Selected quad for the lemma: parliament_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
parliament_n	king_n	kingdom_n	treaty_n	2,512	5	9.3701	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87881	The observator observed, or, Animadversions upon observations on the history of King Charles wherein that history is vindicated, partly illustrated, and severall other things tending to the rectification of some publique mistakes, are inserted : to which is added, at the latter end, the observators rejoinder.	L'Estrange, Hamon, 1605-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing L1188A; ESTC R179464	41,478	51

And whereas the Observator is become a stout advocate for the Spanish faith in the point both of the match and the Pallatinate had he perused the letter of King Philip the third to the Conde of Olivares extant in the last Cabala and recited in Parliament he might there have found that neither was sincerely intended but meerly delayes sought for by the Spaniard to accomplish his perfidious ends And as for Bristowes letter insisted upon by the Observator it signifyeth nothing to the vindication of the Spanish faith that Earl being articled against in Parliament for abusing both the King and Prince with a false perswasion of Spains sincerity Page 12. Fol. 4. Which being new and the businesse propounded it was entertain'd with an unanimous consent and a motion made that an Ambassador should be sent over to negotiate that Treaty I somewhat doubt of your intelligence the marriage of the Prince containing such a branch of the Royal Prerogative as King James was not likely to communicate with his Houses of Parliament For when he was Petitioned by both Houses not long before that for the avoyding of some dangers which did seem to threaten the whole Kingdom he would marry the Prince to a Lady of the Protestant Religion he entertain'd the motion with no small disdain Answer The Logick of the Observator The King was angry when the Parliament moved him concerning the mariage of the Prince Ergo which is in English therefore he would not communicate with them in one of his own liking Again it was no more lessening of his Prerogative to communicate with them in the entrance into then in the breach of a Treaty of that nature as he did in that of Spain which was the main businesse debated in the Parliament 21. Jac. Page 13. Ibid. In the stile of the Court he went for Great Britaines Solomon That he was Great Solomon that is to say either the wisest man or wisest King of the British Nation I am not Courtier enough to defend or say It is true indeed that he much pleased himself with boasting of his King-Craft but I have heard many wise men say that they could never find what that King-Craft was Answer The Observator here falls foul upon King James inveighing against and withal detracting from his King-Craft Pitty it is his Observations came so tarde into the world that Squire Sanderson took no notice of them in this particular who would else have taught him either more wit or manners Page 14. Fol. 5. A stout adversary he was to the Arminians and Semipelagians whom he call'd as Prosper before him the enemies of Gods grace In this short Sentence there are many things to be considered 1. What these Arminians were which our Author speaks of 2. Whether they were the enemies of Gods grace or not 3. What the Reason was why King James shew'd himself so great an adversary to them Answer In the persuance of these three particulars the Observator spends not lesse then 10. pages wherein though I am very little concerned yet I shall take the liberty to observe these few things First he saith St. Augustines zeal against the Pelagian heresy transported him into inconvenient expressions It were a very proper work for this Observator to instance to us those inconvenient expressions and to undertake the confutation of him as he is presented to the world by Jansenius Secondly he imputeth to them of Calvins way this opinion that a man is forcibly drawn and irresistibly with the cords of grace in the work of conversion Let him produce the men who and where they say it They take away indeed an actual resistance of the will as inconsistent simul semel with efficacious grace but none I think assert this irresistibility the Observator mentioneth Nor is this all but they hold also saith he that man contributeth nothing to his own eternity A thing I am confident never declared in terminis by any but seeing the man seems to account it as one of their errours I would gladly learn and have the Observator explain this Metaphysical whimwham how Eternity for so he saith not Salvation can recipere majus minus receive either augmentation or diminution from man Lastly he endeavoureth to shew that King James was much governed by Doctor Mountague Bishop of Winchester who being of a contrary perswasion