the Masse or Sermon of any deriving power from thence and keep him in his house he is punishable as an ayder and abbettor within the words of the statute he knowing that whereof he cannot be ignorant by the rules of his profession As for the second branch of the said proposition let any man iudge whether it be reason sufficient of it selfe that the professors of the Roman Catholicke Religion both spirituall and temporall being to a few the Natives and residents of this kingdome should desire a freedome of their Religion and to be freed and exempted from the penalties and pressures aforesaid whereby his Maiesty never received any advantage and have beene the occasion of many inconveniences in the kingdome And it is evident that by this freedome all his Maiesties good subiects aswell Protestants as Catholickes will bee united more then ever before when their condition is equall and neyther partie have occasion to envy or oppresse the other It will not be unworthy of consideration that in reason of state the constitution of his Maiesties three kingdomes as now they stand being duely weighed that this freedome and exemption is most necessarie for his Maiesties service and safetie 2. It is of the essence of Parliaments to be free the contrary was practised here The composition of this Parliament is desired to be of men estated and interested in the kingdome of genuyne and right members and to bee returned from proper places and by right ministers The suspension of the act for this free Parliament cannot preiudice his Maiesty for that nothing is to passe as an act before transmission other then what shall bee agreed upon and expresly mentioned in the Articles of peace 3. It is conceived this pretended Parliament was determined by the death of the Lord Deputy VVandesford most of the estated and right members thereof did not appeare in it since the 7. of August 1641. those who now appeare as members thereof viz. of the Commons-house are for a great part not much interessed and other wholy uninteressed therein and one order therein made to exclude the said Catholicks from the house other orders to their disadvantage were and or might have beene made in the said Commons-house Therefore it is desired that all the proceedings of the said pretended Parliament may be declared voyde and taken of the file 4. When those indictments were found outlawries promulged the said Catholickes are informed and hope to iustifie that those who governed in this kingdome or some of them did plot and practise the totall extirpation of the said Catholicks asmuch as in them lay did encrease the troubles to that end and shute up the gates of his Maiesties mercie against the said catholickes even against those who were undeniably innocent as may appeare by many instances the manner of appointing of Sheriffes who returned the Iurors the persons appointed the Iurors condition affection the infinite numbers of the persons indicted outlawed being never called to answer other circumstances touching or depending of the said Records being so generally destructive to the said Catholicks they cannot otherwise choose then to insist on the taking them of from the file that no such markes of infamy may remayne of Record against them whose ancestors for the space of foure hundred yeares and upwards faithfully served the Crowne 5. This proposition is so just and equall in it selfe that there needeth not any reason or proofe to be urged for it 6. This proposition being yeelded into by the answer except the late Plantations in the County of VVicklow and Iduogh in the county of Kilkenny and excepting the encrease of Rents is referred to what shall bee urged upon the fixt answer 7. In all or most Letters-patents granted of Plantation Lands and some other lands in this kingdome since the making of the said statutes certaine clauses and conditions were inserted in them that no land should be sold or past to any of the meere Irish or of the Irish Nation as the cōdition is in some Patents these clauses doe did nourish division and distinction between his Maiesties subiects the like was never used in England nor in any other kingdome They extend not only to the old Irish but likewise by construction to the old English for he that is borne in Ireland though his parents and all his ancestors were Aliens nay if his parents were Indians or Turks if converted to Christianitie is an Irish-man as fully as if his ancestors were here borne for thousands of yeares and by the Lawes of England as capable of the liberties of a subiect Such markes of distinction being the insteps to trouble and warre are incompatible with peace and quiet 8. The said Roman Catholickes being rendred incapable of any command or trust by the statutes aforesaid may be relieved herein upon removall of the impediments mentioned in the reasons for the first proposition and particular instances shewed for the present yet such were the Character layed upon them here and the representations made of them from hence heretofore into England that they apprehend they suffer thereby in his Majesties opinion of them which they conceive an impediment and stop to many graces and favours they expect and hope to merite from his Majestie In all ages past before the said statutes their ancestors were preferred to places of eminence and trust within their Native countries and since very seldome three presidents since can hardly be instanced The condition of Roman Catholickes in Ireland where there are an hundred Catholickes to one of any other Religion differs much from that of England or Scotland where there is scarce one Catholicke to a thousand of the protestant religion In all the Nations of Christendome the Natives of the place are advanced before others 9. The Court of Wards was begun here a bout the foureteenth yeare of King Iames and never before It hath not the warrant of any Law or statute In England it was erected by act of Parliament The subject is extreamely oppressed thereby by the multitude of informations against all freeholders from the highest to the lowest without any limitation of time the frequent Courts of Escheaters Feodaries the destruction of the Tenures of mesnes Lords by making many Tenures to be In Capite against Law by the sale of the wards from hand to hand as of Horses in a Market by the want of Provision for portions of younger children whereby they perish or take ill courses debts remaine unsatisfied and though by the statute of Merton cap. 5. Vsurie doth not runne upon Infants yet the Collaterall security eyther of men or Land mortgaged are not relieved by that statute The King never received one shilling advantage by this Court ultra reprisas for twenty shillings damage done thereby to his people the vast fortunes of the officers and ministers of the said Court how suddainely raysed on the ruynes of many others his Majesties subjects And let all the wards since the
