Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	apostle_n	church_n	doctrine_n	4,033	5	6.2595	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04482	The true copies of the letters betwene the reuerend father in God Iohn Bisshop of Sarum and D. Cole vpon occasion of a sermon that the said Bishop preached before the Quenes Maiestie, and hir most honorable Counsel. 1560. Set forthe and allowed, according to the order appointed in the Quenes Maiesties iniunctions. Cum gratia & priuilegio Regiæ Maiestatis per septennium.	Jewel, John, 1522-1571.; Cole, Henry, 1500?-1580. aut	1560 (1560)	STC 14613; ESTC S107807	107,547	377

to answer many thīgs in one Wherein your wordes because they came flowing down in aboundaunce lyke a Streame they caryed away a great deale of ●…ime and baggage with them First where ye graunte that ye of your syde haue varied and do yet vary from the custome of the Primitiue churche I can not but commend your plaines therin in telling the trueth But where then is your antiquitie becum where be your auncient doctoures Where be the fiftene hundred yeares that ye haue so much talked of If ye woulde graunt the same in the pulpit opēly before y e people that we require the vse and order of the Primitiue churche and that ye of your parte maintain your priuate masse your supremacy your vnknowen prayers and the most parte of your religion contrary to thesame that our doctrin is olde and that yours is new If ye woulde but graunte this simply plainly before the people we woulde desyer no more at your handes But ye say further that the examples of the Apostles and doctours vinde you not that in theyr tyme the church was but an infāt and that many thinges that were good for her in that age would be hurtfull to her in this age And therto notwithstanding your recognisaunce ye alledge S. Augustin and S. Ambrose wherin I haue cause sumwhat to 〈◊〉 at your doinges that nowe can so franckely bring in your doctoures to so smal purpose afore in matters of weght touching the greatest part of the contencion y t standeth ●…etwene vs durst not once name one doctor for feare of youre Recognisaunce At the last ye conclude that it were an error to say we are boūd of necessity to folow the vse of the Primitiue churche To make you a full and a clear answer hereunto I must nedes vse this distinction There were sum orders in y e Primitiue church commaunded by God and sum other were deuised by men for the better trainyng of y e people Such orders as were commaunded by God may not be chaunged in any case only because God commaunded thē For as God is euerlasting so is hys worde and commaundement euerlasting Of the other syde suche orders as haue ben deuised by men may be brokē vpon sum good consideracion onelye because they were men that deuised thē For as men them selfe be mortall so all theyr wisedomes and inuentions be but mortall As that the communion should be vsed in the mornynge or at night That womē should cum to the church ether couered or opē faced wherin ye say Saint Peter toke order That the ministers goods shoulde be all in comen or otherwyse c. These other lyke were things appointed and ordered by men and therfore were neuer vsed in all places of one sorte But as they were brought in by men so might they be dissolued brokē by men In these things I graunt the exāples of y e doctours or Apostles bynd vs not In these thinges it were an errour to saye we are bounde of necessitie to folow the vse of y e Primitiue church These and other like thinges they be that S. Ambrose speaketh of whom ye at Westminster alledged in the case ye then entreated of directly making against youre selfe And we when we heard you name him first marueled muche what ye ment to medle with hym aboue al others For as touching y t commen prayers to be had in a straunge tong whiche matter we had then in hād S. Ambrose semeth of purpose to controlle both you your brethren in maner one whole chapter through wrytinge vpon y t. xiiii chap. 1. Cor. And farther the examples that he vseth in the place where ye alledged hym are these That the deacon in the Primitiue churche vsed to preache and in his tyme preached not and that women in the Primitiu●… churche vsed to baptyse in his 〈◊〉 baptysed not and that in 〈◊〉 ●…tiue church the Sacrament of Baptysme was ministred at all tymes indifferentlye without difference of dayes and that in his time it was ministred onely vpon certain daies And yet in your church contrary to the order of s. Ambrose both women baptise deacons preach and children are baptised euerye day without difference of tyme. Thus ye would seme to folow S. Ambrose and yet alledge hym in suche places where youre selfe moste of all varye from hym But perhaps your mind was occupied or ye had not thē leysure to marke hym better Hetherto I thinke we agree y t touchīg such things as haue been ordeyned by men we are not boūd of necessity to the order of y t Primitiue church But of the other parte I say y t such thinges as God 〈◊〉 cōmaūded precisely