put him upon many harsh and severe expressions against those poor men But this Mountague being dead he began to shew himself more favourable unto those opinions especially upon the comming out of a book of another Mountague then Prebend of Windsor whose judgment in those points he liked very wel A thing most unlikely for in Theological controversies it is well known King James was able enough to go alone needed not like a child be led up and down by the hanging sleeves from one opinion to the other by either the one or the other And whereas Mr. Mountague is made the man who first reformed King James his judgement I offer it to consideration how probably it is asserted when An. 1628. this Mr. Mountague then Bishop together with Dr. Neal Bishop of Winchester being Remonstrated to the King as abetters of those Tenets and the King declaring dislike of those Novelties both he and the other Bishop with tears in their eyes protesting they hated those opinions and before his Majesty and his Councel on their knees renounced them So Sr. Humphrey Mildmay averred in open Parliament 30 Careli nomine contradicente No one neer the Chair contradicting Page 25. Fil. 6. The Kings Corps on the 4th of May was conveyed to Westminster and there inhumed c. Our Author tells us in the end of his Preface what a special care he hath of his temporalitie and yet he failes us here in the first beginning For neither was the body of the King interred on the 4th of May not the letters of procuration kept undelivered until the 8th nor the Marriage Celebrated after the Funeral of the King For upon Sunday May the first c. Answer That the 4th of May was put for the 7th is confest to be a mistake and it must be either in the Printer or a meer clip of my pen for that I intended it so I have these reasons to perswade the contrary First all my informations not one and four they were dissenting fixt the Kings interment on the 7th and I were a mad Historian to vary in so impertinent a matter from those informations Secondly my mentioning that that solemnity would be past May the 8th may probably imply I intended to assign the 7th for it for else the 5th day had been more proper But this is not all I am mistaken also in the celebration of the marriage which though at first designed to be on the 8th as I am able in fallibly to demonstrate was as I am now informed on the first of May as we account So that two errours are in point

of that War by introducing the Liturgy amongst them Sc. spe quidem laudabili eventu verò pessimo with a good intent but exceeding ill successe why so Hinc siquidem c. For from hence proceeded Tragedies Tumults War and Invasion Now that War which an Arch-Bishop occasion'd and which was entred into for maintaining that Hierarchy may I hope without offence be called the Bishops War But here I am cut off the Observator telling us that Religion was but the vizard to disguise that businesse which covetousnesse and sacriledge had the greatest had in which he confirmes by this ensuing Narrative The King being engaged into a War with Spain and deserted by those who engaged him in it amongst other wayes of assistance was minded of a purpose his Father had of Revoking all Grants of Abby Lands c. which being vested in the Crown were by his Protectors in his Minority conferred on many of the Nobility and Gentry c. Being resolved upon the same course he intends a Parliament in that Kingdome appoints the Earle of Nidderdale to preside therein and armes him with instructions for passing of an Act of Revocation accordingly who being on his way as far as Barwick was there informed that all was in Tumult at Edinburgh that a rich coach which he had sent before to Dalkeith was cut in pieces the poore horses killed the people seeming onely sorry that they could not doe the like to the Earle himselfe Things being brought to this stand and the Parliament put off with a sine Die the King was put to a necessity of second Councels c. Answer That many had other then Religious designes there is little doubt they hoping to obtain that honour or wealth in a troubled State which they were consident they should never arrive at in a calm Now as concerning this Relation the Observator being a person to whom I am so much obliged I cannot but as part of requital of his own labours adde something for illustration of his Story and rectifying some mistakes thereof Know then Reader that this Earl of Nidderdale of whom the Observator speakes was then no Earle but the Lord Maxwell no more but so and the very Man or I am deceived mention'd in Habernfield Discovery For a rank Papist he was and Anno 1624. went to Rome to receive the Popes extraordinary Benediction which the Councel of Scotland hearing of they set out a Bar or Prescription against him for departing the Kingdome without leave Soon after King James dying he came