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A35734 A most worthy speech of the truly honourable and worthy member of the House of Commons Sir Edward Deering knight and baronet spoken in Parliament concerning the lyturgy of the Church of England and for a nationall synod. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644. 1642 (1642) Wing D1114; ESTC R13328 3,689 9

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A most worthy SPEECH Of the truly Honourable and worthy Member of the House of COMMONS Sir Edward Deering Knight and Baronet Spoken in Parliament Concerning the Lyturgy of the Church of England and for a Nationall Synod LONDON Printed for Iohn Franke and are to bee sold at his shop under the Kings head at Chancery-lanes end in Fleet-street 1642. Sir Edward Deering's SPEECH in Parliament concerning the Liturgy of the Church of England and a Nationall Synod Master Speaker THe Question is whether this clause concerning some pretended erroneous passages in our Liturgie shall be laid by or not I am of opinion to decline them here but not to bury them in perpetuall silence In this period you give us in generall termes a promise of a Nationall Synod I doe still wish the presence of it It being to my understanding the onely proper cure and remedy for all our Church distractions The promised Synod is too farre off let me have better assurance than a promise which that I may obtaine I will be bold to give you reasons to induce that Assembly and speed it also M. Speaker Much hath been said and something attempted to be done to regulate the exterior part of Religion but Sir we bleed inwardly much endeavour hath been to amend the deformed formes and to new govern the government Yet Sir this is but the leaves of good Religion fit I confesse notwithstanding to be taken care of for beauty and ornament Nay some leaves are fit and necessary to be preserved for shadowes and for shelter to the blossomes and the fruit The fruit of all is a good life which you must never expect to see unlesse the blossomes be pure and good that is unlesse your Doctrine be sound and true Sir I speak it with full griefe of heart whilst we are thus long pruning and composing of the leaves or rather whilst some would pluck all leaves away our blossomes are blasted and whilst wee sit here in cure of Government and Ceremonies we are poysoned in our Doctrinals And on whose doore will the guilt and sinne of all this lie Qui non vetat peccare cum potest jubet Senec. It is true that this mischiefe growes not by our consent and yet I know not by what unhappy fate there is at present such an all-daring liberty such a lewd licensiousnesse for venting all mens severall sences sencelesse sences in Religion as never was in any age in any Nation untill thi● present Parliament was met together Sir It belongs to us to take hee● that our countenancing the countenance of this Honourable House bee not prostituted to sinister ends by bold offenders If it be in our power to give a remedy a timely and a seasonable remedy to these dangerous evils and if wee being also put in minde shall neglect to doe it we pluck their sinnes on our own heads Alienum qui fert scelus facit suum Seneca Shall I be bold to give you a very few instances one for a hundred wherewith our Pulpits and our Presses doe groane 1 Mr. Speaker There is a certain new-borne unseen ignorant dangerous desperate way of independency Are we Sir for this Independency Nay Sir are wee for the elder brother of it the Presbyteriall forme I have not yet heard any one Gentleman within these walls stand up and assert his thoughts here for either of these wayes And yet Sir wee are made the Patrons and Protectors of these so different so repugnant innovations witnes the severall dedications to us Nay both these wayes together with the Episcopall come rushing in upon us every one pretending a forehead of Divinity 1 Episcopacy sayes it is by Divine right and certainly Sir it comes much neerer to its claime than any other 2 Presbyterie that saith it is by Divine right 3 Nay this illegittimate thing this new borne Independency that dares to say it is by Divine right also Thus the Church of England not long since the glory of the reformed Religion is miserably torne and distracted whither shall we turne for cure 2 Another instance If I would deale with a Papist to reduce him hee answers I have been answerd so already To what Religion would you perswade me what is the Religion you professe your 39 Articles they are contested against your publique solemne Liturgy that is detested and which is more than both these the three essentiall proper and only marks of a true Church they are protested against what Religion would you perswade me to where may I finde and know and see and read the Religion you professe I beseech you Sir help me an answer to this Papist Nay Sir the Papist herein hath assistance even amongst our selves and doth get the tongues of some men whose hearts are farre from them For at one of our Committees I heard it publikely asserted by one of that Committee that some of our Articles doe containe some things contrary to holy Scripture 3 Mr. Speaker Sunday is a Sabbath Sunday is no Sabbath both true both untrue in their severall