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A13170 A ful and round ansvver to N.D. alias Robert Parsons the noddie his foolish and rude Warne-word comprised in three bookes, whereof, the first containeth a defence of Queene Elizabeths most pious and happie gouernment, by him maliciously slaundered. The second discouereth the miserable estate of papists, vnder the Popes irreligious and vnhappy tyrannie, by him weakely defended. The third, toucheth him for his vnciuill termes and behauior, and diuers other exorbitant faults and abuses, both here and elsewhere by him committed, and cleareth his vaine obiections and cauils. Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629. 1604 (1604) STC 23465; ESTC S117978 279,569 402

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Praescript aduers Haeret. disputeth against the heresies of the Valentinians and Marcionites drawing arguments from the Apostles preaching and tradition But that was because they denyed and corrupted Scriptures For no man can deny but that their heresies are clearely conuinced by Scriptures Quod sumus hoc sunt That we are that they are saith Tertullian speaking of Scriptures That is likewise the meaning of Vincentius Lirinensis de Haeres cap. 27. for that depost of which he talketh is nothing but the Christian faith contained in scriptures But if Parsons will prooue his rule of faith he must shew a faith grounded vpon tradition that is not deduced out of Scriptures Nay if he will not be contrarie to himselfe he must shew that not the Apostles tradition as he saith in his Warn-word 1. Encoun cap. 15. but the Catholike church is the rule of faith as he holdeth Ward-word Encontr pag. 6. He doth also obiect against vs diuers alterations of religion in England in king Henry the eight his raigne Warn-word Encontr c. 16. and in king Edwards dayes and then asketh by what authoritie our rule of faith was established But first he might as well haue spoken of the alteration made in Q. Maries dayes when the impieties of Popish religiō were established by act of Parliament Secondly the alterations in religion made in England of late time make no variation in the rule of faith that is alwayes one but in the application and vse of it Thirdly albeit by act of Parliament the articles of religion were confirmed wherein the canon of scriptures and the substance of our confession is set downe yet was that rather a declaration of our acceptance then a confirmation of the rule of faith that in it selfe is alwayes immoueable Our rule of faith therefore is certaine albeit not alwaies in one sort approued or receiued by men But the rule of Popish faith neither in it self nor in the approbatiō of Parliaments or Churches is certaine or immoueable Finally he asketh a question of Sir Francis in his Ward-word p. 5. how he knoweth his religion to be true And saith he hath only two meanes to guide himselfe in this case and that is either Scriptures or the preaching of our Ministers But this question as I haue shewed toucheth himselfe that busideth his faith vpon the Pope nearer then Sir Francis who groundeth himselfe his faith only vpon the holy Scriptures and is assured of his faith not by these two meanes onely but by diuers others For beside Scriptures he hath the help of the Sacraments of the Church of Gods spirit working within him of miracles recorded in scriptures of auncient Fathers of the practise of the Church of the consent of nations of the confession of the aduersaries of the suffering of Martyrs and testimonies of learned men and such like arguments In this question therefore Robert Parsons shewed himselfe to be a silly Frier and to haue had more malice then might In time past also we were as shéepe going astray and out of the vnion of the Catholike and Apostolike Church Diuers of our auncestors worshipped the crosse and the images of the Trinitie with diuine worship Some like bruite beasts fell downe before Idols crept to the crosse and kissed wood and stone Others worshipped Angels the blessed Virgin and Saints praying vnto them in all their necessities trusting in them saying Masses in their honour and offering incense and prayers to their pictures and images For so they were taught or rather mistaught by popish Priests The Romish synagogue in the very foundations of religion was departed from the Apostolike and Catholike Church The schoolemen brought their proofes out of the Popes Decretals and Aristotles Metaphysickes Est Petri sedes saith Bellarmine in Praefat. ante lib. de Pont. Rom. lapis probatus angularis pretiosus in fundamento fundatus The See of Peter is an approued corner stone precious and laid