erection of the Court be numbred for one that gayned civilitie or breeding during their minority many will be found to have departed the said Court with ignorance losse or impayring of their estates and other great inconveniences No diminution of his Majesties profit is desired the personall service upon all occasions shall be performed The extinction of this Court and of the Tenures in capite or by Knights service is humbly desired to be taken away and a course for his Majesties profit and service and preservation of Heires and Orphans and satisfaction of Creditors shall be then humbly proposed The respit and issues of homage being of no considerable advantage to the Crowne and an intolerable yoke to the subject is likewise desired to be taken off and a way of equall benefit to his Majesty shall be proposed 10. The great number of these Lords uninteressed in the kingdome their ends in seeking for those honours and the late introduction of the example being considered it may be easily judged how unequall or unjust it is that the votes of men of no estate and never resident in the kingdome if not for designe should impose a charge wherein they contribute nothing or put Lawes by which they are not bound themselves 11. The independencie of the Parliament of Ireland of the Parliament of England is so cleere and manifest by Law Iustice usage and necessitie that they humbly desire it may not bee driven into dispute yet in as much as the Royall assent wrested from his Majestie to the acts of subscription may draw a preiudice or discountenance upon our Parliament a declaration herein and act of Parliament is desired 12. This proposition is in it selfe so reasonable and the restraint layed on the Councell-Table from taking cognizance of matters determinable in the Kings ordinarie courts of Iustice by the Common Law the great Charter thirty times confirmed by Parliament and sundry other acts of Parliament of force in this Kingdome is so manifest and cleere that there is no need of further reasoning or proofe for the same therefore it is consonant to Law Iustice that the partyes aggreeved should bee restored to what they lost and left in statu quo c. as is desired and that no matter determinable in the ordinarie Courts may bee determined at the Councell-table 13. This proposition being for free trade and commerce so necessarie for advancement of his Maiesties service and profit and so indifferently inducing to the weale of his people it is conceived that all who are interessed in the Kingdome ought to contribute their endeavours for the attaining of what is thereby humbly desired 14. The place of chiefe governour of this Kingdome being of so great honour and high trust and therfore to be conferred upon such as studie his Maiesties service and the prosperitie of the Kingdome without regard to particular interest this limitation will keepe the chiefe governor warie from offending any subiect or descending so low as to give occasion even of speech that his actions are unwarrantable or his purchases acquired by oppression men are to bee chosen for this place that have no need to purchase 15. The malice and power of the malignant partie in England and Scotland and of their adherents abroad and threatned danger of in vasion to bee made by them and the invitation thereunto of many in this Kingdome who are knowne to have studied and plotted the ruine of this Kingdome are motives sufficient for the granting of the contents of this proposition and that the Kingdome be alwayes in posture of defence of it selfe and all the well affected subiects thereof 16. The passing of an act of oblivion to quiet and secure the mindes of all his Maiesties subiects in a case so generall wherein the most of his Maiesties subiects one way or other are involved is so necessary and so pursuing the presidents and examples not onely of England and Ireland but also of other States and Kingdomes that without the passing thereof some Imbers of mischiefe may still remaine which may though God forbid turne unto great flammes witnesse the Barons warres the warres of Yorke and Lancaster these present troubles of England and Scotland and other examples even in this Kingdome And it there be any possibilitie to relieve all particulars when the generall concernment is in question 17. Honour Iustice equitie and reason of State doe pleade for this proposition Wee desire notwithstanding those reasons to bee admitted to shew such further and other reasons and adde hereunto what wee shall thinke fit touching the matters wherein the answers are short or not satisfactorie As the Lord Lieutenant in his answer gave the Proposers no occasion to use any unfitting expressions so hee may not but declare the Comparison and some other expressions in their preamble to bee very unnecessary and unseasonable and such as hee may not admit however hee now offereth An Explanation of some of the answers given by IAMES Marques of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the concluding of a Peace in this Kingdome to the Propositions of His Maiesties Roman Catholicke subiects of Ireland with some further Concessions 1. Answ FOr the exception taken to the answer to the first Proposition although neyther the statute of 2. Eliz. c. 1. nor any other statute of force in this kingdome doe impose any mulct or penalty for saying singing or hearing Masse or keeping a Roman Catholicke priest in their houses yet his Majesty for the further satisfaction of his said Roman Catholicke subjects in any doubt or scruple that may arise upon the construction of any of the said statutes which may disquiet their mindes is graciously pleased that a declaration of the law as unto that point be prepared and published And his Majesty is likewise graciously pleased to suspend the high Commission Court And that as the oath of supremacie hath not beene imposed upon any of them of late times upon the suing of Liveries so they shall for the time to come be admitted to sue their Liveries upon taking the oath by his Majesties directions in that case provided which being added to the answers to the eight proposition by which his Majesty hath declared that they shall receive such markes of his favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest his Majesties good acceptance and regarde of them may for the present aboundantly satisfie his said subjects And for the repeale of any of the acts intended by the said proposition his Majestie will further advise 2. Answ For the exception taken to the word new Parliament in the answer to the second proposition Whereas a free Parliament was propounded The said Lord Marquesse declares that the said new Parliament is to bee as free as by the lawes and statutes of this kingdome any parliament to bee held in this kingdome ought to be yet so as no interpretation be from thence made that there should bee any proceeding in the said parliament in any particular contrary
