Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	apostle_n	church_n	doctrine_n	4,033	5	6.2595	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A38090	Antapologia, or, A full answer to the Apologeticall narration of Mr. Goodwin, Mr. Nye, Mr. Sympson, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Bridge, members of the Assembly of Divines wherein is handled many of the controversies of these times, viz. ... : humbly also submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament / by Thomas Edwards ...	Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647.	1644 (1644)	Wing E223; ESTC R1672	272,405	322

only and the highest powers can they alwayes heare or attend unto through the many great businesses of State affaires all the differences scandals schismes that both in particular Churches and betweene Churches will fall out in a Kingdome or Nation in this way of non-communion and protestation against one another especially in Independent Churches where people make Churches and Ministers in that way they doe and have no fixed rules nor certaine way I warrant the supreame Magistrate and higher Powers Kings and Parliaments shall have something to doe to back the sentence of non-communion and to heare all causes and differences But if you understand the inferiors also Majors Bailiffs c. I represent it to you what fit judges most of them are to judge and determine of such difficult Ecclesiasticall causes in heresies schismes scandals c. which fall out amongst the Ministers of Churches and between Churches themselves Againe If you understand the Magistrate indefinitely and obsolutely any Magistrate though Heathen Popish Arrian as Mr Robinson doth in his Apologie and I find it in your manuscripts and principles that you take it so judge then in your selves if the Church hath not remedies among themselves how fit are they who understand not Christian religion nor the doctrines according to godlinesse to judge of the great differences between Churches and to assist the sentence of non-communion against Churches if the Apostle Paul reproved the Corinthians so in 1 Cor. 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. for cariying matters from the Church even the smallest matters the things that pertained to this life unto unbeleevers how would he blame the carrying of things spirituall and Ecclesiasticall unto Heathen from the Ministers of the Church or doe you understand that there shall be Courts of civill Judicature to appeale unto c. then there must be certaine Laws and rules agreed upon as for particular Churches so between the Churches according to which they must proceed to back the sentence of non-communion and protestation c. which yet you practise not Now the many inconveniences that would come of such Courts you may easily fore-see so that this is not like to be an effectuall remedy 6. What shall be done in case there be no Magistrates at all to take any notice in matters of Religion and Church government but leave Churches to themselves in that as it was with you in Holland there were no Magistrates medled with the government and order of your Churches nor none to have recourse unto or to backe the sentence of Non-communion you being in a place and State where no outward violence or any other externall authoritie either civill or Ecclesiasticall would have enforced you what shall in this case supply the defect of Excommunication and of an Ecclesiasticall authoritative power Hath not the wisdome of Christ provided remedies in the Church for all the internall necessities of the Church and constituted it a perfect bodie within it selfe 7. Whether can it be rationally and probably thought that in an ordinary way the having recourse unto the Magistrate though orthodox and the submitting to his particular cognizance and examination of such causes with his backing the sentence of Non-communion in Ecclesiasticall causes in cases of sinnes errours differences that arise in Churches should be as effectuall and sufficient a remedie as the way of Classes and Synods and that the Magistrates interposing their authoritie and power of another nature will be as good as the Authoritative Presbyteriall Governement in all the subordinations and proceedings of it Now that 't is not probable it should be or that it should serve in stead of Synods and Classes take these probable and rationall grounds 1. All wanton wits and erroneous spirits all your Sectaries and Novelists are rather for this way then for Synods and Classes though most of them would have neither to meddle at all in matters of Religion as the Socinians Anabaptists c. Thus the Arminians were against Classes and Synods and all for the power of Magistrates and it was their chiefe Engine by which in those sad daies of the Netherlands they encreased their partie and came to such a height Sectaries hope that if they can decline the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies they sha'l what by flatterie and what by delay through other great businesses of State and what by sophismes and fallacies and what from principles of policie in many States-men and what by friends c. effect that which they have no hopes at all by Ecclesiasticall Assemblies they know the Presbyteries and Synods are able to discover their fallacies answer their arguments will mind those businesses wholly are not to be wrought upon by State principles c. Now if in experience and reason this way were as powerfull to reduce a Church or Churches from schisme and heresie they would never be so much for this way rather then Presbyterie 2. Naturall reason dictates that they are best