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A36115 A discourse upon questions in debate between the King and Parliament. With certaine observations collected out of a treatise called, The diffrence between Christian subjection, and unchristian rebellion. Bilson, Thomas, 1546 or 7-1616. True difference betweene Christian subjection and unchristian rebellion. 1643 (1643) Wing D1625; ESTC R14262 15,515 16

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the punishment of Delinquents and conservation of the peace and Liberty of the Subject they had never risen up into so high requests but take the Argument at the best it followes not that the Parliament intends to assume Soveragne Authority because when Ireland is in Rebellion England in combustion Scotland scarce quieted France and Spaine in Armes they do humbly supplicate his Majesty to entrust for a short and limited time the Militia under the commands of persons of Honour that the Lords and Commons those whose blood and es●a●es must defend the State may repose saith in yet this is not to be granted and the feares and jealousies of his Majesties best Kingdome and most obedient Subjects held so unworthy of any regard or satisfaction that they are esteemed and so published for frivolous and false pretended meerly to obtain an unjust purchase out of the Kings prerogative For the nomination of prime Officers Councellours and Judges I presume that request results out of the precedent misgovernment and is intended onely for this time And peradventure the temper will be better for the people that the King being once invironed with a wise and religious Councell appoint Judges and publique Officers whom the people may if there be cause accuse and the Parliament judge nor would this branch of the Kings prerogative been reached at by the people if the Judges who ought to be conservators of the Lawes● had not been the destroyers If the counsell of a few even in Parliament time had not involved the whole state in a common calamity and contested with the Grand Counsell of the Kingdome assuming to t●emselves more zealous affection to his Majesty a greater care of the Common-wealth and a better di●cerning what was necessary and fit for both Yet the election of publike Officers is not without president in the times of former Kings But I would not have those Kings presidents to his Majesty that such demands may not be president to us Concerning the perpetuall Dictatorship of the Parliament It may be deman●ed● why is the work prolonged by them who aske why are you so long at worke why are Delinquents protected by what meanes are difficulties objected How comes t●is Rebellion in Ireland why doth the Parliament spe●d time in providing for their own safety which ought to be spent in redresse of publique disorders and vindication of the Subjects from oppression doe they pretend feare because they would rule Let his Majesty render those feares apparently false and concur more hartily than they in securing the Kingdome Let him grant Commissions for Ireland let him grant guards for the Parliament as well to secure their feare as their danger Why should his Majesty confirme their feares by discharging their Guards and attemping their persons If he know them to be safe● let them know it also or confute their fear to the understanding of the whole Kingdome by granting their owne wayes of security the next way to dete●t those apparitions of feare if they be false And when the Religion of our Church is vindicated The vigour of our Lawes renewed A Guard of strength and terror provided for their future preservation The Rebellion in Ireland quelled His Majesties revenue examined and repaired particular Delinquents punished The Court of Justice reformed The banks founded by the industry of our Ancesters with so much blood and treasure against the inundations of the prerogative or malignity of private counsels repai●ed and better fortified then let us see what pretence will be made for continuation of the Session still The English Nation will not doubtlesse sell their birth-right for a messe of pottage Nor chang the government of a Prince time nor story remembring any other in these Kingdomes of extraction so i●lustrious of a title so indubitable to be ruled by their equall peradventure inferiour neighbours To that allegation that this assembly is no Parliament in the Kings absence if it be understood when he is not present● it is an opinion so ancient as since his Majesty left the Parliament for before I am perswade● it was never heard of And it must follow thereupon as hath been answered ●efore that by the accedentall absence of the prince● or in sickne●●es that induce stupifaction or in the first degrees of infancy when the pow●● of the reasonable soul have no latitude of operation the state may be left without means to preserve it self which is a great obsurditie to think But if by the Kings absence be undestood the want of his voluntary concurrence in confirmation of the Acts and Ordinances of both houses and that in such cases they are no Parliament it may well be doubted if they have bin any Parliament during this Session For the acts that have passed his Royall ascent so much amplified in his late declarations to the people are shrodely suspected to be with no great good liking of his Majestie I am sure if they were voluntary they were not exhibited with due circumstances for through that opinion his Majestie hath lost much of the thanks due for such transcendent graces which no Prince or inferior person ought in discretion to loose However that both houses legally convened and authorised to sit do not by