principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of ⧠The second Dialogue intituled the waiting for the Councell or the Newtralles Of the reasōs vvhich cause many to desire vvait for a Councel and of the trouble that the difference vvhich is in Christendome in matters of Religion doth bryng to simple and ignoraunt consciences Daniel Timothe D. THou doost well remēber where we left as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell T. Yea in dede D. Will these men tary to beleue in God to serue him and to enquire of his will vntill the tyme that the Councell hath ben holden and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation of that which thou hast said that if they should serue God truly it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof why do they then tary for a Councell T. Bycause they say that in so great diuersitie of opinions as at this present day is in Christendome in matters of Religion they know not whiche to folow in surety For they see that some teache after one sort the others after an other that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions as betwene white and blacke and betwene fire and water That whiche one aloweth an other disaloweth that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine and for true seruice of God an other condempneth it as heresie or els as superstition hypocrisie Idolatrie and Apostasie And besides this ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance great vnderstanding and great authoritie accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side then of the other men heare their discourses men read their writtinges bookes there are goodly reasons of both partes which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures and by all meanes possible In this cause what shal a poore man do whiche feareth to offend God and hath a good desire to serue him accordyng to his wil but he may not wel attain to the knowlege therof bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God the other sayth it is not the will of God ¶ Hovve that the difference that is in Christendome in matters of Religion should not stay men from the diligent enquirie of the vvyl of GOD but shoulde rather prouoke them thereunto T. I Confesse that these differences which are in Christendome engender great trouble in the poore consciences of many but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible of the will of God and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him but they should the more earnestly be moued and prouoked to do it to ridde them selues with as much speede as they myght out of suche troubles For why least they tary in it if they haue any feare of God in what trouble shall they lyue and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate without hauynge some thynge certayne and resolued in my mynde whereunto I myght assuredlye staye T. For thys they require a Councell for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined that there shall bee a generall and a sure determination throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte and may know wherunto to trust D. It semeth vnto me that their hope is very slender if they haue no better hope then this I maye not deny but their desire is good we all ought to desire the same if there were any hope to se it come to passe that with spede for the soner it were that better bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of the soule thē of the body for if the medicine of the body come not in tyme to hym that is sicke that sicke person is not in daūger but onely of his bodely life but if the medicine of y◠soule be to long deferred ther is daūger of eternall death wherfore I do greatly feare that manye doo perish in tarying for those medicines T. There is much to be feared and also to be doubted in this matter ¶ VVhat profite the Churche of God may receaue of Councelles and of theyr issue D. THe Sinodes lawfull Coūcels is one of the best remedies that mē may haue to take away cōtrouersies in religiō it is the remedi wherunto in like cases that Apostles their true successors al that aūciēt church haue oftētimes had their recourse for albeit that the Coūcels haue no authority nor power to giue vnto the churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith but only to hold maintain y◠doctrine which is reueled by the holy Scriptures yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose in so much that they be as publike witnesses vnto it to succor the infirmitie of the simple weake also such as shall come after vs by the confessiō which is made of the same by thē by the publike testificatiō y◠there is declared by the perpetual cōsent of the Church of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end that the aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues better meanes much more meete for such a purpose then we haue at this presēt yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine that in their Coūcels which they desired And such vntowardnes was there that they did alway not onely not apease the differences abolish scismes heresies which troubled the Church but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples it were easy to do but we will not now enter into such matter I will cōtent me for this time to alledge onely touching this matter that testimonie the Gregory Nazianzen which was Master to S. Hierom did giue writting to Procopius of the Coūcels of his tyme whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time if I must nedes sayth he write the truth I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good or rather that they haue more encreased the euil then quenched it Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene touching this matter Which semeth to me somethynge harde for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue hath not ben such as was to be desired yet notwithstandyng Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels
true and Christian can not be made false nor heresie by the authoritie neyther of the Church ne yet of any creature what so euer he be and that which of her nature is false and heresye can not by anye meanes bee made true and Christian no more then God may be the deuill or the deuill God Which thinges the questionarie Doctors them selues are foreced to confesse namely the Doctor Gabriell In senten lib. dist 25 ¶ Hovv the vvord of God doth allovve and authorise it self T. DEclare vnto me I besech thee somewhat more plainly that which thou haste alreadye spoken D. Euen so as I iudge not the sunne to be bryght because that other men iudge it so and that I haue heard so saye but for that he is so of his nature and declareth himselfe such an one by his light and in fine because I can not say the contrary no in dede although I woulde euen in lyke sorte I beleue not in the worde of God ne yet holde it for certayne and true and for the inchaungeable will of God by the authoritie of any man what so euer he bee but because that God who lightneth the eyes and geueth vnderstanding to litle ones Psalm xix hath illumined me by the light of the same hath constrayned me to acknowledge it such as it is and to beleue it and I may not otherwyse do if I be of the children of God and led and gouerned by his spirite For if I be of the children of God God hath geuen me eyes by the meanes of his holy spirite to see this lighte And albeit that I can not see it if God do not geue me eyes to behold it and that he do not open them yet notwithstanding hauing receaued this same of God it can in no wise be shewed but that I muste acknowledge and receaue it I can not heare the voyce of God my father ne yet of Iesus Christ my shepeherd but that I must vnderstande it and follow it if I be of the children of God Iohn 8. 10 and of the sheepe of Christ For he that is of God as Iesus Christe sayeth he heareth the worde of God and the sheepe heare and vnderstande and knowe the voyce of their shepeheard ¶ VVhat goodnes men maye receaue by a good Councell and vvhat euill may happen vnto them by an euill Councell accordinglye as they haue bene instructed in the Christian religion T. I Graunt that all that which thou haste sayd bee true yet because that God will be serued by the ministerie of men to make his voyce to be heard in his Church thou canst not denie but that the Councell may doe much good if it be of God to shewe forth the light of the truth to many which knowe it not nor as yet can see it D. I denie not that but this onely do I saye that if we may haue meanes to be illumined before that tyme we oughte not to haue a pleasure in tarying in our blindnesse vntill that time but ought by all meanes to trauaile to receaue lighte with all speede possible considering that God doth geue vs so many other meanes whereby to receaue it and y◠for those causes which haue bene before alledged T. I do not greatly denie that D. And on the contrary if it so come to passe that the Councell decree any thing against the doctrine of our Lord Iesus Christ as it hath oftentimes come to passe in times passed and as it is plaine that it shall come to passe in the Councell of Trent if the ende do aunswere his beginning if thou hast not bene alreadye well instructed but hast bene nourished in superstition and idolatrye and being in that estate doest trust in men thou art sure that the Councel shall serue thee for no purpose but onely to confirm thee more stronglye in thine errours and continuallye to seduce thee more and more And for so much as the seduction being armed with the apparaunce of the Councell shall haue more authoritie so much shall it be the more daungerous and shall take the deper roote in thy hart But if thou hast beene once well instructed and well resolued thou shalt be thē out of this daunger for that fayth that is founded on Iesus Christ and on his woorde is so firme and stronge that in Math xvi deede all the infernall powers are able to doe nothyng against it ¶ In vvhat thing and hovve farre the good Councells maye bridle the audacitie of the vvicked geue quietnes to men T. ALthough there be greate apparence in that that thou sayest yet notwithstanding it semeth to me that thou hast not wel satisfied min two points wherin a mā might replie For if the Councel conclude in that fauour of the truth it shall be greatlye to purpose for the faythfull to represse to holde with closed mouthes the rebells the wilfull ones the heretikes and the Schismatiks And as touching the other poynt which thou doest prepone concerning the inconuenience that may happen of an euill Councell What answere wouldest thou make to those which doe affirme that the Councell can not erre D. I wil first answere to thy first poynt then after that we wil come to the second If the Coūcell do refrayne make the enemies of the truth to hold their peace yet for all that it can not chaunge their euill hartes but that they wil secretly perseuer in their errours awayting som more mete occasion They wil do as the Arians the other heretiks did who for a time did hold their peace fering to be punished but immediatly as sone as they might finde any fauor they dyd prepared again their horns did more hurt thē before And think not you at al that the papists would do lesse in these our daies if the Councel were lawfull and that their errours were there condemned euē as they do right well deserue and thou mayest well assure thy selfe that if they were the stronger partie they would sée whether partie had the best swordes before they woulde agree And then if they sawe that they coulde not preuayle they woulde reserue them selues vnto a better oportunitie vntill that tyme that they might mete with some Emperours Kinges princes that they myght seduce by whom they myght be maintayned and to finde the meane to holde some other Councell fit for their purpose to deface and abolishe all that euer should haue bene decreed agaynst them in the other For it would be to greate a griefe to my Lords the Prelates and to the pyllers of the church and to their cosins and frendes and to all those that liue by the hyre of fornications and adultryes of the greate whoore of Babilon whiche are made droncken with the venemous wynes of her fornications made of the tree not of the Lordes vine but of Sodome and Gomorre to leaue their fatte kytchin and to renounce their stalle fedde bellyes which is the God the which they
