object of Faith Fundamentals from not Fundamentals In this sense a Superstructure may be said to be exceeding firme and close joyn'd to a sure foundation but not Fundamental But here his Lordship misconceives or rather misalledges A. C's Argument For it is not as he frames it All points defined are made firme ergo all points defined are Fundamental but thus All points defined are made firme by the full Authority of the Church ergo all points defined are Fundamental And his reason is because when any thing is made firme by the full Authority of the Church it is so firme that it cannot be denyed without shaking the whole foundation of Religion and consequently is Fundamental 6. But the Bishop proceeds further and makes this Argument Whatsoever is Fundamental in the Faith is Fundamental to the Church which is one by the unity of Faith Therefore if every thing defined by the Church be Fundamental in the Faith then the Churches Definition is the Churches foundation and so upon the matter the Church can lay her own foundation and then the Church must be in her absolute and perfect being before so much as her foundation is laid This Argument will lose all its force by putting the Reader in minde of the Distinction between Fundamentals and not Fundamentals which we admitted in the material object of Faith for if this be reflected on there will be a foundation for the Church without supposing her to be in perfect being before her foundation be laid We have often declared what we understood by Fundamental viz. That to which we cannot refuse our assent by denying or doubting of it when it is proposed to us by the Church as a matter of Faith without damnation and without destroying the formal object of Faith and without making our selves during that deliberate doubting or denying uncapable of believing any thing with Divine and Supernatural Faith For surely whatever is of this nature must needs be Fundamental in Religion So that we admit the distinction of Fundamentals and not Fundamentals in respect of the material object of Faith but not in respect of the formal that is as we have often said some matters of Faith are more universally necessary to be expresly known and believed by all then others and yet the Authority revealing that is God and declaring them infallibly to be revealed that is the Church is truly Fundamental in both As in the Scripture it self this Text John 1. And God was the word according to the matter it contains viz. the Divinity of our Saviour is a Fundamental point universally to be known and believed expresly to Salvation and that St. Paul left his Cloak at Troas according to the matter it contains is no Fundamental point nor of any necessity to Salvation to be universally known and believed expresly yet the formal object revealing both these truths being the Authority of the Holy Ghost is equally Fundamental in both and doubtless if any one to whom it is as clearly propounded to be affirmed in Scripture that St. Paul left his Cloak at Troas as that it is affirmed in Scripture that the word was God should yet deny or doubt of the first he could neither be saved so long as he remained in that misbelief nor believe the second with divine infallible Faith as all Christians both Catholiques and Protestants must grant Had this been well considered by his Lordship we should not have been forced to so frequent repetitions of the same Doctrine The Bishop thinks he has got a great advantage by pressing A. C. to this That the Churches Definition is the Churches Foundation But what absurdity is it to grant that the Definition of the Church teaching is the foundation of the Church taught or the Definition of the Church representative is the foundation of the Church diffusive who can doubt but the Pastours in all ages preserving Christian people from being carried away with every winde of Doctrine Ephes. 4. are a foundation to them of constancy in Doctrine were not the Apostles in their times who were Ecclesia docens by their Doctrine and Decrees a foundation to the Church which was taught by them Doth not St. Paul expresly affirm it Superaedificati supra fundamentum Apostolorum c. Did not the Bishop just now pag. 34. except the Apostles as having in their Definitions more Authority then the Church had after their times yea even so much as was sufficient to make their Definitions Fundamental and the opposing of them destructive of the Foundation of Religion their Authority being truly Divine which he sayes that of the Church after them was not Now this doctrine of the Bishop supposed I urge his own Argument against himself thus Whatever is Fundamental in the Faith is Fundamental to the Church which is one by the unity of Faith Therefore if every thing Defined by the Church in the time of the Apostles be Fundamental in the Faith then the Churches Definition in the Apostles time is the Churches foundation and so upon the matter the Church in their time could lay her own foundation and then the Church must have been in absolute and perfect being before so much as her foundation was laid Who sees not here how the Bishop fights against himself with his own weapons and destroyes his own Positions by his own Arguments And whatever may be answered for him will satisfie his Argument in defence of us Now the answer is plain to any one who hath his eyes open for the Prime foundation of the Church are the Doctrines delivered by our Saviour and inspired by the Holy Ghost to the Apostles whereby it took the first being of a Church and the Prime foundation to the insuing Church after the Apostles is the most certain Assistance of the Holy Ghost promised by our Saviour to his Church By these two Prime foundations the Church is in being and so continues the Definitions of the Church grounded in these are a secondary foundation whereby Ecclesia docens the Church teaching established upon that promised assistance of the Holy Ghost fundat Ecclesiam doctam founds and establishes in every age the Church taught in the true Faith 7. But what shall we say in defence of A. C whom we finde blamed for these words That not onely the PRIMA CREDIBILIA or prime Articles of Faith but all that which so pertains to Supernatural Divine and Infallible Faith as that thereby Christ doth dwell in our hearts c. is the foundation of the Church The answer is these are not the precise words of A. C. and therefore no wonder if the Bishop easily confute him whom he either mistakes or makes to speak as himself pleases A. C's words are these By the word FUMDAMENTAL is understood not onely the PRIMA CREDIBILIA or Prime Principles which do not depend upon any former grounds for then all the Articles of the Creed were not as the Bishop and Dr. White say they are FUNDAMENTAL points but
instructed his Apostles touching all points absolutely necessary to Salvation especially considering what himself professeth in his Prayer for them to the Father John 17. 8 14. I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me and they have received them c Can those words in any Protestants opinion signifie less then all points absolutely necessary to Salvation His Lordship here stumbles in the plain way endeavouring to impose this absurd Disjunctive upon his Reader viz. that all Truth must either signifie simply All whatsoever matter of Fact as well as Faith or be restrained to Truths absolutely necessary to Salvation that is without which no man can in any circumstance be saved the apparent falsity whereof a man half blinde may perceive it being in effect to say that either All men are wise and learned or none but Socrates and Plato To as little purpose is his other limitation viz. that a Councill is then onely Infallible when it suffers it self to be led by the Blessed Spirit by the word of God By this again it seems that in things absolutely necessary to Salvation a General Council is not absolutely Infallible but may possibly refuse to be led by the Spirit and Word of God and consequently fall into Fundamental Errour in which the Bishop is not constant to himself professing the contrary when it makes for his turn But if it may so erre what a sad condition might the whole Church be in since what a General Council teaches is as obligatory to the whole Church as what the Parliament enacts is obligatory to the whole Kingdom His last shift to evade the force of those words leading into All Truth is that the promise of Assistance was neither so absolute nor in such manner to the whole Church as it was to the Apostles nor directly to a Council at all Who contends it was who makes it a question whether the promised Assistance of the Holy Ghost were not more absolutely and directly intended to the Apostles then to the Church or not more absolutely and directly to the Chureh then to General Councils It sufficeth us if it were in any sort truly and really intended to them all and that so it was the very nature of the promise evinceth since otherwise neither the said succeeding Pastours northe Church of their times could infallibly decide any arising Controversies touching the sense of Scriptural Texts which are not onely ambiguous but lyable to damnable Interpretations as the Scripture it self averrs 2 Pet. 3. 16. much less determine any point of Faith not expresly deliver'd in Scripture as many are not But note that to the closing words of this first Text and that for ever the Bishop sayes not any thing The truth is their clearness is not easily eluded To the second proof which is from Matth. 28. 20. Behold I am with you 〈◊〉 unto the end of the world the Bishop answers the Fathers are various in their Exposition and Application of this Text. We grant they are various in words but agreeing in sense and that the same in effect we here plead for The Fathers by the Bishops own Confession understood a presence of Aid and Assistance to support the weakness of the Apostles and their Successours against the Difficulties they should finde for preaching Christ. But are Heresies and the perverse maintainers of them no part of the Difficulties Christs Ministers meet with in preaching his Gospel Sure they are And if this be the Native sense of the words as 't is in the Relatours opinion it follows necessarily that the said Ministers or Preachers of the Gospel have such a presence of Christ promis'd them in this place as effectually inables them to withstand and overcome those Difficulties which in reason cannot be more conveniently effected then by a General Council so assisted Declaring against them But sayes our Adversary few of the Fathers mention Christs presence in Teaching by the Holy Ghost What matters that The reason is because this is but one Special kinde of presence and the Fathers usually in their expositions of Scripture unless some particular occasion carries them to the contrary content themselves to express the general importance of the Sacred Text without descending to particulars And yet some of them as even the Bishop himself observes do expresly interpret this place of Christs presence in teaching by the Holy Ghost But they do not extend it saith he to Infallible Assistance further then the Succeeding Church keeps to the word of the Apostles as the Apostles kept to the guidance of the Spirit No more do we We confess the Succeeding Church could not be Infallible should it depart from or teach contrary to the word of the Apostles no more then the Apostles themselves could have been Infallible had they departed from the guidance of the Spirit But as the Infallibility of the Apostles consisted in their constant adhering to and following the guidance of that Holy Spirit in all matters concerning Faith and Religion so is there and the Fathers teach such a presence of Christ with the Succeeding Church as causeth her in all Definitions of Faith constantly to adhere to the word of the Apostles and as need requires infallibly to expound it all which we have sufficiently prov'd and could it otherwise happen Christ would not be alwayes found so present with his Church as to keep her from incurring ruine by erroneous Doctrines which this his promise must at least imply Lastly whereas Maldonat proves that this kinde of presence by Infallible Teaching is rightly gathered from this Text though not expresly signified by it the Bishop by his mis-translation makes him deny it to be the intention of Christ which learned Authour does not onely assert the Truth of this Exposition but brings in proof of it the testimonies of St. Cyril St. Leo and Salvianus To the Third Matth. 16. 18. touching the Rock on which the Church is founded the Bishop sayes first he dares not lay any other Foundation then Christ. We answer all the Apostles are styl'd Foundations of the Church witness St. Paul who was one of them Eph. 2. 20. Christ indeed was and is the Principal Foundation the Chief corner stone in the Churches building as the Apostle there speaks yet Ministerially and by Authority Derived from Christ not onely the Apostles but the Successours of the chief of them St. Peter may be and are in a true sense Foundations of the Church Secondly the Bishop sayes and he does but say it that St. Peter was onely the first in order whereas the Fathers teach and we have sufficiently prov'd that he was not onely the first in order but in Authority Thirdly he tells us that by the Rock is not meant St. Peters person onely but the Faith which he professed and for this saith he the Fathers come in with a very full consent I answer we pretend not to understand by the Rock
