〈◊〉 Passages of the House of LORDS In the Winter Desâ—â—â—â— of Parliament in the year 92. Novemb. 1st THe Earles of Hontingdon and Marlebrough complained of their being denyed by the Kings Bench to come out of Prison altho' they had offered Bail accorcording to the Act of Habeas Corpus the Business was referred to a Committe who were impower'd to send for Papers Persons and Records And the Lord Lucas was ordered to produce the Warrants for Commitment of both the said Earls also the Clerk of the Kings Bench was ordered to bring to the Committe the Affidavit of Aaron Smith upon which the Lords had been Remanded back to Prison 10th After a very long Debate and the Judges heard in their own defence as well as Aaron Smith upon Oath which he refused to swear till the House was just going to send him to Prison A Committe was ordered to draw up a Resolution in pursuance of the Debate and to present it to the House to â—orrow morning and Aaron Smith also to attend and no other business whatsoever to intervene 11th Upon the Report from the Committe there was another long Debate which was at last Adjournest again till to morrow and all the Judges Ordered to attend 12th Upon the Earle of Scarsdalt's Complaint that his House had been searched the Messenger being sick who 〈◊〉 was ordered to send the Origin I Warrant by vertue of which â—e 〈◊〉 one it and the 〈◊〉 â—â—siness of the three Lords was referred to a Committe of the wâ—â—â— House the Judges 〈◊〉 attend and nothing else to intervene 14th Resolved in the Committe of the whole House That whereas by the Statute 31 Ch. 2d commonly called the Habeas Corpus Act Aâ— Judges and Justices c. 't is now resolved and declared by this House that it is the duty of all the Judges and Justices of Oyer and Terminer and general Goale-Delivery in pursuance of the said Act to set at Liberty the Prisoner on Bail â—f Committed for High Thâ—â—sâ—â— unless it be made appear upon Oath that there are two Witnesses against the said Person who cannot be produced in that Term Sessions or General Goal-Delivery And t is hereby further resolved that in case there shall be more then one Prisoner to be Bailed or Remanded 't is the intention of the said Statute that there must be Oath made that there are two Witnesses against each of such Prisoners in order to remand them to Prison respectively And this Resolution was Ordered to be Recorded in the Books of this House as a Direction to aâ—â—â—udges for the future and to prevent all excuse for any such Illegal Proceedings for the future 〈◊〉 Upon a long Debate about the manner of freeing the several Lords from their Bail before 〈◊〉 House would go upon any other Business whatsoever to prevent it a notice was intimated from the King that he would cause their Bail to be immediatly discharged at which the House 〈…〉 for two dayes that he might haye time to do so before they sat again they being 〈…〉 upon no other Business till that was not only promised but executed 〈…〉 House was â—â—â—orâ—ed by the Lords concerned that their Bail was discharged and as 〈◊〉 ever they had aâ—â—â—inted the House they fell to other Business 18th The House â—ppointed a Committe to draw a Return of Thanks for the Kings Speech which had nâ—â—er yet been so much as taken notice of because of this Business of the Lords and it 〈…〉 only that a handle might be taken for giving Advice to the King to which something in hâ—â— Speech seemed to invite the Lords and the Address was Penn'd soon purpose to thank him for the invitation so that the Lords found themselves ingaged in the Advice before sâ—me of them were well 〈…〉 〈◊〉 â—fter having sate many dayes â—â—der great Controversies about giving advice it was Resolved first that the King should be advised to give the chief Command of the English For câ—â—â—o no man who is not a Subject born in his Majesties Dominions And that Mr. Blaithwait should bring a List of all the General Officers and Troopes upon the And that the Chief Officers of the Ordnance shall send a List of all Officers belonging to the same as also an Account of the Stores and what hath been delivered out these two last years And that the Keeper of the Paper-Office in Whitehall send the Capitulation made between the English and Dutch in 1674. 29th Ordered that the Commissioners of the Admiralty shall send all such Orders and Letters and Instructions as were sent to the Admiral last Summer and Particularly those which relate to the Descent and the Answers thereunto and also Coppies of such Letters or Orders as have been sent by the Commanders in Chief to Inferior Officers in Relation to the intended Descent or to the pursuite after the Fight at Sea That the Commissioners for the Transport Ships send an Account of all they have done concerning these Matters That the King be desired to direct that all the Orders and Papers sent by the Privy Council or by the Secretary of State relating to the last Summers Expedition at Sea and the full account of all the Transactions be laid before this House and Particularly all such Orders and Papers as relate to the intended Descent 30th The King sent Word that he had directed it accordingly The Commissioners of Accounts Establisht by Parliament were ordered to send them in Signed by five of them at the least and they were sent in accordingly Decemb. 