by hys word may neuer be broken by any custome or consent And such be the thynges y t we now require at your hands not deuised by men but commaūded by God to last for euer Onlesse ye wil happely say as Montanus did that God hath reuealed both mo thinges and also better thinges vnto you then euer he did vnto his Apostles or els as Manicheus said that the Apostle sawe nothing but onely in speculo in aenigmate or as your doctour Siluester Prierias saith Indulgentiae non habent authoritatem ex verbo Dei sed habent authoritatem ab Ecclesia Romana quia maior est Pardons sayth he haue no ground of gods worde but they haue theyr groūd of y e church of Rome which is a great deale more The cup which ye haue takē frō the people is not a ceremony but a part of the Sacrament And as good right as ye had to take that part away so good right had ye to take away also the other and so to leaue the people nothing atal And therfore y t old father Gelasius saith aut integra percipiant aut ab integris arceantur ether let thē receine y e hole Sacramēt y t is to say vnder both kindes or els let thē be put from y e hole By which words of the olde doctor Gelasius it may appeare y t onlesse both partes of the Sacramēt be receiued together the Sacrament is mangled not whole Again to pray in such a tong as the people may vnderstande and therby be edified is not a ceremony to be changed at mans pleasure but the commaundement of God for Paul whē he had spoken long therof concludeth at the end Si quis est Propheta aut spiritualis sciat quod quae scribo domini sunt praecepta If any mā be a Prophet or spiritual let him wel knowe y e the things y e I wryt are the commaundemēts of God Prayer in y t vulgare knowē tong S. Paule saith is the cōmaundemēt of God and not an order taken by man Again for any one man to take vpon him to be vniuersal Bishop of the hole churche S. Gregorye sayth it is both against the Gospel of Christ and also against the olde canons and a●…cient orders of the churche

that I alledge be against my self then are you the more beholding to me For they can not lightly make against me in this case but they must nedes make for you Yet I praye you shewe me by all your Logik howe holdeth this argument of yours Christ proued that the Phatisees were not Abrahams Children that a man may not put away his wyfe for euery cause Ergo. this matter maketh quite against me ME thiketh here is a very shorte Sillogismus I merueil where you lefte your Medius terminus You should haue squared it better before it had past your hands As for the allegation it maketh euidently for me For as I saide Christ stode then vpon the negatiue against the Pharisies as we do now against you ¶ Sarum EUen so when Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople had taken vpō him to be called vniuersall Bishop of the whole Church which title afterwarde the bishop of Rome began to vsurpe to him self for the maintenāce of y ● same hath oftentimes disquieted and shaken the whole world but when the Bishop of Constatinople first began to vse this title Gregorie beinge then Bishop of Rome confounded him only with the negatiue Nemo said he decessorum meorū hoc profano vocabulo vti voluit None of my predecessours which had continued from Peter downward for the space of sir hundred yeres after Christ wolde euer vse this vnchristianlik lewd name Lib. 4. Epist. 80. And againe Epist. 9●… ▪ Sancti ante ●…eg●…m Sancti in ●…ege Sancti sub gratia omnes perficientes corpus domini in membris sunt constituti The holy men before the Law the holy men vnder the law the holy men vnder the grace of y ● Gospell altogether makīg vp one body of the Lord are placed amongst his mēbers But none of them wold euer suffer him selfe to be called vniuersall I haue chosen me specially these examples bicause they seme to serue me to double purpose Thus Gregorie reasoned then as we do now only vpon the negat●… and if the Bishop of Constātinople had ben able to proue but one affirmatiue y ● any Bishop of Rome afore time had vsed that title or that euer any mā other before the law or vnder the law or vnder the Gospel had suffred him self to be called vniuersall bishop then had Gregorie bene confounded ¶ Cole TWo purposes against your self Gregorie proued a negatiue bicause none of his forefathers euer vsed that title As one might say that you preach is naught bicause mē in times past taught not so This parre of Gregory serueth no whit to dispro●… the So●…eraintie as Dr●…do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 you vouchesaue to read him The reply Sarum YOu saye I bringe Gregorie against my selfe God be thāked you are able to bring ne●…her Gregorye nor any els that in anye of these matters may but seeme to make with you But if Gregorye stande vpon the negatiue as I doo and as you your selfe confesse he maketh sufficiētly to my purpose Nowe iudg you whether these proufes be negatiues or no. Nemo decessorū meorū hoc pro●…ano vocabulo vti voluit Or this Nemo se vniuersalem dici voluit