SEVERALL PAPERS OF THE TREATIE BETWEEN His Excellencie IAMES Marques of ORMOND Lord Lieutenant Generall of IRELAND for the KING on the one part AND Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire Commissioners authorized by the Two Houses of PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND on the other part VVith the Commissioners Instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond the Instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland Compositions of Delinquents His Excellencies Propositions and the Commissioners their Answer and the Lord Lieutenants Reply With their Reply to all his Exceptions And the Kings Maj. Directions DVBLIN Printed by William Bladâ—n Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty Anno Dom. 1646. At the Committee of Lords and Commons at Darby house BY Vertue of an Ordinance of Parl. of the 15. of this instant October authorizing us We do constitute and appoint you Sir T. Whatton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clatworthy and Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq Commissioners to treat with the Lord of Ormond for and concerning the delivery of the Sword the City of Dublin and all other Garrisons and Holds in his power And you or any three of you have hereby power to treat with the said L. of Ormond concerning the premises and to agree conclude with him concerning the same acoording to such instructions as are delivered unto you Given this 23 of October 1646. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Peirrepoint Denzel Hollis P. Stapleton W. Lewis J. Temple Ro. Goodwyn Copia vera Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Lunae 12. October 1646. IT is this day Ordered by the Commons assembled in Parliament That it be referred to the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes to consider of these Letters and to receive the Addresses of the Commissioners from Ireland and their Propâ—sitions and to view and consider of their Instructions and the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes or any four of them have power to meet this Afternoon at two of the clock in Darby-house for the purposes aforesaid and haue power to report tomorrow if they shall see occasion And the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland Mr. Hollis Sir John Clotworthy and Sir Iohn Temple have power and are desired to be present at the meeting of this Committee Mr. Na. Fiâ—es Sir W. Lewis and Mr. Rob. Goodwyn are added to this Committee Hen. Elsynge Cler. Parl. D. Com. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. THE Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do declare that they resolve to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by the Earl of Ormond and will appoint some way of treating with him for his Retirement and will imploy such as they shall think fit in the Trust of that Kingdome John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. ORdered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled That the whole Affaire concerning Ireland in respect of the secresie and expedition thereunto necessary be referred back to the former Committee And the Committee hath power to give Instructions to such as they shall imploy for the pursuance and transaction of that Affaire and to Order the Forcâ—s that shall go thither and to dispose of the Ammunition and other Provisions for the Service of Ireland as they shall judge best for the Publique Service and are to meet this Afternoon and so from time to time as they shall see cause John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Instructions for Sir Tho. Wharton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Rob. Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq concerning the Lord of Ormond YOu are to declare to the L. of Ormond the E. of Roscommon and the rest of those that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerrard Lowther Sir Francis Willoughby and Sir Panl Davies That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland If the L. of Ormond do within foure dayes deliver up the Swoâ—d render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament Then you or any three of you are to give these ensuing Conditions 1. That the L. of Ormond shall enjoy his estate without molestation or disturbance from the Parl. And shall have indempnity against all debts contracted by reason of any Goods Money Debts or Victuals taken up by vertue of any Warrants signed by him and the Councel from any person for the maintenance and support of the Armies or any of the Garrisons now under his Command 2. That he shall be protected in his Person and Goods for the space of 12 moneths against all Suits Arrests Molestation or Disturbance from any person whatsoever for any Debts owing by him to any person whatsoever before the Rebellion there 3. That the L. of Ormond and all such Noblemen Gentlemen and Officers as shall be desirous to go with him or by themselves into any other place out of that Kingdom shall have free Passes for themselves their Families Goods travelling Arms and a competent number of servants sutable to their respective Qualities 4. That the L. of Ormond shall have 5000. l. paid him in England or Ireland in such manner as shall seeme best to the Commissioners now sent And shall have also 2000. l. per annum for 5 yeares And if the Warre shall longer continue in such manner as he cannot receive 2000. l. per annum out of his owne Estate That then he shall have the said Pension of 2000. l. per annum still continued untill he can receive so much out of his own estate 5. That the L. of Ormond shall have liberty to come and live here in England With the like liberty that others have he submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament And for the time of 12 moneths shall not be pressed to any Oaths he ingaging his honour to do nothing in the mean time that shall be disservice to the Parliament Darby-house 17 Octob. 1646. A. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Pierrepoint Denzel Hollis W. Waller W. Armyn Ph. Stapleton Iohn Temple W. Lewis Ro. Wallop Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Novemb. 15. 1646. VVE find in the Instructions delivered in by you unto us That you are to declare unto us and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther c. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland We desire to know whether by these words viz. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland All the Protestants of Ireland are to enjoy their Laws Liberties Estates and Imployments without molestation or disturbance from the Parliament of England ORMOND Novem. 15. 1646. VVEE find by the Instructions delivered in by you unto us these words viz. If the Lord of Ormond doe within 4 dayes deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands
shal be thought meet to extend it to in such way as may give best satisfaction according to our Instruction Except 4. That great inconveniency may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland who are to be included in this Treaty if they should therby conclude themselves to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament Answ 1. We have declared c. That their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament is to be understood no otherwise then as all others doe who have alwayes adhered to and never offended the Parliament 2. We know of no Ordinance of Parliament that requires the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland 3. We are no wayes instructed to suppresse the Book of Common Prayer or impose the Directory though your Lordships represented in your own Instructions that the Directory might be used here 4. It may also be considered That your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both Houses of Parliament and that exclusively to any one whaâ—soever as to the ordering and disposing of the Army c. If they should accept of your Overture which could not be understood otherwise to be done but by Ordinances of Parliament as to them from