able and fittest to judge and resolve of things who doe above others give themselves to the studie and profession of those things as Physitians can best judge of wholesome meats and diseases and Lawyers of the lawes and differences arising in them a Counsell of Warre of difficult cases and points in warre And therefore in things that belong to the spirituall good of the soule and the Church the Ministers of the Church are most likely to resolve and to remedie things Can it ordinarily be expected that the Magistrate should in matter of doctrine and opinion in matters of schisme and in matters of worthinesse and abilities of Ministers and in many cases that arise be able to judge and determine matters as the Ministers and Pastours of the Church 3. Those who have most time and leisure to attend a worke and businesse to sift into it to heare all that can be said and can mind it they being able and understanding are likeliest to determine best and bring things to a good end we see in experience that able and honest men through multitudes of businesse delay long slubber over businesses and cannot doe things so effectually as they ought and seldome prove good Arbitratours in difficult intricate cases Now Magistrates through many great and necessarie businesses of State having large dominions cannot so well attend as the Classes and Synods to heare and examine all the differences scandals schismes c. that doe and may arise both in Churches and betweene Churches especially as would fall out in the Independent way and particularly in this way of submission Non-communion and mutuall Protestation but matters would be delayed and neglected or escape wholly or be hudled up 4. To these I might adde as followes that the Magistrate through his just greatnesse would not know the spirits and dispositions of Ministers people nor of other matters so well as the Ministers who live among them and converse with one another frequently neither would there be that easinesse of accesse to the Magistrates and great persons as

all under his power and charge to worship God upon which learned Divines as Zanchius excellently show the dutie of Magistrates in reference to commanding and providing that their people shall worship God according to his will Rom. 13. 4. Ephes. 5. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Iohn 11. v. Revel 〈◊〉 20. with many other places in Scripture of removing away of evill and of not consenting to evill c the Parliament is bound to establish and to command obedience to that Reformation which is judged most agreeable to the Word and to suppresse and hinder all other It was excellently done by the Parliament to call together so many able godly and Orthodox Divines to debate and find out the mind and will of God for Doctrine Worship and Discipline and to give libertie to men of different judgements to bring in their grounds and after all wayes of enquiry and searching into truth and a Modell drawn up for them upon good grounds being satisfied 't is their dutie by their power and authoritie to bind men to the decrees of the Assembly and not to tolerate any other Doctrines Churches Worship or Government to be set up and exercised you ought not to suffer the weake to be destroyed nor the people to be drawn away by every wind of doctrine but when once upon good grounds the Reformation is concluded you must defend it against troublesome and turbulent spirits and in so doing God will be with you and subdue the people under you whereas if to please some people you suffer them to enjoy their own way God will not be well pleased with it neither can you answer it unto God You may lawfully nay ye ought in that which is good to compell men though they pretend conscience shall the errours of other mens consciences hindr you from yeelding that service which God requiteth of you may a Parliament displease God to please men or may they be please●…s of other mens sins and wink at evill to content some persons No Parliaments in making lawes for Religion must depend on the will of God ●…led in his Word in the best and 〈◊〉 wayes communicated to them and not upon the consciences of some people 〈◊〉 The Toleration desired is against the solemne League and Covenant for Reformation taken by the Parliament and the Kingdome of England and Scotland and 〈◊〉 be co●…ed to without 〈◊〉 of that Oath and Covenant so that the Apologie and motion for a Toleration comes ●…o late the doore is shut against it the Kingdomes hands are bound so that if such a Toleration were not in it●… selfe unlawfull and against the dutie of the Magistrate yet now because of the Oath and Covenant 't is unlawfull so that whatever might have been granted before cannot now lest the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant-breaking Now a●… Toleration and this moving for a Toleration by the Apologists is expresly against these branches of the Covenant 1. Against that clause in the first branch of endeavouring the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ixeland in Doctrine Worship Government and Discipline according to the Example of the best Reformed Churches now in this Petition to both Houses you would be exempted from the Reformation of the best Reformed Churches so that unlesse you understand the Brownists New-England or your own Churches to be the best Reformed you have broken your Covenant but though you may understand it so and may be tooke the Covenant in that sense yet I suppose you cannot think the Pa●…liament whom you s●… to for a Toleration took the best Reformed Churches in that acception but for the Reformed Churches so called and commonly