1st The Officers of the Ordnance were ordered to bring an Abstract of the Stores two Years ago and what hath been delivered out Since and to put under the Name of every Speâ—â—â— the Summe total as well of the Issues as of what remains And 〈◊〉 send a List of all the â—â—reigners upon their Establishment or employed by them and in what Places 6th The Earle of Nottingham brought in those Papers from the King which being Read 7th There arose along Debate about a Motion for having a Committe of both Houses sit together in order to the better Examination of the last Years Miscarriages the Question being carryed by a very few Votes in the Negative The other Lords Assigned the following Protestation and entred it under their own Hands in the Books of the House A Protestation against the Vote that refused to agree that a Committe of both Houses should sit together First Because his Majesty having particularly and expresly desired the Advice of his Parliament at this time when he so much seems to need it no other Methods was nor in our Opinions could be proposed by which the two Houses might so well and so speedily be brought to that concurrance which is necessary to render their Advice Effectual 2dly Because it appears by some Papers already imparted to this House that severaâ—â—â—â—â—mbers of the House of Commons are concern'd in the Matters before us as having been so lately employed in his
in the House of Câ—â—mons and sent up to the Lords in the Winter Sessions of Parliament Anno 1692. as it was tâ—â—â— in short hand My Lords THis Debate is of so very great consequence that I resolved to be silent and rather tâ—â— advised by the ability of others then to show my own want of it Besides it is of soâ—â— a Nature that I who speak always unpremeditately apprehend extreamly saying any thâ—â— which may be thought the lest reflecting tho even that ought not to restrain a man here frâ—â— doing ones duty to the publick in a Business where it seems to be so highly concerned I have always heard I have always read that Foreign Nations and all this part of the wâ—â—â— have admired and envied the Constitution of this Government For not to speak of the Kâ—â—â— Power here is a House of Lords to advise him on all important Occasions about Peace or Wâ—â—â— about all things that may concern the Nation the care of which is very much intrusted to 〈◊〉 Lordships But yet because your Lordships cannot be so conversant with the generality o◠〈◊〉 People nor so constantly in the Country as is necessary for that purpose here is a Hous◠〈◊〉 Commons also chosen by the very people themselves newly come from among them or shâ—â—â— be so to represent all their Grievances to express the true mind of the Nation and to disâ—â—â— of their Money at least so far as to begin all Bills of that nature if I am not mistaken the 〈◊〉 writ for Election sent down to the Sheriffs does impower them to chuse what their Representaâ—â—â— Now my Lords I beseech you to consider the meaning of that word Representative Is i◠〈◊〉 do any thing contrary to their mind it would be absurd to suppose it and yet how can 〈◊〉 â—â—herwise if they after being chosen change their dependency ingage themselves in Employments plainly inconsistent with that great trust reposed in them and that I will take the liberty â—o demonstrate to your Lordships they now do at least according to my humble opinion I will instance first in the least and lowest incapacity they must be under who so takes imployments Your Lordships all know but too well what a general carelessness there appears every day more and more in the publick Business if so how is it likely that men should be as diligent in their Duty in Parliament as that Business requires where imployments and a great deal of other business shall take up both their minds and their time But then in some cases 't is worse as in Commands of the Army and other Imployments of that kind when they must have a divided Duty for it does admirably become an Officer to â—it Voting away Money in a House of Commons while his Soldiers are perhaps taking it away at their Quarters for want of his presence to restrain them and of better Discipline among them Nay perhaps his Troop or Regiment may be in some Action abroad and he must either have the shame of being absent from them at such a time or from that House where he is intrusted with our Liberties To this I have heard but one Objection by a noble Lord that if this Act should pass the King â—s not allowed to make a Captain a Collonel without disabling him to sit in Parliament Truly if a Captain has only deserved to be advanced for exposing himself in Parliament 〈◊〉 think the Nation would have no great