill of chose heresies and Blasphemies as doe subvert the same Their ignorance thereof is no discharge of their duty before the Lord. Such wolvish oppressors and Doctrines and practises as they cannot discerne with their own eyes It will be their sin either to suppresse them because they cannot doe it of faith or to tolerate them because they are destructive to the soules of the people and enemies to the common salvation Gallio is justly censured as a prophane man not because he refused to be a Judge in matters concerning the Jewish worship and Religion for he had noe Law of Caesar whose Deputy he was to judge of it but because he rejecteth the cognizance of such causes of Religion as a Question of words and Names Which made him so â—ame regardlesse of causes of Religion that though the Civill peace was broken by the Jewes in pursuite of Paul the Jewes laying violent hands upon Sasthenes and that before the judgement Seate yet Gallio cared for none of those things Acts 18 15.16.17 Discusser In the third place I Quere Whether the Father who gave the sheep and the Sonne who keepeth them be not greater then all And who can plucke the Elect out of his hand which Answereth the common objection of the danger of devouring soules Defender It doth not Answer that Objection For the Father and Sonne were greater then all in the old Testament as well as in the New And none could then pluck
under them But they all were strangers from the life of God yea most averse and opposite yea cruell and bloudy Persecutors of the Name and followers of Jesus and yet unto these is subjection commanded Now then I argue If Paul had commanded this subjection to Romane Magistrates in spirituall causes to defend the Truth to punish Hereticks neither of which they could discerne nor judge of but by Trust from others as Pilate condemned Jesus he must in the Judgement of all men have put out the eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once Defender Not in the Judgement of all men for besides Calvin and Beza whose Judgement you have heard all those Interpreters who expound this place in the Romans of the Magistrates power in punishing spirituall evill doers as well as corporall they none of them doe so judge that Paul in commanding the Churches to yeild subjection unto civill Magistrates in matters of Religion did put out the Eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once For first it is one thing to yeild subjection to the unrighteous Decrees of Ignorant and Pagan Magistrates another thing to obey their Ordinances in matters of Faith and worship and Government of the Church The former of these Christians did yeild unto the Romane Magistrates even subjection unto the Death the other they neither did nor ought to yeild as knowing God was to be obeyed rather then men Secondly though it be true whilst the Romane Emperours and Magistrates were Pagans and Persecutors they were incompetent Judges to discerne and give Sentence in the spirituall matters of Christian Religion yet the word of Christ who commandeth a Duty commandeth all the necessary meanes which tend to that Duty And therefore in giving them a Power and charge to execute vengeance on evill doers and that in matters of spirituall unrighteousnesse against the Church as in matters of Civill unrighteousnesse against the Common-wealth It behoved them to enquire and listen after true Religion to heare and trie all and upon serious deliberate and just scruting to hold fast that which is good and so prevent the disturbance thereof by the contrary It was no vaine charge of the Holy Ghost Psal 2 10 11 12. If Christ have an Iron Scepter in his hand to crush all States and Kingdomes Emperours and Princes as well as private persons Be wise now therefore ô yee Kings be instructed yee that are Judges of the Earth serve the Lord with feare rejoyce unto him with trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angry and yee perish in the way Thirdly the cases of Religion wherein we allow Civill Magistrates to be Judges are so fundamentall and palpable that no Magistrate studious of Religion in the feare of God but if he have any spirituall discerning as all truly Christian Magistrates have and even Pagans have discerned between innocent Christians and turbulent Seducers he cannot but judge of such grosse corruptions as are unsufferable in Religion as hath been opened above Though we reserve to the Prophets and Churches Judicium Propheticum as hath been said above yet we allow Judicium Politicum to Civill Magistrates studious of Truth as all ought to be and the Judgement of Discretion unto all Christians But as for such Magigistrates as are meerely naturall and Pagan though Christians be bound to subject themselves unto them with patience yet such Magistrates ought to forbeare the exercise of their Power either in protecting or punishing matters of Religion till they have learned so much knowledge of the Truth as may enable them to discerne of things that differ But this forbearance of theirs is not for want of Authority in their callings nor for want of Duty in their Consciences but for want of evidence to them in the cause In which Case Magistrates are wont to forbeare their exercise of their Power and to respit Judgement even in Civill causes not for want of Authority or