to the doctrine of the other But in the Roman Church and Religion many are sau'd according to the principles which are granted on both sides viz. both by Catholiques and Protestants and in the Protestant Church many are saued only according to the principles and doctrine of Protestants but very few or none according to the doctrine of Catholiques Ergo the Roman Church and Religion is a safer way to Saluation then the Church and religion of Protestants The Maior I'conceiue none will deny The Minor I proue thus In the Catholique Church 't is euident that many beeing to depart out of this life doe receiue the Sacrament of Pennance These according to the doctrine of the Roman Church are saued because by vertue of this Sacrament they receiue the grace of Iustification wherby of sinners they are made the sons of God and Heires of Eternall life nor can they be deny'd to be sau'd according to the doctrine of Protestants seeing they beleeue in Christ their Redeemer they confide in Gods Goodness and mercy for the pardon of their sins they truly repent of them and truly purpose for the future to amend their liues which is all that Protestant doctrine requires to make men partakers of Christs sanctifying Grace and is also necessarily requir'd by Catholiques to make them free subiects for the Sacrament of pennance Who can therfore doubt but that all such persons are saued both according to the doctrine of Catholiques and Protestants too J say who can rationally and with charity doubt but that Catholiques generally speaking beeing taught that Fayth Hope true repentance for sins past and a purpose of amendment are necessary to the due receiuing of the Sacrament of pennance doe not omitt to exercise those acts with all necessary diligence and sincerity especially when they are to prepare themselues against that dreadfull passage to Eternity That they may exercise such acts if they will by the help of Gods ordinary Grace and by exercising them be effectually sau'd the Bishop himselfe cannot deny seeing he grants so much to the Donatists themselues whom he confesses at least to haue been Schismatiques iustly condemn'd by the Orthodox Church and in some respects in greater danger of damnation then wee Romanists His words are these A plaine bonest Donatist hauing as is confessed true Baptisme and holding the Foundation as for ought I know the Donatists did and repenting of what euer was sinne in him and would haue repented of the Schisme had it been know'n to him might be saued Neither will J suppose any other Protestant deny vs the possibility of exercising such acts seeing they all grant that with involuntary errours true Fayth and repentanoe may stand and haue no sufficient reason to thinke that our errours at death are voluntary and willfull or that wee doe willfully omitt any thing that wee beleeue to be necessary for the attaining of Saluation But now according to the doctrine of Catholiques there are very few or none among Protestants that escape damnation or that are 〈◊〉 if they liue and dye out of the Communion of our Church Not that it is a point of our beleese that many Protestants shall be damn'd precisely vpon the account of beeing Heretiques because heresie is an obstinate and willfull errour against Fayth and wee cannot easily much less infallibly determin whose errours are willfull but because there are none or surely but very few amongst them but are guilty of mortall sinne against Gods Commandements and because the ordinary meanes they vse and prescribe is not according to our principles sufficient to expiate and blott out such sinne 'T is well know'n that though Protestants to obtaine Saluation beleeue in Christ trust in his merits and repent of their sins yet they doe it not purely out of a perfect loue of God so as to hate sin aboue all euills meerly as it is an offence against the Diuine Maiestie and to preferre God and his holy Commandements before our selues and all other creatures for this is a very hard and rare act euen amongst the best of Christians but at best vpon inferiour and lower motiues as the manner of most men is to doe viz. in consideration of the Beatitude of Heauen as it is their own particular good or for the auoyding of the paines of Hell as it is their particular and chiefest harme Now according to our doctrine such kinde of repentance as this is no sufficient remedy to blott out sinne vnless it be ioyn'd wich the Sacrament of pennance viz. Confession and Priestly Absolution c. which Protestants reiect J say without the Sacrament of pennance actually and duly recoin'd all Catholiques hold that neither Fayth nor Hope nor any repentance or sorrow for sinne can saue vs but that only which is ioyned with a perfect loue of God wherby wee are dispos'd to loose all and suffer all that can be imagin'd rather then to offend God yea though there were indeed neither Heauen to reward vs nor Hell to punish vs which beeing a thing so hard to be found especially 〈◊〉 such as beleeue a man is iustifyed by Fayth only it followes euidently that in our doctrine very few or no Protestants are saued The Conclusion therfore is vndenyable that our Church is a safer way to Salua ion then that of Protestants My second Argument is this That Church and Religion which affords all necessary meanes of Saluation is a safer way to Saluation then an other which does not But the Roman Church and Religion affords all necessary meanes of Saluation and the Protestant doth not Ergo the Roman Church and Religion is a safer way to Saluation then the Church and Religion of Protestants The Maior is euident The Minor consists of two parts which I shall proue in order The First which is that the Roman Church and Religion affords all necessary meanes of Saluation appeares partly by the confession of Protestants themselues who acknowledge generally that in our Church and Religion are contained all Foundamentall points that is all things absolutely necessary to Saluation and partly because it cannot be proued that any thing is of absolute necessity in order to Saluation which is not found in our Churches Communion The second that Protestants standing to their owne principles neither haue nor can haue things necessary for Saluation J proue by this one Argument Jt is certaine that diuine Fayth necessary to Saluation according to these places of Holy Writt sine fide impossibile est placere Deo Hebr. 11. without Fayth it is impossible to please God Qui non crediderit condemnabitur Marc. 16. He that beleeueth not shall be damned 'T is likewise certaine that this diuine Fayth must be firme sure and without doubt or hesitation in so much that if an Angel from Heauen should preach the contrary to what wee beleeue it ought not to be altered according to that of the Apostle Galat. 1. 8. Now how is it possible that Protestants standing to their
For Universal Traditions are recorded in Authours of every succeeding age and it seems much more incident to have errours slip into writings of so great bulk as is the Bible which in their Editions pass onely through the hands of particular men then that there should be errours in publique Universal and Immemorial Traditions which are openly practis'd throughout all Christendome and taken notice of by every one in all ages To shew the difference therefore betwixt Scripture and Tradition not onely in their Originals but in their successive deliverers from hand to hand let us compare them together St. John for example writes one of his Epistles and St. Luke his Gospel to particular persons These upon the credit of the persons to whom they were written were deliver'd as Authentical Apostolical writings to other Christians and so by degrees came to be publickly deliver'd that is made known to the whole Primitive Church and received by it And thence in like manner the Church receiv'd and deliver'd them in succeeding ages On the other side the Apostles to descend to some particulars observ'd the first day of the week as sacred in place of the Sabbath Baptized Infants used Altars c. This in the very prime Institution and practice of it was not done privately onely by some one Apostle or in the presence of one single person onely but publiquely by all the Apostles and universally practis'd by all Christians It was therefore incomparably harder morally speaking to doubt in the beginning of these Traditions then whether Saint John's Epistle or St. Luke's Gospel were really theirs or no. Wherefore we see that many Books of the New Testament were doubted of for many years in some particular Churches whereas all in all places accounted these said Traditions and their like to be most undoubtedly Apostolical by the universal uncontradicted practice of them being deliver'd from age to age under this Notion as truly and really descending from the Apostles Here his Lordship supposes A. C's pen to be troubled and forsake him insinuating thereby to his Reader that this trouble proceeds out of some check of Conscience But under favour it is not so much A. C's pen as his own that is here troubled For he sets down in a different letter above eight lines as written by A. C. which notwithstanding were none of his This indeed hath something of a troubled pen and peradventure of a troubled conscience also unless we may rather take it for a piece of art to make A. C. seem to say that the Copies of Scripture may be considered as printed by men assisted with Gods Spirit whereas he onely sayes they may be considered as printed and by authority of men assisted by Gods Spirit approved to be true Copies Was not this a pretty sleight to blast the credit of his Adversary 3. Again is it not strange to see how he restrains the Infallible Assistance of the Holy Ghost onely to the Apostles times How come Christians then to inferre from the places cited by A. C. that the Church shall never fall away and perish For if the assistance be not to preserve the succeeding Church at least from some kinde of errours infallibly it may notwithstanding all the assistance he allows it here fall into all kinde of errours one after another and so by degrees the whole Church might fall into a general Apostacy and thereby perish There must therefore be some kinde of Infallible Assistance in the Apostles Successours by vertue of these promises For otherwise how would this Doctrine of his agree with that of other Modern Protestant Authours who grant that our Saviour by those Texts promis'd an Infallible Assistance to his visible Church and her Pastours lawfully assembled in a General Council in all points belonging to the foundation of Religion Nay how comes he here to take away all Infallible Assistance of the Holy Ghost from the Apostles Successours and yet grant above that the present Church is Infallible in all Fundamentals Comes not this Infallibility from the Holy Ghost and proceeds it not from the said promise of our Saviour But what shall we say to an Adversary that forges what Chimerical Doctrine he pleases and then fights against it He would fain impose upon his Reader that A. C. in the words cited by him num 28. contends that not onely the Pastours met together in a full Representative of the Church but severally and apart are each of them Infallible which he inveighs against and presses so far that he would perswade the ignorant that the Jesuits also have a moneths minde to this Infallibility Whence draws he I pray this consequence Forsooth because A. C. averres that the Holy Ghost through Christs promise is to assist infallibly the Successours of the Apostles the lawfully-sent Pastours and Doctours of the Church in all ages But what if A. C's words cannot be understood of every Pastour or Doctour apart but rather of Pastours and Doctours lawfully assembled in an Oecumenical Council as indeed he doth which thus I shew Every Authour is to be understood to mean by his words what they will properly bear and is consonant with the meaning of his other words Now the whole dispute wherein the Bishop and A. C. were then engag'd was whether the whole Church might erre in her Tradition of Scripture So that it was necessary for him to apply the promises of our Saviour to the Pastours of the Church onely so far as those Pastours were the Representative Church and their Tradition the Churches-Tradition This A. C. signifies expresly by his words immediately before these here cited by his Lordship which the Relatour handsomely conceals to make his windings the less perceptible For A. C. speaks thus I see no reason why the like two-fold consideration of the Tradition of the present Church may not be admitted especially when as the promise of Christ and his holy Spirits continual presence is not onely to the Apostles but to their Successours also the lawfully-sent Pastours and Doctours of the Church in all ages Where it is evident he took those words as a Medium to prove the Infallibility of the Tradition of the present Church thereby tying those promises to the Pastours and Doctours of the Church as they may be said to be the Church not as they are separate and apart but as assembled in a full Representative of the Church that is a General Council All therefore that follows either of the Pope as a private Pastour or of the Jesuits c. is to no purpose as proceeding meerly from a misunderstanding or rather perverting of A. C's words Yet I cannot omit a consequence which the Bishop will needs extort from the Jesuits meaning as though he had been in his heart when he wrote those words And though A. C. out of his bounty sayes he is content to extend it to all the lawfully-sent Pastours of the Church where all is handsomely juggled into A. C's Text yet his own
Council till her forbearance therein may be interpreted a Neglect or Refusal to do it Fifthly he scores us out no way how we should go to work to obtain the necessary Concurrence of all Christian Princes to the actual Assembling of this new model'd Council It would be too long to point out all the inextricable Difficulties that attend this uncanonical way of proceeding in Religion recommended by the Bishop A Doctrine so far from being a Remedy against the pretended intolerable failings of a former General Council upon supposition of the whole Churches neglect or refusal to call a Council and examin them that it is highly instrumental to Division both in Church and State giving as good title if not better to any new Body of Sectaries to reform Protestantism when they get power into their hands as it did to Protestants to reform for themselves against the whole Church 4. However the Bishop still goes on harping upon the same string and in lieu of giving us solid Arguments to evince the Truth of what he would perswade viz. that his opinion touching a General Councils possibility of erring in points of Faith is most preservative of peace established or ablest to reduce perfect Unity into the Church he falls into a tedious discourse which he sayes he will adventure into the world but onely in the nature of a Consideration which yet he divides into many entring upon the First with Two very erroneous Suppositions which he layes for the foundation of a tottering Superstructure The one that the Government of the Church is no further Monarchical then as Christ is the Head The other that all the Power an Oecumenical Council hath to determine and all the Assistance it hath not to erre in its Determination it hath it all from the Universal Body of the Church because the Representative of a Commonwealth hath no more power then what it receives from the Body it represents The first of these viz. that the Church is not governed by one in chief under Christ is a supposition more then once confuted To the second which we have already impugned above we further answer that the Power and Assistance which General Councils have to determine Controversies of Faith so as not to erre in the Determination cannot possibly be communicated to them by the Church but must chiefly proceed from the same Fountain now it did in the Apostles time viz. from the Direction of the Holy Ghost This Spiritual power for the government of the Church being not of Humane but Divine Institution nor proceeding so much from the Natural Wisdome Knowledge Vertue and Abilities of the Ecclesiastical Governours assembled in Council as from the cooperation of the Holy Spirit with them Whereas in a Civil Commonwealth which is of Humane Institution its representative cannot pretend to any other Power then what is derived from the said Commonwealth Secondly the Bishop considers that though the Act that is hammered out by many together must needs be perfecter then that which is but the childe of one mans sufficiency yet this cannot be Infallible unless it be from some special Assistance of the Holy Ghost This we no way contradict but adde that this special Assistance of the holy Ghost is so far ever afforded to a Lawful General Council as to render all it s compleated Definitions of Faith Infallible 5. Thirdly he considers that the Assistance of the Holy Ghost is without errour that sayes he is no question and as little that a Council hath it But the doubt that troubles is whether all Assistance of the Holy Ghost be afforded in such an high manner as to cause all the Definitions of a Council in matters Fundamental in the Faith and in remote Deductions from it to be alike Infallible By this expression alike Infallible the Bishop seems to grant that all the Definitions of a General Council even in Deductions as well as Fundamentals are Infallible and onely to doubt whether they be alike Infallible I see no necessity of graduating Infallibility in the present question since any real Infallibility is as much as Catholique Authors assert in all Decisions of Faith be they Fundamental or remote Deductions in the Bishops sense seeing that as to our obligation of believing them they are alike Fundamental as we have prov'd in the second Chapter Here the Bishop intends to examine the Texts which he sayes Stapleton rests upon for proof of Infallible Assistance afforded to General Councils viz. John 16. 