over into England and by the Dukes favour whose Kinswoman he had married was Anno 1625. joyned in Commission with the Earle of Anandale Murrey for summoning a Parliament not for Revoking of Church and other lands formerly invested in the Crown but for contribution of monies and ships against the Dunkirkers and was designed to preside there with power to place and displace what Officers he pleased In Order and Pomp sutable to so great a Trust the Lord buyes him a Coach most radiant and richly gilded this he sends before him to Dalkeith The Councel of Scotland having early notice of this conspire to adhere and stick close together and to oppose his commission And the surer to frustrate the Lords designe they send to all the chief Towns informing them what was comming desiring they would send in the money with all expedition The Townes conformed instantly and all was done yea the very undoing and destruction of his glorious Coach before the Lord Maxwell came to Barwich and further he durst not go being informed his person so generally hated might be in great danger there but posted a main to the Court of England where finding the King cool in the businesse having had an account from the Councel of Scotland of al their proceedings advertised by them how displeasing a President that Lord was like to prove in respect of his Religion h the Duke gone to the Hague after him he goes and returnes with him into England The Duke and this Lord being come to Court possesse the King with strange insolences and affronts committed by the Councel of Scotland against his Regal power His Majesty in some indignation thereupon sends for them to come forthwith and answer what he had to object against them up they come to court and being by his Majesty chidden for their miscarriages they defying this Lord openly in his Majesties presence spake withal bug words not very loyal 't is confest whereat his Majesty told them then and not before he would make them restore all to the Crown which they had taken from it in his Fathers Minority This and somewhat more my information from a credible hand and of a date agreeable to the story what succeeded hereupon the Observator tells you Page 163. Fol. 161. The King first named eight Bishops then those eight Bishops those eight Noble men those Noble men chose so many Barons and those the like number of Burgesses c. Observator Not altogether so as our Author hath it for the Bishops and Noble men together chose eight Commissioners for the Sheriffdomes and as many for the Corporations Answer My informer being a Person of such eminency of that Nation and so versed in the affairs of that Kingdome is I think more credible in this particular then a forreigner Page 171. Fol. 182. True it is he had too much and too long favoured the Romish Faction but as upon what account he favoured it is uncertain c. Our Author here acquits the Archbishop from the Popish faith but leaves him under a suspition of favouring the Popish faction which in a man who cannot tell upon what account he favoured it may be thought uncharitable But both King James and King Charles in several Declarations give this Reason for it c. Answer It is I think no uncharitable act to censure any man for what is professedly true no matter upon what account to condemn a man for what is but a bare surmise may be uncharitable And that the Archbishop favoured the Popish faction our Observator doth not only grant but endeavors to shew upon what account it was saying Both King James and King Charles in several Declarations and in their several Answers to Parliament Petitions give this reason for it for it for what for the Archbishops favouring the Popish faction did ever any such thing ever enter into their thoughts as to declare what moved the Archbishop to favour the Romish faction I will not dwell upon this reason which the Observator would perswade us he had for it that is therefore to obtain like favours for such Protestants as lived in the Dominions of Popish Princes nor on what he might have had of keeping the ballance even between them and the Puritans But deliver what having heard formerly but upon dubious report I am I think certainly informed was the true cause thereof For being told by one that he had many an ill look from

