was a putting of themselves into Arms and under Officers such as the Parliament should approve of Fourthly They Voted that His Majesty should be again desir'd that the Prince might continue about London Lastly They Voted a Declaration to be sent to His Majesty by both the Houses wherein they accuse His Majesty of a design of altering Religion though not directly Him but them that counsel'd Him whom they also accus'd of being the Inviters and Fomenters of the Scotch War and Framers of the Rebellion in Ireland And upbraid the King again for accusing the Lord Kimbolton and the Five Members and of being privy to the purpose of bringing up His Army which was rais'd against the Scots to be employ'd against the Parliament To which His Majesty replied from Newmarket Whereupon it was Resolv'd by both Houses That in this Case of extream Danger and of His Majesties Refusal the Ordinance agreed upon by both Houses for the Militia doth oblige the People by the Fundamental Laws of this Kingdom And also that whosoever should execute any Power over the Militia by colour of any Commission of Lieutenancy without Consent of both Houses of Parliament shall be accounted a Disturber of the Peace of the Kingdom Whereupon His Majesty sent a Message to both Houses from Huntingdon Requiring Obedience to the Laws Established and Prohibiting all Subjects upon pretence of their Ordinance to Execute any thing concerning the Militia which is not by those Laws warranted Upon this the Parliament Vote a standing to their former Votes as also That when the Lords and Commons in Parliament which is the Supreme Court of Judicature in the Kingdom shall declare what the Law of the Land is to have this not only questioned but contradicted is a high Breach of the Priviledge of Parliament B. I thought that he that makes the Law ought to declare what the Law is for what is it else to make a Law but to declare what it is so that they have taken from the King not only the Militia but also the Legislative Power A. They have so But I make account the Legislative Power and indeed all Power possible is contain'd in the Power of the Militia After this they seize such Mony as was due to His Majesty upon the Bill of Tunnage and Poundage and upon the Bill of Subsidies that they might disable him every way they possibly could They sent Him also many other contumelious Messages and Petitions after His coming to York amongst which one was That whereas the Lord Admiral by indisposition of Body could not command the Fleet in Person He would be pleased to give Authority to the Earl of Warwick to supply his place when they knew the King had put Sir John Pennington in it before B. To what End did the King entertain so many Petitions Messages Declarations and Remonstrances and vouchsafe His Answers to them when He could not choose but clearly see they were resolv'd to take from Him His Royal Power and consequently His Life For it could not stand with their safety to let either Him or His Issue live after they had done Him so great Injuries A. Besides this the Parliament had at the same time a Committee residing at York to spie what His Majesty did and to inform the Parliament thereof and also to hinder the King from gaining the People of that County to His Party so that when His Majesty was Courting the Gentlemen there the Committee was Instigating of the Yeomanry against himâ— to which also the Ministers did very much contribute so that the King lost his opportunity at York B. Why did not the King seize the Committee into his hands or drive them out of his Town A. I know not but I believe he knew the Parliament had a greater Party than he not only in Yorkshire but also in York Towards the End of April the King upon Petition of the People of Yorkshire to have the Magazine of Hull to remain still there for the greater security of the Northern Parts thought fit to take it into his own hands He had a little before appointed Governor of the Town the Earl of Newcastle but the Townsmen having been already corrupted by the Parliament refused to receive him but refus'd not to receive Sir John Hotham appointed to be Governor by the Parliament The King therefore coming before the Town Guarded only by a few of his own Servants and a few Gentlemen of the Country thereabouts was deny'd Entrance by Sir John Hotham that stood upon the Wall for which Act he presently caused Sir John Hotham to be proclaim'd Traytor and sent a Message to the Parliament requiring Justice to be done upon the said Hotham and that the Town and Magazine might be delivered into his hands To which the Parliament made no Answer but instead thereof published another Declaration in which they omitted nothing of their former Slanders against His Majesties Government but inserted certain Propositions declarative of their own pretended Right viz. I. That whatsoever they declare to be Law ought not to be question'd by the King II. That no Precedent can be Limits to bound their Proceedings III. That a Parliament for the Publick Good may dispose of any thing wherein the King or Subject hath a Right and that they without the King are this Parliament and the Judge of this Publick Good and that the King's consent is not necessary IV. That no Member of either House ought to be troubled for Treason Felony or any other Crime unless the Cause be first brought before the Parliament that they may judge of the Fact and give leave to proceed if they see Cause V. That the Sovereign Power resides in both Housâ—s and that the King ought to have no Negative Voice VI. That the Levying of Forces against the Personal Commands of the King though