13. I will send you the Spirit of Truth which will lead you into all Truth And John 14. 16. This Spirit shall abide with you for ever And Matth. 28. 20. Behold I am with you to the end of the world Likewise these which he sayes are added by others viz. The Founding the Church upon the Rock against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevail Matth. 16. 18. and Luke 22. 32. Christs Prayer for St. Peter that his Faith fail not and Christs promise Mat. 18 20. That where two or three are gathered together in his Name he will be in the midst of them And that in the Acts chap. 15. 28. It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us A man would imagine these Texts sufficiently clear in themselves to evince the Truth of the Catholick Assertion touching General Councils but the Bishop is partly of another minde affirming that no one of them does infer much less inforce Infallibility He was loath to say all of them together did not But let us hear how he quarrels them in particular To the first which speaks of leading into all Truth and that for ever he answers ALL is not alwayes universally taken in Scripture nor is it here simply for All Truth but for ALL TRUTH absolutely necessary to Salvation I reply neither do we averre that it is here universally taken or doth signifie simply all Truth for then it would comprehend all natural Truth and matter of Fact which we deny no less then the Bishop but that it signifies all Truth necessary for the Apostles and their Successors to know for the Instruction and Government of the Church whether expressed or but infolded in Scripture or Tradition As to his limiting the words to Truths absolutely necessary to Salvation we say this is but gratis dictum and a meer groundless restriction depending wholly on the Bishops voluntary assertion as we have already shewn It is also clearly refuted by the Context vers 12. where our Saviour having told his Disciples he had many things to say to them which they could not then bear addes immediately as it were by way of Supplement to their present weakness the forecited words that when the Spirit of Truth should come he would guide them into all Truth that is into all those Truths which Christ had to say to them and which they were not as yet in a capacity to bear But can any man imagine Christ had not already
may say that Christ hath made two promises to his Church the one to assist her souereign Head and Pastour so as that he shall neuer define any thing to be beleeu'd by all the Faythfull but what is diuine truth The other so to assist Generall Councils or the Representatiues of the Church that they shall neuer erre in the doctrine they determin Now those that affirme the Pope alone or without a Generall Council to be infallible as well as Generall Councils hold these two promises to haue been made by our sauiour and that when the Pope defines in Generall Councils his infallibility proceeds from the latter promise by vertue of which the definitions of Councils confirm'd by the Pope would be infallible although the other promise had not been made as the Council at Hierusalem would haue been infallible by vertue of the infallible Assistance which was promised to euery Representatiue of Christs Church though each Apostle had not been endowed with that prerogatiue The Bishop wonders that they which affirme the Pope cannot erre doe not affirm likewise that he cannot sinne But why does he not wonder too that Christ should giue infallibility in teaching to St. Peter as the Relatour cannot denie but he did and yet not preserue him from those defects for which St. Paul sayth 〈◊〉 was truly reprebensible Could not his Lordship obserue that infallibility in the Head of the Church would be an effectuall meanes to settle Religion confirme the Faythfull suppress Heresies preuent differences in matter of Fayth c. seeing none would oppose the doctrine of the Pope if they held him infallible whereas no such good would accrue to the Church in point of sanctity though the Pope were impeccable and held so to be by all Christians For seeing that Prerogatiue in Christ whome they hold to be their iudge and to haue power to condemne them to euerlasting flames cannot keep them in their duty much less would the Popes impeccability doe it though they did all generally beleeue it Lastly as the infallibility of the Pope is in so many respects profitable for the Church more then his immunity from sin would be so the Assertours of it doe alledge many probable and pregnant arguments from scripture and Ecclesiasticall Writers to proue it but for his impeccability none can be alledged 8. What can be inferred from Pope Liberius his demanding the iudgement of St. Athanasius I cannot see vnless the Relatour had first shew'n that the Pope did this after he had pass'd a definition ex 〈◊〉 in the matter But in his allegation of S. Ambrose he mistaks worst of all The Bishops intent is to shew that the Popes definitions in matters of Fayth are fallible and subiect to errour why because St. Ambrose lib. 1. epist. 83. 〈◊〉 that many did aske his opinion touching the obseruation of Easter post 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae definitionem Episcopi quoque Romanae Ecclesiae after the definition of the Church of Alexandria and also of the Bishop of Rome whereas the context of St. Ambrose makes it cleere that he speakes not of any Doctrinall or 〈◊〉 definitions touching that point which had been long before determined by the Council of Nice but only of such Definitions and Rules for obseruing the precise time on which Easter day fell as by the appointment of the Nicen Council the Bishop of Alexandria was yearly to send to the Pope and the Pope yearly to publish to the rest of the Church That such Astronomicall not Thcologicall Definitions were published annually is manifest from Baronius and the reason was for that though by the decree of the Councill of Nice all Christian Churches of Catholique Communion did celebrate Easter not vpon the Decima quarta mensis primi or day of the Iewish Pasche but vpon the day following yet by reason of the different accompts or computation of time through the various ending and begining of Monthes it fell out that all did not celebrate it vpon the same sunday Wherfore to remedy this inconuenience and reduce the obseruation of Easter as much as might be to a generall vniformity it was order'd by the Councill of Nice that by reason the Egyptians were held to be the most exact and experienced of all other nations in the calculation of time the Bishop of 〈◊〉 in Egypt should take care that the fall of Easter day might be exactly calculated euery yeare by such as were most skillfull in that art and the calculation sent to the Bishop of Rome so seasonably as that he might haue time enough to 〈◊〉 notice of it to all other Christian Churches to the end that Easter might be obseru'd on the same day throughout the whole Church Hence comes the frequent mention of the Cycly and 〈◊〉 Paschales in antiquity and of these only St. Ambrose speakes as is cleere by the whole epistle cited by the Bishop and not of any thing Doctrinall or Dogmaticall touching the question of Easter or anything else The Reader may see if he please Baronius Tom. 3. ad Ann. 325. num 110. 111. and Petauius de doctrin Temp. against Scaliger lib. 2. cap. 57. pag. 205. Also his notes upon Epiphanius in Heres Quarto-decimam Nor will those Prophesies as the Bishop calls them out of 〈◊〉 amount to any iust proofe of the Popes fallibility in the sense where in Catholiques deny it vnless he proue the Popes taught them as matters of Fayth to the whole Church Againe he mistakes by affirming that Pope Alexander the Third with a Councill of three hundred Archbishops and Bishops held at Rome condemn'd Peter Lombard of Heresie and that after he had layn vnder that sentence for the space of thirty six yeares Innocent the Third restor'd him and condemn'd his accusers The 〈◊〉 of the historie is only this After Peter Lombards death there was obseru'd in some of his writings this proposition Christus secundum quod est homo non est aliquid which beeing contrary to the Catholique doctrine touching the perfection of Humane Nature in Christ was indeed condemned by Pope Alexander as the Bishop tells you but was neuer approu'd by Pope Innocent That which Innocent approu'd was only the sayd Peter Lombards doctrine concerning the Trinity against which the Abbot 〈◊〉 had written all which you may read in Baronius and Spondanus his continuation of him in the yeares 1164. 1179 and 1215. Whence it appears that neither part of the Bishops 〈◊〉 concludes any thing against vs. For neither did Pope Alexander erre in comdemning the sayd Proposition of Lombard notwithstanding the Relatour 〈◊〉 and without any reason giuen reproaches him with errour nor yet Pope Innocent in iustifying his doctrine against the Abbot Ioachim for the ones condemnation and the others approbation were of seuerall propositions Alexander condemning a proposition touching the matter of the Incarnation which was neuer repeald by Pope Innocent and Jnnocent approuing his doctrine in the matter of the B. Trinity which was neuer condemn'd by
the force of A. Cs. maxime viz. that 't is safest in order to Saluation to take that way which both parties agree in which imports not any agreement whatsoeuer indefinitely speaking but determinately and specially such an agreement or an agreement so farre betwixt aduerse parties concerning such a point or thing as to acknowledge the beleefe or doing of it doth not destroy Saluation or doth not hinder the parties beeing sau'd that does it Had due notice been taken of this it would haue sau'd him the trouble of bringing this and so many other instances to noe purpose of which more in due place Jn the meane time wee conceiue the disparity betwixt the case and argument of Petilian and A. C. so manifest that it needs no further illustration 10. But here the Relatour growes into choler taking A. C. of a most 〈◊〉 vntruth and such as an ingenuous man would not haue spoken for no other reason but for saying there is confessedly noe perill of damnation by liuing and dying in the Roman Church J answer whateuer the Bishop granted or granted not in express terms to A. C. touching this matter 't is certaine that from what he doth confess it really and necessarily followes that there is no perill of damnation per se loquendo or precisely by liuing and dying in the Roman Church For first as to the ignorant which hold the pretended errours of our Church but cannot discern them those he professedly exempts from perill of damnation if they conforme themselues to a religious life Secondly he grants that such others of the Roman Church as doe euen 〈◊〉 and knowingly associate themselues to the gross superstitions of the Romish Church if they hold the Foundation Christ and liue accordingly are not to be deny'd Saluation Whence I argue If according to the Bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 voluntary nor inuoluntary superstition excludes a Papist from possibility of beeing sau'd it is no lowd vntruth nor indeed so much as a mistake to say that in the Roman Church there is confessedly noe perill of damnation in the sense abouesayd that is meerly by liuing and dying in that Communion What he adds after this of some amonge vs who wish the superstitions abolished which they know and pray to God to forgiue their errours in what they know not and would haue all things amended that are amiss were it in their power if he meanes that such persons should know any superstitions taught and allowed by the Church as duties of Religion or that they would haue any thing amended in the Churches publique Authoriz'd doctrine he mistakes very much in supposing such persons to belong to our Church and Communion it beeing contrary to Catholique Fayth to beleeue that any such errours or uperstitions can be taught by the Church and he might as well suppose if he had pleas'd that those are Protestants who goe to Church and ioyne with Protestants in exteriour seruice only to saue their estates or for some other temporall ends though they hold the Protestant Tenets contrary to the doctrine of the Roman Church for no better then Heresies and would if it were in their power much more willingly heare Mass then common prayer when they goe to Church Neither can he be a Catholique who prayes to God to forgiue his errours in any matter or point defined by the Church for that implies a beleefe or doubt that the Church may haue erred in defining some doctrine of Fayth which according to vs is absolutely inconsistent whith true Fayth no more then wee presume he could haue been thought a Christian or Protestant in the Bishops opinion who should aske God forgiueness for beleeuing some thing deliuered in Canonicall scripture Jn answer to A. Cs. Assertion wherby he preferrs both for number and worth those who deny there is any perill of damnation by liuing and dying in the Roman Church before those who affirm there is the Bishop that he might more easily confute the passage first of all cunningly diuides it and endeauours to shew that number alone is no sufficient ground of truth Who sayes it is Not A. C. J am sure who as cleerly as he could ioyn'd both together worth to number as a necessary supplement and concluds what he intends ioyntly from them both Now this term worth comprehending not only eminency of power and authority but also of vertue learning zeale prudence sanctity etc. can any man doubt but those who haue the greater number and worth on their side are in all prudence to be thought rather in the truth then those who haue incomparably less or indeed nothing at all in comparison of them His long marginall allegations therfore which mention number only serue to no purpose but to amuse And yet neither doth A. C. nor any of vs say that our Fayth rests vpon the number or worth of men as the Bishop will needs insinuate but vpon Gods infallible veracity and authority number and worth of men beeing only motiues of credibility to induce and direct vs prudently to determin to which of the two parties wee are to giue credit when they teach vs contrary doctrines A. C. thought it so euident a thing that those of the Catholique beleefe in the points controuerted betwixt vs and Protestants doe incomparably exceed those of the contrary partie as the Bishop would neuer haue call'd for a proofe of it as indeed it needs none For if wee compare those spread ouer the whole face of Christendome for the last thousand yeares a space of time commonly granted vs by our aduersaries who beleeu'd as wee beleeue and neuer dream't of any perill eyther of schisme Heresie or sinne by liuing and dying in the Roman Church with those few that since yesterday as it were began to dissent from vs and pretend there was perill of schisme c. by liuing and dying in the sayd Church wee shall finde these in worth and number iust nothing in regard of the other So that in truth the Relatour himselfe had he well consider'd it should haue blusht at his own extrauagant obiection you haue not yet prou'd your partie more worthy for life or learning then the Protestants and not bid his aduersary blush for speaking the truth For in this case who sees not that all true Christians who for a thousand yeares together liu'd in the world were and are of our party II. But let vs consider what other instances the Bishop brings to impugn A. Cs. maxime that 't is safest to follow that way in Religion in which the differing parties agree there is possibility of Saluation His first is taken from the article of our Sauiours descent into hell The Church of Rome sayth he and the Church of England dissenting parties doe agree that our Sauiour descended into hell and that hell is the place of the damned Therfore according to A. Cs. rule it should be safest to beleeue that our Sauiour descended into the place of the damned But this