of temporality here acknowledged Page 27. Fol. 7. From Canterbury his Majesty took Coach for Whitehall where the third day after his arival If our Author meaneth by this that their Majesties went in Coach but some part of the way only he should then have said so their Majesties passing no further then Graves end and from thence went by water in their Royal Barges c. Answer What I meant here any ordinary capacity may know which is able to discern the difference between the taking Coach to and for Whitehal Page 28. Fol. 8. For as a man is without a female consort so to a King without his supream councel an half-form'd steril thing Our Author in these words and the rest that follow maintains a Paradox most dangerous to supream Authority in making Parliaments so necessary to all Acts of State as if Kings could do nothing without their consent Answer I hope no man of any ingenuity will interpret me here or elsewhere an enemy to Monarchy or doth so much as question but that my Politique Descondants imply Statute-laws which I am of opinion no King of England hath power to make without common consent in Parliament Page 36. Fol. 17. And who i. e. Sr. Robert Mansel had an unquestionable right to the cheif conduct of this enterprise upon the Dukes default I believe not so Answer The Observators contrary beliefe is no evidence who was never made an Arbitrator in the businesse nor is it to others so strange a thing many men of wisedom and long experience still holding it for a Rule not onely in this particular but in all such as have vicariam potestatem a vicegerency Page 37. Fol. 20. And the first thing resolved upon was his solemn Initiation into Regality c. Observator As solemn as the King esteemed it yet our Author as it seems thinks more poorly of it for he censureth it for a vanity and thinks that kings are idle in it Are not all Christian Kings concerned in this c. Answer Why I call this Inauguration a serious vanity I declare the Reason because it conferreth no one dram of solid grandure to the Throne Kings being perfect Kings and qualifyed fully to all intents of Royality without it Will the Observator deny this if so let him consult the Lord Chancellor Egertons Postnati where he shall find the same asserted Yet lest some such Cavillers should quarrel at my inclination I added serious to it importing there was somewhat in it of solid signification Nor are all Christian Kings concerned in this His Catholick Majesty of Spain is not so much as touched who is not Crowned at all Page 39. Fol. Ibid. The Lord Keeper Williams was displaced and his place disposed of to Sr. Thomas Coventry Observator Our Author is here out again in his Temporalities for the great Seal was taken from him in October three months before The like mistake he proves in his Temporalities touching Bishop Laud whom he make Bishop of Bath and Welles who was then Bishop of St. Davids Answer The fall of Lord Keeper Williams I never say'd or intended to be in that moment of time to which that Paragraph relates but principally purposing to deliver therein his and others exclusion from the Parliament I mentioned also his fall as a thing preceding and no way concurring with the other So I was not out in this Temporality but if I was not I am afraid I know who is in affirming the great Seal was taken from him in October whereas he parted with it in August as Mr. Howel in his familiar letters Sect. 4. l. 23. relates But in making Dr. Laud Bishop of Bath and Welles at that time I confesse I was mistaken and this is grande nefas an horrid crime no doubt But this is not all for rather then he will not find another the Observator fetcheth a running leap to Fol. 96. where speaking of the Articles of Lambeth it is said they were first sent to the Synod of Dort and after that to the Convocation of Ireland a very strange Hysteron Proteron Setting the Convocation of Ireland after the Synod of Dort which preceded it three years and this is somewhat more then superannuating in his Temporalities Answer I write the History of the Reign of King Charles and then what I said of that superannuating was by me intended nor can it be rationally interpreted otherwaies of such things and actions as have reference to the sixteen years whereof I treat in that History not of such things as antecedently occurr'd are taken in by the By for I have oft occasion to mention things of preceding date as in the case of the Scottish Presbytery wherein though I am guided by the best informers I had yet will I not nor did ever so mean to warrant the truth thereof as to every particular year So it fareth in this errour in point of precedency between a Convocation and a Synod whereof to raise a question is only to strive de Lana Caprina and is at worst {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but a meer laps of memory a thing as obvious so withal excusable in the best Authors in point of circumstance in such an one especially as this wherein as being extravagant and out of the bounds of the Principal Narrative curiosity was lesse concerned And this is I hope enough to keep this errour within the bounds of my confidence of not superannuating were the errour infallibly mine own But if now after all this ranting triumph upon a melius inquirendum and better search the errour should prove none of mine would not the Observator think you Reader be wondrous blank at his Ridiculus Mus. Resort to and Review the