accompanied with his presence is not Levying War against the King but the Levying of War against his Politique Person viz. his Laws c. VII That Treason cannot be committed against his Person otherwise than as he is intrusted with the Kingdom and discharges that Trust and that they have a Power to judge whether he hath discharged his Trust or not VIII That they may dispose of the King when they will B. This is plain-dealing and without hypocrisie Could the City of London swallow this A. Yes and more too if need be London you know has a great Belly but no palate nor taste of Right and Wrong In the Parliament Roll of Henry IV. amongst the Articles of the Oath the King at his Coronation took there is one runs thus Concedes Justas Leges Consuetudines esse tenendas promitos per te eas esse protegendas ad honorem Dei corroborandas quas Vulgus elegerit Which the Parliament urged for their Legislative Authority and therefore interpret quas Vulgus elâ—gerit which the People shall choose as if the King should swear to protect and corroborate Laws before they were
the next morning He took Banbury Castle and from thence went to Oxford and thence to Brentford where he gave a great Defeat to Three Regiments of the Parliaments Forces and so return'd to Oxford B. Why did not the King go on from Brentford A. The Parliament upon the first notice of the King 's marching from Shrewsbury caused all the Trained Bands and the Auxiliaries of the City of London which were so frighted as to shut up all their shops to be drawn forth so that there was a complete and numerous Army ready for the Earl of Essex that was crept into London just at that time to head it and this was it that made the King retire to Oxford In the beginning of February after Prince Ruport took Cirencester from the Parliament with many Prisoners and many Arms for it was newly made a Magazine And thus stood the business between the King 's and the Parliaments Forces The Parliament in the mean time caused a Line of Communication to be made about London and the Suburbs of 12 miles in compass and constituted a Committee for the Assotiation and the putting into a posture of defence the Counties of Essex Cambridge Suffolk and some others and one of those Commissioners was Oliver Cromwel from which employment he came to his following greatness B. What was done during this time in other Parts of the Countrey A. In the West the Earl of Stamford had the employment of putting in execution the Ordinance of Parliament for the Militia and Sir Ralph Hopton for the King executed the Commission of Array Between those two was fought a Battel at Liscard in Cornwal where Sir Ralph Hopton had the Victory and presently took a Town called Saltash with many Arms and much Ordnance and many Prisoners Sir William Waller in the mean time seized Winchester and Chichester for the Parliament In the North for the Commission of Array my Lord of Newcastle and for the Militia of the Parliament was my Lord Fairfax My Lord of Newcastle took from the Parliament Tadcaster in which were a great part of the Parliaments Forces for that County and had made himself in a manner Master of all the North about this time that is to say in February the Queen landed at Barlington and was conducted by my Lord of Newcastle and the Marquis of Montross to York and not long after to the King Divers other little advantages besides these had the King's Party of the Parliaments in the North. There hapned also between the Militia of the Parliament the Commission of Array in Staffordshire under my Lord Brook for the Parliament and my Lord of Northampton for the King great contention wherein both these Commanders were slain for my Lord Brook besieging Lichfield-Close was kill'd with a shot notwithstanding which they gave not over the Siege till they were Masters of the Close But presently after my Lord of Northampton besieged it again for the King which to relieve Sir William Brereston and Sir John Gell advanced towards Lichfield and were met at Hopton-heath by the Earl of Northampton and routed the Earl himself was slain but his Forces with Victory return'd to the Siege again and shortly after seconded by Prince Rupert who was then abroad in that Countrey carried the place These were the chief Actions of this year 164â— wherein the King's Party had not much the worse B. But the Parliament had now a better Army insomuch that if the Earl of Essex had immediately followed the King to Oxford not yet well fortified he might in all likelihood have taken it for he could not want either Men or Ammunition whereof the City of London which was wholly at the Parliaments devotion had store enough A. I cannot judge of that but this is manifest considering the estate the King was in at his first marching from York when He had neither Money nor Men nor Arms enough to put Him in hope of Victory that this year take it altogether was very prosperous B. But what great Folly or Wickedness do you observe in the Parliaments Actions for this first year A. All that can be said against them in that point will be excus'd with the pretext of War and come under one Name of Rebellion saving that when they summoned any Town it was alwayes in the Name of the King and Parliament The King being in the contrary Army and many times beating them from the Siege I do not see how the right of War can justifie such Impudence as that But they pretended that the King was alwayes vertually in the Two Houses of Parliament making a distinction between His Person Natural and Politique which made the Impudence the greater besides the folly of it For this was but an University Quibble