no fayth For fayth may haue none other regard obiect subiect nor foundation but God in Iesus Christ his only truth Yf it haue any other foundation if it be builded vpon men and vpon the opinion that men shall haue of them it shal chaunge as men do and as the opinion doth that men haue conceiued It shall fall when they fall it shall be inconstant variable and subiect to chaunge euen as they are For she shal not be builded vpon Math. xxii i. Pet. ii Ephes ii i. Cor. iii Math. xvi the liuely stone whiche is Iesus Christ and vpon the sure foundacion of the Prophets and Apostles vpon the which the true Church must be builded if it will endure agaynst the gates of hel and the whole hellish power otherwise how may it be a faith For these vices are as contrarie to fayth as is the fire to the water Wherfore such as dwel vpon mē in this sorte and do not discerne of thynges nor proue the spirites whether they be of God or no according to the Coūcell gyuen by Saint Iohn What assurance may they haue Iohn iiii in their consciences Whylest they are at rest and that they be not assayled by temptacions nor wakened by the iudgement of God and that they do haunt among such as are of the same religion that they are of it semeth vnto them that their faith is very sure strong but when they shal find thēselues assailed with diuers temptacions compassed roūde with great daūgers that God shal a litle astoone their cōsciences with his iudgemēt they shall then finde what stay they haue of mē that there is no perfit assuraūce nor true quietnes of cōscience but in the true faith engendred in the hartes of mē by the very persuasion of the word spirite of God And if it should happē that they should be cōuersāt amōg men of an other Religion what would they then do T. Yf they should be in Turckie they would as well receyue the lawes of Mahomet refuse the Christian Religion as the Turckes do for they haue euen the same reasons and argumentes to do it as otherwise they haue to accepte or refuse that whiche they haue already receiued or disalowed They would euē do the lyke if that they were among the Iewes or any other nation whiche should hold any other religion then the Christian D. It is not to be doubted ¶ Of the honor that is devve to good and true teachers in the Churche and of the meane that vve ought to kepe to the ende that vve do gyue neither to much ne yet to little credite to men hovv perillous a thing it is to trust to much to a mans ovvne iudgemente T. IF the matter be as thou sayest to what purpose do the good doctors serue which haue receiued so many excellent giftes of God for the edifying of his Churche D. I say not these thynges to despise or condempne them for we should be to much vnkynde towarde them if we should condempne or despise them considerynge they haue taken so greate payne to make the holy Scriptures more playne and easie vnto vs and that by their laboure wee haue had greate commoditie They haue sweat to delyuer vs from a greate deale of payne and trauayle and haue greatlye holpen vs with their labour and made the way more plaine for vs. Also we should be to outragious against God if that we should despise them blasphemyng the giftes of hys holy spirite whiche he hath bestowed among them Wherefore thincke not that I do alow the iudgement of certaine rashe men or fauoure a nomber of puffed prowde spirites who without any regarde condempne all men esteemyng none but them selues Bycause they haue knowē that the worlde hath bene seduced by gyuyng to much credite to the iudgementes of men and haue bene to lyght of credite not enquiryng of the truth by the witnes of the holy Scriptures they haue gone so farre on the other syde that they are no lesse to be blamed then those whome they do condemne For if it bee perillous to credite to muche the iudgementes of men so is it also daungerous if that we gyue not that credite that we ought to do to the iudgementes of those which gouerne them selues accordyng to the worde of God T. It is a very hard matter to kepe measure and meane and so to do thinckyng to auoyde the one sorte of extremitie and perill that wee fall not more daungerously into the other For if I gyue no credite to the iudgemente of others but will dwell wholly vpon myne owne and vpon my oppinion wherin am I more worthy of prayse then they whō I do condempne Am not I a man as they are D. There is no doubt but if I do folow onely mine owne iudgement fantasie I folow the iudgement of men for I am no God any more then other men are If the others be to be blamed bycause of their ouer muche lightnes negligēce raysh belife follie so should I also feare that I be not subiecte to greater blame through follie pride selfe will false persuasiō of my selfe T. Here is no smal daūger but before all other things we ought to feare least we stand to much in our owne con trust to much to our owne iudgements vnderstanding despising the iudgementes of others to be to much gyuen and wedded to our own willes For this vice is meruellous daungerous is the chief fountain and cause of all heresies and Scismes whiche are the most daungerous pestilences that may happen into the Church D. Therfore haue I sayd these thinges to the ende that we mighte know how to folow that moderation the which S. Augustine hath folowed without giuing more or lesse vnto men then faith Christian charitie may endure yelding alwayes to God to the canonicall Scriptures that honor which we do owe vnto thē taking good hede that we gyue no more to Councels to men then to them what apparēce or shew so euer they haue For they that come to Councels are men And in that they are men they are chaungeable subiecte to errors and vntruth They do conclude accordynge as the spirite is by whom they are gouerned If they be led by the spirit of God they wyll conclude in the fauour of the truth yf they be led by the spirite of error as were the Prophetes of Achab agaynste Miche they will maynetayne and confirme lyes i. King xxii And by these meanes they that shal followe them shall bee in very good case ¶ Of the difference that men ought to put betvvene the doctrine and vvritings of the Apostles and Prophets and of those that came after them and the cause therof T. I Do confesse that those which come to the Councels are men but a man may replye that in a lawfull generall Councell they are guided by the holy Ghost and that he will not suffer them