place then tell me whither or not in your unbyast sense That Paragraph with the former and three subsequent to it do not or were not so intended to compleat the report of the Committee for Religion If so then my information hath wronged me or I my information Now for my wronging my information for I must walk circumspectly so many snares being laid to entrap me take this ingenuous account As for this report it being very long I thought fit to contract it into a narrow scantling not minding the words so I secured the substance And if I have fail'd in this if I have delivered any thing material which those Journals will not own let me suffer and to speak here to the purpose I appeal to Mr. Pym his speech Jan. the 27. in those Journals where my Coppy though erroneously I grant presents these Articles sent to Dort before Ireland so much in defence of my not superannuating in this particular Now I come to relieve my Preface out of the Observators Purgatory which hath tortured it sufficiently by saying I am confident I stand secure not only from substantial falshoods but from circumstantial also whereas this is his Preface not mine for male dum recitat the property is alter'd saith the

Epigrammatist my words being expresly these Confident I am I stand secure against any substantial falshoods and I hope now that 't is no more then I hope against circumstantial also {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Phy impudent Observator relish it as you please for cum dixeris quod vis audies quod non vis if you will take upon you thus garrire per angulos de mundo ferre sententiam to sneak behind noon and there give judgment upon all the world you must look when you fail and forge so fouly to be told of it to your teeth Page 41. Fol. 21. Who loved the Bishop if fame belies her not better then was fit Observator I think our Author with more prudence might have spared this note especially having Fame onely for the ground thereof which is so infamous an Historian Answer True it is Fame is not alwaies an infallible informer some Rumors being begot by Malice and nursed up by Credulity But yet true it is that she is sometimes a Publique Testimony and the wise Tacitus though he erects no Historical structures upon her bare affidavit yet doth present her in the like concernments for an Author of a second Admission How far she stands guilty of the crime of Defamation in reference to that Lady I list not to enquire Sure I am Mr. Wilsons Eunuchus ab utero was a clearer acquitance of that Ladies Innocence then any Argument by the Observator produced and I must tell him it seemeth not at all ridiculous to any one who had a more inward knowledge of that Prelates condition Mr. Wilson went indeed too far in the extraction of Bishop Williams his impotency which was not ab Utero from the womb but contracted after when he was a boy by falling upon a stake whereof the Observator may be further assured please he to enquire Page 48. Fol. 45. For the Lords found an antient Order that no Lords sedente Parliamento should have voice during that Session c. whereupon their suffrage was excluded Observator I somewhat doubt our Authors intelligence in this particular Answer Matters of fact must not be born down with I believe or I conceive if the Observator can from the records themselves demonstrate my errour I recant Page 51. Fol. 64. But all would not smooth the aspirity of this illegal Tax Observator The money which was then required of the Subject was not imposed in the way of Taxe but a Loan Answer Taxe in common speech is taken for a Compulsory Tribute imposed upon the Subject at a certain rate and such a Taxe this Loan was it being so cumpulsory as the refusers were by special instructions bound over to the Councel-board and imprison'd Page 55. Fol. 71. And a Commission granted by the King to five Bishops B. Laud being of the Quorum to execute Archi-Episcopal Jurisdiction The cause impulsive to it was a supposed irregularity c. Observator In this and the rest which followeth our Author runs himself into many errours First Bishop Laud was not of the Quorum no more then any of the other Secondly the irregularity supposed was not touched upon in the Commission Thirdly it was not his keeper but the Lord Zouches he kill'd in Bramhil Park c Answer What four errours at a clap that 's ill luck yet it was well they proved no more for he that made them four might have made them by the same art of juggling his words into my Text four hundred Let him keep his own suppositicious foystings at home my errours will not multiply so fast Now first where did I say Bishop Laud was of the Quorum more then any other of the Quorum I said he was meaning that of the five he was one Secondly where did I say that the Irregularity was expressed in the Cōmission as the impulsive to it I said it was the declared