And is not this the voyce of all Protestants whatsoeuer onely Scripture onely the Gospell onely the worde of God and for the first part what is more common in the mouthes of the Germaine Lutherans of the French Caluinists and now of the Flemish Guets than this complaint that we presse them with the Emperors diets with the Kings proclamations and with the Princes placards to the which they obey as much as the Donatists when they haue power to resist Remitting your rayling Rhetorike Master Stapleton to your common places your argument is very fonde and faultie First if this be a simple and generall proufe of Donatists to say we bring the onely Gospels you will make Christ a Donatist to for he brought the onely Gospels And his Disciples and Apostles Donatistâ—… for they brought the onely Gospels and sayde they knewe nothing but Iesus Christ crucified they deliuered no other thing than that they had receyued and accursed him that should bring any thing besides this onely Gospell Ye will make the fathers Cyprian Chrysostome Ambrose Hierome Augustine c. become Donatists that will vs in all trialles of any point of doctrine to bring the onely Scripture the onely Gospels the onely worde of God Againe for the other part if this were a proufe of a Catholike to bring 〈◊〉 imperatorum sacra the letters of many Emperours and to complaine hereon the token of a Donatist then was Athanasius diuerse other godly Bishops Donatists also the Arrians Catholikes And your selfe with M. Feck alleage the complaints of Athanasius belike to proue him a Donatist This therfore M. St. thus simply set forth maketh but a simple argument Ye should either proue that we do bring the onely Gospell and complaine of your Princes diets Proclamations placards after the maner that the Donatists did or else ye proue nothing but your selfe a malicious slaunderer We bring the onely Gospels to you as Christ his Disciples and the holy fathers brought them to vs and yet bring we not the Gospell so alone that we bring not also the fathers writing thereon we also bring both Princes diets Proclamations and placards so farre forth as they mainteyne set forth and agrée with the doctrine of the onely Gospels Otherwise can ye wyte Athanasius if he complayned when he were pressed wyth them Can ye wyte the poore Protestants in Germanie Fraunce Flaunders if they so much as complaine that ye presse them wrongfully euen as your selfe in plaine wordes confesse thâ—…t ye presse them in déede with the Emperors diets with the kings Proclamations and with the Princes placardes Neuerthelesse if ye pressed them lawfully and as Constantinus pressed the Donatists I warrant ye no Protestant would once complaine thereon But ye presse oppresse them with nothing but mere violence to maintaine your errours besides and against the worde of God. And to this purpose your selues play the right partes of the Donatists for as the Donatists peruerted and wrested the scriptures to shake the authority of princes froÌ„ themselues which otherwise they admitted so farre as pleased them so do the popishe priests peruert and wrest the scriptures to reiect the Emperors and other Christian princes authoritie ouer them and vpbraid vs saying Illâ—… porâ—…ant multoruÌ„ imperatorum sacra They bring many of the Emperors letters that is we presse them with the authoritie of princes when we require that ye giue as much and no more authoritie vnto Princes than the onely worde of God doth warrant them But you will giue them no more nor yet their sacra their diets proclamations or placarts than shall serue your turne And thus your selues are most Donatists in this poynt Your last comparison is of the Donatists murdring of others and of themselues and yet canonizing of suche for Sainctes and Martyrs This comparison ye stretched out with large outroades nothing agaynst the Bishop nor to the matter and in déede nothing but extréeme rayling and scoffing agaynst master Foxes booke to whome I remittâ—… the quarels that you lay vnto him who is able at the full to aunswere them As for me I will aunswere onely to the comparison for murthering and canonizing wherein the Papists excell all other If ye had master Stapleton alleaged the Monke that poysoned himselfe to poyson his prince the Pope that to poyson his welthie Cardinals dronke him selfe of the wrong Bottell had ye tolde that men said of the death of the two late Cardinalles in Englande or howe good a medicine for the heade ache your Popishe Priestes haue made of the Sacrament of the aultare as ye termâ—… it and what Princes they haue poysoned therewith If ye had tolde of your Italian perfumes and Spanishe figges for the pippe ye might well master â—…tapleton haue confirmed your comparisons from the Donatists murders But what néede such priniâ—… tokens in so open a matter Your hate charitie to heape burning coales on your aduersaries heaâ—…s too many haue felt and all the world doth knowe For murther the Donatists be nothing comparable nor yet Barabaâ—… the Iew nor nere a théefe in Newgate to the blâ—…dthirstie Papists Ye say Saint Augustine sayth of the Donatists viueb ant vt latrones morâ—…ebaÌ„tur vt circumcâ—…liones honorabantur vt martyres They liued like robbers they died lyke Circumcelions meaning they fiue themselues they were honoured as martyrs True in déede master Stapleton and ye put me in remembrance of another saying that went in thrée parts to I trowe it was of an honest man of your religion of whom it was sayd 〈◊〉 vt vulpes regnabat vt Leo moriebatur vt canis He entred like a Foxe he reigned like a Lion he died like a dogge And yet ye count him one of Gods holy vicars And I pray ye call to minde another common saying that went also on three partes euen of your Popish canonâ—…zed Saincts that some were worshipped aâ—… Saincts in heauen that liued full wickedly here in earth and are now tormented with Diuels in hell this did men say master Stap. anâ—… they were Papists that sayde so to Ye tâ—…ll vs of the Montanists that worshipped one Alexander for a worshipfull martyr though he suffred for no matter of religion but for mischieuous murther What is this to the Donatists master Stapleton or that which ye tell vs of the Manichees worshipping the day of their master Manes death The worship of dead men good or bad or the kéeping of solemne dayes as in the honour of them is proper to you popish 〈◊〉 not to vs We kepe a memoriall I graunt but of these onely whome we are most infallibly assured that they be the blessed Sainctes of god Howbeit we worship not them nor the day for them nor them by the day wée worshippe onely GOD in spirite and truth as Christ hath taught vs But you that so worshippe deade men will yée worship none for Martyrs but those that dyed for matters of Religion Whie
the church in euery cause wherof it is not otherwise disposed in the new testament is to be holden of the law of nations or of lawe ciuil To this I answer First this in part is true but in part so false that himself confutes himself making exceptioÌ„ of diuers things in the ciuill power that sproong immediatly froÌ„ God neither were those things as he falsly saithe Circa res terrenas about earthly matters but about ecclesiasticall matters in the law of Moyses And although their ceremonial causes and iudicials pertayning to ecclesiasticall matters in the ciuil power be taken away with the ceremoniall and indiciall lawe of the Iewes yet the ciuil power hath like authoritie in the like causes ecclesiastical of the new testameÌ„t as is shewed out of S. Aug. against M. St. the Donatistes Secondly where he sayeth all the ciuil power nowe of christian kings and Emperors is all of the law of nations or ciuil except in cases otherwise disposed in the new testament I answer this may well be graunted and yet the ciuil power hath authoritie ouer ecclesiasticall persons in causes ecclesiastical for so not only in the old testament but also in the newe Testament it is playnly disposed Thirdly to this diuision of the original of both these estates that the ecclesiastical is from God immediatly the ciuil by other meanes I answere this distinction faileth both by his own tale saying Ciuilis à deo plerunque est per media quaedam the ciuil power is oftentimes from God by certain meanes If it be oftentimes by certaine meanes then it is not alwayes and but accidentall not of the nature of the estate for so it is also immediatly from God. And the like accident falleth out likewise of the ecclesiastical estate that although the power be immediatly from God yet many causes in it called Ecclesiastical be also Per media quadam humani ingenij interposita by certain meanes of mans wit put betwene For this cause sayth M. sand the ciuil power among the heathen that know not god is found to be the same that is extant with faithful kings although Christ wold not haue such power in the ministers of his kingdom for he said the Princes of the nations rule ouer them and they that are iuniors exercise power ouer them so shall it not be among you I answere first Maister Saunders this is a like slander to M. Stapletons fo 29. a. b. The ciuil power is not found to be the same in heathen Princes that knowe not God and in Christian Princes that know God there is a very great difference betwene these so different estates wherin the one acknowledgeth all his power to be of God and hath it described and limited by Gods word the other takes it al for hu main naturall not so much as knowing God by your own confession from whome the originall of it springeth Secondly to that you saye suche power is debarred by Christe from his ministers If yée meane by suche power suche power as is among the Heathen suche is not onely debarred from them but from christian Princes too If ye meane suche power as Christian Princes haue is debarred from the ministers of Christ then say ye true But howe then dothe youre Pope chalenge and vsurpe bothe suche and the same also Yea your selfe afterwarde reason moste earnestly thoroughout all the fourth chapter following that the ministers of Christe may haue it Wherin ye speak cleane contrary both to Christ and to your self Thirdly I note this eyther youre grosse ignoraunce or your impudent falshood in altering the wordes of Christe He sayth not they that are iuniors or yongers the Texte is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they that are great whiche are cleane contrarie If M. Stapleton were your aduersarie he would rattle ye vp Master Saunders for so foule a scape Nowe to fortifie a difference betwéene the Ecclesiastical power and the Ciuill he vrgeth that the spiritual kingdom of Christ is in this worlde but not of this worlde as for the earthly kingdome is bothe in and of this world but the ecclesiasticall power is the spirituall kingdome of Christ therfore there is a difference but the spirituall kingdom of Christ excelleth all worldlyâ—… kingdomes therfore they are stark fooles that in any ecclesiasticall thing to be administred preferre the earthly kings before the pastors of the Churche I answere all these conclusions are impertinent If there be any follie it is to striue for that that is not in controuersie We graunt a difference betwixt both powers and kingdomes althoughe a question is to be moued what he meaneth here by ecclesiasticall power If he take it as the Papistes do we denie that ecclesiasticall power to be the spiritual kingdome of Christ. For their ecclesiasticall power is ouermuch not in the worlde but of the worlde also If he meane by ecclesiasticall power the spirituall kingdome of Christ as he in his word hath ordeyned the fame although there be a difference betwene the power in the kingdom and the kingdome in the which the power is yet we graunt this gladly that no wise man will preferre the earthly kings in any spiritual thing to be administred before the pastors of the churche But this is nothing againste the earthly kings preferment ouer the spirituall pastor to ouersée him rightly and spiritually to administer his spirituall things in the ministration whereof all earthly kings oughte to giue place vnto him which we did neuer denie And sith there is no comparison betwene Christ the sonne of God who is also God himself and a creature of the law natural or ciuill neither is there any comparison betwixt the power ecclesiastical which is wholly giue vnto vs by only Christ the mediator the power royall which either altogether or almost altogether is not ordeined of God but by the lawe of nations or ciuill for although God hath reuealed froÌ„ heauen that belongeth to the power royall if notwithstandyng that pertained not to eternall saluation which is hid in Christ but to contein peace among men that is to be reckned to be reuealed no otherwise than to be a certain declaration which he had grafted in vs by Nature or else euen necessitie ought to haue wroong out of vs or profite according to the seedes of nature ought to haue brought to light I answere first we graunt that the ecclesiastical power not as the Papists stretche it but as it is giuen vnto vs by only Christ the mediator is farre superior without all comparison than the royal power of Princes Howbeit this hindreth not but as the ministers are mediators thereof to vs the royall power of Princes hath againe an other superior gouernment to ouersée that there be no other ecclesiasticall power exercised by the mediation of the Minister than Christ the only mediator hath ordeyned And to remoue all popish â—…oysting in giuing vs quid pro quo whiche when
Pope is the supreme head of the Church 36. a. Master Hooper was so answered by M. Feckenham c. 37. a. After all this your long trauaile wherein ye haue to the most vttred all your skill ye are so farre from full aunswering his scruples and stayes that they seeme plainly to be vnaunswerable and your selfe quite ouerborne and ouerthrowne and that by your owne arguments and inductions as we shall hereafter euidently declare 38. b. I referre mee to your scriptures fathers Councels practise of the Church that ye would seeme to rest vpon VVhereby neuerthelesse you your selfe shall take a shamefull foyle and fall VVherefore go on a Gods name and bring forth your euidences go on I say in Gods name master Horne and prosecute your plea stoutly 40. a. b. Nowe therefore go on master Horne and being at your first encountring ouerblowne and discomfited with your owne blast thinke well whether it is likely that ye shall hereafter bring agaynst your aduersarie any thing c. 42. a. VVee freely graunt you that Princes may sharply punishe teachers of false and superstitious religion c. for I say to you that you and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion 42. a. I trowe it will be harde for you to bring forth any act of parliament or any other conuenient and sufficient plea. 42. b. The olde ordinarie Latine glose I am right sure M. Horne it hath no such thing 42. b. His scripture c. reacheth nothing home to his pretensed purpose but rather infringeth and plaine marreth the same as I haue sayde and fully standeth on our side So I doubt nothing it will fare with his examples as Moses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias And that they all come to short and are to weake to iustifie his assertion But here am I shrewdly encombred and in great doubt what to doe for I could make a short but a true aunswere that these ensamples are fully aunswered alreadie 43 a. This one aunswere might well serue for all the kings doings now following sauing I wil particularly descende to euery one and for euery one say somewhat Here I wish to encounter with master Nowell 45. a. Master Nowell fretteth fumeth with master Dorman who shall coole him well ynough I doubt not 49. a. Ye haue hitherto brought nothing effectuall c. the contrary is by vs auouched sufficiently proued c. bring forth that king that did not agnize one supreme hed c. ye haue not done it nor neuer shall doe it and if ye coulde shewe any it were not woorth the shewing c. what president haue ye shewed of any good king 53. b. That the Popishe religion is the vsuall religion a thousand yeares and vpwarde 53. b. VVhat euidence haue ye brought forth c. what can ye bring forth out of the olde testament to ayde and relieue your doings c. what can ye shewe c. what good induction can ye bring c. what good motiue can ye gather c. what thinke ye that ye can perswade vs c. are ye able suppose ye to name vs any one king c. O M. Horn your manifolde vntruthes are disciphered and vnbuckled ye are espied ye are espied I say well inough that ye come not by a thousande yeardes and more neare the marke Your bowe is to weake your armes to feeble to shoote with any your commendation at the marke yea if ye were as good an archer as were that famous Robin hoode or little Iohn VVell shift your bowe or at least wise your string Let the olde testament go and proceede to your other proufes VVherein we wil now see if ye can shoote any streighter for hitherto ye haue shotte al awrie and as a man may say like a blinde man see nowe to your selfe from henceforth that ye open your eyes and that ye haue a good eie and a good aime to the marke we haue set before you If not be ye assured we will make no curtesie eft soones to put ye in remembrance For hitherto ye haue nothing prooued that Princes ought which ye promised to proue c. 55. a. Answere the fortresse Master Horne annexed to Saint Bede if ye dare 55. b. Belike the worlde goeth verie hard with you 56. a. Ye shall anon heare of it 56. a. Master Feckenhams heresie is so secrete and priuie that Argus himselfe with all his eies shall neuer espie it no nor M. Horne himselfe let him prie neuer so narrowly 56. b. Ye haue heard of your auncestours before perhaps and that ◅ by me 56. b. I forbeare at this time of the residue of your noble progenitors hauing in other places as I noted before spoken largely of the same 57. b. Come forth once and cleare your selfe of this only obiection if ye can being so often pressed therewith 57. b. 58. a. Cleare your selfe if ye bee able I assure you M. Horne you and all your fellowes will neuer be able to auoide this one onely obiection 58. a. As I haue proued you your companions open and notable heretiks so shal I streight way purge M. Feck to be no Donatist or any heretike otherwise for any thing yet by you laid to his charge But now M. Horne beware your self c. beware I say for I suppose I will lay more pregnant matter in this behalfe to your their charge thā ye haue or possible can do to M. Feck or any other Catholike VVhereof I dare make any indifferent reader iudge If I should amplifie this matter at large it would rise to a prettie volume 58. a. Aunswere then to my third demaund in the fortresse annexed to Saint Bede 59. b. I shall trace him and smell him out well inough 60. b. Your great Canons come not nigh his hold by 1000. miles They will not beate downe a verie paper wall 62. a. Here might we euen by your owne rule crie out vpon you al as Apollinarians and Eutichians 63. a. And for my part master Horne that you may not thinke I haue now beene first so aduised vpon sight of your booke I haue forced that argument with many examples of godly Emperours and Princes in my Dedicatorie Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie before the translated Historie of the venerable Bede 65. b. VVe say that you are wicked deprauers of religion 65. b. VVe say ye are as great blasphemers as euer Christes Church had c. we say further that not only the general councel of Trent but the whole church hath condēned your opinions by general national coūcels many hūdred yeres since 65. I heare say master Fox is busie to set forth a fresh in print yet once againe his huge monstrous martirloge I will doe so much for him as minister him plentie of good stuffe I warrant you to set forth adorne at his next edition 66. b VVell I will bring ye as I thinke a substantiall and an ineuitable proofe 66. b. Though I graunt you all that ye haue
examining of this matter hastneth to the full determination and solemnly sitteth downe like a Pope him selfe or Patriarth pronouÌ„ceth the definitiue sentence of this matter saying The premisses beeing true and of oure side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought agaynst them so master Horne as ye shall euidently perceiue in the processe straggleth quite from all these poynts Ha sir howe Popelike ye haue handled all this matter But were it lawfull to appeale from your sentence or call it in question mightâ—… it not be asked whether the promisses were all true Yea might it not be doubted whether they were not all moste false mighte it not be thoughte that it were scarse abundantly proued of your side to say the Catholikes say so and I say so and masâ—…er Fecken vvill say so Might it not be suspected that ye still say ye haue proued it ye will proue it better â–ª ye shall hereafter shew it playnely â–ª we shall euidently perceiue in the processe and presently that we can perceiue ye proue nor shevve any thing at all and so sitte downe to sentence as though the matter were out of all doubte and controuersie determining solemnly that al these premisses be true and M Horne erreth in defending the contrarie This is an harde lawe M. Stap. presently to condemne and behead the man and then after to examine the facte But it is the dayly practise of your holy father and so lyke a good sonne ye follow his ensample But now sir whereto were all these sixe so vndoubted principles broughte foâ—…rthe They are say you the principall questions in variaunce betvveene the parties controuersed to fixe their eye vppon What are these but questions that were suche true and infallible principles righte nowe If they be but questions I see they bée still disputable for all master Stapletons definite sentence A man maye still doubte of them yea dispute of them And they may chaunce proue as false in the ende after diligent discussing them as master Stapleton without further doubt would haue them presupposed to be true But to saue all vprighte he sayth they are the principall questions controuersed betvveene them and yet master Horne dothe not once touche them he commeth not nighe them What doth he not man not once touch them nor come nighe them and yet M. Feck and he be most at variance about them What a variance is that belike he alloweth them go to go to M. Stap. leaue this fonde lying for shame Your selfe knoweth ech man may see that he toucheth and toucheth home as occasion serued him all those of them that were incident to his matter Some of them in déede he little medleth withall as questions principally sucked out of your owne fingers and deuised nowe by you to defeate all that he touched as though he touched other things and not the matter in question from the whiche ye say he straggleth quite But this is your doing M. Stap. ye bring in newe controuersies that were not the issue betwéene them on whiche you should haue fixed your eyes But the B. so touched the matter he had in variaunce and so touched you also that thus malapertly woulde varie with him and hitte you so full that your eyes stared belike in your head that ye coulde not or woulde not sée the question but quite straggled from it to other questions and those also which we must graunt ye for principles and theiâ—… no doubt but ye will conquere all alone These newe premisses béeing thus craftelie deuised and set vp by you as the principall questions in variaunce betvveene them that striued cleane about another matter as though neither the B. nor M. Feck sawe where aboutes they striued noâ—… fixed their eyes any thing néere their matter But fought more Andabatarum beating the ayre and them selues they wiste not about what and béeing nowe reuoked to their matter by you that neuer caste your eye so much as one glimpse aside therefrom these béeing also suche principall matters as muste withall of our liberalitie be graunted you for moste assured principles thinking nowe all is proued on your side M. Horne say you straggleth quite from al these poynts besetting him selfe all his studie and endeuour to proue that vvhich neither greatly hindreth our cause nor muche bettreth his and for the which neither M. Fek nor any other Catholike vvill greatly contende vvith him vvhich is vvhen all is done that Princes may meddle and deale in causes ecclesiasticall Ye do nowe like a liberall gentleman M. Stap. graunt vs more than some of your highest estates euer would allow Cardinall Hosiâ—…s durst not be so frée to Princes as to graunt them thus much as mouere sermonem to moue any talke of ecclesiasticall matters and dare you that are nothing like to come to so â—…ye promotion graunte that Princes may medle and deale with causes ecclesiastical What moued you hereto belike ye still dreamed of your former Papall sentence and that we had graunted or we must néedes graunt bicause you haue sayd so that these are the principall questions and these are also moste true principles â–ª and that nothing can effectually be brought agaynst them which when ye presupposed we must néedes graunt ye were content to graunt agayne to the B. that straggling as ye say from these poynts that whiche he proueth mayâ—… well be graunted him that Princes may medle and deale vvith causes ecclesiasticall But nowe sir put the case that this were but your owne fonde dreame that he graunteth you those to be his questions or those questions to be suche principles that eche man vtterly denieth that which you fancie eche man grauntâ—…th yea that M. Feck wil tell you that not one of these your sixe questions were any of his questions and that he dreamed not like you but saw well inough what be dyd when he stoode wholly on hys sayde issue of the dealing of Princes in ecclesiasticall matters yea and all your fellowes are ashamed that all the world should sée 〈◊〉 ye set vp wrong markes and fondly tooke for graunted that almoste eche man denies or doubteth of When your selfe béeing come to your selfe shall sée all this will ye not repent ye of your hastie liberalitie and saye your selfe sawe not so muche for if ye had ye would not haue graunted it so 〈◊〉 Which beeing in déede the thing in question and the thing wherein ye graunt the B. hath beset him selfe all his studie and endeuour to proue it not onely as you graunt agaynst yourselfe some what hindreth your cause somewhat bettreth his saying it neyther greatly hindreth our cause nor muche bettreth his but also it fully proueth the question in variaunce on his parte and cleane ouerthroweth M. Feck assertion therin And thus of your too muche prodigalitie as M. Feck may call it laboring to defende him ye haue quite foilde him and while ye would set vp new
And herein hath the Quéenes highnes followed as ye say both her Fathers and Brothers faith also But ye wring al to that faith wherein he was before beguiled as though she should follow him in that he was deceiued not wherein he founde out forsoke the deceyuers that you with your painted wordes might likewise deceyue her Highnes now as they deceâ—…ued her Maiest father then But sée how God turned their deceyt agaynst them selues That where your Pope to flatter K. Henrie withall ascribed to him this title as it were the prophecie of another Caiphas Defender of the faith the King espying the falshood of the Pope became the very defender of the true faith in déede abolishing the Pope the very impugner peruerâ—…er therof and so as you say truer than ye wist M. Stap. atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthy title and stile yet remaining in her Highnesse of the defendour of the faith Neither as you faintly say this title onely remayneth in her Highnes but the thing that the title doth entende her highnesse is in very déede not in a â—…aked name the defender thereof And hath defended her subiects not from foreyne power of straungers onely brought in by the Papistes and from all bodily iniurie and oppression of Popish firebrandes or any other tirannie but defendeth euen our faith from all errours heresies superstitions and Idolatries And this it is for a Prince to be a defender of the faith in déede which argueth a plaine supremacie Now after M. Stapl. hath thus flattred and on his knees humbled him selfe to obtayne a placard of their disobedience vp he starteth once againe and geueth another fling at vs to reuerse this crime of disobedience on vs thinking so to excuse this disobedience of the Papistes thereby And first he setteth on those whome he calleth round cap Ministers howbeit if he remembred that within this hundreth yeres and vpward the popish priestes themselues did weare round cappes he would not be so hastie to giue that nick name He asketh who are those that haue preached with a chaine of golde about their neckes in steade of a tippet Assoyle your question your selfe M. Stapl. I know no such protestant What slaunderous reporte you haue heard of any singuler person I know not no such order is alowed Although it be common among your popish Cardinals Bishops Abbottes Deanes Canons and other beyonde the Seas so to ruffle as ye speake not onely with a chayne of golde but with hatte and feather cappe and agglets rapier and cloke hawke and houndes ruffians fooles wayting on them and oftentimes in complete harneys on a great courser or on a palfrey with a courtisane behinde them thus go the chiefest of your fleshly spiritualtie belike they learned it of that royster Pope Iohn 13. howbeit no Pope doeth amende this disorder Upbrayd not therefore such petit and perticular things to vs which is so great and so common a fault with you But Master Stapleton will go more certainely to worke and charge the Protestantes ex scripto wyth their owne writings VVho are those I pray you sayth he that write sint sanè ipsi Magictratuâ—… membra paries ciues ecclesiâ—…dei imo vt ex toto corde sint omnes precari decet Flagrent quoque ipsi zelo pietatis sed non sint capita Ecclesiâ—… quia ipsis non competit iste 〈◊〉 Let the Magistrates also be members and partes and citizens of the Church of God yea and that they maye bee so it behoueth vs all wyth all our heart to praye Let them bee feruent in the godly zeale of Religion but they may not be heades of the Churche in no case for thys supremacie doth not appertaine to them These are no Papists I trow M. Horne but your owne dere brethren of Magdeburge in their new storie ecclesiasticall by the which they would haue all the worlde directed Yea in that storie wherof one percell Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Queenes maiestie that beare the worlde in hande they are the true and zelous schollers of Luther Thus triumpheth M. Stapleton against the wryters of the storie of Magdeburge The effect of his argument is this These wryters do say that Princes may not be heades of the Church Ergâ—… no prince ouer all Ecclesiasticall persons causes in his owne dominions may be supreme gouernour Howe euill this argument followeth is easie to perceyue and the better in behâ—…lding howe impudently master Stapleton wresteth these wryters But he forceth not thereof bicause they be his aduersaries For that which they write not simplie agaynst the supremacie of princes in Ecclesiasticall causes but agaynst suche supremacie of princes as the Pope vsurped that wresteth he as spoken agaynst such supreme gouernment as the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and vseth The writers hereof hauing set forth two â—…nsamples of that age the one of a godly princes gouernmet by Constantinus Pogonotus the other of a wicked tyrant by â—…eraclius to declare what kinde of supremacie they disalow Thâ—…y she we that this is the scope of the matter iste est scopuâ—…res ê™ magistratibuâ—… politicis non sit licitum cudere formaâ—… religionuÌ„ in perniciem veritatis ita vel coÌ„cilietur veritaâ—… meÌ„daâ—…ium vel vtraque simul sopiant id quod tandem â—…um habet exitum vt regnent errores veritas crucifigatur sepeliatur This is the â—…cope of the matter that it is not lawfull for politike magistrates to coyne formes of religion to the destruction of the truth so that thereby truth and falsehoode should be reconciled togither or both of them togither quayled VVhich at the length commeth to this ende that errors raigne the truth is crucified buried And so followeth the sentence that M. St. citeth let the magistrates also be mebers c. but let them not be heades of the Church Whereby appeareth plainly what maner of heades they meane And this they do not once nor twise setting forth the doings of the wicked â—…yrant Heraclius for ensample that was altogither led by affection and not indifferent to heare â—…ither party nor called in counsell lerned and faithfull men nor called any synode to trie the matter nor serched the truth diligently but being puffed vppe with pride and deuising oâ—…ely with a flattring Monke that after set vp the false fayth of Mahomet determineth in a corner of a moste weightie controuersie and afterwardes will haue the matter neuer called into question This Emperour they call Architectum religionis and demaund what man well in his wittes woulde alowe such attempts processe and executions concluding it is not lawfull form as religionum conflare c. To make newe formes of religions and obtrude them to the Church without all kind of godly honest modest and comely gainsaying refuting therof All this and much more say they of that kinde of supreme gouernement in
your saying And so not onely ye playnly reuile the Lordes anoynted the Quéenes most excellent maiestie but also hir highnesse brother and father whom so muche ye praysed before For neither of them did forgo it no not Quéene Mary hir selfe that dyd forgoe it did euer forgoe it so ye rayle at hir also Besides many other godly princes of this other realmes for the eccl. iurisdiction as ye call it whiche some of them did neuer some of them did not euer forgoe And therfore ye both reuile them and belye theÌ„ but chiefly the Quéenes highnesse and is not this neither a preparation to rebellion But M. Stap. muste néedes be let goe whether he list to range and therefore let him goe First he asketh vvho vvere they that set foorth deuises of their ovvne for the succession of the crovvne vvithout the Princes knovvledge Surely sayth he no Catholikes but the very Protestantes them selues Ye doill M. Stap. to make a generall conclusion of the Protestantes simply from the priuate dooinges of some Should a man say that the pedigrée that M. Christoferson set from Iohn of Gaunt for king Philips title to the Crowne of Englande prouing him to be euen nearer than Quéene Mary hir selfe was the dooing of all the Papistes No the Papistes mystiked and corrected it Howebeit when it was best corrected it tended to a farre worsse ende which ende was all their dooings and fetche to bring this Realme to perpetuall slauery and bondage of Aliens than dyd these mens facte in deuising for the succession which though it were not lawfull to be done vvithout the Princes knovvledge as ye say yet was their entent farre otherwise than to make a preparation to rebellion yea rather to stoppe all gappes as they thought the better from Popishe rebellion althoughe they medled further than became them to do But what excuseth this the Papistes disobedience thinke ye these faultes of the Protestantes be couerings large inoughe to hyde the Papistes wickednesse but to stretche them further he discourseth on the writinges of master Knox and master Goodman For we shall haue all layde in our dishe noughte shall be lefte behinde concealed that any Protestants vnaduisedly euer dyd or spake And it is good to sée our owne faâ—…ts and follies this profite of foes Plutarche teacheth vs to be one of the greatest commodities for that that our friendes would not tell vs our enimies will not layne but spâ—…e out all that they knowe to our shame good and badde false and true togither And therfore we had néede beware that professe the word of God how circumspectly we lead our liues least we giue occasion to the aduersarie and his ministers to slaunder the Gospell and that the vncircumcised Philistians rayle not of the God of Israell by reason of our defaults as héere this enimie dothe Howbeit his argument is all insufficient either to proue any disobedience in vs or to excuse the Papistes disobedience the argument is this M. Knox and M. Goodman wrote agaynst the raygne of women Ergo the Protestantes acknowledge not the Quéenes supremacie in all causes ecclesiasticall Such slender arguments he gleaneth togither agaynst vs séeking bye matters But what should he do else should he haue nought to furnishe his counterblast withall At last giuing ouer the pursuite of the Protestantes he returneth to the defence of his clyent that this can be layde of all men least to M. Feck And héere lyke a wel enstructed proctor he reckneth what good déedes he did in Q. Maries dayes and appealeth to certayne Right honorables as the Lorde Earle of Leicester the lorde Earle of Bedforde the lorde Earle of VVarwike Sir VVilliam Cecill secretarie Yea the Queenes maiestie hir selfe to defende and purge him The good déedes that he reckneth vp are these two First that sir Iohn Cheekes life landes and goodes by his trauayle and humble suite were saued The other His hope is that the Queenes highnesse his soueraigne good Lady will thus muche reporte of hym how in the beginning of hir highnesse trouble hir highnesse then beeing imprisoned in the Court at VVestm and before hir committie to the Towre his good hap was to preache a sermon before Queene Mary and hir honorable councell in the Courte where he moued hir highnesse and them also to mercy and to haue consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is then in trouble and newly entred in prison VVhat displeasure he susteined therfore I do heere saith M. St. omit to expresse but this I certenly know that he hath reported and hath most humbly thanked almightie God and hir highnesse that hir highnesse had the same in remeÌ„brance at the first last talke that euer he had with hir in hir palace at VVestin before hir highnes coronation I trust these are suffycient personages for M. Feck purgation and discharge against your false 〈◊〉 And so he concludeth with a prayer that M. Feck may be made partaker of the like dooinges as he then shewed to other men That downe M. St. God hath graunted him long time M. Fec hath felt it nor if he be not too vnthaÌ„kful can deny it yea your selfe graunt that he confesseth the Q. highnesse to be his soueraigne good lady reported that hir highnesse forgot not the same I warrant you forslacked not the large recompence of his sermon not only if he would haue reuoked his errars superâ—…titions but also euen as he wilfully refused hir highnes fauourable inclinatioÌ„ towards him I haue herd him ofteÌ„ times my selfe publikely priuately acknowledge what the Q. maiestie most liberally gaue him at the reducing of the Minster to the former estate But what doth this Pharisaicall repetition of his former good déedes then excuse his obstinate disobedience now or proue that his booke set foorth agaynst the Queenes maiesties authoritie dispersed among hir subiects is notnowe a very preparation to rebellion if he did any thing then to deserue fauour now let him now so behaue him selfe that he may finde it the Quéenes maiestie is most mercyful and beneficiall What hindreth him then but his owne rebellions obstinacie and yet he hathe founde since what little fauour so euer he got for other then tenfolde muche more doubled to him agayne Little fauoure God knoweth and hir Highnesse felte founde she in that hir trouble and streight imprisonment after M. Feck sermon But ye will not expresse what displeasure M. Fec susteined for mouing Quéene Mary and hir Councell to mercy and to haue but consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is What gotte he so great displeasure for thus much M. St was it so sore a matter to moue them to mercy and consideration of their doinges I had thought they had done all thinges with mercy and great consideration But why will ye not expresse it forsooth ye should then expresse what excéeding crueltie whiche can hardly be expressed what inconsiderate doings the Papistes vsed then neither coulde they