knowne as of France c. so that their granting a Toleration would be against this clause of the best Reformed Churches 〈◊〉 't is expresly against another clause in the firs●… branch And sh●…ll endeavou●… to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformity in Religion Confession of Faith Forme of Church Government Directory so●… Worship and Catechi●…ing Now if the Parliament hath covenanted so how can it grant a Toleration of so different a Forme of Church Government and Worship as the Independent way is from the Presbyteriall and how can you be excused from explicite formall breach of Covenant in this part of your Apologie having sworne and sub●…bed to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in these three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion who in stead of so labouring and endeavouring or ever so much as trying whether you with the rest of the Churches may not be brought into a neere Conjunction and Uniformitie just before the time the Assembly was comming to fall upon these points in difference to put out this Apologie and to move for a Toleration before hearing what could be said to you for satisfaction or ever debating the points in the Assembly Is this to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion c. before so much as ever debating points to conclude magisterially as you doe in pages 22. and 24. against the Reformed Churches and to desire an exemption from Conjunction and Uniformitie with the rest of the Churches in this Kingdome 3. 'T is against that clause in the second branch that we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme and whatever shall be found contrary to found doctrine and the power of Godlinesse lest we partake in other mens sins Now that which you move for is schisme and contrary to sound Doctrine the Church-way being a schisme besides many of your Church Principles are against sound Doctrine and the power of Godlinesse as that in your Apologie about the subject of Excommunication as that of a few people having power to joyne together and set up a Church and chuse what Ministers they will as that of the Independencie of particular Congregations from any Authenitative power c. so that the Parliament in the midst of their Reformation and blessed Conjunction according to the Word of God with the Reformed Churches should in allowing you a Toleration suffer a formall schisme both in Worship and Government in the midst of these Kingdomes 4ly This Toleration sued for is against a part of the fourth branch endeavouring the discovery of such as have been evill Instruments by hindring Reformation of Religion or making any faction or parties amongst the people contrary to this League and Covenant Now the Parliament is bound by this against all persons and things which hinder the Reformation and makes any faction or parties amongst the people now whether a Toleration granted yea but moved for would not hinder the Reformation of Religion and make Faction and parties amongst the people let it be considered I confesse I wonder how the Apologists ever took this Covenant or having taken

issue and all is resolved into the body of the Congregation and their power from first to last amongst the Apologists as well as amongst the Brownists though here 't is carried in a fairer way as fine wits must doe and that they may have something to say wherein they are not Brownists but of this the Reader may see more in this Answer page 204 205 206. 8. The Presbyteriall way the order and governme●… of the reformed Churches hath been countenanced from Heaven and blessed from above with the preservation of the truth and unitie of Religion against heresies and errors in Doctrine Idolatry and corruption in worship and all sorts of sects and ●…chisme it hath been free of those mischiefes and evills of errors and divisions which the Independent Churches have swarmed with and that through a long tract of time and the experience of almost a hundred yeeres together In reformed Churches where this government hath been set up and hath had its free way and exercise even where it hath wanted the advantages of the Magistrate being a member of the Church and hath had many disadvantages in regard of the spirits and dispositions of the people with many temptations to errors yet it hath in those places kept out errors and schismes preserved puritie of doctrine and peace For example in the Churches of France it is evident by many yeeres experiences though their Princes be popish and they live in the midst of Papists yet by Gods blessing upon their government and order their Churches have been and are pure in doctrine few or none falling to Popery Arminianisme or to sects and sch●…smes and when any errors doe arise amongst them yet by meanes of that governement they are soone suppressed and prevented from spreading It was the observation of Beza in his time of the French Churches though France was grievously afflicted and oppressed by many yet for that which concerned Religion it was free from all troubles and stirrs And yet notwithstanding there was nothing wanting of all those things by which Satan might easily draw and move the French to all kind of troubles for example an inbred naturall lightnesse in that Nation wits very ready for subtiltie and ●…iceties the mind of the Magistrates intent also upon it that all manner of wayes the Christian Churches might destroy themselves with their inward dissentions notwithstanding all this no strength of the adversaries hitherto no not in the midst of all the tempests of warre hath been able to beare thorough the most strong bu●…warke and wall