Duty to doe Justice But for want of ripe and full cognizance of the Cause CHAP. 49. A Reply to his Chap. 49. Discusser VVHy then did Paul himselfe appeale to Caesar Acts 25. unlesse that Caesar though he was not yet yet he ought to have been a fit Judge in such matters Answ Paul appealed to Caesar not to judge the cause of his Religion but to defend him from civill violence and slanderous accusations about sedition mutiny civill Disobedience c. From which Caesar as a supreme civill Magistrate ought to defend him Defender This appeale of Paul to Caesar doth evidently hold forth three things 1. That there is a lawfull and needfull use of civill Magistracy unto Christians 2. That Church Officers even of highest ranck the Apostles themselves and other Ministers are subject to civill Authority as well as private Christians 3. That Paul did submit to Caesars Judgement-seate the tryall of his innocency as well in matters of Religion as in civill conversation For he pleadeth his innocency that he was guilty in none of those things whereof they did accuse him and for tryall hereof he appealeth to Caesar ver 11. Now the things whereof they did accuse him were offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple as well as against Caesar ver 8. And offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were matters of Religion And yet even in these Paul appealeth to Caesars Judgement-seat for tryall of his innocency Discusser But if Paul in this Appeale to Caesar had submitted his Religion which was the cause of Christ his Ministery and Ministration to the Romane Emperours Tribunall he had sinned First against the light of Reason Secondly against the cause of Religion Thirdly against the holy Calling of a Christian Fourthly against his owne calling of Apostleship Fifthly against the holy name of God c. Defender All these sinnes might with some colour have been charged upon Paul if he had appealed to Caesar to Judge whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were of God or no. But that was no point of his Appeale But whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were guilty of any capitall crime against the Law of the Jewes or against the Temple or against Caesar Now in this case Paul might safely appeale to Caesar and that to the Honour of God of his Apostolick and Christian Calling and to the glory of his Religion The Reasons against Pauls Appeale in this case are but bul-rushes CHAP. 50. A Reply to his Chap. 50. Discusser HAving dispatched two Arguments against the founding of the civill Magistrates power in spirituall causes in Rom. 13. First from the Testimony of Calvin and Beza the second from Caesars incompetency and insufficiency to Judge of spirituall matters I come now to the third Argument taken from the nature of the Magistrates weapons he hath a Sword and that Sword is a civill Sword a Sword of civill Justice which being of a materiall and civill nature serveth for the defence of Persons Estates Families Liberties of
knew it was out of Question all persecution was unlawfull whether by the Church or the Magistrate an unjust excommunication is as true persecution as an unjust Banishment But if persecution be taken more largely and loosely as it is by the Author of the Letter and by the Discusser for any affliction or persecution for cause of Conscience whether good Conscience or evill whether rightly informed or erroneous If that be the intent of the Letter as it seemed to me to beare witnesse against that then any testimony of Scripture that justifieth a lawfull censure of false and erroneous Teachers doth evince the scope of the Letter to be erroneous which is against all persecution for cause of Conscience Let therefore the Discusser admire at his owne admiration and be astonished at his owne astonishment that wondereth to see an universall negative argued against by a particular affirmative The Letter denyeth the lawfulnesse of all persecution in cause of Conscience that is in matter of Religion I seek to evince the falshood of it by an instance of lawfull Church-prosecution in case of false Teachers Discusser But if the Churches and Angels thereof had sufficient power to suppresse Balaam and Jezabel then all power of Magistrates and Governours in Pergamus and Thyatira though they had been Christian must needs fall to the ground as none of Christs appointment Defender The power of the Churches and Angels of Pergamus and Thyatyra were sufficient for those ends for which Christ ordained Church-power to wit for the healing of the soules of such seducers if they belonged to Christ as also for keeping those Churches pure from the fellowship of the guilt of their Act in teaching false Doctrines whom they had duly censured But the power of those Churches and Angels was not sufficient to prevent the further spreading of the Leaven of their false Doctrines both in such as were out of the Church and in private amongst the members of the Church who might adhere to them Much lesse was the putting forth of the Church-power against them sufficient to cleare the Magistrates of a Christian State from the guilt of Apostasie in suffering such Apostates amongst them who would be ready to solicite many simple soules either to with-hold and with-draw themselves from the Fellowship of the Churches