This and very little else as the experience of all ages and times shew is the fruite that comes to the Church and true Religion by allowing priuate persons this iudgement of discretion or liberty to examin the definitions of Generall Councills Not to vrge that from this doctrine of the Bishop it necessarily and plainly followes that the Authority of Generall Councils is of noe greater force for the settling of our Fayth and the satisfaction of our vnderstanding in matters of Religion then the testimony and resolution of any priuate man is or may be For if J be allowed to examin the grounds of the one as well as of the other and may if in my owne priuate iudgement J thinke J haue iust cause as lawfully doubt and deny the desinitions of the one as the resolution of the other wherein doe J attribute more to a Generall Council then J doe to a priuate person Seeing 't is euident that neither the one nor the other haue further Authority with mee or command ouer my vnderstanding then their seuerall reasons in my own iudgement deserue and that if the reasons of a priuate man appeare to mee to be more weighty and conuincing then those of a Generall Council J am permitted freely and without sinne to embrace the sayd priuate persons opinion and refuse the doctrine of a Generall Councill 7. His asserting so confidently that for things necessary and Fundamentall in the Fayth wee need noe assistance from other Generall Councills beside the fowre first seemes noe less strange and is sufficiently disprou'd euen by euidence of fact For hath not the assistance of posteriour Generall Councils since the fowre first been really and de facto found necessary for determining matters of Fayth what doe our Aduersaries thinke of the fifth Generall Councill or second of Constantinople was it not matter of Fayth and necessary to Saluation what this Councill defin'd against the Heresie of Origen and his Adherents what thinke they of the sixth against the Monothelites was not the doctrine and beleefe of two distinct wills in Christ defin'd by this Councill in the Bishops opinion as Fundamentall in the Fayth as the doctrine and beleefe of two natures defin'd by that of Chalcedon Againe may not fresh errours arise may not some new vnheardof Heresie spring vp corrupting the Fayth contradicting Fundamentall matters in Religion Jf they doe shall it not be necessary for the Church that such errours be condemned by Generall Councils The Relatour pretends here that some that some of our own very honest and learned men as he is pleas'd to qualifie them when it serues his turn are of the same opinion with him in this point citing in proofe hereof certayn words as he pretends of Petrus de Alliaco an ancient Schoole-Author otherwise know'n by the name of Cardinalis Cameracensis Vertsstmum esse c. 'T is most true all things pertaining to Religion are well order'd by the fathers if they were as well and diligently obserued But first here 's a great mistake The words which the Bishop cites are not the words of Petrus de Alliaco nor any part of the booke which he wrote de reformatione Ecclesiae and presented to the Councill of Constance but of one Orthuinus Grauius who publish't it with diuerse other small tractates of that nature in his fasciculus rerum expetenilarum etc. printed at Basil. 1535. as any man may see that peruses that booke Secondly admitting they were or that Petrus de Aliaco did in his treatise say the same thing in effect yet were it little to the Bishops purpose For the Authours meaning is that those Fathers haue so well ordered all things in respect of the Mysteries which were then opposed by Heretiques that if they were well obserued there would be noe need of making new definitions in reference to the same doctrine But he does not deny but that vpon new emergent occasions other Generall Councills may be necessary in the Church nay the designe of his whole treatise is to shew that how well soeuer all things had been order'd and determin'd by former Councills yet by reason of the long Schisme that had been in the Church and of many Heresies springing vp the Authority of an other Generall Councill to witt of Constance was necessary as well to determin the controuerted points of Fayth as to extirpate the Schisme and all other abuses and disorders in the Church With what truth then could the Bishop pretend that Petrus de Aliaco is of the same opinion with him touching the no-necessity of making any new determinations in matter of Fayth by any Generall Councills whatsoeuer after the fowre first And as for Holkot what euer he may teach concerning Heresie or Infidelity when the errour is not know'n to be against the definition or vniuersall Tradition of the Church yet doubtless when it is know'n to be so and vnder that quality only wee dispute of it with the Bishop neither he nor any other Catholique Authour will deny it to be formall Heresie or Infidelitie to hold it St. Cyprian here likewise alledged speaks cleerly of such matters as were then vndefined and were not till a long while after defin'd by the Councill of Nice St. Thomas speaks only deminis et opinionibus as his words shew of small matters and priuate opinions which in no sort concern our present controuersie and wherein wee acknowledge with the Relatour Christian men may differ one from an other without breach of that one sauing Fayth or Christian charity necessary to Saluation But for matters which the Church hath found necessary for preuention of Schismes preseruation of vnity and for vindicating or cleering the ancient receiued truth from corruption and errour once to determine by Generall Councils how small and vn-fundamentall soeuer the points themselues were in their own nature wee challenge our Aduersaries to produce one Catholique Authour of good name ancient or modern who taught that Christians might lawfully disfer in such points after their sayd definitions or that they might dissent and beleeue contrary to what the Church had defined This the Relatour should haue shew'n had he mean't to deale candidly with his Reader and not meerly to amuse him by filling his pages with Authorities cited to noe purpose 8. Had not the Apostles those first-preachers of Christian Fayth to the world Reuclation from God not only of things absolutely-necessary to Saluation and Fundamentalls in the Relatours sense but of all other diuine truths belonging to Christian Religion and did not they deliuer the one as well as the other for diuine truths to their immediate successours according to that of St. Paul Acts. 20. 27. I haue kept back NOTHING that was PROFITABLE vnto you J haue not shunned to declare vnto you ALL THE COVNSELL of God etc. as the Protestants translate it with command and obligation that they also should both preach and testifie the same diuine truths to the world entirely and
doth not with any presumption signify that a man is a Protestant which falls out otherwise in England For here it hath always been held a conformity to and with the Protestant Religion professed in England to goe to Church and therfore not allowed by any of our Diuines who neuer giue way to the profession of false doctrine Now who is more guilty of dissimulation in Religion which the Bishop charges vpon some of our partie then the Bishop himselfe Doth he not § 35. punct 5. professedly allow possibility of Saluation to such Catholiques as doe both wittingly and knowingly associate themselues euen to the gross superstitions of the Romish Church and such as come euen neere to Idolatrie only because they beleeue the Creed and hold the Foundation what is this but to teach it lawfull at least no sinne excluding Saluation to ioyne ones selfe outwardly to a superstitious Church in a superstitious false and euen Idolatrous way of worshipping God contrary to ones knowledge and constience only for some temporall and worldly respects and consequently that men are not alwayes bound to seeme and appeare as they are but sometimes at least may haue liberty to weare a masque But certainly that which followes is a most strange and inconsequent Paradox if euer any was Jf the Religion of Protestants sayes the Bishop be a know'n false Religion then the Romanists Religion is so too For their Religion meaning Catholiques and Protestants is the same sayth he nor doe the Church of Rome and the Protestants sett vp a different Religion for the Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine gross corruptions to the very endangering of Saluation which each side sayes the other is guilty of What is this but to heape absurdities one vpon an other which of all these propositions is maintainable in any true and proper sense The Religion of Catholiques and Protestants is the same The church of Rome and the Churches of Protestants sett not vp different Religions Christian Religion is the same both to Catholiques and Protestants they are of the same Religion and yet differ in it First are wee of the same Religion because wee agree in some few generall points why might he not as well haue sayd that Arians and all other Heretiques are of the same Religion with vs. by reason of their agreement with vs in some points of Fayth Secondly is Christian Religion J meane in the necessary soundness and integrity of it common both to Catholiques and Protestants what Protestant will affirm that it is and if it be not why would the Relatour trifle and abuse his Reader with such vaine and pernicious amphibologie as he here vseth in a business of so great importance Thirdly if wee Catholiques be of the same Religion with Protestants how can wee be sayd to differ from them in the same Religion as the Relatour here expressly sayes wee 〈◊〉 can I be of the same 〈◊〉 with my neighbour and yet differ from him in the same thing surely if our Religion and that of Protestants be the same wee are not to be sayd to differ but to agree in it vnless our aduersary and his party thinke they may vary the common sense and notion of words at their sole pleasure Beside those points about which vnder the notion of corruptions and errours the Bishop himselfe acknowledges that wee doe differ eyther they are parts of Chrstian Religion or they are not So they be parts of Christian Religion seeing by his own confession wee differ in them from Protestants how is Christian Religion in gross sayd to be common to vs both how is it the same to Catholiques and Protestants If they be not parts of Christian Religion how can wee by reason of them be sayd to differ from Protestants in Religion or in the same Christian Religion But what sayes the Bishop cannot I proue any superstition or errour to be in the Roman Church none at all A.C. it seems had told him so now truly I would to God from my heart this were true and that the Church of Rome were so happy and the Catholique Church thereby 〈◊〉 with truth and peace For J am confident such truth would soone eyther command peace or confound peace breakers But is there 〈◊〉 superstition in adoration of Images None in Inuocation of Saynts None in adoration of the Sacrament Js there 〈◊〉 errour in breaking Christs own Institution of the Sacrament by giuing it but in one kinde None about Purgatory and common prayer in an vnknowen tongue These and many more are in the Roman Religion and 't is noe hard worke to proue euery one of these to be errour or superstition or both Wee answer 't is a harder worke to proue them to be so then barely to affirme them to be so otherwise wee are confident his Lordship would haue been as liberall of his proofs in this kinde as he is of his 〈◊〉 for surely it more imported him to proue then to accuse But wee aske how will his friends and adherents after him proue them to be superstitions and errours By Scripture only who shall be iudge that the places alledged out of Scripture to that purpose beare the sense in which Protestants vnderstand rather then that in which Generall Councills vnderstood them when they defin'd the recited particulars as the present Roman Church beleeues and obserues them at this day when they haue done all they can the finall resolution of the business must according to Protestants be reduced to priuate iudgement which in such matters as these according to St. Austin is most insolent madness Nor doe J see vpon what ground the Relatour could be so confident that if the Roman Church were so happy as to teach nothing but truth to witt in Protestants sense that is to agree with Protestants in condemning the worship of Jmages Jnuocation of Saynts Adoration of the Sacrament Purgatory etc. it would so certainly eyther command peace or confound peace-breakers as he imagins What confusion I pray would it be for such people to disagree from a Church which proclaymes her owne erroneousness to all the world by beginning now to teach contrary not only to her selfe and her own former beleefe but contrary to the generall beleefe of all Christendome beside for many hundred of yeares would not the very alteration of doctrine which in this supposition the Roman Church must necessarily make render it euident to all men that both her selfe and the whole Church of Christ with her may erre and hath erred in points of greatest importance concerning the Fayth what peace-breakers would be confounded with the authority of a Church so apt to fall into errours and superstitions of such dangerous nature Truly for my part I am soe farre from thinking such an impossible case as the Bishop here putts would eyther command peace or confound peace-breakers that is the Authours or Abettours of priuate