in the foundation The same man lib. 2. de Pont. Rom. cap. 31. calleth the Pope the foundation of the Church Sanders calleth him the Rocke Alij nunc à Christo saith Stapleton relect princip doctr in Praef. eorúmue doctrina praedicatio determinatio fundamenti apud me locū habebūt That is Others now beside Christ and their doctrine preaching and determination shall be esteemed of me as a foundation This he saith where he talketh of the foundation of religion and the Church But the catholike Church had no foundation beside Christ Iesus and his holy word and Gospell taught by the Prophets and Apostles The Apostle Gal. 1. denounced him accursed that taught any other Gospell then that which he had preached The holy Fathers proued the faith by holy Scriptures and not by popish Decretals and philosophicall Principles Concerning Christs bodie the Romanists taught that the same is both in heauen and in the Sacrament albeit we neither could see it there nor féele it But the scriptures teach vs that his bodie is both palpable and visible Luk. 24. Mar. vlt. and is now taken vp into heauen So likewise teach the Fathers Vigilius in his fourth booke against Eutyches speaking of Christs bodie When it was on earth saith he surely it was not in heauen and now because it is in heauen certainely it is not on earth They haue also brought in new doctrine concerning Purgatorie and indulgences and which is no more like to the auncient catholike faith then heresie and noueltie to Christian religion They teach that whosoeuer doth not satisfie in this life for the temporall punishment of mortall sinnes committed after baptisme and remitted concerning the guiltinesse must satisfie for the same in Purgatorie vnlesse it please the Pope by his indulgences to release him Of the tormentors of soules in Purgatorie and of the nature qualitie and effect of indulgences they talke idlely and vnlike to the schollers of Catholikes The Catholicke doctrine concerning the Sacraments of Baptisme and the Lords supper they haue quite changed in Baptisme adding salt spittle hallowed water exorcismes blowings annointings light and other strange ceremonies In the Lords supper taking away the cup from the communicants and not deliuering but hanging vp or carying about the Sacrament and worshipping it as God and finally beléeuing holding transubstantiation They haue also deuised other sacraments and taught that they containe grace and iustifie They were wont to kisse the Popes toe and to receiue his dunghill decretals worshipping Antichrist and intitling him Christs Vicar All which nouelties superstitions and heresies by her Maiesties godly reformation are abolished who hath restored the auncient Catholike and Apostolike faith which the Popes of Rome for the most part had altered suppressed She hath also by her authoritie brought vs to the vnitie of the Catholike faith and by good lawes confirmed true Christian religion Before our times there was no settlement in matters of Religion Durand denieth Diuinitie to be Scientia Thomas and Richard Middleton hold that it is Writing vpon the
Popes agents and countrimen Bonner in his preface before Stephen Gardiners booke De vera obedientia sayth that the Popes prey in England was so great that it amounted to as much almost as the reuenues of the Crowne The English nation complained to the Pope in the synod at Lyon in the dayes of king Henry the third Math. Paris in Hen. 3. of diuers enormous pillages and exactions made by him and his officers but could find no remedy The Emperour Ibid. as Mathew Paris testifieth found fault with the King of England for that he suffered his countrey to be impouerished so shamefully by the Pope Imperator reprehendit regem Angliae saith Mathew Paris quod permitteret terram suam tam impudenter per Papam depauperari If we account the tenths first fruites rents comming of dispensations about Ecclesiasticall benefices for mariages and vowes money for licences to eate flesh and white meates to kéepe concubines to erect new societies and orders of Friers money for indulgences and pardons canonizations of saints erecting of Churches for rescripts of iustice for absolution from othes for sale of Masses and such like Babylonish merchandize we shall find that the summe doth farre excéed Bonners accompt So iniurious was the Pope in extorting and so patient was this land in bearing all burdens that worthily it deserued to be called the Popes asse Nay such corruption was entred into the Romish church that no act of religion could be executed without paying somewhat At christening they paid a chrisme cloth at buriall a herse cloth Neither could any be maried or