such as Boyes make use of in maintaining in the Schools such Tenets as they cannot otherwise defend In the end of this year they sollicited also the Scots to enter England with an Army to suppress the power of the Earl of Newcastle in the North which was a plain Confession that the Parliament Forces were at this time inferior to the Kings and most Men thought that if the Earl of Newcastle had then marched Southward and joined his Forces with the Kings that most of the Members of Parliament would have fled out of England In the beginning of 1643. the Parliament seeing the Earl of Newcastle's power in the North grown formidable sent to the Scots to hire them to an Invasion of England and to Compliment them in the mean time made a Covenant among themselves such as the Scots before had made against Episcopacy and demolished Crosses and Church-windows such as had in them any Images of Saints throughout all England Also in the middle of the year they made a Solemn League with the Nation which was called The Solemn League and Covenant B. Are not the Scots as properly to be called Foreigners as the Irish seeing then they persecuted the Earl of Strafford even to death for advising the King to make use of Irish Forces against the Parliament with what face could they call in a Scotch Army against the King A. The King's Party might easily here have discern'd their design to make themselves absolute Masters of the Kingdom and to dethrone the King Another great Impudence or rather a Bestial Incivility it was of theirs That they Voted the Queen a Traytor for helping the King with some Ammunition and English Forces from Holland B. Was it possible that all this could be done and Men not see that Papers and Declarations must be useless And that nothing could satisfie them but the Deposing of the King and setting up of themselves in His place A. Yes very possible for who was there of them though knowing that the King had the Sovereign Power that knew the Essential Rights of Sovereignty They dreamt of a mixt Power of the King and the Two Houses That it was a divided Power in which there could be no Peace was above their
understanding therefore they were alwayes urging the King to Declarations and Treaties for fear of subjecting themselves to the King in an absolute obedience which increased the hope and courage of the Rebels but did the King little good for the People either understand not or will not trouble themselves with Controversies in writing but rather by his compliance by Messages go away with an opinion That the Parliament was likely to have the Victory in the War Besides seeing that the Penners and Contrivers of those Papers were formerly Members of the Parliament and of another mind and now revolted from the Parliament because they could not bear that sway in the House which they expected Men were apt to think they believed not what they write As for Military Actions to begin at the Head-quarters Prince Rupert took Brinningram a Garison of the Parliaments In July after the King's Forces had a great Victory over the Parliaments near Devizes on Roundway-down where they took 2000 Prisoners four Brass-Pieces of Ordnance 28 Colours and all their Baggage And shortly after Bristol was surrender'd to Prince Rupert for the King and the King Himself marching into the West took from the Parliament many other considerable places But this good fortune was not a little allay'd by His besieging of Glocester which after it was reduc'd to the last gasp was reliev'd by the Earl of Essex whose Army was before greatly wasted but now recruited with Train'd Bands and Apprentices of London B. It seems not only by this but also by many Examples in History That there can hardly arise a long or dangerous Rebellion that has not some such overgrown City with an Army or two in its belly to foment it A. Nay more those great Capital Cities when Rebellion is upon pretence of Grievances must needs be of the Rebel Party because the Grievances are but Taxes to which Citizens that is Merchants whose profession in their private gain are naturally mortal Enemies their onely glory being to grow excessively rich by the wisdom of buying and selling B. But they are said to be of all Callings the most beneficial to the Commonwealth by setting the poorer sort of people on work A. That is to say by making poor people sell their labour to them at their own prizes so that poor people for the most part might get a better Living by working in Bridewell than by spinning weaving and other such labour as they can do saving that by working slightly they may help themselves a little to the disgrace of our Manufacture And as most commonly they are the first Encouragers of Rebellion presuming in their strength so also are they for the most part the first to repent deceiv'd by them that command their strength But to return to the War Though the King withdrew from Glocester yet it was not to flie from but to fight with the Earl of Essex which presently after He did at Newbury where the Battel was bloody and the King had not the worst unless Cirencester be put into the Scale which the Earl of Essex had in his way a few days before surpriz'd But in the North and the West the King had much the better of the Parliament for in the North at the beginning of the year May 29. the Earls of Newcastle and Cumberland defeated the Lord Fairfax who commanded in those Parts for the Parliament at Bramham-moor which made the Parliament to hasten the assistance of the Scots In June following the Earl of Newcastle routed Sir Thomas Fairfax Son to the Lord Fairfax upon Adderton-heath and in pursuit of them