well to the verity of doctrine Who teaches otherwise who sayes 't is tyed to place and persons only who denyes but succession of the same and by consequence of true doctrine is requir'd together with succession of persons This Memorandum therfore serues vs only for an occasion to acknowledge with Tertullian that besides the order of Bishops which is personall succession there is requir'd consanguinitas doctrinae conformity of doctrine in those persons to the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles 't is requir'd I say that the doctrine which succeeding Pastours teach be allyed in bloud and of Kin to that which Christ and his Apostles taught as the Relatour also vrges in so much as if the doctrine which succeeding Pastours teach be strange that is contrary to the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles the succession it selfe will be iudged Alien and strange too what neereness soeuer of persons is pretended All this wee willingly confess with Tertullian in the places cited by the Bishop Irenaeus likewise teacheth that wee are to obey those Presbyters or Bishops who together with the succession of their Bishopriques haue receiued the grace or guift of truth to which wee subscribe and for this reason maintaine that the Greeke Church would want one necessary marke of the true Church though she could shew a continuall visible succession of persons in her Hierarchy because they haue long since erred and doe still continue in errour against the true Fayth by denying the procession of the holy Ghost to be from the Father and the Sonne as it hath been defin'd in Generall Councills As for Protestants 'tis manifest that vpon this account they are excluded from beeing part of the true Church seeing 't is confess 't by Protestants that for neere a thousand yeares before Luther there was noe visible Church that denyed those points of doctrine which Protestants now deny and account damnable errours and superstitions in our Church And J wonder how any rationall man can imagin that in so long a tract of time wherein the pretended errours are sayd to be introduc'd all those Watchmen appointed by God to be vigilant ouer the Church and not to hold their peace should be soe dead a-sleepe as not to take the least notice of them for such and Protestants alone after a a thousand yeares so much awake as not only to obserue them but to breake Communion vpon account thereof 10 Well But wee must now help Doctor Stapleton out of the brieres vpon which sayes the Bishop he hath torn his credit The Relatour himselfe acknowledges this Authour for a great Clarke but will haue 〈◊〉 beleeue that to make good the succession to the Roman Church he is forced to contradict himselfe Why because he first affirms that sound doctrine is iudiuisible or inseparable from true and 〈◊〉 succession and presently after tells vs that a lawfull Pastour may become a Wolfe to witt by teaching Heresie and false doctrine which if it may happen the Bishop concludes sound doctrine and lawfull succession are separated which is contrary to what Stapleton sayd before But our Doctour needs no such help as the Bishop imagins it is but fairly and rightly vnderstanding him and the business is done Doctor Stapleton when he teaches that sound doctrine is inseparable from true and lawfull succession takes succession collectiuely or for the whole succession of lawfull Pastours in any particular age of the Church meaning therby that it can neuer happen that all the lawfull Pastours of the Church in any age should desert sound doctrine or teach Heresie he takes it not distributiuely for any particular Pastour or Pastours of the Church all which generally speaking he knowes very well may erre in their own persons and desert sound doctrine Like as when the Bishop himselfe teaches that the Catholique Church cannot erre in points Fundamentall he meanes only that the whole Church cannot so erre but any particular person or member of the Church may Now what contradiction is there betwixt these two propositions the whole succession of lawfull Pastours cannot be separated from sound doctrine and some particular Pastours that is part of the whole may and become of Pastours wolues truly iust as much as there is betwixt these the whole Church of Christ cannot fall away from the truth but euery particular member of the Church may This worthy Doctour therfore will neuer be forc't as the Relatour thinks and would faine haue it to quit the great note of Church-succession that he may agree with the Fathers but he will inuincibly and vnanswerably maintaine that which both the Fathers and himselfe meane by this great note to witt a legitimate succession a succession of Pastours which hold entire both the vnity and Fayth of the Church this beeing the summe and vpshot of all his doctrine touching this point namely that the true Catholique Church is know'n by this that there is in her a perpetuall succession of lawfully-sent Pastours deliuering and receiuing the doctrine of Christ one from an other continually or in all ages which likewise they are always to be suppos'd to haue done and to doe so long as the Church in no succeeding determinate age notes any change of doctrine or publique introduction of nouelty to hane been made by any of them nor that any such change is found recorded by any of those approued Authours who liued in the respectiue ages of the Church and in their writings left report to posterity of all such publique occurences both concerning Religion and the Church as happened in and about their times Wherfore to accuse the Church of Rome of change in doctrine as the Bishop here and all Protestants doe without alleadging such Authentique proofe what is it but out their own arbitrary presumption and malice to pass an vncharitable and rash censure vpon their mother contrary to all rules of equity truth iustice and Christian pietie Till therfore such proofe of change be alledged from sufficient and creditable Records all prudent and impartiall men will iudge the accusation signifies not much saue only that the Church is vnworthily and shamefully wronged by her Aduersaries which is no new thing This then is the haire if wee may so speake in which the strength of that our English Sampson Doctor Stapleton lyes which none of the Philisthims of Gath or Ekron eyther Prelaticall or Presbyterian Aduersaries whateuer they may talke shall be able to cutt off The promise and power of Christ so defends it that no Aduersarie powers shall euer preuaile against it Matth. 16. 18. J meane the continuall vninterrupted succession of lawfull Pastours teaching the same doctrine of Christ in all ages of the Church without any assignable beginning since the time of the Apostles 11. Those pretended Schim's which the Bishop obiects out of Onuphrius that is to say the contestations which haue sometimes been touching elections to the Papall dignity wherby seuerall persons at the same time
Acceptation onely a secondary and accessory Confirmation of them Ibid. Not absolutely necessary as the Popes is Ibid. In what sense it is said that all Pastours are gathered together in General Councils page 213 The whole Churches consent virtually included and effectually declar'd by a General Council page 216 The Prelates in General Councils assembled may proceed against the Pope himself if his crimes be notorious page 231 233 What kinde of Free Council it is that Protestants call for page 233 No Conditions or Rules for holding a General Council justly assignable now which have not been competently observ'd by such former General Councils as Protestants reject page 240 The Church Universal indispensably oblig'd to embrace the Doctrine of General Councils page 250 The Decrees of General Councils in matters of Faith to be receiv'd not as the Decisions of men but as the Dictates of the Holy Ghost p. 252 General Councils not of Humane but Divine Institution page 245 No known Heretick or Schismatick hath Right to sit in General Councils page 233 In what Cases General Councils may be amended the former by the latter page 255 256 257 258 They are Infallible in the Conclusion though not in the Means or Arguments on which the Conclusion is grounded page 263 264 Infallibility of the Apostles and succeeding Councils how they differ page 265 266 The Councils of Arimini and second of Ephesus no lawfull Generall Councils page 268 339 The Supposition of a General Councils Erring in one point renders it liable to Erre in all page 378 Creed St. Athanasius his Creed no absolute Summary of the Catholique Faith page 350 351 No not even supposing the Creed of the Apostles Ibid. What the Authours intent was in composing it Ibid. St. Athanasius first compos'd and publisht it in the Latine Tongue page 351 Donatists A Narrative of their proceedings in the business of Cecilianus their Archbishop and Primate of Africk page 185 186 Donatists why they addrest themselves to the Emperour Constantine Ibid. The Emperour openly professes that the Donatists cause belong'd not to his Cognizance Ibid. What he did in it was forc'd from him by importunity page 185 187 He promises to ask pardon of the Bishops for medling in the Donatists business page 186 The Donatists thrice condemned page 185 186 Emperour No secret compact between the Emperor Sigismund and the Council of Constance in the cause of Huss page 156 No just Sentence ever pronounc'd by an Emperour against the Pope p. 192 In what manner the Emperours for some time ratisy'd the Popes Election Ibid. That Custom 〈◊〉 long since by the Emperours themselves p. 193. The Emperours favour some advantage to the Popes Temporal Interest no ground of his Spiritual Authority page 200 The Surmize of having one Emperour over all Kings as well as one Pope over all Bishops a meer Chimaera or fiction page 225 The Emperour as Supream over his Subjects in all Civil Affairs as the Pope is in matters Spirituall page 226 The Popes never practis'd to bring the Emperours under them in Civil Affairs Ibid. No Catholick Emperours ever took upon them to reform religion without or contrary to the Pastours of the Church Ibid. Errour In matters of Faith though not Fundamental inconsistent with the acknowledg'd Holiness of the Church page 150 Every Congregation unchurched that holds Errour in Faith and the reason why page 151 Eucharist That the holy Eucharist be receiv'd Fasting is a Tradition Apostolicall page 67 Receiving it under one kinde no Errour in Faith page 207 271 Nor contrary to Christs Institution Ibid. The Non-obstante in the Council of Constance's Decree touching the Eucharist to what it refers page 271 272 273 The Eucharist under one kinde a perfect Sacrament page 271 Frequently receiv'd in Primitive times under one kinde page 289 Given by Christ himself in one kinde page 318 Why necessary that the Priest who consecrates should receive in both kindes page 319 Excommunication Never pronounc'd in the Catholique Church but where Obstinacy and perverseness inforce it page 48 Incurr'd ipso facto by all English Protestants for denying any one of the 39. Articles page 49 The English Church more justly censurable for tyranny in point of Excommunications then the Roman page 49 50 Faith Divine and infallible Faith inconsistent with the denial of any one point sufficiently propounded by the Church page 17 Faith Implicite what it imports in Catholique sense page 20 Implicite Faith necessary to be had of all Divine Revelations whatsoever Explicite onely of what the Church defines and propounds for such page 20 The English Protestant Faith not the Faith of the Primitive Church page 328 329 330 331 Implicite Faith not us'd by Catholiques at pleasure page 346 347 Roman Faith The Consequence of this Argument made good The Roman Faith was once THE ONE SAVING FAITH Ergo it is so still p. 340 350 Fathers Catholiques shew all due respect to the Fathers yet without derogation from the Authority of the present Church page 60 61 The Fathers account none Catholiques but such as agree with the Roman Church page 131 Proofs of the Churches Infallibility from the Fathers page 102 105 108. 131 137 178 Protestants profession to stand to the Fathers what it signifies page 208 Fundamental A word in Religion of various and ambiguous Acception page 14 How it ought to be taken in the present Dispute page 14 34 44 Catholiques allow a distinction of Fundamental and Non-Fundamental points in some sense page 15 20 21 23 34 44 All points defin'd by the Church and sufficiently known to be so are Fundamental that is not to be doubted of or deny'd under pain of damnation page 15 16 27 Points not-Fundamental deposited with the Church by Christ and his Apostles no less then points Fundamental page 38 Points Fundamental necessary to be known in specie or particularly page 45 176 177 217 243 Government THe Government of the Church in a Monarchical way not changeable by any power on earth page 221 222 The difference between the Government of the Church in matters of Faith and Religion and the Government of the State in matters of Policy and Civil Concern page 243 244 245 Greeks Their Errour against the Holy Ghosts procession from the Son properly Heretical page 6 7 King James his censure of the Greek Church page 5 Ancient Greeks differ'd onely in Words or manner of speaking from the Latins not in sense page 7 8 21 22 The Greeks excluded from the Council of Trent not by the Popes Summons but by their own Schism page 233 Divers Orthodox Bishops of the Greek Church present in the Council of Trent page 233 234 Modern Greeks no True Church page 10 11 The business of Hieremias the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople page 238 His Censure of the Lutheran Doctrine a sufficient Testimony of the sense of the Greek Church Ibid. He utterly rejected the Lutherans Communion Ibid. Hell THe word Hell doth not alwayes signifie the place of the