all their actions of their offices or vocations Ye conclude not a like M. Stapl. but subtilly and falsely ye alter the state of the conclusion if ye made your argument aright ye should make it thus as the Prince intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his temporall subiects offices or vocations so he intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his Ecclesiasticall subiectes offices or vocations This is the right illation of the sâ—…militude and thus it maketh nothing against vs Which you espying in the place of intermedling thrust in gouerning concluding â—…alsely bicause he is no intermedler in the one that therefore he is no gouernour of the other But the â—…urder ye wade in this similitude the more ye labour against the streame For as although the Prince intermedle not with the Fathers the Masters the Schoolemasters the Pilotes seuerall actions in their offices or vocations yet he ought to ouersée that euery one of these and all other his subiects do their owne proper actions belonging to their vocations and offices dutifully yea not onely to make lawes for them all as subiectes but also for their seuerall estates and degrées besides not for him selfe to exercise but for them to worke in their vocations so the Prince beyng likewise gouernour of Ecclesiasticall persons so well as of any other aforesaide although he intermedle not with the seuerall actions of their vocations yet ought he to ouersée them that euery Ecclesiasticall estate do their proper actions dutifully and also to make Lawes and Orders not for him selfe but for them in their degrées and vocations to exercise and obserue the same And thus your similitude euery way maketh quite against you M. Stapl. how be it you will proue it better ye say For the better vnderstanding whereof it is to be knowne that before the comming of Christe Kings were there many but Christian Kings none Many coÌ„mon wealths were there but no Christian common welth nor yet godly coÌ„mon welth properly to speake sauing among the Iewes but cluill and politike The ende and finall respect of the which ciuill common wealth was and is vnder the regiment of some one or moe persons to whome the multitude committed them selfe to be ordered and ruled by to preserue themselues from all inwarde and outwarde iniuries oppressions and enemies and furder to prouide not onely for their safetie and quietnes but for their wealth and abundance and prosperous maintenance also To this ende tendeth and reacheth and no furder the ciuill gouernment And to the preseruation tuition and furderance of this ende chiefly serueth the Prince as the principall and most honorable person of the whole estate whiche thing is common as well to the Heathenishe as to the Christian gouernment Is this all that ye will aforde christian Princes M. Stap. what a heathenish doctrine is this to make Christen princes and Heathen princes gouernment all one What if Christen princes as they haue right good cause beginne to startle at this that ye make their estate no better before God than is the great Turkes And what if one should answere that ye not onely sclaundered reprochfully all the estates of Christendome nowe liuing or that shal be or haue bene since Christes comming but also wickedly deface all the godly Kings and rulers before Christes comming Melchisedeck Dauid Salomon c. beléeuing in Christ to come as Christen Princes now beare the title of Christ already come And yet dare you saie that before the comming of Christ Kinges were there many but Christian kinges none Doâ—… ye dallie on the tytle and name of Christian or meane ye the tytle and effecte of christianitie if ye meane so as ye must néedes meane if ye meane any thing materiall to the purpose ye are very iniurious not onely to those Kings but to their subiects yea to their common weale also And yet ye say further their common wealth was but ciuill and politike and vvente no further than outwarde peace tranquillitie welthe and prosperous maynteinance which is the onely ende of their gouernement and that it reacheth not any iote further What if one should bidde you looke further in the scripture and so ye should finde it stretche somewhat further than to be common with the great Turkes gouernement What if a man should presse you with your owne wordes afterwarde that yet catche it more than one inche further for assisting of the Churche vvith the temporall svvorde which the great Turke the great Chan the Persian Sophie doth not but drawe their swordes agaynst it What if a man should referre this among your contradictions What if he should ioyne another withall that where yet ye confesse the Iewes common vvealth was godly before Christes comming and other common wealthes were not godly and yet the ciuill gouernement of Christian princes reacheth no further than the ciuill gouernement of heathen princes and one finall ende is common to bothe and so eyther the Heathens common vveales were godly also or else the Iewes were vngodly too yea what if the heathens coÌ„mon vveale and heathen Princes fell out to be in better estate of the twayne if only quietnesse vvealth abundance and prosperitie were the onely and finall ende of bothe if ye were well vrged in all these thinges thinke ye M. Stap. these your principles would be able to defende you yea lastly if one woulde denie these your Heathen and Turkishe maximies bring ye any thing to proue them than your owne bare saying that it is to be knovvne But no true Christian knovveth it M Stap. nor will euer acknowledge this which with suche bolde impudencie ye grounde vppon that christian Princes gouernement reacheth no further than ciuill and outvvarde safetie vvealth abundaunce and prosperitie and is common asvvell to heathen as to Christian princes Neuerthelesse M. Stap. taking it for a rolled case and out of question rolleth vp the matter as graunted And as he hath thus determined the boundes of Christian Princes gouernement so as it were by commission from his holy father he descrybeth the Popes kingdome But ouer and besides sayth he yea and aboue this is there an other gouernment instituted and ordeyned by Christ in a spirituall and a mysticall body of such as he graciously calleth to be of his kingdome â–ª which is the kingdome of the faythfull and so consequently of heauen wherevnto christian fayth dothe conduct vs In whiche spirituall body commonly called Christes catholike Church there are other heades and rulers than ciuill Princes as Vicars Parsons Byshops Archbyshops Patriarkes and ouer them al the Pope VVhose gouernement chiefly serueth for the furtherance and encrease of this spirituall kingdome as the ciuill Princes doe for the temporall That there is another mysticall body the kingdome of the faythful directed by an other spiritual gouernement this is a true principle M. Stap. and truer than you wéene or would haue it But as you are deceiued and would deceiue others with the title of that
infidelitie beeing expelled and the furie of discorde remooued I shoulde reuoke the people to the knoweledge of faythe and to the â—…eloweshippe of the Catholyke Churche who serued errour vnder the name of Religion Lo master Stapleton here ye sée farre other endes of the ciuile gouernment of Christian Princes than as you most falsely and iniuriouslye alleage to preserue them from all outwarde iniuryes oppressions and enemyes and further to preserue them for theyr safetie and quietnesse for theyr wealth abundaunce and prosperous maintenaunce and that it tendeth and reacheth no further And that thys is common as well to the heathenishe as the Christian gouernement Fye for shame master Stapleton that euer suche heathenishe woordes shoulde procéede out of your catholyke lips But ye are halfe ashamed I sée and woulde mollifie the matter so muche as ye can with a proper qualification that those thinges which these godly Princes did although they did them yet therein were they no more but Aduocates and so saye you All good Princes doe and haue done ayding and assisting the Churche decrees made for the repression of vice and errors for the maintenance of vertue true religion Not as supreme gouernors themselues in all causes spirituall and temporall but as faythfull Aduocates in ayding and assisting the spirituall power that it may the sooner and more effectually take place As ye bring this shifting distinction of Aduocate to late M. Stap. hauing before quite debarred the Princes Ciuill gouernement of goyng anye iote further than ye there did bounde it to meddle no further wyth ayding and assisting the spirituall power than a Saracene doeth ayde and assist it gyuing Princes no more leaue to be Aduocates thereof than ye make the Turke or Souldan saying this theyr so limitted gouernement is common as well to both Heathen as Christian euen so this your office of Aduocateshippe came to late into the Churche by manye yeares to debarre anye of these forenamed Princes in theyr owne supreme gouernement aboute 〈◊〉 matters to make it sownde as though they onely had béene the ayders assisters or Aduocates vnto others and not them selues the doers Whereas on the contrarie they were the verye doers thoughe not of those actions that appertâ—…yned to the Ministers offices yet of the gouerning and directing bothe the Ministers and their actions yea and the principall ouerséers and supreme rulers of them as euen their déedes and wordes before rehearsed plainly declare As for thys shyft of Aduocation was long sithence after theyr tymes deuysed Whiche office of Aduocateshippe séemeth to bée deâ—…yued from this fonde errour of the Papistes that the seculer power is immediately and primarelye as they terme it in the Pope but he hath not also immediatelye the exercise or execution of it but gyueth that to the Prince and so the Prince becommeth the Popes Aduocate or rather his executioner And thus was first say they Carolus Magnus Pope Adrians Aduocate executing the Byshoppe of Romes will agaynste Desiderius King of Lumbardie Wherevpon Charles was made Emperour by the Pope notwithstanding Michaell the Emperour was then lyuing at Constantinople Propter hoc dicunt sayeth Dante 's Aligherius quòd omnes qui fuerunt Romanorum imperatores post ipsum ipse Aduocatâ—… Ecclesiae sunt debent ab Ecclesia aduocari For thys thyng all that were Emperours of Rome after hym and hee hym selfe are Aduocates of the Churche and oughte of the Churche to be called vpon Lupolous de Babenberge also telleth that Pope Zacharie declarauit c. declared or pronounced that Childericus Pepins master shoulde be deposed and Pepine be made the King of Fraunce whome when Pope Steuen the seconde annoynted with his sonnes Carolus and Carolomanus French Kings Ipsos specialiter elegit sayth Lupoldus ad sedem Apostolicam defendendam Ex hac electione putoque reges imperatores Romanorum sint vsque in hodiernum diem ecclesia Romanae aduocati de qua Aduocatia loquuntur iura canonica He chose them especially to defende the Apostolicall Sea. Of this election I thinke it commeth that Kinges and Emperours of the Romaynes are euen to this daye the Aduocates of the Romayne Churche of whiche Aduocacie speake the Canonicall lawes Thus you sée the originall of your deuised Aduocateship commeth nothing neare the examples of the sayde godly Princes béeing themselues supreme gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters before your Aduocateshippe was first hatched No reason therefore the Punie shoulde debarre the Seniour And yet it is but a sielie shift of your Canonistes descant rather detecting the vnlawfull encroching of the Pope than defeating anye parte of the Princes authoritie in this hys supreme gouernement As for those Princes Carolus Magnus his sonnes and other Emperours since theyr tymes were nothing suche Aduocates as your Pope and you woulde nowe pretende that is to say to be your onelye executioners But as these stories testifie euen these Aduocates also were the chiefe directours and supreme gouernours of all those things they did Yea the Pope hym selfe so well as anye other Byshoppe in theyr territoryes was subiecte to them They ayded and assisted the Byshoppe of Rome I graunt when he humblie aduocated then he called vppon them for ayde and assystance agaynst the wrongers of him But the Pope by commaundement called them not and they obeyed his calling and so became his aduocates which is cleane contrarie to an aduocates office And therefore once agayne your argument is nought They were aiders and aduocates Ergo not supreme gouernours But M. St. will further proue by his former ensamples why this supreme gouernement can not appertayne to the Prince For this supreme gouernement sayth he can he not haue vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man no more than can a man be master of a shippe that neuer was a mariner A maior that neuer was a citizen Hys principal gouernement resting in ciuill matters and in that respecte as I haue sayde he is supreme gouernour of all persons in his Realme but not of all their actions but in suche sense as I haue specified and least of all the actions of spirituall men especially of those which are most appropriate to them which can not be vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man. You frame your similitude very vnproportionably M. Stap â–ª from the master of a shippe or the maior of a citie to a Prince or supreme gouernour Either of these béeing particuler offices vnder a supreme gouernour that maketh lawes euen both for maiors in cities and masters of shippes also â–ª And albeit no argumeÌ„t builded on similitudes is firme to proue or improue any controuersie though rightly applied they may lighteÌ„ the matter to him that assenteth but not enforce it to him that denieth notwithstanding your similitudes as they proue nothing so they nothing lighten but more obscure the matter yet if these your similitudes were admitted froÌ„ maior and pilot to supreme gouernour what true conclusion can ye inferre vpon
master Stapleton here is no small boast I trowe We had nowe néede to beware betymes for feare the Bishoppe be here quite ouerthrowne since that master Stapleton maketh so prowde a chalenge Let vs therefore take héede to hys argument on thys place VVhiche place sayeth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayde that the King and others shoulde receyue not onelye the letter whiche as Saint Paule sayeth doeth kyll but the true and syncere meaning withall wherein standeth the lyfe of the letter as the lyfe of man wythin hys bodie yea the eternall lyfe whereof by following lewde lying expositions of holye wâ—…itte wee are spoyled at the Priestes handes Is this the conclusion of all this great crake M. St. that the B. should be quite ouerthrowne by this sentence what one word is here not only of this sentence but euen of your owne well weighed and considered conclusion theron which hath come nere vnto much lesse ouerthrowne the Bishops assertion Which if ye would haue ouerthrowne ye should haue concluded agaynst it and thus haue reasoned Moses sayde to the people of Israell if any hard or doubtfull thing in iudgement rise vp with thee betwixt bloud and bloud plea and plea plague and plague in matters of strife within the Citie c. Go to the Priestes and vnto the Iudge that shall be in those dayes c. Ergo a Christian king ought not to chalenge or take vpon him any such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall matters as doth the Queenes maiestie This conclusion in déede quite ouerthroweth the Bishops assertion But who séeth not that this sentence is to farre fetched to inferre any such conclusion And therfore master Stapleton thoughe this was his buttâ—… on whiche his eyâ—… shoulde haue béene fixed and brought his proues to haue improued this yet durst he not once touche or come nighe it for very shame for if he had he sawe that euery boye in the scholes would haue hissed out his argument And therefore wilyly weighing and considering howe he might make it séeme to serue to some purpose that he had craked on so much This place sayth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayd that Kings and others should receyue not onely the bare letter but the true and sincere meaning withall c. at the priestes handes And is this all that this place serueth to M. Stapleton for I dare say you haue well weighed and considered the matter that from so great a boast are so sodenly fallen into so déepe a consideration of the bare letter killing and the true quickening sense therof Wheras that text if ye would but meanely weigh and consider it once againe neyther talketh of any killing letter or liuing sense at all but of certaine doubtfull cases of strife nor can serue to confirme those sayings of Christ and Saint Paule without manifest wresting of it But to what purpose doe ye so well weigh and consider that whiche is nothing in question and that which is in question denyed and you should proue without any weighing or considering ye take it for confessed Who doubteth of this that Princes should not onely receyue the bare letter but the true sense and meaning withall at the priestes handes This Princes in déede should do which if they had alwayes done they shoulde not haue receyued so many of their lewde lying expositions as they haue done here to fore at the priestes hands who herein deceyued princes and gaue them not the true meaning and sense togither with the copie of Gods worde but debarred Princes of copie thereof of letter sense and all féeding them wyth the vayne fables and lewde lying expositions of theyr owne deuisings Wherefore Lyra noteth here vppon the Hebrue glosse Hic dicit glossa Hebraica c. Here sayth the Hebrue glosse if the priest shall say vnto thee that thy right hande is thy left hande or thy left hande is thy right hande this saying must be vpholden which thing is manifest false For the sentence of no maner of man of what authoritie so euer he be is to be vpholden if it conteyne a manifest falsehoode or errour And this appeareth by this which is set before in the text They shall iudge vnto thee the truth of Iudgement and afterward is set vnder And they shall teach thee according to his lawe whereby it appeareth that if the Priestes speake that which is false or swarue from the law of God they are not to be heard Thus sayth Lyra in confuting the Hebrue glosars of their hye Priests that sayde they could not erre and therefore what soeuer they taught must be beléeued And do not your Papistes say the same of the Pope and your selfe holde the same of your Priestes expositions that theirs alwayes muste be taken for the true sense else wherto bring ye out this conclusion In doubtfull cases of bloud and ciuill actions of strife the highe Priest and the chiefe Iudge muste determine a finall sentence Ergo Princes muste receiue not the letter of the scripture but suche sense as the Popish priestes and the Pope shall determine for the true sense in all controuersies of religion For this is the ful drift of your reason though ye dare not for shame speake so playne But this argument the more it is wayed wayeth lyke a fether in the winde and therefore ye turne the conclusion into generall words and say Ergo Princes and others muste receiue at the Priestes hands not onely the bare letter that killeth but the true and sincere meaning therof withall Which coÌ„clusion is not in controuersie but on both parts graunted they oughtso to do the Priests to deliuer to their Princes and others the worde of God and the true sense therof and the Prince and others oughte so to receiue of them the same word of God and the true sense thereof and not the priests owne deuises and expositions But since that none haue euer done more coÌ„trarie to this rule sythe it was first giuen by Moyses then haue the Popishe priestes had not Christian princes great néede to beware of Popishe Priests gloses and follow the councell of Lyra in reiecting them as other good Princes haue done to displace those false glosing priestes and place faythfull disyensers of Gods mysteries in their roomes and ouersée that their people be not deceiued in receiuing at the priests handes quid pro quo And for this cause the priest shoulde deliuer to his prince a perfect copy of the law which M. St. wickedly termeth the bare letter that killeth and thereto wresteth S. Paule wresteth this sentence of the iudiciall law among the Iewes for their time in the foresaide ciuill controuersies to be a simple rule for all christian common weales in all ecclesiastical causes excluding quite al iudgement from the prince including it in his Pope Priests alone iumbling the Prince and the people togither vnder the priests absolute determination
Where this place ioyneth togither as colleages the prince with the priest or rather ascribeth the skil in suche doubtes to be defined by the learned and faythfull priest and the full authoritie to giue iudgement and to ratifie the Priestes sentence in condemning the refusers to death and in approuing the receyuers to consist not in the high Priest but in the Iudge or Prince And thus this place that he would so fayne wrest euery way agaynst Christian Princes and for his Pope and popelings béeing well wayed and considered according to his owne request maketh nothing for his matter nor for his shauelings but cleane agaynst them And béeing better wayed and considered maketh nothing against the Bishops cause nor against christian Princes supreme gouernment in ouerséeing correcting such false priests but very muche for their duetie and chiefe authoritie therin M. St. hauing thus shamefully counterblasted the Byshops allegatioÌ„ to set a good face on an euilfauorde matter biddes the byshop go on and crieth out that he hath goâ—…ten the victorie that the bishop is at his first encouÌ„tring ouerblowne and discomfited euen with his owne blast And that it is not likely hereafter that he shall bring any thing to resolue his aduersarie But as God would haue it all these wordes are no blowes nor arguments but vayne triuÌ„phes before he haue gotten the victorie of the which he reckoneth him selfe so sure that he graunteth the Byshops other allegation Deut. 13. For as for the next place sayth he it enforceth no supremacie we freely graunt you that princes may sharply punish teachers of false and superstitious religion and Idolatrie beeing therof by the Priests instructed whiche is the matter of your texte This parenthesis M. St. beeing therof by the priests instructed is the levvde lying glose of your owne forge The text hath no such matter of the priests instruction but what thinke you doth enstruction more enforce an authoritie in the priest than powre to punish correct doth enforce an authoritie in the prince or doth this follow that bicause the prince by the priests enstruction doth punish false teachers Ergo he punisheth theÌ„ by the priests authoritie but as you fréely graunt that the prince may punish noughtie false and idolatrous priests so that the priests instructioÌ„ is any matter of the byshops text or that his instruction should more enforce authoritie ouer the prince than the princes punishment doth ouer false teachers is both euident false this we as flatly deny as you do fréely graunt the other Howbeit presupposing that we would also grauÌ„t him this that all things must still be done by the priests instruction But then sayth master Stap. take heede to your selfe master Horne and as though he him selfe were this instructour for I say to you sayth he that ye and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie In déede sir so ye say that full stoutly braying out with I say to you but thanks be to God ye do but say it to vs ye do not proue it to vs but and it were put to a double post might it not proue a worde of course and then take heede to your selfe master Stapl. for we not onely say to you but by the worde of God proue it to you that you and your felowes teach false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies so withal plaine idolatrie c. and so haue ye giuen sentence agaynst your selfe haue told the magistrate his office to punishe you as false teachers that care not how ye falsifie wrest the scriptures to deface your aduersarie the vnskilfulnesse and vnfaythfulnesse wherwith ye falsly charge him euer double or treble redounding vppon your selfe The residue of your proces on these two chalenges of vnskilfulnesse vnfaythfulnesse I referre to your common places of rayling scoffes and slaunders and will answere to the thirde great faulte that ye finde in this diuision Nowe that ye bring out of Glossa ordinaria say you that the Prince is commanded by his princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites it may perhaps be in some ordinarie glose of Geneua his notes Bales or some such like but as for the olde ordinary Latin glose I am right sure M. Horne it hath no suche thing Are ye right sure therof M. Stap and hath it no suche thing in déede will ye venter your poore honestie thereon I dare say ye would haue vs thinke that ye haue looked on the ordinarie glose whether any suche thing were there or no else would ye neuer for shame so boldly affirme it But what speake I of shame in so shamelesse a face that boldly dare auouche he is right sure there is no suche thing when if he had looked in the ordinary glose except he would of purpose looke from it he could scantly misse it euen at the first viewe The wordes of the glose vpon super Israel are these Benedictio est regnare super Israel 1. regnando facere Israel s. deum videntes It is a blessing to raigne ouer Israell that is to saye by raigning which the Byshop Englished by his Princely authoritie to make or cause to become Israelites that is to wete folkes seeing God. The Bishop Englished the sentence playnly by his Princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites And what is here that is not onely in summe of sentence but in the very emphasis or force of the bare wordes all one with the glose and yet this moste impudent what should I call him vnskilfull or vnfaythfull lyer or both chalengeth the Bishop of vntruth and sayth he is right sure there is no such thing In what thing wil this man stick to outface the simple vnlearned that dare thus deale with such a lerned father and coÌ„mit it to print to be examined of any lerned reader and crake of such assurance as though he had poared ouer al the booke for it euen at the first chop he is found an open lyer But I doubt whether euer he looked on the booke at all but trusted some retchelesse superuisor For if he had looked but ouer the head of the verie texte Ut longo tempore regnet That he might long time reigne hée shoulde haue founde noted on this worde Regnet corporaliter spiritualiter That hee shoulde reigne or exercise his Princely authoritie a long tyme Bodily and spiritually not onely to haue a regiment in lay temporall and ciuile matters as M. St. affirmeth but euen in spirituall matters also And had he but looked a little higher on these wordes Legetque illud omnibus diebus vitae suâ—… He should read it all the days of his life He should haue found Vsus reddit magistrum the vse of reading the worde of God makes the king a maister in Gods worde that is to say a setter forth or teacher thereof as it were Upon whiche the
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
that he exercised ordinary gouernment ouer priests and all ecclesiastical persons and causes as other Princes did after him â–ª is not to be broughte for example for our christian princes to follow This is the plaine full effect of your tale And what an ilfauorde argument is this I pray you but to hide this sequele after your fashion ye would inserre another yet more darke conclusion saying It must needes therfore follow that Moses was a priest that a high priest which ye heere full peenishly denie Doth this conclusion M. Stap. if it were admitted improue the Byshops assertion and yet this your conclusion standing on thrée partes as it is not to the purpose so is euery parte starke false and like the maker thereof For Moses by his prerogatiue hauing especiall coÌ„maundement of God therto might well do all those things and yet it followeth not of any necessitie that as you say he must néedes therfore haue bene a priest Or if he had bene a priest he must néedes therefore be a high priest or if he had bene a high priest that he must néedes be the highest priest Neither did the byshop denie peeuishly that he denied as you full peeuishly rashely and like your selfe do iudge nor yet denied or graunted or spoke vpon one way or other whether Moses were priest or a high priest yea or no. But denied and that truely that Moses was not the highest or chiefe priest Which words ye durst not alleage nor yet generally terme him the high priest but ye say a priest and that a high priest your selfe séeming euen by your spéeche to graunt that the high priest or highest priest he was not Nor ye can not cauill about your owne phrase vnlesse ye will say it is all one a Lorde and the Lorde a high priest and the high priest so say ye ment the chiefe priest when ye sayd a high priest for all the worlde séeth a great difference betwéene these termes and that your self did subtilly sée to make the reader beléeue ye had performed your promise in prouing him to be the chiefe priest And yet ye bring no profe but onely say a priest and that a high priest â—…go the highest priest So that if the reader more narroâ—…ly viewing your grosse sleight shoulde chalenge ye that you haue not proued him the highest priest simply no will ye say to saue your honestie I onely sayde a priest and a high Priest and no more But why do ye then belie the byshop saying he denied that that he medled not with and proue not your matter in hande nor kéepe touch with your reader in perfourming your promise that Moses was the chiefe Priest Haue ye learned so wel this subtill shift that Omne promissum est aut debitum aut dubium Euery promise is eyther due or doubtfull But howsoeuer ye will discharge your promise this your doutfull conclusion neither dischargeth your falshood nor impugneth the Bishoppes assertion muche lesse ouerturnes it that he was not the chiefe priest but the chiefe Prince or gouernoure and thereby did order and direct Gods true religion bothe to all the Priestes and people as the Bishop affirmed Nowe seeing he can by no meanes neyther olde stuffe nor newe stuffe bring it about as he wold haue it nor proue him to be the highest Priest he will leaue his promise and lyke to the Fore that would eate no Grapes when he could not come by them with all the leapes he coulde make so M. Sta. will nowe euen renounce his solemne marginall crake that he promised to proue Moyses the chiefe prieste and leaping at it but euer leaping shorte that he was a Priest and a little higher that he was a highe Priest but he can not leape so high to obtaine his purpose that he was the highest Priest he will now let him goe for béeing any Priest at all and since he can not get the grape he wil none of it but will hunt after an other praie I say now further with master Dorman sayth he that put the case Moses were no priest yet this exaÌ„ple frameth not so smoothly and closely to your purpose as ye weene for Moses was a prophet and that such a prophetas the like was not againe Giue me now M. Horne Princes prophetes giue mee Pâ—…nces and lawmakers by especiall order and appointement ordeined of God to whose wordes God certainly wold haue giuen as great authoritie as he would and commaunded to be giuen to Moses and then perchaunce I will saye that ye saye somewhat well to the purpose Againe Moyses was suche a speciall Prophete and so singularly chosen of God to bee hearde and obeyed in all thinges that he is in the holy Scripture euidently compared to Christe himselfe compared I saye in the office of teachyng and instructing Moyses in the Deuteronom foretelling the Iewes of a Messias to come sayeth The Lorde thy God will rayse thee vp a Prophete from among thyne owne nation and of thy brethren suche an one as my selfe him thou shalt heare And this so spoken of Moyses in the olde Lawe is in the nevve Testament auouched and repeated firste by S. Peter the chiefe apostle and nexte by Saint Stephan the firste martyr and applyed to Chryste If then Christe must be so heard and obeyed of vs as was Moyses of the Ievves no doubte as Christe is a king a Prince a Prophete a Prieste and a Bishoppe to vs so vvas Moyses to them a Prince a Prophete a Priest and a Bishoppe As Christe is of vs to bee hearde and obeyed as well in all matters Ecclesiasticall as temporall for no temporall lawe can haue force agaynste the lawe of Christe among Christian men so vvas Moyses to be hearde and obeyed of the Ievves in matters and causes as vvell temporall as spirituall For vvhy the Scripture is playne Tanquam meipsum audietis You shall heare that Prophete euen as my selfe Shevve vs Master Horne any prince in the nevve Testamente so conditioned and endevved and then make your argumente on Gods name Verely any prince that novve is namely in Ecclesiasticall gouernement compared vvyth Moyses is as the Poete sayth Impar congressus Achilli Troilus Yea forsoothe novve yee saye somethyng further Maister Stapleton as ye boaste howbeâ—…it nothyng further in substaunce than youre fellowes before but in flourish of Copia verborum yee saye novve further in déede And I maye saye to you it was high tyme to saye something furtherâ—… for hytherto all that ye haue sayde is nothyng Well saye you nowe Put the case Moyses were no Prieste I conclude then he was not hyghe Prieste and so putting this case yée put youre selfe in an yll case that before ye made a false lying crake and nowe with shame are fayne to giue it ouer But if ye put the case as ye say like Master Dorman then dare ye not abide by this case neither lyke Wylliam Sommer for so playde Master Dorman in putting this case
and so I feare in the ende ye must be fayne to do Nay say you it frameth not so smoothely and closely to youre purpose as ye vvene Well Master Stapleton it hath hitherto so framed that ye are fayne to gyue ouer youre tackelyng and forsake the perfourmaunce of youre promyse and to séeke oute other shiftes of descante so that althoughe ye woulde beare vs in hande it frameth not so smoothelie and closelie for the Bishoppe as hée thinkes yet you graunt thereby that it frameth to his purpose But as for your purpose for all youre olde or newe stuffe it neyther frameth wyde nor close smoothe nor roughe but bringes it out of frame For what an argument call ye this Though Moyses was no prieste yet Moyses was a prophete so well as a Prince Ergo Princes in that respect Moyses was a Prince may not followe his princely steppes Was not Saule also for the while a Prophet Num Saul inter prophetas Was not Debora a Prophetesse and yet a Princesse too or Iudge ouer Israel Was not Dauid a Prophete and is commonly called Regius propheta the Kingly Prophete Neuerthelesse all Christian Princes maye and oughte to folowe his princely supreme gouernement And yet you cry Giue me now M. Horne princes prophetes giue me princes and lawemakers by especiall order and appoyntmente ordeined of GOD. Doe ye not sée howe fondly ye reason and howe ye confute your selfe â–ª Yée reason as thoughe there were no difference to be putte betwéene those especiall giftes and appointmentes and the ordinarie gifte of their Princely authoritie bycause one Prince had bothe and that after an extraordinarie and especiall sorte but if those commaundementes lawes and giftes of prophecies were suche specialties as you saye ordeined of God then do your self seuer them from the prince ly authoritie And why do ye then demaund suche prerogatiues in euery Prince whiche they had not in respâ—… â–ª they were Princes but in other especiall respects But by this your fonde rule if bycause they had suche especiall priuileges commaundementes or giftes therfore they are not to be broughte in for an example of the authoritie then you must not alleage them for the Priestes or bishops authoritie in Ecclesiast causes neyther except your Priests Bishops haue the lyke prerogatiues and that God wold haue as great authoritie giuen to them as he would and commanded to be giuen to Moyses And thus your argument maketh directly againste your selfe Yea you may hereby exclude al Princes from al ciuil gouernement too whiche if we proued they might haue bicause Moyses ordered and directed all the Iudiciall lawes of Gods people may ye not replie on this fashion and say Giue me Princes and lawmakers by special order appointment ordeined of God For you knowe wée can giue you none in these lawes neyther that are equall to Moyses May not therfore Moyses ensample herein be alleaged for the Princes authoritie in makyng ciuill lawes bicause the Prince maketh them not with suche speciall order and appointment ordeined of God as Moses did Yes M. Stap. Moyses authoritie may well be alleaged for al Princes authoritie although they haue not the like gifts that Moyses Iosue or Dauid had Yea those singular ornamentes of God in them ioyned to their princely authoritie make so 〈◊〉 an argument to feare Princes from doing the like things bicause they haue not the like excellent giftes that they be rather encouragementes to set such singular Princes gouernement as patternes to folow euermore before their eyes and the better those Princes were the better theyr ensamples be Where as you reason contrarywise such a Prince was more excelleÌ„t than princes be now Ergo our Princes now may not take example of him but ye shoulde conclude that they oughte to take example of him the rather And euen for these causes such Princes are examples to all other bicause they so excell all other So men set their children in writing to the best and most cunning penman at the least to haue them come the nearer to him so muche as they can though they caÌ„not fully attain to his perfectioÌ„ not to say tushe he writes too fine for them and therfore they must not take ensamples of him Yea if a learned Schoolemaister were also an excellent diuine myght not the same man be reckoned for a schoolemaister yea rather for a paterne and ensample for other schoolemaisters to follow bicause of his singular gift to traine the children vp in the feare knowledge of God so well as in the rudimentes of Grammer And will ye then debarre Moyses from being an example to other Princes bicause he was not only a Prince but a Prophete also bicause he had more excellente giftes and prerogatiues than other Princes haue But here thynking thereby the more to abase and dashe Christian Princes oute of countenaunce from taking example of this excellente Prince Moyses ye mounte so highe into the prayse of him that lyke to the Fryer which in the prayse of saincte Frauncis extolling him aboue all the Sainctes aboue Seraphin and Cherubyn yea aboue Christe coulde fynde no place in Heauen to sette him in so where in the prayse of Moyses ye shoulde referre him vnto Christe ye ouershoote your selfe and referre Christe vnto him making Christe to be terminum à quo and Moses terminum ad quem â–ª Moyses sayeth saye you The Lorde thy God will rayse thee vp a prophete from among thyne owne nation and of thy brethren suche a one as my selfe him shalte thou heare Ergo Châ—…ist is so to be hearde of vs as Moyses was of the â—…wes Hereuppon preposterously ye inuerte the reason backewarde not from Moyses to Christe of whome Moyses knowledged hym selfe but a fygure but from Christe agayne to Moyses as though Christe also were a fygure of him saying As Christe is a kyng a Prophet a Prieste and a Bishoppe to vs so was Moyses to them a Prince â–ª a Prophete a Priest and a Bishop As Christe is of vs to be hearde and obeyed â—…s vvell in all matters Ecclesiasticall as temporall so was Moyses to be hearde and obeyed of the Iewes in matters and causes as well temporall as spirituall What a manifest writhing of Scripture is this Who playeth Cacus parte here that drewe Hercules â—…en by the tayles backwarde and so stole them into his theeuishâ—… denne Doe not you so hale this testimonie of Scripture backwarde lyke the witche that sayde hir Pater noster backewarde to make hir payle goe forewarde saying As Christe is King Prophete Prieste and Bishop so was Moyses As Christe is to be hearde and obeyed so was Moyses Where by the testimonie alleaged ye shold rather haue reasoned forwarde thus As Moyses was Prince Prophet priest bishop to theÌ„ so should Christ be to vs As Moyses was hearde and obeyed of them so shoulde Christe be of vs This had bene the right and orderly reason but you sawe that then youre wresting the Text woulde
soone be espyed And that in swaruing from the hearing and obeying of the olde lawe of Moyses and the Gospell of Christe to all proportions of these peâ—…ons offices would be but an homely sequele to serue your â—…urpose and rather abase Christe than serue any thyng for Moyses to make him a Priest and a Bishop And where you make Chryste a fygure of Moyses to make Moyses also a Priest and a Bishoppe bycause Chryste is so the texte maketh a similitude from Moyses to Chryst onely in eyther béeing a Prophete and that the one Prophete and the other shoulde be heard and obeyed But you turne it topsie turuie and making Christes person represente Moyses person conclude thereon not onely Prophete but Priest and Bishop also which the texte citeth not nor any other mentioneth in the scripture that Moyses was priest and Bishop Nor the Priesthood of Christe was prefigured by Moyses priesthoode for that is a question whether Moyses were Priest at all or no but the Scripture expressely for Christes priesthoode testifyeth that Aarons Priesthoode in some respectes but chiefly Melchisâ—…decks were the onely fygures thereof and not any Priesthood of Moyses and therefore your selfe durste not flatly conclude before that hee was the chiefe Prieste but a highe Priest But dare ye saye the lyke of Christe he was a hyghe Priest but not the chiefe or hyghest Priest of all But when ye sawe a glimse that this inuersed argument could not proue Moyses to be a lyke Priest to Christ nor bishoppe at al nor that his béeing a Prophete tooke awaye the ensample of his Princely authoritie as ye did the residue so ye subtilly inuerte and folde vp the conclusion For where it shoulde haue falne out thus As Christe is of vs to hee hearde and obeyed as vvell in all matters Ecclesiasticall as temporall so vvas Moyses to bee hearde and obeyed of the Iewes in all matters and causes as well spirituall as temporall whiche were the playn conclusion yée come indreaming and saye in matters and causes as vvell temporall as spirituall as thoughe the â—…uestion were moued of temporall not of spirituall matters â–ª neither dare ye say all as ye did in the former part But if ye replie that ye ment all and so the proportion of your argument runneth and that I do ye wrong to charge ye with so lighte a matter since the indefinite is taken for the vniuersall maye not I replie agayne that ye doe the Bishop muche more treble wrong that so often call and make suche outcryes for thys syllable all when soeuer he concludes In matters so wel ecclesiastical as temporall Lo say you he leaueth out in all matters Ecclesiast and temporall Whiche althoughe it were no parte of his issue with M. Feckenham and yet he settes it downe oftener than ye woulde haue it though he be not in euery particular proofe bounde thereto yet sée howe thys hitteth your selfe that if ye leaue out this word All ye can make no good conclusion from Christe to Moyses at all Nowe when you haue thus Master Stapleton preferred Moyses before Christe ye crie out vnto the Bishoppe Shewe vs Master Horne any Prince in the newe Testamente so conditioned and endued and then make youre argument on Gods name Haue you made your argument on Gods name M. Stapleton or not rather in his name that exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called God when ye haue made the mayster serue as a fygure to the seruaunte to serue youre purpose But lette Moyses haue hys due estymation vnder Christe and hys especiall prefiguryng of Chryste also and all prerogatiues of dooyng any thyng for the tyme then by Gods especiall appoyntmente that Princes nowe can not doe Yet on Gods name maye anye man argue as the Bishoppe dyd that Moyses care and regarde béeyng the Prince of the Israelites in settyng foorthe and ryghtely orderyng Gods true religion then maye and is and oughte to be a paterne to all Christian Princes to care and regarde in setting foorth and rightely ordering Gods true religion nowe And what though in this coÌ„parison although in déed iâ—… be no comparison as you call it but an example any christian Prince that now is compared with Moyses be Impar congressus Achilli Troilus as vneuen a match as Troilus to contende with Achilles may not therefore a christian Prince followe Moses examples Why bring ye that Poets sentence M. St what Prince goeth about to coÌ„pare contend with Moyses and not rather submit them selues to his example heerein Ye slaunder christian Princes ye deface Christes glory ye belye Moyses ye skippe from Priest to Prophet from Prophet to Priest agayne to delude the bishops ensample and yet all this will not frame neither smoothly nor roughly to your purpose Whiche when ye perceiue leauing all these shifts of descant to infringe the authoritie of this first example that vrgeth you so sore that ye can not tell what to say vnto it but are driuen to the harde wall and that all store olde stuffe and new stuffe is cleane spent then as a desperate man ye quite denie all examples either of Moyses or of any that hereafter shall be alleaged and â—…ée for sanctuarie once agayne to the place of the Deuteronomie mentioned in the former diuision of the doubts arising betweene bloud and bloud plea and plea leprie and leprie to be determined by the priestes Iudge And héere clayming sanctuarie and remouing al examples And the lawier sayth say you legibus non exemplis iudicatur VVe muste iudge according to the precise rule of the lawe and not by examples extraordinary doings enforce no ordinary prescription or rule The ordinary rule of priests iudgements without whyes and what 's and suche other tryfling importune instances as ye are wont to make agaynst it by the lawe of Moyses and by your owne chapter before alleaged in doubtfull cases muste absolutely vpon payne of death be obeyed By this rule of the lawe you must measure all the examples following of kinges and princes vnder this laâ—…e Ye muste square your examples to the rule and not the rule to the examples vnlesse ye will make of the lawe of God Lesbiam regulam and bothe vnskilfully and vnorderly worke therwith And hereon as a ruled case ye set downe your marginall iudgement Men must iudge by lawe and not by examples If ye will not M. St. be iudged by examples wherefore do ye take vpon you to defende M. Feckenham and impugne the byshop For one of the foure meanes whereby he desireth to haue his issue proued and will be iudged by is practise which altogither ye wot standeth of examples and therfore the byshop proueth it by examples And if you will now flée from the authoritie of examples ye should at the beginning haue striken off one of those foure meanes to haue the issue proued by and not first to admit them and â—…id the byshop go on and say ye will yeelde also if he proue ought by