housled or absolued but somewhat was paid At Candlemasse they offered candles at another day bread and because bread would not downe without drinke they offered also good ale in some places By these meanes the priests of Baal liued vpon the poore mans labour and got the husbandmans cow the artificers instruments and what euery man had from the owners and pressed the very marrow out of the common peoples bones To all these pillages from which king Henry the eight of famous memorie and his sonne king Edward had fréed vs Quéene Mary did make her people subiect She also put her people vnder the bloodie hands of the butcherly Romish inquisitors Bonner Gardiner Storie and their fellowes which contrary to iustice and all good forme of proceeding caused foure or fiue hundred to be put to most cruell death in a short space and were the occasion of the death of many hundreds more that either for want or by diseases died being driuen to leaue their houses and to shift for themselues Some also died in prison before they came to their triall Whosoeuer would not forsake the truth was driuen to forsake his countrey kinred friends and to flie into strange countries for succor So we sée murder tortures banishments bands and persecution of Gods saints were the monuments of her raigne Therefore it pleased God to afflict this countrey with a great penury and dearth the like was not heard of for many yeares before nor since Our histories say that wheate was for foure markes the quarter and mault for 44. shillings which considering the rate of things is twise or thrise so much as that summe amounteth vnto now Hereupon it came to passe that the people were constrained to make bread of acornes that had refused the bread of Gods word and that many died for extreme want and penury and yet was not the country halfe so populous as now Finally to her perpetuall dishonor and the shame of all Papists she lost Calice Ghines whatsoeuer by the kings of England was left her in France King Edward the third that most victorious prince wanne Calice and she like a most disastrous Quéene lost it neither did any thing prosper that she tooke in hand In the beginning of her raigne she was driuen to flie into Suffolke disguised and had by all likelihood lost both her life crowne and hope if the professors of the Gospell of Norfolke and Suffolke had not resorted vnto her and defended her against those that pursued her for the which she promised them liberally but performed nothing They deliuered her from danger and she contrary to her promise deliuered them vp to the bloudy executioners to be pursued with fire and fagot She maried with a stranger to the great dislike of all true hearted Englishmen But well was she requited For her husband neuer did well like her and in the end he went from her and did in a manner forsake her Great hope she had to leaue vs a king of her owne body to raigne after her but her expectation was turned into a mockerie and all the Masses said and prayers deuised and offerings to Saints relikes for her safe deliuerie tooke no effect The saying of the Prophet Psal 7. was fulfilled in her She conceiued griefe and brought foorth iniquitie Concepit dolorem peperit iniquitatem Salomon for that he was a iust Prince had a sonne giuen him to sit vpon his throne after him as we reade 1. King 3. Was not then this mercilesse Quéene iustly punished with barrennesse for making so many childlesse Without cause she fell at variance with the French entring into her husbands quarrell But she spent her labour and treasure in vaine left the state in debt and lost all she did aduenture for At the sea she was most vnhappie losing a goodly shippe called The great Harrie by fire and hauing no successe in any thing And so it appeareth that she liued and died disgracefully leauing no memorie behind her but of cruell persecution of Spanish slauerie and of disgrace dishonor and losse to our nation Neither doth any accompt otherwise of her then as of a woman vnhappie in her mariage cruell in persecuting Gods Saints vngratefull to those that were her best friends vnkind to her subiects disastrons in all her enterprises The like successe had those kings of England that were most forward in the Popes seruice Before king Henry the seconds time the Popes agents had litle to do in England He was the first that gaue them grace But sée his reward The Pope maintained Becket and other his rebellious subiects against him and forced him to most disgracefull and base conditions of agréement Furthermore the Popes agents in his time found such fauour that vntill the raigne of king Henry the eight this Land could neuer be ridde of them King Richard the first for the Popes pleasure crossed him selfe for the holy land and went thither with great forces of men and royall prouisions But nothing he gained beside a vaine name of a valiant man On the other side his losses and disgraces were excéeding great For first he lost most of his fléete then he lost the best part of his men Thirdly he lost diuers good townes in France where his enemies tooke aduantage of his absence Fourthly he was taken prisoner in his returne Fiftly he impouerished himselfe and his countrie in leauying money for