the Kings absence loose the essence and denomination of a Parliament appears by presidents of former times when in the absence of a Prince further distant in body then his Majestie is in minde I hope the estates have assembled themselves which is a little higher then was yet in dispute have administred oathes of fealtie to the subject have named officers for publique services and as well to superintend the peace of the Kingdom as the revenue of the King And though there was not nor is any law authorising the assembling of a parliament in such a case yet was the legallity of that parliament never questioned nor will of any other upon the same or the like occasion when the matter to be treated on is the peace and safety of the Kingdome whether the King be absent in body or minde it changes not the question much But which is a short answer to all that can be said is that by an Act of all the estates this Parliament is not disolveable but by an Act of all the estates therefore a Parliament untill that Act be passed To the other part of the allegation that Major part of both Houses have left the rest and are gone over to the King It may be demanded why doth not then his Majesty send them up to adjourn the Parliament to Oxford or Cambridge are they so fearfull of the Aprentizes of London that they dare not appear to do his Majestie so great a service by shouting a yea or no in the house of Commons how willingly would they adventure a battell that refuse to speak a word in a croud Truly it were the way to put an end to all the controversie to reverse with ease the acts that have given so great cause of
friends and enemies for how hardly can that ma● be thought an enemy who studies nothing so much as to enlarge the power and advance the pro●it of his Prince Yet the abundant services of some have more mischiefe to their Masters than forraign armes or combination ever could was it not taken for good service to invent a new revenue of 200000. l. per annum to supply the wasted tents of the Crowne And would not he have bin esteemed rather a foole than no friend to the Kings profit that had advised to lay that downe after it was once or twice paid Yet in his Majesties own judgment that tax had better never bin And it had never bin if the advise had never bin And the advice had never bin or not bin pernitious If the King had received the same from the greater councell as he did then from the lesse I am of opinion though it rain not in Egypt yet the inundations of Nilus are caused by raine in another region And the black clouds that hung over Scotland and their troubled waters made them think it rained som where and provide for the storm for doubtlesse if the motion ●o ab●olute dominion and ruine of all laws had not been so visible and swift in England as it was The new Service book had never brought so many thousands Scots over Tweed We may then conclude upon the whole matter That that physicke was not good that brought the body of the Common-wealth into so great distemper That the people though a moveable body like the Ocean yet never swe●l ●ut when blowne upon by intemperate windes That that councell which hath caused the King to stake his Crowne and the Kingdomes their safety now the third time That hath contested with the great Councell for precedency in the Kings judgement and hath obtained it That broke the last Parliament by the King and would breake this by the Kingdom Is not good for us nor for those discree● Gentlemen if they understood their owne interest that labour so much to ●upport it But that in every case wherein the generall state of the Kingdom is concerned the advise ●h●t the body of the Kingdome gives upon a view taken of it selfe is not onely least erronious but by the Law not presum'd to erre Neither can the suggestion● made against this Parliament indissoluble but by co●sent any way availe to countena●ce a forci●le dissolution That they have too much handled the flowers of the Crowne those that adorne the pe●son ●f not constitute the office of the King That they go about to erect a new Aristocraticall government or rather a Tyrannicall of 5. or 600. That this Assembly is no Parliament His Majesty dissenting that the Major part of both Hous●s are gone to the King or have left the rest the remnant are a faction To the first it is answered before that those rights of the Crowne whic● are by the positive and expresse Lawes of the Land vested in the King to uses are not questioned except in case where it is manifest that the uses have been prevented And in that case no more is required but that the breache● be repaired and that the influences of his Majesties Government may be transmitted unto the people by better Mediums which is no prejudice to hi● Majastie unlesse he imagine that he ought not to grant it because it is desired That he is bound to relieve the people but not at the peoples reques● We will take it for granted that in any case it onely appertaines to our Soveraigne Lord the King to defend wearing of Arms The use of this power vested in his Majesty is for defence of himself an● subjects and can h●ve no other intendment by Law and reason but suppose that by evill Councell that may be about a Prince by his own unwise Election or Gods appointment when he gives Princes bad Councellours or people ba● Princes for scourges to wanton and corrupted Nations this power is imployed to divide the Kingdome against it selfe one Faction sees this power lodged in the person of the Prince but never observes to what end so sides with him Another insist upon the end for which he was trusted and defend themselves by Arms Faction begets Civill