truth wittingly 14. 15 Of such as do resist the truth and persecute it through ignoraÌ„ce 1516 How that the want of the knowledge of god his truth 15. 17 Of the great care and diligence that is in men 17. 18 Of the diligence that is in men to do euyll 18. 19 Of the vices that make men ignorant of god of his truth 19. 20 Of such as do contemn the knowledge of God 20 21 Of the tru knowlege of god 22. 22 Of the true study of the holy scriptures 23. 23 Of such Christians as are ignoraÌ„t of the word of God 23. 24 How much necessary the study of the word of God is 25. 25 Of the desired ignorance 26. 26 How that the publicatioÌ„ that God hath made of hys word 27. 27 Of the meanes by which god hath and doth declare him selfe dayly to men 27. 28 Of those that cloke their rebellion agaynst the woord and wyll of God 28. 29 Of those whiche coÌ„mit idolatries to their princes 30. 30 Of the offices of good princes and good subiectes 31. 31 How those men obey the deuill not their princes 32. 32 Of lawfull lawes of Christian Princes 33. 33 Of vnfaythful seruantes to Princes of their councels â–ª agaynste God 34. 34 Of the iudgement of the Christian doctrine and by whom it must be reported 35. 35 Of the causes why the Princes shuld enquire of the wil of god at the mouth of his ministers 37. 36 Dishonour done to God by suche as vouchsafe not to enquire of his wyl at the handes of his ministers 38. 37 What meane and order Princes ought to kepe in iudgmeÌ„t of thinges apertaining to religioÌ„ 39. 38 Howe men ought to haue greater care for matters appertayning to religion 41. 39 How that men make more accouÌ„t of their promises then of theyr consciences 42. 40 Of the care that ought to be had to know yâ— way of saluatioÌ„ 44. 41 Admonitions in the holye Scriptures against false Prophetes 45. 42 How great busines letteth yâ— hearing of the word of God 46. 43. Meanes to aduaunce or hinder the busines of men 48. 44. Mockers and haters of the Gospel and wil seme no. 49. 45 Of Epicurians amoÌ„g the Christians their diuersitie 50. 46 Testimonies of Epicurians of Gods prouidence iustice against their false opinions 51. 47 Light of gods worde geuen to meÌ„ the nature of the same 52. 48 The authoritie of holy scripture 53. 49. Diuelish peruersitie of EpicuriaÌ„s their agreement with the doctrine of Mahomet 56. 50 Of mans traditions 57. 51 How we ought not to do yâ— which semeth good onely in our owne sight and opinion 58. 52 Of the workes that are done to a good intent 60. 53 To vnderstand whether god haue ordained sundry religions or no 61. 54 Of the causes of the diuersitie of the positine lawes 62. 55 Of the agreemente of the positiue lawes wyth the Ceremoniall lawes 63. 56 What libertie God hath geuen in the vsage of ceremonies 65. 57. ⧠The second Dialogue OF the reasons which cause manye to desire and wayte for a Councell 68. 1 Of the difference that is in Christendom in matters of religion and what it doth 69. 2 What profite the Church of God may receiue of Councels and of their issues 70. 3 Of the hope that menne may haue of the couÌ„cel in these daies 72. 4 Of the meanes of the enemies of the truth for the maintenance of their kingdoÌ„ false religioÌ„ 73. 5 Of the dauÌ„ger into the which they cast theÌ„selues which atteÌ„d onelye vpon Councels 74. 6 Of christiaÌ„ princes to reforme the Church by meane of a generall â—oâ—â—cell 75. 7 Of 〈◊〉 negligence and want that 〈◊〉 â—he ministers of the church 76. 8 Of the empeachments of men in yâ— reformatioÌ„ of the church 78. 9 How difficulte it is to assemble a lawful CouÌ„cel at this day 79. 10 How the Christians hinder the reformation of the Church 81. 11 What Councel the true christians ought to follow 83. 12 Of such as woulde agree the doctrine of Iesus Christe and that of Antichrist together 84. 13 The Interim maye not be receyued neither into the Churche of christ ne yet of Antichrist 85. 14 Of such christians as be Newters and indifferent 86. 15 For what cause the Interim hath his name of an aduerbe 88. 16 The profite that those that be instructed in Gods word may receiue by the Councels 89. 17 We oght not to be the disciples of meÌ„ but of Iesus Christ 90. 18 The word of God dothe authorise it selfe 92. 19 What goodnes men may receyue of a good CouÌ„cel and what euil of an euil Councel 93. 20 What the good Councels may do to the wycked 94. 21 What frute the church may receue of the lawful Councels 96. 22 What prayse is due to good princes and magistrates 97. 23 Hipocrisy of such as depend vpon meÌ„ in matter of religion 98. 24 How we are disciples of men and how of Iesus Christ 100. 25 Of the nature and vertue of true fayth 101. 26 Of the honor that is due to good true teachers in the church 103. 27 Of the diffâ—rence of the apostles prophets and of those that came after them 105. 28 The Councell of S. Auâ—â—â—â—yne concerning Councels 〈◊〉 â—â—itings of the Fathers 〈…〉 ⧠The third Dialogue intituled The authoritie of Councels OF the assistance of the holy ghost in lawful Councels 109. 1 What is to be desyred in CouÌ„cels those which are most excellent 111. 2 Of the weakenesses which wer in the Councel of Nice 112. 3 Of the contrarieties betwene the bishoppes ministers that haue bene in many aunciente Councels 113. 4 Of the contradictioÌ„s of the popes and their decrees 114. 5 Of the contrarietie of the decrees of many Councels 116. 6 Of the contrarictie of certain couÌ„cels concernyng the difference of meates 118. 7 Of the decrees of the Councels of Constance and Basle touchyng the Lordes supper vnder bothe kyndes 119. 8 Contrarietie in many CouÌ„cels coÌ„cernyng Images 120. 9 Of the Councel of Carthage concerning the Baptisme administred by heretiques 121. 10 OpinioÌ„ of the papists concerning general and particular CouÌ„cels 122. 11 Of the abuses and errors whiche haue ben broght into the church 122. 12 Of those that would haue the prelates of the church to correct the abuses that therin are 124. 13 Thinges of them selues sufficiently resolued without resolution of the Councel 125. 14 The liberty of Christians in reforming abuses 127. 15 The passages which the Papistes alledge to authorise their Councels 129. 16 The holy ghost is not bounde to any kind of persoÌ„ or estate 1â—9 17 Of the asseÌ„bles of yâ— faithful 131. 18 Of the Councels of the hereticks condemning the CouÌ„cels of the faythful 132. 19 The contradicions of the auncieÌ„t Councels declare that the councels may erre 134. 20 No hope for the ChristiaÌ„s to haue a lawful Councel 136. 21 What praiers men ought to make for their