time to time should seeme meet Exception 5. Lastly That the Kings direction for the Delivery up of the Government is not obteined and that your Commissioners were commanded to forbeare the delivering unto the Sâ—â—â—ch Commissioner the duplicate of the Letters which your Lordship and the Councell had written to His Majesty concerning the same Answ 1. Wee are very confident what the Committee of both houses did therein was by direction of the Parliament 2. Your Commissioners did declare that if supplyes were not instantly dispatched you would take it for granted none would bee sent and therefore must be necessitated to think of some other course for your Preservation as by the Lawes of God and Nature became you and therefore it could not be imagined the necessity being so great under which your Lordship then was according to the representation thereof made to the Parliament that you would refuse such Supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed till your Letter should be from thence sent to Newcastle and an answer thereof returned to your Lordship which would not undoubtedly have taken up much more time then the extremity of your Condition here according to the foresaid representation could possibly admit of And information was given that an addresse to the King was also made by your Lordship anotâ—er way and we have not yet understoâ—d by your Lordship that he hath inhibited you to proceed and conclude with us But more especially we desire it may be considered by your Lordship that in your letter to the King mentioned in your exceptions your Lordships expressions are full to proceed with the Parliament upâ—n the overture made to them in the Propositions not onely without desiring answer but without expecting consent or direction from his Majesty before such time as you would conclude the same and your Lordship doth onely give an accompt of your Resolutions his Majesty unconsulted with as already fix't with expâ—ctation onely of a benigne construction from his Majesty thereupon And that not onely from the consideration of necessity but as we conceive of your Lordships duâ—y also as the case theâ— stood no lesse then a Kingdome lying at the Stake to make your application in such manner to the Parliament 3. May it not also be considâ—red what reason the Parliament had to conceive your Lordship intended not so to insist on the Kings direction as with uâ— it you would not conclude when they observed that by those Propositions from your Lordship a Copy whereof you have delivered us you offered if they should accept thereof to put your present Army and Forces called by your Lordship his Majesties Army Notwithstanding any interest you apprehended the King had therein under the sole direction of both Houses of Parliament And yet in those Propositions we finde no mention made of consent or direction to be first had from the King which was believed your Lordship then as at this time also might the better do for that by act of Parliament the mannaging of the Waâ— of Ireland is established in both Houses of Parliament alone 4. It may be considered that however many eases of this nature in the late troubles in England have happened where Persons under great obligations to the King have frequently surrendâ—ed to the Parliament Garisons and Forces which they received by command from his Majesty as in particular that of Oxford where remained not onely the Duke of Yorke and his Majesties Councell but also the Sword the great and lesser Seales with other Ensignes of the Regall Power and alâ— these without first having any explicite direction from the King to deliver up the same 5. When we also consider how passionately it was represented to the Parliament by your Lordship of how great importance the City and Castle of Dublin together with the Garisons under your Command were in order to the recovery of the Kingdome of Ireland the preservation of the Protestant Religion together with all the Protestants therein as also how undoubtedly all must miscarry if Supplies did not timely come We cannot but wonder that in case of so high concernment and so great necessity the spilling of the blood of so many thousand Protestants being unavoidable according to the grounds and representations offered by your Lordship to the Parliament the danger whereof remaines the same for ought hath occurred to us granted also by the losse of many Garisons since and will be perfected by your rejecting the Supplies with so much expedition and Charge sent hither by the Parliament that yet the Kings consent should be so insisted on as that neither the preservation of the said Protestant Religion nor the blood of thousands of Protestants nor any of the fore-mentioned Considerations should puâ—chase a Dispensation therein 6. And whereas your Lordships Oath is objected It appeares to us to be penn'd with speciall caution and relation to such a time of necessity as this and is rather as we conceive sullfilled by consent to then refusall of the conditions offered to your Lordship unto which also we believe that respect was had when those Resolutions were taken up expressed in the fore-mentioned Letter to the King Wee hold it our Duty to deale thus cleerly and freely with your Lordship that if it were possible we might give satisfaction thereby However our consciences doe acquit us that we have done our utmost therein and doâ— conceive that those that imployed us will be abundantly acquitted in the sight of God and Man as having done what could be expected from them and unto whom for any neglect in this affaire the guilt of Blood we are confident shall not be imputed in that day wherein inquisition shall be made for the same Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy Rion Salwey November 1646.
instruction to his Majesties Protestant Subjects for their Estates Your fourth answer is If any thing can be reasonably offered in the behalfe of such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not been in the Irish Rebellion it shall be also recommended back by you to those who imployed you in the best manner you can to out satisfaction The latter part of which answer being the best part thereof we desire may be pursued for the first part thereof doth inforce the Exception it being made a doubt whether any thing can be reasonably offered for such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not been in the Irish Rebellion whereas nothing in reason can be offered against such but that they should be secured in their persons and estates Our third Exception is That no assurance is given that the Judges and Ministers of the Civill and Martiall List shall be continued in their places and imployments which is answered by you as followeth First nothing is given us in charge nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removall of the Judges and Ministers of the Civill List nor of any of them which answer doth not satisfie us for we desire by our Proposition to have an assurance for the continuing them in their respective imployments which is not yet assented unto Your second answer is That in cases of like nature it hath not been known that persons so qualified have been continued and estiblished by Treaty nor was it to your knowledge ever heretofore insisted upon by any whomsoever which answer doth not satisfie us for though you might shew that the contrary hath been done in like cases as we beleeve you cannot yet even for that cause we have the more reason to insist upon it Your third answer is If it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament yet assurance is given and otherwise they can need none for security to their persons with enjoyment of their goods and estates in the Kingdome of Ireland as if they had not offended and have liberty to compound for the estates any of them have in England and such Composition not to exceed two yeares value We are not satisfied with this your answer for there is nothing here to assure them the continuance in their imployments and our Proposition made in their behalfe for their