THE PROPOSITIONS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICKS OF IRELAND Presented by their Commissioners to His Sacred Majestie in April M. DC XLIV As also the Answer of the Agents for the Protestants of Ireland made to the said Propositions and their Petition and Propositions to His Majesty with His Majesties answer to the Propositions of the said Roman Catholicks And the answe◠of IAMES Marquesse of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the treatie and concluding of a Peace in the Kingdome of Ireland to the said Propositions 〈…〉 Waterford by Thomas Bourke Printer to the Confederate 〈…〉 Catholicks of Ireland M. DC XLIV TO THE READER WHereas the Supreme Councell of the Confederate Catholicks of Ireland imployed severall persons of qualitie into England authorized by Commission to supplicate his Majestie for redresse of the grievances of the said Catholicks and to settle a firme peace in Church and Commonwealth who having then for some time attended His Majestie to that purpose His Majesties good intentions to the peace of this Kingdome was for that present diverted by the false Informations of persons ill affected to this Nation whose suggestions happened to be then listned unto and answers accordingly given So as the said Commissioners returned into this Kingdome with hopes onely that His Majestie might in time bee better possessed of the power and affections of His Catholicke subjects here and of the use to be made thereof His Majestie being pleased notwithstanding the said informations to give Commission to the Lord Marques of Ormond Lieutenant Generall of Ireland for the continuance and concluding of the treatre begun before His Majestie In pursuance of which Commission the said Catholicks presented their propositions the same in substance they first presented to His Majestie in Oxford unto which some answers were made which being no way satisfactorie were replied unto and so the matter proceeded to a long dispute debate wherein many difficulties occurring the treatie was adjourned and so continues till the tenth of Ianuary next by which time His Majesties resolution upon the whole matter represented unto him is expressed a firme lasting peace hoped for This being the state the treatie is in at this time it may be conceived improper to give an account of the particular passages which are but overtures and alterable as it is well hoped and little to bee doubted but that in this they will bee yet some to breed distraction and mistrusts among the said Confederates or blinded with private and ambitious ends and impatient of any delay have been so malicious or mistaken as to traduce the said Confederate Catholicks and their Commissioners affirming they might have obtained Conditions satisfactorie to any reasonable people but that they rejected the same To satisfie therefore all indifferent Iudgements that may enter into the consideration of the said proceedings and to make it manifest that the whole scope of the said Catholicks was and is for the freedome of the Nation in their Religion Estates and Liberties with out trenching upon His Majesties rights or other end and that it may appeare how farre the proceedings hitherto come short of that It was thought necessary to expose those proceedings to publicke view by putting them to the presse so to cast off those aspersions that ignorant or malicious persons endeavour to cast upon them having yet neverthelesse assured hopes that His Majesty will in time afford remedies to these Complaints and with a gracious eye looke upon the sufferings of this afflicted nation The propositions of the Roman Catholicks of Ireland humbly presented unto His Sacred Majestie in pursueance of their Remonstrance of grievances and to bee annexed to the said Remonstrance 1. THat all Acts made against the professors of the Roman Catholicke Faith whereby any restrainte penaltie mulct or incapacitie may bee layed upon any Roman Catholicke within the Kingdome of Ireland may bee repealed and the said Catholicks to be allowed the freedome of the Roman Catholicke Religion 2. That your Majestie will bee pleased to call a free Parliament in the said Kingdome to bee held and continued as in the said Remonstrance is expressed and the statute of the tenth yeare of King Henry the seventh called Poynings act and all acts explayning or enlarging the same be suspended during that parliament for the speedy settlement of the present affaires and the repeale thereof to bee there further considered of 3. That all acts and ordinances made and passed in the now pretended parliament in that Kingdome since the seventh day of August 1641. be cleerely annulled and declared voyd and taken of the file 4. That all Indictments Attainders Outlawries in the Kings Bench or elsewhere since the said seventh day of August 1641. And all letters pattents grants leases custodiums bonds recognizances and all other records act or acts depending thereupon or in prejudice of the said Catholicks or any of them bee taken off the files annulled and declared void first by your Majesties publicke Proclamation and after by act to be passed in the said free Parliament 5. That inasmuch as under collour of such outlawries and attainders debts due unto the said Catholickes have been granted levyed or disposed of and of the other side that debts due upon the said Catholicks to those of the adverse partie have been levied and disposed to publicke use that therefore all debts be by act of Parliament mutually released or all to stand in statu Quo. notwithstanding any grant or disposition 6. That the