dayes gyuyng vs such meanes introductions to the true vnderstādyng of his most sacred worde as he hath not of many ages done to any nation let vs now therfore call vpon the name of our mercifull and mighty God desiring him to strengthē vs to searche out this truth and then in dede to practise the same in our lyues least that he should in his iustice take that excellent Iewell of his worde from vs and gyue it to a nation that shall bryng forth the fruites therof I hūbly beseche that good God in the bowelles of his mercy for hys Christes sake that he will so direct our lyues that by our good example such as he hath not as yet called to the true knowledge of his woorde may embrace and receyue the same and so profite therin that in the ende we may be all of one sheepe folde vnder the charge of our great shephearde Iesus Christe So be it ⧠The content of the first Dialogue Intituled of the holy Inquisition Dependaunces or the Accessories THe principall ende whereunto I tende in this Dialogue is to procure men to searche and to enquyre of the will of God by such meanes as he hath gyuen vs in his holy worde sacred Scriptures to the end the they may know how to frame gouerne them selues according to the same and that they gyue thē selues to that study before all other thinges in the most diligent and earnest wise that shal be possible for them to do without any delay at al And that they do therof very well consider seyng the great mischiefes and inconueniences into the whiche men may fal for not so doyng and the great profite and commoditie that may come vnto them if they do so diligently employe them selues in the studie therof as they ought to do And for so much as the harte of man is so froward that he will in no wise be gouerned accordyng to the rule of the will and worde of God and yet for all that he will in no wise acknowledge and confesse the same openly but searcheth all excuses and colour that may be foūd to couer and hide his hipocrisie and wickednes I do shew playnly a nōber of the principal and chief excuses and coulour that men alledge at this present to hinder and empeach them for cōming to God and to procure their owne health and saluation After that we will speake of such as arme them selues for their defence with their predecessours with antiquitie with the nomber and outward apparance of the world and of those that thinke that their ignoraunce shall excuse thē and of the diuersitie of ignoraunces and of the simplicitie and malice that may be in thē and of their obstinacie and persecutions and of the negligence of all men in matters of Religion I will also speake of those that couer them selues with the obedience that they doe owe to their princes make them their shieldes and their Gods and of the meane that both the princes and people should kepe in suche affaires There shal also be mention made of such as excuse thē selues by meanes of their great busines moreouer of Epicurians and mockers of Gods word Beside these there shal be mention made of suche as are of opinion that all natiōs shal be saued euery one in his law I will also say somwhat of the certayntie of Gods word and of the constancie and assurednes of his will and of the law And afterward in the Dialogues following I wil speake of those that dwel vpon Counsels and wil shewe vpon what Councel we ought to dwell I haue intitled this Dialogue the holy search or enquest bycause that in it mencion is made not onely of that inquisition whiche falsly is called holy the whiche is made by the ministers of Antechrist which wrongfully are called the tryers of the faith and worcke continually against the true Christians that will acknowledge and confesse none other doctrine or Religiō to be Christiā but onely that doctrine whiche Iesus Christe hath taught whiche is the holy enquirie of the knowledge of Gods word necessarie for the soules health of all true Christians It may also be named the Accessories for so muche as I do set forth in this same the shiftes by the whiche men haue bene accustomed to wage the lawe with God and to excuse thē selues and couer their rebellion whiche they haue committed agaynste hys Maiestie The first Dialogue is entituled the holy Inquisition or the Dependaunces Of the blindnesse and disorder that is among men in the matter of Religion and of their Saluation Tymothe Daniell THe more that I do consider the great disorder that is in the world in al estates and chiefly in the matter of Religion the more I do meruell Daniel And truely for my parte I meruell not at all although the disorder be great but I meruell greatly to see that it is no gretter albeit it wer a hard matter to adde any thing therunto Tymothe Why sayest thou so Daniel Bycause that men are so blind and wicked as though they had determinatly conspired agaynst their owne saluation and health and to thrust all euen heauen and earth into disorder confusion ruine they could do no worse then they do Of the Authours and causes of all order and disorder amonge men and of the goodnes of God and of the ingratitude malice of men T. I Would be very glad if thou wouldest declare and opē vnto me somewhat particularly the causes herof D. I first aske thee who is the authour and cause of all good order T. God onely who hath created and made all thinges and hath set an order amongest his creatures suche as he knoweth to be meete for them D. And who is the authour and cause of all disorder T. The deuill aduersarie to God and to all his creatures who continually employeth all his forces to ouerthrow and confound the whole order whiche God hath set amongst his creatures D. Seyng that it is so and that men estraunge them selues from God and flee from his councell as much as in them is and on the contrarie endeuour them withal their power to ioyne them selues to the deuill pleasuryng in nothyng so much as to folowe his councels and therfore doost thou meruell if all be in disorder and extreme confusion Hast thou not rather occasiō much more to wonder at the great goodnes and inestimable suffraunce of God how he can endure so long not onely on so greate an ingratitude but rather so great a furie and rage wherwith men are fylled by the whiche they enforce them by all meanes possible vtterly to destroye them selues and to hasten their destruction and to make it more fearefull and horrible T. It is very true And the whole beyng wel cōsidered it semeth that we haue made a league with Satan our mortal enemy to ayde him to destroy our selues and to hinder the goodnes that God of his grace beyng moued of his owne onely
