Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	apostle_n	church_n	doctrine_n	4,033	5	6.2595	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08240	The copie of a letter sente to one maister Chrispyne chanon of Exceter for that he denied ye scripture to be the touche stone or trial of al other doctrines whereunto is added an appologie and a bulworke, in defe[n]ce of the same letter.	Nicolls, Philip.	1548 (1548)	STC 18575; ESTC S104162	27,471	96

answere suppose you they coulde make I thynke none other but as I haue made you before That is we knowe it by oure elders or holye prophetes and fathers before vs. Nowe I wyll aske you a questian whiche shall not be impossible nor verie vnlyke If it pleased God to moue the herte of a Iewe whiche wer neither christian nor turke to seke in the worlde here the moste perfecte religion He goeth to the Turkes and cometh to the christians Wherwyth woulde you perswad hym to thys perfect religion Woulde you preache to hym constitutions coūselles and customes of the elders He mought then as well beleue the turkes as you For they haue many thynges in their lawe that seme to be verie godlye And they re authoritie wythout authoritie of scripture is euen as good as yours But I knowe you wyl saye what so euer you thinke that you woulde preache the Gospell vnto hym Then must you nedes graunte that the scripture is of greater efficacie and strength them oure fathers elleders and counsayles If you wyll yet wyth your questians affirme that the fathers whyche descended frome tyme to tyme frome the Apostles hither to haue greater authoritye then the scripture I wyl axe you an other questian The Apostles of Christ forsoke the ceremonies customes and constitutions of theyr elders forefathers and of as holye mother holye churche in the iudgemente of the worlde at that tyme as yours is w t the world at thys houre and of as longe continuaunce of tyme. Yet folowed they Christes doctrine who was named of those holye fathers a sediciouse felowe a newe tidinges bringer and an heretike Answere me nowe what touchstone had they to trye Christes doctrine wyth that they so ernestlye folowed hym and refused theyr forefathers olde holye doctours proceadynge from Moyses to Christ Ther were at that tyme auncient fathers which had great learneing both byshopes and priestes The tradions ordinaunces and ceremonies whiche they vsed receyued they of theyr elders lyke as you woulde haue vs to receiue the constitucions of oure elders Tell me nowe how can you excuse the Apostles They were but pore fisher men and net makers they wer not brought vp in the scholes they hadde not the leisure toturne and tosse those greate volumes to be made doctours of deuinitie nor law And yet within a whyle they toke vpon them to teach the great doctours and what mought those holye fathers haue sayed to these fishers Take hede to your fysheynge What haue you to do wyth the scripture It is not mete for euerie coblarde to be talkeynge of scripture Howe were these men so lyghtlye perswaded What touchestone I saye had they But seynge you woulde so fayne haue the name of the holye fathers and holye churche I axe you thys questian Those Apostles and Disciples of Christe whyche were in hys tyme wyth hym presente whyche preached and wrote the scripture were holy fathers and of the perfecte true churche If the fathers syeth theyr tyme haue dissented frome them in doctryne maners custome lawes or in anye thynge partayneynge to Christes relygion whyche fathers woulde you folowe If you denye that the fathers haue dessented as is a fore sayed I refer the proue of it tyll a tyme of more leasure Partely because I thynke you wyll not denye it but chiefelye because my letter woulde be to longe Wherfore I wyl come to your thyrde question whyche in dede includeth the matter of all the reste whiche is thys If ther aryse anye contention in vnderstandeynge the Scriptures wherein boeth the parties bringe scripture for them whoe shall nowe discusse the matter Where is nowe the toucheston The scriptures can not For boeth bring scripture And the scripture you meane causeth y e cōtrouersye But I aske you whether the scriptures be deuided or no If they be deuided then accordinge to Christes worde they muste be confounded But that is an incōuenience and I knowe well you wyll not graunt that If the scriptures be not deuided but agre in one as they do in deede for one place cannot be repugnaunte to an other thoughe it so seme then haue not boeth parties scripture for them but y e one partie must nedes falsely alledge scripture But you will aske me who shal geue sentence or by whom the cōtrouersye shal be appeased and where is Luthers touchstone In dede at your sermō no man made answer Wherefore you made answere and sayde the holye gooste must be tuchstone As who should saye Luthers answere were not the very same When he sayeth gods worde must be the touchston as you reporte of hym And I praye you maister Chrispyn what difference is betwene gods worde and godes spirite Is not goddes worde the breath of gods mouthe And call you not that the holye goste Howe be it it is easilye perceyued what ye meane Ye put in the holye gost for a cloke to deceiue vs wyth albeit ye meane nothing lesse then the holye gooste If you aske me how I proue it I answer thus I proue it Wythout fayeth it is not possible to please God but fayeth cometh by the word of god Ergo wythout the worde of God nothyng can please God But you exclude the word of God from the spirite of God and in stead of that ioyne vnto it fathers counsayles and oure mother holy churche for you saye the worde of God can not be touchston ▪ but onelie beare wytnesse but the holye gooste is the touch stone whoe was and is in the holye fathers that haue alwayes gathered counsayles by whyche all thynges muste be iudged and dermined To proue thys ye alledge these wordes Where so euer two or three be gathered together c. These holye fathers you affirme to be the byshopes and prelates But thus to include the holye gooste into byshopes you exclude y e word of god If this be not to be disceiued sure I am deceyued But it were necessarie for you to proue the chur that you speake of to be the true-holye and catholyke churche before you perswade men so ernestye to belyeue and stycke vnto it But I saye the churche that taketh awaye the authoritye of goddes worde or diminisheth it by anye meanes is not of Christe But you mayster Chrispyne graunte youre selfe to be of thys churche Ergo etc. And in myne opinion you do naught to say that all holy fathers frō Christ to thys time wer of the same opinion that you be of concernynge goddes worde For I dare saye Augustine whome you admytte to be of the verye holye church wyll not hold wyth you in thys matter But if he woulde the authoritye of Christe is greater Whoe is it that wyll not suspecte your churche seynge you set it so high in Lucifers place aboue Christe and separate the hollye goste from Christe where as Christe sayeth I am that I say vnto you What is y t he spake vnto vs Is it not his word He saith moreouer the wordes y t I speake are spirite lyfe I