But speaking English we no more call letters of that argument Epistles of Persecution then we call discourses of Parsons his ribaldry and bastardy Epistles of ribaldry and bastardy But nothing is more ridiculous then that he calleth the Catholike church the squire and pole-starre of our faith Before saith he we had a direct rule Wardw. pa. 6. squire and polestarre to follow which was the vniuersall Church in which words he maketh rule and squire all one and confoundeth the Church which is ruled with the rule it selfe Such a lusty ruffler is Sir Robert that he can turne rules into squires and make the workeman and worke all one with the rule He doth also mainetaine that the Catholike Church doth properly teach Which spéech if it be proper then we may say aswell that the Catholike Church singeth or walketh or doth any singular act And then it would follow that particular actions may be done of general bodies It would follow also if the Catholike church teach that the Catholike Church is not taught which is absurd and contrary to the rules of relation Hauing spent the vttermost of his malice in scolding and scurrilous rayling in the end of his answere he tendreth me an offer that if I will go forward in this contouersie with Christian modestie and conuenient termes of ciuilitie as men professing learning ought to do that he will be content to answere me with the same stile But therein he sheweth singular simplicitie first confessing that himselfe hath neither vsed Christian modestie nor conuenient termes of ciuility nor done as he ought to do and next desiring others to hold their hands when he hath done his worst feareth returne of blowes But the foole must not thinke to scape without controlement hauing shot forth so many bolts against vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let him therefore haue patience to heare our answere to his vnchristian and vnciuill termes and then I will thinke him more wise in making his offers will shape him an answere by his owne cut taking the length of a wooden felow with a crabtrée measure It is also the part of a foole to prayse himself Neither do any fall into their owne extrauagant prayses but for want of wit Yet doth this fellow tell vs of his memorable workes in the end of his answere to my Epistle talketh of his owne merit with God credit with all good men I will therefore remit him to be censured by an old grammer schoole author that borroweth the name of Cato Nec te Collaudes nec te vituperes ipsum hoc faciunt stulti quos gloria vexat inanis And because he is a big burly and tall fellow I will say of him as one sayd of a foole of his pitch quanta est longitudo profunditas tanta est stultitia that is The mans folly reacheth as farre as he is thicke or long Fol. 19. b. in his notes and obseruations he affirmeth very foolishly That al Popes from Iohn the first to Leo the tenth were all of one religion Which if it were true indéed then should all those popes be of no religion Of Iohn the 23. it is said That he did affirme beleeue In append Conc. Constant that the soule of man died with the body like to brute beasts that mens bodies did not rise at the last day And this he cōfirmed with other articles exhibited against him with his own hand as is euident in the Appendix of the acts of that Councell Alexander the sixt was a man without religion Humana iura nec minus caelestia ipsosque sustulit deos saith one of him that is He tooke away the lawes of man lawes of God and God himselfe Leo the tenth did no otherwise accompt of the Gospel then as of a fable as his words to Cardinall Bembus testifie The like may be affirmed also of many impious Popes Let Parsons therefore beware that he proue not his consorts to be infidels and himselfe a consort and slaue of infidels Fol. 41. he saith D. Giffard hath his Deanry by true adoption Which is a matter most ridiculous For others haue their Deanries by election and not for respect of kinred by adoption much lesse for dealing against his country or for treason Fol. 43. he talketh of chirping of sparrowes cackling of hennes pratling of dawes chiding