Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	authority_n	church_n	scripture_n	4,231	5	6.1426	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B00820	A briefe replie of Thomas Udall, Gent. to a short memorandum, or shew of answere against his booke intituled: A briefe view of the weake grounds of poperie: by B.C. student in diuinitie.	Udall, Thomas.	1609 (1609)	STC 24508.3; ESTC S95630	21,665	59

Boniface the Arch-bishop of Mentz Hosius Eckius and others Against which Master B. C. reasoneth thus If Cardinall Cusanus neuer writ any such booke then there is no such blasphemie But Cardinall Cusanus neuer writ any such booke Ergo there is no such blasphemie I denie the consequence of the proposition though Master B. C. would insinuate by the question and answere That there had béene no other proofe to iustifie my accusation but that of the Cardinals saying But where is this blasphemie conteined In a Booke as he telleth vs of Cardinall Cusanus which is intituled De Authoritate c. Of the Authoritie c. What In that booke onely And not also in diuers other places and authors Why are all those omitted Why is this one singled out of the heard Surely because this seemed likely to admit some cauill they were out of daunger But is it a iust difference whether the blasphemie be in the Title of the Booke or in the booke it selfe For albeit it were not in the title of the booke as both Bishop Iewell and Doctor Downam affirme it is yet it is in the booke of his Epistles as I haue shewed in the Preface And to conuince euidently this blasphemie of the Cardinals I will shew once againe The Blasphemie mainteined is that they were to receiue the Communion in both kindes according to the Scriptures against which the Cardinall opposeth himselfe in diuers places of his Epistles and for the iustifying of his assertion he vrgeth these words as I haue set them downe in the Preface It is no maruaile saith he though the practise of the Church Nicola Cusa ad Bohem Epist 7 expound the Scriptures at one time one way and at another time another way For the vnderstanding or sense of the Scriptures runneth with the practise and that sense agreeing with the practise is the quickning spirit And a litle after he concludes And therefore the Scriptures follow the Church but contrariwise the Church followeth not the Scriptures Now that which precedes in authoritie is aboue that which followes and so the Church by their diuinity is auouched to bee aboue the Scriptures And if the Church follow not the Scriptures it is euident if God and his word be both one That he that is not with the Scripture is against it And so the matter of the Epistle is all one with that title of the authoritie of the Church and Councel aboue and against the Scriptures though the Epistle it selfe be not so intituled And that you may know this opinion or blasphemie is not peculiar to the Cardinall or to one Papist onely Eckius in his Enchiridion of the authoritie of the Church Answ the third hath set down that this position The Scripture is greater then the authoritie of the Church is to bee reputed amongst hereticall assertions and that the contrary proposition is Catholique And this blasphemie of theirs is so generall that you shall find this sentence often inserted in the Common Law The Church is aboue the Scriptures The other place of the Cardinals there noted is this This is the iudgement saith he of all them that thinke rightly that they found the authoritie Ad Bohem. Epist 2. and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authoritie of the Scriptures Now if this bee sound diuinitie then may your proud Clergie assume vnto themselues to bee Lords of the Scriptures For how directly so euer the Scriptures be against them as in this instance of the communion to be had in both kinds it is most directly they may giue it what sense they list yea expound it to day after one fashion and to morrow after another as shall please the Pope and his Clergie which can no way agree with the spirit of God who is alwayes one and the same And if this conuince not the Cardinals blasphemie See the 3. Epistle of the same booke pag. 838. where hee saith When the Church chaungeth her iudgement God also chaungeth his But admit I had failed in this proofe yet had the other testimonies bene sufficient to approoue the truth of my accusation if these and such like may iustly be tearmed blasphemies a Syluest Prier cont Lutheri conclusiones de potest Pap. That indulgences are warranted vnto vs not by the authoritie of the Scriptures but by the authoritie