loss in the Kings letting alone such a Preferment But my Lords there is another sort of incapacity yet worse then this I mean that of Parliament Mens having such Places in the Exchequer as the very profit of them depends on the Money given to the King in P rliament Would any of your Lordships send and intrust a Man to make a Bargain for you whose very interest shall be to maâ—e you give as much as he can possibly It puts me in mind of a Farce where an Actor holds a Dialogue with himself speaking first in one Tone and then answering himself in another Really my Lords this is no Farce for t is no laughing matter to undoe a Nation but t is altogether as unnatural for a Member of Parliament to ask first in the Kings name for such a sort of supply give an Account from him of how much is needful towards the paying such an Army or such a Fleet and then immediatly give by his ready Vote what he had before asked by his Masters order Besides my Lords there is such a necessity now for long sitting of Parliaments and the very Priviledges belonging to Members are of so great extent that it would be a little hard and unequal to other Gentlemen they should have all the places also All the Objections that have been made may be reduced to these First t is told us that t is a disrespect to the King that his Servants or Officers should be excluded To this I desire it may be considered that t is in this case as when a Tenant sends up any body to treat for him would any of your Lordships think it a disrespect nay would the King himself think it any if the Tenant would not wholly refer himself to one of your own Servants 〈◊〉 to the Kings Commissioners in the case of the Crown And if he chuses rather some plain 〈◊〉 â—est Friend of his own to supply his absence here will any man blame such a Proceeding or â—â—â—â—k it unmannerly Besides your Lordships know this Act admits them to be chosen notwithstanding their imployments provided the Electors know it first and are not deceived in their choice All we would prevent is that a good rich Corporation should not chuse to Intrust with all their Libertys a plain honest Country Neighbour and find him within six Months changed into 〈◊〉 prefer'd cunning Courtier who shall tyd them to their Choâ—ce tho he is no more the same man than if he were turned Papist which by the Law as it stands already puts an incapacity upon him Another Objection is that this Act may by its Consequence prolong this Parliament which they allow would be a very great Grievance and yet suppose the King capable of putting it upon us which I have too much Respect for him to admit of tho I am glad howeveâ— that t is objected by Privy Counsellers in favour who consequently I hope will never advise 〈◊〉 thing which they now exclaim against as so great a Grievance But pray my Lords what should tempt the King to so ill a policy Can he fear a freedom of Choice in a people to whose good will he owes all his Power which these Lords suppose he may use to their Prejudice And therefore give me leave to say as I must not suspect him of so ill a Design as the Perpetuating this Parliament so he cannot he ought not to suspect a Nation so intirely I was going tâ— say so fondly Devoted to him My Lords O Man
Majesties Service and we conceive it the easiest properest and fairest way of Communication between the two Houses to have so great and important Business transacted and prepared in a Committe so chosen 3dly Because it cannot be expected that so many Members of the House 〈◊〉 from whom we shall need Information can in any other manner be here present so often 〈◊〉 with the leave of their House as will be necessary for a sufficient Enquiry into the severâ—â—â—â—â—â—s now under Consideration 4thly Because if the House of Commons intend also to give Advice to his Majesty t is very probable that both Houses of Parliament may receive such Information severally as will be thought fit to be communicated as soon as possible and we conceive no way of doing that can beâ—â— proper or speedy as in a Committe of both Houses 5thly Because in a time of such iminent Danger to the â—ation by reason so many Miscarriages as are supposed generally to have been committed the closest and strictest Union of 〈◊〉 Houses is absolutely necessary to redeem us from all that Ruine which we have too mâ—â—â— cause to fear is coming upon us Decemb. 