ye bryng hym foorthe to better purpose or else whyle yee thynke by clawyng hym thus to wynne hys good fauour yee gette hys heauy displeasure and that he answere ye flatly non hercule veniam tertio he will not come at your cal Howbeit ye will once agayne in hope of better lucke bring him foorth and alleage his authoritie better than ye haue done hitherto Besides that say you it is to be considered as M. D. Harding toucheth that he passed other Princes herein bicause he had the gifte of prophecie So that neither those thinges that the Apologie sheweth of Dauid or those that ye and master Nowell adde therevnto for the fortification of the sayde superioritie can by any meanes induce it This friuolous argument he was a Prophet also aswell as a Prince Ergo his superioritie in that he was a Prince can not be alleaged for other Princes to followe ye vsed before as your owne freshe stuffe to shifte off Moses ensample but as it nothing helped your cause then no more dothe it nowe Onely it detecteth héere your vayne crake there of vnspent stuffe where in déede it was olde rotten stuffe spent before by D. Harding on king Dauid as héere your selfe coÌ„fesse yet there ye brought it as a notable fresh surplusage beyonde all that had bene sayde But as you thus of D. Hardings olde scroppes héere would haue made vs there newe fresh stuffe of your owne wherby the alleaging of him agayne this third time openeth your shame so yet once agayne ye make your M. D. Harding and your selfe for companie confounde your owne tales and speake contrarie to your selues Right now ye sayde and alleaged your masters authoritie for it that king Dauids doings were no more than Queene Maries doings to employ a supremacie Nowe ye say agayne and like wise alleage your master for it that king Dauid passed other princes heerein bicause he had the gifte of prophecie If he passed other princes héerein then he passed Quéene Mary whome many other Princes haue also héerein passed and so his doings were more than were Quéene Maries doings héerein For who knowe not that she was no Prophete and thus the oftner ye alleage your master ye take your master tardie in one lie or another and make him still contrarie both himselfe and his cause also Againe it King Dauid were a Prophete as I graunt he was a Prophete ye wote might and did determine doctrine but your selfe sayde before Dauid in all his doings determined no doctrine and thus ye lie on your owne head and make your master witnesse thereto Well leaue at the length to cite your masters authorities for shame master Stapleton since ye can bring them out no handsomer or howe well so euer ye haue brought them out to your aduantage since they be no better proues than that He affirmeth he noteth he toucheth as though all were gospell that master Doctor Harding affirmeth noteth or toucheth Are ye so fond to thinke any man would yéelde so soone vnto them vnlesse he were as wise as your selfe But since none of all these reasons will serue we shall now haue other stuffe of your owne though not very fresh but such stale refuse as your masters haue refused but to you all is fishe that commes to nette ye do wisely to let go nothing that maye any waye be wrested to helpe so yll a cause And first ye reason from the authoritie of the scripture In déede this is a better way than to reason from D. Hardings authoritie The Scripture say you in the sayde place by you and master Nowell alleaged sayth that Dauid did worke iuxta omnia quae scripta sunt in lege dominâ—… according to all things written in the lawe of God. What conclusion can ye inferre hereon agaynst the Bishops allegation of Dauid Ergo he had not an especiall care and regard in ordring and setting forth Gods true religion if ye make the quite contrarie conclusion He did worke according to all things written in the lawe of God Ergo as the B. sayth he had an especiall care and regard in ordring directing Gods true religion then should ye make a most true conclusion where otherwise rightly applied it can no ways serue your turn Thus bring ye out that which once again ouerturnes your cause and proues K. Dauids supreme gouernmeÌ„t And euen so the Q. Maiestie by this ensample of K. Dauid is taught to do the like as praysed be to god for hir therfore she foloweth wel herein the steps of K. Dauid doing iuxta omnia quae scripta suÌ„t in lege domini according to all things written in gods law And where the papists in al their errors this amoÌ„g other of the supremacie do praeter coÌ„tra omnia quae scripta sunt in lege domini besides against all things writteÌ„ in gods law As Dauid redressed eccl. disorders crept in before his time so the Q. highnes now hath redressed such disorders as she fouÌ„d before hir time crept in Thus the more ye reason the more stil ye make against your selfe Ye had néed adde some better stuffe thaÌ„ this or els if ye thus hold on your friends wold wish M. Fec had hired ye to hold your peace when he first moued you to plead for him Master Stap. séeing it now more than high time to adde some notable thing to better his cause VVherevnto I adde sayth he a notable saying of the scripture in the sayd booke by you alleaged concerning Dauids doings by you brought foorth touching the Priestes and Leuits Vt ingrediantur domum dei iuxta ritum suum sub manu Aaron patris corum sicut prâ—…ceperat dominus deus Israel King Dauids appoyntment was that the Leuits and Priestes should enter into the house of God there to serue vnder the gouernment of whome I pray you not of King Dauid but vnder the spirituall gouernment of their spirituall father Aaron and his successours The gouernour of them was Eleazarus Upon this notable sentence for your purpose as ye thinke you gather thrée notes And bicause ye would go orderly ye begin first with the last note VVhere we haue to note first say you that Dauid appoynted hereto the Leuits nothing of himself But sicut praeceperat dominus deus Israel as the Lorde God of Israel had before appoynted VVe haue here againe to note first in you M. Stap. no plaine dealing that begin with the last part of the sentence first And wherefore I pray you but that that which is spoken here of this matter in especiall ye woulde make it séeme to serue for all Dauids doings in generall VVe haue to note againe your hacking and wresting of this sentence which sheweth a playne destination betweene theyr turnes of comming in and their ordinarie ministerie in theyr turnes in attending on the highe priest The text is thus â—…ae vices eorum secundum ministeria sua vt ingrediantur domum domini iuxta ritum
suum sub manu Aaron patris eorum sicut praeceperat dominus deus Israel These are theyr courses after their ministeries to enter into the house of the Lorde and according to theyr manner be vnder the hande of Aaron their father as the Lorde God of Israel hath commaunded Which last wordes ye beginne withall and ioyne them to the first parte as thoughe the Lordes commaundement had béene of Dauids appoyntment where it was onely of the obedience of all the Tribe of Leuie to be vnder Aaron and his successors in the ministerie which in deede was Gods statte commaundement But the appoynting of the courses to those mencioned in that place was Dauids commaundement euen as your selfe doe say it was King Dauids appoyntment And the Chapter before of the lyke argument playnlye sayeth Iuxta pracepta quoquè Dauid 〈◊〉 c. And according to the last commaundements of Dauid the Leuites were numbered from twentie yeare and vpwarde to wayte vnder the hande of the sonnes of Aaron in the seruice of the house of the Lorde But admit that these wordes Sicut praeceperat c. as god had commaunded be to be ment as you pretend of a speciall coÌ„maundement to Dauid so to dispose those courses as ye expound it he did nothing without gods coÌ„maundement Is this again I pray you any argumeÌ„t to improue his supreme authority next vnder god bicause he did al things sicut praeceperat dominus as the lord had coÌ„maundéd then by this same rule yourpriest should not haue the supremacie neither for I am sure he had no further priuiledge to do against or beyond Gods coÌ„maundement no more than Dauid had It is your Pope that thus stretcheth his claime to do beyonde all Gods forvoade and contrarie to Gods commaundement but little or nothing sicut praeceperat dominus deuâ—… Israel as the Lord God of Israel hath coÌ„maunded As for the Quéenes Maiestie hath not done or doth any thing more than Dauid did which is sicut praeceperat c. as God hath commaunded hir to do And syth Gods commaundement vnto Dauid stretcheth to the placing appointing both aboue vnder in their orders of sacrifices eueÌ„ of all the leuiticall priesâ—…es it strengthneth hir cause the more that she hath not onely the bare example of King Dauid but also the warrant of Gods commaundement for the supreme gouernement of all hir clergie to place them in their seuerall functions Secondly ye say ye haue to note that king Dauid did make appoyntment vnto them of no straunge or new order to be taken in religion but that they should serue God in the temple iuxta ritum suum after their owne vsage custome or maner before time vsed Secondly we note to you againe M. St. that you interprete his sayings ambiguously and applie it maliciously Ambiguously bicause thoughe Dauid neyther made any straunge or newe order to be taken in Religion nor yet in their vsage custom or maner of their ceremonies commaunded of god and so vsed before his time but saw euery thing dutifully obserued both sicut praeceperat dominus iuxta ritum suum as the Lord had coÌ„manded after their owne order yet in their courses and in other circumstances diuers of his orders were new and strange vnto them and of his owne appoyntment And diuers ceremonies that were iuxta ritum suum according to their own order hauing been neglected by the priests and become straunge vnto them those he redressed iuxta ritum suum according to their own order and sicut praeceperat dominus as the Lorde had commaunded But what serueth this howe soeuer ye expounde it to infringe any supreme gouernement in king Dauid bicause the Prince is bounde not to alter the Priestes rites and ceremonies béeing appoynted of God Ergo he is not supreme gouernour in séeing them kéept accordingly might ye not rather argue contrarywise The prince is bound not to alter religion nor those orders that God hath ordeyned bringing in straunge and new Ergo he is bound to ouersée care and prouide that those orders be onely kept and none other brought in And if princes had alwayes looked to this their duetie more narrowly than they haue done then had not your Pope and popishe Prelates broughte in so many vayne traditions false doctrines and superstitious ceremonies as they haue neither iuxta ordinem suum according to their owne order nor sicut praceperat dominus as the Lord commaunded On the other part this your application is a malicious slaunder to the Q. highnesse For she hath not made or appointed to be receiued any strange or new order in religion but reuoked the olde primatiue order of religion ordeined of Christ and hath appoynted the ministers of God to do their dueties secundum ritum suum according to their owne order sicut praeceperat dominus as our sauiour Christ by him selfe and his Apostles hath prescribed to them It is your Pope and Papall Church that offreth strange fire to God that hath appoynted erected those strange and newe orders in religion and therfore hir maiestie hath worthily abolished all those false priests with their strange and new orders and all their false worship of God and in that hir highnesse thus doth she sheweth hir selfe to follow Dauids eâ—…sample like a godly supreme gouernour Thirdly and lastly say you king Dauids appoyntment was that they should serue in the house of God sub manu Aaron patris corum as vnder the spirituall gouernement of their father Aaron and his successors the high Priests Héere agayne to the shew of some aduauntage ye translate sub manu which is vnder the hande importing attendant at hande in their ministerie to the high Priest vnder the spirituall gouernement as thoughe they were exempted from the kings gouernement and so you make your conclusion saying The which words of the Scripture do so well and clearely expresse that king Dauid did not take vpon him any spirituall gouernment in the house of god c. This conclusion is captious and yet not to the purpose There is a difference betwéene spirituall gouernment and gouernment ouer spirituall â—…cclesiasticall matters This ye should conclude not that if ye will confute the bishop And this gouernment ouer spirituall matters tooke Dauid on him the other that is the spirituall gouernment he left entier vnto the Priests without any preiudice to their ecclesiasticall authoritie as ye graunted before And as Dauid therin did so doth the Quéenes Maiestie nowe But what maketh this agaynst king Dauids supreme gouernment that the inferior priests Leuites in their ministeries offices were by the kings appoyntment vnder the hande or spirituall gouernment of their spirituall father Aaron and his successors the high priests as you translate the text Is it not also the Q. Maiesties appoyntment that the inferiour Ministers should serue in their functions vnder the spiritual gouernment of their bishops and bicause it is hir
of all Nations Prouinces and Countreys of what so euer qualitie or condition they were and in all maner causes if the defendant require an ecclesiastiall iudgement it be not lawfull from the Bishops sentence to appeale any higher This lawe is here brought forth master Stapleton very vntimely and impertinently nothing to proue or unproue the ensample or doings of King Dauid vnlesse ye woulde proue it on this wiâ—…e â—…uo alleageth a lawe of Theodosius binding all his subiects of all Nations Prouinces and Countreys of whatsoeuer qualitie and condition they were and in all maner causes if the defendant require an ecclesiasticall iudgement it be not lawful from the Bishops sentence to appeale any higher Ergo king Dauid made the like lawe to this or this was like to king Dauids lawes Howe thys hangeth togither like your Germaines lippes that before yâ—… spake of let others iudge King Dauids lawes were not for priests to be such Iudges but for priests to be subiect to these orders that they should obserue and obey them porter singer Leuit Priest or Prophet high or low of what qualitie or condition soeuer they were These lawes of king Dauid were as ye say by Gods commaundement by the mouth of his Prophets and therefore coulde not be yll The law you cite of Iuâ—… from Theodosius though at that time it were good vpon some godly consideration yet it is not ius diuinum the law of god it is but mans law the princes law sheweth a chief authoritie in him to giue such liberties to the clergie which as they may be very wel vsed especially when princes do looke well to them that they vse their gifts offices and priuileges dutifully so haue they since by your pope and prelates bene very ill vsed euen to the treading down of the doners of theÌ„ Theodosius Iuo or any other And as the Iuy taking al his streÌ„gth growth from the Oke so coÌ„passeth ouergroweth it and that by his gréene pleasant embracings of it till the Iuy haue quite destroied the whole bole of the Oke so haue your clergie by such franchesies liberties of princes at the first by compassing them with counterfeit holines subtile deuises so growne vp aboue them in riches strength and possessions that at the length ye haue destroied brought to nothing all their supreme estate ouer you For whereto bring ye out this priuiledge of the Emperor Theodosius that none might appeale to any higher sentence than the B. but as ye haue brought it now in the end to cal coraÌ„ vobis as your vnderling eueÌ„ the prince himself from whoÌ„ ye coÌ„fesse this your priuilege came And thus ye alleage king Iuo his lawes as it were an Iuy bush to behold how your popish prelates do play the Iuies part But it is hie time with other sharper lawes that princes pull vp such Iuies by the rootes Now as ye haue thus shifted off the answere to king Dauids doings redressings ordrings lawes and chiefe gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes so to knit vp the knot euen like a fawning Iuy about princes your selfe And surely say you no Prince more recognized their obedience to the spirituall magistrate in spirituall causes than such as were most readie and carefull to ayde further and to their power direct all spirituall matters This therefore proueth well that godly princes do further and set foorth godly religion by meanes seemely to their vocations Why master Stap. who desireth or attributeth more to Princes than to set forth Gods religion by meanes semely to theyr vocation If this ensample of Dauid as you say proue thus much then to gouerne direct commaunde and appoynt the Priests yea your hiest Priestes as Dauid did is no vnseemely meanes to their vocation nor vnsitting euen for your Popes vocation to obey the Princes appoyntment and commaundement And if to direct all spirituall matters may be done of Princes yet the obedience to the spirituall Pastor in spirituall matters still recognized then doth not the Quéenes Maiestie any preiudice to them recognizing to them a dutifull obedience in the ministration of spirituall matters for all that she fetteth forth Gods true religion and directeth all spirituall matters as ye graunt she maye Which is as much as the Bishop or any of vs desire or hir Maiestie taketh on hir But say you here is no maner of inckling that Princes do or did euer beare the supreme gouernment in all ecclesiastical matters to decide and determine to alter and chaunge to set vp and plucke downe what religion liked them by their princely authoritie and mere soueraigntie Haue ye gone about to impugne this all this while M. Stapleton then I see well it was not for nothing that alwayes ye aunswered so wide Ye needed not haue sought so many shifting corners The Bishop proponed one thing and you aunswered another Doth the Bishop maintaine or euer sayde that Princes might decide determine alter chaunge set vp pluck downe what religion liked them by their Princely authoritie and mere soueraigntie Quote me the lease name me the place where once the Bishoppe so said Or doth the Q. Maiestie take any such thing vpon hir These be but your wicked I had almost sayde traytâ—…rous slaunders to desace hir highnesse to hir simple subiectes And no doubt so ye report to other Countreys of hir Maiestie as ye write here most opprobiously agaynst hir It is your Pope agaynst whom ye should make this conclusion for he taketh on him to decide and determine to alter and chaunge to set vp and pluck downe what religion liketh him The Quéenes Maiestie God be highly praysed for hir as a most godly supreme gouernour feloweth king Dauids ensample and neyther your wicked conclusion toucheth hir nor these your shifting counterblasts come nere the matter in hande The. 14. Diuision AFter King Dauid the Bishop alleageth the wise King Salomon his sonne citing a briefe summe of his actes that inferre his supreme authoritie For answere to this Master Stapleton chooseth out one act of Salomon as a full aunswere to all the rest besydes and sayth The weight of this obiection resteth in the deposition of Abiathar the high Priest. The weight of this aunswere resteth first vpon a manifest vntruth The Bishop alleaged besides Abiathars deposition the placing of Sadocke the placing of the arke in the temple of Salomon the dedication of the temple the offring sacrifices blessing the people directing the Priestes Leuites and other Church officers after his fathers orders and the Priestes obedience in euery thing to the kinges commaundement none of these obiections resting on Abiathers deposition Onely the néerest that commeth to it is the placing of Sadocke in Abiathars roome And yet sayth M. Stap. the weight of this obiection resteth in the deposition of Abiathar the high priest And so thinketh if he fully aunswere this he hath satisfied all the rest Nowe since M. Stapleton
the kings office is a distinct function from the Priests neither impugneth the byshops assertion nor the princes supreme gouernement Conclude this M. Stap. agaynst them that confounde their offices The other parte of your conclusion that the kinges office medleth onely with the common weale by which ye meane onely the ciuill policie and hath nothing to do with any matters perteyning to God or euer ye shall directly proue it on this or any other place in the whole scripture it will finde ye somewhat more to do than ye suppose it will. As for the kinges intermedling with Gods matters your selfe before haue graunted a king may intermedle and be no breaker nor enimie to Gods order And that euen this king Iosaphat vsed a care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters that he reformed religion and that godly christian Princes may at this day do the lyke This your selfe haue already graunted And is all this no intermedling dothe it not rather proue he intermedled that as supreme gouernour thereof yea euen ouer the Priestes them selues to whome that charge of doing those matters is committed and yet he neither breaketh the order appoynted by God nor is become an enimie to Gods holy ordinance Ye say it was Gods ordinance and appoyntment what followeth it was not therefore the Princes ordinance and appoyntment also as though these were contrary and coulde not stande togither the one vnder the other the ordinance of God and the ordinance of the king Put case the Priest had ordeined it might it not haue béene Gods ordinance too but the priest ordeined it not but the prince Ergo the Prince immediatly ordeyning it vnder God sheweth that he hath an immediate power vnder him euen aboue the Priests Of whome are these words so precisely spoken he appoynted he commaunded he sayde it shall be so thus shall ye do c was it the Prince or was it the Priest Did Amarias commaunde Iehosaphat or Iehosaphat commaunde Amarias and all the other Priestes and Leuites who is the supreme gouernour of the twaine the commaunder and appointer or he that is commaunded and appoynted Untill therefore that ye can proue that the high Priest Amarias commaunded and appoynted vnto King Iosaphat these things and that the king did not commaund nor appoynt these things to the Priest and Bishop euerie man that hath any vnderstanding will easily perceyue and iudge that the Prince was the Priestes supreme gouernour next vnder God both ouer his person and ouer the thing also wherein he appoynted and commaunded him But sée your constant dealing in this matter â–ª before you made the gouernance of the thing to be more than the gouernance of the person And here as though it were a greater matter to gouerne the person you say If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment thereof euen ouer the Priests themselues to whom the charge is committed Againe before you sayde that Iosaphats dealings were rather with persons than with matters ecclesiasticall But now ye exempt the persons to saying If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment euen ouer the Priests themselues c. he passeth the boundes of his office And thus although for a while ye would shift off the matter by séeming to graunt somwhat to bleare the reader withall yet in the ende contrary to your former graunt ye eaâ—…e your worde and debarre the Prince of all both for matter and persons to But thankes be to God this insample of Iosaphat is so plaine that all these fetches and shiftes that ye are dryuen vnto can so little any way improue his supreme gouernment that euery thing which ye bring agaynst it maketh more and more for it Such is the force of the truth and so doth falsehoode in his owne trippe still ouerturne it selfe The. 16. Diuision THe Bishop alleaging the example of king Ezechias fiâ—…st sheweth what great commendation for his godly gouernment in reforming religion the scripture attributeth vnto him Secondly how he called togither the clergie telleth them their faults declareth to them the wrath of God exhorteth commaundeth them to do their dueties in clensing themselues in making their sacrifices and appointeth their offices prouideth them conuenient portions to liue by and that in all things the clergie and the people obeyed the Kings commaundement which argueth his supreme gouernment ouer all ecclesiasticall persons and causes To this master Stapleton aunswereth first on the olde warrant of his good masters wordes by reiecting all this as insufficient Here is nothing brought in by you sayth he or before by the Apologie as M. Dorman and M. D. Harding do well aunswere that forceth the surmised soueraigntie in King Ezechias but that his power and authoritie was readie and seruiceable as it ought to be in all prynces for the execution of things spirituall before determined not by him as supreme head newly established How well or yll master Stap. your masters haue aunswered this obiection and are aunswered againe is apparant and easie to be iudged by viewing both their answeres Howbeit vnto their wel doings for feare they should not fal out so well as ye pretend you haue done well also to better their answeres with the surplusage of your new stuffe And if it were graunted you M. Stap. that those things which Ezechias did had not bene by him as supreme heade newly established would it folow therevpon that they were not by him as supreme head or gouernour newly reformed neyther hauing bene some of them of olde established before by the priests negligence hauing long time bene corrupted But what letteth why they may not also be sayde to haue bene by him newly established being quite decayed before And so sayth Lyra of the ioy at the great passeouer that long time had ceassed Propter quod quado Ezechias eam renouaeuit fuit maior exultatio quòd noua placent delectant For the which cause wheÌ„ Ezechias renued it there was greater reioising for bicause new things do please and delight So that to them it was a newe establishing But was the brasen serpent pulled downe and destroyed euer before as other Images and hill aulters had béene was the feast of the passeouer euer chaunged before was that order of collations euer ordeyned before was this the Leuites doings of the Priests partes euer done before So that at the least some of these doings were by him newly established and neuer done before but as the necessitie of the time was then so were they commaunded to be done by him and well allowed of God. Yet say you they were not newly established by him as supreme hed but his power authoritâ—…e was ready seruiceable for the execution of things spiritual before determined But if these things were not before determined I pray you master Stapleton whose executioner was he then neither the priests nor the prophets had before determined that he should do or commaund to be done these things
what can you bring foorth M. Sta. to returne your wise demaunde on your selfe for your pope his councels out of the olde Testament can ye finde your pope and his cardinals in councel there assembled Uerily then might ye haue béen much bolder than ye were right now in your sacond marke to limit your crake within a thousande yeres and vpwarde But thereby might ye soone haue marred the popes clayme froÌ„ Peter so that ye wan in the hundrethes léese agayne in the shire and put your winning in your eye well inough and yet sée neuer the worsse But ye will replie that ye can bring proofe out of the olde Testament how they acknowledged their highe priest But what is this to the purpose except ye proue their high priest to haue had the same authoritie that your Pope doth clayme For otherwise so say we our godly Princes do acknowledge their godly byshops nor do abandon but reuerence them Neuerthelesse if those their byshops be wicked they may remoue depriue or as ye cal it abandon theÌ„ or otherwise punish them accordingly Thus did king Salomon depriue or abandon Abiathar the high priest And so if ye lyken your Pope to the Iewes highe Priest then hath the byshop brought foorth profe out of the olde Testament to confirme our Princes abandoning of your Pope but muche more if we consider these godly kings examples the foresayde idolatrous priestes suche as in déede al the Popishe priestes bée And also in reiecting suche councels as the Prophet agaynst the naughtie priestes in hys time speaketh of Inite consilium dissipabitur Enter into counsell and it shall be defeated But ye will say they are not like to your couÌ„cels Yet were they alike then is proofe brought foorth euen by the olde Testament agaynst your councels And wherin are they not alike béeing both aduersus Dominum Christum eius agaynst the Lorde and agaynst his annoynted Sauing that herein they are not like in déede those olde councels of the wicked priests yea the councels of Caiphas Annas the high Priests the Scribes and Phariseis that assembled so often agaynst Christ and his Apostles were not halfe so craftie malicious and violent as your Popes generall councels are Where sauing the bare title of generalitie is nothing but partialitie violence and bondage and are nothing lesse than generall as shall be further noted where ye giue occasion further to speake thereon Now to that ye say the Quéene hath abandoned general councels and that by acte of Parliament it is but your generall lie And your selfe very fondly without furder councell in your next wordes confute your owne tale For going about to alleage such motines as cause you to say that the Quéene hath abandoned generall couÌ„cels and that by plaine acte of parliament I say this say you partely for a certaine clawse of the acte of parliament that for the determination of any thing to be adiudged to be heresie resteth onely in the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures and in the first foure generall councels other councels generall wherin any thing is declared heresie by expresse wordes of Scripture Is this the clause that moueth you M. Stapl. to say the acte of parliament abandoneth generall councels this clause doth quite the contrarie most plainly admitting acknowleging the authoritie not onely of the first fowre generall councels but also of all such other as grounde them selues on the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Now what a reason call ye this The acte of Parliament admitteth the determinations of the fower generall councels and other councels generall Ergo generall councels be abandoned by acte of parliament it admitteth them Ergo it abandoneth them Had not your braines admitted somewhat ouermuch which abandoned all counsell and reason 〈◊〉 when ye framed this reason M. Stapleton for by the like reason your selfe do abandon your Pope and generall councels also bicause ye do admitte them Do ye not see therefore how fondly ye reason and how falsly ye say that the acte of parliament abandoneth generall councels when it admitteth and receiueth generall councels and reiecteth so litle any one true generall councell that it admitteth also the determination of anything to be adiudged heresie by any generall councell that the said councel can so proue to be heresie by the worde of God If the acte of Parliament attributeth thus muche to all generall councels doth it abandon them and will you require it shoulde acknowledge them further than euen the godly generall councels themselues in determinations of Heresies would be admitted They alwayes layde before them as their leuell and ruler the holy Scriptures And thinke ye they layde them forth for a cipher in Algorisme as the Pope vseth them in his counsels Or rather as Constantine the great in the Nicene counsell sayde In disputationibus rerum diuinarum aâ—… fidei in quibus tameÌ„ habent sanctissimi spiritus doctrinam praescriptam Euangelici enim Apostolics libri nec non antiquissimoruÌ„ prophetarum oracula planè instruunt nos quid de voluntate dei sentiendum nobis sit Nothing is more vnworthie than c. in disputations of diuine matters and matters of fayth wherein they haue yet prescribed to them the doctrine of the holy ghost for the Euangelistes and Apostles Bookes and also the Oracles of the most auncient Prophetes doe plainely instruct vs what wee ought to thinke concerning the will of God. Athanasius one of the same counsell sayth Quae in Synodo Niâ—…na à patribus secundum diuinas Scripturas exposiâ—… sit fides suffuiens est ad omnem omnis impietatis destructionem ad confirmationem piae in Christo fidei That fayth is sufficient to all destruction of all wickednesse and to the confirmation of a Godly fayth in Christ whiche fayth was expounded of the fathers in the Nicene councell according to the diuine Scriptures And of this generall counsels authoritie sayth saint Augustine Nec ego Nicenum nec tu debes Ariminense tanque praeiudicaturus proferre concilium neque ego huius authoritate neque tu illius detineberis scripturarum authoritatibus c. Neither ought I to alleage the Nicene counsell as giuing any forestalled iudgment nor thou oughtest to alleage the couÌ„sel at AriminuÌ„ neither should I be deteyned by the authoritie of this nor thou of that let the matter be tried by the authorities of the scriptures c. And in this point S. Aug. is so earnest that he woulde admitte no doctrine not proued by the Scriptures but calleth it plaine fabling Ecce singere extra Euangelium est fabulari For behold it is but fabling to faine ought besides the Gospell Neither herein doth S. Augustine thinke he iniured any councel Neque enim saith he quoruÌ„lâ—…bet disputationeâ—… c. Neither ought we so to counte the disputations of any men what soeuer how catholike or laudable soeuer thei be as we
ecclesiastical liuings titles were any Byshop or any member of Christs Church or no euen by your ecclesiastical Canons of which one beginneth NoÌ„ omneâ—… episcopi sunt episcopi al Byshops are not Bishops c. 2. Q 7. Likewise Bernard the Canonist saith Spiritualis gladius ex leui causa non tantum per alios c. the spirituall Sworde mouing and nourishing warres of a light cause not only by other but also by it selfe contrary to right is become a souldiers Sword. Erasmus saith the Popes them selues are rather the successors of such as Iulius Caesar of Alexander Xerxes Croesus and of mightie theeues than the Apostles successors And that there are none so pernicious enemies to the Churche as the wicked Popes that suffer in silence Christe to growe out of knowledge and tie him to gainefull lawes and deflowre him with wrested interpretations and murder him with their pestilent life Call ye these spirituall byshops or rather as Christ said théeues and robbers painted sepulchers rauening wolues or as he called Iudas the Deuill him selfe For why beeing thus degenerate from the office of a Bishop should they haue the name of bishops as their owne law saith Si repriueris nec nomeÌ„ habere mereris It thou want the thing â–ª thou deseruest not the name And as Christe him selfe doth say If the salte haue lost his saltnesse what shal be seasoned therwith it is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out to be troden downe of men These are the spirituall Pastors of the popish Church yeathe Popes them selues being worsse than lay men and yet will be Lordes of all ecclesiasticall liuings lay mens liuings too But I will reserue this matter till ye be disposed to commune furder thereon for they touch néerer the ouerthrows of your Popes claime more decipher the hauiour of his Clergie than they come néere the issue of the Princes gouernment The sixte marke that ye set vp is this VVhat good induction can ye bring from the doings of the Kinges of the old lawe to iustifie that Princes now may make Bishops by letters Patents and that for such and so long time as should please them as either for terme of yeres monethes weekes or dayes What an impudent and too too shamefull a sclaunderer you may be marked to be appeareth by this marke M. St. If Bishops haue their letters patents from the Prince for their Bishoprike had they them not also froÌ„ Princes euen in the most popishe time but that they are made for suche termes as ye write you wilfully belie your Soueraigne The Prince in deede at all times if they do not their dutie and so shal be thought vnworthie may orderly remoue inhibite or punish them And of this the Bishop hath alleaged good proofe in the old Testament And yet if there were no proofe of it there what matter can ye make thereon that your Popes did not practise who licenced deposed restrayned limited and that for such and so long time as should please them As Florobellus saithe of the Pope Item facere potest Praelatum ad tempus He can also make a Prelate for a time And can ye finde such bulles of leade from the doings of the high Priest of the olde lawe If ye can not this marke ouerturnes your Popes supremacie more than it commeth any thing nere the Quéenes The Seuenth marke VVhat good motiue can ye gather by their regiment that they did visit Bishops and Priestes and by their lawes restrayned them to excercise any iurisdiction ouer their flockes to visit their slockes to reforme them to order or correct them without their especiall authoritie and commission thereunto yea to restrayne them by an inhibition from preaching which yee confesâ—…e to be the peculiar function of the Clergie exempted from all superioritie of the Prince This marke hath two partes For the former so farre as ye say true the Bishop hath gathered good motiues by their regiment that they did visite Bishops and Priestes and by their lawes restrained them to exercise any iurisdiction ouer their flockes to visit their flockes to refourme to order and correct them without their especiall commission therevnto for what else was their ordeyning and allowing them their commaunding ordering appointing and directing them Except ye meane hereby for ye spâ—…ake it very subtlely that the Bishops could do none of those functions that belonged to their office after they were appointed therto by the Prince but that for euery thing they must haue a speciall commission and than it is a captiouse sclaunder the Prince doth not so But what belongeth to the Prince herein and what to the Bishop in either of their Iurisdictions is to be considered in the fourth booke Sauing that still ye will augmeÌ„t your counterblast by the way of preuention Your other parte of this marke is a manifest sclaunder The Prince restrayneth no Bishop nor preacher with any simple inhibition from his office of preaching but Secundum quid inhibiting your popish seducers from preaching their traditions and erroneous doctrines such false Prophetes as Christ biddeth vs beware of If ye would preach the onely truthe ye might haue good leaue to preache it Now to stoppe the mouthes of false Idolatrouse Priestes the Bishop in these examples hath brought good proofe hereof no preaching is simplie forbidden but Papistes sectaries and other of noughtie or suspected life or doctrine and therefore where in the margine ye biddâ—… your reader Note here is nothing for him to note but your notorieâ—…se lie and your notable argument that ye make thereon Preaching is the peculiar function of the Clergie exempted from the Prince Ergo The Prince hath not authoritie to restrayne a noughtie preacher nor to inhibite him from preaching false doctrine Proue your argument a little better M. Stapleton and then bidde vs note it els is there litle to note in it but much to note in you For your Eight marke say you VVhat thinke ye that ye can persuade vs also that Bishops and Priestes payed their first fruites and tenthes to their Princes yea and that both in one yeare as they did for a while in Kinge Henries dayes Verely Ioseph would not suffer the very heathen Priests which onely had the bare names of Priests to paie either tythes or fines to Pharao their Prince yea rather he founde them in time of famine vppon the common store This marke Master Stapleten of paying first fruites and tenthes to the Prince is bothe wide from the Bishops marke and mere frinolouse For supposing they payde none yet this supreme gouernement still remayned entiere and whole to the Prince nor the paying it to the Prince maketh him supreme gouernour any whitte the more It was an order taken ye know in the time of your Popes superstition and that not long since neither vnder pretence of helping the Church in hir warres against the Saracens but in very déede