of the Church and Pope of Rome which is greater b Dist 40. C. Si Papa That they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religion from the Pope then from the holy Scripture c Eckius de Eccles That the Scripture is not authenticall but by the authoritie of the Church d Henric. Magist Sacr Pa●atii Romae ad legat Bohem sub Felice pap 1447. That the Pope may change the holy Gospell c. e Vid. Kempnit exam part 1. pag. 47. That the Scripture without the authority of the church is of no better worth then Esopes Fables And because I will bee as charitable to Master B. C. and as full of good wishes though I haue no hope of his conuersion as he is to me I could wish that he would not imploy his time so badly as to colour or iustifie such open and palpable blasphemie And surely would such as read both Popish and Protestants bookes Trie the spirits whether they be of God or no would not the Popish Priests prohibite the reading of our bookes would the Papists therin hold any indifferencie it were not possible that they could be so sedused with Popery B. C. Sect. 3. IN his fourth page thus he writeth Yea Arias Montanus a chiefe Papist in his Hebrew Bible writeth in the forefront and principall leafe of the booke There are addded saith he in this edition the bookes written in Greeke which the Catholike Church following the Canon of the Hebrews reckneth amongst the Apocrypha The true sense of Arias Montanus words is corrupted either by Master Vdall or some other from whom he had them by foysting in diuers of their owne That learned man in the edition of the Hebrew Bible Arituerplae ex officin● Christoph Plaut 1584. with the Latin interlineall interpretation in the Title page saith There are adioyned to this edition the bookes written in Greeke which are called Apocrypha Hee saith not they bee Apocrypha but that they are so called by some that is the Iewes who exclude them from their Hebrew Canon which he had there set foorth That other addition viz. which the Catholike Church following the Canon of the Hebrewes reckoneth amongst the Apocrypha vpon which the force of his charge dependeth are not in Arias Montanus where Master Vdall had them himselfe best knoweth T. V. IT is true that in the fourth page I haue shewed how the Papists dissent from the Fathers both auncient and moderne The reason there may thus be deduced That Church which dissents from the Fathers both antient

A BRIEFE REPLIE OF THOMAS VDALL GENT. To a short MEMORANDVM or shew of Answere against his Booke Intituled A briefe View of the weake Grounds of Poperie by B. C. student in Diuinitie Chrysost in Math. Hom. 19. Qui mendax est neminem putat verum dicere He that is a lyer thinks no man speakes truth Leo Epist 83. ad Palaestinos Ecclesiae nomine armamini et contra Ecclesiam dimicatis You arme your selues with the name of the Church and yet ye fight against the Church LONDON Printed by W. S. for Samuel Macham and are to be sold in Pauls Church yard at the signe of the Bul-head 109. To the Christian Reader GOod Reader It is now more then two yeeres since I published for some speciall respects A little Booke intituled A briefe view of the weake grounds of Poperie Of late there came to my hands A refutation of Master Bels Treatise Intituled the triall of the new Religion and a short view of Thomas Rogers vntrueths with a short Memorandum for T. V. otherwise called Thomas Vdall by one B.C. Student in Diuinitie as he stileth himselfe wherein he presents me with A short sample of such fowle flawes as are in my Booke as he suggesteth VVhich subiect hee minds heereafter to prosecute with a more full hand If his mind chaunge not Or that the happie newes of my Conuersion crosse not his designements Whereof hee seemes so confident that in two places of the three last leaues of his Preface which is all that concernes me in that Tract hee boldly affirmes that hee sees no cause to dispaire of If true zeale of trueth and sauing my soule haue set me a worke Which two principall motiues with a feruent desire I had to withdraw some of my best friends from that Egyptian darkenesse of Popish superstion which to Gods glory is since effected I doe ingenuously confesse to haue bene the sole and only cause of that small Tract But I cannot but maruell vpon what ground or hope this confidence of my conuersion should be so presumed vnlesse it be to gull some of his Popish dependantes with the hope thereof since in this little he hath deliuered hee hath onely excepted against fiue particulars which he hath selected out of seuerall places in