they do not let by all meanes possible to procure them to persecute that doctrine whiche they oughte chiefely to aduaunce and mayntayne D. It is not greatly to be maruelled at for suche men often tymes deale with princes as doth the fowler with the byrdes that he setteth for hys stale For they establishe such Religion as pleaseth them and semeth vnto them best for theyr purpose to noryshe and mayntayne theyr ambition and theyr bellyes And bycause they want power to authorise their lawes and ordinaunces whereby to mayntayne their abuse they abuse the power and authoritie of the princes in that behalfe trayning them by their wicked and lend councell to do whatsoeuer pleaseth them And as these men do often tymes abuse the ignoraunces and negligences of princes euen so on the other part princes oftentimes abuse the malitious mindes of such men to serue their ambition tyrannics and wicked enterprises Wherfore they do more esteme them beyng such then if they were more honest for they could not endure them if they were honest and would giue them faythfull councell both for the honour of God and the health both of theyr owne soules and of theyr subiectes also bycause they haue a desire to obey God and to set his people in Christian libertie to serue hym nor yet to reforme the Churche according to his worde but rather to peruert the true religion and to make it serue to their purpose euen as Ieroboam did They had rather to haue such Prophetes Priestes as had Ieroboam Achab Iesabell and such as were the Magitiens of Pharao the more clenly therby to resist gods truth theÌ„ to haue the true seruants of God that folow the trace of the true Prophetes Apostles And for so much as both they their people desire such do well deserue to haue such God doth send them euen such as they wish for but it is in his wrath as he threatneth by hys Prophets to the end they may haue the more mete matter dayly to harden theyr hartes more more and more spedyly Esay 3. 29. Ose 5. 7. to hasten theyr destruction ¶ Of the Iudgement of the Christian doctrine and of those by vvhom it must be reported of the princes duety in that behalfe and of the faulte of those that in the same despise the Councell of the seruauntes of God T. I Do feare also that ther be many that trust to much in matters of Religion to those that falsely name themselues to be of the Churche as Prelates and Pastours of the Churche and that it fareth with theÌ„ eueÌ„ as it doth with those that commit wholly their soules and coÌ„sciences into the hands of their Curates and Prelats D. It is certain that in all states there are some that thincke of religion as they do of some scieÌ„ce or handy craft Wherfore when there happeneth any controuersie they think that the knowlege therof doth in no wise appartaine to theÌ„ but that it is ynough for theÌ„ to committe the decidyng of the matter into the handes of the masters of the occupation and theÌ„ to giue their senteÌ„ce accordyng to the reporte that those men shal make and to esteme done and concluded what soeuer they conclude T. It semeth to me that their opinioÌ„ is not very euill For who can better iudge of an art or occupation then the masters therof Wer it not a great presumptioÌ„ for any man to take vpon him to iudge of that whiche he neither vnderstandeth nor knoweth D. This that thou sayest is not all together voyde of apparance but here must we take good hede that no man be deceiued for syth that here is the question whether that men of occupation shall iudge of thinges appertaining to their occupation thou must theÌ„ vnderstand that â—p man can truly iudge of the Christian doctrine but such as are true Christians for no man can vnderstand the heauenly language and the language of God but onely the children of God and those that are heauenly and not earthly Wherfore I do more esteme the iudgement of a simple laborer being one of the elect of god and regenerate by his holy spirite then that of all the Popes Byshops Priestes Philosophers and Doctours whiche shal be infidels or hipocrites for such are not of the occupatioÌ„ wherof we speake And as touching that whiche thou sayest that I do not alowe the councell or acte of a prince if he take in hand to do any thyng of his owne head in matter of Religion without askyng at the mouth of the Lord and takyng aduise couÌ„cell of him by the helpe of those vnto whom he hath gyuen speciall charge to open and make manifeste his will vnto men and to declare his lawe vnto them And for this cause he hath don this honor to his Prophets and true Ministers of his Churche to call them his mouth promising that he will put hie word into their mouth And when the princes or people haue taken in hand any thynge that hath appertained to the honor of God and to their health without enquiring of the Lordes will at the handes of his Prophetes he hath rebuked them bycause they dyd not aske at hys Esay 1. 30. Ose 1. mouth that they haue weaued their cloth but not by his spirite he speaketh to the same purpose by Malachie The lyps of the Prieste do kepe knowledge men shall enquire of Malâ— i. the law at his mouth for he is the aungel and messenger of the Lord of hostes ¶ Of the causes vvhy the princes should enquire of the vvill of God at the mouth of his Ministers and of the giftes of God vvith the vvhiche he endueth his Ministers T. IT semeth vnto me that it is very commendable in a prince chiefly when there is question of the reformatioÌ„ of the Church to enquire in that behalfe of the will of God at the hands of those that are appointed by God to declare the same vnto hym D. The thyng is not onely honest but so necessarie as nothing is more necessarie For albeit the prince be of the wisest of his Realme yet notwithstanding he can not knowe all thyngs but may oftentymes deceaue him selfe euen in his owne deuises Wherefore if he will at any tyme vse the counsell of his counsellers in matters of lesse importauÌ„ce or at the least he is not thought to be wise if that he do contemne it howe much is it more requisite to do it in a matter of so great weight whiche toucheth the honor of God and the health or damnation of euery man and not onely of the person of the prince but also of all hys subiectes T. Suche a matter is well worthy to be considered D. Of the other side it is very lyke that a good Pastour whiche maketh speciall profession of the study of the holy Scriptures and hath commission from God to expouÌ„d them to others is more exercised then others whiche are lesse occupyed in