continuance in their imployments cannot presume cannot presume a guilt and it is no reason to say that if they be not guilty they need desire this assurance for the Judges doe well understand that abundans cautela non nocet and if it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament there is the more reason to insist on the Proposition for the continuing of them in their respective imployments they having been dispoyled of all their estates To your expression whereby you would satisfie us concerning the continuing in imployment the Officers now under our Command viz. That as you have not yet taken up a resolution if the Treaty should succeed to displace any so you declare it must be an extraordinary cause that must induce you to it wee easily beleeve that as it is too early for you to declare a resolution to turne them out of their imployments though such a resolution were taken up by you till you possest of the power to do it so you may judge such a declaration not to be the readiest way to attaine to that power by Treaty from us which We are confident is the only way whereby you will at this time attempt it but when by that meanes you should be invested in that Power the questiou is whether you would not then understand that the Concurrence of some of the MarriaÌ„ll List with us in the conclusion of the Cessations and peace here the actuall Service of some others in His Majesties Armies in England and the obedience given by all to some Commands that may have been displeasing to the two Houses of Parliament in England to be extraordinary and sufficient causes for their removeall wherein if you shall declare negatively wee shall rest satisfied as to that particular not could our Demand of having them secured in their respective imployments be understood to reach to a forgivenesse of such Crimes in future as may merit displacing for which we confesse we can no more alleadge a president then we beleeve you can that ever the sword was demanded to be delivered by the Chiefe Governour of this Kingdome to Commissioners of the Parliament of England without the Command of the King Exception 4. Our fourth exception being as followeth viz. That great inconvenience may happen to all the Protestants of Ireland who are to be included in this treaty if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of Parliawent is answered by you as followeth Answer 1. Your first Answer is we have declared that their submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament is to bee understood no otherwise then as all others doe who have alwayes adhered to and never offended the Parliament with which answer we are not satisfied it being no more then that we are to submit to all the Ordinances of Parliament to which those who are of the Parliament party submit as the Covenant the Directory the abolishing of the Booke of Common-prayer c. Aâ—swer 2. Your second answer is we know of no Ordinance of Parliament that requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland with which answer wee are not satified for we know that it hath been prest in all parts of the Kingdome where the Parliament hath prevailed as in the Provinces of Munster Vlster and Connaught there being some Ministers not long since employed into Vlster who went from Town to Town and from City to City pressing the Covenant whereupon many Protestants did acquit their Commands and habitations in those parts rather then they would subiect themselves to it and if the same was done without an Ordinance of Parliament we have the more reason to insist that his Maiesties Subiects may be secured against so violent and unwaranted pressures upon their Consciences And if you know no Ordinances of Parliament which requireth the Covenant to be taken in the Kingdome of Ireland you may the better undertake that it shall not be pressed and if you bee not instructed to suppresse the Book of Common prayer or impose tho Directory you may the better condescend to what is desired concerning both so far as is expressed in our instructions Answer 4. Your fourth answer is It may also be considered that your Lordship made Overture of submitting to the Direction of both houses of Parliament and that exclusively to any other whatsoever as to to the ordering and disposing of the Army c. if they should accept of your Overture which could not be understood otherwise to be done but by Ordinances of Parl as to them from time to time should seeme meet VVe are not satisfied with this
of the Rebels lye neare this â—itiâ— and may probably make some speedy attempt upon the same we hold it our duty for the preservation thereof and of he Protestants therein to declare that if your Lordship apprehend such danger to be and that any Supplies of Men and Ammunition which wee have brought with us may prevent the same we are reaâ—y to give all such assistance as may be thought expedient during the time the pâ—esâ—nt Treaty câ—nâ—iâ—uâ—s with you Lordship and are willing to give such Cantion as may be expected from us That no other use shaâ—l be made of the same then is herein expressed and shaâ—l expect the like from your Lordship As also that such Men and Ammunition as we shall bring a-shore for the purposes aforesaid be if the Treaty succeed not returned us back again Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 16. November 1646. UPon consideration had of your fourth Paper of the fifteenth of this moneth and the first paper of the sixteenth of this in nâ—th and he Copy of the Additionall Instruction sent unto us therewith before we can deliver any positive answer to your papers we hold it necessary to be satisfied in the following particulars First whereas you expresse in that paper of the fifteenth as followeth viz. we are enabled to â—ive to such Protestants not having been in the Irish rebellion as we condition withall assurance of security to their persons and theâ—estater and goods that they have in Ireland we desire you to declare whether those words viz. such Protestants not having been in the Irish rebellion you intend to exempt those Protestants or any of them who have had a hand in making the cessation or the late peace or who have done any thing by occasion or in Pursuance thereof Secondly whether by these words viz. we are enabled to give such Protestants as we condition withall assurance you intend that every particular Protestant shall come and make his conditions with you or whether all the Protestants of this Kingdome are not to be included within the present treaty and to partake of the agreement which shall be made Thirdly whether by those words Submitting to Ordinances of Parliamen it be intended that they shall submit to all aâ—d every the Ordinances already made and which hereafter shall be made by the Parliament of England Fourthly we find nothing in the Comâ—ission nor in any of the Instructions delivered by you to us for the continuance of the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List and Oâ—ficers of the Martiall List in their respective imployments nor any answer given by you unto us in any of your papâ—rs unto that particular and herein we desire to be satisfied as a matter wherein their being and livelihood doth depend Ormond 16. November 1646. TO the first and second parcicular of your Lordships first paper of the 16. November we answet that we shall not exempt any Protestants of Ireland though thâ—y have of late consented or submitted either to the cessation of Armes or the peace concluded with the Irish rebels so as they submit to the Parliament wiâ—hin twenty dayes after our sending to them To the third particular your Lordship hath an authentick copie of the Instruction wherein those words submitting to alâ— Ordinance of Parliament are expressed of which we have no explanation To the fourth particular concerning the continuation or displacing of the Judges an Ministers of the Civill List in their imployments we are not instructed therein but for the Officers of the Martiall List we have power by our Instructions and doe intend accordingly to imploy such of them as shall be found fit for the service Having thus endeavoured to give your Lordship all possible satisfaction we do again desire your Lordships positive answer to our papers formeny given in it being too manifest how grest mischief may befall the Protestants of this Kingdom and the service with which we are entrusted should not our Debates be brought to a speedy conclusion Rob. Meredith T. Wharton Rob. King J. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 16. November 1646. We are not satisfied with your answer to our first Paper of the 16. of Novemb. to which we take these following exceptions for the present First we desired by our said paper to know of you whether you intended to exempt the Protestants or any of them who have had a hand in making the cessation or late peace c. to which you make this answer That you wil not exempt any Protestants of Ireland though they have of late consented or submitted either to the cessation or the peace concluded with the Irish rebels so as they submit to the Parliament within twenty dayes after your sending unto them within which words no provision is made either for those who had a hand in the making thereof or did upon the first making thereof submit thereunto And besides no provision is made for any but such as you shall send unto so that it will rest in your power to whom you will send and when wherein there is no certainty Secondly we desired by our said paper to know of you whether you intended that every particular Protestant shall come and make his conditions with you or whether all the ProtestaÌ„â—s of this kingdom are not to be included within the present Treaty and to partake of the agreement to be made to which no cleare answer is given And whereas you desire our positive answer to your papers formerly given â—it being as you say too manifest how great mischiefe may befall the Protestants of this kingdome and the seruice with which you are intrusted if your debates should should not be brought to a speedy conclusion We desire you for the same reasons to set down fully and clearly how far the propositions which we sent to the Parliament by our Commissioners are assented unto and upon view and consideration thereof we shall speedily give our positive answer Ormond 17. November 1646. IN answer to your Lordships second paper of the 16. of November and for clearing so farre as possibly lyes in us the Exceptions therein taken to our answer unto your Lordships first paper of the same date We herewith deliver all the Instructions which we have received that do as we conceive in any kind whatsoever relate thereunto and if yet â—â—â—te shall remain with your Lordship any doubâ— concerning those particulars we shall represent the same if the Trâ—acy do succeed to those that imployed us with the best advantage for the Protestanâ—s of this Kingdome Further satisfaction then this we suppose cannot be expected from us As to the other part of your Lordships paper wherein you would have us set down fully and clearly â—ow far the propositions which you sent to the Parliament by your Commissioners are assenâ—ed unto we cannot answer your Lordships desire therein neither those propositions nor copies of them being delivered unto us We therefore earnestly desire your Lordship to accept of the
conditions offered in our former papers and to give us a speedy resolution therein Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io Clotworthy Ri. Salwey Instructions for Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King Sir John Clotworthy and Sir Rob. Meredith Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire imployed to the Lord of Ormond and others at Dublin You may receive any Protestant who hath not been in the Irish rebellion though he hath of late consented or submitted either to the cessation of A mes or the peace concluded with the Irish rebâ—ls so as they submit to the Paâ—liament within twenty dayes after your sending for them You or any three of you have power hereby to give protection to â—uch as will come under contribution and to give them the best safeguard you can by the countenanâ—e of the Forces serving under the Parliament You or any three of you may give to such Protestants not having been in the Irish â—ebellion as you condition withall assurance of security to their persons and to their estates and goods that they have in Ireland and that tâ—ey may live quietly and securely under the protection oâ— the Parliament and their Forces either within England Ireland or Wales and you may likewise assure them that they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods without any molestation or question from the Parliament as any others doe who have not offended the Parliament they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament ann if any of them have any Lands or Estates in England they are to compound for the same at the rate of two yeares profit as they were before the beginning of these troubles they submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament Darby-house Octob. 17. 1646. Northumberland W. Pâ—erpoint W. Waller Manchester Denz Hollis P. Stapleton P. Lisle W. Lewis I. Temple P. Wharton W. Armine Ro. Wallop 17. November 1647. IN your third paper of the 16. of November are these words viz. That for the Officers of the Martiall List we have power by our Intructions and â—o intend accordingly to imploy such of them as shall be found fit for the service A Copy of which Instruction we desire that we may the better judge how farre the security and future subsistence of the said Officers is thereby provided for Ormond November 17. 1646. In answer to your Lordships first paper of the 17. of this Moneth wee herein deliver a Copy of the Instructions therein desired Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy R. Salwey YOu or any three of you are to imploy such of the Officers now under the Lord of Oâ—mond as you shall thinke fit and where you displace any you are to place other Officers if they be necessary or otherwise to see their Commands sufficiently discharged untill the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland take further order Signed as the rest of the Instruction Copia vera exam W. Rowe Secr. 17. Novemb. 1646. BY our second paper of the 16. of November wee desired you for the bringing of the present debates to a speedy dy conclusion to set down fully and clearly how farre the propositions positions which we sent to the Parliament by our Commissioners are assenced unto and we did by our said paper declare that upon view and consideration thereof we would speedily give our positive answer to which by our first paper of the 17. of November you say that you cannot answer our desire therein neither those propositions nor copies of them being delivered unto you We think fit to declare unto you that our Commissioners delivered our Propositions and Instructions to the Committee of both Houses and that they took Copies thereof and that our Commissioners doe by their letters of the 16. of October 1646 certifie us by the command of the said Committee that with the succours there would also arriue here certain Commissioners to bee sent from the Parliament to treat with us upon the particulars contained in the Propositions and Instructions sent to the Parliament from us Copies of which Propositions and Instructions we are ready to send unto you if that you shall desire the same And we again desire you to declare fully and clearly how far you have power and will assent to our said Propositions or whether we shall give our positive answer to the papers already delivered by you taking it for granted that you have no further or other Instructions then what you have delivered us Ormond 17. November 1646. TO your Lordships second paper of the 17. of November wherein you again desire us to declare fully and clearly how farre we have power and will assent to the Propositions sent to the Parliament by your Commissioners we can return no other answer then we have already done in our two first papers of the 16. and 