to Bradford took and kill'd 2000 Men and the next day took the Town and 2000 Prisoners more Sir Thomas himself hardly escaping with all their Arms and Ammunition and besides this made the Lord Fairfax quit Hallifax and Beverly Lastly Prince Rupert reliev'd Newark besieged by Sir John Meldrum for the Parliament with 7000 Men whereof 1000 were slain the rest upon Articles departed leaving behind them their Arms Bag and Baggage To balance in part this success the Earl of Manchester whose Lieutenant General was Oliver Cromwel got a Victory over the Royalists near Horn-Castle of which he slew 400 took 800 Prisoners and 1000 Arms and presently after took and plundered the City of Lincoln In the West May 16. Sir Ralph Hopton at Stratton in Devonshire had a Victory over the Parliamentarians wherein he took 1700 Prisoners 13 Brass Pieces of Ordnance and all their Ammunition which was 70 Barrels of Powder and their Magazine of their other Provisions in the Town Again at Landsdown between Sir Ralph Hopton and the Parliamentarians under Sir William Waller was fought a fierce Battel wherein the Victory was not very clear on either side saving that the Parliamentarians might seem to have the better because presently after Sir William Waller follow'd Sir Ralph Hopton to Devizes in Wiltshire though to his cost for there he was overthrown as I have already told you After this the King in Person marched into the West and took Exeter Dorcester Barnstable and divers other places and had He not at His Return besieged Glocester and thereby giving the Parliament time for new Levies 't was thought by many He might have routed the House of Commons But the end of this year was more favourable to the Parliament from January the Scots entered England and March the first crossed the Tyne and whil'st the Earl of Newcastle was marching to them Sir Thomas Fairfax gathered together a considerable Party in Yorkshire and the Earl of Manchester from Lyn advanced towards York so that the Earl of Newcastle having two Armies of Rebels behind him and another before him was forced to retreat to York which those three Armies joining presently besieged and these are all the considerable Military Actions in the year 1643. In the same year the Parliament caused to be made a new great Seal the Lord Keeper had carried the former Seal to Oxford Hereupon the King sent a Messenger to the Judges at Westminster to forbid them to make use of it this Meâ—â—enger was taken and condemn'd at a Council of War and Hang'd for a Spie B. Is that the Law of War A. I know not But it seems when a Soldier comes into the Enemies Quarters without address or notice given to the chief Commander that it is presum'd he comes as a Spie The same year when certain Gentlemen at London received a Commission of Array from the King to Levy Men for His Service in that City being discover'd they were Condemn'd and some of them Executed This Case is not unlike the former B. Was not the making of a new great Seal a sufficient proof that the War was raised not to remove evil Councillors from the King but to remove the King Himself from the Government what hope then could there be had in Messages and Treaties A. The Entrance of the Scots was a thing unexpected to the King who was made to believe by continual
which was not only false but also without any ground at all for a Suspicion B. It is a strange thing that Scholars obscure men that could receive no Charity but from the flame of the State should be suffered to bring their unnecessary Disputes and together with them their quarrels out of the Universities into the Commonwealth and more strange that the State should engage in their Parties and not rather put them both to silence A State can constrain Obedience but convince no Error nor alter the Mind of them that believe they have the better reason Suppression of Doctrines does but unite and exasperate that is increase both the malice and Power of them that have already believed them But what are the Points they disagree in Is there any Controversy between Bishop and Presbyterian concerning the Divinity oâ— Humanity of Christ Do either of them deny the Trinity or any Article of the Creed Does either Party Preach openly or Write directly against Justice Charity Sobriety or any other Duty necessary to Salvation except only the Duty to the King and not that neither but when they had a mind either to Rule or Destroy the King Lord have mercy upon us Can no body be saved that understands not their Disputations or is there more requisite either of Faith or Honesty for the Salvation of one Man than another What needs so much Preaching of Faith to us that are no Heathens and that believe already all that Christ and his Apostles have told us is necessary to Salvation and more too Why is there so little Preaching of Justice I have indeed heard Righteousness often recommended to the People but I have seldom heard the word Justice in their Sermons nay though in the the Latine and Greek Bible the word Justice occurr exceeding often yet in the English though it be a word that every man understands the word Righteousness which few understand to signify the same but take it rather for Righteousness of Opinion than of Action or Intention is put in the place of it A. I confess I know very few Controversies amongst Christians of points necessary to Salvation they are the Questions of Authority and Power over the Church or of Profit or Honour to Church-men that for the most part raise all the Controversies For what man is he that will trouble himself and fall out with his Neighbours for the saving of my Soul or the Soul