my booke And yet if they were all graunted It nothing impeacheth the summe and substance therof but that it may be notwithstanding sound and good inough vnlesse in Master B. C. Logique these be good inferences T. V. hath mistaken or misalleadged some fewe authorities in his Booke Ergo he hath not shewed the weakenesse of the grounds of Popish Religion Ergo the Papists are wrongfully charged with blasphemie Ergo the Scriptures defended by the Papists are not conuinced to bee Apocripha c. But it seemes by Master B. C. proceeding both with mee and others That such is the simplicitie of the Popish vulgar Catholiques that he assures himselfe if he can but conuince a few places among many to be mistaken or misalleaged it is sufficient to perswade them that the whole booke is nothing but lies and vntrueths Albeit they must be very simple That seeing tenne or twelue witnesses produced eight or ten whereof prooue the point directly though two of them faile will not iudge the truth sufficiently approoued especially if the witnesses be without exception And surely he must needes be very well perswaded either of his owne worthinesse or of my insufficiency that doth thus presume of my conuersion without iustifying his own grounds or laying open the weakenesse of those Engines of mine as he phraseth them wherewith he saith I labour so much to vndermine the impregnable grounds of the Catholique Church which grounds are so sufficiently battered and beaten downe by the answere of that learned and Reuerent Minister Master VVootton to A. D. Treatise of faith That it rests not in the power of any Popish Procter euer to repaire them But that I may not hold thee too long in so short a subiect I will truely acquaint thee with such substantiall stuffe as Master B. C. hath gathered as he saith Either for my spirituall profite or the commoditie of other or the common good of both which shall be set downe verbatim with peculiar answere to euery Section in hope that when hee prosecuteth the laying open of the maladies of my Treatise as he tearmeth them I shall receiue the same equitie from him that it may appeare what hee answereth and what hee omits And for the better vnmasking of that which he hath excepted against in my Booke I will endeuour first to deduce my owne reasons and then his answeres thereunto into true forme of Sillogisme That it may be euident to the iudicious that if all wherewith I am charged were granted yet is the summe and substance of my Booke vntouched or vnanswered And may not I pray you his seduced fellowes glory to haue gotten so stout a Champion that can with such dexteritie disspatch three bookes at once And is not this sufficient to discredite all T. V. Booke No doubt it will stay the languishing desire of many Papists that there is now some hope the grounds of their Religion shall be particularly defended and Tho. Vdals Booke wholly confuted though Doctor Norris had it sixe monethes before it was printed and said nothing and that it hath beene now two yeeres since it was published and onely fiue poore places of no consequence at all for the substance pretended to be falsified But I had well hoped that Master B. C. professing himselfe a student in Diuinitie And an accepter of Master Bels Challenge with so many and seuerall coniurations wherewith he vrgeth presseth and prouoketh him to disputation Sect. 18. of B.C. Preface hauing seene in the Preface of my Booke with what earnestnesse I had requested and by so many seuerall reasons vrged to haue had my Booke answered I had well hoped I say That Master B. C. would euen for the merit of winning soules And for the greater glory of that Catholique trueth whereof he so much boasteth haue made a full and perfite answere to the same And not haue wronged the learning and reputation we might haue conceiued him to haue had with such triuiall exceptions But no doubt this is sufficient to perswade some of his credulous crew that the booke is answered And yet if I should charge him with the like exceptions as Master Bell doth and tell him It stands not with the credite of the Catholique cause or Romish Diuines to answere by patches and peeces I must looke to receiue the same answer he hath made to him in this his Preface to vs all That he hopes the good Reader will consider that as he was not bound to meddle with the Pamphlet at all So was it at his choice to leaue what he listed and take what hee pleased especially making open profession of that course An answere no doubt worthy of such a refuter since children where they cannot read skip