impulsive to the Commission and if it was not or these had been any other the Observator should have done well to have discover'd * Lastly whereas I said the Archbishop kill'd his Keeper Mr. Prynn in his Brevians of Archbishop Lauds life p. 11. and Aulives Coquinariae p. 130. expresly say it was his Keeper My last errour is the vouching Bishop Andrews for a vindicator of the Archbishops Regularity The Observator yeelds he did the Archbishop great service in this businesse but not for any opinion which he had that no irregularity was incurred by that misadventure Really Bishop Andrews is beholding to the Observator for this note the whole scope of that Commission was to inquire into the matter of fact and to resolve whither the Archbishop notwithstanding that mischance was Regular or not Regular This Bishop with Sir Henry Martin positively maintain'd that he was Regular still now if acting as a Commissioner from the King he would positively maintain one thing and in his own judgement adhere to the contrary as the Observator positively saith he did I say the more too blame he and the much more too blame the Observator if he doth in this particular belye him as 't is an hundred to one he doth But if the Bishop pronounced the Archbishop Regular though he thought otherwaies what was then the plot the Observator tells us it was to keep out Dr. Williams then Bishop of Lincoln and Lord Keeper c. who would have stept into that See So then it seems the question was not whither Regular or Irregular but who Abbot or Williams would make the best Archbishop This is fine stuffe pitty it is there is no more of the remnant Page 58. Fol. 73. They who lately were confind as Prisoners are now not only free but Petty Lords and Masters yea and Petty Kings Observator I cannot chose but marvail what enduced our Author unto this expression of making the Gentlemen assembled in the house of Commons not onely petty Lords but Petty Kings I have heard that King James once said in a time of Parliament but whither in way of jeer or otherwaies I am not able to say that there were now five hundred Kings beside himself Answer King James having said the like before it is no great marvail that a poor Subject should use the same expression considering what the Observators Court-Historian as he and Dr. Heilen usually stiles him saith Non ibi consistant exempla unde so it is not ubi by his favour caeperunt Examples are not restrained to their first Originals Nor did that expression import what these Gentlemen were de jure but what in reputation and what de facto and of this experience hath taught us they lately were not Petty Lords but Lords Paramount not Petty Kings but Superiours to Kings themselves Page 59. Fol. 75. Their Estates modestly estimated were able to buy the house of Peers the King excepted though an hundred and eighteen thrice over Observator Assuredly the Basonage were brought very low when the Gentlemen assembled in the house

the Commons upon that very account True said he I believe it but something must be done to please the Queen Page 172. Fol. Ibid. He tampered indeed to introduce some ceremonies bordering upon Superstition disused by us and abused by them from whence the Romanists collected such a disposition in him to their Tenets as they began to cry him up for their proselyte Observator In this Passage many things are to be considered First these Ceremonies are not here said to be superstitious but only to border upon superstition Secondly they are said to be dis-used which shews they were still in force Thirdly that these ceremonies had been abused by them of the Church of Rome and therefore might lawfully be restored for abusus non tollit usum Answer The first is confest The second is really a very dumb shew the word disused doth not at all imply that those ceremonies were in force but only that the Reformers of our Church observing how much they had been abused by the Church of Rome thought fit not to retain but lay aside the use of them Thirdly things abused may be lawfully restored to their Primitive use but then it must be by lawful Authority and in a lawful manner And the lawfulnesse of their restauration doth not import an expediency the Apostle putting such a difference between these two Page 176. Fol. 184. This Archbishops Predecessor penultine and last but one Observator He was not Dr. Whitgift but Dr. Bancroft Answer Confest as I said before a lapse of memory Ibid. Fol. Ibid. That is as a witty Gentleman said well a new Synod made of an old Convocation Observator This witty Gentleman here meant was Sr. Edward Deering Answer Here the Observator is wofully out for the witty Gentleman here meant was not Sr. Edward Deering no such words to be found in al his speeches but it was the Lord Digby his speech Nov. 12. 