immunities the priuileges of the heatheÌ„ priests they are so like vnto your popish priesthoode but I spare the reader Neuerthelesse what cause soeuer moueth you to write so fauorably for the Egiptian Priests none of these causes or any other maintenance of Idolaters moued Ioseph nor that any other suche lyke priesthoode to come shoulde take hereat any suche prerogatiue of béeing exempt from all fines to their princes The reason that moued Ioseph is apparant in the text He tooke the fift part of the peoples fruites bicause before they helde theÌ„ not of their king but the priests liuing was altogither of the kings gift finding And therfore they payed no portion to the king but the king allowed theÌ„ al the portioÌ„ they had But this that al that they had to liue vpoÌ„ was of the kings gift you quite forgat which argueth their subiectioÌ„ to him ye reasoÌ„ vpoÌ„ their priuiledge Where ye shâ—…ld note withal that al those other their priuiledges liuings came froÌ„ depeÌ„ded on the king And theÌ„ sée how fit a marke therby ye caÌ„ set vp against the Princes gouernmeÌ„t ouer priests Your Ninth and last marke is yet more fond and confused than all the rest besides wherin ye demaund of the Bishop saying Are ye able suppose ye to name any one king that wrote him selfe supreme head of the Iewishe Churche and that in all causes aswell spiritual as temporall and that caused an othe to the priestes and people the nobilitie onely exempted to be tendred that they in conscience did so beleeue and that in a woman prince to yea and that vnder payne of premunire and playne treason too Me thinkes ye play huddle now in the latter end M. St. sixe or seuen markes togither in one For the title of supreme head for receyuing the othe for the persons receyuing it the persons exempted the maner of receyuing it the Princes person and the penaltie of the refusall All these matters on a plumpe for haste come in one liuerie with the cognisance of your Ninth marke how neere the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feckenham I remit to the view of others To all these demaundes bicause ye are in hast and therfore thrust them out on an heape togither that the one might be a cloake to the other I will briefly answere them as they lye To your first demaunde for the Title thinke ye this a good argument No king of the Iewes wrote this title of supreme head or gouernour Ergo No king of the Iewes was so By the same argument no king of Englande before king Henrie wrote him selfe Defender of the faythe neither any king of the Iewes wrote that tytle Ergo None of them were defenders of the faythe And by the same argument your holy Father myghte léese a ioly Uicarige that he claymeth from Christ and Peter for neither of them wrote suche titles as he doth nor the highe Priest in the olde Testament wrote any suche stile as he dothe Ergo he claymeth his supremacie from them in vaine But this is a vaine argument if you can proue not the title so muche an the matter the thing and effecte of the title to come from them to him no man will stande with you in the stile but graunt your Pope his clayme This can you not do and therfore your Popeâ—…tytle is but vaine But this for the Princes supreme gouernment the Bishop hath named the Princes in the olde Testament and fully proued it that in matter thing and effect they tooke vppon them this supreme gouernance that the Quéenes Maiestie iustly claymeth now And this béeing proued as before till ye can improue this what babble ye of the title and yet since ye can bring no sufficient proofe of your Popes title neither why maketh this argument more agaynst the Prince than it doth agaynst the Pope Your second quarell is at the othe but the content therof as is proued béeing true why ought they not to sweare therto yea thoughe there were in the olde Testament no such ensample of an othe ministred by the Prince to hys subiects And yet we read how Iosias swore al his subiects to the lord But ye wil say this othe is not for the Prince to sweare them to Gods religion but to his estate If his estate be dutiful by gods religioÌ„ is he not therby also sworn thervnto And why then may not the Prince for his more assurance make an especiall othe thereof so well as a generall But was it lawfull for your Pope to sweare them to his vndue supremacie and is it not lawfull for the prince in a matter so due vnto him If you stil vrge a playne manyfest ensample to be shewed you where in expresse wordes suche an othe was then required I pray you and you will not deale partially M. Stap â–ª shewe you another example where the highe Priest of the Iewes required such an othe of the Clergie as your Pope dyd minister to those vnder him To that ye stande on the tendring the othe to the Priestes and the people and to aggrauate the matter as partiall say the Nobilitie be exempted partely is fonde and partely false For the Nobilitie or any other in certayne offices are not exempted But see the proude orgulous harte of this Priest howe he picketh quarels agaynst the Noibilitie bicause heerein they haue any prerogatiue ouer his priestly order But he maketh a matter in that the othe is that they in conscience did so beleeue as thoughe they coulde sweare therto and can not beleeue it in their consciences Belike master Stapleton your popishe Priestes make good otheâ—… and haue good consciences and beléefes that can sweare to a thing and haue no conscience or can haue conscience and not beléeue it so to be as ye sweare It is to be feared that some of your order haue so done Whether you haue done so or no I will not say for I knowe not your dealing nor am ouer curious to search out your olde reckonings But I thinke some of your good masters are not all in cleane life thereof Your outcrie at a womans Prince to haue thys Tytle yea and that say you in a woman Prince to sheweth your impudent spite agaynst your most gracious soueraigne and withall your impudent follie A woman Prince to say you If a Prince Master Stap. and why not a woman Prince to Will ye graunt hir to be a Prince and take from hir the duty that these ensamples shew doth belong vnto a prince Therefore eyther ye muste denie that a woman may be a prince or else graunt this authoritie yea to a woman prince to And doth not the Scripture commende yea a woman Prince to to suppresse Idolaters and tyraunts to gouerne and iudge Gods people And why may not now a woman Prince to deliuer vs as the Quéenes Maiestie hath done from the yoke of a greater tyrant and all his Idolaters to and
in heauen things that are in earth things visible things inuisible whether they be Maiestie or Lordship either rule or power al things are created by him and in him be is before all things and in him all things haue their being and he is the head of the bodie that is to wit of the congregation he is the beginning and first begotten that in all thinges he might haue the preheminence for it pleased the father that in him all fulnesse should dwell and by him to reconcile all things to him selfe and to set at peace by him through the bloud of his Crosse both things in heauen and things in earth Here is no mencion at all of hir but all of him master Stapleton for whome all things were made But euen these properties of Christ this blasphemous doctour applieth to hir and sayth your Church doth so For a little before he sayth Sed hoc loco c. But in this place is to be asked whether the blessed virgin were brought forth before all creatures For of hir sayth the Church that saying Eccle. 24. Ab initio ante secula creata sum From the beginning and before the worlde was I made and againe in the Epistle of this solemnitie the Virgine is brought in saying that sentence Prou. 8. The Lord hath possessed me from the beginning of his wayes before he made any thing euen from the beginning from euerlasting I was ordeyned and from of olde before the earth was made as yet the depthes were not and I was alreadie begotten as yet the fountaynes flowed not with water nor as yet the mountaynes in their great compasse were setled before all the hilles was I begotten VVhich wordes doe seeme so to sounde that she was brought forth before the bringing forth of any other thing Who is he that knoweth not that these wordes are spoken of the eternall sonne of God begotten before all ages and is euen one wyth that S. Iohn sayth In the beginning was the worde and yet bicause it is spoken in the feminine gender vnder the name of the eternall wisedome of God he most ignoranâ—…ly and Idolatrously transferreth it to the virgin Marie Neyther he alone but he sayth your Church doth so so that all your whole Church is a blasphentous Church And thus ye ascribe the promise of the blessed seede to the blessed virgine saying not it but shee shall tread downe the serpents heade So where Dauid sayth Non est qui se abscondat à â—…alore 〈◊〉 None can hide him from his heate ye say none can hide him from hir heate Likewise where the wisedome of God sayth In the welbeloued Citie gaue he me rest in Hierusalem was my power Iacobus de Udragine applieth it to hir saying Primo pater c. First the father hath made hir mightie to helpe Eccle. 24. in Hierusalem was my power for she is made so mightie that she can help vs in life in death and after death c. Againe where Christe sayth I am exalted like a Palme tree aboute the bankes and as a rose Palme in Hierico as a fayre Oliue tree in a pleasant fielde that ascribeth he to hir saying Sunt enim quidam c. There are some Saints who when they are prayed vnto follow the information of their conscience and therefore often tymes they will not pray to God for vs bicause they haue a conscience that they are not worthie to be heard Other Saintes there are that when they are prayed vnto they follow the streightnesse of Gods righteousnesse And therefore if they be desired and knowe that this is not fitte for Gods iustice they dare not aske but the blessed Virgin neither looketh to conscience nor to iustice but to mercie As who should say let them keepe their consciences to themselues that lust and let them that will loke to Gods iustice I will alwayes hold me to mercie and for this so excellent Modestie shee sayth of hir selfe Eccle. 24. I am as a fayre Oliue in the fieldes Yea you say shée hath such excéeding and excelling mercie that not onely it passeth all the Saints but that illud quod dicitur Eccl. 18. de Domino potest dici etiaÌ„ de Domina c. That the which is spoken Eccle. 18. of the Lorde may be spoken of the Ladie The mercie of a man is towarde his neighbour but the mercie of the Lorde is ouer all flesh Thus ye robbe God of his glory to adourne hir attributing all to hir And say that the father hath written in hir his power where Christ sayth contrarie all povver is giuen me of my father in heauen and earth c. that the sonne hath vvritten in hir his vvisedome that the holy ghost hath vvritten in hir his goodnesse and mercie Againe the father hath made hir his Treasorer vvhereby shee hath conquered the Deuill and povvreth into cur mindes diuine knovvledge The sonne hath made hir his Chamberlayne The holy ghost hath made hir his Cellerer The vvhole Trinitie hath made hir Almosiner of heauen Shee is Chauncellour to the holy ghost shee is Porter of Paradise Ipsa nanque est ostium c. For shee is the doore by the vvhich vve enter into Paradise vvhich by Eue vvas shutte and by hir is opened Ipsa enim est quae nos suis meritis in atrium principis introducit For it is shee that by hir merits bringeth vs into the porch of the Prince VVhervpoÌ„ Ioh. 18 it is sayde A Damsell that was the doore keeper the blessed virgine calleth hirselfe an handemayde or Damsell let in Peter into the Princes porche Ipsa nanque virgo For euen the virgin is the vvindovv vvherby God beholdeth vs vvith the eie of mercie Uirgo autem Maria. The Virgin Marie is the throne of mercy grace and glorie she is the Sunne to the iust the Moone to the Saints the faithful vvitnesse to sinners the aduocate of mankinde the drop that softneth all hardnesse There vvere three things that once vvere hard God that receyued none to mercie Death that svvalovved vp all to hell the Deuill that enraged vvith enmitie But the Virgin Marie so mollified God that he receiued all men to mercie She so trodde death vnder foote that novve he can not take avvay the Saints Shee ouercame the Deuill that he can novve â–ª deceyue none but him that lust to be deceyued that novv shee may say I forsake you not but as a drop I abyde vvith you bicause my odour abydeth vvith you vvherevvith I haue mollifyed God I haue troden dovvne death I haue ouercome the Deuill This is one droppe of hir grace master Stap. but what can ye ascribe more to al the droppes of the bloud of christ To conclude ye make hir all in all Shee â—…lenseth vs from our sinnes â–ª shee lightneth vs from ignorance she strengthneth vs from our infirmities Et per ipsam virg c. and by the blessed
the mercies of God pardoning our sinnes by not imputation The fauour and grace of God offered in Christe vnto vs by imputation of his righteousnesse workes and merites and not of ours but the father accepting his as ours bicause we are incorporated into him depend by faith on him in whom the father is onely well pleased and this is our Iustification Which is so sealed vp in vs by the spirite of God sanctifying vs to do all true good workes that by the shining of them God is glorified the fleshe subdued the spirite quickned our consciences appeased our fayth assured our liues bettred our fruites yéelded our duties discharged our neighbours helped the godly reioyced the weake confirmed the mouthes of the enimies stopped Gods commaundement obeyed practised and the workes of the diuell manyfest euill or hypocriticall detected abandoned and destroyed Not that these thinges be perfectly done but that we striue to perfection by them not that we are cleane dead to sinne as the Monkes boasted but that we dye dayly as S â–ª Paule sayth and still mortifie the olde man Not that we fulfill al the law of God or supererogate more as the Papistes vaunt but that fighting continually with Sathan with the worlde with fleshe and bloud all our workes are vnperfect Muche lesse that by our good workes we satisfie for our ill workes But that when we haue all done we are vnprofitable seruaunts for any satisfaction For howe can any vnperfect goodnesse which notwithstanding is not ours and so we can not boast thereon Si accepisti quid gloriaris if thou hast receyued it why boastest thou make satisfaction for perfect wickednesse Least of all that for any worke we can do or for any trouble we can suffer that we should merite the fruitioÌ„ of God the most perfect thing of all Non sunt condignae passiones huius teÌ„poris ad futuraÌ„ glâ—…riaÌ„ quae reuelabitur in nobis The afflictioÌ„s of this life are not answerable to the glory to come that shall be reuealed in vs. But that all the goodnesse of our good works all the rewarde of them is of him that fréely for Christes sake accepteth them and for his sake will crowne them bicause we be Christes and Christ is his and he is all in al in vs This is our doctrine of good works M. Sta. descerning our owne workes from the fruites of the spirite of God working in those whome he hath iustified holynesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of their life till tyme hâ—… glorifie them And thus in déede set we foorth the doctrine of iustificatioÌ„ without all workes be they neuer so good yea without our selues too in whom this iustification is wrought CoÌ„fessing God to be all in all and our selues the workmanship of his haÌ„ds And this was the grouÌ„d the fouÌ„dation and welspring not of our new Gospell as ye terme it but of the new Testament and ancient Gospell of Iesus christ Upon which foundation we béeing grounded farewell al your merites your supererogatorie more thaÌ„ merites your masses your traditions your ceremonies reliques Images myracles inuocations vowes purgatorie al this bagge baggage what soeuer your other not written verities or rather false forgeries which béeing not subiect to Gods righteousnes ye haue soght before meÌ„ to iustifie yourselues withal Thus much M. St. to the heresies ye charge vs with for This shall suffice ye say at this present to make open to all the worlde that they are no secret nor petit heresies that ye and your fellowes mainteyne What we mainteine M. St. is in déede not secret hyd as your mysteries secret conspiracies are but as Christ saide of his doctrine is dayly taught openly in the temple is proclaymed on the house toppe the corner stone is not caste aside in a hole of our builders but is made the head stone of the buylding The candle is not hidde vnder a bushell The people maye sée it and sée by it as thankes be to God they do more and more full sore agaynst your willes neither al the puffes of your counterblast can blow the light of this holy candle out But ye crie all is heresie heresie In déede suche as was layde to S. Paules charge is this heresie of ours It is soone sayde to call it heresie as ye haue done al this while but it would cumber you to proue it heresie as yet ye haue not done Ye haue héere layde many things vnto vs where either we defende not any suche thing at all nor any suche like thing And your selues for the moste parte defende them or the like or else a contrarie as ill or worsse As for such doctrine as we in déede defende except your slaunderous rayling ye haue brought not one worde agaynst it to proue any one heresie or errour aperte or priuie Neuerthelesse bicause of your instant crying and importune craking I haue answered a great deale further than either the principal issue about the princes supremacie or the volume could well suffer or than I minded or néeded to haue done For to say truth ye haue not nor ye can obiect any thing that your masters haue not obiected before and is not answered already by others chiefly by that Reuerende father in Christ the Byshop of Sarisburie whome you so often snatche and snurre at and not you alone but al the packe of you as at him whome God hath raysed vp as a singuler Iuell and instrument to open confute all your falshoods Yet since your impudencie is so extreme still to crie out vpon vs as though nothing were done or spekeÌ„ in the matter saying Come foorth once and cleare your selfe of this onely obiection if you can beeing so often pressed therwith If you maynteine olde condemned heresies what are ye lesse than heretikes them selues if you maynteyne them not or if they be not heresies that you maynteyne cleare your selfe if you be able I assure you master Horne you and all your fellowes will neuer bee able to auoyde this one onely obiection c. Since ye thus still crie and call vpon vs as though nonâ—… had answered to these obiectioÌ„s I haue therfore thus much at your earnest entreatie digressed thus farre from the principall question to satisfie if playne truthe for Rhethorike I leaue to you and other may satisfie your importunitie and fedde withal your vayne humor that where ye haue made and translated many braue bookes to the which your margine oftentimes sendeth vs to put vs in remembraunce what a ioly writer you be and thinke you muste néedes be answered or else al is marred and then ye might say with the Soluters dawe oleum operam perdidi I haue loste all my cost and labour if no man should regarde my workes ye still crie out therefore to be answered and bidde vs come foorth and we dare as though it were Golias and yet any one poore séelie stone of our
déede I haue graunted that both I you denie not this that the Quéene ought to make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes Religion And if ye marke it all this matter lies in this worde furtherance Furtheraunce I graunted But I warrant ye I raunced no fâ—…rder I told not as yet how farre nor how much nor how litle this furtherance stretcheth Do ye not know that euery thing that yeâ—… any whitte be it neuer so little is yet a furtherance and euery thing yekes quoth the wrenne when she pist in the sea as the old Prouerbe faith and euen as much furtherance in this matter as you shall sée me bring it aboute haue I graunted Princes and ye know as good neuer a whit as neuer the better They shal be neuer the better for this my graunt no more than when I made them like the Heathen Princes Onely now being pressed it standeth me vppon to alter my wordes and giue them a Title of furderance for a clawe but so cunningly handled that they can go no furder than we allow them And so may ye turne this furtherance to their hindrance as you shall perceyue anon will you say In the meane season ye enter solemnly into your seconde parcell to confirme this your straunge graunt that might otherwise séeme newes to your fréendes and to vs saying And for my parte M. Horne that you may not thinke I haue now bene first so aduised vppon sight of your booke I haue forced that argument with many examples of godly Emperours and Princes in my Dedicatorie Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie before the translated historie of the venerable Bede It seemeth ye want good neighbours M. St. at Louaine that thus are driuen to set out your worthie volumes But belike they take you if ye haue saide as much there as ye haue done here to be a false dissembler pretending in cloked wordes a furderance and in déede minding none but rather an empayring of their estate and so perhappes ye may go beyonde them all And thinking â—…eatly to defeate vs suppose that your fréendes will like well of this daliance and that we poore soules can not see how trimme ye daunce naked in a nette Yes M. Stapleton thankes be to God our eyes be not so dimme but we may sée this disobedience yea all the worlde may see it And iâ—… no man could espie it except it were declared your selfe will open your falshood ye can not kéepe your owne councell but by and by bewray al your former graunt of making lawes and constitutions and all the Princes furtherance therein in conclusion to come to nothing or as good as nothing or rather worse if worse may be than nothing Briefly say you all â—… Augustines wordes force nothing els but that Christian Princes may make lawes to punishe Heretikes and ought to fortifie the Decrees of the Priestes with the execution of the secular power when obstinate Heretikes will not otherwise obey Lo Masters mine may ye say to your fellowes M. Stapleton now ye neede not feare that I graunted ouer much to Princes when I denied not but that they might and ought to make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion and yet is nothing lost from our Popes religioÌ„ by this graunt yea thus it serueth our turne very well say you In deede M. Stapleton if ye can bring all your iolie mightie graunt to this if ye can thus quickly â—…hwite a post to a pudding-pricke I will say also with you ye haue turned it so well that ye haue made it serue your turne very well And that so well that God wote of all these lawes â–ª constitutions and furtherance here is nothing left at al the qualifying of your graunt hath taken it cleane away For if I should replie that though ye haue taken away the making of lawes and constitutions for the setting forth of Christes religion yet haue ye left to Princes lawes for punishing Heretikes if they see any Bishops or Priestes that be teachers of false doctrine they may call them before them they may examine them and if they finde them suche they may by their lawes depose them or otherwise punishe them Fye no no will you replie ye are quite deceyued man Gods forâ—…ode that I shoulde haue graunted Princes to make lawes for punishing Heretikes on that fashion then as good haue graunted all vnto them Nay will you say ye should haue marked what followed and how cunningly and warily I limited their making of lawes I saide they ought to fortefie the decrees of the Priestes Which argueth that the Priestes not the Princes must make in very déede all the lawes of punishment And wâ—…te ye well if they make them they be no babes they can tell on which side their bread is buttred they will so make them that they will kéepe them selues harmelesse be ye sure But softe M. Stapleton saide ye not the Prince muste make lawes â–ª yes but the Priestes must decree them say you then a Goâ—…s name let the Prince make them when the Priestes haue decreed them In 〈◊〉 there ye went beyonde me an ace M. Stapleton But go to yet the Princes ye say ought to fortifie the decree that is to say they must establish and giue force by their royall authoritie vnto that the Priestes haus decreed to be conuenient and otherwise it is not of force Nay in any case will you say beware that I meane not so but thus I declare my meaning furder they shall fortifie the Priestes decree with the execution of the seculer power that is to say by their riches armies swordes and might they shall put to death or fight against such as we Priests that be the Churche shall decree and appoint them being seculer Why M. Stapl. what is all this this is nothing in plainâ—… Englishe but to make Princes your very butchers tormentours and slaughtermen Nay say you they shall not do thus much neither when they will but if ye marke I saide in the ende for fayling when obstinate Heretikes will not otherwise obey then wil we assigne Princes to hamper them Nowe forsoth gramercie horse that ye can not or will not do your selues that ye thrust to Princes to be your drudges therein are they not well holpen vp by this your liberall offer they are much beholding to you for so large a charter The texte of your graunt gaue much but your glosse takes all away againe But Maledicta glassa â–ª say I quâ—… corrumpit textum all be shrewd be that glosse that corruptes the text so long as ye limite your text with such a glose ye may giue your graunt to what Princes ye shall a faire catche they shall haue thereof They ought saith your graunt to deale in Ecclesiasticall matters and make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion That is to wete saith your glosse to let the Priestes make all decrees and they with
al and only true and all that we replie is starke false Thirdly the Prince must not condemne vs but you our enemies and accusers must sit vppon vs and condemne vs Fourthly the Prince must as you bid him put vs to death and for more assuraunce to catche vs ye giue him this libertie that he may make any lawe to attache vs to emprison vs to heade hang or burne vs Prouided alway that this lawe be nothing else but for punishment and that of those that you appoint and will crie ouâ—… vpon for heretikes and to deale no further Here is all things made sure against the poore protestantes Who séeth not that euen as shéepe appointed to the slaughter they must néedes die if you but please to bid the prince to kill them they must néedes be heretikes if once you call them so And now that ye haue brought your matters to this passe let vs sée how ye cry out against vs. VVe say with S. Aug. say you that princes may punish wicked deprauers of religion And we further saye that you are those O maister St. that ye woulde stande to your word say as S. Aug â–ª did But it may be ye will say it with S. August but will ye also meane it with S. Augustine for there is litle trust to your saying without your meaning Ensample right now of your last graunt wherein you spared not to belie S. Aug. if ye meane with S. Aug. plainly that Princes may punish wicked deprauers of religion as did the Emperour in S. Augustines time there is then yet good hope of equitie that you shall not be your owne Iudges and our condemners to But the Prince shall appoint delegates vprightly betwéene vs both yea the matter maye come to be hearde and discussed before the prince himselfe and to bée iudged of him who are in the right who are in the wrong for thus did the Emperour in S. Augustines time and S. Augustine lyked well of it but of all things you cannot abide this and yet ye boast for fashion saâ—… that ye saye with S. August Princes may punishe wâ—… deprauers of religion But ye adde withall at the harde héeles thereof And we further saye that you are those Whereby ye signifie howe farre ye will allowe their punishing And that the prince and all must be ruled by your bare saying for ye alleage no reason or argument to preue it but onely auouch it saying And wee further saye that you are those As though your bare so saying were full proofe of the matter and reason good inough to cause the prince to punish vs. But if the Prince take that ye haue graunted hym to punishe the wicked deprauers of religion as Saint Augustine sayeth he ought and the Emperour then did then so fast as you shall saye that wee are those we will also not saye onelye but prooue that you are those And a righteous Prince will punishe as he séeth prooues and not as he heareth onely sayings Nowe therfore if ye will say with S. Augustine thus tell on your tale hardilye and we feare not your malice VVe say with Saint Augustine say you that Christian Princes maye make a decree ye à of death as did Nabuchodonozor against the blasphemers of God and carefully prouide that God and his Sacraments be not lightly contemned This is well sayde of you master Stapleton and euen the same with tongue and heart say we and haue proued it alreadie with many ensamples But you say it from the teeth outwarde howe chaunce else that ye sayde not thus much before Yea howe chaunce ye sayde that Saint Augustine ment no more but of their lawes for punishing Heretikes Here are lawes for blasphemers also And though euery Heretike be a blasphemer yet is not euery blasphemer an Heretike And ye knowe Nabuchodonozors lawe was not of Heretikes but of Heathen blasphemers And yet besides the lâ—… of their punishing howe chaunce ye forgot also this part of their authoritie carefully to prouide that God and icâ—… Sacraments be not lightly contemned Is all this carefull prouiding nothing else but punishing Heretykes yes master Stapleton it importeth muche more and euen as muche as we ascribe to Princes and as the Quéenes Maiestie taketh on hir And nowe that yee haue once againe graunted thus muche to Princes spare not a Gods name to charge vs with the worst ye can onelye stande you to your tackling as we wyll stande to ours VVe say say you you are as great blasphemers as euer the Church of Christ had How proue ye that M. Stap. say we why say you we say so and that is proufe good ynough for vs In déede it is proufe good ynough for you yea the best proufe that ye haue For bad ye any better I knowe ye woulde not spare to lay it in our dishe But remember master Stapleton that yee haue giuen the Prince that authoritie of punishing blasphemers that Saint Augustine gaue to the Emperour in his time That is to wete not to punish he wottes not what but by his authoritie eyther to appoynt Delegates or himselfe to sit and here the tryall and iudge who are the blasphemers and who are not So that nowe your saying we be will not serue yuo in stéed vnlesse ye proue your saying Else might we put it to a double post and say passe to you you are greater blasphemers yea the greatest blasphemers that euer the Churche of Christ had And to proue it not onely on you but euen of your head also your holy father the Pope whose blessed lippes can they blaspheme trow you I praye ye remember who sayde he woulde eate Porke despetto de dâ—…o euen in dispite of GOD. But let this blasphemous Porkeling go and say you on master Stapleton VVe say say you you be they that haue contemned Christes sacraments making of seuen two and vsing those two after such a sort that the olde prouerbe may the more is the pittie in a maner take place as good neuer a whitte as neuer the better Here is still nothing but we say to aunswere therefore we say with we say we say agayne that you are those Sophisters that by the arte of multiplication whereof ye spake in your Preface haue learned muche more comning than had the scholler of Oxeforde that woulde make thrée egges of two you will make seuen of two and comming out with your fiue egges as the Preuerbe also sayth euery one of them are rotten making of two Sacraments seuen But fiue of them are of your owne hatching Cocks egges without yolkes no sacraments at all And two of them the one baptisme fowly prophaned the other hurled quite away and an Idoll euen by your owne definition of an Idoll put in place This lay we to your charge proue vs lyers and ye can And to that ye say we contemne Christs Sacraments we briefly say againe ye say vntruth except ye can proue we
do so VVe say further say you that not onely the generall Councell of Trent but that the whole Churche hath condemned your opinions by generall and nationall Councels many hundreth yeares since VVe say further also that as your Councell of Trent so did the Priests the Lawyers Scribes and Pharises assemble togither held a councell against Christ in his absence and Caiphas gaue iudgement on him that one man meaning Christ should die for the people And so hath your Trident Councell in their absence condemned Christ in his members The residue of your saying is but your lying vaunt of the whole Church where in deede ye meane but the popish Church â–ª ye crake of many hundred yeares but ye tel not howe many they be nor what is condemned nor by whoÌ„ nor where nor when nor what Councell generall nor prouinciall but carie away the matter in generalities But we say to you againe in generall speach that not onely Generall and Nationall Councels haue condemned many of your doctrines many hundreth yeares since but euen Christ him selfe and his Apostles yea some of your owne Popes yea some of your owne selues habentes cauterizatam conscientiam hauing their consciences marked with a hote iron haue condemned them And all this partly hath bene alredy sufficiently and partly shall be further prooued in particulars as we descende thereto And if we go no further than the present matter and issue in hande concerning the Princes authoritie yea euen with your owne mouth or euer we haue done ye shall yet more than once againe condemne this your owne saying that the Princes gouernement in ecclesiasticall matters stretcheth no further than to make lawes and constitutions to punishe heretikes Nowe when ye haue thus with bare sayings charged vs to be heretikes ye woulde charme the Prince also in putting him in remembrance that his dutie stretcheth not now to stande in examining all this that ye lay to vs nor to iudge therevpon whether it be true or false but on the credit of your bare honesties and words to make forthwith some sharpe lawes of attaching hanging sacking drowning or burning vs for condemned Heretikes bicause you haue so called 〈◊〉 To this purpose therefore say you And that Christian Emperours christian Princes as well in other countries as in Englande especially the noble and worthie king Henry the fifte haue made sharpe lawes yea of death against Heresies VVe do not nor neuer did disalowe these their doyngs as repugnant either to the olde or newe Testament VVhy then call you for this respect the Catholikes popishe Donatistes The Bishop sâ—… called them M. St. not with Bare sayings as you haue here called vs deprauers blasphemers and condemned Heretikes But the â—… hath so proued his sayings that as ye haue hearde all your improuinges were to no purpose but to bring M. Feckenham more in the mire and to proue him a greater Donatiste and your selfe also in his defence Ye say ye do not nor neuer did disalowe as repugnant to the old or new Testament Christian Emperours and Princes doings nor king Henry the fifte his sharpe lawes yea of death against herefies If ye do not so disalowe them as repugnant then be they conformable But how chance then your selfe excusing M. Feckenham saide he omitted them bicause they made against him if they make against him they are repugnant to him And if you disalowe them not as repugnant then are you repugnant to him and to your owne excuse for him Yea what repugnancie your wordes present do implie or what doubtfull vnderstanding ye meane in saying we do not nor neuer did I leaue to your owne expounding whether ye meane ye did neuer or euer or sometimes disalowe them and in adding as repugnant whether ye meane ye disalow them in other senses or 〈◊〉 But interprete your owne sayinges as ye lust if ye say to conster them to the beste ye disalowe them not as repugnant that is ye allow them as agréeable in those doings of Princes in the olde Testament â–ª then as King salomon displaced Abiathar the high Priest so may the Emperour displace the Pope and other Princes their Bishops when they be vnworthie of their roumes and offices But besides the punishing of false teachers and Heretikes by their lawes that ye allowe in the Princes of the old Testament for Princes vnder the newe Testament to do the like did they nothing els made they no other lawes and constitutions ecclesiasticall or do ye allow them onely for their lawes in punishments and disalow them for all other lawes and constitutions that they made Well what soeuer you allow or disallow God allowed them and liked well of them And therefore to all Christian Princes they ought to be paternes to do the like not onâ—…ly in zeale of punishment of heretikes abolishing Herefiâ—… superstitioÌ„s Idolatries and all errours but also in setting forth the true and sincere religion of Christes gospell and ouerséeing that the Prelates and Pastours the Nobilitie the Magistrates the people and all subiects what soeuer do euery one their dutie in receyuing and aduauncing the same But this ye vtterly disalowe in Princes if they go one inche furder than lawes of punishment of those whom ye giue vp to them to punish and the defence of your persons and goodes making Princes either your waighting garde or els your slaughtermen and there is al say you that in these matters Princes haue to deale And for this respect we not onely call you but proue you popish Donatistes Nowe that by crying out vppon vs you thinke ye haue fully cléered your selfe ye enter into your other point to burden vs with this crime of the Donatistes euen to denie that little which you graunt vnto Princes Which surely were a cunning poinâ—… 〈◊〉 do to proue that we denie with the Donatistes that which we affirme against the Donatistes and you too First we affirme that it appertayneth to the Princes supreme authoritie next vnder God by the aduise of their godly and learned estates to make lawes and constitutions to punish Heretikes â—…ismatikes erronious teachers and to abolishe all their false doctrines And also to make lawes and constitutions for the setting forth of all true doctrine and to appointe godly learned setters out thereof This say we before hande if now you can make vs beléeue we holde the coÌ„trary to this that were worth the séeing But will ye know M. Horne say you who be in this point in very deede the doltish diuelish Donatistes hearken on well and ye shall heare On to M. Stapleton hitherto we heare nothing but your blacke Rhetorike not worthe the hearing which remitting to your common place thereon tell on your tale and we will hearken The Donatistes as S. Augustine reporteth saide it was free to beleeue or not to beleeue and that faithe should not be forced VVas not this I pray you the common song among
the Lutherans in Germanie and Englande at their beginning was not this your Apostles Luthers opinion that no man should be compelled to the faith and as there are many dissentions diuisions Scismes betwixte you the Sacramentaries and the Lutherans so are you deuided also in this point For your Master Caluine writeth that a maÌ„ may lawfully and by Gods lawe be put to death for heresie as he practised him selfe also burning Seâ—…etus the Arian at Geneua Sée how your selfe beyng blinded with pure enuie M. Stapleton while ye studie with all bitternesse of termes to deface vs to the simple to all wise meÌ„ ye cléere acquite vs of the crime ye obiect against vs Ye say we are Sacramentaries and that Caluine is our Maister Ye say furder that our Maister Caluine writeth that a man may lawfully and by Gods lawe be put to death for Heresie I aske ye here if this were the opinion of the Donatistes if they then saide the contrarie to vs and we to them then haue your selfe discharged vs of this crime that euen contrarie to your conscience and wittingly ye sclaunder vs with Which is so euident a matter that euery man hereafter may iustly take you for a common lying sclaunderer Do not your selfe also complaine in many places euen of this counterblast that we would haue the Prince execute more seueritie towardes you and that we séeke your bloud and such other thinges wherein although in that matter ye sclaunder vs yet euen your sclaundering purgeth vs in this matter And do ye not say here present we are deuided in this pointe and so againe ye cléere vs of this crime But say you all Luthers schollers in Germanie are not so forewarde I know not all Luthers schollers for my parte M. Stapleton â–ª and I ghesse you know them not all neither But suppose as ye say all be not so forwarde yet if they be forwarde they are againe discharged of this your lying crime Yet say you this was Luthers opinion and their common song in the beginning If slaundering were not your common song M. Stapleton ye would neuer sing thus purposely out of tune It is well knowne the reuerence and obedience that Luther teacheth subiects to yeld to their Princes euen to the death But wilfully ye peruert and wrest his wordes he spake not of fayth simply among professed Christians but of some doubtes of faith He saide they should not be onely forced without outwarde violence but rather with persuasion and argumentes if it might be if not then the Magistrate might lawfully punishe the obstinate for his errour or Heresie So he declared of Muncer and other Heretikes séeing their peruersenesse that the Magistrate might lawfully punish him and his adherents yea that he ought so to do and thereto he vehemently excited them This was Luthers opinion and what fault finde you therewith In déede agaynst those that are Infidels Turkes Iewes Heathen or any any other not professed Christians he sayd Christians ought not béeing not prouoked by them to set on their realmes and prouoke them onely of purpose by force of armes to make them become Christians And in this behalfe he spake muche agaynst the foule abuses of the Pope in his Croyses and practises aboute the Turkish warres But what is this to this purpose in hande yea what is all this either of Luther or Caluine if there were suche diuision in this poynte betweene them as you like a makebate would set where none is to the matter in question The question is whether the Prince may punishe heretikes and that by death Which bothe Luther and Caluine graunt ye may But the Donatistes denied this bicause they beeing apparant heretikes perceiued it made against them you shoulde likewise haue proued that Luther and Caluine and that we were heretikes or else it toucheth vs not at all For would ye haue the Prince put to death the faythful Christian Luther Caluine might wel ye know and ought to speake agaynst that They sawe the violent practises of you Papistes in murthering and deuouring the poore shéepe of Christ and can ye wite them if they coÌ„playned therof Ye shoulde haue first proued vs to be the heretikes But you will say that I haue done already Ye haue done so in deede M. St. after the Popish maner that is to say ye haue called vs heretikes and starke heretikes and condemned heretikes ofte inoughe and if that will do it And ye haue tolde euen right now that ye say we be heretikes al to nought with we say and we say on the head of it These sayings we haue hearde as ye bad vs harken but we haue hearde neuer a proofe Nowe what muste the Prince héere do 〈◊〉 he not examine and searche out bothe our proofes and punish not the faythfull be léeuer but whome he findeth to be the heretike And thus if ye wil néedes haue death the punishment in Gods name euen death be it But then M. St. I thinke ye will not be halfe so hastie no ye had rather I dare say kéepe ye still at Louayne Héere entreth M. St. agayne into an inuectiue agaynst M. Foxes booke For that booke and the bishop of Sarisburies are his chiefest eyesores so that I blame him the lesse that he startleth so often at them as all his companions and masters do besides For the one for their practises and the other for their errours haue almost marde all their estimation with their friends But his by matters I will not answere only to the question now in argument Yea sayth he some of your holy martyres auouche that the King can make no lawe to punishe any maner of crime by death and that al suche lawes are contrarie to the Gospel This was the opinion of sir Thomas Hitton priest Where finde ye this master Stapleton this is you will saye an article layde vnto him that he defended Yea but are you sure master Stapleton that he in déede defended this as it is héere set out and that it is not rather altogither deuised for malice or peruerted misconstrued as many other haue béene the false witnesses wrested the sayings of Christ that he should denie tribute to Cesar that he went about to destroy the temple c. Yea the title let on his crosse if the Priestes might haue had their will should not haue béene writteÌ„ as it was The like wresting of his sayings vsed the Iewes with S. Steuen And in the primitiue Churche were many articles obiected to the poore Martyres of refusing obedience to magistrates of licencious lyfe of vnnaturall commixtures of murdring and eating children And euen suche malicious misconstrued articles the Papistes deuise on the Protestants that in the meane while are gagged nor suffred once to speake and declare their innocencie But blessed are you sayth Christ when men reuile you and speake all euill on you for my name sake But you say this is no slaunder