17. of Novemb. in the later of which we declare we have not those propositions nor copies of them nor we think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from your Lordship yet we desire the want of those Propositions may not be conceived the only reason of our forbearance of giving further answer to your Lordships paper but hold it our duty to insist upon your Lordships positive answer to the papers already given in Rob Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 17. November 1646. If you shall positively declate that you have no power or instructions to enlarge your selves beyond what is expressed in your former papers we will then give a positive answer to those papers Ormond 17 November 1646. We cannot more largely or positively expresse the power and extent of our instructions we have then already done but doe again in pursuance of our instructions desire your Lordshâ—pâ— answer to the papers given in Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob King Jo Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 17 November 1646. We did not by our third paper oâ— the 17. of November desire to know whether you could more largely or positively express thâ— power intent of your instructions then you had formerly done But we expressed that if you would positively declare you had no power or instructions to enlarge your selves beyond what is expressâ—d in your former papers wee would then give a positive answer to those papers which by your answer thereunto you have neither affirmed nor denied And therefore we forbear to give a positive answer to your said papers till we be satisfied in that particular Ormond 18. November 1646. Having taken into consideration your Lordships last paper of the 17. of Novemb. we return you this answer that wea hold not fit positively to declare whether wee have any power or instruction to enlarge our selves beyond what is expressed in our former paper nor doewe conceive it ought to be expected from us for that to omit other reasons wee have frequently declared that we are according to our instructions to receive your Lordships positive answer upon the papers already given in which we now again desire from your Lordship Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy
such as the Parliament shall appoint upon these conditions First that they procure his Maj. directions for the doing therof c. which was the first and fundamentall condition of all that was propounded by us upon this Overture which was to be Precedent and without which nothing as unto the delivery up of the Government was to be expected from us Upon consideration of all which and of the Oath taken by us upon our first entrance into this great trust reposed in us the tenour whereof doth ensue in these words viz. You shall swear that you shall faithfully and truly to your power serve our Soveraign Lord the Kings Majestie in the roome and authority of Lord Lieutenant and chiefe Governour of this his Realm of Ireland you shall maintain and defend the Lawes of God and the Christian Faith You shall to your power not only keep his Maj. peace amongst his People but also maintain his Officers and Ministers in the execution and administration of Justice You shall defend his Maj. Castles Garrisons Dominions People Subjects of this Realm and represse his Rebels and Enemies You shall not consent to the damage and disherâ—zon of his Maj. his Heires nor Successors neither shall you suffer the right of the Crown to be destroyed by any way but shall let it to your power and if you cannot let the same You shal certifie his Maj. cleerly and expresly thereof You shall give your true and faithfull for the Kings Majesties profit and his Highnesse councel You shal conceal and keep All other things for the preservation of his Maj. Realm of Ireland the peace amongst his People and execuâ—ion of his Justice according to his Maj Lawes Usages and Customes of this his Highnesse Realm you shall performe and do to your power So God you helpe and by the Contents of this Book And for that our Commissioners have by their Letters certified us that they were commanded by the Committee of both houses to forbeare the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the duplicate of the Letters which we and the Councel had written to his Maj. and delivered to our Commissioners advertising his Maj. thereby of our addresse to the Parliament with direction to deliver them to the Scottish Commissioners to be sent to the King untill the pleasure of the two houses should bee made known which restraint doth as yet for any thing made known unto us lye still upon them And for that if we should deliver up the Sword in manner as is desired the present Parl. of this Kingdom which is the hope of the remaining Protestants here would be at an end for all which reasons we may not part with the trust committed to our charge in manner as by your papers is desired without his Majesties expresse and positive direction and therefore may not assent thereunto Ormord 19. Novemb. 1646. If your Lordship continue unsatisfied concerning the papers already delivered in or any of them as is implyed by the Exceptions taken thereunto and expressed in your last paper of the 18 of November we are ready to offer such consideâ—aâ—ions to your Lordship by way of Answer thereunto as we hope may give your Lordship satisfaction therein and this we desire may be done by conference if your Lordship shall thinke fit for that the shortnesse of time will not give opportunity to commit it to writing Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 19. November 1646. Although the Conference desired by you in your paper of this days date was within half an hour of the expiration oâ— the time limitted for this treaty Aâ—d although you have positively declared in your 3. paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. That you have no power to â—nlarge your selves â—r the timâ— beyond what you have expressed yet to manifâ—st to â—he world hâ—w desirous we are to receive satisfaction in those necessary exceptions by us taken to your papers given in upon this Treaty which may being the same to a happy conclusion we are ready to entertain the Conference desired by your said first paper of this dayes date ORMâ—ND 19. Novemb. 1646. Whereas we received a large paper from your Lordship of the 18. of Novemb. wherin you declared you could not assent to deliver up thâ— sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Paâ—l as was desired by us in papers formerly given in â—o your Lordship together with your particular Exceptions to the same And whereas we did immediatly thereupon offer unto your Lorpship such further â—onditions of inlargement to the former as we were instructed unto for your more ample satisfaction in complying wiâ—h the desires of the Parliament in order to the preservation of the Protestants of the Kingdom of Ireland And whereas your Lordship signified to us that it then being late the paper given in by us of great importance you would return answer thereunto the next morning And whereas wee did this morning deliver to your Lordship a paper declaring That if your Lordship continued unsatisfied concerning the Papers by us given in or any of them as was expressed by the Exceptions taken thereunto we were ready to offer such consideraaions to your Lordship as we hoped might give satisfaction which we desired might be done by conference for that the shortnesse of time would not permit it in writing And having received another paper from your Lordship of the 19. of Novemb. containing your refusall to deliver up the Sword c. upon the Conditions offered in our first and later papers your Lordship did signifie by your second paper of the 19. That you were ready to hear what we coulâ— further offer by way of Conference as was desired which was by us performed accordingly We do therefore now desire to know if your Lordship do still insist upon your refusall on the grounds expressed in your papers And if so we make known to your Lordship that we shall for our own exoneration commit to writing the summe of what we delivered in Conference and give your Lordship a copy thereof to the end the uprightnesse of our proceedings in the transaction of this Treaty with your Lordship may in all things appear although that happy successe which we desired be not attained thereby Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey Novemb. 16. 1646. Forasmuch as what was delivered upon the Conference cannot be made use of by us as binding unto you unlesse it be reduced to writing and signed by you which when you shall have reduced the same to writing and given us a Copy thereof signed by you We shall then declare unto you whether or no we will rest satisfied therewith or shall upon the whole matter insist upon our refusall Ormond Dublin 20. Novemb. 1647. Whereas upon Thursday morning the 14 of Novemb. in our Conference with your Lordship wee did endeavour to offer such considerations as might give satisfaction to your Exceptions taken by our papers given