point of Christian Religion believ'd by Protestants with Divine Faith page 125 126 127 352 Their Protestation at Auspurgh 1529. directly against the Roman Church and her Doctrine page 146 147 To Protest against the Roman Church in the manner they then did was to Protest against all True visible Churches in the world page 147 Protestants are Chusers in point of Faith as much as any other Heretiques page 353 How far Protestants relie upon the Infallible Authority of the whole Church Ibid. Why unlawful for Catholicks in England to go to Protestant Churches page 401 Purgatory The Council of Florence unanimous in defining the point of Purgatory page 358 The Fathers as well within the first 300. years as after constantly teach Purgatory p. 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 No real difference betwixt praying for the Dead us'd by the Ancients and praying for the Dead us'd by the Roman Church at present p. 360 361 The Testimonies of the Fathers in proof of Purgatory made good page 358 c. ut supra Purgatory rightly esteem'd an Apostolical Tradition page 370 Reformation ALwayes and professedly intended by the Popes themselves in what was really needful p. 147. effected by the Council of Trent Ibid. The Church of Juda no pattern of the Protestants Reformation p. 160 The Parallel for them holds better in the revolted Tribes page 161 Sacriledge the natural fruit of Protestant Reformation page 170 Regicide No doctrine of Catholicks page 212 348 Resolution of Faith How Catholiques do necessarily resolve their Faith into the Churches Definition and how not page 58 60 63. How such and such Books contain'd in the Bible are known to be the word of God page 59 122 No vicious Circle incurr'd by Catholiques in the Resolution of their Faith page 55 62 117 126 In urging the Circle both parties must be suppos'd to believe Scripture with Divine and Infallible Faith page 111 The Bishop in his Resolution cannot avoid the Circle page 64 111 Revelation The Churches Testimony or Definition no New nor Immediate Revelation from God page 58 65 Divine Revelation the onely Formal Object or Motive of Infallible Faith page 59 Safe-Conduct GRanted two wayes jure communi and jure speciali and how they differ page 153 The Safe-Conducts granted to John Huss and Hierome of Prague were meerly jure communi and secur'd them onely against unjust violence Ibid. The Safe-Conduct granted to Protestants by the Council of Trent was jure speciali and as Full and Absolute as themselves could desire or the Council grant page 153 154 The 〈◊〉 of the Council of Constance touching Safe-Conducts granted by Temporal Princes what it intended page 154 156 It contain'd nothing against keeping Faith with Heretiques Ibid. Salvation Attainable in the Roman Faith and Church by our Adversaries own confession page 300 301 c. Catholique Doctors in possibility of Salvation by the Bishops own grounds page 323 324 The Roman Religion demonstrated to be a more safe way to Salvation then that of Protestants page 301 302 303 307 308 Saints Invocation of Saints no Errour in Faith page 290 291 The Fathers teach it ex instituto and Dogmatically Ibid. St. Austin expresly for it Ibid. The Saints Mediatours of Intercession not of Redemption pag. 292 The faithful under the old Testament desir'd to be heard for the merits of Saints no less then we Ibid. The Intercession of Saints departed not derogatory to the Merits or Intercession of Christ. page 293 Schisme Protestants not Catholiques made the present Schisme and how p. 144 145 146 212 Schismes at Rome not in the Roman Church properly speaking p. 144 The true and real causes of Protestants being-Excommunicated by the Roman Church page 145 158 In point of Departure as well as other Circumstances the Parallel betwixt them and the Arians holds good page 145 No just cause assignable for Schisme page 151 Scripture Not believ'd to be Divine but for the Churches Authority p. 17 66 67 Scripture alone can be no sufficient ground of Infallible Assent to Superstructures or non-Fundamental points contained in it page 19 No means of Infallibly-discerning true Scripture from false unless the Church be Infallible page 85 In what cases 't is both lawful and necessary for Christians to riquire a proof that Scripture is Gods word page 118 Scripture alone in the Bishops opinion the whole Foundation of Divine Faith page 116 In what sense Christians must suppose or take it for granted that it is Divine or Gods word page 121 What Light the Scripture must have to shew it self to be Gods Word page 87 The Belief of Scripture for its own pretended Light imprudent p. 88 89 90 91 116 125 The Fathers for some hundred years after Christ 〈◊〉 saw no such Light page 70 91 No reason can be given why Catholicks should not see that pretended Light if there were any such page 90 The Council of Nice made not Scripture their onely Rule of Faith in condemning the Arian Heresie page 125 The Scriptures prerogative above the Church page 60 64 Scripture in a proper sense no first principle p. 51 90 114 118 119 Succession St. James not Successour to our Lord in the Principality of his Church page 205 Our Saviours Prayer Luc. 22. 32. effectually extended both to St. Peter and his Successours page 208 Lawful Pastours visibly Succeeding each other and handing down the same unchanged Doctrine from Christ to this present time an infeparable mark of the true Church page 410 411 Sound Doctrine indivisible from the whole lawful Succession Ibid. The Popes Succession not interrupted by Contestations about the Papacy page 412 413 Sunday That Sunday be kept Holy instead of the Jewish Sabbath an Apostolical Tradition page 67 Synods The Pope no enemy or opposer of National Synods page 166 Sundry National Synods impertinently alled'gd by the Bishop in point of Reformation page 167 168 169 Tradition NOt known but for and by the Churches Authority page 17 Traditions unwritten page 26 67 What Traditions are to be accounted truly Apostolical and the unwritten word of God page 66 c. Universal Tradition morally speaking less subject to alteration or vitiating tiating then Scripture page 98 Church-Tradition a necessary condition of Infallible Belief page 59 How necessary it is that the Tradition of the present Church should be Infallible page 126 Transubstantiation No errour in Faith page 287 Not inconsistent with the grounds of Christian Religion Ibid. The Thing it self alwayes believ'd by Christians page 288 Evinc'd from the Text. page 288 289 Trent The Council of Trent a lawful and free General Council p. 165 229 Nothing to he objected against it more then against all General Councils Ibid. The Popes presiding therein contrary to no Law Divine Natural or Humane but his undoubted Right page 230 231 232 The Pope no more the person to be reform'd at the Council of Trent then at those of Nice and Chalcedon page 232 The place as indifferently chosen for
late vnhappy times some of all other Religions in England oppos'd eyther his sacred Maiestie that now is or his Royall Father they only haue been all and euer Faythfull to them both therby shewing that the doctrine of Allegiance to their lawfull Soureigns is a necessary point of their beleefe and a part of that duty which not only interest and ends but Religion and conscience obliges them to pay The Relatour would haue vs obserue that the Church of England is between two factions as between two mill-stones like to be grown'd to powder pag. 15. Epist. meaning by one of these Catholiques for whome alone I haue vndertaken to plead The Bishop here seemes to complaine of persecution himselfe as well as wee but with farre less reason as is euident seeing wee Catholiques if wee were so ill minded haue no other instruments to persecute withall but our tongues and our pens which draw noe bloud and in the vse whereof I presume no indifferent man well confidering what hath passed both from the pulpitts and presses of our Aduersaries will thinke that in any thing they fall short of vs eyther for lowdness or passion 'T is no such idle Querie as the Relatour would haue it thought pag. 16 Epist. but a very pertinent one to demand where the Protestant or this pretended Church of England was before Luther For haue any Protestants as yet been able to shew a visible Church in the world before Luthers time professing the doctrine which distinguishes them from vs 'T is true they haue been often call'd vpon to this purpose but haue euer any of them done it was the question euer answer'd categorically or otherwise then by tergiuersation and shifting it off with ambiguioyes of their owne fiction as the Relatour himselfe for example here doth by telling vs their Church was there where ours is now one and the same Church still noe doubt of that one in substance but not one in condition of state c. Is this to answer categorically wee doe not enquire whether or noe or in what feigned sense theirs and ours may be sayd to be one and the same Church the following treatise doth sufficiently confute that pretense But our enquirie is whether there were a Ptotestant Church before Luthers time there where our Church now is I say a Protestant Church be it in name or thing that is a visible Society of Christians openly Protesting against the pretended errours and superstitions of our Church and beleeuing the doctrine which Protestants now beleeue and hold in opposition to our Church This neither the Bishop nor any body else was euer able to proue Wee Catholiques therfore doe not only doubt but absolutely deny that there was any Protestant Church or any Church which the Bishop can properly and truly call his Church or their Church speaking of Protestants before Luthers time not only there where ours now is but in any other part or corner of the world Neither is their Church and ours one and the same Church in any other sense then what is meerly fictitious and arbitrary and wherby all Heretiques whatsoeuer may if they will pretend to be one and the same Church with the Catholique Nor is it possible for Protestants to confute them seeing they can bring no conuincing argument to proue that such errours are more destructiue of the Foundation then those which they account damnable and to shake the very Foundation of Christian Religion Who knowes not that wee Catholiques differ from Protestants in the Sacraments which certainly are of the substance of Religion if any thing be and by our Aduersaries own principles and definition of a Church pertaine to the Churches essence Wee differ from them in the matter of Sacrifice which they reiect but wee hold and beleeue to be the most principall and solemne action of all that pertaines to Religious worship Wee differ from them also in many other points of maine concernment to the honour of God and Saluation of soules They charge vs and wee them errours directly derogatory to Gods honour directly contrary to divine Reuelation directly contrary to the institution and ordinance of Christ and repugnant to Saluation How then are wee one and the same Church or how can Protestants pretend to become members of the Catholique Church 〈◊〉 s they maintaine principles or articles of doctrine of such high concernment in Religion contrary to the beleefe of the whole Catholique Church in so many ages before Luther What he layes to our charge Epist. pag. 17. of crying vp the Church aboue Scripture and that so farrae as to indanger the beleefe of it with a great part of men will be abundantly shew'n in the following discourse to be a calumny of the greatest magnitude At present wee only protest against it as such and auerre with himselfe that the Scripture where it is plaine should guide the Church and the Church where there is doubt or difficulty should expound Scripture Only to that Prouiso which he adds touching the Churches exposition of Scripture viz. that shee may reuise what in any case hath slipt from her wee cannot allow it till wee certainly know his meaning For if by reuising what hath shipt from her he mean't to intimate as 't is most probable he did that the Church should erre in any thing shee defines to be beleeu'd 't is his own errour to affirm it as wee shall proue hereafter if any thing else wee meddle not with it Whereas he obserues Epist. pag. 18. that many rigid Professo urs haue turn'd Roman Catholiques and in that turn haue been more Iesuited then any other and that such Romanists as haue chang'd from them haue for the most part quite leap't ouer the meane and been as rigid the other way to the first part of his obseruation I assent reason it selfe teaching it to be true For the streames of that zeale which formerly wrought extrauagantly in them by reason of their ignorance and errour beeing now cleer'd and turn'd the right way make the Professours of it still feruorous for that which is good and no less vehemently auerted from what they know to be ill But of the second part I cannot approue it beeing so contrary to all experience which shew's that the desertours of our Religion seldome become so zealous in the contrary way as the Relatour pretends nay reason it selfe is against it For commonly speaking the motiues of their turn are eyther the preseruation of their estates the obtaining of some other wordly and temporall ends or lastly some voluptuous pleasure of which in the way of Catholique Religion they finde themselues debarr'd And hereof this is an assured Argument that when these motiues cease as at the howre death they all doe many of them through the mercy of God returne from whence they had departed Whereas on the other side I neuer yet heard of the man who professing the Catholique Fayth in time of health desired in sickness to dye a Protestant The Relatour
and that wee could be heard in our prayers and expect releefe not from the Jmages but from the Prototypes which as it is the plaine doctrine of the Church declar'd by the Councils of Nice and Trent so 't is all that in this question I haue vndertaken to defend CHAP. 23. Of the Bishops Confession that Saluation may be had in the Roman Church and the Consequences therupon ARGVMENT 1. The Bishop though not willingly grants in Express terms that some Catholiques may be sau'd and in effect that all 2. A 〈◊〉 Argument That ours is the SAFER way because Protestants as well as wee confess it SAFE explicated and defended 3. Catholiques not iustly tax'd with want of Charity for telling Protestants they cannot be sau'd out of the Communion of the Ro man Church 4. Nothing to be concluded in fauour of the Bishop against A 〈◊〉 Maxim from the agreement of old betwixt Catholiques and Donatists in point of Baptisme 5. Catholiques and Protestants doe not agree in any reall participation of Christ proper to the Sacrament 6. what Catholique Authors meane when they speake of Spiritually-receiuing Christ and of a Spirituall presence in the Eucbarist 7. No perill of Schisme Heresie c. in Communicating with the Roman Church 8. The Relatours various windings vpon this subiect obseru'd 9. No Parallel betwixt A C. argument and that of Petilian the Donatist 10. A C. vniustly tax'd with vntruth By the Bishop 11. Our aduersaries Remainder of instances consider'd and satisfy'd 1. IN this Paragraph the Bishop brings in the Lady asking him whether shee might be saued in the Roman Fayth and though by his answer he grants cleerly enough that there is possibility of Saluation in the Roman Church yet who those are amongst vs whome he thinks may be sau'd is not so cleer Sometimes he seem's to say that those only may be saued who though they erre yet want sufficient ground eyther to doubt or know their errours as for instance when he writes the ignorant that cannot discern the errours of the Church so they hold the foundation and conforme themselues to a religious life may be saued And afterwards wee haue not so learned Christ as to deny Saluation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable Obedience makes them safe among any part of men that profess the foundation Christ. Likewise there 's no question but many were saued in corrupted times of the Church when their Leaders vnless they repented besore death were lost In other places he seemes to intimate that men may be sau'd in the Roman Church though the Truth by which he meanes the doctrine of Protestants be sufficiently proposed to them but not acknowledged by them as where he sayth Protestants indeed confess there is Saluation possible to be attained in the Roman Church but yet they say withall that the errours of that Church are so many and some so great as weaken the Foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to Heauen especially to them that haue had the Truth manifested Now surely if it be but very hard going that way to Heauen it is not altogether impossible Againe I am willing sayth he to hope there are many among them which keep within that Church meaning the Roman and yet wish the superstitions abolished which they know and which pray to God to forgiue their errours in what they know not and which hold the Foundation sirme and liue accordingly and which would