of women and of a foole that said to one that had a great nose that he had no nose Which argueth that the man had neither nose nor braine nor good sence cackling like a broode henne chirping like a sparrow pratling like a daw scolding like a butter womā braying like an asse and barking like a curre Fol. 81. he talketh of the patience of papists which I wonder that any man can reade with patience For neither do they teach patience nor practise it if any occasion be giuen to the contrary Was not this then a ridiculous sot to talke of the patience of Lombards or papists Fol. 100. he affirmeth That the sum corps of Christian doctrine was deliuered at the beginning by miracles Now we confesse it was confirmed by miracles but how it can be deliuered by miracles Parsons will be much encombred to shew without shewing himselfe a wondrous wisard Fol. 106. he would haue the actes of the wicked conuenticle of Trent confirmed and allowed by kings as auncient Emperours confirmed the faith published in the Nicene Councell But it is folly to desire matters so absurd and plaine impiety to compare the hereticall decrées of Trent with the faith of the Nicene Councell To proue the saintlinesse of Thomas Becket in his 2. encontr c. 10. he alleageth the Popes canonization But what is more ridiculous then to talke to vs of the Popes canonizations who proceed commonly by hearesay without party and as it séemeth for mony would canonize a horse Secondly he alleageth for witnesses Herbert Hoscan Iohn Salisbury Allen of Teuxbery William and Edward Monkes of Canterbury Peter Bloys and others But all these witnesses are not worth a messe of Teuxbery mustard For what auaileth it to rehearse names of dumbe idols that passe by and say nothing Againe if I may be so bold I will answere Parsons in his owne termes You see what cogging it is one of them to alleage another Fol. 77. rehearsing the words of Th. Becket out of Houeden Do you not seeme to heare in this place saith he the voice of S. Iohn Baptist to his king Herod Where I may answere him with his owne words and say not vnfitly Do you not see a fellow with a face as hard as a lopster that doth compare Th. Becket and his cause to Saint Iohn Baptist and his constancie the first contending for profit and idle panches the second for the law of God Ridiculously also he compareth Thomas Becket to S. Ambrose a holy doctor of the Church the said Thomas being nothing else but an idle preacher of priueledges preiudiciall to Princes and not so
Iesus He doeth also match vs with Arrians and other sects which we detest But these are points in controuersie to be proued Fol. 17. he sayth that the Councel of Trent was gathered by like authoritie as that of Chalcedon was A matter vtterly denied by vs and not any way proued by him Nay it is most absurd to compare that reuerend synod assembled and moderated by the Emperors authority and proceeding according to scriptures to a conuenticle of slaues sworne to Antichrist and assembled by his writ and doing all according to his pleasure Fol. 20. a. he sayth It cannot be proued that any one Pope impugned his predecessor in matters of faith As if al our pleading were not that the later Popes do impugne and ouerthrow the faith of the first bishops of Rome Themselues also deny not but that Agatho condemned his predecessor Honorius for a Monothelite In the same place also affirming that all the Popes and Bishops of Rome from Iohn the first to Leo the tenth held one faith he saith that this demonstration is as cleare as that three and foure make seuen But this seuen and seuen yeare he shall neuer proue that which with a light fingar he taketh as granted is clearely false For the instruction giuen to the Armenians in the synode of Florence and the decrees of the Conuenticle of Constance were neuer holden of Popes before them Nor did former Popes beléeue the doctrine of the Conuenticle of Trent Fol. 77. b. he taketh as granted that a hundred haue bene put to death for being priests and for being ordained to that function beyond the seas and for defending the faith belonging to that function and that great numbers are dayly apprehended arraigned and condemned for standing in their fathers faith and resisting nouelties Both which are notorious vntruths For neither in the arraignement of priests or others is any question made of faith nor is that louzy patched religion that Papists hold ouer and aboue our faith the faith of the Apostles or Fathers nor are priests executed simply for being priests but because they come from forrein enemies and are combined with them which alwayes hath bene accounted treason Fol. 80. he talketh idly