or in the Churches to withdraw from the Lord Jesus Discusser Lastly from this perverse wresting of what is writ to the Church and the Officers thereof as if it were writ to the Civill Officers and State thereof all may see how since the Apostacie of Antichrist the Christian world so called hath swallowed up Christianity how the Church and Civill State that is the Church and the world are now become one flock of Jesus Christ c. Defender Here is no wresting much lesse perverse wresting of any Scripture at all from the Church to the Civill State I intended to apply the Scripture written to the Churches and to the Officers thereof no further then to other Churches and their Officers The Scriptures upon which we call in the Magistrate to the punishment of Seducers are such as are directed to civill States and Magstrates of which divers have been mentioned and applyed before CHAP. 56. A Reply to his Chap. 58 and 59. Discussing the Testimony of some Princes Discusser I Proceed to the second Head of Reasons against persecution for cause of Conscience taken from the profession of famous Princes King James Stephen of Poland King of Bonemia Vnto whom the Answerer returneth a treble Answer 1. Wee willingly acknowledge saith he that none is to be persecuted at all no more then any may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake Again we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his Conscience though misinformed unlesse his errour be fundamentall or seditiously and turbulently promoted and that after due conviction of his Conscience that it may appeare he is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience Furthermore we acknowledge none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the truth of it but yet restrayned he may be from blaspheming the Truth and from seducing any into pernicious errours This first Answer I believe I have sufficiently cleared the weaknesse of the Foundations thereof in the former discourse Defender And I doubt not but by the help of Christ I have formerly declared and convinced the feeblenesse of the opposition made against them and what firme foundations those Answers are built upon from the Scriptures of Truth Discusser His second Answer is this what Princes professe and practise is not a Rule of Conscience They many times tolerate that in State Policy which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true Christianity Againe Princes many times tolerate Offendors out of very necessity when the Offenders are too many or too mighty for them to punish In which respect David tolerated Joab and his murder but against his will It may be here observed how the Answerer dealeth with Princes one while they are nursing Fathers to the Church not onely to feed but also to correct and therefore consequently bound to judge what is true feeding and correcting and consequently all men are bound to submit to their feeding and correcting Defender The Discusser doth partly falsly and partly fraudulently fasten upon me this dealing with Princes That I make them nursing Fathers of the Church I therein follow the footsteps of the Holy Ghost before me teaching what Princes should be and foretelling what they shall be in the latter dayes Isaiah 49.23 In which place It was not the intent of the Holy Ghost nor mine to threaten the Church with a red of Correction But to comfort the Church with a double blessing First of the Fatherly provision and protection of Princes for the Church Secondly of their subjection to the Church in respect of their spirituall Estate What Princes may doe in case the Church should Apostate and become no Church or in case they should breake forth into Sedition and Rebellion against the Civill State It is another Question which I have not medled with in all this Discourse Neither have I spoken of Princes as bound to Judge what is true feeding or correcting least of all have I said that all men are bound especially in Conscience to their feeding and correcting These are calumnies devised by the Discusser All I have said to my remembrance this way is that Princes are bound to be wise and Learned with holy knowledge that they may kisse the Sonne and be subject to him Psal 2.10.11 And therefore able to discerne of such corrupt feeding as destroyeth the Foundation of Religion and the soules of Gods people that they may be able to restraine such and to preserve the Church from such ravenous Wolves and I deny not that their Subjects are to submit to them herein when they judge according to the Word or howsoever patiently to suffer for well-doing without resistance