8th The Earle of Nottingham brought his own Book of Entries with Mr. Russels Leâ—ers and Copies of his own to Mr. Russel of all which a List was taken and all of them reâ—erred to a Committe 9th Another Committe appointed to examine what way might be found for the House to â—peak with a Member of the House of Commons or to have him before a Committe 10th Sir John Ashby was examined at the Barr then it was reported from the Committe that they had found an Expedient which was Debated and at last resolved on And another Committe ordered to prepare something to be delivered at a Conference together with all the Letters c. 19th The Lord President ordered to deliver the Papers c. And to say as followeth We by Command of the House of Commons are often mentioned in the said Papers from whom possibly you may be more particularly informed of the Matters contained in them 21st The House of Commons at another Conference told the House of Lords that they had Read and well considered those Papers which they had sent them and finding Mr. Russel a Member of their House often mentioned in them the Commons unanimously came to this Resolution That Admiral Russel in his Command of the Fleet during the last Summers Expediton has behaved himself with Fidelity and Conduct 22. A Committe to inspect the Books in relation to a true Conference and particularly whether there have been any free Conferences desired with the Commons when the Houses diâ— not disagree â—â—th Reported from that Committe that they had found some Presidents for it as followeth Aug. 9th 1660. The Commons desired a Conference about a Business of great Importance without any Disagreement Aug. 13. 1660. The Lords desired a Conference about the same Business without any Disagreement Sept. 1. 1660 A Free Conference was desired by the Commons upon the same Subject still without any Disagreement July 29 1660. A free Conference was desired by the Lords about the same Bill without Disagreement ' and another Conference was desired by the Commons the same day After a long Debate another Committe was appointed to inspect Presidents whether the Resolution of the House of Commons delivered at the last Conference be according to the usual Proceedings of Parliament and to consider of Heads to be delivered at a free Conference on than subject 31. The Question was put whether the Bill for impartial Proceeding in Parliament should 〈◊〉 â—â—â—mitted and it was carried in the Affirmative by 15 Votes Then it was put whether they should now proceed upon it and it was carried in the Negative July 1st A Free Conference desired by the Lords who told the Commons that their Hose â—â—â—â—unicating to the House of Lords at a Conferance a Vote of theirs upon Matter of Fact only without giving any Reasons for it is not according to the usual Proceedings in Parliaâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 â—â—â—sure it seems they took putiently and without making the least reply 〈…〉 of those Lords who Signed the several Protestations with Reasons in this Sessions of 〈…〉 which Names under their own Hands together with the Reasons in the Publick 〈◊〉 of that House Mulgrave Rivers Warrington Denbeigh Thanet Alisbury c. to the number of 40. An Account relating to some of the Affairs in Ireland given by Mr. Sloane To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled IN â—bedience to your Lordships Commands I humbly give this Account of some things I have seen and Observed or credibly heard of the Affairs of that Uunfortunate Kingdom out of which by your Lordships direction I shall omit many other things which I have only by Informations Tho' I believe the same may be well proved concerning the State and Affairs of that Kingdom And if this shall be of any publick service either to this or that Kingdom I shall reckon it more then a reward sufficient to repair any Injury can be done me on this account It was in August last I went into Ireland partly on own private Business and partly to settle some Affairs relating to my Lord Lisburn who had left me one of his Executors and Trusteeâ— of his Estate and being there was chosen a Member of the House of Commons which was the chief occasion of my seeing or observing what I did on this unfortunate Subject 1. One of the great Grievances and that which is most immediatly felt by the subjects there I take to be that the Army there have not been better pay'd and that by reason thereof since the War ended they have been contrary to known Laws as they said for want of Pay and subsistance in many places of that Kingdom necessitated often to take free Quarter not only for Meat and Drink and Lodging but to supply themselves with Cloaths and other necessarys have Taxed exacted and received from the Country great Sums of Money and where the same was not paid in many places cistrained for the same Of which I heard manâ— Complaints and that few or none could ever get any Redress And on that account I believe there is due to the Country above 200000 l. which hath tended to the ruine of many Persons and Families there And if this were an end of it that which is past might be the easter forgot But as I am credibi informed by the late Accounts from thence Free Quarters and taxing the Subject is in divers places continued to this time or some few Weeks since And if not prevented for the future by the better Pay and Order of the Army may tend to the great impoverishment and destruction of that Kingdom Yet I am not surprized it should be so for it was publickly told us in the House of Commons as I remember by Mr. Pâ—ultney and Mr. Davids concerned in or about the Government there