And say not I alledg matter against my self onl●…s ye haue wher with to disproue it better You answer farther y t one might say y ● lyke against vs y e we preach this day is naught bicause mē in times past taught not so Like as Gregorye found fault with Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople for y t he ●…titled him self an vniuersall Bishop of y ● who le Church where as none of his preder●…ssours durst euer-take that name vpon him In dede this aunswer mighte haue sum shew if mē in times past had neuer taught so as we teachnow But I doubt not but herein your owne learning conscience crieth out against you For you knowe that the matters that lie in questiō betwene vs haue ben taught as we now teache them bothe by Christe him selfe and by his Apostles and by the olde Doctours and by the auneient generall co●…celles and that you hauing no●… of these or lyke anthorities haue set vp a Religion of your own built it only vpon your self Therfore I may iustly and truely conclude y ● you now teach and of lōg time haue taught the people touching the Masie y ● Supremacie the Commē prayer c. is naught for neither Christ nor his Apostles nor the olde Doctours Tertullian Ciprian S. Hierom S. Augustin S. Ambrose S. Chri●…om c. euer taught the people 〈◊〉 as you haue taught them You say this place serueth me nothing against the supremacie I marueil muche you say not it ferueth you to proue the Supremacie Gregory saith no Bishop of Rome vntill 〈◊〉 time which was vi r yeres after Christ wold euer be called the vuiuerial Bishop He saieth that Leo his predecessour re●…used y t name notwithstanding it were offred vnto him in y ● generall Councell of Chalcedon He saith it is a proud a prophane title and a name meere for Antichrist He saith who so euer will take y ● name vpon him is Antichristes forerunner He saieth to consent to suche a name is the denyall of y ● faith And yet saye you he speketh not one word against the Supremacie Here would I 〈◊〉 be answered one thinge by the waye if no Bishop of Rome would euer take vpon him to be called the vniuersall Bishop or head of the whole Church for the space of vi c. yeres after Christ where then was the head of the vniuersall Church all that while Or howe could it then continewe without a head more then now For nowe you say it is vnpossible Or if the Church had no vniuersall head in the earth for so lōg a time after Christ why do you now fournish out the Bishop of Romes authoritie in y ● hearing of y ● vnlearned with such a glorye face of antiquitie As if the Bishop of Rome had euer bene named the head of the Church sence the tyme that Peter came first to Rome But bicause your self were not able to auoid the force of Gregories words you did wel to 〈◊〉 me oner to Doctour Dr●…do ¶ Sarum BUt as thouching the custome of the Scholes I trust ye haue not yet for gotten that Aristotle geueth order to the opponent in many cases to require an instant of the respondent ap I do now at your handes And what is that els but in denial to defend the netiue and to driue y ● aduersary to 〈◊〉 the affirmatiue ¶ Cole If you read again the place in Aristotles 〈◊〉 you shall see there the better to vnderstand it He speaheth it wher men dispute Di●…etice in such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we do not And therfore it serueth not your purpose But I tel you yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I cum not to disputo but to learn The Reply Sarum I Neuer thought it had bene so high a misterie to vnderstand y ● nature of all Instāt Childrē

teache the people that y ● masse ex opere operato That is euen for that it is sayd done is able to remoue any parte of our synne Or y t then any chrystian man ealied the sacramēt hys Lord and God Or that the people was thē taught to beleue that the bodye of Christ remayneth in the sacrament as long as the accidents of the bread remayne there wythout cortuption Or that a mouse or any other worme or best may eate the body of Christ for so sum of our aduersaries haue sayd and taught Or that when Christ said Hoc est corpus meum Thys word Hoc pointeth not the bread but Indiuiduum vagum as sum of them say Or that the accidens or formes or shewes or breade and wyne be the sacramēts of Christs body and blo●…de not rather the very bread and wyne it self Or y ● the sacrament is a sygne or token of the body of Christ y ● lyeth hiddē vnderneath it Or that ignoraūce is the mother and cause of true denotion and obedience These be the highest misteries and greatest keyes of theyr religion without them theyr doctrine can neuer be mainteyned and stande vp ryght If any one of al our aduersaries be able to auouche any one of all these articles by any such sufficiēt authority of scriptures doctours or Councelles as I haue required as I sayd before so say I now agayn I am content to yelde vnto him and to subscribe But I am well assured they shall neuer be able truly to alleadge one sentence And because I knowe it therfore I speake it lest ye