in a way of Hostility notwithstanding any Church-power If ought be unsound in this dealing with Princes I am willing to heare of it Discusser Another while when Princes crosse Mr. Cottons Judgement and Practise then it matters not what the Profession and Practise of Princes is for saith he their Profession and Practise is no Rule to Conscience Defender If Princes swerve from the rule of the word either in profession or practise their owne profession or practise is no rule either to themselves or others Princes ought not to rule the word but are to be ruled by it But see the notorious calumny of the Discusser so representing Mr Cottons dealing with Princes as if he made his owne judgement and practise the rule of the proceeding of Princes Men whose tongues are their owne may speake any thing But yet such as feare the Lord would tremble at such speeches as neither expresse Truth nor Love Discusser I aske then unto what Princes or Magistrates will themselves or any so perswaded submit to as unto keepers of both Tables and nursing Fathers and Mothers to the Church First will it not evidently follow by these Tenents That they ought not to submit to any Magistrates in the world in these cases but to Magistrates just of their owne Conscience Defender We subject our selves to all sorts of Magistrates of the Countries where we live or whether we come whether Christian or Pagan Orthodox or erroneous just of our Consciences or unjust against them Subject our selves I say either in active submission and obedience when they command according to God or in passive submission of our bodyes and goods lives and liberties when they command against God Since the Discusser concludeth it will evidently follow that wee will submit to no Magistrates but just of our owne Consciences let him make that evident which he saith is evident or else let him say he is evidently mistaken né quid dicam gravius Discusser Secondly will it not also follow that all other Consciences in the world except their owne must be persecuted by such their Maistrates Defender This will no wayes follow unlesse all mens Consciences in the world did erre Fundamentally and obstinately after just conviction against the very Principles of Christian Religion or at least unlesse they maintained and held forth other errors though not Fundamentally subverting Religion yet Fundamentally subverting Church-Order and civill order and that in a turbulent and Factious manner For in these cases only we follow Magistrates to punish in matters of Religion Discusser And Lastly Is not this to make Magistrates but stepps and stirrops for themselves to ascend and mounte into their rich and honorable Seats and Saddels I meane great and setled maintenances which neither the Lord Jesus nor any of his first Messengers the true Patterns did ever know Defender How this power ascribed to Magistrates not by me but by the body almost of all Faithfull Ministers yea by the Prophets and Apostles themselves should make Magistrates staires and stirrops for our selves to mount up so high let him that can discerne it make it appeare To allow them power over our selves in case of Hereticall Delinquency is not to make them staires or stirrops of our advancement but Swords and staves if need be for our punishment Besides I wonder what fancy came into the Discussers minde to dreame of rich and honorable Seates and Saddels of our Magistrates When as he need not beignorant how farre short they themselves fall of rich and honorable Seates and Saddels which himselfe interpreteth great and settled maintenances Lastly I suppose he is not ignorant that my selfe against whom he is pleased by Name to write this invective liveth not upon great and settled maintenance but according to that which he calleth the true patterne of the first Messengers of the Lord Jesus CHAP. 57. A Reply to his Chap. 60. Discusser IN the second place the Answerer saith that Princes out of State-Policy doe sometime Tolerate what suiteth not with Christianity and out of State-necessity Tolerate as David did Joab against their wills But then the Answerer must acknowledge with me That there is a necessity sometime of State-Toleration as in the case of Joab And so his former affirmation generally lay'd downe viz That it is evill to Tolerate seducing Teachers and Scandalous Lives Was not duely weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary and is too light Defender I easily acknowledge sometime a necessity of State Toleration As I have formerly expressed in Chap. 53. especially in two cases whereof that of Joab is one But that will nothing impeach the Truth of my former affirmation delivered in generall termes especially if it be weighed in the Ballance of the Sanctuary For the holy writings of the Sanctuary doe expresly deliver the like position in like generall termes As Moses saith who so sheddeth mans bloud by man shall his bloud be shed This Law is delivered in generall termes and yet though Joab was a murderer he was tolerated to live all the Reigne of David yet I hope the Discusser wil not say that generall Law of Moses was not duely weighed in the Ballance of the Sanctuary and is too light Discusser I affirme Secondly That that State-Policy and State-necessity which permitteth Consciences of men will be found to agree most punctually with the Rules of the best Politition that ever the world saw the Lord Jesus himselfe who commanded the permitting of the Tares to wit Antichristians or false Christians with true Christians as I have discoursed above Defender That discourse hath bin examined above and found too light so farre as it crosseth the Truth returned in Answer to the Letter To permit some Antichristians or false Christians The Answer to the Letter did allow unlesse they maintained Fundamentall Heresies against the Foundation of Religion and that obstinately after conviction and did withall seduce others into the same Apostacy But as for such Hereticks and seducing Teachers I hope it hath been cleared they are