late offices taken or found upon fayned or old titles since the yeare 1634. to intitle Your Majestie to severall Countreyes in Connaght Thomond and in the Counties of Tipperarie Lymmericke Kilkenny and VVickloe be vacated taken off the file the possessors setled secured in their ancient estates by act of Parliament And that the like act of limittation of your Majesties titles for the securitie of the estates of your subjects of that Kingdome be passed in the said parliament as was enacted in the one and twenty yeare of his late Majesties raigne in this Kingdome 7. That all Marckes of incapacitie imposed upon the natives of that Kingdome to purchase or acquire lands leases offices or hereditaments be taken away by act of parliament and the same to extend to the securing of purchases leases or grants already made And that for the education of youth an act be passed in the next parliament for the erecting of one or more Inns of Court Vniversities free and common schooles 8. That the offices and places of command honour profit and trust within that Kingdome be conferred upon Roman Catholicks natives in equalitie and indifferencie with your Majesties other subjects 9. That the insupportable oppression of your subjects by reason of the Court of Wards and respit of homage be taken away and a certaine revenue in lieu thereof setled upon your Majestie without diminution of your Majesties profit 10. That no Lord not estated in that Kingdome or estated and not resident shall have
your Majesties service to be taken into consideration as first with regarde of the statutes made in the present Parliament of England Secondly the necessarie encrease of your revenue decayed by the present rebellion Thirdly the abolishing of the evill custome of the Irish and preservation of Religion Lawes and government there Fourthly the satisfaction of your protestants subjects losses in some measure Fiftly the arrears of your Majesties Army and other debts contracted for that war for preservation of that Kingdome to your Majestie Sixtly the bringing in of more Brittish on the plantations Seventhly the building of some walled Townes in remote and desolate places for the securitie of that kingdome and your good subjects there Eightly the taking of the Natives from their former dependencie on their chiefetaynes who usurped an absolute power on them to the diminution of your Regall power and to the oppression of the inferiour 7. This we conceive concerneth some of the late plantations and no other part of that Kingdome and that the restitution herein mentioned is found to bee of great use especially for the indifferencie of tryalls strength of the government and for trade and trafficke and we humbly conceive that if other plantations shall not proceede for the setling and securing of that Kingdome that no restraint be made of papists purchasing or buying of the protestants out of their former platations where they were prudently planted though now cast out of their estates by the late rebellion unable to plant the same againe for want of meanes and therefore probably upon easy tearmes will part with their estates to the Confederates That those plantations will be destroyed to the great prejudice of your Maiesties service and endangering of the safety of that Kingdome Touching bearing of offices we humbly conceive that their non-conformitie to the lawes and statutes of that Realme is the onely marke of incapacity imposed upon them And wee humbly conceive that they ought not to expect to be more capable there then the English Natives are here in England in like case For Schooles in Ireland there are divers setled in all parts of that Kingdome already by the Lawes and statutes of that Realme And if any person well affected shall erect and endow any more schools there at their owne charges So that the Schoole-masters and schollers may be governed according to the lawes custome and orders of England and the best of free scholes here Wee cannot apprehend any iust exceptions thereunto but touching Vniversities and Innes-of-Court We humbly conceive that this part of the proposition savoureth of some desire to become independent upon England or to make a separation in the Religion and lawes of the kingdome which can never be truly happy but in the good unitie of both in the true protestant religion and in the lawes of England For as for matter of charge such of the Natives as are desirous to breede their sonnes for learning in divinitie can be well content to send them to the Vniversities of Lovain Doway and other places in forayne Kingdomes and for Civill law or Physicke to Padua other places which drawes a great treasure yearely out of your Majesties Dominions but will send few or none of them to Oxford or Cambridge where they might as cheaply be brought up and become as learned Which course we conceive is holden out of their pride and disaffection towards this Kingdome and the true Religion here professed And for the lawes of the land which are for the Common-lawes agreeable to England so for the greatest part of the statutes the Innes of Courts in England are sufficient and the protestants come thither without grudging And it is a meanes to civilize them after the English customes to make them familiar and in love with the language and Nation to preserve law in the puritie when the professors of it shall draw of one originall fountaine and see the manner of the practise of it in the same great Channell where his Majesties Courts of Iustice of England doe flow cleerely Whereas by separations of the Kingdomes in the place of their principall instruction where their foundations in being are to be layd a degenerate corruption in Religion and Iustice may happily be introduced and spred with much more difficultie to be corrected and restrayned afterwards by any discipline to be used in Ireland or punishments there to be inflicted for departing from the true grounds of things that are best preserved in unitie when they grow out of the same roote then if such Vniversities and Innes of Court as are proposed should be granted All which wee humbly submit to your Majesties most pious and prudent Consideration and Iudgement 8. We humbly conceive that the Roman Catholicks Natives in Ireland may have the like offices and places as the Roman Catholickes Natives of England here have and not otherwise Howbeit we conceive that in the generallity they have not deserved somuch by their late rebellion Therefore we see not