acceptations and the knot I think too hard for our teeth Shall I give you an easier instance 4 Some say it is lawfull to kneel at receiving the elements of our holy Communion others plead it as expedient some do presse it as necessary and there wants not others who abhorre it as idolatrous And Sir I am confident you cannot so state this easie Question to passe amongst us but that there will be many Contradicentes 5 The second Epistle of St Peter is now newly denyed to be the Apostles our Creed the holy Apostles Creed is now disputed denyed inverted and exploded by some who would be thought the best Christians amongst us I startled with wonder and with anger to heare a bold mechanick tell mee that my Creed is not my Creed he wondred at my wonder and said I hope your Worship is too wise to beleeve that which you call your Creed O Deus bone in quae tempora reservati nos Policarp Thus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Arist. One absurdity leads in a thousand And when you are downe the hill of errour there is no bottome but in hell and that is bottomelesse too 6 Sir shall I be bold to give one and but one instance more Much clamor now there is against our publike Lyturgy though hallowed with the blood of some of the first composers of it And surely Sir some parts of it may be very well corrected but the clamors now goe very high Impudence or ignorance is now grown so frontlesse that it is lowdly expected by many that you should utterly abrogate all formes of publique worship extirpation of Episcopacy that hope is already swallowed and now some men are as greedy for the abolishing of the Liturgy that so the Church of England in her publique prayers nay her offerture may be as a babler at all adventures A brainlesse stupid and an ignorant conceit of some Mr Speaker The wisdome of
this House will I am confident never sink so low never fall into such a delinquency of Iudgement an● piety when you do I shall humbly submit my selfe unto the stake and faggot I meane for certainly Sir I shall then be a Parliament Heretick Thus much for a taste of that whereof there is too much abroad For the divisions of Reuben there are great things of that abroad Sir Thus are we engaged enclosed in poynts of Divinity and with the favour of that Gentleman who did last time discusse it I must againe propound my doubtfull Quere to bee resolved by the wisedome of this House Whether we be Idonei competentes Judices in doctrinall resolutions In my opinion we are not Let us maintaine the Doctrine established in the Church of England it will be neither safety nor wisedome for us to determine new Sir I doe againe repeate and avow my former words and doe confidently affirme that it was never seene not knowne in any Age in any Nation throughout the world that a set of Lay-men Gentlemen Souldiers Lawyers of both gownes Physitians Merchants Citizens all Professions admitted or at least admittable but the Professors of Religion alone excluded than we should determine upon Doctrine Divinity Shall the Clergy hold different Doctrine from us or shall our determination binde them also They are a considerable body in the Kingdome They are herein surely as much concerned as wee and ought not to bee bound up unheard and unpartied Further Sir if Clergy-men amongst us be thought fit for no other than for Spirituall emploiment how shall we answer it to God and a good conscience if we shut them out of that which we our selves pretend to be their onely and their proper work Mr. Speaker We cannot brag of an unerring Spirit Infallibility is no more tied to your chaire than to the Popes And if I may speake truth as I love truth with clearnesse and with plainenesse I do here ingenuously professe unto you that I shall not acquiesse and sit downe upon the Doctrinall resolutions of this House unlesse it be where my owne genius doth lead and prompt me to the same conclusions Mr. Speaker We are here convened by his Majesties writ to treat Super arduis negotiis Regni Ecclesiae I beseech you let us not turne Negotia Ecclesiae into Dogmata fidei There is a great difference in objecto between the Agends and the Credends of a Christian let us so take care to settle the Government that we do not unsettle the doctrines The short close of all with a motion is but this We are poisoned in many points of Doctrine and I know no Antidote no Recipe for cure but one A well chosen and a well tempered Nationall Synod and Gods blessing thereon This may cure us and without this in my poore opinion England is like to turne it selfe into a great Amsterdam and unlesse this Councell be very speedy the Disease will be above the Cure Therefore that wee may have a full fruition of what is here but promisde I do humbly move that you will command forth the Bill for a Nationall Synod to bee read the next morning I saw the Bill above five months since in the hand of a worthy Member of this House if that Bill be not to be had then my humble motion is as formerly that you would name a Committee to draw up another This being once resolved I would then desire that all motions of Religion this about the Liturgy especially may be transferred thither and you will finde it to be the way of peace and unity amongst us here FINIS