in And whereas we did at the same time also desire to know whether or no your Lordship had received satisfaction to all or any of your said Exceptions or whether you would still insist upon your refusall whereupon your Lordship by your third Paper of he 19. of Novemb. returned answer That what was delivered upon the Conference cannot be made use of by your Lordship as binding unto us unlesse it be reduced to writing and signed by us and that when we shall have reduced the same to writing and given you a coyy therof signed by us your Lordship will then declare unto us whether or no you will rest satisfied therewith or shall upon the whole matter insist upon your refusall Wee have therefore accordingly exprest in writing the summe of what was delivered in Conference which wee offer to your Lordship as followeth Youâ— Lordships first Exception is Except 1. That none of the Propositions of the first way of Overture which were transmitted by your Lordship to the Parliament are assented unto To which we answer Answ 1. That an Ordinance of Parliament of the 15. of October 1646. â—ontaining the Declaration of both Houses to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by your Lordship was by us delivered to your Lordship 2 That Declaration was made by the Parliament before such time as Sir Francis Willongâ—by returned from London from whom your Lordship might be informed thereof 3 Your Lordship presuming before your Commissioners came from London that the Parl. might not accept of those Propositions did by Additionall Instructions declare you would not insist thereupon and accordingly gave them liberty to recede from the same and to propound a second way of Overture which the Parliament did proceed upon and appointed a way of Treating with you of which your Commissioners did advertise your Lordship by Direction of the Committee of Parliament appointed to consider of the said Propositions And 4 If your Lordship observe how far that second way of Overture is accepted and granted by the Parliament in the Proposition by us given in you may happily find not onely full and positive satisfaction to the most of what your Lordship asked but in some particulars also more ample offers made then was by your Lordship desired therein which then the world shall consider together with the grounds and principles held forth by your Lordship inviting the Dispatch of Supplies â—o this Place we are confident the Parliament will be abundantly justified therein yet over and above all this we continue to declare that in every particular we will go to the utmost limits of â—ur Instructions and where any thing seemes doubtfull to your Lordship or too short we shall if the Treatie succeed represent it to those that em ploy us in the best manner we can for your Lordships full satisfaction And this wee desire may be applyed to every Exception taken by your Lordship Except 2. That we have no power to secure any of his Majesties Romane Catholike Subjects in their persons and estates who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22. of October 1641. Of whom you conceive care ought to be had in the present Treaty Answ 1 Those that by Authority of Parliament gave power to us to treat did not for ought we can perceive take cognizance of any of the Romane Catholikes of Ireland that did adhere to the Government of this Kingdome against the Irish Rebels 2 If any such be it 's probable the number is not considerable and if they have done nothing against the Parliament they need not any speciall security but may expect as much as others that have in like manner demeaned themselves although they be of the Protestant Religion 3 Power is given as by an Instruction delivered in the 16. of Nov. is exprest to protect such as will come under Contribution and to give them safeguard by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parliament According to which they are to be protected in their persons and estates aswell from the violence of the souldiers under the Parliament as of the Enemy And this to be extended unto all without distinction of Offence or Religion 4 If any thing more can be reasonably offered in the behalfe of such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not beene in the Irish Rebellion it shall be also recommended back by us to those that imployed us in the best manner we can for your Lordships satisfaction Except 3. That no assurance is given that the Judges and Ministers of the Civill and Martiall List shall be continuod in their places and employments c. Answ 1. Nothing is given us in charge nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removall of the Judges and Ministers of the Civill List nor any of them 2 In cases of like nature it hath not been known that persons so qualified have been continued and established by Treaty nor was it to â—ur knowledge ever heretofore insisted on by any whomsoever 3. If it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament yet assurance is given and otherwise they can need none for security to their persones with injoyment of there goods and estates in the Kingdom of Ireland as if they had not offended and have liberty to compound for their Estates â—s any of them have in England and such Composition not to exceed two years value Concerning the Officers of the Martiall List We answer Answ 1. We have expressed That we will continue and imploy all such Officers whomsoever as shall be found fit for the Service And as we have not hitherro taken up a resolution if the Treaty shâ—oâ—ld succed to displace any so we doe declare that it must be an extraordinary cause that should induce us to it and we understand the words of our Instruction viz. You are to imploy such of the Officers c. doth so direct us and therefore connot give as your Lordship expresseth more occasion of feare unto the Officers of being displaced then hope of continuance in their respective imployments 2. As we beleeve no president can be show so it is obvious the inconvenience would be very great to article for and establish by Treaty any Officers of the Military List though our resolution be to continue the same 3. The same assurance and benefit as is declared in our third answer to your Lordships objections concerning the Civill List is also to be extended in like manner to the Officers of the Martiall List according to our Instructions In which also the Clergie of this Kingdome mentioned by your Lordship may respectively receive advantage concerning whom we are not instructed Yet We desice it may be rememcred that power is given us to agree for Pensions to such as we shhll thinke fit to the value of two â—â—oâ—stand pounds per annum which we are ready to assertain unto such of the Civill and Martiall List as also of the distressed Clergy as