or no. Now ye may conclude sayth master Stapleton that there is some regiment that Princes may take vpon them in causes Ecclesiasticall Thankes be giuen to God master Stapleton that yet now at the length contrary to all your felowes to all your owne wranglings hitherto the force of the truth hath enforced you to yelde thus much to the B. ye graunt Now that Princes haue some regiment in ecclesiasticall causes which hitherto except the making a law of burning or punishing be an eccl. cause ye haue altogither denied vnto Princes But what is this some regiment that ye graunt theÌ„ now for neither we graunt them al regiment but some regiment also that is to say a supreme regiment And you also denie not in your marginall note that they may take vpon theÌ„ in ecclesiastical matters supreme gouernmeÌ„t authority power care but not say you such supreme gouernment as the othe prescribeth so that here we both agrée of supreme gouernment but the kinde of supreme gouernment is denied And to specifie your meaning herein how large a kind ye graunt or denie ye adde he should haue concluded in all things and causes else he concludeth not agaynst you signifying that you deny to them a supreme gouernment in all things causes ecclesiastical but ye graunt them a supreme gouernment authoritie power and care in things and causes ecclesiasticall First M. Stap. this is but a iangling and shifting quarell in wordes about things and causes ecclesiasticall and all things and causes ecclesiasticall For not onely the Bishop when he speaketh so indefinitely vnderstandeth all but also it is an ordinarie speach allowed in Logike in all things that be naturall or necessarie where the indefinite is counted as much as the vniuersall As to say a man is a reasonable creature or man is mortall is as much as precisely to say all men and euery man is reasonable and mortall And the saying in the next diuision he came to fulfill the lawe and the Prophetes is all one with this he came to fulfill all the lawe and all the Prophetes And likewise this giue vnto God that belongeth to God and to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar is as much to say as this giue vnto God all that belongeth to God c. and euen your selfe doe commonly speake thus indefinitely ecclesiasticall matters when ye meane all ecclesiasticall matters though now when ye be thus â—…iuen to graunt the effect of the matter yet would ye find some shift of descant to frustrate all the matter and say If ye meane of such regiment as ye preteÌ„d where ye know well ynough none other is ment ye make your reckoning without your host as a man may say and conclude before ye haue brought any proufe that they ought or may take vpon them such gouernment Whether this some regiment be such regimeÌ„t or such gouernment for thus M. St. ye loue in termes to dally though the Bishop hath proued it sufficiently and you haue graunted it standing onely like a daintie Nicie besetter on this quaint poynt in things not in all things yea whether this Nice restraint defeate the full proufe of the question in controuersie betwene master Feckenham and the Bishop shal appeare M. St. by calling them â—…ath coram to recken better with their host that is as you haue like a thriftie tapster called vpon so oft before though still ye brought in false reckonings to set before them and mark the issue that they condiscended vpon that is to weâ—…e Any such gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes Lo here the demaund of the hoste himselfe be requireth but any such gouernmeÌ„t and that without putting in all in the reckoning Where therfore ye grauÌ„t the B. hath proued it in some eccl. causes which satisfieth the demaund of any ecclesiast causes euen according to your owne wrangling ye confesse the Bishop hath concluded the very issue that was concluded vpon Thus master St. euen by your owne reckoning the B reckoned with his host at the full and hath payed and satisfied that he promised and M. Feckenham required But nowe looke you what reckoning you will make to your friendes that haue here brought your selfe so farre in the lashe that taking vpon you to impugne the Princes gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes ye haue graunted and yelded to it How will your credite holde with your friends yea how will your reckoning hold with it self here ye haue grauÌ„ted some regimeÌ„t yea supreme gouernment though not such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes In the last Chap. ye would graunt theÌ„ nothing but punishment of those whom you had condemned which is no ecclesiastical matter at all to hang or burne a man And yet ye gaue them no regiment much lesse supreme regiment therein neyther For you would haue al the appointing whoÌ„ he shal punish the prince hath nothing else to do but to execute him whom you deliuer vp vnto him which agréeth nothing with this that now ye haue grauÌ„ted least of all with that ye further grauÌ„t saying For though I graunt you all your examples ye haue alleaged and that the doings of the olde Testament were figures of the new and the saying of Esay that kings should be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that ye here alleage yet all will not reach home no not Constantine the great his example How agréeth this graunt master Stap. with all that ye haue done all this while Why haue ye denied the Bishops ensamples heretofore of Moyses Iosue Dauid c. and made such a long and earnest a do in the matter to be grauÌ„ted at length Did ye stand in it then to dilate your booke or do ye graunt it now to bragge of your skill or did ye resist the truth then contrary to your conscience repent ye now or be ye forced to grauÌ„t with some colour that ye cannot for shame in plaine speach denie howsoeuer it be many odde reckonings will fall out in your account against your selfe although you neuer â—…ecken with your host for the matter Ye graunt the saying of Esay also that Kings shoulde be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that the Bishop here alleageth yet will not all reach home no not Constantine the great his example VVill not all this reach home Master Stap. to proue the issue that euen your selfe do confesse the Bishop hath alreadie proued For that is the home that it ought tâ—… reach vnto by master Feckenhams demaund But go to measure it with a true yerde master Stap. and ye shall see it fayre and easily without any stretching at al reach euen as full home as you besides can require euen for the supreme gouernment of all maner ecclesiasticall causes looke what ye recken most vppon and that is euen the féeding with the worde vnder which the Sacraments also are comprehended not that he is the Minister of the worde and Sacraments as
Cesar then Emperour and stretch no furder If it determine nothing but money If it inferre no necessitie or dutie but only giue licence how then did these Fathers alleage vrge this sentence against these Princes and how do you alleage them against the Bishop do ye not sée how ye speake against your selfe but I forbeare you till ye come to your appointed place Although furder here I might admonish you since ye reherse here no wordes of those authours but referrâ—… yourselfe to another fitter occasion not to stande dalying in so often preuentions and rehersalls and all to no purpose but onely to encrease your volume Much lesse to triumphe therevppon till ye haue sette downe some proufe either of them or of other to confute the Bishop for els ye do but triumphe before the victorie and such commonly in the ende do lâ—…se the victorie For hitherto ye haue alleaged nothing against the Bishops allegation and yet say you This ill happe hath M. Horne euen with his first authoritie of the newe Testament extraordinarily and impertinently I can not tel how chopped in to cause the leaues and his booke and his lies to make the more muster and shewe This was an happie happe for you M. Sta. to ruffle in your Rhetorike that it happed the B. to haue so ill an hap by alleaging this sentence for hereby ye haue shewed first your truth honestie That where the Bishop citeth two plaine sentences out of the new Testament together to coÌ„firme his assertioÌ„ you say he alleageth here but one Where the Bishop citeth this of Cesar the later of the twaine you quite omitting the other say this is his first authoritie of the new Testament Good happe haue you M. St. to haue chopped in two lies so round togither to make the more muster of lies in your booke but happie man happy dole they say With the like happinesse haue ye founde out this grammar rule that Reddite is ye may giue But chiefly this happie new Diuinitie to refuse your Princes lawfull authoritie that necessarily by force of any wordes ye be not bounde to pay so much as any tribute to your Prince All these happes was it your hap first to finde out And therefore all your side haue good cause M. St. to count ye an happie man. But M. St. not content withall these happes stormeth yet against the Bishop for adioyning these wordes Admonishing not withstanding all Princes people that Cesars authoritie is not infinite or without limites for such authoritie belongeth only to the King of all Kinges but bounded and circumscribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde This M. St. calleth a foolish and a friuolous admonition without any cause or ground grounded on M. Hornes fantasticall imagination and not vpon Christ as he surmiseth Is this M. Stapl. a foolish and a friuolous admonition a groundlesse fantasticall Imagination to say that the Princes authoritie is not infinite but circuÌ„scribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde what would ye haue had the Bishop to say that it had bene infinite without any boundes such as onely belongeth to God but how would ye then haue triumphed at the matter and in déede ye had had good cause Where now ye haue none but that ye be disposed to quarel at euery thing be it neuer so well spoken Neyther was it without cause or grounde syth the wordes that immediately are ioyned so togither make an expresse limitation that the former part of the sentence is bounded with the later parte that the Prince ought to haue such due belonging to him as hindreth not the yéelding of that due that belongeth to god And therfore the Bishops admonition was not onely godly and true but grounded on Christes wordes yea and comprehendeth them also and was no lesse necessarie for the Bishop to haue vsed both for that it maketh a distinction of that supremacie that your Pope chalengeth intruding and incroching on those things that are only due to God and not suffring his authoritie to be limitted by Gods worde and woulde rule Gods worde and go beyonde the boundes thereof And also for that to the ignorant simple of your side ye slauÌ„der the B. and other setters forth of gods word yea the Quéenes maiestie her self to take on hir and we to yelde to hir such an absolute and indefinite authoritie as taketh from god from his word from his ministers that authoritie that belongeth vnto them Which syth it is your vsuall lying and malicious slaunder to sturre offence to the simple to bring the Prince and Preachers in obloquie and the authoritie in suspition and hatred it was not a friuolous fantasticall imagination as your fantasticall braine imagineth but a most necessarie cause for the B. to haue giuen that admonition to shew what authority we allow in the prince the Prince taketh on hir agréeable to that that Christ coÌ„mauÌ„ds to render Nay say you it is not grouÌ„ded vpoÌ„ christ VVho willeth that to be giuen to Caesar that is Caesars and to God that is Gods but determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Caesar but onely payment of money And yet if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded it doth not determine that neither thoughe the thing it selfe be most true Doth this M. St. determine nothing but money yea not so much as that neither whie what doth it determine then nothing say you if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded In déede M. Stap. if we considered as you haue sayde it would be a very meane determination of any thing And yet if you would better haue considered euen that you haue sayde ye shoulde haue found this your saying to haue bene sayde without your considering cappe For then ye tolde vs that thoughe it forced not that we ought to pay tribute yet it forced that we might pay it which inforceth yet somewhat more than bare nothing And euen héere present ye say that Christ determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Cesar but onely paymeÌ„t of money And by by ye say it doth not determine that neither And so ye tell vs it dothe determine nothing and yet it determines something and that something it doth determine and yet it dothe not determine it If we consider it as you haue sayde it howe would ye haue vs consider it master Stap. when your selfe so inconsiderately haue saide suche contradictions Besides this as repugnant as the rest before ye sayd his wordes imported onely that they might which is not to will a thing to be done but to permit or licence that a thing may be done or may not be done And héere ye playnly say he willeth that to be giuen to Cesar that is Cesars and to God that is Gods. But Christes willing a thing to be done is his commaundement that it be done and not a licence that may or may not
of God you translate it neither appoint any worshipping of God. As though they might not appoint that true worship of God that God hath appointed him selfe to be worshipped by Where Melancthon speaketh only of appointing other new deuised worships such as the Popish worships are Likewise speaking of the functions ye clappe in of your owne these wordes of bothe Magistrates calling the ministers magistrates whiche wordes Melancthon hath not And thus ye loue alâ—…e to tell your fale falsly And as you thus deale with Melancthon so froÌ„ him ye runne to M. Nowell and say Yea M. Nowell him selfe with a great stomacke biddeth vs shew where they denie that godly and learned Priestes might iudge according to the sinceritie of doctrine As though wheÌ„ the Prince and his successours are made supreme gouernours without any limitacion it fall not often out that the Bishop be he neuer so learned or godly shall not once be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince Ye will neuer leaue your falsehood M. Stap. wâ—… sayth that Princes made supreme gouernours without any limitation Who saith the Bishop be he neuer so godly or learned shall not once be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince Iâ—… there any that saith so or doth so except your Popâ—…e He in déed chalengeth a supreme gouernaunce without limits in as large and â—…ple 〈◊〉 as belongeth vnto christ He will suffer no doctrine but that which pleaseth him and he will be the onely chiefe Iudge thereof This is not the gouernance that we ascribe to Princes but such as is limitted by Gods worde such as stretcheth not further thaâ—… the 〈◊〉 of their dominions suche as suffreth godly and learned Priestes according to Gods worde to iudge of the synceritie of doctrine for this you confesse that master Nowell sayth and therefore ye confesse your selfe to be a 〈◊〉 lyer and to speake contrariâ—… when ye bring in thâ—… the Protestants to acknowledge a limitation and â—…t 〈◊〉 say we make a gouernement without any lymitation Neither is 〈◊〉 any contradiction in master Nowels saying to be anie more gathered than of Melancthonâ—… wordes Princes are supreme gouernours Ergo Prelates may not iudge of true doctrine Which is as wiâ—…e a sequele as the other agaynst Melancthon Ye might wel conclude it against your Pope that chalengeth such as absolute 〈◊〉 that all the iudgement of doctrine shoulde 〈◊〉 to him to iudge according as he please botâ—… quite besides and quite contrarie to Gods worde As though say you there had not bene a statute made declaring and enacting the Queenes maiestie yea hir highnesse successours without exception or limitation of godly and vngâ—…dly and yet I trowe no Bishops to be the supreme gouernour in all things and causes as well spirituall as temporall As though M. St. this were a good argument The statute declareth hir highnesse supreme gouernment â–ª without limiting it vnder the Bishops gouernment Ergo the Bishops can not iudge of true doctrine and the Princes gouernment is without all limitation As though their were no difference betwéene supreme gouernment and euery other gouernment or betwéene gouernment and iudgement And as though the statute ex 〈…〉 not it selfe what kinde of supreme gouernment is yâ—â—lded in all things and causes Ecclesiasticall nothing debarring the Bishops and ministers of their iudgement and ministerie but rather ouerséeing them to giue their iudgement and administration rightly As though you master Horne say you had not written that in both tables the Prince hath authoritie to erect â–ª and correct to farther and restraine to allow and punish the vertue and vices thereto apperteyning As though your selfe M. Stapl. had not written also and graunted the same euen right now and that not for your selfe onely but for all your followes besides to agree with Melancthon and Caluin therein Or as though say you the gouernour in all causes is not also a iudge in all causes â–ª Or as though M. St. his gouernment or iudgment were any preiudice to the gouernment or iudgement that belongeth to the Pastours office Or as though say you it were not commonly so taken and vnderstanded of a thousand in England which haue taken the othe to their great domnaâ—…ion but if they repent Or as though not rather on the contrarie it were not your so wilfull and malitious mistaking of it with a peuish obstinacie to withstande the manifest truth that refuse the othe of your dutifull obedience to your great damnation in deede but if yee repent betymes And thus still aunswering your As though with another as though ye can finde no contradiction nor absurditie neyther in Melancthon Caluin Master Nowell nor the Bishops sayings herein As though â–ª your selfe iâ—… the meane time were clere aboorde and not in euery one of your quarels either mâ—…st fonde and absurde or quite contrarie to your owne sayings and graunts made so late before The conclusion of this your second part is this You therefore master Horne â–ª which talke so confusely and generally of the Princes authoritie in both tables do yet say nothing nor proue nothing this generall and absolute authoritie in all things and causes as lustily without exception the othe expresseth and therefore ye bring indeed nothing to proue your principall purpose to the which all your proues shoulde be directed For generall and confuse talke of the princes authoritie you belie the Bishop master Stap. he made so plaine and flatte a limitation that you coulde not abide it â–ª it is your Pope that chalengeth such a general and absolute authoritie and your selfe that talke of the Princes authoritie confusely to deface Princes as confounding and intermedling â–ª in the office and authoritie pâ—…rteyning to the clergie whiche the othe requireth not further than such supreme authoritie as ouerseâ—…th careth prouideth for directeth and gouerneth all matter persons Ecclesiasticall and temporal so well in matters of the first table as in the seconde that is to say so well in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall matters as temporall Quod ad externam disciplinam Quod externoâ—… mores attinet So farre as perteynes to externall discipline and belongs to externall behauiour And this is not onely the issue in question but also as is proued compreheÌ„deth the othe and principall purpose whervpon ye call so fast to haue all the proues directed therto as the Bishop here hath done and your selfe hath graunted the same Your third part is a quarelling at the sentence of s. Paule cited by the B. Tim. 2. that kings and rulers are ordeyned of God for these two purposes that their people mighte liue a peaceable lyfe throughe their gouernment both in godlinesse and in honestie comprehending in these two wordes whatsoeuer is commaunded in the first or second table Here as ye sée hath the Bishop cited once againe another sentence oute of the new testament how fitly to the matter how
that be in authoritie no authoritie at all What a saying is this and yet sée how your selfe confute your selfe Going about to embarre their authority ye say he meÌ„â—…ioned their peaceable gouernmeÌ„t â–ª He did so in déede M. St. But what gouernment or what peaceable estate of gouernment had they if they had no authoritie at all It sée meth that while ye 〈◊〉 to saye somewhat against their authoritie ye neytâ—… oâ—… regarde nor can tell what ye say of them nor of the Apostles â—…eyther to maintayne your false quarrell Now as ye further procéede so still ye bring your selfe more in the briers But will yee knowe say you M. Hoâ—…ne why thapostles both Saint Peter and Saint Paule so earnestly taught at that time obedience to Princes Ha go to then M. St. belike they tauâ—…ht obedience to Princes more earnestly than your Popishe Prelates haue taught or pract sed since that time or than your selfe haue herâ—… taught vs not ouer earnestly but God wote full sâ—…enderly or rather by all shifts and fetches of your wits haue sought to deface and impuâ—…nt their authoritie But how agréeth this with S. Paule earnest teaching Yea â–ª howe woulde ye make Saint Paule agrée to himselfe To say that he speaketh there of no authoritie at all in Princes and yet that here he taught obedience to Princes so earnestlye What obedience taught he if he taught not their authoritie at all What earnestnesse vsed he then therein but let vs sée as ye would haue vs what was the cause of the Apostles earnestnesse This was the cause In the beginning of the Church some Christians were of this opinion that for that they were Christian men they were exempted from the lawes of the Infidell Princes and were not bounde to pay them any tribute or otherwise to obey them To represse and reforme this wrong iudgemeÌ„t of theirs the Apostles Peter and Paule by you named diligently employed themselues And was this a wrong opinion and iudgement M. Stapleton and with such earnestnesse and diligence employed of the Apostles Peter and Paule to be repressed and reformed that Christians for that they were Christian men were exempted from the lawes of the Infidell Princes and were not bound to pay them any tribute or otherwise to obey them What a right opinion and iudgement then was this of him that affirmed not only the same of Infidell Princes but of Christian Princes to that we be not bounde by force of anye wordes of Christes sentence which as â—…latly commaundeth vs as any of these the Apostles sentences doe to obey or paye so much as tribute to our Christian Princes Doe ye not knowe who this was that helde this wrong opinion M. Stapleton Well who soeuer it was I thinke be must with shame saye that of him selfe which he spake of another that eyther hee recanteth as better aduised or else writeth playne contrary to himselfe But nowe sayth M. St. for the Apostles sentences VVhose sayings can not implye your pretensed gouernment vnlesse ye will say that Nero the wicked and heathenishe Emperour was in his time the supreme head of all the Church of Christ throughout the Empire as well in causes spirituall as temporall As before M. Stapleton you captiously restrained Christes generall commaundement of obedience to Princes only to the Emperour so doe ye here againe besides that ye sticke also in the person abusing his office and let the dutie of his office go Whereas S. Paule writeth generally not only for those then present but for all kinges or any other in authoritie both then and from thenceforth for euer And so doe all the Expositours gather a generall rule for all Christians towards their christian Princes although Nero and other princes then were wicked and Heathenishe infidels Yet in the duetie of their estate to the which God had called them they ought neither to haue bene wicked nor Heathenish Infidels but godly and faithfâ—…ll defenders and setters forth of Christ his true religioÌ„ To reason therfore from such persons abuses therevpon to denie from all princes the dutie of their lawfull authoritie is as naughtie an argument as Nero himselfe was naughtie And Chrysostome flatly confuteth this cauill of the Princes person Neque enin de quouis c. For neyther I speake now sayth he of any one of the Princes but of the matter itselfe And againe Propterea non dicit non enim princeps est c. VVherefore hee sayth not there is no Prince but of God but he disputeth of the matter it selfe saying there is no power but of god The powers that are they are from God â–ª As when any wise man sayth that the woman is knit of God vnto the man he sayth no other thing thaÌ„ that God hath ordeyned mariage not that euery man how so euer he dwelleth togither with a woman is ioyned vnto him of God for we see many dwelling togither in euill not according to the lawes of mariage which yet notwithstanding we impute not vnto God. This cauillation therefore how naughtie soeuer the Prince were restraineth not the Apostles meaning which tendeth to the office and not to the person least of all to those present persons then liuing For were they neuer so wicked other were good that knew the dutie of their estate gouernment exercising it both in the direction of vertues punishment of vices as well of the first as of the seconde table this your self haue confessed to be the dutie of Princes and why had it not bene Neroes duetie to And I praye you what lacketh this of all ecclesiasticall causes the vertues and vices of the first and seconde table But ye thinke to escape with this your common exception saying And yet in temporall and ciuill matters I graunt we ought to be subiect not only to Christians but euen to infidels also being our Princes without anye exception of Apostle Euangelist Prophete Priest or Monke as ye alleage out of Chrysostome And doe you thinke thus in déede M. St. as ye saye and shall we haue any better holde of you in your graunt once again be it euen but for temporall ciuil matters And yet this fayleth much of that ye graunted before of the first as well as of the second table Be Princes the Clergies superiors now Before ye sayds that Princes should take to much vpon them to thinke themselues ecclesiasticall persons superiors speaking simply of superiours without your distinction of ciuill and temporall or spirituall and ecclesiasticall matters But sée M. St. what ye haue grauÌ„ted here It is not vnknown to you that the Pope in no case can abide no not for ciuill and temporall matters to be subiect to any Christian Prince or Emperour but contendeth euen therein also to be the farre superiour and weareth thrée crownes where the Emperour weareth but one and that one he hath set on turned off with his foote and made him kisse his foote and troad
vpon him with his foote and as his page to holde his stirrop to his foote and claimes to giue or take awaye his estate And you say here for all estates of the clergie VVe ought to be subiect not onely to Christians but euen to Infidels also being our Princes without any exception of Apostle Euangelist Prophete Priest or Monke What and is your Pope none of these Maister Stapleton an Apostle he is not without a pseudo nor he calles himselfe an Apostle but Apostolicall Much lesse he is an Euangelist and least a Prophete except a lying Prophete Sometimes in déede he hath bene a Monke but is there any Pope not a priest If he be a Priest then ought he by your owne confession to be subiect to the Emperour and in refusing this subiection what can ye make of him but as your selfe to your Prince so he to his Prince a very rebell and vsurper against his prince If ye say the Emperour is not his prince why is he then named the Emperor of Rome is not the name of an Emperor the name of the chiefest Principalitie And then if he be Emperor or king of the Romaines howe ought not the Pope being a Romaine or dwelling at Rome within this Princes kingdome or Empyre be subiect to this king or Emperour at the least as ye say in temporall and ciuill matters Doe ye thinke to escape in saying VVe ought to be subiect to our Princes without exception but he ought not I had thought ye had spoken of all Christiana and had simply mâ—…nt as Chrysostome did to whome ye referre your selfe who speaketh in generall of euery man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuerâ—… or whosoeuer thou art which wordes ye dissemble and omit So that if your Pope be of 〈◊〉 calling and he be no more a Priest than Pope Ioane 〈◊〉 he a soule be he a bodye he ought by your owne graunt to 〈◊〉 subiect to the Emperour of Rome in these matters 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 the Emperour to be subiect vnto him Whiche 〈◊〉 the Pope shall vnderstande â—…owe for his 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and for all his ciuill and temporall matters you woulde bring him to hys olde obedience 〈◊〉 the Emperour as he hath bene I thinke he will 〈◊〉 sâ—…all thanke Maister Stapleton for your labour But all this subiection saye you is but graunted in temporall and ciuill matters Doth Saint Paule Maister Stapleton alleage this distinction or Chrysostome to whoÌ„ ye reforro your selfe no M. St. they make no such restraint but stretch this obedience as to al ecclesiastical persons so principally to all ecâ—…l â–ª matters to the setting forth Gods religon â–ª And so Pauledoth call the Prince Gods minister â–ª And Chrysostome sayth Neque enim ista subiectio piâ—…tatem subuertit for neyther this subiectioÌ„ ouerturneth godynesse And vpon these words He is the minister of God a reuenger to him that doth euil He saith Againe least thou shouldst start back hearing of punishment correction and the sword he mentioneth againe that the Prince fulfilleth the lawe of God for what though the Prince himselfe know it not yet God hath so formed and ordeined it If therfore either he punish or aduance he is the minister of God maintaining vertue abolishing wickednesse euen bicause God would haue it so By what reason repugnest thou in striuing against him that bringeth such good things and goeth before thee and prepareth a way for thy affaires for many there are which at the first exercised vertue for respect of the magistrate but at the length they cleaued thervnto euen for the feare of god For things to come do not so moue the grosser sort as present things He therfore that prepareth the minds of many both with feare and honor that they may be made fitter for the worde of doctrine is worthily called the minister of God. In which words he plainly sheweth that the Princes ministery wherby he is called Gods minister consisteth in making vs fit apt receiuers of the wordâ—… of doctrine which the minister teacheth the Prince by punishing or rewarding goeth before prepareth a waye and bringeth to vs making vs apt to receyue either for feare 〈◊〉 loue this benefit by his ministâ—…rie In which work as the Apostles Preachers for the vtteraÌ„ce of the word of doctrine are called the workers togither with God so the Prince in preparing this way to the worde making vs apt to it is likewise said of Chrysostom that he worketh togither with the will of God. Wherin as we must not repâ—…gne against the prince so this obedience that we owe vnto him is not only in temporall and ciuill matters but in making vs apt for the worde of doctrine in which all eccl. matters are comprehended Now after M. St. hath thus stoode quarrelling in vain with the B. allegations he fourthly entreth into a reply vpon the B. with other allegations collected out of the same father Chrysost theroÌ„ frameth an argument against the Princes superiority In the forhed wherof he prefixeth this marginal note the Priesthode is aboue a kingdom which note as it is true in the sense that Chrysost. vnderstandeth it so maketh it nothing that he is abouâ—… him in the supreme gouernment directioÌ„ of all eccl. causes which is the present questioÌ„ the thing that M. 〈◊〉 â–ª calleth so osteÌ„ at other times vpoÌ„ But now saith M. St. As contrariwise the Prince himselfe is for ecclesiasticall spirituall causes subiect to his spiritual ruler VVhich Chrysostome himselfe of all men doth best declare Alij sunt termini c. The boundes of a Kingdome and of Priesthoode sayth Chrysostome are not all one this Kingdome passeth the other this King is not knowne by visible things neither hath his estimation for precious stones he glistreth withall or for his gay golden glistring apparel The other King hath the ordring of those worldly things the authoritie of Priesthood commeth from heauen VVhatsoeuer thou shalt binde vpon earth shall be bounde in heaueâ—… To the King those things that are here in the worlde are committed but to me celestiall things are committed VVhen I say to mee I vnderstande to a priest Andanon after he sayth Regi corpora c. The bodies are coÌ„mitted to the King the soules to the priest The King pardoneth the faultes of the bodie the Priest pardoneth the faultes of the soule The King forceth the Priest exhorteth the one by necessitie the other by giuing councel the one hath visible armour the other spirituall He warreth agaynst the barbarous I warre agaynst the deuill This principalitie is the greater and therefore the King doth put his heade vnder the Priestes handes And euery where in the olde scripture Priestes did annoynt the Kings Among all other bookes of the said Chrysostome his booke de sacerdotio is freighted with a number of like and more notable sentences for the Priestes superioritie aboue the Prince For the other sentences in Chrysostome I can not directly aunswere
that reckens without his hoste must recken twice But a Gods name as master Stapleton cryeth let vs cheerefully proceede on We are almost at an ende of this first booke of his The. 25. Diuision AS the Bishop hitherto on the wordes of Saint Pauls Rom. 13. calling the Prince Gods minister hath by the fathers Chrysostome and S. Augustine and by these Ecclesiastical historiographers Eusebius Nicephorus about these two Emperours shewed sufficiently how farre this ministerie stretcheth and wherein it chiefly consisteth so concluding this for the other testimonie of S. Paule alleaged he sheweth the endes and boundes of the Princes gouernment not onely to stretch to the conseruation of ciuill peace outwarde tranquillity but also to the maintenance and preseruing of Gods true religion To the confirmation of this sentence of the Apostle he citeth Chrysost. coÌ„cluding hereon that these two parts and notes of a princes gouernmeÌ„t are so knit togither that the one cannot be without the other therfore both are necessary to be required in a prince And that thus the auncient Christian Princes did consider of their duties he citeth out of Cyrill the testimonies of the Emperours Theodosius and Ualentinian Master Stapletons aunswere to this chiefly standeth in thrée poyntes First he querelleth with the Bishop for calling these Emperors Christian Emperours Secondly he yeldeth to the Bishope allegation of Saint Paule and Chrysostome as rather for him than against him thereto trauayleth in bringing forth ensamples Thirdely to the testimonies of Ualentinian and Theodosius he replyeth with other testimonies of the sayde Emperours All the first part is friuolous and to no effect nor aunswering the argument of the Bishops conclusion which is this All Christian princes notable and godly doings that are necessarily belonging to their office are paterns for other Princes to beholde and do their dutie to their subiects by But these and such like Princes are by the ecclesiastical writers commended for their notable doings in the maintenance and furtherance of Christian religion as doings necessarily perteyning to their office Ergo they are paterns examples and glasses for other Christian Princes to beholde and to learne thereby to do their dutie to their subiects in the maintenance and furtherance of Christian Religion To this master Stap. sayth neuer a worde but falleth a rayling on the Bishop for calling this Emperour Christian Emperour And first in his sume he sweareth by God that he he will not feare the Bishops conclusion syth the antecedent was so naught And shall we nowe M. Horne sayth he your antecedent matter beeing so naught greatly feare the consequent and conclusion ye will hereof inferre Nay pardie Well sworne master Stapleton ye can not sweare by a greater But if one of your companie would do so much for me as to remember you but with a good phillip that your foreheade smarted withall ye woulde not thus lightly take the name of God in vaine but it was done in this your beginning ex abrupto and shall we c. to shewe your bolde manhoode Shall we feare say you the Bishops conclusion his antecedent being so naught nay perdie No in no wyse M. Stapl. feare it not but stande to it euen as you did to the other that is to say take your héeles and runne quite away from it And be it naught or be it good aunswere not a worde thereto But onely wrangle aboute some bye worde or other finding play with the Reader aboute other matters and thâ—…n euen as you aunswered the antecedent so shall ye shewe your selfe constant in aunswering the conclusion For what else is all your first part where if ye feare not the Bishops consequent ye should denie it and shew some reason thereof or distinguish the same or else ye graunt it but a bare shifting off to other matters as this bicause the Bishop called the Emperour on Nicephorus his commenmendation a Christian Emperour an example a spectacle a glasse for other as one that refourmed Religion to the purenesse thereof This say you in suche a personage as yee counterfeyâ—… can not bee but a deadlye and a mortall sinne Herevppon ye snatche occasion to fling at master Foxes bóoke of Martyrs once againe about M. Doctor VVesalian of whome ye say ye spake before Here againe ye come to your former Qu like the 〈◊〉 Pharisey despising the Bishop as one that is farre from the knowledge of Bishop White and Bishop Gardiner these are Reuerend fathers with you as for the bishop nowe is a verye poore sielie Clerke and howe mete to occupie such a roume ye leaue it to others discrete and vpright iudgement There is no doubt M. Stapleton but that ye meane some discrete and vpright iudges to iudge this matter of both their learnings ye shewe your selfe so vpright betwéene them But what shall those discrete men iudge of your vprightnesse and discretion in aunswering For what is anye of these things to the purpose although setting aside this your impudent outfacing what man it was well knowen what mightie great Clerkes the better of these twaine Bishop Gardiner and Bishop VVhite were either for law or for versifying either for a Sophister or a schoolemaister And yet in these pointes were they neither in primis secundis nor in â—…ertijs As for any déepe knowledge of Diuinitie or of ecclesiastical stories which had bene fitter for a Bishop I trow Iwis it was not so great but that a meaner man than the Bishop that now is might hasarde a comparison with theÌ„ But comparisons they say are odious I speake it not to the dispraise of their learning woulde God such as it was they had emploiedit better to the glory of God the giuer and the edifying of his Church in setting forth his Gospell as they ought to haue done For this is the chiefest thing in a bishop although the other are also necessarie and as ye say among other this the knowledge of ecclesiastical stories which ye vpbraide to the bishop as a verie poore sielie clarke in them But thus much your impudencie driueth me to saye that neither of your two Reuerend Fathers haue taken a quarter of the studious trauel in this point that the B. that now is hath done and hath shewed more fruite thereof than euer they did Scripture as they saye maketh mention of all thrée let your discrete and vpright men or any other searche and iudge who lyst But wherfore in conclusion is all this adoe forsooth the Bishop on Nicephorus wordes commendeth him for a Christian Emperour and sayth he was a spectacle and glasse for others and as one that reformed religion to the purenesse thereof this can not be a venial but a deadly and mortall sinne saith M. Stapleton Whosoeuer be the discrete iudge you are no mercifull iudge M. Stapl. there is no pardon with you but present death I see well I woulde at least ye were an vpright iudge to iudge vprightly of the matter Ye haue condemned