of Ecclesiasticall discipline For the Church of Scotland I have heard it often and that from good hands that during the free use and exercise of Presbyteriall government there never any heresie or schisme tooke the third man but by meanes of that governement it hath been pul'd up at first and either the particular person broaching the errour recovered or however prevented before three have beene infected with it Beza in his first Epistle gives a notable testimony to this government by the blessing of God upon it in the City of Geneva Geneva be it spoken without offence hath rather escaped then overcome all the inward tempests against Religion so great as no City perhaps under Heaven hath done the like it never yet felt any differences nor contentions of the Pastors amongst themselves in points of doctrine 't is free from the furies of the Anabaptists the contagion of the Libertines the blasphemies of Servetians a City otherwise open to all strangers and comers and for that cause very fit and subject to the wiles of Satan But truly it owes all this by Gods blessing to the Ecclesiasticall discipline duely and diligently observed which also now causes that all sorts almost out of all nations under Heaven there gathered together in peace and in true liberty of conscience doe willingly accord together The Commissioners of the Church of Scotland tell us that this government hath made the Church of Christ terrible as an army with banners and like a strong and fenced City against which the adversaries have despaired to prevaile but by making a breach in this wall and where they have gained ground or gotten any advantage either the wall hath not been built or being built hath been broken down or not vigilantly kept by the watchmen But there will be objected against this a passage lately printed in a book of Mr Simpsons that there have beene as great defections both of Ministers and people unto errors under Presbyteriall government as under any other as it is cleare in the Low-Countries where so many Ministers and people turned Arminians Papists Socinians I have instanced in severall reformed Churches and showed Gods blessing upon Presbyteriall government here 's only one instance among all the reformed Churches brought against it and to that I shall give these three answers Though the Churches in the Low-Countries are Presbyteriall yet withall ther 's a Toleration of other Churches and government there which is one of the causes of it and hinders Presbyteriall government A Toleration will spoile any Church and government if Presbyteriall government be setled and a Toleration given in this Land that will marre all so that the Parliament may be pleased to take notice by this and observe the difference between those Churches which have no Tolerations as Scotland Geneva and the Low-Countries which grant a Toleration the one are pure in doctrine c. the other makes Ministers and people turne Arminians Socinians c. 2 Answ. There 's another Reason why it may so fall out in the Low-Countries because Presbyteriall government hath not its free course there in Synods but 't is much disturbed over 't is in France Geneva Scotland whereas by their Canons and Constitutions in the Netherlands there should be a Nationall Synod once in three yeeres they have not nor cannot procure one in twenty yeeres and upwards and whereas Provinciall Synods should be yeerely they have them in some Provinces but once in five and seven yeeres besides there are other disturbances in Presbyteriall government which hinders the free course of it in Holland many encroachments are made upon the rights of their Church due to them by vertue of their discipline and heretofore established In a word that Anabaptisticall and Familisticall spirit in many and that corrupt spirit and principles in others with those principles of Toleration doth much check and stop Presbyteriall government from having its perfect worke and bringing forth its full effects The true Reason of so many Ministers and people turning Arminians and Socinians in the Low-Countries was the want of Synods which Arminius and his followers alwayes declined and by flattering the Magistrates kept off for many yeares in which time so many fell whereas if Presbyteriall government had had its course and a Nationall Synod had been called yea but a Provinciall for the Arminians to have answered in at first before it had so much

grace may that be tolerated what think you of many Arminian Tenets some Lutheran opinions Antinomian Doctrines and other dangerous points held by great Schollars as by Brentius Osiander Flaccius Illyricus may not some of these opinions stand with grace and might not some of these have grace and must these now be allowed to be preached in a Kingdome that hath established Articles of Religion and a Confession of Faith and shall such preachers gather people into Churches if all points may be preached and Churches allowed for all Doctrines that are not against fundamentals and that may stand with saving grace there will be a strange face of Protestant Reformed Churches infinite novelties may be broached and great stirs caused in a Kingdome I desire you in your Reply to state your lesser differences and to set downe your Boundaries what and what not and accordingly I shall answer In the meane time from these few hints you and the Reader may see besides the unlawfulnesse there 's difficultie where to fasten a Toleration Now in the close of my discourse against Toleration I take the humble boldnesse to represent to the Honourable Houses of Parliament that t is the Magistrates dutie not to suffer schismes