none of those Tares of which Christ saith Let them alone Besides it is an Interpretation of Christs words formerly given and not to be reversed That if by Tares were meant such grosse offendors then the speech of Christ Let them alone is not a word of command in way of an Ordinance but a word of Permission and prediction what will be in way of Providence Like that in Luk. 22.36 He that hath no sword let him sell his Garment and buy a sword It is not a word of command or direction what the Disciples should doe But a word of prediction what times of tryall they should meet withall CHAP. 58. A Reply to his Chap. 61. Discusser His Third Answer is this FOr those three Princes named by you who Tolerated false Religion wee can name more and greater who have not Tolerated Hereticks and Schismaticks notwithstanding their pretence of Conscience and Arrogating the crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings Constantine the great at the
of it For may it not justly be conceived That the Lord therefore hid the place of his buriall least the Children of Israel knowing it might goe a whoring after his Sepulchre and it may be offer sweet incense upon it and so such false worship against the law of Moses might come to be Tolerated for honor to the body of Moses But Christ hath abolished a Nationall State or Church which Moses set up in Canaan Though Christ abolished a Nationall Church-State and instead thereof set up a Congregationall Church yet Christ never abolished a Nationall Civill State nor the Judiciall Lawes of Moses which were of Morall equity but established them rather in their place and order He that shed his own bloud to plant his Church did never abolish that Law which enacted that his bloud should be upon him who should supplant his Church If Christs bloud goe to plant it let the false Christs bloud goe for supplanting it Discusser In the King of Bohemias speech the Answerer passeth by that Foundation in grace and Nature that Conscienee ought not to be violated and forced it is a spirituall Rape Defender This was not passed by but prevented in stating the Question where it was said it is not lawfull to censure any no not for error in Fundamentall points of Doctrine or Worship till the Conscience of the offendor be first convinced out of the word of God of the dangerous error of his way and then if he still persist It is not out of Conscience but against his Conscience as the Apostle saith Tit. 3.11 so he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Discusser The King observeth that most lamentably true experience of all ages That persecution for cause of Conscience hath ever proved pernicious c. Defender No experience in any age did ever prove it pernicious to punish seducing Apostates after due conviction of the error of their way Wherein did the burning of Servetus prove pernicious to Geneva or the just execution of many popish Preists to Queene Elizabeth or to the english State But the Kings speech may passe if it be meant of persecution properly so called to wit Oppression of the faithfull for the Truths sake yea if it be the punishment of any for error If not Fundamentally pernicious either to Religion or Church-order and that after conviction of Conscience persisted in with obstinacy Discusser Lastly the Kings observation of his owne time that Persecution for cause of Conscience was practised most in England and such places where Popery reigned Implying as I conceive such practises commonly proceed from the great Whore whose Daughters are like their Mother all of a bloudy nature as commonly all wolves be Defender It is no marvell if I passed by this observation in the Kings speech For there is no such observation there to be found If the Discusser had well observed it himselfe he would have found it was not the speech of the King but of the Prisoner And the persecution he speaketh of was not of Antichristians or Hereticks or Idolaters but onely of such as the world nick-named Puritans or the like and of them too without conviction of the error of their way But in that the Discusser maketh England a Daughter of the great Whore and of a bloudy nature like her Mother he speaketh as some other of the rigid Seperation have done before him But I could never yet see awarrant from the rule either of Truth or Love for such a speech Did ever the holy Scripture call any Church an whore that worshipped the true God onely in the Name of Jesus and depended on him alone for righteousnesse and salvation Is it not the part of a base childe or at least a base pare of a childe to call his Mother whore who bred him and bred him to know no other Father but her lawfull Husband the Lord Jesus Christ CHAP. 60. A Reply to his 63. Chap. Discusser NOw Thirdly In that the Answerer observeth that amongst the Romane Emperors they that did not persecute were Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian Whereas the good Emperors Constantine Gratian Valentian and Theodosius they did persecute the Arians and Donatists Let it be for an Answer It is no new thing for godly and eminently godly men to performe ungodly actions nor for ungodly persons for wicked ends to act what in it selfe is good and righteous c. Defender This may goe for a truth but not for an Answer The Letter would Justifie Toleration of