warre Civill warre dissolves the present Government After followes a forraigne yoke● if our neighbour Nations be not fast asleepe or otherwise imployed In this expectation and in the ve●y minute when this imminent tempest is breaking upon our heads the representative bodie of the Kingdome prostrates it selfe at his Majesties feet a●d beseech him to change not the Government but a few subordinate Governours that he will shine upon his people through transparant and unblemished chrystall glasses not through Sanguine Murry and Azure which make the Ayre and Objects beheld to seeme bloody and blue Assuring him there is no other way to calme the Seas that begin to rage and to preserve from wreck the ship of the Common-wealth wherein his Majestie is himself imbarqued and is the greatest adventurer Now come in he Malignant Councellours and tell his Majestie that these humble Supplications will if he yeeld to them turne to Injunctions Ease them and do them right s●y they but not at the requst of Parliament Which is no lesse th●n to place him in a condition to do what he shal think to be right That is w●at he shal be advised by them is right That is in many cases what ambition hatred covetousnesse luxurie lecherie suggest to be right That is flat tyrannie more absolute than the Turks For the Introdu●tion of a new forme of Government the Arguments are That if the Parliament draw to it selfe the Jurisdiction of the maritime and land ●orces the power to name Councellours and Judges● or prescribe a rule for their nomination To make Lawes for t is all one if the King may not deny those that are presented to him by both Houses to perpetuate the sitting of this Parliament The Soveraignty hath if these be allowed made no secret but a very apparant transition from the person of the King into the persons of the Parliament men The Subjects of this Kingdome have never had one Example of a Parliament that hath gone about to make themselves Lords over their Brethren And if they would they cannot for when they forsake the duty o● their place● and the interest of the Kingdome the Kingdome will forsake them and sometimes before which though the people have dearly repented yet it serves to prove that the subsistance of a Parliament is impossible if dominion or any other end be perceived then Reformation and preservation of the Common-wealth In the Minority and absence of former Kings● opportunity was farre more favourable for such a designe then at this present yet what Prince was ever hurt by his infan●y or absence when they were trusted both with his dignity and revenue And t is out of question if his Majesty had been clearely concurrent with this Parliament for
repentance to reduce the Parliament to termes of due obedience to save a multitude of offenders to weede out of both houses those factious members that insist so obstinately upon a trust reposed in them to distill out of the delinquent City of London much cordiall water to save the labour charge and hazards of warre to save the purses persons and horses of the willing Gentry who labour for those fetters such is the understanding of this time that their Fathers swet to be rid from For if armes be raised onely against a smal malignant party a faction of a few Parliament men The Major number would quickly deliver them up and what place could afford safety for them against the Ire of his Majesty and both Houses of Parliament To such as put these Questions What is the power and priviledge of Parliament by what Law doe they impose Orders upon the people without the Kings Assent they seeme to me like them that dispute how legally the next houses are pulled downe when the flame and windes make cruell vastation in the beautifull buildings of a populous Citie They are honest m●n and would faine be thought wise but I doubt it is not in the o be of their understa●ding to comprehend● what power resides in the vast body of the people and how unlimitedly that power operates when it is animated by danger for preservation of it selfe A man may make the same observation upon them that is made upon Cato who pleaded the Lawes and usages of peaceable times when the liberty of that Common-wealth was at the last ●aspe and would not be drove off it till it was too late his argument was this in effect That the Authors of Lawes for preservation of the Common-wealth may not preserve it but by their owne Creature This was Cato his error and is so confessed by all men yet I take it he was a better Statesmen then these disputants The King was admitted Judge of the danger of the Common-wealth before the Parliament and it was appara●t for no other reason but the better to levy mony Shall the Parliament sitting be a lesse compatent Judge As though a Physitian that saith you are not well though you do not perceive it Give me five or ten peeces I will c●re you shall be the better beleeved then the man that hath been wasted with a Quotidian Fever sixteen yeeres together They talke what the Parliament may doe and what not as though this were the Parliament that made an Act for pavement of an high-way and had little other worke Truely if the regulation of a Trade or creation of a Tenure or erection of a Corporation were the Question in a peaceable time it were easily resolved that the Kings demurre should stand for a denia●l but to say the Kingdome may not defend and secure it selfe who ever saith to the contrary is to fight against the oldest and best knowne Law in nature the Center of all Lawes and the inseparable right of all Kingdomes Corporations and Creatures But they say the Kingdome is in no such danger who is a better Judge the