haue all things amended that are amiss were it in their power And to such I dare not deny a possibility of Saluation for that which is Christs in them though they hazzard themselues extremely by keeping so close to that which is Superstition and in the case of Images comes too neere Idolatrie Item I doe indeed for my part acknowledge a possibility of Saluation in the Roman Church but so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they beleeue the Creed and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe not as they associate themselues wittingly and willingly to the gross superstitions of the Romish Church Js not this plainly to confess that euen those of the Roman Church who doe willingly and knowingly associate themselues to the gross superstitions of that Church may possibly be saued though not indeed as they doe this but as they are Christians and beleeue in the Foundation Christ Lastly when he asks as it were in anger would you haue vs as malicious or at least as rash as your selues are to vs and deny you so much as possibility of Saluation Euen Mistaken Charity if such it were is farre better then none at all And if the MISTAKEN be ours the NONE is yours etc. Doth he not cleerly pretend by this to be more Charitable that is to grant more to vs Catholiques in this particular of beeing sau'd then wee doe to them Seeing then that euen wee Catholiques grant possibility of Saluation to those who ioyne with the Protestant Church if theyr ignorance be inuincible wee cannot but suppose his pretended charity grants more to vs namely that there is possibility of beeing sau'd to those that ioyne with the Roman Church though their ignorance be not inuincible and though all or the chiefe motiues which Protestants bring against vs be neuer so sufficiently propos'd to them Now if on the one side both Catholiques and Protestants agree in this that such as hold all the opinions of our Church and continue in them till death notwithstanding their beeing thoroughly acquainted with all the contrary reasons and doctrine of Protestants may attayne Saluation and if on the other side all Catholiques as well those that now are as the infinite multitude which hath been since a thousand yeares last past according to Protestants own account and confession doe deny possibility of beeing sau'd to such as liue and dye in the Protestant Church except in case of inuincible ignorance who can doubt but that our Church is cleerly the safer way of the two to Saluation and therfore in prudence to be embraced rather then that of Protestants 2. But what shall wee say to those Protestants who grant no more to vs then wee doe to them in order to Saluation How shall those among our Aduersaries be conuinc'd that the Roman Church and Religion is the safer way to Heauen who will allow none of our Religion to be in a capacity to Saluation but such as are in no capacity of knowing and vnderstanding their errours J might bring many arguments to conuince them in this point but for breuity sake J shall confine my selfe to these only which follow That Church and Religion is the more safe way to Saluation in which many are saued according to the principles which are granted on both sides then an other in which many are sau'd only according to the principles or doctrine of one party but very few or none according
greatest and most considerable pair of the Catholique Church what reason could the Apostle haue to shy that the doctrine of forbidding Marriage and eating certaine meats was a doctrine of 〈◊〉 and that those who held it should sall from the 〈◊〉 why might not the teachers of such doctrines be a part of the Catholique Church as well as the Donatists and those that maintaine other dangerous opinions which in the Bishops iudgement doe Shake but doe not ouerthrow the Foundation of true Fayth necessary to Saluation or if they might be a part of the Catholique Church notwithstanding their departure from the Fayth by holding of such doctrines what shall hinder but the Arians and all other Heretiques whatsoeuer if they 〈◊〉 the doctrine of Christ may notwithstanding their errours and how euer they vnderstand the words of Christ pretend to be parts of the Catholique Church whose common voyce wee 〈◊〉 bound to heare and with all submission to obey 〈◊〉 see here good Reader what a Church the Bishop assigns the to heare and follow vnder paine of beeing in as bad or perhaps in 〈◊〉 worse condition then an Heathen and Publican 4. His Lordship next taske is to impugn the Argument which A. C. brings to proue that the Roman Church and Religion is the safer way to Saluation because both parties viz. Catholiques and Protestants doe agree that Saluation may be had in it but doe not both of them agree that it may be had in the Protestant Church and Religion The Bishop brings 〈◊〉 instances to shew that this Agreement of both parties is no sufficient ground to thinke that ours is the safer way His first instance is this The Baptisme of the Donatists was held true and valid both by 〈◊〉 Donatists themselnes and the Orthodox also but that of the Orthodox was held true and valid only by the Orthodox and not by the Donatists yet none of vs grant that the Orthodox were bound to embrace the Baptisme of the Donatists as the safer way of the two How then does it follow that a man ought to embrace the Roman Church and Religion as the safer way to heauen because both parties agree that in the Roman Church there is possibility of Saluation but doe not agree there is the like possibility among Prorestants This is the Summe and 〈◊〉 of his first instance To which J answer that no Orthodox could embrace the 〈◊〉 of the Donatists as the safer way but he must committ two sins the one of disobedience to the Orthodox Church which so bad communication with Donatists and all other Heretiques in diuine Rites such as the administration of Sacraments is the other against Fayth which obliged him to beleeue the Baptisme of the Orthodox to be as safe as the other Now how could any man be fuyd to take the safer way to Saluation by embracing the Baptisme of the Donatists for the agreement of both parties touching its validity when the greatest and most considerable 〈◊〉 to witt that of the Orthodox hold it cannot be done except in case of necessity without damnable 〈◊〉 which dobarrs the soule from heauen 〈◊〉 whereas the case put by vs is quite different from this For wee suppose Protestants grant a man may line and dye in the Roman Church and that none of his errours shall 〈◊〉 his Saluation whatsoeuer motiues he may know to the 〈◊〉 But no 〈◊〉 did euer grant that a man might with a snse Conscience embrance the donatists Baptisme knowing the 〈◊〉 reasons and command of the Orthodox Church to the contrary or that a man who had so embrac't the Baptisme of Donatists might liue and dye with possibility of Saluation except he acknowledg'd his fault and repented of his 〈◊〉 You will say perhaps that as a man ought not to receiue the Donatists Baptisme thought valid in the iudgement of both parties because the Orthodox held it 〈◊〉 and forbad it vnder paire of sinne so 〈◊〉 may a Protestant who is taught by scripture or otherwise and is fully persuaded that the Roman Church and Religion containes many gross errours contrary to Gods words embrace the Roman Church and Religion though both 〈◊〉 great possibility of Saluation in the sayd Church and Religion J. answer and acknowledge that as a few 〈◊〉 or Arian is not bound to embrace the Orthodox Faith of Christians so long as he is fully persuaded that its a false and 〈◊〉 beleefe so neither is a protestant bound to embrace 〈◊〉 Religion so long as his conscience tells him that it 〈◊〉 errours and superstitions contrary to Gods word But J say withall that as a few Mahumetan and 〈◊〉 were bound to alter their iudgement concerning the pretended erroncousness and falsity of the Orthodox Fayth if sufficient motiues were propounded to him and that according to the principles of both parties the Orthodox Fayth were the safer way to Saluation so likewise a Protestant would be oblig'd to embrace our Religion if sufficient motiues to alter his present iudgement concerning our pretended errours were offer'd to him and that it could be prou'd by the ioynt principles of both Protestants and Catholiques that Catholique Religion were the safer way to Saluation Now that by the ioynt principles or doctrine both of Catholiques and Protestants our Religion or Fayth is the safer way wee haue already prou'd in our first Argument and that Protestants may haue sufficient motiues to alter and depose their present iudgement touching our pretended errours whensoeuer they will attend to them is sufficiently euidenced from hence seeing an infinite multitude of persons who haue as good naturall witts as themselues as tender consciences as themselues haue read and ponder'd the controuerted passages of scripture as much as themselues vnderstand all contrary reasons and obiections as well as themselues yet belecue with absolute certainty as diuine Truths those very points which Protestants conceiue to be errours 5. Tho other instances which he brings seeme rather to argue a weakeness in the Relatour's iudgement then in the Argument he impugns In the point of the Eucharist sayth he all sides agree in the Fayth of the Church of England that in the most Blessed Sacrament the worthie receiuer is by his Fayth made spiritually partaker of the true and reall Bodie and Bloud of Christ truly and really Your Roman Catholiques adde a manner of this his presence Transubstantiation which many deny and the Lutherans a manner of this presence Consubstantiation which more deny If this Argument be good then euen for this consent it is safer Communicating with the Church of England then with the Roman and Lutheran because all agree in this truth not in any other opinion Here are many words spent to small purpose For first can a man be sayd in any true sense to communicate rather with the Church of England then with the Roman or Lutheran only by beleeuing that where in they all agree and yet the Bishops Argument supposes this But put case by
if neither Generall Councils nor any man in the world be of infallible creditt who sees it not to follow there can be noe infallible creditt amonge men noe not in the whole Church euen in points Fundamentall For seeing noe testimony can be of infallible creditt except it be know'n and that it is impossible for any man certainly to know eyther who those are that make vp the whole Church in the Bishops sense or that they doe all of them beleeue and testifie such a point of doctrine to be Fundamentall and absolutely necessary to saluation how is it possible for the whole Church in that sense to be of infallible creditt or to giue infallible certainty to any points whatsoeuer whether Fundamentall or not Fundamentall whether absolutely or not-absolutely necessary to Saluation To his Aduersaries demand why a Generall Councill if it may erre in defining one diuine truth may not erre in defining an other and so in all the Relatour answers by way of Confession that it may erre euen in all to witt of like nature vsing this limited manner of speech in all of like nature on purpose to auoyd inconueniencies and that he might vpon occasion take the aduantage of his wonted distinction between Fundamentall points For so presently as it were by way of anticipation he tells the Reader that of things not absolutely necessary to Sabuation or not-Fundamentall there can be noe necessity of infallible certaintie in the whole Church much less in a Generall Councill and consequently quently 't is noe matter with him though a Generall Councill be suppos'd lyable to errour in all such points as well as in any one But it sufficeth that wee haue already shew'n the contrary both for Church and Councill namely that in many cases it may be absolutely necessary for the Church to haue infallible certaintle of points in their owne nature not absolutely necessary to saluation or which is all one to haue such points when brought into controuersie amongst Christians infallibly defined by a Generall Councill so as wee need not trouble the Reader here with repetitions Nor could it serue his turn or iustify his assertion from beeing in the highest degree iniurious and derogatory to the honour and authority of Generall Councills though it were otherwise that is though wee had not already prou'd a necessity of infalliblydefining by Generall Councills all controuerted points of Religion whatsoeuer whether absolutely or not-absolutely necessary to Saluation For 't is certaine enough the Relatour holds that Generall Councills may possibly erre euen in points that are absolutely necessary to Saluation or Fundamentall as wee haue heretofore obseru'd though he declines somewhat the open profession of such a doctrine But this suppos'd lett his adherents tell vs what does his maxime if in one possibly in all proclaime but that a Generall Councill may not only fall into errour in defining some one or other point of Christian Fayth but euen totally Apostatize and define against Christianity it selfe A proposition sufficiently confuted by its own apparent impiety and which may iustly serue for a second instance of our Aduersaries sincerity when they profess fo much esteem and reuerence towards Generall Councills 4. Wee doe not say that Christ our Sauiour left infallibility in his Church to satisfie eyther contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits as the Bishop would seeme to impose vpon vs for 't is euident enough by the experience the world hath of the seuerall sects and Heresies of Protestants that such kinde of people will be satisfy'd with nothing but the full swing of their own obstinate and erroneous phansies Nor will wee Catholiques euer desert the confession and defence of it because such people will not be satisfy'd But wee tell them Christ left that legacy to his Church for these ends viz. to guide the humble and sober-minded securely and certainly in the right way of Saluation he left it also to curbe the contentious to restraine the curious and to giue sufficient checke to such presumptuous spirits as should dare in matters of such high and difficult nature as the truths and Mysteries of Religion are to be wise in their own eyes and to preferre their priuate phansies before the publique and generall iudgement of the Church and their own lawfull Ecclesiasticall superious none of all which ends could be effectually attain'd or duly prouided for without the sayd infallibility which therfore for the Relatour or any other out of priuate opinion to goe aboute to take away from the Church is without doubt both intolerable presumption and errour especially doing it vpon no better grounds and pretense of reason then he layes down here viz. because the Foundation that is in his sense all Fundamentall and absolutely-necessary doctrine is so strongly and plainly layd down in Scripture and the Creed Stongly and plainly layd down does he say Surely the Bishop when he wrote this thought little of those swarms of Arian and Socinian Heretiques who deny such points of Fayth as he himselfe grants to be Fundamentall To say those points are so strongly or plainly deliuer'd in Scripture c. as not to require some other infallible authority beside Scripture to support and make good our beleefe of them must needs argue a very strong preiudice to any man that duly considers how those controuersies are handled betwixt the Orthodox and them and how equally those Heretiques bandy texts with their Aduersaries both wayes that is to say as well vpon the offensiue as defensiue part as well by opposing the truth with the pretense and allegation of many Scripture-texts as by answering and euading what euer is by their Aduersaries argued out of Scripture for it or against them So as indeed a modest man to borrow a little of his Lordships own style may iustly wonder whither the Bishop would haue vs to runne for infallible certainty in those points if not to Generall Councill which yet he will by noe meanes allow vs to doe 5. But A. C. sayes the Bishop hath more questions to aske His next is how wee can according to ordinary course be infallibly assur'd that a Council erres in one and not in an other point when she equally defines both by one and the same authority to be diuine truths This may be thought a shrewd question too and the Relatour does a little discouer himselfe nettled by it in telling vs that A. C. turns Questionist here to disturb the business viz. which his Lordship had with Mr. Fisher and indeed the Church as much as he can Howeuer he answers the question by distinction thus If a Generall Councill erres sayes he eyther it erres in things absolutely necessary to Saluation or in things not necessary If in the first sort wee may be infallibly assur'd by the Scripture the Creeds the fowre first Generalls Councills and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in an other point Jf in the latter sort 't is not