heresies and other errours to grow and increase in the Church for as they are Magistrates they truly serve God whose Ministers they are and kisse the Son in revenging the injuries wantonly committed against God and his truth and in preserving the externall politie of Doctrine and manners one of the great services Princes and Parliament performe to Christ in reference to their great and high calling consists in making Lawes for the observing the Worship and Government of his House and by Lawes prohibiting all other worships and governments And I humbly beseech the Parliament seriously to consider the depths of Satan in this designe of a Toleration how this is now his last plot and designe and by it would undermine and frustrate the whole work of Reformation intended 't is his Master-piece for England and for the effecting of it he comes and moves not in Prelates and Bishops not in furious Anabaptists c. but in holy men excellent Preachers moderate and faire men not for a toleration of heresies and grosse opinions but an allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse this is candidus ille Diabolus as Luther speakes and m●…ridianus Di●…bolus as Iohannes Gersonius an●… B●… expresse it comming under the merits of much suffering and well deserving clad in the white garments of Innocencie and Holinesse In a word could the devill effect a Toleration he would think he had gained well by the Reformation and made a good exchange of the Hierarchie to have a Toleration for it I am con●…ident of it upon serious thoughts and long searching into this point of the evils and mischiefe of a Toleration that if the devill had his choice whether the Hierarchie Ceremonies and Lyturgie should be established in this Kingdome or a Toleration granted he would chuse and preferre a Toleration before them and would willingly part with and give up all those for a Toleration of divers Sects and different Churches To conclude if the way of Independencie be of God and the Apologists can make that good let it be established by the Parliament and let 's all come to that if it be not why then should it be tolerated and why did the Apologists move for a Toleration before that ever it came to be debated and argued in the Assembly And now for a conclusion and closing up this Answer to the Apologeticall Narration I might as some Authors doe in answering Bookes gather together and draw up into one all the maine particulars of the Apologie animadverted upon and put them under certaine heads and ranke them in their severall formes and so present a Synopsis of them to both Houses and the Reader whereby they might have all in their eye at once see much in a little As 1. all the expressions of the high praises of themselves and their owne partie scattered up and downe in the Apologie 2. The Aspersions Depressions Insinuations both open and more secret of the Reformed Churches and of the Assembly 3. The crossings and interfearings of some passages in the book with others 4. The plaine and manifest untruths expressed in many pages 5. All the Reservations and Concealments of matters both of opinions and practises in the Church-way 6. The double doubtfull expressions both in words and matter 7. The mistating of the questions in difference both on their owne side and the Presbyterians stating their owne differences with the lowest and the Reformed Churches at the highest 8. The generall expressions without comming down to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which being deducted and extracted from the Ap●…ie what remain●… behind saving some few argumen●…s hinted but a just testimo●… of the Parliament and Assembly with a 〈◊〉 character of the people and multitude and a brand upon the old separation which pa●… also of the Parliament Assembly People and Separation 〈◊〉 brought in both the praise of 〈◊〉 and the dispraise of the other in reference to the magnifying and commending the more the 〈◊〉 and patience c. of the Apologists but I spare the wise Reader may observe the passages and I have animadverted upon them all along in my Answer I could have made one part of my Answer to this Apologie 〈◊〉 strange though ●…ue paraphrase upon it and andin●… 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 the Narration of themselves for the most part contrary But I shall reserve that with some other things I have yet to say i●… matter of fact till I put out my Rejoynder to their Reply In 〈◊〉 meane 〈◊〉 I shall conclude this Antapologie with ●…rning my 〈…〉 by dissolving your Churches and comming in to us and that you may repent and recall this Apologie I will represent to you the greatnesse of your sin and folly in making the Apologie and it stands in these particulars 1. It was an unseasonable disorderly work for the time and way of it 2. 'T is a Narration full of mentall Reservations high praises of your selves but censuring and scandalizing the Reformed Churches of Christ. 3. There are many untruths in it and that not only where you make naked relations o●… things but where you make professions before God and the world yea ●…here you make serious Invocations of God to a●…est them and men also and all this is done publikely by printing and deliberately and upon a designe to take the more with the people and to make way the better for a ●…oleration 4. There is a breach of the solemne Covenant subscribed by you especially in that clause of the first branch we shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Relegion Confission of Faith and Forme of Church-Government in stead of which before ever you ●…o much as tried and endeavoured it by debating those