facit hypocritam For the sinnes of the people God maketh the hypocrite to reigne â–ª So that nothing is impossible Our sinnes are such as may deserue or Gods trial may be suche as he may proue vs with affliction vnder a Turke or heretike or any other tyrant or vsurper But what is all this to the purpose Shal not lawfull and godlie Christian Princes as Gods blessed name be praysed therefore he hath so blessed Englande presently with suche a moste happie Princesse for all his moste gracious and rare gifts shyning in hir that we maye iustly saye Non talâ—…er fecâ—… omni nationi he hath doone the lyke in our dayes to no christian nation I speak it not to flatter hir or to blemish any other estate but to glorifie God for hir to confirme vs iâ—… our allegiance and to confounde your disobedience to hiâ—… highnesse shal not I say such Godly princes vnite maâ—… sure to them and their heires all such lawfull authoritie as belongeth vnto their estate bicause it may be abused by other Princes hereafter If ye saye it is not their lawfull authoritie nor belongeth vnto them of ryghte That woulde beproued fyrst Maister Stapleton for otherwyse thys youre presupposall toucheth as well their authoritie ouer temporall matters as ouer spirituall If the one may be vnited bycause it is ryghte why maye not the other béeyng ryghte alsâ—… be lykewyse vnited withoute thys vayne castyng beyonde the Mâ—…Wue to let goe a certentie of present righte for feare of an vncertayne daunger of some inconuenience to come And yet if any suche chauÌ„ce should come ye should alwaies consider a difference betwéene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie betwéene his duetie and hys doing whether he be Turke Iewe Heretike Heathen or whatsoeuer he be or whatsoeuer he do he oughte to be a faithfull Christian Prince and he ought to do nothing but that a christian Prince may lawfully do Neither do any godly lawes giue the Prince that nowe is or euer shall be any other authoritie than lawfull authoritie And as for this clause of the statute euen your selfe do confesse that it giueth none other superioritie to be vnited to the crowne of the Prince whatsoeuer the Prince be or shall be or may be but to do that that is lawfull and that that he oughte to do For the words which ye cite are these That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised for the visitation of persons ecclesiasticall And correcting all maner of errours heresies and offences shall be foreuer vnited to the Crowne of the Realme of Englande These wordes ye sée vnite no other authoritie but suche as may lawfully be exercised and so lawfully it vniteth to the Crowne the correction of errours heresies and offences not the maintenaunce of errours heresies and offences Nowe if ye thinke the Turke would thus do ye thinke better of him than I can conceiue and make me to thinke worsse of you than I thought If ye thinke the Turke as is moste likely would not do these things that the statute yéeldeth to the Prince that is to say he would vsurpe that superioritie that may not be lawfully â–ª exercised he woulde mainteine errours heresies and offences he would set out the Alcaron and worship of Mahomet and suppresse and beate downe the Testament and worship of Iesu Christ thâ—… the statute toucheth him not nor he the statute noâ—… any othe is héere required and your inconuenient presupposall is put foorth in vayne For the statute yéeldeth not all correction simply but correction of errours heresies and off ences that he exercise it lawfully which the Turke will not do nor can do béeing an opeÌ„ enimie to Christes true religioÌ„ And therfore where ye say on this clause of the statute wherin is implied that if a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer should come to the Crowne of Englande by vertue of this statute and of the othe all maner superioritie in visiting and correcting eccl. persons in all maner matters shoulde be vnited vnto him This is your excéeding falshod to the truthe and too much iniurie to the statute and playne trechery to the crowne to say that the statute implieth this doing of the Turke or this swearing and beleeuing so in him For the statute implieth nothing but that belongeth to a very christian Prince The statute implyeth no suche absolute superioritie of correcting ecclesiastical persons in al maner matters This is to borrowe a worde of your owne rhethorike too too Turkishly and spitefully put in of you to make it appeare â—… great inconuenience Where the wordes that ye cite of the statute speake of correcting all maner of errours heresies and offences And is there no differeÌ„ce trow you betwéene the correcting of all maner of errours heresies and offences the correcting al maner matters The one no maÌ„ wil denie to be godly to punish the euil The other is so large in deede that if a Turk or an heretike had the doing therof he might punish vertues in stéede of vices truth in place of falshood and say that he punished some maner matters except truth and vertue be no matter with you as it appeareth by this your presuppesall and your false implying on the statute that ye make it no great matter either what become of Gods true religion or of the Crowne of Englande It séemeth ye care not greatle whether a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer had the Crowne of Englande or the Crowne of any other Realme so that your Pope might kéepe his triple Crowne and you the dignitie of your shauen Crowne Which to mainteine in honor what daunger heretofore ye haue brought the Realme in other can tell and Englande hath felt the popish practises to bring this Realme in bondage the crowne therof to strangers And on condition that this clause of superioritie were annexed not to the Prince but to the pope M. St. could like it wel and would spende to haue it so the best peny in his pouch Although a more perilous enimie to Christ and Christes church than is the pope is neither Turke or any other heretike or arch-heretike whatsoeuer that would not care if the moâ—…t royal crowne of Englande and most christian Realme were on a fishpoole bicause it hath reiected his superioritie and to shew his good will thertâ—… he hath abandoned it with his great curse to any that will come Christian Heathen Turke Iewe heretike or whatsoeuer he be that will either destroy it or reduce it to his captiuitie farre more dangerous to the soule than is the Grecians bodily slauery to the Turke But all this M. Stap. will vtterly denie that there were any suche boâ—…dage if that this clause were vnited to the Popes triple Crowne Go to M. St. were this also graunted you will not your owne deuised inconuenience as well come to passe the pope hauing it for euâ—…r vnited vnto him as if the
and that he confutes it neither can we iustlye gather anye argumente of a former authoritie from a former placing of the persons or theyr names whiche maye nowe and then bée placed the beste in the laste place or the best in the middle place so well as in the firste place and yet kepe a good and decent order And if Maister Saunders may reason thus in hys defence for placing the Priest laste why will not hys owne answere confute hys owne argument that here hée maketh of the Priest named in the firste place These argumentes now being thus weake and childishe to inferre any necessarie consequeÌ„ce of superior authoritie M. Saunders laboureth to strengthen theÌ„ with the authorities of witnesses Althoughe before hande in so playne a matter what néede witnesses or what coulde all the witnesses in the worlde doe to make these good consequences not that wée contemne these witnesses nor yet altogether denye the matter as wée haue diuers tymes affyrmed that the high Priestes office then and all the Priestes vnder hym and that all the Bishoppes and Ministers nowe in respecte of theyr diuine Ministerie of the worde and Sacramentes are to bée preferred as hauyng in dignitie a moste highe office before all other persons and so their office maye well bée placed before the Princes office But this as it nothing hindreth â–ª in other respectes a superior office of the Prince ouer them so to enforce the dignitie of the Priestes office by these bâ—…lde reasons is rather to blemishe it and bring it in contempte But let vs sée Maister Saunders testimonies VVherevpon Philo that of these matters as one that was a Iewe was of necessitie moste cunning it was fit sayth he that the Prince bee preferred before the priuate man yea euen in the Sacrifice as likewise the people before the Prince syth the whole is greater than parte thereof But the Bishop to bee made equall to the people in taking awaye and obtayning pardon of sinnes But this honour is counted to the Bishop not for hym selfe but bicause he is the Minister of the people making the vowes and prayers publikly to be performed in the name of all the nation â–ª The firste witnesse here is Philo Iudeus of whome I sée no necessitie Maister Saunders that he shoulde bée moste cunning in these matters neyther thinke I that he was most cunning in them althoughe that he were a Iewe and a notable learned man And yet herein exception might be made against him being rather a well liker of our Christian Religion than a professor of it or one that sheweth to haue anye great cunning in it Writing so manye bookes little or nothing of our Christian fayth saue in his booke de vita theoretica where he commendes it and calleth it Diuinam Philosophiam diuine Philosophie and saythe among other commendations of the Christians as thoughe himselfe were none habent autem etiam disputationes quasdam et interpretationes veterum viro rum qui et authores ipsius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 extiterunt But they haue also certaine dsiputations and interpretations of auncient men who were also the authours of that heresie or secte whereby Philo writing on this wise of the ChristiaÌ„s howe euer he fauoured them I thinke hée was not the cunningest in our Religion Neither doe you ascribe that vnto hym but saye he was most cunning in these matters meaning these Iewish Sacrifices But and he were not cunning in the faith of Christ he could not haue verie muche cunning in those sacrifices that were all referred to Christ. But was not that cunning that he had too muche driuing all the mysteries in gods word to Cabalistical Platonical numbers and figures to allegoricall and morall senses being himself so great a Platoniâ—…e that it grewe to a prouerbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 either Plato imitateth Philo or Philo imitateth Plato so that in cunning allegoriâ—… he was cunning and yet not so cunning as Origen who likeneth herein the priest to the sense of godlynesse and Religion and the Prince vnto the force of reason But into what errors he ran by these conceits is manifest although he were a farre more cunning Christian than it should appeare that euer Philo was I speake not this in their dispraise or altogether to reiecte their allegories which may be admitted so farre forth as they be sober and godly and not contrarie to the plaine texte although they differ from the simple meaning of it But althoughe they may delight and edisie they proue nothing of necessitie therefore are not to be brought in controuersies whosoeuâ—…r the authors be the writers of the holy Scripture onely excepted But let vs admit Philoes allegorie what are you Maister Saunders therby eueÌ„ one whit the nerer of your purpose if not the furder from it the Prince is here affirmed to be inferior to all the people Howbeit not simply inferior but as he is a parte of the whole and a particular member of the body politike if ye stretch this so generally that he hath not againe a superiour power not onely ouer euery other part but also ouer all the parts ye may quickly make a madde politike body â–ª If ye loke but of your owne example of a natural body so often cited do ye not say the head rules all the body and what say you by your owne head maister Saunders it séemeth by the heade strong opinion of these your reasons that it rules all your bodye to muche oute of square Although it be but one part of you yet hath it the supreme gouernement of all your partes So that this makes nothing againste the Princes superioritie But now what maketh it for the superioritie of the B. or rather maketh it it not inferior withall marreth al your first booke against the authoritie of the people Philo sayth not that the B. is aboue the people but the B. is made equall to the people as who should say of himself being but a man he is not equall but inferior but is made equall to theÌ„ being made a Prince Now if the Prince haue a supreme gouernment of all the people for al that he is but a man and a particular member being a parte vnder the whole as likewise is the B. and so vnder the people to yet as this man is aboue all the people in regarde that he is made a Prince so is he aboue the B. to that also of a priuate man is made a B. whereby as Philo saythe he is made but equall to the people whereas the Prince is made aboue the people How answere ye herein to Philo Maister Saunders Howbeit say you that he saith the B may be made equall to the people this in deede is to bee vnderstoode to haue so come to passe in the thing offred for both offred a Bullocke Why M. Saunders and did ye not before in your Bullockishe reason make the thing offred to be an
viewe what either partie brought to offering The Priest brings vitulum a calfe or yong bullocke the king brings taurum a bull I praye ye nowe which of these twaine haue brought the weaker and lesse worthie beast is a calfe in your iudgement stronger than a bull or a bull weaker than a calfe surely then ye haue a weake iudgement If ye say a bull is not so muche worthe as a calfe althoughe then our butchers woulde rather bye bulles of you than calues yet woulde they deme you but for a calfe in so selling them and for so telling them So that by this rule the king bringing to offering the stronger and more worthie beast should be of greater authoritie than the Priest yea the priuate man also shoulde bée of greater authoritie than the high priest For a cowe althoughe it be not so strong as a bull yet is she stronger than a calfe and féedes the calfe and is the calues damme If ye say this is a grosse reasoning for diuine matters it is so in déede Maister Saunders and I am ashamed suche reasons shoulde be vsed but are they not your owne And doe ye not as grossely apply Christs parable of a shepherd and his shéepe truely I knowe not your person Maister Saunders whether ye be such another forepined ghost as Bishop Boner was or no that reasoning of the mysteries of the Lordes supper compared the sacrament to a good fat Capon But these your reasons for your Popes superioritie of a bull and a bullocke of a cow and a calfe of a strong stalfed and iustie beast of a leane and weake vnworthie beast of the first the second and the third place are not onely more grosse and homely stuffe than Bishop Boners Capon but a great deale more fonde reason than was his Yet will not Maister Saunders giue ouer this reason thus but alledgeth more authors for it Theodoretus and Procopius saying But Theodoretus vpon the same matter vseth these words He teacheth how great the dignitie of the Priesthode is which he maketh equall to the people But the Prince that shall haue transgressed any lawe he commaundeth him to offer not a calfe but an he goate or a goate of a yeare olde so farre off is he from the Priestly dignitie to whom the bodily gouernment is coÌ„mitted Last of all Procopius Gazeus on the same place writeth thus Herevpon we may gather â–ª that the Priest is more honorable than the Prince yea the people to shine in greater dignitie than the Prince VVherfore in the olde time certayne Kings adorned themselues with the Priestly dignitie If therfore the Prince be as wel inferior to the people as to the Priest as he that after eyther of them is reckoned vp in the laste place and offers the weake and lesse worthye beast howe can he be esteemed the head of the Church immediatly vnder Christ who hath as well the Christian people as the Byshoppes Christes Ministers betweene him and Christ How this superioritie eyther of all the Churche or of the Ministers of Christ may well consist and yet hinder not the supremacie of the Prince beyng in other respectes both ouer the Ministers and the people is diuers tymes before declared and therefore néedlesse to bée repeated excepte we should followe this vayne of Maister Saunders in repeating so often one thing and that so meane an argument that he might rather be ashamed once to haue penned than thus with these fathers sclender senteÌ„ces to haue bolsterâ—… it And yet he caÌ„ not driue it to his purpose for still the priest is made but equall at the moste vnto the people for which M. Saunders shooke of Philo before as a Iew and no Christian and here he citeth Christians yet make they no better for him than Philo did But sith the people are again vnder the prince and the Priest at the most is but equall to the people thow so euer his ministration be the more honorable yet it argueth that he is vnder the Princes supreme gouernment so well as are the people And therefore for all these argumentes nothing yet is brought to the contrarie out of the olde testament that the Bishops notwithstanding al the excellencie of their diuine ministerie were not still vnder the supreme gouernement of their Princes Let vs now sée and ye haue any better argument Besides this without al contradiction the Apostle saith That which is lesse is blessed of the better But Aaron stretching out his hand to the people blessed the people therfore Aaron was greater then the people This argumente M. Saunders is yet more handsome and truer than you other grosse and wrested argument was Neither denie we anye partes or the conclusion of it For first it concludeth nothing with or against the Prince but against the people Secondly it is altogether drawne from the action of the ministers functioÌ„ which we confesse belongeth not to the Prince But to conclude simply a superioritie in the person thervpon were a presumptuous conclusion both against S. Paules meaning and against God himselfe to make our selues better thaÌ„ god bicause we blesse him For we saye to God Benedicimus tibi we blesse thee we praise c. O all ye workes of the Lord blesse ye the lord c. Ye muste make therfore your distinction of blessing and shew in what solemne action and signification the high priest blessed them This done we grauÌ„t you that the high priest was therin the better whiche nothing hindreth the Princes supreme gouernement But now M. Saunders hauing espied where a king likewise blesseth the people hath a shift also for this saying But if thou saist Salomon blessed the Synagog of Israel and therfore was greater than the synagog Salomon was greater than the synagog without al contradictioÌ„ for the scripture can not be broken that saith the lesser is blessed of the better But Salomon sustayned a dubble personage the one of a king the other of a Prophete But as he was a Prophet he was the more notable minister of Christ than for his kingly dignitie and by this reason was greater than they to whom he prophecied and so he blessed the people not by his royall but by his propheticall office But the priests not by an other office but by the priestly office blessed both all the people and much more the king that is inferior to all the people Here first let vs note that M. SauÌ„ders himselfe twise placeth the king and his office before the prophet his office Salomon saith he sustained a duble personage the one of a king the other of a prophete and againe he saith and so he blessed the people not by the kingly office but by the propheticall office If then his former reason be good the king is to be preferred before the Prophet But now to his answere to the obiection of SalomoÌ„ which is in déede but a very shift and the commoÌ„ shift of M. Harding DormaÌ„
estate being higher and so high that God reserued it to himselfe they distrusted the former estate as inferior and desired a visible king among them So that this which you wold draw to the dispraise maketh in deede more to the praise of a kings estate Neither do we denie Gregories sentence in respect of the spirituall prelacie but the question nowe is of the outwarde gouernment of Priests or Princes Which Gregorie not onely acknowledged with most humble obedience calling the Emperour and kings of Italy his Lords soueraignes and lowly bowed himselfe vnto them but also that more is so much detested the claime that the Pope makes now that he calleth the vser of it a fore runner of Antichrist And where ye haue this shift that he condemnes such titles of vniuersal Prelacie in the sea of other Bishoppes but not of his owne this is a false shifte he condemnes it in hys owne Bishopricke of Rome so well as in anye other For where Eulogius the Patriarke of Alexandria had saluted him with suche stiles he answereth Ecce in praefatione c. Beholde in the preface of the Epistle the which you directed vnto me who forbad it ye thought to set in the word of a proud calling naming me vniuersall Pope the which I beseeche you that your most curteous holinesse wil no more do so Bicause that which is giueÌ„ to another more thaÌ„ reaâ—…oÌ„ requireth is subtracted from your selues I seeke not to be aduaunced in titles but in maners Neither counte I that honour wherein I know my brethren leese their honour For my honour is the honour of the vniuersall Churche My honour is the sounde force of my brethren TheÌ„ am I honored wheÌ„ to euery particular person the honor that is due vnto him is not denyed For if your holynesse call me vniuersall Pope he denyeth himselfe to be in that he calleth me vniuersall but God forbid this Let those wordes goe that puffe vp truth and wounde charitie Thus sayth Gregorie and this is cited euen in your owne decrées not onely about the word Vniuersall Pope but vpon these titles Princeps SacerdotuÌ„ vel summus sacerdos the chief of the priests or the chiefe or high priest or any other such titles So farre was this Pope Gregorie then from the pride of the late Pope Gregories that haue bene since for he both acknowledged himselfe to be but equall to other Bishoppes and him selfe and all other Byshops to be vnder their naturall Princes The testimonie therefore of Pope Gregorie is but wrested to vrge suche superioritie of Byshoppes as shoulde deâ—… their Princes supreme gouernmente Now M. Saunders hauing thus as he thinketh fully confyrmed his proues for the superioritie of Priests in the olde Testamente abouâ—… Kings gathereth altogether and knites vp hys conclusion saying VVherefore sithe the institution of Priests proceeded from the good wyll of God and from his free mercie but God graunted not the dignitie of a king but in his anger at the peoples petition lesser consideration is worthily had of the king than of the people both bicause he is made king onely for the peoples cause and also onely at the peoples petition But the Priests although they be made for the peoples cause yet neither onely for the peoples cause but muche more for the honour of Christe Neither onelye at the petition of the people were they made but rather of the free mercie of God and that for that eternall predestination of God whiche was ordayned aboute oure saluation in the tyme appoynted to be brought to effect Ye make your comparison and your conclusion hang illâ—…oredly together Maister Saunders your comparison is of the Princes and the Priests estate and ye conclude that therefore lesse consideration is worthily to be had of the king than of the people How chaunce ye say not of the king than of the Priests but belike ye thoughte that that was oute of controuersie the Priests were so farre aboue the people that much lesse consideration is to be had of the people than of the priests But maister Saunders your beast sacrificed said not so nor your authors Philo and Iosephus but sayde he was made equall to the people But say you the king was made for the peoples cause I graunt ye maister Saunders and was not the priest so too yea doe not your selfe sayâ—… he was made for the peoples cause also if this then argue an inferiorship as in déede it doth in respecte of the ende doth it not argue the priest to be inferior too and lesser consideration to be had of him than of the people that is to say of the Church of God But saye you the King vvas made onely for the peoples cause and the priest was made for the honor of Christ also for the eternall predestination of God vvhich vvas ordained about saluation in time appoynted to be broughte to effect And I pray ye Maister Saunders was not this another cause of making the King also dyd not his estate make to the honour of Christe and represent Christ so well as the Priestes estate was not he called Christus Domini The Lordes annoynted so well as the Priest yea and better to then by your leaue For Christ was not onely figured in the kings estate so well as in the Priests but also toke his humanitie of the race of the kings and not of the Priests and so is called the sonne of Dauid not the sonne of Aaron the king of the Ievves not the priest of the Ievves And though in respect of his priesthoode he was the onely sacrifice of our redemption whereby our sinnes are taken away Christus mortuus est pro peccatis nostris Christ dyed for our sinnes yet notwithstanding resurrexit pro iustificatione nostra he rose for ouâ—…â—…ustification by his kingdome by his power by his victorie by his resurrection by his ascention by his sitting at the right hand of his father in al which his kingdome is contained so that it comprehendeth both our PredestinatioÌ„ and our saluation too And therefore we are taught by Christ to saye let thy kingdome come and not let thy priesthoode come And not onely all our estate in this life and the life to come but all the grace and mercie and iustice and power and glory of God is attributed not so muche to the priesthoode as to the kingdome of Christ. But ye saye God was angrie with the peoples request when he made the kings estate I graunt you Maister Saunders and tolde ye the reason before out of Lyra and the texte is plaine bicause God him selfe was king vnto them which doth not abase but so much the more aduaunce it But now when Maister Saunders hath thus extolled the Priests gouernmeÌ„t of the old TestameÌ„t he abaseth theÌ„ again by comparison of Bishops of the newe Testament saying Sith therefore the Bishops of the Churche of Christ are of no lesse dignitie than
beareth not in vayne or by some other bodily punishment may correct him if any man shall refuse to obey the Priestes sentence Therefore we denie not but that bothe before and about and after the Bishoply iudgement there are some partes of kinges but in the office of iudging kings can do more than can priuate men For either of them can bothe giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good but neither of them can define what the diuine or eccl. lawe declareth in that matter VVhiche thing thus declared let vs nowe come to the proofe of the matter it selfe All this then either néedeth none or little answere M. Saunders béeing barely anouched without any proofe to the whiche ye are not yet come but onely declare what ye will denie or graunt to Princes Your graunt we take and sée ye go not from it But will all your fellowes yea wyll your Pope him selfe graunt so muche that the Emperour shall by his authoritie appoynt the certayne place and day where and when the Bishops shal holde their Councels It was wont to be so in the olde time But will your Pope suffer this nowe and that kinges shall do the lyke in their kingdomes Nay M. Sauâ—…ders he will mislike of this and say ye graunt too large a thong of another mans leather howesoeuer you would by qualification eate your grauntâ—… agayne cleane contrarying your selfe ascribing no more to Princes than to priuate men And yet agayn you graunt that bothe of them may giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good in ecclesiasticall matters although they can not determine them Goe to master Saunders till you bring your proofes we will take this graunte also of your liberalitie that Princes may giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good A good manie of your side will not graunt so muche nor you but for a countenaunce sake neither Althoughe yée doe them open iniurie to compare them qualle beeing publique estates to priuate menne As for your determination of Gods law what you meane thereby when yée shewe your meaning playner we will aunswere to it Nowe to your proofes Master Saunders proofes in this Chapter kéepe this order first he alleageth the reasons for his partie Secondly he aunswereth oure obiections Hys firste reason is this Those things that are of God man can not dispose them otherwyse than if God gyue vnto them suche authoritie â–ª but the causes of faythe chiefly of all other are of GOD bycause faythe is the moste necessarie gyfte of GOD that no man can obtayne to him selfe by any force either of nature or arte the causes therefore of fayth can not be iudged of other than of them to whome God hath giuen that power I aunswere the partes of thys argument be true 〈◊〉 the conclusion noughte for there is more in the conclusion than in the premisses â–ª The conclusion shoulde haue 〈◊〉 Therefore 〈◊〉 can not dispose the causes of fayth otherwyse than if God giue them suche authoritie Howebeit we simply denie not M. Saunders conclusion but would haue him distinguish what he meanes by iudgeing 〈◊〉 he meane disposing causes of fayth otherwise than God hath already in his word disposed them or else his argumente hathe no sense nor sequele then the conclusion as it is not proued so is it apparant false Neyther giue we suche iudgement to Princes or to any other creature for suche power God hath giuen to none Althoughe the Popishe priestes falsly clayme suche power to dispose matters of fayth otherwyse than God disposed them But master 〈◊〉 will proue hys conclusion on thiâ—… wyse But God hath giuen suche power to certayne men and not at large to all Christian people Therefore none haue it but they The antecedent he proues from Saincte Paule Ephesians the fourth For God hathe ordeyned some Apostles other Prophets other Euangelistes other Pastors and Teachers to the ediâ—…ying of his mysticall body whiche is the Churche But other hee made as it were sheepe and lambes that they shoulde bee edifyed by their pastors and teachers and too whome their pastors shoulde attende that they should not be caried awaye with euerie blaste of doctrine by the subtiltie of man. I answere agayne as before If he meane by iudgeing â—…eaching with sounde iudgement it is true and this senâ—…ence well applyed but if he meane as his principall â—…roposition was whereon all dependes Disposing thinâ—…es of faythe otherwise Then wée denie the anteceâ—…ente and the conâ—…equence too As for thys sentence â—…roues no suche iudgement giuen to any of these persons but rather confutes it as not to edifie but to destroy and to be caried away by the subtiltie of men with euery blast of doctrine if men might dispose otherwise of fayth than God him selfe hath dispoâ—…ed Nowe vpon this sentence of S. Paule for Pastors be reasoneth thus But Pastors only iudge what is fit or not fit for the sheepe For to conclude that sheepe are indued with equal power to Pastors this were nothing else but to take away the differeÌ„ce that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe and the thinges that he hath distinguyshed to mingle and confounde them Kinges therefore and Magistrates if they be counted sheepe in the floâ—…ke of Christ as in deede sheepe they are iudge not togither with the Pastors The argument is thus made formall Pastors do onely iudge what is fit or not fit for the sheepe But Princes are not Pastors but sheepe of the flocke of Christ. Ergo Princes do not iudge what is fit or not fit for them The maior he proueth thus To conclude that the sheepe haue equall power with Pastors is nothing else but to mingle and confounde and take away the difference that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe But if Princes should iudge the sheepe should haue equall power Ergo For Princes to iudge were to mingle confound and take away the difference that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe First to the maior I answere he siftes the similitude of a shepherde and shéepe too narrowe For although in some resemblaunces it holde yet is it not simply true that the Pastor onely iudgeth what is fitte or not fitte for this kinde of sheepe He him selfe confesseth before and after agayne confesseth that the priuate man or Princes may giue counsell and priuate iudgement And S. Paule speaking not of the pastor but of the spiritual man that is of the sheepe of God sayth Spiritualis omnia iudicat the spiritual man iudgeth all thinges And Christe biddes the people beware of false prophets which can not be without iudgement Neyther is this sufficient proofe of the maior that he alleageth to contende that the sheepe hath equal power is to confounde Christes distinction Wée graunte this it were so But this wée denie that héereby the sheepe is made to haue equall power For the iudgement of the pastor is one thing
as ye sayde before disposing otherwyse than Christ hath done your Priestes do so but they ought not to do so The Prince can not do it nor he dothe it nor claymes to doe it nor it is ascribed vnto him Yea thoughe you meane by disposing no alteration yet is this an harde phrase to say that Princes or priestes either dispose of the Churche of Christe but rather dispose of matters in the Church of Christ. And this as the Priest may doe in his vocation so may the Prince in his estate Which though it be not expressed by name but comprehended in the newe Testament yet is it euen by name expressed in the olde Testament in diuers places of the disposing of Church matters by Moyses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias c. And since your selfe confesse the one gouernment is a figure of the other And that the gouernment before Christ he neither brake it nor diminished it it followeth that theÌ„ he left it entire and confirmed it And therfore although the Princes disposing of Churche matters be not by name expressed yet is it by your reasoÌ„ necessarilie comprehended and so you answere your selfe Now after he hath thus as he supposeth debarred Princes from all warrant oute of the law of God and the newe Testament he examineth the other lawes saying Except therefore by the lawe of nature the law of nations or the lawe ciuill such power be permitted too the king it is cleare that he hath no power at all ouer these things But certaine it is that those lawes cannot giue to the king any power ouer things that are not subiect to those lawes For no law can establishe ought either of other things or persons or actions than those things that fall vnder the compasse of it But Ecclesiasticall matters do infinitly excede the power of the lawe of Nature of nations and the ciuill For of these three the law of nature is the first and greatest But neither that sith it begaÌ„ in the earth can decree ought vpon the mysteries of Christe which draw their originall from heauen onely For that I may speake nothing of the force of nature being yet entire truely after that the nature of all mankynd by the sinne of Adam was corrupted and death entring by one man passed into al it can not be that from that infected originall any good thing shoulde come forth For an ill tree can not bring forth good fruites neither doth the fleshely man such as we all be by nature perceiue those things that are of the spirite of God. All this labor is a néede not M. Saunders to run for confirmation of a Christian doctrine from the law of God to the lawe of nature and the lawe of man we vse not so to doe Neither desire we anye doctrine to be admitted that is not proued by the lawe of God reuealed in his worde vnto vs it is you the Papists that stand on such proues and grounds not we Howbeit you do iniurie to the law of nature to measure it altogether by the corruption of our nature For howsoeuer we be degenerate from it the law of nature remaineth in it selfe both good and perfect and is called likewise the law of God. Neither can I thinke that euery ecclesiasticall thing as ecclesiasticall things are commonly vnderstoode is infinitely aboue the power of the law of nature By which reason many petit matters would be farre aboue great principles Yea many great Ecclesiasticall matters doe fall within the compasse of the lawe of nature It is true that you say of the corruption of our nature that by the fall of Adam sin hath infected the Masse of all mankinde Death by one man hath entred into all men No goodnesse can come of such a corrupted originall An ill tree can not bring forth good fruite and that the fleshely man perceiueth not the things that are of the spirit of God. All this is true but is it not as much against a Priest as a Prince for the Priest in that he is a man is borne in sinne and dyeth by death the reward of sinne nor caÌ„ bring forth any good fruites nor perceiue the things of the spirit of God. And the prince in that he is a ChristiaÌ„ is washed from his sinne The sting of death hath no power ouer him but is a passage to eternall life He is regenerate by a newe originall from aboue He is a good tree and bringeth good fruits and is become a spirituall man perceiuing and working the things that are of the spirite of God and that perchaunce a great deale better than many a good Priest and without all doubt farre more spirituall than any Popishe priest And therefore that ye speake of the corruption of nature is nothing to the purpose excepte it be to confute your errors of pura naturalia fréewill preparatiue workes c. But Maister Saunders drist is this that onely the Priests are spirituall men and so may onely Iudge of spiritual things and Princes are but naturall fleshely and sinnefull men and so can giue no Iudgement of spirituall matters But howe vntrue this is how presumptuous on his partie and iniurions to all Christian Princes and how contrary to his owne selfe that faith else where Christian Princes are spirituall I thinke anye that haue but meane Iudgement may easily Iudge it But Maister Saunders procéedeth saying But to Iudge of Ecclesiasticall matters is no small good thyng but one of the chiefest that Christe hath gyuen vnto his Church bycause he hath gyuen the power of feeding of losyng and bynding to his Apostles that is to the chiefest Magistrates of hys Churche euen as the greatest gifte VVhich gifte they coulde neuer well exercise but wyth Iudgement eyther goyng before or goyng with it For he that shall binde nothing but that that shoulde be bounde and shall lose nothing but that that shoulde be losed must of necessitie before hande deliberate and decree that this is to bee bounde and that is to bee losed But to decree suche a thing to bee done or not to be done in Christian Religion this is euen that that we call to Iudge in matters of Faith. Syth therfore a power so heauenly and notable can not spring oute of the beginnings of our corrupte nature it followeth that it commeth onely of the free mercie of god But that mercie of God is made manifest vnder the time of the new Testament partlye by the lawe written partly not written but neyther waye anye povver is gyuen to Kyngs in Ecclesiasticall causes This argumeÌ„t M. SauÌ„ders is like the hopping of a reuÌ„d that from the law of the new Testament went about to infirme it by the lawe of nature and so fetching a circumquaque commeth in again with this conclusion that it is not by the law of the newe Testament So that where we thought we had procéeded â—…urder wée are nowe where wée were before But to let goe the
I tell thée plaine thou shalt pay for him then I cry you mercy sir quoth the poore maÌ„ I should haue said your bull hath goared my cowe tushe quoth the rich maÌ„ the case is altered that it is another matter And so I perceiue M. SauÌ„ders it is with you when the Priest is said to haue any authoritie in the olde Testament marke that say you that maketh for vs and why so bicause the olde Testament is a figure of the new the gouernement ye marke it was for the priest but the gouernment must not alter the states must be a like and all this geare But now sir it is proued the kings gouernement was aboue the priests Is it so say you that is another maner of matter tush theÌ„ the case is altered If this came to passe in the olde Testament yet no reason shoulde compell that the same should be so in the new Testament fith the reason of the ecclesiasticall gouernement is changed But as the prouerbe sayth the case is altered but the matter is where it was What a mockerie is this in so waightie and plaine a matter But let vs heare your reasons Maister Saunders Nor without cause say you for the Synagog of the Iewes although it coÌ„tained in it som true Israelits iust meÌ„ yet both it was was called a earthly rather thaÌ„ a heueÌ„ly kingdoÌ„e in so much that Augustine doubteth whether in the olde Testament the kingdome of heauen be euer named or no much lesse that it is promised for rewarde For those things that were done did signifie in dede diuine things and so the lawe it selfe was also spirituall but the things themselues were not in themselues so diuine as our things are in so much that the Apostle teacheth that the glorie of the Synagoge was no glory at all in respect of the excellente glorye of that Ministerie whiche nowe is exercised in the Church by the Ministers of the newe Testament not in the letter but in the spirite Therfore sith the people of God consisteth of a bodie and a soule or spirite the carnall part obtained the principalitie in the olde people and was ordained to signifie spirituall things VVhervpoÌ„ as mount Synai the kindled fire the whirlewind the darknesse the storme and sounde of the trumpet and voyce of the words was onely of the earth and carnall so nowe all things are spirituall and internall There raigned the seruile feare of God and the bodily sworde but here is moste deare loue and the spirituall sworde they abuse therfore the holy Scriptures that for those things that were done of the Kings in the olde Testamente thinke now also that the kingdome of heauen which is the Church should be subiect to earthly kings This answere why the gouernement is changed is a depressing of their estate in comparisoÌ„ of ours that theirs was more earthly ours more spirituall which as in part we denie not yet repute not theirs so grossely as here he makes it yet is this comparison plainely wrested to inferre alteration of gouernement thervpon from the Princes ouer the Priests then to the Priests ouer the Princes nowe For this alteration maketh the olde not to prefigure the newe but to destroy it as no comparison but a cleane contrarietie But the true comparison being such as the one estate prefigured the other the excellencie is in the difference of this aboue that retaining still the same estate of gouernment so that if those godly Princes did so well order their gouernement in those causes that in comparison were but earthly and not so deuine as ours then muche more shoulde our Christian Princes order their gouernment better in much more excellent ecclesiasticall matters And thus both the figure and the comparison holdeth But M. Saunders turneth all as though the King and the Prieste were compared togither that the kings gouernement was but earthly then and the priestes gouernement now is spiritual Wheras the coÌ„parison is of the things gouerned and not of the gouernors And yet to compare those with these gouernors those earthly Princes were not so litle spirituall then but these spirituall Priestes are ten times more earthly grosse and carnall nowe What S. Augustine douteth I remember not but we without doubting know now that the kingdome of heauen was promised then to them so well as nowe to vs and they without doubting hoped for it and vndoubtedly did receiue it and do enioy it The comparison of glorie that Saint Paule maketh that theirs was nothing to ours is true But he speaketh not thereof comparing visible glories the one with the other such as the ministerie of the Popishe Church settes for the it selfe withall For in such outwarde glorie the olde Lawe passed the new the Pharisies passed Christe the Heatheus passed the Christians both in the Apostles time and long while after till the glorious ministerie of the Pope hath far excelled them all The examples of the glorie and terror in Mount Synai of the seruile feare of the bodily sword are iumbled togither disorderly and are compared to spirituall resemblances or contraries in the Gospell But as they take not away the Christian Magistrates bodily sword nor glorie so meddle they not with alteration of Princes gouernement ouer Ministers in causes ecclesiasticall therefore are méere impertinent But if all these shiftes will not serue then saith M. Saunders sée the inconueniences Othervvise if the state of the olde kings shall be drawne to the time of the newe Testament shall not the state of the Byshops of the Leuiticall tribe by the same reason be drawne to our time also lette there be therefore one tribe appointed to the outwarde Priesthoode let there be one Temple in the world let there be but one Byshop and let bloud sacrifices be restored But if thou confesâ—…est these things are made voyde wherefore grauntest thou not also that those things are voide that kings haue done about diuine matters â–ª are only the doings of kings eternal nor could they be changed so farre as pertained to the disposing of holy things What could or what could not be done M. Saunders we stande not vpon but what is or what is not done is the question And that the state of the ciuill gouernement is not altered your selâ—… haue often graunted that the gouernment still was one that the one was a figure of the other that Christe toke not away nor diminished the Princes authoritie As for the Leuiticall Law of the Priests the scripture is plaine in many places that it is cleane dissolued you cannot therefore make these alike except you wil become a iewe And so it seemeth by this your wicked reason you had rather renounce the Priesthoode sacrifice of Christe bring in againe the priesthoode sacrifice of the olde law than you woulde giue Princes authoritie ouer Priestes in the newe lawe But now that M. Sanders hath thus answered the