the same and more occupyed in other affaires chiefly princes whiche are dayly troubled with busines vpon busines from all partes T. That is very true D. This is also to be considered That althoughe God be bound to no sorte of men or estates but that he may distribute his giftes and graces to whom it pleaseth him yet for all that the matter is so that he hath a great regarde to that holy Ministerye whiche he hath ordeyned in hys Churche Wherfore he doth commonly more adorne with his giftes and graces those whiche he hath iustly and lawfully called to the same then any others In like sorte that for the loue of the same he doth bestow often tymes goodly and excelleÌ„t Num. 14. Iohn 11. 18 gifts eueÌ„ vpon those that are euil to the end they shal serue in his Church of the whiche he hath continually a singular care we haue manifest example hereof in BalaaÌ„ and Caiphas for althogh he wer as euil a maÌ„ as the erth doth bear that the gift of god did profit him nothing as touching him selfe yet notwithstanding for the loue of him whose persoÌ„ he doth represeÌ„t as s Iohn doth right wil giue vs to vnderstaÌ„d Iohn xv God to honor this holy ministery ordained in his law hath made him to Prophecie Althoughe he haue reproued that man all his couÌ„sels T. This is worthy to be coÌ„sidered D. Then if princes and al other men do this honor to those that are skilfull in any thing to demaunde their aduise and couÌ„sell and in that behalfe to be gouerned rather by them then by any others they should do great dishonour not onely to the Ministers of God but also to their ministery to God which is auctor therof if they esteme theÌ„ lesse in their estate and do make lesse accouÌ„pt of their counsell then they do of the counsell of others whiche are not of like price ¶ Of the dishonour that those kynde of men doo vnto God vvhiche doo not vouchesafe to enquire of his vvill at the haÌ„des of his Ministers and vvhat authoritie the Ministerie of the Churche hath ouer all men T. THey would not do them so great honor as did the ancient PagaÌ„s and Idolaters here to fore to their false Prophetes For bycause they did holde them for true Prophetes yet in their error they had thys reuerence towardes God that hardly durst they enterprise any thyng that was of importauÌ„ce chiefly in things that appartained to Religion without inquiringe of the will of their Gods at the handes of their Prophetes D. Thou sayest truth And therefore it should be a great dishonor reproch to those that are Christians if they do not God and his Prophets so great honor at least as did the Pagans and Idolaters to the deuill and his Ministers thincking to honor God and his seruauntes And beside this yf ther were none other reason but onely this which is to wit that God hath willed that his Church should be gouerned by the ministerie of his word which if it wer not but only to obserue the order that God him selfe hath appointed yet is it requisâ—te that all men both great small submit theÌ„ to that holy ministery to that order which god hath established in the same as al the good kinges princes of the people of God haue alwayes done notwithstandyng they haue ben maruelously endued with the giftes of God Was ther euer prince kyng or Prophet more excelleÌ„t then Dauid whiche was both a king and a Prophet T. I thincke not D. Yet notwtstaÌ„ding wheÌ„ he would gyue order for the building of the teÌ„ple for that offices ministeries appartayning to that seruice of God he did take in haÌ„d nothing wtout the aduise of the Prophetes of the Lord namely of NathaÌ„ by 2. Sam. 7 i. Chro. 17. whoÌ„ he vnderstode that the Lords wil was that the teÌ„ple should not builded by him although he had determined and purposed it but by his sonne Salomon In like maner Moses Exod. 1â— that great and excellent Prophete did he contemne the counsell of Iethâ—o his father in law whiche was of farre meaner estate then he ¶ Of the meane and order that princes should kepe in iudgement of thinges appertaining to Religion and to the reformation of the same T. ALl those things do confirme the opinioÌ„ of those that wil coÌ„mit all things yâ— touch Religion to those that are called meÌ„ of the Church without dealing therin theÌ„ selues D. Yf thou diddest wel vnderstaÌ„d me I did not coÌ„clude that princes other men should so addresse theÌ„ to the Ministers of the Church in matters of ReligioÌ„ coÌ„science that they should not deale therin so far as their office should require and to take good hede to what kinde of men they came least that in stede of commyng to the true Prophetes of God and Ministers of Iesus Christe they should addresse them to false Prophetes and Ministers of Antechriste as often tymes it happeneth T. This matter is perillous D. Therefore as those men are greatly to be blamed that make none accoumpt of the true Ministers of God and of hys Churche but wyll gouerne the Churche and determine of those thynges which appertayne to the reformation of the same folowing their own fantasie and opinion or els as though they had to determine of some worldly policie euen so on the contrarie part these kinde of men are greatly to be blamed whiche will not deale in it at all but suffer others to determine of it euen as it pleaseth them and are ready to execute that whiche others shall appoynte without hauynge any consideration of the thynge them selues But euen as shall please the others without due examynyng and vnderstandynge what they do For as the firste sorte vsurpe a greate tyranny ouer the Churche and ouer the Ministerie of the same lyke vnto that of the Antichriste who hath plucked to hym selfe the authoritie to dispose of the Churche at hys pleasure in lyke maner this laste sorte do wronge to them selues and do frame and establishe a derye daungerous tyrannye both agaynst them selues agaynste the whole Church and do confirme Antechriste in the possession whiche he hathe all ready vsurped ouer them For albeit that a iudge before he gyue sentence and before he wyll execute the same do aske the aduise and counsell of hys assistauntes yet doth he not gyue hys iudgemente accordynge to theyr sentences vntil he haue wel examined and vnderstood them Otherwise he should put him selfe in greate daunger and hys office should not be greatly differyng from the office of a hange man For the hange man doth not assiste in the counsell of the iudges he gyueth no sentence he hath no voyce nor medleth with theyr processe or causes of those that are delyuered into hys handes he hath nothing to do but only to execute that which is gyuen hym in charge But a iudge hathe farre other authoritie and greater charge