why they should be endowed with any new or further capacity or priviledges then they have by the Lawes and statutes now in force in that Kingdome 9. Wee know no oppression by reason of the Court of Wards and wee humbly conceive that the Court of wards is of great use for the raysing of your Majesties revenues the preservation of your Maiesties Tennures and chiefly the education of the Gentry in the protestant Religion and civilitie of learning and good manners who otherwise would bee brought up in ignorance barbarisme their estats be ruyned by their kindred and friends and continue their dependance on the chiefe Lords to the great preiudice of your Maiesties service and protestant subiects and there being no colour of exception to your Maiesties iust Title to wardships we know not why the taking away of Court concerning the same should be so pressed unlesse it be to prevent the education of the Lords and Gentry that fall-wards in the protestant religion For that part of this proposition which concernes respit of homage we humbly conceive it reasonable that some way may be setled for this if it stands with your Maiesties good pleasure without preiudice to your Maiesty or your protestant subiects 10. Wee humbly conceive that in the yeare 1641. by the graces which your Majestie then granted to your subjects of Ireland the matter of this proposition was in a faire way regulated by your utter abolishing of blancke proxies limitting Lords present and attending in the Parliament of Ireland that no one of them should be capable of more proxies then two and prescribing the Peeres of that Kingdome not there resident to purchase fitting proportions of land in Ireland within five yeares from the last of Iuly 1641. or else to loose votes till they should make such purchase which purchase by reason of the troubles happening in that Kingdome which have continued for two yeares and a halfe have not peradventure yet beene made And therefore
Hugh Ionne Io. Leight Andr Brereton Io Clerke Roger Holland Io. Sâ—erring Mar. Higginson Io. VValler Iohauth Holt. Edw. Fisher Capt. Tho. Lewton Tho. Mâ—nley Ios Holt. Io. Câ—mberlege And. Cumble Geo. Chibaldist Io. Roâ— Fra Barser Nath. Stougâ—â—â—â— VVill. Bodingâ—on And. â—â—â—â—g Edw. Barten Io. Pinrose VVill Richardson Robert Masson VVilliam Heward Ia. VVoodcocke And. VVatson Robert Iones VVilliam Tedder And. Iones Robert Boyer VVilliam Medcalfe Iona. Costie VVilliam Sands Natha Poster Io. Field VValter Fraster His Majesties answer to the propositions of the Roman Catholicks of Ireland COncerning any thing in Religion his Majesties answer is That as the Lawes against those of the Romish Religion within that his Kingdome of Ireland have never been executed with any rigour or severity So if such his subjects shall by returning to their duty and loyalty merit his Majesties favour and protection they shall not for the future have cause to complaine that lesle moderation is used towards them then hath been in the most favorable of Queene Elizabeth and King Iames his times Provided that under pretence of Conscience they doe not stirre up sedition but live quietly and peaceably according to their Allegiance 2. Touching the calling a free Parliament by which his Majestie supposes the proposers intend a new Parliament his Majestie sayes he could wish that all the particulars might bee fully agreed on and ratified this Parliament his Majestie well understanding that his Protestant subjects may bee in farre greater danger in a new Parliament then the proposers and their Party can bee in this his Majestie being willing to give them any security that can bee desired against their apprehensions however since some objections and doubts are raised of the legall continuance of this Parliament since the death of the Lord Deputy VVansford and by the late arrivall of his Majesties Commission after the day of meeting upon the prorogation though those doubts may bee easily solved his Majestie is content to call a new Parliament upon condition that all particulars bee first agreed on and the Acts to be passed bee first transmitted according to custome for his Majestie will by no meanes consent the suspension of Poynings Act and the proposers giving his Majestie security that there shall be no attempt in that Parliament to passe any other Act then what is agreed on first transmitted or to bring any other prejudice to any of his Majesties Protestant subjects there 3. His Majestie neither can nor will declare Acts in themselves lawfull to bee voyd but is content that neither the Proposers nor their party shall suffer any pejudice by any Acts or Ordinances passed since the time in that proposition mentioned by reason of this commotion And for that end shall give his full concurrence 4. The matters of the foure five and sixteenth Propositions are to bee digested into an Act of Oblivion in which his Majestie will admit any Clauses to enlarge his mercy but will not by declaring Indictments legally taken regularly prosecuted to be voyd give any countenance to or make any excuse for the present Rebellion which would be a great prejudice to truth and to the future security of that Kingdome And therefore His Majestie is content to grant a full and generall Pardon to all persons whatsoever within that his Kingdome except for all Treasons Rebellion or other crimes whatsoever growing or arising from or by reason of the said Rebellion will likewise give his consent to such an Act of Oblivion as shall be prepared transmitted to him by the advise of his Lord Lieutenant Councell of Ireland who are fittest to consider in what state debts are to bee left and particular actions and remedies to bee waved in which His Majestie for the peace of the Kingdome will bee content to release what concernes himselfe 6. When all particulars shall bee agreed on and faithfully executed on the parts of the Proposers his Majestie expecting a just acknowledgement of his bountie as well knowing that he parts with very much to which hee hath a legall and undoubted title is content to release and quit his right to all such lands in the Counties mentioned except within the Countyes of Kilkenny and Wickloe upon the tearmes formerly assented by his Majestie in his Answer to the grievanees in the seventeenth yeare of his Raigne and will consent to such an Act of limitations as is desired 7. When all other things shall bee concluded his Majestie will consent to an Act for the taking away any incapacity as