of any other than himself When the Presbyterian Ministers and others did so furiously Preach Sedition and animate men to Rebellion in these late Wars Who was there that had not a Benefit or having one feared not to loose it or some other part of his Maintenance by the alteration of the Government that did voluntarily without any eye to reward Preach so earnestly against Sedition As the other party Preached for it I confess that for ought I have observed in History and other Writings of the Heathens Greek and Latine that those Heathens were not at all short of us in point of Vertue and Moral Duties notwithstanding that we have had much Preaching and they none at all I confess also that considering what harm might proceed form a Liberty that Men have upon every Sunday and oftner to Harangue all the People of a Nation at one time whilst the State is ignorant what they will say and that there is no such thing permitted in all the World out of Christendom nor therefore any Civil Wars about Religion I have thought much Preaching an inconvenience nevertheless I cannot think that Preaching to the People the points of their Duty both to God and Man can be too frequent so it be done by Grave Discreet and Antient men that are Reverenced by the People and not by light quibling young men whom no Congregation is so simple as to look to be taught by as being a thing contrary to nature or to pay them any Reverence or to care what they say except some few that may he delighted with their Jingling I wish with all my Heart there were enough of such Discreet and Antient men as might suffice for all the Parishes of England and that they would undertake it but this is but a wish I leave it to the wisdom of the State to do what it pleaseth B. What did they next A. Whereas the King had sent Prisoners into Places remote from London three Persons that had been condemned for publishing seditious Doctrine some in Writing some in publick Sermons that Parliament whether with his Majesties consent or no I have forgotten caused them to be released and to Return to London meaning I think to try how the People would be pleased therewith and by consequence how their endeavours to draw the Peoples Affections from the King had already prospered when these three came through London it was a kind of Triumph the People flocking together to behold them and receiving them with such Acclamations and almost Adoration as if they had been let down from Heaven Insomuch that the Parliament was now sufficiently assured of a great and tumultuous Party whensoever they should have occasion to use it on confidence whereof they proceeded to their next Plot which was to deprive the King of such Ministers as by their Courage Wisdom and Authority they thought most able to prevent or oppose their further Designs against the King And first the House of Commons resolv'd to impeach the Earl of Strafford Lord Lieutenant of Ireland of High-Treason B What was that Earl of Strafford before he had that Place And how had he offended the Parliament or given them cause to think he would be their Enemy For I have heard that in former Parliaments he had been as Parliamentary as any other A. His name was Sr. Thomas Wentworth a Gentleman both for birth and estate very considerable in his own Country which was Yorkshire but more considerable for his Judgment in the Publick Affairs not only of that Country but generally of the Kingdom either as Burgess for some Borrough or Knight of the Shire for his Principles of Politicks they were the same that were generally proceeded upon by all Men else that are thought fit to be chosen for the Parliament which are commonly these To take for the Rule of Justice and the Government the Judgments and Acts of former Parliaments which are commonly called Precedents to Endeavour to keep the People from being Subject to Extra-Parliamentary Taxes of money And from being with Parliamentary Taxes too much oppressed to preserve to the People their Liberty of Body from their Arbitrary Power of the King out of Parliament To seek Redress of Grievances B. What Grievances A. The Grievances were commonly such as these the Kings too much Liberality to some favorite The too much power of any Minister of State or Officer the Misdemeanours of Judges Civil or Spiritual but especially all Unparliamentary raising of Mony upon the Subjects And commonly of late till such grievances be redressed they refuse
or at least make great difficulty to furnish the King with Mony necessary for the most urgent occasions of the Commonwealth B. How then can a King discharge his Duty as he ought to do or the Subject know which of his Masters he is to Obey For here are manifestly two Powers which when they chance to differ cannot both be Obeyed A. 'T is true but they have not often differed so much to the danger of the Common-wealth as they have done in this Parliament of 1640. In all the Parliaments of the late King Charles before the year 1640. my Lord of Strafford did appear in opposition to the Kings Demands as much as any man and was for that Cause very much esteemed and cried up by the People as a good Patriot and one that couragiously stood up in defence of their Liberties and for the same cause was so much the more hated when afterwards he endeavoured to maintain the Royal and Just Aâ—thority of his Majesty B. How came he to change his mind so much as it seems he did A. After the Dissolution of that Parliament holden in the year 1627 and 1628 the King finding no Mony to be gotten from Parliaments which he was not to buy with the Blood of such Servants and Ministers as he loved best