1640. and consequently this learned descant upon Sr. Edward is out of doores Page 179. Fol. Ibid. By a new Commission from the King No such matter verily the new Commission which he speaks of gave them no such power The writ by which they were first called and made to be a Convocation gave them power to sit and by that writ they were to sit as a Convocation til by another writ proceeding from the same Authority they were dissolved Answer I shall here deliver the true state of this businesse and then submit to the judgement of standers by Feb. the 20th 1639. the Convocation writs went forth to the several Archbishops of Canterbury and York for the Election of Clerks to the Convocation in which writs though there were these words ad tractandum consentiendum concludendum c. Yet could not the Convocation Treat consent or conclude any thing without a special Commission enabling them thereto This Commission therefore was issued out April the 15. two dayes after the Parliament sate and impowred the Houses of Convocation to alter amend and change the old Canons and to make new during the Parliament So that the Parliament being dissolved May the 5. by consequence this Commission expired by the Observators own concession but though the Commission was nulled it was a question still whither the Convocation was so also In the ensuing Parliament it was agreed that it was and if it was not yet was it beheld to have so little life in it as the King thought fit to re-animate it with a new Commission bearing date May 12 Authorizing it to make Canons c. And to continue during his Majesties pleasure Notwithstanding this Commission the Observator tells us That the King for satisfation of some scrupulous members of the lower house propounded the Question to some eminent Lawyers who resolved under their hands That the Convocation being called by the Kings writ was to continue until it were dissolved by the Kings writ notwithstanding the dissolution of the Parliament All which is very true but not all the truth for the light-fingerd Observator hath pocketed up the break-neck of the businesse suppressing what those Lawyers sent along with their opinions viz. that notwithstanding them they would advise the Convocation in making of Canons to be very sparing as I am enformed by a member of that Convocation and one no matter who as knowing and credible a person as that assembly had any Page 182. Fol. Ibid. Bishops and Presbyters in Scripture-Phrase being of equivalent import and denoting the self same persons without the least distinction Observator When our Author playes the Historian in relating of such things as are built upon good intelligence he doth it very well few better but when he comes to shew his opinion in matters of controversie he doth it very ill none worse For first I do not believe our Author can easily prove Bishops and Presbyters to be of equivalent import Answer Out upon this Observator who is so grosly out in both for really there are many better Historians then my self and some worse disputants the Observator for one but a very much worse Observator I am certain for had he not been an ill-looking-fellow he might with half an eye have discerned that I do not at all deliver mine own opinion in this particular but what many did then assert those are the very words and that many did so assert is without all dispute but since the Observator will needs have it to be mine own judgement it shall be so for once and he have his saying And what I pray doth he oppose against it but first want of Logick to inferre an identity or samenesse in the thing from a Community of names and proves it by St. Peter who calls our Saviour Christ 1 Pet. 2. 25. the Bishop of our souls and himself 1 Pet. verse 1. a Presbyter or Preist as most unhandsomely our English reads it an Elder concluding from thence that it were sorry Logick to make Christ every ordinary Bishop and the Prince of the Apostles and a simple Presbyter all one I shall first take leave to observe his Parenthesis before I passe further Herein he hath a fling at our Translators for rendring the word Presbyter Elder where 's the unhandsomenesse of it All Latine Expositors and Greek Lexicons translate {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} senior and I believe it will puzzle the Observator to find any one who ever interpreted senior by Priest and why I would gladly know is it more unhandsome in our Translators then it was in Dr. Heilen from whom the Observator differs vastly in this particular who tells us that the ancient Fathers called the Minister of the Sacrament of the Altar sometimes Presbyter Elder and sometimes Sacerdos Priest a thing so universally received amongst us as you shall very rarely finde the word Presbyter turned into Priest and never Sacerdos into Elder now it being so rare to finde Presbyter otherwise rendred then by Elder a vulgar translation should be