repres●ntative body of the Kingdom it selfe not those that say so Who like a man that standing upon the beach at Dover will not beleeve that the Sea hath any shore towards Fra●co untill he be brought to the top of the Hill It is not within their view to tell better then the Parliament whether there be danger or not His Majestie indeed hath the most eminent place to observe what Collection of Clouds are in any quarter of the Heaven and what weather it wi●● be but his calculations supposed to be made by others from a lower ground are therefore not so well beleeved But be it in danger or none it matters not much the Lawes have been in danger● none will deny and were recovered by another danger or had been lost I● it be now peace as th●se men say it is the better time to secure them● if it be not peace it is well to save the Common-wealth by any means whatsoever and if the King concurre not so speedily as the occasion requires the b●ame is not theirs that go before for his preservation and their own To make an end I wish an union of the three Kingdomes under the same Government● Ecclesiasticall and Cavell if it be possible that this Crowne having three such supporters and surrounded with the salt waters at Unitie at Libertie at Peace in it self may not fear the whole forces of the disjoynted contenent of Europe That his Majestie would understand his Interest to be to unite not to divide his Subjects and to remember with what Tropheyes the magnanimous Princes of former times have adorned their Funerals and Fame That he will chuse rather to fight in the head of the Brittish Armies for restitution of his Nephews to their lost inheritance than imploy them here to pillage and destroy his own subjects That he will first command the hearts then the persons then the estates of his subjects and not begin at the wrong end That in the Parliament may reside a Spirit of that Latitude and Noblenesse which ought to dwell in an Assembly of so much Honour and Gravitie That just things be done for justice sake without bowing lesse or more for the raging of popular surges in the South● or for the cold winds that blow from the North That the conditions of peace may not be enhansed by any prosperous successe but like the Noble Romane before and after the victorie the same That his Majestie may be convinced of the Errour of his private Councels by finding in the Grand Councell a quiet repose and a stable foundation of peace and plentie to his Royall Person and Familie And lastly since his Majestie and his people thus divided cannot be happie that with all convenient Expedition such as have studied this division between the Head and the Body may h●ve their heads divided from their bodies So farewell Certain Observations Collected out of a Treatise called The difference between Christian Subjection and unchristian Rebellion Compiled by that judicious and learned Divine Tho Bilson then Warden of Winchester since Bishop there necessary in these times to be perused Theophilus the Christian Philander the Jesuite Theop. CAses may fall out even in Christian Kingdomes where the people may plead their right against the Prince and not be charged with Rebellion Phil. As when for example Theop. If a Prince should goe about to subject his Kingdome to a foraigne Realme or change the forme of the Common-wealth from impery to tyranny or neglect the Lawes established by common consent of Prince and People to execute his owne pleasure in these and other Cases which might be named if the Nobles and Commons joyne together to defend their ancient and accustomed liberty Regiment and Lawes they may not well be counted Rebels Phil. You denied that even now when I did urge it Theop. I denied that Bishops had authority to prescraibe Conditions to Kings when they Crowned them but I never denyed that the People might preserve the foundation freedome and forme of their Common-wealth which they foreprized when they first consented to have a King I never said that Kingdomes and Common-wealths might not proportion their States as they thought best by their publique Lawes which afterwards the Princes themselves may not violate By superiour powers ordained of God we understand not onely Princes but all politicke States and Regiments somewhere the People somewhere the Nobles having th esame interest to the sword that Princes have in their Kingdomes and in Kingdomes where Princes beare rule by the sword we doe not mean the Princes private wil against his Laws but his precept desired from his aws agreeing with his Laws which though it be wicked yet it may not be resisted of any Subject with armed violence Marry when Princes offer thei● Subjects no● justice but force and despize all Lawes to practice their lusts not every nor any private man may take the sword to redresse the Prince but if the Lawes of the Land appoint the Nobles as next to the King to assist him in doing right and with-hold him from doing wrong then they be licensed by mans Law and so not prohibited by Gods to interpose themselves for the safe-guard of equity and innocence and by all lawfull and needfull meanes to procure the Prince to be reformed but in no case deprived where the Scepter is inherited c. FINIS Allowed by publike Anthority to be set forth as in the title page may appear The third part pag 279. verbatim In some Cases the Nobles commons may stand for the Publike Regiment and Lawes of their Countrey Christian Kingdomes may settle their States with common consent of Prince and people which the Prince alone cannot alter The Princes sword his Law not his ●ust Princes may be stayed from tyranny by their own Realmes though not deposed