Natives either to lands or offices if any such there bee And will willingly consent to the erecting an Innes of Court Vniversity or free-schooles provided that they bee governed by such Statutes and Orders as His Majestie shall approve and agreable to the Custome of this Kingdome 8. Such of His Majesties subjects of the Romish Religion within that Kingdome as shall manifest their dutie and Affection to His Majestie shall receive such marks of His Majesties favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest His Majesties good acceptance and regard of them 9. His Majestie will take care that his good subjects of that Kingdome shall not be oppressed by his Court of Wards and if oppressions of that kind have been upon good and due information His Majestie will cause Iustice to be done for the time past and for the future will prevent the like by Instructions But for the taking away of that Court His Majestie can make no answer till the particulars for his satisfaction bee set downe and presented to him 10. His Majestie consented as farre as is fit for him in this Point in his answer to the five and twentieth grievance in the seventeenth yeare of his Raigne the which he is still willing shall bee enacted looking forward still to five yeares to begin after the peace concluded 11. His Majestie conceives the substance of this Proposition which concernes the fundamentall Rights of both Kingdomes fit to bee referred to the free debate and expostulation of the two parliaments when it shall please God that they may freely and safely sit His Majestie being so equally concerned in the priviledges of either that hee will take care to the utmost of his power that they shall both conteine themselves within their proper limitts his Majestie being the Head and equally interessed in the Rights of both parliaments 12. This is sufficiently provided for in his Majesties Answer to the tenth grievance which hee is content shall passe 13. Since it appeares by long experience that these Lawes have not produced that good effect for which they were made his Majestie was graciously pleased by his late Graces that those Statutes should bee repealed save onely for woolls and woollfells and will observe the same resolution And a Booke of rates shall bee setled by an indifferent Committee 14. His Majestie doth not admit that the long continuance of the Chiefe Governor of that Kingdome in that place hath been an occasion of much
tyranny and oppression or that any tyranny or oppression hath been exercised upon his subjects in that Kingdome However his Maiestie will take care that such Governors shall not continue longer in chose places then hee shall find for the good of his people there and is content that they shall bee inhibited to make any purchase other then by lease for the provision of their Houses during the space of their Goverment in such manner as is desired 15. This proposition is to be explayned and some particular wayes to bee proposed to his Maiestie for the doing thereof And then his Maiestie upon due consideration of the safety and security of his Protestant Subiects will returne his Answer 16. Answered in the fourth and fifth 17. Such persons who shall be excepted out of the Act of Oblivion shall bee tryed by the knowne Lawes of the Land The Answer of IAMES Marques of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the treaty and concluding of a Peace in this Kingdome for and in the name and behalfe of His Majestie to the Propositions of His Roman Catholicke subjects of Ireland VVHen all the particular demands made on the behalfe of his Majestie the Church and his Majesties Protestant subjects and their party shall be concluded his Maiestie will bee graciously pleased on his part to agree to the particulars hereafter expressed viz. 1. To the first proposition his Majestie will bee graciously pleased if his said Roman Catholicke subjects shall by their obedience and loyaltie merit his Majesties favour and protection that they shall not for the future have cause to complaine that lesse moderation is used towards them then hath been in the most favourable of Queene Elizabeth King Iames his times But his Maiestie for divers waighty considerations will further advise before hee consent to the repeale of any the Acts intended by the said Proposition 2. To the second his Majestie will bee graciously pleased to call a new Parliament upon condition that all particulars therein to bee passed by act of Parliament be first agreed on betweene us his Majesties Commissioner and Donogh Lord Viscount Muskery Alexandermac Donell and Nicholas Plunket Esquiers Sir Robert Talbot Baronet Dermot O Brien Patricke Darcy Geffrey Browne and Iohn Dillon Esquiers or any five or more of them who are deputed by his said Roman Catholicke subjects to treate with Vs about the same And the said Acts so agreed upon bee transmitted according to severall acts of parliament in that behalfe provided And that there shall be no attempt by his Majesties Roman Catholicke subjects in that parliament to passe any other act then what is agreed upon as aforesaid and first transmitted or to bring any other prejudice to any of his Maiesties protestant subiects in this kingdome And if any thing shall be attempted in the said parliament to the contrarie that then his Maiesties Lieutenant or other Chiefe Governor or Governors before whom the said parliament shall be holden shall forthwith after such attempt dissolve the said Parliament without expecting any further direction from his Majestie for the same But his Majestie for divers waightie considerations will bee further advised before that he doe consent to the suspension of Poynings Act. 3. To the third his Majestie will be graciously pleased that none of his said Roman Catholicke subjects shall suffer any prejudice by any Acts or Ordinances passed in this present Parliament since the time in the Proposition mentioned by reason of the present commotion but his Majestie cannot legally declare Acts or Ordinances made in Parliament which are in themselves lawfull to be voyde nor give warrant to take them off the file 4. To the fourth his Majestie cannot in course of Iustice by his Proclamation declare indictments attaintures out-lawries Letters-patents Grants Leases Bonds Recognizances or any other legall record to be voyde or taken off the file But his Majestie will be graciously pleased to grant a full and Generall pardon to all persons whatsoever excepting such as hereafter upon this treaty shal be thought fit to be left thereout for all Treasons rebellions and other crimes whatsoever growing and arising for or by reason of the same And will likewise give his consent that an act bee passed to that purpose in which his Majestie will admit any clauses to enlarge his mercy And his Majestie will be further graciously pleased to determine all custodiums which have beene granted since the 22. of October 1641. 