Christ should place ouer them a limme of the Deuil Verily Iouianus vvhen after the death of Iulianus he was saluted Augustus and Caesar I can not quoth he sithe I am a Christian gouerne the armie of Iulian that is infected with the precepts of the pestiferous doctrine TheÌ„ the souldiors answered that they wer not straÌ„gers from the Christian religion But if there ought to be so great a likenesse coherencie betwene the head the members that a christian Emperor wold gouerne no souldiors but christians how much more vnequal vncomly is it that the Christian souldiors of their owne voluntarie should call vnto gouernment an heathen or heretical man For what is this else but to cast themselues in danger of losing their faith Al this againe we graunt you M. sand so long as you restrain your self to voluntarie election And sée that in al your proues examples you kepe your selfe thereto for else you straggle froÌ„ your own demauÌ„des But how many Princes in Christendome haue you that be chosen in that sort of so frâ—… voluntarie choice as you speake of or not rather their kingdomes belong vnto them by claime of right succession or otherwise And shall these be debarred the right of their enheritance for pretence of religion Well goe to then what if we say such such a Prince is a papist a mainteiner of false religion differing froÌ„ Gods truth our profession therefore we wil not haue him to be our king although by law he haue good title to it yea be in reall possession of it Wil you allowe this our refusall M. sand I trowe you wil not If you wil not then you breake this your own rule that you would so faine haue graunted to you Notwithstanding where free election is tâ—… be had ther your rule is most true Let Protestants there choose Protestants Papistes there choâ—…se Papists hardyly so the one shal the lesse encomber the other But where men can not do as they would there they must do as they may so nere as theyâ—…aÌ„ choose whom they think fittest But if it lie not in them thus voluÌ„tarily to chose they must take their lot perchance of the worsse praye to God to amend that is amisse receiue their duetiful Prince with good loyal hearts yea though he be an enimie to the Gospel beséeching God to conuert him or to mollifie him to becoÌ„me enclinable at the least to be no persecuter of the truth so praying for his successe in goodnesse obey him in truth dissent from him in â—…ull but rebel against him in nothing coÌ„mit the rest to God that sente him And this me thinketh is a better rule of the twaine than that he hauing right should wrongfully be refused The example that you bring of Iouianus is not alike Who refused the gouernmeÌ„t ouer Iulianus souldiors For there is a difference betwéene Princes refusing to be gouernors and the peoples refusing to be subiectes If you can shâ—…we that the Christian souldiors of Iulianus as this Iouianus one of Iulians chiefest Captaines and the Christian souldiors vnder his band renounced their obedience to Iulâ—…an or woulde not goe to warre against the Persians and fight vnder his conduct but reuolt from him bycause hee was reuolted from God then you shoulde shew something to the purpose But this you can not shew yea we can shewe the â—…t contrarie that so long as Iulian raigned Iouian woulde neuer rebell nor forsake his obedience althoughe his Prince were an Apostata and renied the faithe of Christe If you replye that Iouian â—…id forsake his souldiorship in Iulians time True it is that â—…eing a Captaine â—…uer a thousande when Iulian made a lâ—…w for Souldiors that either they shoulde sacrifice or for sake their Souldiorship Iouian chose rather to lâ—…se his girdle which was the ornan â—…nt of his knighthoode than to obey the wicked prâ—…cepts of the Emperor Howbeit herein â—…e renouÌ„ced not his obedience to his Princes estate but rather expressed his obedience in obeying the penaltie of his lawe And when the Emperour for necessitie of the warre chose him againe he refused not to become againe his soulviour Your example therefore of Iouian maketh cleane against your purpose This one petition being thus demaunded whiche we graunt vnto you in frée elections although you aske but one demaunde yet nowe on this you will encroch an other and set downe the figure of 2. in your margine as a seconde demaunde saying But the lavve of God vvhich commaundeth none should be placed ouer Christians but a Christian the same lavve commaundeth that none other should of Catholike people be receiued to the gouernement of a kingdome but a Catholike For he that is a Catholike althoughe in vvorde he call himselfe notvvithstanding he hath lefte of to be a liuely meÌ„ber of the Church of Christ. You aske but one petition M. Saunders and we haue graunted it but will you therevpon aske more nay then it is time to stop you You spake before of a Christian and now you demaunde the same of a Catholike What do you mean hereby do you make a difference betwéene a Christian and a Catholike But howe chaunce you saye not as you sayde before a Papist For I thinke by Catholike you meane a Papist but this we haue gramited you alreadie Lette a Papist in free election if he will needes chose a Papist Qui â—…descit sordescat adhuc He that is filthie let him be filthie stil and let a Turke choose a Tuâ—…ke sithe he will choose no better Yet then let a Protestant choose a Protestant by your own rule But that he that is no Catholike that is to saye as you expounde it no Papist is no liuely member of the Church of Christ This is an other question M. Saunders and you desired to propounde but one and will you now haue so many You sayde it shoulde appeare vvith hovve great equitie you woulde defende your cause and will you nowe offer â—…o greate iniurie to so many Christian Princes bothe in the East Church in the Weast in the South and in the North that are no such Cathoâ—…kes that is to say no Papistes and therefore be no liuely members of Christes Church Nay M. Saunders this must not be graunted there is no equitie in it excepte you be able to proue it For you knowe that the title of Catholike is not onely called in question whether it belong to you or no but also in your sense thereof for a Papist it is so sore battered that it will rather fal out that the Catholike is no liuely member of Christes Church thaÌ„ that the Protestante or Gospeller as you call vs is none But let vs sée howe you procéede VVhiche thinges sithe they are thus this is moreouer to be added Although that any vvhen he vvas first made king was a Christian and a Catholike if
notvvithstanding aftervvarde he become an Apostata or an Heretike good reason requireth that he shoulde be remoued from the administration of a kingdome among the Catholike people They saye the Deuill M. Saunders if we giue him an inche will take an ell and so playe you You demaunde one thing and woulde take a number yea and snatch at all If you were not impudent you would not still encroch Firste you desired that you might propounde one thing of greate equitie and you woulde make all plaine that Princes mighte be deposed This one thing is graunted Then you desire a seconde thing for this second clap downe two togither That the same lavve shoulde be also for the Catholikes that vvas for the Christians This also is graunted to the whiche you adde that he that is no Catholike is no liuely member of the Church of Christ. And although this in the true sense of Catholike is likewise granted yet in your sense of a Catholike it is starke false and denyed Then you adde your figure of 3. and say moreouer this must be added that a Christian king being become an Apostata or an heretike shoulde be deposed And this you will haue graunted you also and al vnder the name of one thing and this that you adde laste of all is in déede the thing it selfe that you should proue But you worke a wise waye first demaunde it maye be grauÌ„ted you and then promise that you wil proue it What M. Sanders haue you gone to Rome to learne that knacke that the Proctour taught his client in the chancellors court who when a Maiden in sute of contract came to him for couÌ„sell he being before hande féed on the otherpartis graunte quoth be to her thou madest him such a promisse but aske him who is his witnesse Nowe when the simple Mayden was thus enstructed I graunt quothe she to the Iudge I made him such a promisse but who is his witnesse And eueÌ„ thus woulde you dodge vs M. Saunders The question is whether a Prince erring in fayth shoulde be deposed We denie it You will proue it but on this condition that we wil graunt you this that he should be deposed and then you will proue it that he should be deposed But and if we will graunt you this you may easily proue it or rather you néed not proue it at all for we do proue it for you Either Maister Saunders you thinke â–ª great follie in vs or this is greate follie in you to make such propositions to proue the matter that are the matter it selfe This is beyonde the fallation called petitio principij it is petitio totius the request not of a principle but of altogither There is no equitie at all in these proues for all the great equitie that you promised Not that the Apostacie or heresie of the king shoulde be bolstered or allowed but earnestly improued and rebuked if it be Apostacie and heresie indéede and not as you call heresie and Apostacie the forsaking of your heresies and receiuing the Gospell of Christe But in this your case of Apostacie howe euer the Prince be worthie to be deposed the deposition lyeth not in any subiect or any foreyne but in God that placed that Prince and in suche meanes as he séeth good to chastice suche Apostataes withall eyther of the whole bodie of the Realme or otherwise but those are extraordinarie cases there can be no ordinarie rule of all Princes deposition as you woulde here haue graunted excepte the state of the Princes be thereafter as it is in some Countries of which sort ours is not And therefore to coyne such rules for vs although our Prince God be praysed be not in this case of heresie and Apostacie saue in your malicious and erroneous conceyte is euen the Trumpet and warning piece to your trayterous confederates to pull downe the Prince and sette vp all Rebellion And a means to kéepe all Princes at the becke of the Priestes for feare they charge them with Apostacie and heresie and so straight wayes depose them But what reason haue you for this hampering of them For say you a faithfull Prince and a godly is a matter of such momeÌ„t that neither an vnfaithful should be placed ouer the faithfull neither an Apostata shoulde remaine the Prince of the faithfull What ought to be how it ought to be brought about to be are two things M. Saunders â–ª A Prince ought to be faithfull and Godly and so to be is as you say a matter of great moment Neither ought an vnfaithfull Prince to be voluntarily placed of the faithfull ouer theÌ„ Neither ought a Prince to be a renegate neither ought such a renegate Prince in the demerite of his facte to remaine a Prince ouer the faithfull But howesoeuer these things ought or ought not to be in him that the Byshops ought depose him that God hath set vp that the faithfull people ought to renounce their allegeance and rebell againste him that God hath placed ouer them they haue orderly sworne their homage vnto him I think M. sand you can not proue that these things ought to be Neither are these cases alike that you â—…umble togither of an vnfaithful man not to be chosen Prince and of a faithful man being chosen Prince by the faithful bicause he becoÌ„mes vnfaithful â–ª not to be obeyed For in the one case the faithful are free froÌ„ the vnfaithful if they are bound it is not to him but rather to kéepe them fre from him In the other case the faithfull haue bounde themselues before hande to the king that was faithfull who afterwarde becommeth vnfaithfull Whiche bonde if it were conditionall and the Prince of his own voluntarie so bounde expressely to them and they interchangeablie bound of their voluntaries expresly to renounce him becomming vnfaithfull Then I thinke they might so it were with one consent of those that chose him refuse him with better reason But where as it is commonly the Prince being a faithfull hath his claime by some kinde of right whome the people electe without such indenting on good hope of continuance in his faithfulnesse or rather being moued with his right yelde â–ª him obedience and binde themselues by othe to become his subiectes there althoughe their soules and consciences be still free to God in religion yet are their bodies their goods yea and their consciences to in respect of his estate and their duties so firmely bounde to remaine loyall and faithfull to the Princes authoritie that though he become vnfaithfull in the faith of his religion yet may not they become vnfaithfull in the faythe of their allegeance The Fable of Esopes â—…orse when he straue with the Hart can tell you that there was a difference in the horsses estate before he gaue the maÌ„ an enterest to ride vpon him and after that the man had bridled and sadled him and was set on his
accorde appeale and come to them as before whome to pleade sithe they haue them selues a better power giuen them heereto of God. Thus by the iudgement of your owne side this place serueth nothing for refusing the obedience of Princes although they were Infidels Apostataes or Heretikes as thankes be giuen to God the protestant Princes are not agaynst whome ye shoote these trayterous bookes but are true christians faithful christian Princes As for the other sentence maketh lesse to your purpose â–ª For he speaketh not there of princes but of false teachers â–ª as for princes by S. Paules doctrine â–ª aforesayde wiâ—… whome S. Iohn agréeth they should bothe be saluted worshipped and prayed for that God would spéede and prâ—… per them in their gouernementes And this as ye say iâ—… more then to salute them But sithe we are bounde to 〈◊〉 the greater to vse your owne reason muche lesse may 〈◊〉 debarre the lesser from them and not so muche as say 〈◊〉 speeds them or giue them â—…nce God morrowe Which as â–ª is besides all ciuilitie that you say Christ taketh not awaâ—… so were it wilfully to prouoke the Princes indignation â–ª Abimelech was but an Heathen prince and yet Abraâ—… dwelte with him made a league with him and gaue him a present and toke a present of him Pharao was an heathen Prince and yet Ioseph behaued himselfe most reuerently vnto him and became a moste faithfull stewarde ouer his countrey Ahasuerus was a heathen Prince and yet both Mardocheus honored him and preserued his life from traiters and Hester was maried vnto him Benadad the king of Syria was an heathen Prince and yet Naaman his captaine after he was clensed from his leprie and was become a faithfull beleuer in God forsoke not his obedience to his heatheÌ„ Prince and where he moued a scruple of suffring his Idolatrous Prince to leane vpoÌ„ him the Prophet had him depart in peace he had him not reuolt froÌ„ his Princes obedience Darius was an heathen Prince yet Daniel sayde vnto him O king God saue thy life for euer Agrippa was an heathen Prince and yet S. Paule both saluted him and wished him euen as himselfe except his bondes This therfore is not to be stretched vnto Princes but to be takeÌ„ as it is spoken against false teachers as both the text is plaine euen the Popish writers to so vnderstand it althoughe they misvnderstand who the false teachers be But who they be S. Ihon describeth by this note Euery one that goeth from abideth not in the doctrin of Christ hath not god He that abideth in the doctrine he hath the father and the sonne if any come vnto you bring not this doctrine receiue him not into the house neither say God spede vnto him For â—…e that saith God spede communicateth with his euill workes But this is apparant that the Papists haue made the doctrine of Christ insufficient and brought in other doctrine besides the scripture of God they therfore are these false teachers that S. Iohn so straightly forbiddeth vs to communicate withall If then God spede may not be saide vnto the false teachers that is to say we may not approue their doctrine nor be familiar with them theÌ„ must the Popish teachers companie be auoided that are here so plain described And it were to be wished â–ª this were some what more straightly loked vnto thaÌ„ it is â–ª God graunt that bearing to much with Papists bearing theÌ„ company yea and bearing theÌ„ out also do not only spice vs with their false doctrin he that toucheth pitch saith the wise maÌ„ shal be defiled with it make vs partakers of their euill workes but also prouoke the heauie wrath of God vpon vs make the Papists whom we beare so much withall become the very cutters of our throates For I tell you their faith will serue them they haue a ruled case for it Nulla sides teneÌ„da haereticis no faith must be kept with heretiks as they accouÌ„t vs to be But I learned once this rule in mine Accidence â—…oelix quem faciunt aliena pericula cautuÌ„ Happie is he whoÌ„ other mens harms do make to beware Let vs not thinke but they can loke as faire thinke as foule in England as in Fraunce deale as horribly if as God forbid they could get their oportunitie Which to compasse the sooner this good teacher M. Saunders setteth forth this doctrine to sturre the people to rebel depose their soueraigne hereto wresteth these places of the scripture to make them seme to serue his purpose where both being better considered make cleane against it Howbeit thinking he hath fully proued it The matter saith he is nowe brought to this point that an hereticall king must be remoued from his kingdome that he obteyneth ouer Christians But how he hath brought the matter to this point with what proues not worth a point I doubt not but euery reader wil easilie sée nor any subiect be moued to remoue his naturall Prince for any thing yet alleaged yea although as he surmiseth his Prince were in déede an heretike But M. Saund. presupposing that he hath cléerely proued the Prince must nedes be deposed will now proue that the deposing of him belongeth to the Bishop And bicause saith he the crime for the which he must be remoued is coÌ„mitted against the faith a little before it is abundantly proued that those causes shuld not be iudged of the people which is gouerned like sheepe but of the pastors whose dutie is to discerne betwen the cleane vncleane and whose lippes do therfore kepe knowledge that the people should require the lawe of the Lorde out of their mouth verily it belongeth chiefely to the Bishops both to pronounce euen the king himself an heretike or otherwise an Apostata also to declare that his subiects froÌ„ thence forth are free froÌ„ giuing all obedience vnto him that they ought to endeuor themselues that another out of hand be chosen in his roome Like lippes like lettyse they say Euen a fit sentence for so fit Bishops to pronounce Finde you me this in the law of the Lord M. Saunders that the priests should kepe this know ledge and yet better kepe it than vtter it to make the Proclamation of rebellion Is this the law the people must fetch from the priests mouth well this lawe made some of them be hanged at Durham not long ago as all such lawlesse and rebell Priests deserue No M. Saunders ye finde not this fraiteroâ—…s office appointed to the Priests in gods lawe Out of their mouth in deede the law of God must procéede their lippes must kepe it they must discerne betwene the cleane and vncleane Although this be but here spokeÌ„ Metaphorically for that was a bodily cleanneste vncleannesse discerning who was a Leper who was none But stretch it hardily to the
of teÌ„poral kingâ—… None is so simple to moue such a fond obiectioÌ„ But the obiection is whether the one be coincident to the other Whether a Bishop to whoÌ„ properly by his Bishoply office 〈◊〉 kingdome belongeth not may take vpon him the gouernment of a kingdome that properly by his kingly office beloÌ„geth to a king This iâ—… the question And you say properly he can not I say muche 〈◊〉 vnproperly But properly or vnproperly Christ hath cleaâ—… debarred it Vos autem non 〈◊〉 But you shall not do so These words strike dead master Sand â–ª therfore your vnproper distinctioÌ„ may go pike him But say you when they subiected them to the Christian fayth the kings promised no longer to raygne the people promised to obey no power further than the christian fayth wil suffer therefore if the kings power or the peoples obedience swarue from this promise â–ª the king may be deposed and the people can choose no otherâ—… â—…ll good promises so 〈◊〉 as we may are to be kept inâ—…iolate master Saunders especially the promise made to Christ to kéepe his fayth and religion incorrupted And would to God all men did kéepe it chiefly the Popishe Byshops that haue in so many poyntes swarued from the fayth and corrupted Christes religion yet haue made their promise to keepe it so well as others And if they shoulde be deposed for breaking their promise your Pope should be deposed first to begin withal and all his Prelates Priestes should followe And althoughe it were to be wyshed they were in déede all deposed and those onely that repent them admitted and reformed to the true ministerie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet can not the like be wished for in Princes that they likewise breaking their promises shoulde be deposed by their Bishops For althoughe we haue in Gods worde an euident example for the Prince to depose the Bishoppe vpon his demerites as Salomon deposed Abiathar yet haue we not the like example for the Bishop to depose the Prince For in the authoritie of deposing the Prince is higher than the Bishop Although it is not to be wished the Princes should attempt without great and euident proofe to depose any As for the Bishop to take vpon him to depose his Prince béeing his sworne subiecte is bothe agaynst his owne fayth and homageâ—… and further than his authoritie reacheth The Bishops and Priests had great iniurie offred them of king Saule yet they neuer cursed him nor attempted to depose him No Dauid although he were him selfe also the Lords anoynted would neuer oppugne Saule or rebel agaynst him but only stode at his defence and when he had Saule in his daunger he would neither kill him nor take him nor depose him but let him go and committed his quarell to the Lorde bicause Saule was not onely likewise the Lordes annoynted but then in lawfull possession of the crowne And therefoâ—…e Dauid woulde neuer take it from him althoughe he had good title to it Muche lesse may the Bishops that haue no title to it attempte to pull downe their Prince They may yea they oughte to exhorte their Prince hauing broken his promise and rebukâ—… him and lay before him the terrible threates of God they may pray for him â–ª but they can not lay handes vpon him nor curse him nor reuile him nor take armes agaynst him nor inâ—…ite other to rebellion to forsake him and to set vpon him beeing their Liege and Soueraigne I am not ignoraunt that Princes haue bene deposed of their subiects in diuers couÌ„treys and diuers times in Englande And the like casualtie may chaunce in euery age and kingdome vnto princes But for those things by what title they were done God knoweth I will not descant nowe but this I affirme in generall that in respect of the people those things were more defâ—…cto than de â—…ure â–ª although in respecte of Gods iustice or of the Princes chastisement that â—…ad deserued before God so muche and more it was de â—…ure too But the subiects can neuer iustifie such deedes to be done howe euer they be borne out when they be done nor such extraordinary deedes past may be drawne to ordinarie examples of deedes to come but be spectacles for princes in beholding suche tragedies past to learne for the present to â—…umble them selues and to leuell their life to come the better And althâ—…gh many of these deposings of princes haue â—…ot come so 〈◊〉 by the vâ—…ce of their vnnatural subiects as by the practises of the Popish bishops as the ensamples of king Iohn in Englande of Childerike in Fraunce the Henries and other in Germanie and in other countreys do testifie yet were these dealings of thâ—…se Bishops not allowable but detestable yeâ—… though it were graunted that those princeâ—… haâ—… deserued them brokeÌ„ their faith and promise â–ª Which if it were a good faith promise was no doubt an euill breacâ—…e of it anâ—… God will take the vengeance of it it belongeth not is the people nor to the Bishops Vengeance is mine sayth God and I will render it He sayth not my Bishops shall but I will render it Yea but saytâ—… M. 〈◊〉 the Prince himselfe hathe made a promise to raigne no longer than the fayth and religion of Christ alloweth I aunswere if he maâ—… this prâ—…yse it is a good promyse and he is bouâ—… in conscience to stand therâ—… But what if â—…e wickedly breake his promise shall the Bishope rebell â–ª and breake their promise too is there no remedie but 〈◊〉 pellere to driue out one mischiefe with another â–ª Nay saith S. Paule â–ª Non faciamus malum vt inde eueniatbâ—…nuÌ„ Let vs not do euill that good may come of iâ—… â–ª Let vs notâ—…bell against the Prince that the Prince may be reformed Quorum damnatio iusta est If the Bishops do so they heape Iâ—…st damnation vpoÌ„ themselues Were the Prince in déede such a one as the Bishops pretend if it be not rather their malicious pretence as God hath giuen them no such violent meanes to reforme him which were to make him rather worse than better and to bring all in a broyle and themselues besides their sin in daunger â–ª so God hath giuen theÌ„ another meane if they could see it of preaching his word vnto the Prince which is another maner of sword and more fitte for them to fight withall than to pull the temporall sworde oute of the Princes hands In dede so did Cardinall Columne when the Pope said he woulde pull of his Cardinals hatte he soul the Pope word if he pulled off his Cardinals hatto he would put on a helmet and pull downe his triple Crowne These Prelates haue little skill of the spirituall swâ—…rde although they crake of it and of S. Petâ—…rs keyes but they neither know how to vse them nor what they be that thinke they consist in deposing Princes and fighting against them But M.
intreaties rather thaÌ„ with terrors The condition pleaseth a publike calling forth of the people is made by the Kings coÌ„maundement to whom the King maketh an oratioÌ„ persuadeth the people to receiue the faith of Christ moueth them to submit their neckes to Christ the priest reioyceth that the King not yet baptized is becoÌ„e an Apostle of his owne natioÌ„ so the King is baptised What condition is here made by the Bishoppe vnto the King of giuing ouer his realme deposing himselfe which might haue done more hart thaÌ„ good In what couâ—…nant did the people here binde themselues to looâ—…e the libertiâ—… of chosing their King or promise to forsake their King if their King forsake the faith here was no such bondage â—…red â—…ther to the King by the Bishop and the King thought good to offer none such to the people but with gentle persuasions to allâ—…re them So that these presupposals of these Bishops speaches vnto these Princes are vtterly false and forged onely to driue in the readers heads a surmise of seme suche conditionall admission to the Christian faith in these elde Princes dayes whiche was nothing so nor so And yet by these colourable presupposals he enforceth his matter with a question aying Can the Bishop to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of Baptisme and giue the sacrament of thanksgiuing Why M. SauÌ„ders here was no such condition moued yet Remigius gaue Clodoneus the sacrament of Baptisme â–ª In deede the sacrament of that kâ—…giuing he gaue not then vnto hym neyther was it necessarie till he were instructed in the mysterie of it And therefore this is as fondly added in this case to the Sacrament of Baptisme as your case of Baptisme is craftily and malicioâ—…sly deuised to bring Princes in bondage vnto Bishoppes But this King thoughe he and his people submitted their neckes to Christe yet did he not thus submit himselfe and his people to the Bishoppe The long promiseth to 〈◊〉 one God but not to 〈◊〉 eyther the Bishop of Remes or the Bishop of Rome â–ª These knackes and conditions of bondage for Princes to promise and â—…weare obedience to the Pope and to his Bishops yea to sweare to depose themselues and become pâ—…uate men if they forscke this consâ—…rained obedience is of later times as the Popes power and tirannie hath growne and hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Christian Princes great huâ—…lie but lâ—…s in manye Christian kingdomes But yet it neuer went thus for as it now should do â–ª if M. Saunders might haue hie minde for it was neuer vrged in their Christâ—…dome before This pasieth the slauerie of the Spanish InquisitioÌ„ that no Prince nor people shuld be christened except they swere to these exceptioÌ„s In the olde time when the Prophetes anoynted kinges they tolde them of the blessings of God to come vpon them and their posteritie to sitte in their seate after them and that God woulde buylde them an house to continue if they serued him and walked faythfully in his wayes And if they should do the contrarie howe God woulde rende the kingdome from them and giue it to another Of suche promises and threates that the Prophetes tolde the kinges we reade and of the promises that the kinges made agayne to God we reade but that any Prophet compounded with the king before that he shoulde renounce his kingdome or that any king tooke either their circumcision or their kingdome on suche condition or that the king reuolting from his promise either voluntarily or by compulsion deposed him selfe or was deposed of the Bishop Priest or Prophet of God these thinges yâ—… can not shewe vs but these thinges ye shoulde shewe vs if ye will make good your sayings and directly proue your purpose You tell vs heere a tale of a tubbe in the name of these kinges Bishops that they neuer dyd nor I thinke dyd euer thinke of any such deuises But go too let vs nowe presuppose with M. Saunders euen as he imagineth A King would be baptised The Bishop sayth VVe are glad most deare sonne that thou desirest to be made a citizen of the kingdome of heauen but this thou oughtest to knowe for certayntie that the case is not like in the kingdome of heauen as it is in the worlde for in the Churche thou muste liue so that thou make captine thy vnderstanding to the obedience of fayth But thou how greater thou art in the worlde mayest so muche the more hurte the Churche of God if thou shalte abuse the righte of thy sworde to the defence of heretikes contrarie to the Catholike fayth No otherwise therefore thou mayest haue entrie into the Churche than if thou shalt promise that thou wilte persist in that fayth and defende that Churche with all thy force which beeing receiued from the Apostles is continued by the successioÌ„ of Bishops vntil this day dispersed through out all the world But if it shall chaunce thou doest otherwise thou shalt not refuse but shalte go from the right of thy kingdome and promise to leade a priuate life M. Saunders nowe presupposeth that the king hearing the Bishop thus beginne to indent with him will beginne his answere to the Bishop thus I am ready to acknowledge the Christian fayth Why M. sand is not this inough if the Bishop séeke something else besides the acknowledging of the Christian fayth Surely he neither séeketh the glory of God nor the Princes saluation nor the encrease of Christendome but his owne sucre authoritie Well the Bishop will haue him graunt to all the residue of his conditions or else he will not baptise him Heere agayne he presupposeth the king to say further But I neither promise that I will with my sworde defende the Catholike fayth neither will I for whatsoeuer I shall do giue ouer the right of my kingdome Ye tel the kings tale parcially M. San â–ª you should make it flatly to denie that whiche the Bishop exacted of him to do Which was to promise to defend not the faith but that faith that Church c. Which the king denieth to make promise vnto the Bishop on suche condition Yea saith M. sand saucely steppeth in for the B. can the B. to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of baptisme c. And why not M. San. if the bishop be not worse affected him selfe than this man is for you graunt your selfe that he is wel affected towards the christiaÌ„ faith would acknowledge it which is al one with defending it And if the bishop be not content with this promise hath not the king good cause to suspect him he telleth him of bondes conditions to be made to renounce the right of his kingdome if he perâ—…e not in that faith with al his force if he defeÌ„d not that church that was receiued from the Apostles continued by successioÌ„ of B. till this day and iâ—… dispersed throughout all the world May not here the king
the sonnes of strangers shall build vp thy walles Kings shall serue thee And to this he addeth the other sentence in the same Chap. And the sonnes of them that afflicted thee shall come to thee humbly and shall bowe themselues euen to the plantes of thy feete eueÌ„ all they that dispised thee and call thee the citie of the Lorde Sion of the holy Israell Had you set the sentence downe thus farre you had marred al Maister Saunders â–ª For then you had bewrayed your wresting of this vnto the Bishops And had you set downe all the chapter you had shewed suche inconueniences in vnderstanding this glory of the Church and seruice of Princes in the literall sense and after a worldly fashion that you must néedes haue confessed all these things to haue other spirituall meanings Which the Iewes not marking in these and such like prophecies of the kingdome of the Messias and the glory of Sion but taking the same in the bare sense of the words as you doe were so sotted on a worldly glory kingdome that they quite dispised the pouertie of Christ and to this day dispise it looking for a Messias that as they sansie shall raigne in al worldly pompe and subdue all kingdomes and people to him and therefore they scrape vp money so fast to helpe him And so you Papists in these prophecies of the kingdom of Christ and the glory of his Church haue as grosse vnderstanding as the Iewes and dispising the simplicitie of the Gospell nor beholdyng the spirituall ornamentes of the spouse of Christ thinke the worship of God lyeth in suche outwarde glory And hearing of obedience seruice of Kings to Christ and to his Church thinke it consistes in this that Kings muste sweare to you to renounce their kingdomes and holde them of the Pope and be obedient to him and he his Prelats must florishe in all worldly pompe and ryches Is not this the Iewes error vp and downe howbeit in oppressing of Kings you are worse than the Iewes and in seâ—…ing 〈◊〉 honor here verie CerinthiaÌ„s and shall neuer haue it else where excepte you forsake your errors Your third sentence Luk. 10. he that dispiseth you dispiseth me as it maketh nothing for you being nothing suche as those were whoÌ„ Christ did sende so being vnderstood of those that are in deede sent of Christe is nothing to this purpose We graunt that no godly ministers ought to be dispised And if they be Christ their sender is dispised But as they ought not in their calling to be dispised of the Prince so no more ought the Prince to be dispised of them much lesse to be troden vnder their féete and their kingdomes to be taken from them as your Popes haue vsed them and you woulde haue theÌ„ here be spoiled Wherby it appéereth that you are not such as Christ doth sende but are of Sathans sending to bréede contempts seditioÌ„s treasons against Princes to maintain your pride and carnall pleasures of whome Saint Iude did prophecie that defiling your fleshe you despise authoritie râ—…yle on the Maiestie of your Soueraignes Your fourth sentence Mat. 16. of Christ saying to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I build my Churche and the gates of hell shall not preuaile againste it is altogether besides the matter It is your chiefe place wrested for your Popes vsurpatioÌ„ but I sée not how it is brought in here against the Princes authoritie except you will make a kings estate to be the gates of hell But as the Princes estate is the ordinaunce of God so I rather thinke the attempte to depose the Prince to be if not the gates of hell â–ª yet one of the readiest wayes to hell as we haue example of Core Dathan and Abiron that went not by the gate nor by the posterne but were swallowed vp and toombled in quicke to hell And although the rebellious Papists go not downe that wayes yet shall they be sure to come to hell and I thinke rebellion be one of the broadest gates that hell hath for Papists on a plompe to enter Nowe that M. Samders hath as he thinketh with thesâ—… texts confirmed the Bishops refusall of Baptising the king he will admitte the Bishop will Baptise him and see what inconuenience shall ensue For saith he if the Bishop will baptise him whom he heareth by name saying that he will not submit his Diademe to Christ or that is all one he not will make his kingdom subiect to the ministers of Christ euen in the cause of faith where is that obedience of faith which the Apostles were sent to procure in all nations is it meete that he which denounceth that he will not want his empire for no fault at all should notwithstanding be armed with the name of a Christian and with the sacramentes of Christ to lay the greater ambushments against his Church for who doubteth that there is greater daunger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enemie Surely M. Saunders I am of your opinioÌ„ in this last senteÌ„ce Out of doubt there is greater dauÌ„ger of the domesticall than of the foraigne enimie We sée the apparaÌ„t experience in your Pope that is so much the more perilous enimie to the ChristiaÌ„ faith as he preteÌ„deth to be the Uicar of Christ the seruant of the seruaÌ„ts of God a father of fathers in Christes Church for so his name Papa signifieth is in dede a robber of Christs glory a hider of Christs Gospell a setter vp of his owne decrees a spoyler of all kings and kingdomes a begniler of the people vnder a shew of holinesse an Angel of darknesse shyning like an Angell of light a rauening wolfe in a shéepes clothing a child of perdition himself and pretending to saue other from perdition the man of sin calling himself a god There is greater dauÌ„ger of such a puppet of the deuill thus disguised like a God than is of the heathen thaÌ„ is of the Iewes than is of Mahomet than is of the greate Turke than is of the Deuill hymselfe And the like greater daunger is of all dissemblyng Papistes in the Courtes and Realmes of protestant Princes than is of open Papists apparant enemies I beseech God they may be loked vnto remoued froÌ„ such places that there may be lesse danger of theÌ„ As for this Prince and Byshop that M. Saunders maketh his presupposals vpon there is farre greater daunger to the Church of God in this Byshop than in this Prince For first the Prince not of compulsion but of his owne voluntarie not of crafte or malice or any other sinister affection but of good hearte and méere deuotion for so king Lucius and Clodoueus did commeth to the Byshop to be baptized and humbly offereth to acknowledge the faithe of Christe What danger is here towarde the Church of Christ by this good Princes offer or not rather gret benefite to the Church
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the