your Answer the strength of your reason being thus That we did submit to the direction of both Houses of Parliament for the ordering of the Army c. therefore no inconvenience can happen to the Protestants in Ireland who are to be included in this Treaty if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of the Parliament of England which sure is no good Consequence from one particular to conclude a generall And if you would declare that by submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament were onely intended such Ordinances as concerne the ordering and disposing of the Army though that offer of Ours was in case that way of accommodation which is waved by the Parliament were laid hold of of any thing wherein we therefore conceive no use should be made in this Treaty since that way laid aside yet such a declaration would as that point give satisfaction The fifth exception is That the Kings Direction for the delivery up of the Government is not obtained and that our Commissioners were commanded to forbeare the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the Duplicate of the Letters which Wee and the Councell had written to his Majesty concerning the same To which you make these Answers viz. That our Commissioners did declare That if Supplies were not instantly dispatched that We would take it for granted that none would be sent which was the ground of hastning the said Supplies whereas the words of our Instructions wero That if within a reasonable time after landing of our Commissioners they did not advertise us that those things we desired were on the way hither or at least a considerable proportion of Money and Munition and probable hope of the rest speedily after that then wee would take it for granted not that no Supplies would come but that our Propositions were rejected there which strongly implyed and so was intended that if we understood Supplies were on the way we might then take it for granted our propositions were accepted which also we had cause to believe for that our Commissioners by command of the Committee before whom they were heard signifyed to us their message was cheerfully accepted whereof the sending of Supplies was but a part nor can it be reasonably objected to us that we refuse those Supplies since none of the Conditions wherein we expressed our willingnes to receive them is offered to us in manner as was desired especially that fundamentall one of procuring the Kings Command for delivering up the Sword and Garrisons which being the way fixed on by the Parliament we much wonder was not endeavoured as well it might have been and an answer had before you came from London and if it had been obtained there had been no need of sending it to us till your arrivall and if it had been refused the Parliament in their great wisdome and knowledge of the duty of one so highly trusted would have found some other expedient to extend their assistance and protection to the Protestants other then such as must blemish our honour and fidelity to all Posterity nor is it a sufficient discharge to us that his Majesty hath not inhibited us to proceed and conclude with you his expresse command being in this case absolutely necessary And as for the suppositions and inferences which you make out of the Letters writ by us to his Majey and both houses of Parliament as that it could not be imagined the necessities being so great under which we then were that we would refuse such supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed till our letter should be from hence sent to New castle and answer thereof returned to us And that the Parliament had no reason to conceive that we intended so to insist on the Kings direction as without it we would not conclude c. As also considering how passionately we represented to the Parliament the importance of the City and Castle of Dublin c. and how undoubtedly all must miscarry if Supplies did not speedily come that yet the Kings consent should be so insisted upon as none of the forementioned considerations should purchase a dispensation therein And to induce us thereunto you propose unto us examples of the delivering up of other Garrisons and Forces in England as in particular that of Oxford c. without having any explicite direction from the King to deliver up the same We conceive the case of Oxford to be different from this For Sir Thomas Fairfax to whom the City of Oxford was rendred after some time of formall Singe and the shedding of blood on both fides was not invited thither by those within to defend and relieve it against the expected attempts of another enemy as those Forces now here with you were upon certain Conditions by us but his comming before Oxford was unsent for openly and declaredly to take by force of Armes that City In the case of Oxford also we have seen his Majesties Command directed to the Governour for the rendring thereof which if you can produce to us for the giving up of these Garrisons with the Eâ—sigâ—es of Royalty belonging to the Crown of this Kingdome we will in like sort readily obey the same notwithstanding some other disparity in the cases And if the instructions we gave our Commissioners be looked into Copies whereof were delivered by them to the Committee of both houses all these suspitions inferences and Arguments will vanish it being a certain and true rule that no inference nor application is to be made contrary to that which is exprest as our instructions were in this particular for our first and principall instruction was That we would surrender our place of Lievtenant c. to such as the Parliament should appoint upon these following conditions First that they procure his Majesties direction for the doing thereof c. But further to cleere it in our seventh and last instruction delivered unto our Commissioners whereof the said Committee had likewise a Coppy it is further given in charge unto them in this manner viz. If in the mean time whilest they take these Propositions and the rest into their considerations and till they have procured his Mâ—jâ—sties direction as aforesaid the Parliament be pleased to send over such Supplyes as may relieve the Garrisons from ruine through want or by the hostile attempts of the Rebels the same shall be well husbanded for them and imployed only to those ends both which instructions leave no place for inference or implication to be made contrary to expresse instructions If the Parliament hath procured his Majesties direction the condition is performed but if that be not done the Forces notwithstanding may be received and imployed in the present service and â—o all those inconveniencies may be prevented which are feared But if nothing that we can do can give satisfaction but to deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament which we are bound by Oath to
preserve and keep for His Majesty before we do receive His direction therein We doubt not but we shall be acquit herein before God and men if we insist upon the refusall of that which we cannot do without the violation of our Oath to God and the King To sum me up in briefe those particulars wherein we are not satisfyed by any of your Papers nor by any thing which was delivered in the Conference First you have shewed us no direction from his Majesty to deliver the Sword c. which you say you have not procured Secondly you have not offered assurance to the Papists of this Kingdome who have adhered to his Majesties government since the 22. of October 1641. for their estates which is confessed by you Thirdly you have not undertaken that the Covenant shall not be pressed nor that the Book of Common-prayer shall not be suppressed Fourthly you have given no assurance either for the continuance of the Judger and Officers of the Civill List or the Officers of the Martiall in their respective imployments or the Cleargy in their respective Rights and incumbencies Fiftly you have given us no satisfaction in that great and main Objection touching the present Parliament which would be dissolved if that we should deliver the Sword in manner as is desired The Papers do cleere none of these particulars and nothing was delivered positively in the Conference which doth any wayes enlarge the former Papers We know that in matters of so high and great concernment you will go to the utmost Limits of your instructions and that in