5. To the fift proposition his Majesty cannot in Iustice consent to the taking away of any debts due to his subjects who have committed no offence which might occasion the forfeyture thereof But for such debts as have accrued unto his Majestie by the attaynture or fugacie of any of his Majesties Roman Catholicke subjects since the 23. of October 1641. His Majestie will be graciously pleased to remit so many of them as have not beeen payed into his Majesties Exchequer or received otherwise to his Maiesties use or by his appointment 6. To the sixt proposition his Maiesty will be graciously pleased to release and quite his right to all such lands in the said proposition mentioned except within the Counties of Kilkenny and Wickloe upon the Termes formerly assented unto by his Maiestie in his answer to the grievances in the 17. yeare of his raigne and will consent to such an act of limitation as is desired 7. To the seventh his Maiesty will be graciously pleased to consent to an act for the taking away any incapacitie as Natives eyther to lands or offices if any such there be and will willingly consent to the erecting of an Innes of Court Vniversitity or free-schooles Provided that they be governed by such statutes rules and orders as his Maiesty shall approve and be agreable to the Customes of England 8. To the eight his Maiesty will be graciously pleased that such of his Maiesties said subiects within this kingdome as shall manifest their dutie and affection to his Maiesty shall receive such markes of his Maiesties favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest his Maiesties good acceptance and regarde of them 9. To the ninth proposition his Maiestie will take care that his good subiects of this kingdome shall not be oppressed by his Court of Wards And if oppressions of that kinde have beene upon good and due information his Maiesty will cause Iustice to be done for the time past and for the future will prevent the like by instructions But for the taking away of that Court his Majesty can make no answer till the particulars for his satisfaction bee set downe and presented unto him 10. To the tenth Proposition his Majestie consented as farre as is fit for him in this point in his answer to the 25 grievance in the seventeenth yeare of his raigne the which hee is still willing shal be enacted looking forwards still to five yeares to begin after the peace concluded 11. To the eleventh Proposition his Majesty conceives the substance
their oath declared by the statute of 18. Elizab. will not stop or suspend the proceedings of the Court for the great Seale privy seale or his Maiesties letters writs or commandements And your Lordship may please to observe that by long experience it is manifest that since the making of those Lawes being foure-score and odde yeares the penalties or forfeytures in them expressed have not beene so prevalent as to draw them the said Catholickes from the Religion professed by them and their Ancestors and no advantage did in so long a tract of time accrue to the Crowne by those statutes And seeing his Maiesty is content that moderation should be used towards the said Catholickes to what purpose should the said penall lawes be continued in force whereas the continuation thereof can produce no other effect then jealousies and feares in the mindes of the people A free Parliament is propounded and a new Parliament is meaned Reasons against the 2. Answer in this answer to be granted It is true that Parliaments in their Essence ought to be free yet some examples shewing the contrary in this kingdome and a clause in the answer viz. That the Parliament shall be dissolved upon an attempt onely of propounding any other matter then shall be agreed upon by the Articles of Peace which attempt may bee purposely done by some averse to peace to dissolve a Parliament and the taking away of the said clause attempt doth induce the said Catholickes to supplicate the inserting of a free Parliament And that all the acts to be concluded on by the treaty may not be transmitted into England in regarde the substance of that which will bee passed as acts without transmission are to be inserted in the articles of peace which none other act of Parliament is to passe upon the suspension of Poynings act without transmission according to the usuall manner wherefore the said suspension can bring no manner of prejudice upon his Majestie or the publicke service and that by the granting thereof the peoples mindes will be much quieted The said Catholicks do therfore humbly desire that the said act be suspended as is by them propounded If the now pretended Parliament or eyther of the houses of Parliament made any Orders or Ordinances to the prejudice of the said Reasons against the 3. Answer Catholicks the same Parliament may vacate them take them off the file And it is not to be presumed that any member of Parliament is so litle affected to the peace or quiet of the kingdome that he will give opposition to the third proposition or to his Maiesties direction or to your Lordships request in that behalfe And the said Catholickes conceive it necessary in point of honour and reputation that no Order or Ordinance to their prejudice may remayne of Record in Parliament And if no such Order or Ordinance bee the proposition can hardly be denied wherefore it is humbly desired that the answer may Reasons against the 4. Answer be more full and satisfactory Vpon consideration of the fourth proposition of the reasons for the same it is humbly desired this answer be enlarged to the greater advantage of the said Catholickes then is expressed and although his Majesty cannot avoyde Recordes of this nature by Proclamation yet when his Majesty is informed that those indictments and outlawries were done of designe to extirpate a Nation and that in the proceedings it will appeare and here was practised his Majesties proclamation in a case of this generall concernment declaring his dislike of such proceedings will be of great consequence and his direction