Religion from the judgement and speeches of three Kings I Answered that was no Argument for I could bring him Kings more in number and greater in the sight of God and man who judged it meet not to tolerate Hereticks nor turbulent Schismaticks To this the Discusser Answereth sometimes the Godly doe that which is evill and the wicked that which is good This I say is a Truth but doth not take away my Answer but by a Petitio Principij a begging of the Question That Kings alledged by him did that which was good but the Kings alledged by me though better persons did that which was evill CHAP. 61. A Reply to his Chap. 64. Discusser THe unknowing zeale of Constantine and other Emperors did more hurt to Christ Jesus his Church and Kingdome then the raging fury of the most bloudy Neroes In the persecution of those wicked Emperors Christians were sweet and fragrant like spice pounded in Morters But those good Emperors persecuting some erroneous persons and advancing the Professors of some truthes and maintaining their Religion by the materiall Sword by this meanes Christianity was eclipsed The Professors of it fell asleepe Cant. 5. Babel was usher'd in and by degrees the Churches of the Saints were turned into the Wildernesse of whole Nations Rev. 12.13 untill the whole world became Christian or Christendome Those good Emperors intending to exalt Christ but not attending to the command of Christ Jesus to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world they made the Garden of the Church and Field of the world all one c. Defender If the unknowing zeale of Constantine other Christian Emperors did more hurâ— to the Church then the raging fury of bloudy Neroes It was not because the raging fury of those Persecutors was more accepted of God then this unknowing zeale of the good Emperors For though the unknowing zeale of the one was finfull yet it was the friut of humane frialty Error Amoris But the rage of the others was divelish fury Amor Erroris Besides the unknowing zeale of the good Emperors lay not in punishing notorious Hereticall Seducers nor will the Discusser be ever able to shew that the Church of Christ suffered any hurt at all by that meanes The contrary is evident Constantius and Valens by Tolerating and favoring the Arians the whole world became Arian Ingemuit orbis Christianus et miratus est factum se esse Arianum
which Abraham the Father of the faithfull and God the Judge of all the Earth thought equall Gen. 18.25 that the Righteous should not be as the wicked nor that Truth and Fidelity should suffer as Heresie and Apostacy Discusser Yea but it is not confidence of being in the Truth which they judge the Papists and others are not in no nor the Truth it selfe that can priviledge them to persecute others and to exempt themselves from persecution for three Considerations First because it is against the nature of true sheep to persecute or hunt the Beasts of the Forrest no not the Wolves who have persecuted themselves Defender It is a feeble kind of reasoning from a similitude in some things to presse a resemblance in every thing Sheep doe fitly resemble Christians in many proprieties but he that shall therefore presse them to be like in all shall not suffer a Magistrate if he be a sheep of Christ to punish Robbers Adulterers Murderers why for it is against the Nature of true sheep to persecute any Beasts of the Forrest Besides I demand whether Paul was a sheep or a Wolfe when he smote Elymas with blindnesse If he were a Wolfe how is he then said to be filled with the Holy Ghost Acts 13.9 If he were a sheep why did he strike such a Beast of the Forrest ver 10 11. Furthermore when the Wolfe runneth ravenously upon the sheep is it against the nature of the true sheep to run to their Shepheard And is it then against the Nature of the true Shepheard to send forth his Dogs to worry such a Wolfe without incurring the reproach of a persecutor Discusser Secondly if it be a Duty and charge upon all Magistrates in all parts of the world to judge and persecute in and for spirituall Causes then either they are no Magistrates who are not able to judge in such cases or else they must judge according to their Consciences whether Pagan Turkish or Antichristian Defender This hath been againe and againe Answered above though it be the Duty of all Magistrates in the world to judge and punish Blasphemers Idolaters and Seducers yet not in sensu composite whilst they are ignorant of the Truth and cannot judge of such causes but in sensu diviso they are bound to be wise and instructed in the knowledge and worship of Christ Psal 2.10.11 12. and then to judge accordingly But in the meane time it doth not follow that they are no Magistrates who are not able to doe all the Duties of a Magistrate Neither will it follow that they must judge according to their Consciences when their Consciences are blind and erroneous Pagan Turkish Antichristian Let them first cast Beames out of their owne eyes and then they will better discerne between Beame and motes in other men Discusser Thirdly the Experience of our Fathers errours and of our owne mistakes and ignorance the sense of our owne weaknesses and blindnesse in the depths of the Prophecies and mysteries of the Kingdome of Christ and the great professed Expectation of the Light to come