these things which seem doubtfull to us you will if any expedient can be found for the continuing the Treaty represent them to those who employed you in the best manner you can for Our satisfaction according to the promise made by you in your last Paper for which we doe returne you thankes in the behalfe of all His Majesties Protestant Subjects and those who have faithfully adhered to them And for that full satisfaction cannot be given to us without your further Application to the Parliament for enlarging your powers We being resolved to leave no meanes unattempted that may conduce to the preservation of his Majesties Protestant Subjects in this Kingdome and the Rights of the Crowne of England and to the end the Forces brought hither by you may be employed to those good ends whilest His Majesties pleasure by us and that of the Parliament by you is sought do offer these following Propositions First that the Officers and Souldiers sent hither by the Parliament of England be put into one or more convenient Garrisons and be commanded by their Respective Officers who are to receive Orders from Us and the Governours of the places where they shall be Garison'd and to be subject to the Lawes Martiall now in force in this Kingdome Secondly We desire towards the keeping of the Army now under our Command for six weekes three thousand pounds wherof two parts in money and a third part in victualls Thirdly That there be an ingagement from you to us on the behalfe of the Parliament that the Officers and Souldiers which are to be Garrisoned as in the first Proposition is mentioned shall do no Act prejudiciall to the present Government here And that in case we shall not at or before the expiration of the said six weeks agree that they shall remove from those places out of our quarters at such time as we shall direct Fourthly We shall engage Our selfe unto you that the said Officers and Souldiers shall quietly and peaceably be permitted by Us to remove with their Armes Provisions and other things belonging unto them to Shipboard or to such other places out of Our quarters as you Sir Robert Meredith Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King and Sir John Clotworthy Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire or any three of you shall direct And to these Our Propositions We desire your speedy Answer ORMONDE Dublin 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordships papers of the 21. of November and in them your returne to what was first delivered in-conference and afterwards for your Lordships satisfaction put in writing and signed by us And whereas in those papers your Lordship desires a coppy of the Instruction whereby power is given us to agree for Pensions to the value of two thousand pounds per annum We have the light fit that nothing may be wanting on our parts herewith to deliver you a Coppy of the said Instruction And however upon perusall of your Lordships paper of the 21. of November we find little cause to beleeve satisfaction will be received by your Lordship as hath been andeavoured to be given by Us. Yet forasâ—â—â—â—eh at your third paper of the 19. of November dâ—â—d express that when you should receive in writing signed by us what war delivered in Conference to your Lordship you would then declare unto us whether or no you would rest satlsfied therewith or upon the whole matter insist upon your refusall we desire your Lordship speedily to give us your positive answer accordingly And withall we hold it fit to declare that as we conceive the grounds of satisfaction offered by us doe remaine unanswered by you Lordship and particularly touching the Kings consent and direction which you call maine and fundamentall we having made it appeare that your Lordships Overture to the Parliament was to put all your Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command the King unconsulted with at all therein so we no wayes thinke fit though our Instructions should therein anthorize us to accept of the Propositions mentioned in the latter end of your papers as an expedient to continue any longer It yet your Lordship continue to refuse what we have offered we can onely give account thereof to those that imployed us and must leave it to the world to judge whether those Exceptions taken and insisted on by your Lordship be consonant to those grounds and principles held forth in your Overture made to the Parliament by which they were induced to send Succours hither or whether all the particulars so farre insisted on by your Lordship that it appâ—â—arâ—s not to us you will recede from any one thereof be of equall concernment to that hazard yea according to your Lordships owne representation that Certainty of losse not of a Kingdome only but of Thousands of Protestants and together with them the Protestant Religâ—on also All which by the great care and pious endeavours of the Parliament of England might have been through the blessing of God prevented if what we have oftered and doe yet offer in their names he not by your Lordship refused Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy R. Salwey A Copie of the Instruction mentioned in the former Paper YOu or any Three of you have also hereby power given you to agree for such allowances to be paid to others by constans Pension during the Warre of Ireland for the better and more fir me carrying on of this Worke as shall not exceed in the whole the suâ—â—me of Two Thousand Pounds per-annum to all other persons beside the Two Thousand pounds per annum to the Lord of Ormonde And those pensions to continue till they can receive the like benefit by their owne Estates Signed as the rest of the Instructions Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe 22. Novemb. 1646. WHereas by your paper of the 22. of Nov. 1646. You affirme that you made it appeare that our Overture to the Parliament was to put our Forces Garrisons under their sole Command the King not consulted withal therin we doe positively affirme that you neither have nor can make it appear that we made Overture to the Parliament to put all our Forces and Garrisons under their sole Command the King unconsulted for whatsoever hath been offered by us unto the Parliament by our Prop sitions and Instructions We are constant thereunto and still ready to performe ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. HAving received your Lordships paper of the 22. of November which we conceive needs no reply we desire to know whether your Lordships will returne any further answer to our first paper of this dayes date Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Io. Clotworthy Rich. Salwey 22. November 1646. VVEE may not returne other Answer then Wee have done in Our former papers untill Wee have Consulted His Majesty and received His Direction therein ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. VVE having heard nothing from you since We sent Our last paper We desire to know whether We shall understand this Treaty to be at an end for the present that if neither Our Propositions sent by Us to the Parliament of England nor the Propositions Wee sent unto you for the stay of your men be assented unto in manner as is Propounded We may consider what further course to take for the preservation of His Majesties Subjects and the Rights of the Crowne ORMONDE 22. Novemb. 1646. IN Answer to your Lordships paper of the 23. of November Wee returne That Wee continue assured there is no other way according to the representation made by your Lordship to the Parliament of preserving the Protestants of the Kingdome of Ireland nor of the Rights thereof relating to the Kingdome of England but by accepting the the Overtures made by us to your Lordship according to Our Papers delivered in Your Lordship insisting upon a positive refusall thereof we understand the Treaty to be at an end And as for the offers lately made by your Lordship to us we refer our selves to our Answer already given thereunto and can in no wise accept of the same Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Rich. Salwey FINIS