cunning or malice of this speech or what does it containe but plaine reall truth and 〈◊〉 A. C. had prou'd through his whole discourse as wee likewise haue 〈◊〉 to doe in this or ours and the lady 〈◊〉 that the Protestant Church was not an Orthodox but 〈◊〉 Church that it protessed a salfe and corrupt Fayth so as a man could not communicate with it without making himselfe guilty of Heresie To 〈◊〉 this and yet goe to Church were euidently to halt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two opinions which in Religion is neuer lawfull 〈◊〉 doe It were to serue God and Baall too though neither of 〈◊〉 well Lastly it were to dissemble in that wherein it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 man more then in all other matters to be sincere and vse 〈◊〉 doubling 〈◊〉 to walke with integrity and 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 before God and the world For as the Scripture sayth 〈◊〉 2. 12. fearfull 〈◊〉 fearfull hearts and 〈◊〉 hands and to the 〈◊〉 that gods TWOE WAYES one in outward shew and protession and an other in the inward iudgement of conscience Is there now any such cunning or 〈◊〉 to admonish one of 〈◊〉 But the Relatour tells vs he neuer went about to proue that a Roman-Catholique beeing and 〈◊〉 such might against his conscience goe to Church Neither doth A. C. tell him that he euer 〈◊〉 about to proue it but yet in effect he did say it and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when he affirin'd that life lady beeing so persuaded as the was by Mr. Fishers report and as the Bishop himselfe 〈◊〉 did nor could 〈◊〉 her to haue been might more eastly 〈◊〉 to God for her coming to the English Protestant Church then for her going to the Roman which though he be pleas'd to 〈◊〉 with the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 yet that afters not the case at all to the 〈◊〉 who was otherwise persuaded of those things which he calls superstitions and errours nor doth it 〈◊〉 his assertion to plead as he doth that the Church of England is an 〈◊〉 Church and that he hath prou'd it so For still wee say the lady was otherwise 〈◊〉 she neither did nor could possibly thinke beeing thus persuaded in iudgement that the Church of England was an Orthodox Church or that the Bishop had sufficiently 〈◊〉 it to be such but rather 〈◊〉 the contrary How then is it possible for the Bishop to make good what he 〈◊〉 that though the lady were a Roman-Catholique yet she might more easily answer to God for coming to the Church of England then by 〈◊〉 English Church to communicate with Rome which is as much as to 〈◊〉 that she might more easily answer to God for coming to a Church wherein she verily beleeu'd Heresie and false doctrine was taught then for ioyning her selfe to a Church whose communion she verily beleeu'd was necessary to Saluation and wherein she was firmly persuaded that noe 〈◊〉 doctrine was taught by any publique allowance nor superstition practised for all this is necessarily implyed in beeing a Roman-Catholique Nay is it not manifestly contrary to his own professions here J say the same thing with A. C. viz. that 't is not lawfull for one that is resolued of the truth of the Roman Church to goe to the Church of England and in that manner to serue and worship God because that were to halt on both sides to serue two masters to dissemble with God and the world and that noe man may outwardly profefs a Religion in conscience know'n to be false 〈◊〉 Scripture for it Rom. 10. 10. For with the heart man beleeueth to righteousness and with the mouth he consesseth to Saluation adding withall that noe man can confess a know'n false Religion to his saluation Whence I argue Jf a Roman-Catholique beeing and continuing such may not against his conscience goe to the Protestant Church if it be not lawfull for one that is resolued of the truth of the Roman Church to goe to the Church of England and in that manner to ferue and worship God if noe man ought to beleeue Religion after one sort and practice it after an other if it be sinne to dissemble with God and the world in such maine points of Religion as are in controuersie betwixt Catholiqucs and Protestants how could the lady beeing suppos'd to be a Roman-Catholique better answer to God for coming to the English Church and leauing the Roman then for continuing to communicate with the Church of Rome what sinne could the Bishop thinke she committed by communicating with the Roman Church if in her heart she were a Roman-Catholique and apprehended nothing as superstitious and vnlawfull that was allowed by that Church but rather pious and godly In this she did nothing contrary to her conscience but in going to the Protestant Church she did that which was cleerly against her conscience and by consequence sinned in doing it Againe admitt there were errours and superstitions in the Roman Church as the Bishop will needs suppose yet how will he proue the lady should be in any sort answerable for them vnless wee suppose also that she held them against her conscience or by holding and practising them opposed the know'n truth which to doe were contrary not only to all Christian charity but euen to the 〈◊〉 own maximes who confesses that none but God and a mans selfe can know how farre he opposes truth in that manner and § 37. num 1. tells A. C. thus you are the happier in your errour that you hold nothing against your conscience especially if you speake not against conscience while you say so But this noe man can know but your selfe For noe man knowes the thoughts of man but the spirit of man that is within him 1. Cor. 2. 11. if now errours in Religion be not sinne so long as the person that holds them opposes not the know'n truth or holds them not against conscience and that by the Bishops own confession also 't was not possible for him to know that the lady by embracing our Fayth and Church did any thing contrary to her conscience or oppos'd any truth she knew vpon what ground could he condemn her of sinne in what she did or say as in effect he doth that she could not so easily answer to God for her doing so as she might for going to his English-Protestant Church wherein euen by his own grounds beeing suppos'd to be a Roman-Catholique she did manifestly committ sinne in doing against her conscience which is always sin more or less in dissembling with God and the world in matters of so great moment in halting on both sides and in beleeuing Religion after one sort and practising it after an other 6. As for what concerns Catholique Authours who may possibly affirm it lawfull in some cases and with due limitations for Catholiques to goe to Protestant-Churches there doctrine is necessarily restrained vnto such countries and places in which going to Protestant-Churches is no distinctiue signe of Religion that is where it
principles should haue this firme Sure and vndoubting Fayth concerning any mysterie of Religion They will say vpon the Authority of Gods Reuelation or the written word But Jaske how is it possible for them to beleeue any diuine truth firmly certainly and infallibly for the Authority of scripture or the written word vnless they doe first firmly certainly and infallibly beleeue that scripture is the true word of God and that the sense of the words is such as they vnderstand and how can they beleeue this most firmly and certainly if they neither are nor can be infallibly sure according to their own principles that the Church erreth not in deliuering such and such bookes for Canonicall scripture or that those passages vpon which they ground their beleefe are the very same with the Originall Text or in case they vnderstand not the Originalls that there hath been no errour committed in the Translation of them yea doe they not hold principles absolutely inconsistent with this certainty when they teach that not only priuate men but Generall Councils and euen the whole Church may erre in matters of great consequence How can they then be sure that the words of scripture for which they beleeue the Diuinity of Christ for example are to be vnderstood in that sense in which themselues vnderstand them and not in the sense which the Arians put vpon them If Generall Councils and the whole Church may erre in expounding scripture what certainty of beleefe can wee haue in this and in diuerse other like points Jf it be answered that Christs Diuinity is a Fundamentall point and that in Fundamentall points wee must beleeue the Church J reply this answer satisfies not the difficulty For J aske vpon what ground doe wee beleeue it to be a Fundamentall point if because the whole Church teaches it to be so and the whole Church cannot erre in points Fundamentall I answer it must first be proued that the Arians are no part of the whole Church for if they be a part of it the whole Church doth not teach it To say the Arians are noe part of the whole Church because they erre in Christs Diuinity which is a point Fundamentall is to suppose that for certaine which is principally in question That Christs Diuinity therfore is a point Fundamentall must be prou'd some other way then by the Authority of the whole Church If that way be scripture the former difficultie returns viz. how a man shall be sure according to Protestant principles that scripture is to be vnderstood in the Catholique sense and not in the sense of Arians And if it be any other way beside scripture according to Protestant principles it will not be infallible but subiect to errour and consequently will not be sufficient to ground infallible certainty 'T is euident therfore that Protestants standing to their grounds cannot beleeue eyther the Trinity or Christs Diuinity and Incarnation or the Redemption of mankinde by his death or any other mysterie and point of Fayth with that firmeness and certaintie which is requisite to an Acte of Fayth nay it followes that they cannot be altogether sure of these mysteries of Christian Religion as they are or may be of things related euen by heathen Historians seeing more agree that those things are true then that the sense of scripture in those controuerted points is such as Protestants vnderstand These Arguments wee conceiue sufficient to conuince any rationall vnderstanding that the Roman Church and Religion is a safer way to saluation then that of Protestants Lett vs now take notice of the Bishops answers and assertions touching this question 3. Whereas therfore Protestants doe commonly taxe vs for want of Charity because wee generally deny Saluation to those that are out of our Church A. C. proued that this denyall besides the threatnings of Christ and the Holy Fathers denounced against all such as are not within the Communion of the true Church is grounded euen vpon Charity it beeing farre more charitable to forewarn a man plainly of a danger then to let him run into it through a false security There is but one true Fayth Sayth he and one true Church out of which is no Saluation and he that will not heare this Church lett him be vnto the Sayth Christ himselfe Matth. 18. 17. as an Heathen and Publican If Saluation then may be had in our Church as the Bishop with other Protestants consessed and there be noe true Church nor true Fayth but one in and by which Saluation may be had as is likewise confessed it followes that out of our Church there is noe Saluation to be hoped for and consequently that it is no want of Charity in vs to tell Protestants of this but rather want of light and good vnderstanding in them to thinke our admonition to be vncharitable The Bishop himselfe confesses that he who will not both heare and obey the Catholique Christian Church yea the particular Church in which he liues too so farre as it in necessaries agrees with the vniversall is in as bad a condition as an Heathen or a Publican and perhaps in some respects worse But he errs very much in the conceite he frames of the Catholique Church that must teach vs it beeing a thing according to his description more like an Jdea platonica or Chimaera of some phantasticall braine then a true subsistent assemblie or Societie of Christians a thing as little able to speake or declare with requisite authority any certain and vniforme doctrine or matter to be beleeu'd as himselfe and his party are vnwilling to hearken to the truth For by the Catholique Church in his notion nothing else is 〈◊〉 vnderstood but a mixed multitude of all 〈◊〉 and facts of Christians viz. Greeks Armenians Lutherans Caluinists Prelaticall and Presbyterian Protestants Anabaptists 〈◊〉 and what not beside the Roman Catholiques But how is it possible that such a Church as this should euer instruct and command vs what to beleeue How shall a man that 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 or in any other remote part of the world heare the common voyed of a Church which speaks by the mouth of so many disagreeing parties or how shall a man be sure that such and such a doctrine is rightly commanded him by the Catholique Church taken euen in the Bishops own sense vnles he be first 〈◊〉 what the Fayth is without which it is impossible to be a part of the Catholique Church Lastly how shall he before that all who profess that Fayth doe also teach and command the doctrinal which in obedience to the Bishops 〈◊〉 Church he is requir'd to beleeue Againe if Donatists for any thing the Bishop 〈◊〉 held the Foundation and consequently were a part of the Catholique Church and if errours that come too neere 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 repugnant to the word of God and doe shake the very foundation of Christian beleefe as the Relatour pretends our opinions doe may be found in that which is 〈◊〉 the