moste vertuous personages that euer the earth dyd beare and that of so greate an accorde and perpetuall consente and all readye by so longe a tyme euen from the begynnyng of the worlde by continuall succession T. Thou alledgest here great matters of great weighte to approue that whiche thou haste declared D. Yea but I haue not yet touched the principall to witte that the verye Sonne of God whiche is the true woorde the Image the lyghte and bryghtnesse of the Iohn 1. Heb. i. glorye of God hath beene sente vnto vs from the bosome of the Father to declare and confyrme the same the more dwellyng amonge men in the true nature and shape of man Also we haue here no small testimonye that thys doctryne is of God in that the deuill dyd neuer make so longe and cruell warres agaynste any doctryne what so euer it was as hee hath agaynste thys and in that it hath beene alwayes so miraculouslye conserued by the singulare prouidence and power of God agaynste all the assaultes of the deuill and that God hath punyshed wyth horrible plagues those that haue stoode vppe agaynste the same As the examples of all ages doe ryghte well witnesse What shall we also saye in that it hath beene approued and ratifyed so myghtely by so manye signes and myracles which coulde in no wise bee done but by the onely power of God and also by the bloude death and confession of so manye Martyrs and confessours which are in number infinite T. If euer God dyd speake or if euer he dyd shewe himselfe to men to deliuer vnto them anye kinde of doctryne there is none other doctryne that we maye assuredlye beleue to bee of God but onely thys doctryne of the which thou haste nowe spoken And therefore we are fullye resolued that GOD hath shewed himselfe to men and that he hath reuealed vnto them the doctryne of saluation For if the kinges and princes of the earthe yea the moste barbarous brute and cruell men of the earth dyd well knowe that men coulde not lyue wythoute lawes but were constrayned to make lawes and to submitte them selues knowing the same to bee verye necessarye for the conseruation of mankynde and common policie doe wee thincke that GOD the soueraigne kynge and prince of euerye creature who is himselfe the lawe to all would leaue men withoute a lawe and hys people withoute geuyng them an order howe to lyue Hee that hath geuen a lawe to all hys other creatures woulde hee leaue man which is the chiefe of his workes among all the visible creatures and he whom he hath appoynted prince and ruler ouer them to be without lawe and direction D. Who can thinke the contrarye if he be not more beastlye then the very beastes T. Wherfore for my part I do conclude that this same whereof we haue spoken is the true lawe and doctrine of God and that there is none other but that all others must be gouerned by thys onely lawe and to reiecte all such as are not agreing with thys ¶ Of the moste deuely she peruersitie of the Epicurians and hovve they doe agree vvith the doctrine of Mahomet vvho is of opinion that all men shall bee saued in theyr ovvne lavve D. THou doest conclude very wel but the Epicurians of whom we speake will not so easely agree to our sayinges For it is harde to satisfye such as do delyte to mocke God and to make warres agaynst hym and to perswade in matters of religion such as desire to liue without religigion And in deede such swyne are not worthye to be disputed with in such a matter for so muche as in the same they declare them selues to be more beastly then the brute beastes and that they denie the foundation which the deuills them selues are compelled to confesse for they doubte not at all but that there is one God and one Lord Iesus Christ whoÌ„ they feare and stand in awe of And euen as those reasons which we haue alreadye alledged are sufficient for all such as feare God and are tractable and not contentions euen so are they sufficient to ouerthrowe and treade downe the errour of them that do affyrme that euery man shall be saued in hys owne lawe thys proposition shoulde be true if Iames. ii Met. 8 Mark v euery man dyd embrace the lawe of God this poynte is an article of the lawe of Mahomet because that he doth imagine that God hath geuen diuerse lawes vnto men in diuerse tymes and in diuerse places according to the diuersitie of the people and nations wherefore he doth conclude that euery nation shall bee saued in obseruyng that lawe and forme of religion that he hath receaued of God In the which although he do moste filthilye erre yet notwithstanding he hath more reason then these men of whom we speake whiche accepte for a lawe and religion all that euer any of them doth inuent and imagine of his own braynes ¶ Of mans traditions and of the rule vvhich is set before vs in the holy Scriptures of all religion and doctrine T. THey thinke also because they haue receaued these thinges of their fathers that the same which they followe is the lawe and religion which God hath ordeyned D. Yea but there are of them that doe well knowe the contrary and are well assured that they embrace many things which are inuented by men wherfore if they will attribute so great worthines to the traditions of men as to that law and doctrine which God himselfe hath geuen and reueled by his Patriarches Prophets and Apostles and chiefly by Iesus Christ his onely sonne our Lord we shal neuer haue ende of geuing lawes nor shall we haue any thing whereunto we may assuredly trust There shal bee no difference betwene God and man betwene the maister and the seruaunt for euery man shall be a lawe maker And Sathan may continually by this meanes spread abroad what doctrine so euer shall please him and vouch it to be the doctrine of God And then in vayne hath God geuen hys lawe and word by his Patriarches Prophets and Apostles and especiallye by his owne sonne Iesus Christ In vayne should he haue forbidden to adde anye thing to it or to diminishe it Exod. 20 Heb. 1. Gal iii. Acte vii Deut 4 1â— Pâ—oâ—â— xxx or ells to receaue anye other doctrine no although it were brought in dede by the Aungels of heauen Wherefore if he will that we geue suche honour vnto that woorde which hath ben once reuealed by the Patriarches Prophets and Apostles and by Iesus Christe our onely Lorde that the verye doctrince of the Aungells shall bee examined by thys rule doe we then thinke that he will geue more power to man ouer hys worde then to Aungells To what ende doe all the admonitions serue whiche are geuen vs for to beware Deut. xiii Mat. 7. Actes xx Roma xvi i. Iohn iiii of false Prophets to shonne those that ar heretiques and to proue the