than God permitteth but also by force and agaynst the consent of bothe the parties seuered those that God hathe ioyned and ioyned those that God hath forbidden to be ioyned Dothe not the Pope maynteine the greatest vsuries that be to wit the Iewes to pill and poll the Christians and al for his own lucre besides his most filthy and vnlawfull gayne by fornication Doth not the Pope by the abuse of the sword keyes that he saith he carrieth carrie away the Christian citizens into most greeuous sinnes yea and say he may carrie away with him at the world to the diuel no maÌ„ must be so hardie as to say sir why do you thus Shal it now be a wicked deede to remoue the Pope from the felowship of the faithful after one or two admonitions then if he amend not him selfe that all Christian Princes helpe to expell him vtterly froÌ„ the vsurpation of this his worldly kingdome But M. Sa. not séeing these vices in his holy father surmising the worst in Princes supposeth we will answere his obiection thus But one wil say no power is giueÌ„ vnto the Church of punishing or of remouing the kings froÌ„ their office therfore if the kings wil not of their own accord be ameÌ„ded they are altogither to be born withal neither caÌ„ any other thing be lawfully attempted agaynst them This truely do many preache Who they be that preach this I know not I think it but your slaunder Ill will neuer sayde well And yet whosoeso preacheth this preacheth farre better than you do whose sermon is all of treason rebellion As for vs we preache this that the preacher or spirituall pastor may in suche extremities vse a spirituall punishment of denouncing the sentence of Gods wrath agaynst him But to punishe him with bodily punishment or with expelling him from his kingdome is no more belonging to the Bishop than to put him to death The state of some kingdomes are such I grauÌ„t that the Princes regiment is but conditional and he so wel bounde to the electors of him other péeres or estates in his Signiorie as they to him and either parties sworne in his Coronation not onely to obserue those conditions but to persecute or remoue the violater of them In suche cases what those Electors Péeres Estates may do howe they may or may not do it is an other matter But that eueÌ„ in these estates the Bishops caÌ„ do it do it in that they are Bishops this we denie M. Sand and as yet you haue not proued it But I doubte not but that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe whether they be lambes or lambes dammes or rammes and that to this purpose that he shoulde strengthen that that is weake that he should heale that that is sicke that he shoulde binde vp that that is broken that he should bring againe that that is caste away that he should seeke that that is loste so that he rule not with austeritie and power You doubt not M. sand but I doubt of this that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe The eccl. power is both necessarie and profitable But the Prince is a pastor and the people are his sheepe And yet by your owne confession the ecclesiasticall power is not giuen to the Prince Had you marked this you mighte haue doubted that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the pastor ouer his sheepe Agayne the power of the sworde and putting to death malefactors is a necessarie and profitable power But the Bishop is a pastor and the people are his sheepe And yet by your own confession the power of the sworde and putting to death is not giuen to the Bishop Had you séene this also you might haue doubted that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe This lacke of doubting made you toâ—… rashe of déeming and to pronounce your sentence ouer general And as you sée in these two cases a flatte exception that you wil gladly reuoke so we muste driue you to graunte the other powers also pertayning to a King whiche notwithstanding they are necessarie and profitable are yet not giuen vnto a Bishop although he be a Pastor I pray you remember Vos autem non sic if it will not make you sicke to remember it The duties of good pastors that you cite out of Ezech. 34. God we graunt hath giuen them power thereto But the Popish pastors are as farre froÌ„ all these points much farther than the Iewishe pastors were of whome the Lorde coÌ„playneth saying VVo be to the pastors of Israel that feed theÌ„selues are not â—…he sheepe fed of the shepherds ye did eate the milk were clad with the wol â–ª that that was fat ye killed but my flock ye fed not â–ª that that was weak ye streÌ„gthned not that that was sick ye healed not that that was brokeÌ„ ye bouÌ„d not vp that that was cast away ye brought not in that that was lost ye sought not but ye ruled them with bitternesse with power how this directly toucheth the Pope and his Prelates euen the popish enterlined Glosse doth testifie Hoc proprie c. This properly is spoken of the pride of Bishops which shame with their works the dignitie of their name for humilitie taking pride who thinke they haue gotten heauen and not a burthen Whose loytring idlenesse whose vaine glorious pride whose bitter tyrannie more than kingly power was so intollerable that it was maruell that euer you durst for shame recite this place But you thought it serued to your purpose that you might vnder the name of sheepe punishe driue out Princes at your pleasures But this place giueth not Pastors power to weaken them that be strong to make them sicke that be hole to breake that that is bound vp to caste out that that is brought in to leese that that was sought for to kil deuour both the fat the leane both the Prince the people to rule with biâ—…ternesse with power al which by your popes practise is don by your exposition is defended For is not that to rule with bitternesse if ye expel your Princes froÌ„ their kingdomes can ye be any bitterer to them what earthly power can ye clayme higher than to seaze vpoÌ„ rule their kingdomes or to haue theÌ„ rule them after your rules whom you will appoynt to â—…olde them in chiefe froÌ„ you This place of Ezechiell giueth you not suche power but condemneth in Pastors the vsurpation of it But what will not impudencie wrest to serue his turne Moreouer to the minde and to reason power is giuen ouer all the members of the body insomuche that it biddeth that rotten member to be â—…ut from the body of the which it may be feared least it should infect the other members
their subiectes to reuolte from their obedience Elizeus did none of these thinges neither can this defence of Elizeus without racking be drawne hereto But M. sand â—…aith he bringeth it to this ende to shevve that the Pastors of the Churche haue povver not onely ouer the soules of the faithfull but also ouer their goods bodies If you bring it to this ende M. sand then as you bring it about the bushe and not directly to the question in hande so here youfoully ouer shoot your selfe For this Prince was not a faithfull but an Infidell Prince and the enimie of the Prince of Israell And therefore inuading with open hostilitie the Princes dominion of Israell it was lawfull for any Israelite to do the worste he could to destroye the Syrians armie Howbeit Elizeus gathered no power nor vseth any worldly violence against this foraine Princes armie as the Pope doth against foraine Princes to come vpoÌ„ them with horsses and charets and with a mightie armie like to this infidell Prince of Syria to besiege Christian Princes and the true Israelites and to destroy the Prophetes of Iesus Christ that giue Christian Princes warning of the Popish practises So that if a figure may be drawne from this historie to our times the Pope more resembleth Benedab than Elizeus As for Elizeus gathered no worldly power but with stedfast confidence commended himselfe to God and God protecteâ—… him with Millions of Angels He had power indéede to defends him and moe Armies than hath any Emperor as M. Saunders â—…aith But this power was spirituall and not such as the Pope exerciseth ouer Princes Woulde the Pope séeke 〈◊〉 other power than Elizeus did then might you M. Sanders put vp your pipes this controuersie were at an ende for deposing Princes No M. Saunders all Princessée yea euen those that are blinded with affection towardes him do sée that he séeketh hath such power as Benadab had and greater worldly power also For the maintenance whereof you here do contende by wryting as fast as he contends by fighting But this was not the power of Elizeusâ—… If you will sée a platforme of Elizeus power looke vpoÌ„ the poore Ministers of the gospel inuironed round about with your popish armies horses charets in so much that the poore simple man cryeth out as Elizeus seruant did Alas master hovve shall vve doe the Popishe Benadab hath besieged the poore Protestantes with such mightie aruâ—…es that all the world would haue thought ere this they should haue ben cleane swallowed vp But God be blessed poore Elizeus hath moe armies â–ª the poore preachers of the Gospell haue moe Legions of Angels and moe spirituall fyrie charâ—…ts and horsmen to assist them against al that assault them than that yet they coulde euer preuaile but are as was the hoste of Benadab striken more and more with blindnesse For they 〈◊〉 not blinded they must néeds sée this mightie worke of God that all whose eyes God hath opened doe beholde and glorifie God and feare not any more the hoste of this Benadab for they that be vvith vs are moe than they that be vvith them But sée howe this Captaine of Benadab that is blind himself wolo so blind vs with him that he would make vs beléeue that euen Benadab himself were Elizeus But doth the Pope vse his captiues as Elizeus did who suffered not them to be killed nor spoyled but comforted and refreshed them set them againe at libertie No M. sand we are not so blind but we al the world doth sée that as the Pope fights with other manâ—… of armies than did Elizeus so he vseth to his captiues no such mercie but more tygerly crueltie than we should finde at the Turks hands than the Turkes found at the hands of Tamerlanes the Scithian thaÌ„ is to be found among the Canibals that roast men on a spit being killed before and not â—…rye them at a stake aliue yea than a man shal finde among the Sauage Beares and Lyons that woulde quickly deuoure him Suche dispyte hath the Pope shewed euen to his owne Cardinalles where Elizeus shewed this goodnesse to his enimies And when he had them in his frée choyce to haue kylled them he let them goe frée Whereas the Pope to kill his 〈◊〉 being frée hath violated all safeconduiâ—… and broken all othes bends promises faith and honestie And is the Pope yet like Elizeus But how holds this argument Elizeus had more povver than the hoste of the Syrians Ergo Byshoppes haue power to depose Princes The second thing that M. Sand â–ª noteth in Elizeus is the excluding of King Iorams Messanger that was scute to cut off his head This factdrawes somewhat nearer to the purpose in respect of the King for he was the King of Israel to whom Elizeus was a subiect but this again is as far from the purpose in respecte of the Kings crueltie and Idolatrie wherein Ioram figureth Popish not Protestant Princes But in respect stâ—…l of the present coÌ„trouersie it is nothing to the purpose at al for the kings deposing For how foloweth this He bad them kepe the Kings seruant out that vvould haue come to cut off his head Ergo he bad them depose the King from his royal estate And here M. Sanders vrgeth the force of Elizeus words Sanctes Pagninus saith he translateth thus these later words oppresse him in the dore In vvhich vvordes is not only signified a shutting out of the Kings Messanger but also a kinde of violence done vnto him You néede not run to Pagâ—… M. Sanders our translations confesse as much premite eum in ostio reprimite illum in ostio presse him in the dore or rather represse him than oppresse him For oppressing draweth nearer to the murthering of him which was farre from Elizeus meaning and is nearer to the Popish violence But the plaine meaning is kepe him out of the dores as the coÌ„mâ—…n translation hath it Neither is it material though he were shut out before he came or thronging in before y 〈◊〉 were â—…ul shut he were violently thrust out again For this was not done of theÌ„ to resist the â—…ings authoritie nor 〈◊〉 to be done of him 〈◊〉 shew that he had such poweroâ—… his goods bodie that he might take his goods or his life froâ—… him but this that was here done was to preserue himselfe being the Prophete of God from the Kings vniust violence and from the hastie furie of the cruell murtherer whome the King sent to kill him without all lawe iustice or reason onely vpon the suddain passion of his outrage As for the Prophete he had especiall warrant by Gods especial reucaling so to bidde them and therefore the Prophete bid nothing amisse herein Yea he knewe well inough that althoughe he resisted the Kings messanger yet he resisted not the King but euen therein obeyed the King and did that he would haue had him
â–ª for the which he was cast out of the house of the lord Moreouer Ioatham his sonne gouerned the house of the king and iudged the people of the Lorde VVho seeth not the bodily casting foorthe of the king oute of the house of the Lorde clerely to expresse that ecclesiasticall power whereby kings taking vpon them the offices of Priests maye be caste out of the kingdome of heauen by the excommunication of the highest Bishop Moreouer if bicause the king was made a Leper the administration of the kings house and the gouernment of all the people was deuolued vnto the kinges sonne howe muche more the infection of heresie which as S. Augustine saythe is signified by the leprie ought to bring to passe that a Prince beeing driuen to the state of a priuate life maye be compelled to leaue his house voyde vnto hys successor This storie of king Ozias as it is already cited by M. Stapleton and was not before forgotten of M. Sanders so héere and in diuers other places it is recited Neither is there any one Popishe writer on this question of Supremacie but he alleageth this exaÌ„ple And as they thus often alleage it so is it often by vs answered and in déede it is casie to be answered for it is not to the purpose and but their malicious slaunder to burden the Protestant Princes with it who take not vpon them to do the offices belonging to the Bishops and Ministers of Gods word and Sacramentes as héere Ozias attempted to do If you can name any suche Prince and such things name them hardly M. Sand but proue it withal else you are but a slaunderer of those that be in authoritie But here M. sand applies this exaÌ„ple to this that the highest Bishop may excommunicate such a Prince and cast him out of heauen Whether your Pope be the highest Bishop or no is still another question But this is out of questioÌ„ M. sand that he is alwayes more ready to cast a Prince oâ—…t of heauen thaÌ„ to bring him into heauen and to caste him out of his kingdome too than to let him enioy it especially if he deale with him although he do not as Ozias did but do the dutie of a godly Christian king But who denieth this M. sand that a godly Bishop may vpon great vrgent occasion if it shall be necessarie to edifie Gods Church and there be no other remedie to flée to this last censure of excoÌ„municatioÌ„ against a wicked king although you can not inferre any suche necessarie conclusion vpon the allegorie of this example But what is this for the expelling him out of his kingdome â–ª and for deposing him from his estate Can you proue that Azarias and his Priests did handle Ozias thus For this is the present question but this you can not finde they dyd and therfore this example serueth not your purpose Well say you they vsed a bodily casting out of the king out of the house of the Lorde Trow you M. sand they tooke him by the héeles cast him out or by the head and the shoulders â–ª thrust him out I trow not that they layde any violent hands vpon him They withstoode him but it followeth how they saide vnto him It pertayneth not to thee to burne inceÌ„se vnto the Lord but to the priests the sons of Aaron that are coÌ„secrated to offer incense Go foorth of the SaÌ„ctuary for thou hast traÌ„sgressed thou shalt haue no honor of the Lord God. This was no resistaÌ„ce M. San. to blam him for his wickednesse wheÌ„ he regarded not their sayings but was wroth with theÌ„ was eueÌ„ ready to offer the incense God stroke him with the leprie So that it appeareth they laid no violeÌ„t hands on him but rebuked him yet in his fury he had done it had not God him self with his sodayn vengeance stopped him If they had béene so disposed béeing forty valiant men besides the highe Priest they might haue wroong the Censor out of his hande and might haue pulled off the Priestly garments from his backe for so Iosephus telleth how he came into the Temple howbeit they resisted him not in suche violent â—…rte But say you when they espied God had once striken him with the leprie then quickly they thrust him out But not with violence M. Sanders Non explicatur expulsio c. saythe your Cardinall of Caieta thrusting him out is not expressed but the Priests when they sawe the Leprie warned the leprous king to go foorth Neither néeded he then any great warning Sed ipse c. For the king himselfe beeing terrified made haste to get out bicause he felte foorth with the stroke of the Lorde so that he was not only moued of the priests but also moued of him selfe féeling the 〈◊〉 of God to go out of the Temple What great violence was here done of the Priests to the King except their rebuking or warning of him either before his presumptuous attempt or after Did they strike him No God stroke him M. Sanders and not the Priests for all they were so many tall fellowes and had mighte inough to haue striken him If your Pope therefore and his Prelates will take this Bishop and his Priests for their example they muste be as S. Paule sayth no strikers nor fighters chiefly not not agaynst their Princes they must be mightie but not in blowes but potentes sermone mightie in the word to reproue the wickednesse of Princes and so resist them as S. Paule sayth he resisted Peter to his face not that he buffeted or pâ—…meld him with his fiste aboute the face as Bishop Boner did his prisoners But he resisted him in spéeche reprehending him and with such resistance these Priests resisted the king â–ª and all Bishops may and ought to resist all wycked princes but this is farre from deposing them or sollicitâ—…ng other Princes to make warre vpon them or mouing their subiects to rebell agaynst them But master Sanders brgeth further what followed The king beeing a â—…eper dwelt in a house apart til the day of his death and his sonne gouerned the kings house and iudged the people of the lande What is this M. Sand to the Priests deposing of him that he dwelt aparte For beeing a Leper God in his lawe had so appoynted Leuit. 13. Neyther dyd the contagion of his disease suffer the administration of his office Howbeit neither for his offence nor for his punishmeÌ„t therof was he deposed froÌ„ his kingdom his sonne made king but the sonne as his fathers deputie â–ª administred the affaires of his fathers kingdome so for al this Ozias continued king euen til the day of his naturall deathe whiche was a longer time if your Glosse be true after this fact than he had beene king before this fact coÌ„mitted â–ª For saith your owne glosse Volunt Hebraei c. The Hebrues will haue it that this hapâ—…ed in the 25. yere
vsurpation is first described And the text is plaine that she had no right The right Kyng was Ioas when his brethren were slâ—…ine Therefore here was no deposing of hir Neyther durst you say that Ioiada deposed hir but he comaunded hir both to be deposed and killed Although for commaundement of deposing hir you finde no suche thing for she was not their lawfull gouernour this therfore serueth not to the purpose of deposing a lawfull Prince and that for heresie which was not layde to hir charge neither was she killed for that cause but as a traytresse to the Crowne as a murderer of hir owne bloode and as a mere vsurper of the kingdome that belonged nothing to hir And therfore Ioiada did but as a good and faithfull subiect should do to his liege Lord and to his heyres after him and not as one that by his Priestly office had power ouer the royall estate Secondly I aunswere that the doyngs of Ioiada herein were vpon such especiall occasions necessities that it is euill drawne of you to an ordinarie example For none of the Priests either did the like or coulde claime to doe the like to their kings as Ioiada had done muche lesse to be drawne to an example for y ministers of Christ to follow First Io ada was the vncle by affinitie vnto Ioas for Ioiada the highe Priests wife was sister vnto King Dehozias whose childreÌ„ Athalia being their Grandmother did murther saue that Ioas being a new borne babe was priuily conueyed away by his Aunt Iosaba the highe Priestes wife where he was closely norished in the Temple till he was sixe or seauen yeares olde Good reason had Ioiada to kéepe the yong King his Cousin and more righte thereto than any other not by vertue of his Priestly office but being thus of God sent vnto him by his wines industrie for the childes close and safer preseruing in the Temple And yet this nourishing a childe and his nourse in the Temple coulde so litle be drawne to any ordinarie example that if necessitie had not enforced it it had not béene allowable As euen Lyra noteth out of Rabbi Solomon Quod puer nutrix sua c. That the Childe and his Nourse vvere kept in the loft of the Temple of the Lord vvhere nobodie durst approche but the Priestes and the Leuites that kept the holy vessels there layde vp to the entent they might there the better be hidden And althoughe it vvas othervvise vnlavvfull for a vvoman and a childe to be there yet in such a necessitie it vvas lavvfull As Dauid and his men did eate the Priestly breade being driuen in necessitie vvhich notvvithstanding othervvise had bene vnlavvfull for him Thus can not this déede of Ioiada for the nourishment of Ioas be drawne to any ordinarie example Neyther durst Ioiada be knowne of this déede that no doubt had cost him his life had it bene but suspected Whiche argueth he had no ordinarie authoritie to put downe the Princes no not this very vsurper being also a murtherer and an Idolater In al whiche cases if he had had any ordinarie power and right thereto be woulde no doubt haue openly professed and auouched his doing and not haue kept it so long close and priuilie watched his oportunitie But nowe the childe being thus by the highe Priest and his wife preserued and nourished which childe had the onely to the crowne lay it not him vpon was it not his dutie yea his obedience too bothe that he ought before to his brother in lawe deceassed and to this his yong nephewe extant that the childe should haue his right inheritance and to whome belonged the procurement hereof rather than to him that had the childe in custodie besides that he was his vncle sith no man of any countenance knewe hereof but he howe should the childe haue gotten his right but by him But did he make the child King by his priestly authoritie as though the Priestes had had the interest to appoint and make such Kings as they pleased No but it was the duetie of the one to procure it and the right of the other to haue it And yet that he did not this of himselfe the text saith plaine he toke and brought Centurions and Souldiors to him into the TeÌ„ple Here consequently saith Lyra is discribed the InstitutioÌ„ of the true heire by the carefulnesse of loiada the high priest seking to this the assent of the Princes nobles of the kingdome So that he sought their assent help or euer he would detect the Childe vnto them And for this present necessitie he brake the order also of the priests courses that King Dauid had appointed for the sonnes of Aaron Leui to minister wéekely then to giue place to other These he stayed for the more number strength to establish the yong King in his right so by these extraordinarie meanes he crowned him king caused the murtherer and vsurper to be killed This fact therfore of Ioiada can not be drawne to an ordinarie example except in these points that euery good subiect so much as in him lyeth shoulde preserue the lawfull Kings childreÌ„ and heires not suffer any other to whom the inheritance belongeth not to vsurp the crown but the right and lawful heire thereof to enioy it to expell al intruders vsurpers chiefly such ty ants as séeke their vsurpation by execrable murthering especially suche as against nature destroy their own bloud and al such as by any other trayterous meanes aspire to the kingdome and so far forth as they conueniently can to helpe to restore the lawfull heire therto as to whom only they owe their homage and are sworn This is al godly subiects and so all godly Bishops priests duties in euery Christian kingdome Thus may this doing of Ioiada be drawne to an ordinary example which we denie not But what is this for Bishops to giue kingdomes from the right heire to him that hath no clayme therto but by the Bishops gifte who giues a large thong of another mans leather as doth the Pope giue kingdomes froÌ„ one to another hauing no more right to giue them than the other to take them Which is not to expel an vsurper but for one vsurper to set vp an other vsurper whiche is no more lyke this example than an apple is like an â—…yster Thirdly I answerâ—… for Ioiadaes knowledge of the kings causes he had them not in respect he was the high Priest but in respecte he was the vncle the guardian the norisher and protector of the 〈◊〉 person béeing a childe and yet this is spoken by M. 〈◊〉 without the booke that after the coronation he had the knowledge of the kings causes Neither yet if he had the knowledge of theÌ„ the king béeing in such estate somuch beholding to his vncle a general rule could be made there or was made among the Iewes or
on a vvrong principle M. Saunders examples of a vvoman and a chylde M. Saund. argument not only excludeth a vvomen and a chylde but also a man from the supreme gouernement The Papistes are culpable of womens doing eccl. actions Diuers thinges that women cannot wel do themselues and yet can well ouersee them done by others 1. Corinth 4. Saunders 59. Saunders 59. Esaie 62. Hebr. 10. 1. Conn 10. How the kinges or the prestes or the Churches authorities are greater or lesser in sundrye respects M. Saunders graunteth the gouernmentes of the Church in the old testa ment to bee a figure of the Churches gouernment in the new testament Saunders 60. Leuit. 4. 1. 2. 3. 4. M. Saunders argument of the more worthy beast offered in Sacrifice The difference in the things offred made the difference of worthinesse in the offerer Leuit. 2. Leuit. 3. Leuit 8. Leuit. 9. M. San. argument from the dignitie of the former recital M. Saunders confutes himselfe Sand pag. 60. Philo in lib â–ª de victimis The testimonie of Philo Iudeus Euseb. lib. 2. cap. 17. Origenes in Leuit 4. Allegories How Philo maketh the Prince inferior to the people The example of a body naturall conserred with a bodie politâ—…ke sand pag. 60 â–ª Wherfore God ordayned these diuersiâ—…ies of sacrifices Why the prists sinnes are first reckoned Leuit. 4. Lyra. Why the priest offered the Bullocke â–ª Lâ—…ra in Leui. 4 Why the peoples sinne is reckoned in the secoÌ„d place The Churches vniuersall igraunce Leuit. 4. Glosse interlineata Why the people offered the like thing that the priest offered Sand. 60. M. Saunders contrarieth himselfe Sand 60. Psal. 104. Hebre. â—… Num. â—… Ierem. 33. Annoynting Psal 44. Saunders 60. Iohn 13. Math. 24. M. Saunders graunteth the ministers to be lesse than the people Saunders 60. Saunders 60. Iosephus de Antiq. â—…udaic lib. 3. cap. 10. sand pag. 60. Theodoretus in Leuiticum quest 1. Procopius in Leuiticum Sand pag. 61. Hebre. 7. Leuit. 9. The Priests blessing Daniel 3. Saunders 61. 3. Reg. 8. Hebre. 7. The Papistes shifte for salomons blessing the people Lira in 3. â—…e 8. The people blesse the king 1. Reg â—…6 1. Reg 20. Iosue 14. 4. Reg. 10. Tob. 7. Iudith 13. sand pag. 61. 1. Reg. 8. M. Saunders woulde make the king gouernement to be contrarie to the priests and prophets blessings The Popes blessing and cursing Psalme 101. The question Among all the Iudges but one priest and one prophete gouerned the Churche of God. Rom. 9. Wherewith God was offended for the peoples demanding a king 1. Reg. 10. Lyra. 1. reg 10. The kings estate immediatly froÌ„ God and aboue al other representeth him Saunders 61. Psalm 95. The Popisâ—…e priesthoode hath no resem blance of God. The tyrannie of the Popishe Priestes gouernment Sand. 61. Sand 61. Difference betweene the kings vâ—…ces his office Priestes leade the people to Idolatrie The highe Priestes before the building of the temple The highe Priestes after the building of the Temple Nâ—…hem 13. Iosephus lib. 1â—… â–ª anti ca. 7. Nehem. 13. Iosephus lib. 12 ca. 4. 2. Mach. 4. 2. Mach. 4. Ioseph li. 13. ca 4. Whether the priests or the Princes gouernment among the Iewes were worse Sand. 61. Gregorius in 1. reg li. 4 ca. 4. Gregorie brought out of place Gregories sentence contraries it selfe Howe Gregories sentenceis graunted vâ—…to Gregorie acknowledged the princes supremacie ouer himselfe Gregorie reproueth them that called him vniuersal Pope The title cheif of the priests or chiefe priest improued in in the Popes owne decrees Saunderâ—… 61. The king and the priest made for the peoples cause The kingâ—…e state made for the honor of Christ and represented Christe as well and better than the priests estate Rom. 4. How farre the kingdome of christ surmouÌ„teth his priesthood Math. 6. Saunders 61. 2. Corinth 3. Comparison betwene the ministers of the olde and new testameÌ„t Math. 20. Mark. 10. Luke 22. In outward glory the ministers of the new testament are inferior in inward glory superior Sand pag. 61. Saâ—…d pag. 61. Psalm 2. Math. 10. Kings ought to be learned The Popishe priestes would be princes mai sters and gouernors vnder preâ—…ence of teachers How the teachers are aboue and vnder the princes whom they â—…eache Exodus 18. 2. Reg. 12. Iudith 8. The Simlitude of a scholemaister Howe the prince thoughe himselfe not learned directeth lawes for learning Sand pag â–ª 62. Math. 28. From teaching to gouerning is no good coÌ„sequence Succession of the Apostles consistes in teaching The Pope teaching not as Peter Paule did is not their successor Sand pag. 62. Esai 49. The similitude of a nource Sand. 62. See Chrysost. in C. 13. ad Rom. Hebr. 13. The respectes of a king of a Christian and of a man. Deut. 17. The Christian Prince regardeth further thaÌ„ the natural or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 M. Saunders would dissuade vs hoÌ„ the Prin ces supremacie by the successe thereof The Papistes rayling and sâ—…laundering of K. Henry 8. Sand. 63. Epistola Iudae K. Henry 8. â—…claundered to 〈◊〉 his subiects King Henry 8 selaundered with counterfeyting the coyâ—…e What coyne the Papistes counterfeited King H. selandered with his wiues Leuit. 18. 1. Paral. 15. King Henrie not the firste that toke vpon him this supre macâ—…e King Henrieâ—… prosperitie after hee had expelled the Pope sand pag. 63. The Papists de facings of K. Edwarde The Prince sclaundered to take an ecclesicall primacie If K Edwarde were as full a king as his father then he had all the right of his father Sand. 63. Christes age when he begaÌ„ to preach Distinction be twenâ—… the kigs nature and hâ—…s person and his office Saunders 6â—… Gal. 4. The doings of the kings gouernors in his nonage at the kings owne doings Sand. 63. M. Saunders preuention answere to our obiection A childe maye be a king euen by Gods lawe ImperfectioÌ„ of the person inferreth not im perfection of the lawe Saunders 6â—… The more the Papistes discoÌ„mende king Henrie the more it redouÌ„deth to his coÌ„mendation The Papistes argument of a childes successioÌ„ to blemishe the supremacy doth rather confirme it Saunders 63. 1. Tim. 2. The shortnesse of King Edwards raigne no argument against his authoritie Queenes Maries raigne shorter than king Edwards The supremacie of a woman 1. Tim. 2. The vnderstan ding of Saint Paules sentence for womans silâ—…ee and subiection pag. 59. Caietanus in 1 Tim. 2. Catharinus in 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Saunders 63. Queene Maries refusall of this title If the reasoÌ„ of the sequele be ought loke on the euents in Queene Maries raigne after hir refusall of the supremacie Saunders 63. How the Papists sclander the Queene The prosperous successe of the Queenes Maiesties raign since hir first taking on hir this supremacy â—… Sand pag. 64. M. Saunders graunteth to Princes to assigne the tyme and place to Councels M. Saunders speaketh contraries The Papistes make Princes but as priuate men in their Councels Sand.
vp another Robins hoods lawe How readie popishe priests are to stuâ—…e vp rebellion sand pag. 79. The Princes throne called the chaire of pestilence The Popishe Priests professe to remoue the Prince by whatsoeuer meanes they can A pestilent doctrine Sand. 78. Hebrs 13. What the Popishe Priestes watch for 2. Pet. 5. sand pag. 79. sand pag. 7â—… The danger of euil Princes commoditie of godly Princes to their people Iob. 34. Sand. 79. 3. Reg. 12 The example of Ieroboam that M. sand alledgeth maketh cleane against him 3. Reg. 13. 14 3. Reg. 12. He that will not become a traytor is not worthy with M sand the name of a maÌ„ sand pag. 79. Act. 20 Tit. 3. No good argument from the Priestes iudging of the Prin ces doctrine to his iudging of the Princes diademe Act 20. Priestes corrupt and blind iudgements Matth. 23. M. sand fallation a secunduÌ„ quid ad simpli citer Hovv far the Papistes make kings inferior to Byshops The fable of the Lyon and Fox sand pag 79 Psalm 2. 1. Cor. 2. Dani. 2. 7. The heauenly and earthly kingdome are not so ioyned that the Byshops may be earthly kings The Apostles and Martyrs deposed no kings Sand pag. 79. To this purpose saith PoÌ„ponius â—… â–ª Cum quid mutuum de reb creditis M. Saunders obiection and answere Whether a Bishop may take a kingdome vpon him pro perly or vnproperly The Princes promise The breach of the Popes and of his Prelates promises The Princes breach of promise authoriseâ—…h not Bishops to depose him The example of Saule and Dauid What bishops may do or not do to princes hauing broken their promises Howe Princâ—… haue bene deposed What rule may be gathered by suche deposingâ—… of Princes Deposing of Princes by the Prelates practises Heb. 10. What subiects may do when the Prince breakes his promise Rom. 1. The right meanes that the B may vse when the prince breaketh his promise The combate betwene the Cardinall of Columne and the Pope The princes promise in theâ—… baptisme The Bishops promise in Paptisme is the same that the princes is The papistes shift to kâ—…pe their liuings for all their promise broken The priestes partialitie The contracte made to christ in Baptisme The king promised not to renounce his kingdome when he was Baptised The subiect promised not to renounce his Prince at Baptisme D. Stories error in defending that subiects misliking their princes may forsake them What we all promised in Baptisme The example of a contracte in mariage Math. 14. Promise brech in mariage As the priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the man the woman so the B. caÌ„not separate the prince the subiect sand pag. 79. 80. 1. Cor 10. Math. 19. M. Sâ—…ers examples of King Lucius King Clodoueâ—…s The state of infants not like these Princes M. Saund presupposals of these two princes are false King Lucius his baptisme Aimonius li. 1 de gestis Francorum ca. 16. The order how King Clodoueâ—…s was baptiâ—…ed Here was no sech conditioÌ„s of deposing exacted of the Bishop in the Princes baptisme The sâ—…uerie that M. Saund. woulde bring Princes into pasieth the Spa nishe â—…quisition The promises and threates of God that the auncient prophets declared vnto kinges M. Saunders presuppose admitted The Popishe Bishops seeke more than the Christian fauh The kings examination of the Bishops condition M. Saunders presupposall admitted once agayne The kings diligent trauell to discharge his charge performe the condition The kingâ—…â—…ration Sand pag 80. Daniel 7. Esai 60. Luc. 10. Math. 16. Daniels prophecie wrested M sand to be suspected of beeing a Milenarie here â—…ke â—…say wrested The Prophete speaketh of the Church the Papists applie it to the priests The glory that the prophet vnderstandeth mystically the Papists vnderstand it literally The Papistes the Iewes sored in one error of dreaming after worldly glory â–ª Christs senteÌ„cs wrested Luc. 10. Iude. epist. Christes sentencâ—… wrested Math. 16. The gates of hell sand pag 80. Rom. 1. Domesticall forain enimies What a perillous enimie the Pope is Whether the king or the B. in M. sand presupposal be more enimie to the Church â—…pe can Christes â—…er â—…tth 4. he cause of â—…aith â—…edience of What thepâ—…inces will ought to be Sand. 80. 〈◊〉 14. Byshops translatioÌ„s of king domes this way or that way Whether the kings promise in baptisme stretch to suffering the Bishop to depose him The kings mi nistration to Christ and his Churche Hovv the king oughte to forsake his life or his kingdom 1. Cor. 3. Lucae 21. Luke 14. sand pag 80. Christian king domes are not mere seculer 1. Reg. 15. 2. Paral. 26. 1. Reg. 15. Leo in epist. 2â—… alias 75. Supra pag. M. Saunders contradiction and legerdemayâ—… M. Saunders seeth now that ChristiaÌ„ Princes are spirituall The Churches disposition of things indifferent To whome in the church the disposition of indifferent things belongeth Things meere spirituall and things spirituall in some respect Meere spiritual thinges may not be otherwise disposed What kinde of thing the state of a King or kingdome is The Churches freedome mysticall The Popishe Churche 1. Reg. 15. The example of Samuels anoynting of Saule M Saunders confutes him selfe The Churche coulde not depose Saule though he were a tyrante and an Apostata Prouerb 8. Dan. 2. Sand. 81. M. Saunders bious conclusion The Bishops ministerie in the making of the king Samuel Pope Leo his sentencâ—… sand pag. â—… Chrysost. Homil 4. in verba Esaiae The kingeâ—… anoynting In Extrauag de Maiorit obed Vnam sanctam The Bishops consecratioÌ„ of a king The diuerse significations of oyle in the scriptures No necessitie of anoynting Kings In Extanag de Maiorit c sand pag. 81. 〈◊〉 1. Ioh. 20. Epiphanius in Hares 29. 1. Cor. 15. M. sand case if Christ were here bodily conuersant in the earth M. Saunderâ—… case vnrtue Act. 3. Math. 24. Christes humaine nature not in the Sacrament If Christ vvere in hiâ—… humaâ—…n nature in the earth vvhat superioritie shoulde be giuen him What kingdoÌ„e Christ vvoulde take vpon him he vvere here in earth How the pope vvould order him 2. Thess. 2. 2. Thess. 2 The Churches promotion Math 20. What povver the ministers haue Math. 28. Iohn 20. Difference of povver Glossa in Lyra super Ioh. Epiphanius in Haeres 29. Sand. 81. 82. Math. 20. Gal. 5. Hebr. 10. Ephes. 4. Hebr. 13. Math. 28. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Cor. 5. 2. Cor. 2 7 Math. 16. Rom. 8. The difference and vnion of both povvers temporall and spirituall Supra pag. 791. Supra pag. Hovv the povver of all estates are vnder the pastors povver and hovv not Hovv they are all vnder the kings povver hovv not How â—…ere is no difference in these povvers Hovv there is a difference in these povvers The mixture of these povvers sand pag. 82. 1. Cor. 2. Rom. 10. Ciuil gouernors from the beginning as auncient as spirituall pastors M. sand malice against the name of
Popes cru 〈◊〉 to his cap tiueâ—… vnlike the cuâ—…sie of Elizeus Elizeus caused the kings messanger to be kept out of the 〈◊〉 4. Reg. 6. Elizeus resisted not the King in keeping out his Mesâ—…anger Lyra in 4. Reg. 6. Caleâ—…anus in 4 Reg. 6. Elizeus cursed the children that mocked him and the Beares deuoured them 4. Reg. 2. Glossa cum 〈◊〉 â—…a in 4. Reg. â—… Sâ—…nd 87. Zacha. 13. Deut 17. 2. Cor. 3. Where faithful princes wanted 〈◊〉 Prophet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mâ—…nt to â—…od The obedience to the 〈◊〉 oâ—… nee 〈◊〉 to Christianitie by M sand ar gument No neede of myracles Zacha. 13. Zacha. 13. The prophecie for punishing of false Prophetes The punishment of false Prophetes belongeth to the Prince The popishe clergie be such false prophetes as Zacharie prophecied of The fountaine of grace Idolatrie Teaching of lyes Ignorance Hipocrisâ—… of rough garmâ—… The detection and punishmeÌ„t of popery prophecied by Zacharie The wresting of the comâ—…oÌ„ alleaged place Deut. 17. Zacharie 11. Zacharies prophecie of the Pope Lyra in Za. 11. The Pope an Idol Glossa cum Lyra. sand pag. 87. Deut. 17. 1. Cor. 3. The ministration of the popish ministerie sand pag. 87. 2. Paraâ—… 26. Aug. Quest. lib. 2. q. 40. The example of king Ozias attempting to offer incence The pope readier to casâ—…e Princes out of heauen than to bring the into heauen In what case a Bishop maye excommunicate a â—…icked Prince The Priestes withstoode the king but not with any bodily violence â–ª 2. Paâ—…al 26. Caietanus in 2 Paâ—…al 26. The Pope dealeth not with Princes as Azarias did 1. Tim. 3. Gal. 2. This king was neuer deposed for all this offence sand pag. 87. Leuit â–ª 13. 1. Cor. 10. 2. Paral. 26. The similitude of leprie compared to heresie Aug. â—… Quest. 2. Q. 40. A similitude of man is no manifest testimonie of the vvorde of God. This similitude is applied of the Papistes to other things The Priest did but discerne of the disease and not dispossesse men of their goods The excluding of the Leper from coÌ„panie belongeth not to the priest Num. 5. The texâ—… of scripture 〈◊〉 alleagâ—…d This law was Iudicial and so vve are not bounde to it nor it is any figure to vs. S. Paule vvrested Haymo in 1. Cor. 10. Rom. 15. Math. 13. 1. Cor. 7. The morall or mysticall signification of separating the leper separareth not the â—…king from his kingdome The example of king Ozâ—…s confuâ—…es M. sand figure This figure maketh agaiÌ„st popish priests not against protestant Princes sand pag. 87. 3. Reg. 11 â–ª 3. Reg. 12. Malach. 2. The example of Ioiada the high priest that caused Athalia to be killed Ioas to be made king M. sand confuse citing of the scripture No king is here deposed but an vsurper killed Lyra in 4. Reg. 11. The doings of Ioiada were vpon such occasioÌ„n that they can not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 example The close nou rishment of so as by the high priest his vncle in the Temple was extraordinarie Lyra in 3. Reg. 11. The close doing of Ioiada argueth he had no ordinarie authoritie In what respect this doing belonged chiefly to the high Priest. Lyra in 3. Reg. 11. That which Ioiada did he did it not by his owne authoritie but by consent of the prin ces nobilitie Wherein Ioiadaes facte may be drawne to an example In what respect ioiada had knowledge of the Kings causes The King might haue knowledge in the Byshops causes 2. Paral. 23. 4. Reg. 12 How the king delt with the priests for their â—…blations Glossâ—… in Lyra. Ioas gouernement ouer the priestes stretched fâ—…ther than to money matters Howe the B. is a sequester betweene God the Prince The B the Lords Angell or Messanger and the Prinâ—…es the Lordes Christe or annoynted The euent of 〈◊〉 off al wâ—…rres and â—…umults if the Pope might de pose and set vp all Princes The hurlie burlies that the Pope haâ—…h made The popes wiâ—… kâ—…d peace if it were admitted M. Sand arguments out of the new Testament Mar. 5. Iohn 2. 1. Cor. 5 â–ª 1. Tim 1. Act. 5. Faultes escaped in the prince Faultes Corrections good ministers good ministers 232. 〈◊〉 24. the summâ—… the 〈◊〉 316. 〈◊〉 23. the reasâ—… the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 377. 〈◊〉 8. secundâ—… secundâ—…m 386. lin 12. tamen 〈◊〉 tamen â–ª 391. lin 14. also â—…ll 〈◊〉 403. lin 21. renouned 〈◊〉 408. lin 16 â–ª that is that it is â–ª 408. lin 34. in the in 〈◊〉 410. in the 〈◊〉 treaâ—…ise 〈◊〉 432. lin 24. peccatum peccati 469. lin 10. together thether 512. lin 10. godly 〈◊〉 541. lin 32. let hiâ—… to let him 577. lin 12. dealing deale 581. lin 20. whom against whome 593. lin 14 â–ª yuo you 599. lin 2. et despetto de diâ—… in dispetto di dio 599. lin 9. yemay he may 605. lin 19. causes is causes as 617. lin 5. as who though B. as though the B. 625. lin 31. though follow though it follow 632. lin 28. giuing giuâ—… 636. lin 9. reddit reddite 641. lin 10. not not onely 636. in the margine but yet â—…r elsâ—… 649. lin 1. so long so farre 652. lin 22. Emperors the Emperors 674. lin 11. about about it 705. lâ—…n 12. as are 717. lin 2. that that that yet 721. lin 8. is simply â—…s simply 731. lin 19. grautned graunted 732. lin 19. or if the or if in the. 767. lin 30. prioris prioribus â–ª 788. lin 22. which was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which was not 824. lin 5. you youâ—… 83â—… lin 16. â—…ereth 〈◊〉 955. lin 10. not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lin 12. the breast their breast 〈◊〉 lin 34. can do more câ—… do no more 865. lin 22. qualle equally 866. 〈◊〉 15. thereof thâ—… of 881. lin 21. authoritie of 〈◊〉 authoritie and. 897. lin â—…4 is a Cathoâ—… 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 â—…08 lin 26. inconuenâ—…t incompetent 915. lin 14. ye the yet he 925. lin 16. that 〈◊〉 that it is 928. lin 25. and in deede and then in deede 959. lin 20. or couetousnesse our couetousnesse 1024. lin 2. or ambition our ambition ibidem lin 2. or dainteâ—…es our dainteynes ibidem lin â—… sprake speake 1042. lin 17. that that that 1045. lin 2. the that 1056. lin 1. there thereon 1107. lin 22. from so from ibidem lin 32. Manie other faultes are escaped in the printing by reason the author vvas not alvvayes present but they are such as thou maist gentle reader thy selfe correct them