which wee are not now able to comprehend may abate the edge and sheath up the Sword of Persecution against any especially such as differ not from them in Doctrines of Repentance or Faith or Holynesse of heart and life but onely in the way and manner of the Administration of Jesus Christ Defender I say as Augustine sometime said in another case Nunquid negandum quod certum est quia comprehendi non potest quod occultum est There are depths of sundry Prophecies which we yet comprehend not but shall we therefore be alwayes babes and ignorant of the Fundamentall Principles of Christian Religion yea and suffer them to be shaken and ruined because there are some Prophesies and Mysteries which wee yet understand not shall the expectation of greater Light so dazle our eyes before wee see it that we cannot be able to see what wee doe see It is not Light but darknesse that cloudeth the Light already revealed Nor is it darknesse onely but blacknesse of darknesse that putteth Light for darknesse and darknesse for Light and would have both tolerated to live together in the same Hemispheare because some blinde Christians cannot yet tell which is whether It is true the Experience of former Errours and sense of present weaknesses may justly abate the edge and sheath up the Sword of persecution against any that differ onely in errours of weakenesse and differ not in Doctrines of Faith Repentance and Holinesse of heart and life Yea wee willingly grant more then the Discusser requireth in such a case For though there should bee some Difference in Doctrines of faith or Repentance or Holinesse Yet wee should not approve the unsheathing of the Sword against such unlesse the Doctrine were fundamentally subversive to faith or Repentance or Holinesse and that obstinately maintained against light and conviction and broached and dispersed to the Infection and Seduction of others If the Difference be only in the way and manner of Administration of Christ Iesus and that Difference held forth in a Christian and Peaceable way God forbid a staffe should be shaken against such much lesse a Sword unsheathed CHAP. 72. A Reply to his Chap. 75th Discussing a Testimony of Augustine Discusser TO begin with Augustine They murther saith Hee Soules and themselves are afflicted in Body They put men to everlasting Death and yet they complaine when themselves are put to a temporall Death This Rhetoricall perswasion of humane wisdome seemeth very reasonable in the Eye of flesh and bloud but one Scripture more prevaileth with faithfull and obedient soules then thousands of plausible and Eloquent speeches Defender Neither this Testimony nor the rest of those Ancients that follow were alledged to prevaile with the Faith of any further then Light of Scripture might shine forth in them but onely to counterpoyse the Testimonies of the Ancients alledged in the Letter against the Truth And the Discusser in his entrance into this chapter is forced to acknowledge that the cause wee maintaine hath more number of Votes and I may adde weight of Voters then the contrary Tenent onely he putteth it off with this evasion that Antichrist is too hard for Christ at Votes and Numbers Which yet is the more to be marvelled at that when the cause is about the Toleration of Hereticks and Antichristians that Antichrist should procure more Votes against Antichristians and Christ to procure any Votes though fewer for them And it is but another evasion whereby he here putteth off Augustines speech as if it were but a Rhetoricall evasion Whereas indeed the weight of the speech lyeth not in the Rhetorick which is little or none but in the Logick in an Argument taken from the Excellency of the soule above the body and thence inferring the equity of killing the bodies of such as kill the soules of Gods people and the iniquity of such as think this unequall But to weaken the force of
the Church be not nursed with poison in stead of milke And in so doing they keepe the first Table Reforme the Church judge in causes Ecclesiasticall Againe If the the same Princes shall bow down to the Church with their faces towards the earth and lick the dust of her feet as the same Text expresseth then they being members of the Church shall be subject also to Church-Censure In one word Princes sit on the Bench over the Church in the offensive Government of the Church yet may themselves being members of the Church be subject to Church-Censure in the offensive Government of themselves against the Rules of the Gospel The Examiner himselfe contesseth that in severall respects He that is a governor may be also a Subject Behold here are severall respects to wit severall objects of Judicature In the Mal-Administration of the Church the Magistrate sitteth as Judge and Governor in the Mal-Administration of a Church-Member-Magistrate contrary to the expresse rules of the Gospel he is subject to the power of Christ in the Church If it be said nay rather The Church is subject to the Magistrate in civill causes and the Magistrate is subject to the Church in spirituall causes I Answer That easeth not the difficulty no more then the other For suppose the Magistrate a Church member live in Incest breake forth into murder and notorious oppression these are all civill causes belonging to the second Table If the Magistrate