of sending money out of England for defence of heresie for he beggeth of vs that which he shal neuer obtaine that popery is religion and true religion heresie and that we maintaine heresie Fol. 104. he sayth Our Beleefe is different from the rule of faith receiued before throughout Christendome and that our religion hath no ecclesiasticall authoritie for her establishment beside the parliament matters taken vp vpon credite by this bankerout friar that shall neuer be able to proue the least part of them For we make no question but to proue against him that our faith is Apostolicall and Catholike and the popish faith not and that it hath bene confirmed not like the louzy superstition of Papists by lies dreames legends and the Popes decretals but by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets What almes then doth this impudent begging frier deserue forsooth a motley coate with foure elbowes and a square motly bonet in stead of a cardinals hat For nothing is more odious nor foolish then that any vnder faire shews and good termes should couer euill déeds Asserentes Antichristum as Cyprian saith sub vocabulo Christi that is striuing for Antichrist vnder the name of Christ De simplie praefat In schoole Geometricians desire their schollers to grant them certaine plaine propositions that from them they may procéed to demonstration of further matters But to take as granted matters false and to begge at the hands of aduersaries things plainely denied is rather a practise of fooles then of schooles CHAP. XIIII Parsons his pride both in praising of himselfe and threatning and despising others is noted NOt he that praiseth himself saith the Apostle 2. Cor. 10. but he whom the Lord praiseth is allowed How happeneth it then that Parsons is so busie vpon euery occasion to praise himselfe Are his actions so memorable and worthy to be praised Certes no. For nothing can be deuised more odious the man employing himselfe wholly either in trecherous packing against his countrey or leud libelling and railing against honest men Further he sheweth excéeding contempt in speaking of others In ore stulti virga superbiae saith Salomon In the mouth of a foole is the rod of pride Prouerb 14. What then shall we thinke of his leud and presumptuous spéeches Shall we suppose that any is disgraced by them We should then assuredly greatly wrong them Falsae sunt diffluxerūt somno similes extiterunt impiorū iactationes The vants of wicked men are false and vanish away being like to sleepe as saith Gregory Nazianzene orat 2. in Iulianum And yet it shall not be amisse to note this Thrasonical fellowes vaine proud and contemptuous spéeches In his Epistle to the Reader he calleth himselfe a Catholike man and yet is he nothing but a barking curre Againe he saith he wrote a temperate Wardword preuenting his neighbours that should haue praised him and calling his bedlem fits temperate words Afterward praising his owne doings he sayth the Wardword seemed to touch the matter too quicke And yet all indifferent readers will confesse that it is a dull and dead péece of worke and like the droppings of a stond of old ale wherein he sheweth that he and his consorts are combined with publike enemies a matter percase that may touch him and his consorts But the same no way can hurt vs. He vanteth that he ended the whole answer to that which was sayd against his Wardword in few moneths And yet like a bankerout writer he hath onely sent vs and that after long expectation a simple péece of an answer vnto two encounters onely and so euilfauouredly péeced together that his friends haue need of a packthreed wit to make matters to hang together Speaking of vs he saith we handle matters of religion confusedly and with litle order sinceritie or truth But Athanasius apol 2. saith That the law of God permitteth not an enemy to be either iudge or witnesse Lex Dei inimicum neque iudicem neque testem esse vult Furthermore how can he without blushing talke of religion and order and truth that hath neither dramme of religion nor graine of truth nor vseth any sinceritie or good course in his writing In his answer to my Epistle he saith That albeit I challenge like a giant yet when I come to gripes I shew my selfe one of the poorest and weakest wormes that euer lightly hath come to combat in these affaires And afterward he threatneth that I shall be soundly beaten But if he be the giant and I so weake a creature as he giueth out why doth he encounter none of my books written against Bellarmine Why doth he not set forth somewhat in Latin Why doth he giue his railing libels written in English to be turned into latin by others As for mine