abstained a long time from calling any more and had abstained longer if the Rebellion of the Scotch had not forced him to it During that Parliament the King made Sir Thomas Wentworth a Baron recommended to him for his great ability which was generally taken notice of by the disservice he had done the King in former Parliaments but which might be usefull also for him in the times that came on and not long after that he made him of the Counsel and again Lieutenant of Ireland which place he discharged with great satisfaction and benefit to his Majesty and continued in that Office till by the Envy and Violence of the Lords and Commons of that unlucky Parliament of 1640. he died in which year he was made General of the Kings Forces against the Scotch that then entred into England and the year before Earl of Strafford The Pacification being made and the Forces on both sides Disbanded and the Parliament at Westminster now Sitting It was not long before the House of Commons accused him to the House of Lords of High Treason B. There was no great probability of his being a Traitor to the King from whose favour he had received his greatness and from whose Protection he 〈◊〉 to expect his safety What was the Treason they laid to his Charge A. Many Articles were drawn up against him but the summ of them was contained in these two First That he had traiterously endeavour'd to subvert the Fundamental Laws and Government of the Realm and instead thereof to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyranical Government against Law Secondly That he had laboured to subvert the Rights of Parliaments and the Antient course of Parliamentary Proceedings B. Was this done by him without the knowledge of the King A. No. B. Why then if it were Treason did not the King himself call him in Question by his Attorney What had the House of Commons to do without his Command to accuse him to the House of Lords They might have complain'd to the King if he had not known it before I understand not this Law A. Nor I. B. Had this been by any former Statutes made Treason A. Not that I ever heard of nor do I understand that any thing can be Treason against the King that the King hearing and knowing does not think Treason But it was a piece of that Parliaments Artifice to put the word Traiterously to any Article exhibited against a man whose life they meant to take away B. Was there no particular Instance of action or words out of which they argued that endeavour of his to subvert the fundamental Laws of Parliament whereof they accused him A. Yes they said he gave the King Counsel to reduce the Parliament to their duty by the Irish Army which not long before my Lord of Strafford himself had caused to be leavied there for the Kings service but it was never proved against him that he advised the King to make use of it against the Parliament B. What are those Laws that are called fundamental for I understand not how one Law can be more fundamental than another except only that Law of Nature that binds us all to obey him whosoever he be whom lawfully and for our own safety wee have promised to obey nor any other fundamental Law to a King but Salus Populi The safety and well being of his People A. This Parliament in the use of these words when they accused any Man never regarded the signification of them but the weight they had to aggravate their accusation to the Ignorant multitudes which think all faults heinous that are exprest in heinous termes If they hate the Reason accused as they did this Man not only for being of the Kings party but also for deserting the Parliaments party as an Apostate B. I pray you tell me also what they meant by Arbitrary Government which they seemed so much to hate Is there any Governour of a People in the World that is forced to Govern them or forced to make this and that Law whether he will or no! I think or if any be that forces him does certainly make Laws and Govern Arbitrarily A. That is true and the true meaning of the Parliament was that not the King but they themselves should have the Arbitrary Government not only of England but of Ireland and as it appeared by the event of Scotland also B. How the King came by the Government of Scotland and Ireland By descent of his Ancesters every body can tell but if the King of England and his heirs should chance which God-forbid to fail I cannot imagine what Title the Parliament of England can acquire thereby to either of those Nations A. Yet they say they have been conquered Antiently by the English Subjects Money B. Like enough and suitable to the rest of their Impudence A. Impudence In Democratical Assemblies does almost all that is done 'T is the Goddess of Rhetorick and carries on proof with it for ought ordinary Man will not from so great boldness of Affirmation conclude there is great boldness of affirmation conclude there is great probability in the King affirmed upon this accusation he was brought to his Tryal at Westminster hall before the House of Lords and found guilty and presently after declared a Traytor by a Bill of attainder that is by Act of Parliament B. It is a strange thing that the Lords should be induced upon so light Grounds to give â— sentence or give their assent to a Bill so prejudicial to themselves and their posterity A. 'T was not well done and yet as it seems not ignorantly for there is a clause in the Bill that it should not be taken hereafter