sit as Judge and supreme Governor in this case then must the Church tolerate him herein to the dishonour of the great Name of Christ to the leavening of the Church and to the perdition of his soule If it be granted that in such a case though civill the Church is bound to deale faithfully with the Magistrate and not to suffer sinne upon him let the like power be granted to the Magistrate to deale faithfully with the Church in the notorious transgressions of the first Table as is granted to the Church to deale with the Magistrate in the notorious transgressions of the second Table and the controversie is ended If any further matter be claimed in making the Supreme Magistrate the Supreme Judge and Governor in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as civill I doe not understand that the Ministers or Churches of Christ are called to acknowledge such a meaning Sure I am the Interpretation of that high stile which godly learned Reynolds made of it in the 10. Chap. of his Conference with Hart It was accepted of the State in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth And the same Interpretation if no more be intended by that stile doth well stand with our defence But wherefore doe I put my Sicle into the Harvest of my Brethren my Brethren who penned that Modell are richly furnished by Christ with ability to defend it I therefore leave it to them whom it cheifly concerneth to maintaine the Truth which themselves have witnessed in that Modell And the Lord Jesus Christ himself the God of Truth who came into the world that he might beare witnesse to the Truth be pleased to beare witnesse from Heaven to his owne Truth and bl … that peace a fraudulent and false peace which the Examiner proclaimeth to all the wayes of falshood in Religion to Heresie in Doctrine to Idolatry in worship to blasphemy of the great Name of God to Pollution and prophanation of all his holy Ordiannces Amen Even So Come Lord Jesus A REPLY TO Mr. VVILLIAMS his EXAMINATION And Answer of the Letters sent to him by JOHN COTTON SUch a Letter to such a purpose I doe remember I wrote unto Mr. Williams about halfe a score yeares agoe But whether this printed Letter be a true Copie thereof or no I doe not know for the Letter being sent so long since and no Copie of it that I can finde reserved by me I can own it no further then I finde the matter and style expressing the judgement which I then had of his cause of Separation and the affection I bare unto his person And for ought I see the Letter doth not unfitly expresse both But how it came to be put in print I cannot imagine Sure I am it was without my privitie and when I heard of it it was to me unwelcome Newes as knowing the truth and weight of Plinies speech Aliud est scribere uni aliud omnibus There be who thinke it was published by Mr. Williams himselfe or by some of his friends who had the Copie from him Which latter might be the more probable because himselfe denieth the publishing of it and it sticketh in my mind that I received many yeares agoe a refutation of it in a brotherly and ingenuous way from a stranger to me but one as I heare well affected to him Mr. Sabine Staresmore To whom I had long agoe returned an Answer but that he did not direct me where my Letter might find him But I doe not suspect Mr. Staresmore nor Mr. Williams himselfe to have published it but rather some other unadvised Christian who having gotten a copie of the Letter tooke more libertie then God alloweth to draw forth a private Admonition to publick notice in a disorderly way But howsoever it was upon the publishing of this Letter Mr. Williams hath taken occasion as is observed by some who are acquainted with the Spirit of the man first to rise up against me the meanest of many in the examining and resuting of that Letter And then as if one Mordecai were too small a morsell to stand forth against all the Churches and Elders in New-England in his Bloudy Tenent And then as if New-England were but an handfull from thence to rise up against the choisest Ornaments of two populous Nations England and Scotland the reverend Assembly of Divines together with the reverend Brethren of the Apology and above them all to addresse himselfe according to his high thoughts to propound Quaeries of high concernment as he calleth them to the High and Honourable Court of Parliament So a Bird of prey affecting to soare aloft getteth first upon the top of a molehill and from thence taketh his rise from Pale to Tree till he have surmounted the highest Mountaines In this apprehension of him they are the more confirmed as having discerned the like frame of Spirit in his former walking amongst us Time was when of all Christian Churches the Churches of New-England were accounted and professed by him to be the most pure and of all the Churches in New-England Salem where himselfe was Teacher to be the most pure But when the Churches of New-England tooke just offence at sundry of his proceedings he first renounced communion with them all and because the Church of Salem refused to joyne with him in such a groundlesse Censure he then renounced communion with Salem also And then fell off from his Ministery and then from all Church-fellowship and then from his Baptisme and was himselfe baptized againe and then from the Lords Supper and