to the Parliament to that effect will no doubt accomplish the desire of the said Catholicks contained in this Proposition and his Royall directions to have the Procurers Actors and Plotters of and in the said indictments and outlawries and the whole proceedings questioned and the designe and practise being discovered and proved then the said records and all matters depending hereupon ought in law and justice to bee vacated and taken off the file and the pardon in the answer mentioned restores neither blood nor estate as it is there set downe and admitting the pardon were by Parliament it will bee of absolute necessitie to avoid all grants letter-patents leases and other acts letters or promises made to the prejudice of the persons attainted and to restore them to their blood and estate in which act a clause condemning the manner of the procuring of the said indictements and outlawries is thought necessary to bee inserted and the exception mentioned in the said answer is humbly desired by the said Catholicks to bee taken off and the clause viz. His Majesty will enlarge his mercy to be made more particular This answer is humby desired to bee made equall to all parties one Reasons against the 5. Answer way or other as it is propounded and that Catholicks should pay debts due upon them and loose the debts due unto them is conceived not to bee equall By his Majesties graces of the fourth yeare of his raigne all the Reasons against the 6. Answer estates in the Province of Conaght and Countie of Clare in pursuance of the Indentures of composition made by the late Queene Elizabeth for great and valuable considerations with the Lords and Gentrie of the said Province and Countie and of the grants and promises of the late King Iames of happy memorie were to bee confirmed and made good by act of Parliament the statute of limitation was then to bee passed which extended to all estates in the Kingdome therefore no greater rent ought to bee reserved upon the lands in the said Province or Countie nor upon the lands in the Counties of Tiperarie and Lyndak then was answeared to his Majestie in the said fourth yeare of his Majesties raigne And the great offices intituling his Majestie unto the before mentioned lands and to many mens estates in the County of Wickloe and to the territorie of Idough in the Countie of Kilkenny were enforced by an high hand the free-holders thereof being in possession of their repective estates then and for many ages before without interruption or question It is therefore humbly desired that those offices bee vacated and taken off the file by his Majesties gracious directions his highnes or his patentees being therein onely concerned as to the title found by those offices And that the statute and limitation may bee here enacted with a retrospect to the fourth yeare of his Majesties raigne at which time it was promised by his Majesty to have been passed as an act in this Kingdome and if it had beene so done the said offices had not been found And that the case of the Countie of Wickloe and the Countie of kilkenny meriting equall justice and favour with the rest ought not to be distinguished from them The clause in the said answer concerning Innes of Court and free-schooles as it is expressed in the answer will debarre Roman Catholicks Reasons against part of the 7 Answer so long as they are of that Religion from attaining to the knowledge of the lawes of the land or any other learning within this Kingdome This answer is conceived not to be satisfactorie and to generall and particular instances of the markes of his Majesties favour towards Reasons against the 8 Answer the â—aid Catholicks is humbly desired The reasons against this answer in all the parts thereof are the same that are urged for the ninth Proposition and upon consideration of To the 9. Answer those reasons the answer is humbly desired to be enlarged His Maiesties answer made to the 25. grievance in the 17. yeare of To the 10. Answer his Majesties raigne gives five yeares time to the unestated Lords to acquire estates in this Kingdome It is therefore humbly desired that the answer may be more satisfactory on consideration of the reasons for the tenth proposition and the state of affaires is so altered since that time that upon the now intended generall settlement more circumspection and warines is to be used then at any time before The said Catholicks doe conceive and affirme in all cleerenes that the Parliament of Ireland is independent of the Parliament of England To the 11. Answer without which independency this realme could be no Kingdome nor any Parliaments here necessary nor any subject of this Kingdome sure of his estate life or liberty other then at the will and pleasure of a Parliament wherein neither Lords Knights nor Burgesses of this Kingdome have place or vote and which vowed the destruction of all or most of this nation and unwarrantably assumed the power to dispose of their estates by the Statutes of subscription to malignants and Hollanders To draw this into any debate or question might prove of most dangerous consequence to this nation And yet a declaration of the Parliament here and an act as in the proposition is set down is humbly desired in regarde his Maiesty was drawne to give the Royall assent to the acts of subscription This answer is humbly desired to be enlarged according to the reasons The 12. Answer for the twelfth proposition The rates of staple commodities are humbly desired to be moderated by Commissioners to be appointed by both houses of Parliament The 13. Answer The reasons for the not continuance of the chiefe governor above three yeares are the same urged for the fourteenth proposition The 14. Answer The reasons for the erecting and continuance of trayned Bands are the same that are urged for the fifteenth proposition The 15. Answer This answer is humbly desired to be enlarged and the act of oblivion to extend to goods taken of eyther side although the Roman Catholickes suffered much more then all others in this warre and The 16. Answer your Lordship will consider the reasons for this proposition It is of necessitie the tryall of the persons to be excepted be by parliament The 17. Answer otherwise the tryall cannot be indifferent in this case Wee desire notwithstanding those reasons to be admitted to shew such further and other reasons and to adde herevnto what wee shal thinke fit touching the matter wherein the answers are short or not satisfactory FINIS