for an example that is for a prejudice in the like case hereafter B. That is worse then the Bill it self and is a plain conâ—ession that their sentence was unjust for what harm is there in the example of just sentences besides if hereafter the like case should happen the sentence is not at all made weaker by such a provision A. Indeed I believe that the Lords most of them were not willing to condemn him of Treason they were awed to it by the clamor of the Common People that came to Westminster crying out Justice Justice against the Earl of Strafford the which were caused to flock thither by some of the House of Commons that were well assured after the Triumphant Welcom of Prinne Burton and Bastwick to put the People into Tumult upon any occasion they desired they were awed unto it partly also by the House of Commons it self which if it desired to undo a Lord had no more to do but to Vote him a Delinquent B. A Delinquent what 's that A Sinner is 't not Did they mean to undoe all Sinners A By Delinquent they meant only a Man to whom they would do all the hurt they could but the Lords did not yet I think suspect they meant to Cashier their whole House B. It 's a strange thing the whole House of Lords should not perceive the ruine of the King's Power or weakening of themselves for they could not think it likely that the People ever meant to take the Soveraignty from the King to give it to them who were few in number and less in Power than so many Commoners because less beloved by the People A. But it seemes not so strange to me for the Lords â—or their personal abilities as they were no less so also were they no more Skilfull in the Publick affairs than the Knights and Burgesses for there is no reason to think that if one that is to day a Knight of the Shire in the Lower House be to morrow made a Lord and a Member of the Higher House is therefore wiser than he was before they are all of both Houses prudent and able Men as any in the Land in the business of their private Estates which requires nothing but dilligence and Natural Wit to Govern them but for the Government of a Commonwealth neither Wit nor Prudence nor Dilligince is enough without infallible rules and the true Science of Equity and Justice B. If this be true it is impossible any Commonwealth in the World whether Monarchy Aristocracy or Democracy should continue long without Change or Sedition tending to change either of the Government or of the Governours A. 'T is true nor have any the greatest Commonwealths in the World been long from Sedition the Greeks had it first their petty Kings and then by Sedition came to be Petty Commonwealths and then growing to be greater Commonwealths by Sedition again became Monarchies and all for want of rules of Justice for the Common people to take notice of which if the People had known in the beginning of every of these Seditions the Ambitious persons could never have had the hope to disturb their Government after it had been once settled for Ambition can do little without hands and few hands it could have if the Common People were as dilligently instructed in the true Principles of their Duty as they are terrified and amazed by Preachers with fruitless and dangerous Doctrines concerning 〈◊〉 Nature of Man's will and many other Phylosophical points that tend not at all to the Salvation of the Soul in the World to come nor to their ease in this life but only to the Discretion towards the Clergy of that Duty which they ought to perform to the King B. For ought I see all the States of Christendom will be subject to those fits of Rebellion as long as the World lasteth A. Like enough and yet the fault as I have said may be easily mended by mending the Universities B. How long had the Parliament now sitten A. It began Novemb. 3. 1640. My Lord of Strafford was Impeached of Treason before the Lords November 12. sent to the Tower Nov. 22. his Trial began March 22. and ended April 13. After his Trial he was voted guilty of High Treason in the House of Commons and after that in the House of Lords May 6. and on the 12 of May Beheaded B. Great expedition But could not the King for all that have saved him by a Pardon A. The King had heard all that passed at his Trial and had declared he was unsatisfied concerning the Justice of their Sentence and I think notwithstanding the danger of his own Person from the sury of the People and that he was counselled to give way to his Execution not only by such as he most relied on but also by the Earl of Strafford himself He would have pardoned him if that could have preserved him from the Tumult raised and countenanced by the Parliament it self for the terrifying oâ— those they thought might favour him and yet the King himself did not stick to confess afterwards that he had done amiss in that he did not rescue him B. 'T was an Argument of a good disposition in the King but I never read that Augustus Caesar acknowledged that he had a fault in abandoning Cicero to the fury of his Enemy Antonius perhaps because Cicero having been of the contrary Faction to his Father had done Augustus no service at all out of favour to him but only out of enmity to Antonius and of love to the Senate that is indeed out of love to himself that swayed the Senate as it is very likely the Earl of Strafford came over to the King's party for his own ends having been so much against the King in former Parliaments A. We cannot safely judge of Men's Intentions but I have observed often that such as feek preferment by their Stubbornness have missed of their aim and on the other side that those Princes that with preferment are forced to buy the Obedience of their Subjects are already or must be soon after in a very weak condition for in a Market where Honour is to to be bought with Stubborness there will be a great many as able to buy as my Lord Strafford was B. You have read that when Hercules fighting with the Hydra had cut of any one of his many Heads there still arose two other Heads in it's place and yet at last he cut them off all A. The Story is told false for Hercules at first did not cut off those Heads but bought them off and afterwards when he saw that did him no good then he cut them off and gâ—t the Victory B. What did they next B. After the first Impeachment of the Earl of Strafford the House of Commons upon December 18. accused the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury also of High Treason that is of a design to introduce Arbitrary Government c. For which he was February 18. sent to the Tower