happelye shoulde be deceyned All this notwithstandynge ye hau ehearde men in tymes paste alledge vnto you councelles doctours antiquities successions and long continuaunce of tyme to the contrarye And an easye mater it was so to do speciallye before them that lacke eyther leysure or iudgement to examine theyr proufes On a tyme Mithridates the kynge of Pontus layed syege to Cizicum a towne ioyned in frendship to the Citye of Rome Whych thynge the Romanes hearynge made out a gentleman of theyrs named Lucullus to rayse y ● siege After y t Lucullus was within the sight of y t towne shewed himself with his company vpon the syde of an hill thence to geue courage to the Citizens within that were hesseged Mithridates to cast th●… into despaire and to cause thē the rather to yelde to hym made if to be noysed and bare them in hand that al that new company of souldiers was his sent for purposely by him against the Citye All that notwythstandynge the Citizens within kepte the walles and yelded not Lucullus came on raised the siege wanquished Mithridates and slew hys men Euen so good people is there now a siege layde to your walles an armie of doctours and councelles shewe them selues vpon an hill The aduersary y t would haue you yelde beareth you in hand that they are their souldiers stande on theyr syde But kepe your hold the doctours and olde catholike fathers in the pointes that I haue spoken of are yours ye shall se the siege raised ye shall se your aduersaries discomfeited put to flight The Pelagians were able to alleadge S. Augustin as for them felf yet when the mater came to profe he was against them Heluidius was able to alleadge Tertullian as making for him selfe but in trial he was against him Eutyches alleadged Iulius Romanus for him selfe yet in dede was Iulius most againste hym The same Eutiches alleadged for him self Athanasius Cyprian but in conclusion they stode both against him Nestorius alleadged the counsel of Nice yet was the same councell found against him Euen so they that haue auaunted them selues of doctoures and Councelles and continuaunce of tyme in any of these pointes wh●… they shal be called to tryal to shew theyr profes they shall open theyr handes fynd nothing I speake not this of arrogācy thou Lord knowest it best that knowest all thynges But for as much as it is Goddes cause and the truth of God I shoulde do God greate iniurye if I shoulde concele it But to returne againe to our mater There be sum that say y ● no masse is priuate or to be taken as y ● action of one priuate man For they say y ● priest that saith masse here doth communicate with an other priest that saith Masse sum other where where so euer it be the distance beyng neuer so great Thys commissiō semeth very large For so may the priest that saith masse in Englande or Scotland communicate with the priest that is in Calicute or in the farther moste part of India And by thys meanes should there be no excommunication at all for the partie excōmunicate might say he wold communicat with the pr●…est whether he would or no. But Saint Paul gloseth not y ● matter on this sort but saith Alter alterum expectate That is tary ye one for an other And again he saith when ye cum together ye cannot eate y ● Lordes supper for euery one of you taketh his own supper aforehand Sum others say the prieste maye communicate for the people and that is as meritorious vnto them as if they had communicate them selfe But what commission hath the prieste so to do or from whō or what certeyne knowledg hath he that his receyuinge of the communion shal be auailable for the people for if it be so what neded it then Christ to say Accipite bibite ex hoc omnes ▪ Or if we may receyue the sacrament of Christes body one for an other why maye not we aswell be baptised one for an other Why may we not aswel confesse our faultes before the cōgregation and receyue absolucion on for an other Whi may we not heare the Gospell and beleue one for an other O that these folies so weake and so vain without shew or shadowe of any truth shoulde euer synke into a Christian heart or take place in Goddes religion S. Paule saith Qui manducat bibit indignè iudicium sibi māducat bibit Who so eateth or drinketh vnworthely eateth drīketh iudgement not vnto others sayth S. Paul but to him selfe Againe S. Paul saith who so beleueth in him y ● iustifieth the wicked not the faith of any other man but hys own faith is rekened to him vnto iustice S. Chrisostom saith It is the heresie of the Martionites to thinke that any one man maye receyue the sacrament for an other therfore he maketh light of such disorder of the sacramentes calleth them Sacramenta vicaria Origene saith Ille est sacerdos propitiatio hostia Est enim Agnus Dei qui tollit peccata mundi ▪ Quae propitiatio ad vnumquemque venit per viā fidei He is our priest saith Origene he is our attonement he is our sacrifice For he is y ● lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world Whiche attonement saith he cōmeth vnto vs ●…ot by the