but his Trial and Execution were deferred a long time till January 10. 1643. for the entertainment of the Scots that were come into England to aid the Parliament B. Why did the Scots think there was so much danger in the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury he was not a Man of War nor a Man able to bring an Army into the Field but he was perhaps a very great Politician A. That did not appear by any remarkable events of his Councils I never heard but he was a very honest man for his Morals and a very zealous promoter of the Church Government by Bishops and that he desired to have the Service of God performed and the House of God adorned as suitably as was possible to the honour we ought to do to the Divine Majesty But to bring as he did into the State his Former Controversies I mean his squablings in the University about Free Will and his standing upon Punctilio's concerning the Service-Book and its Rubricks was not in my opinion an Argument of his sufficiency in Affairs of State About the same time they passed an Act which the King consented to for a Triennial Parliament wherein was Enacted That after the present Parliament there should be a Parliament call'd by the King within the space of three years and so from three years to three years to meet at Westminster upon a certain day named in the Act. B. But what if the King did not call it finding it perhaps inconvenient or Hurtfull to to the Safety or Peace of his People which God hath put into his Charge for I do not well comprehend how any Soveraign can well keep a People in order when his hands are tiâ—d or when he hath any other Obligation upon him than the benefit of those he Governs And at this time for any thing you told me they acknowledged the King for their Sovereign A. I know not but such was the Act And it was farther Enacted That if the King did it not by his own Command then the Lord Chancellour or the Lord Keeper for the time being should send out the Writs of Summons And if the Chancellour refused then the Sheriffs of the several Counties of themselves at the next County Courts before the day set down for the Parliaments meeting should proceed to the Election of the Members for the said Parliament B. But what if the Sheriffs refused A. I think they were to be sworn to it but for that and other particulars I refer you to the Act. B. To whom should they be sworn when there is no Parliament A. No doubt but to the King whether there be a Parliament sitting or no. B. Then the K. may Release them of their Oath A. Besides They obtained of the King the putting down the Star Chamber and the High Commission Courts B. Besides If the King upon the refusal should fall upon them in Anger Who shall the Parliament not sitting Protect either the Chancellor or the Sheriffs in their Disobedience A. I pray you do not ask me any Reason of such things I understand no better than you I tell you only an Act passed to that purpose and was Sâ—gned by the King in the middle of February a little before the Arch Bishop was sent to the Tower Besides this Bill the two Houses of Parliament agreed upon another wherein it was Enacted That the present Parliament would continue till both the Houses did consent to the Dissolution of it which Bill also the King Signed the same day he Signed the Warrant for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford B. What a great Progress made the Parliament towards the ends of the most seditious Members of both Houses in so little time They sat down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the Adhearance which was due to him from his People they drove his faithfullest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford Imprisoned the Arch Bishop of Canterbury obtained a Triennial Parliament after their Own dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last a mounted to a total extinction of the Kings right in case that such a grant were vaild which I think it is not unless the soveraignty it self be in plain termes renounced which it was not but what money by way of subsidue or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for wel meaning with the common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagine what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A Yes they desired the whole and absolute soveraignty and to change the Monarchical government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the soveraignty for the present and shortly after to lay the house of Lords aside for this was the design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by Divine right the onely Lawful governers of the Church endeavoured to bring the same form of Government into the Civil state and as the spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so their Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than formerly they had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out gon by their own Disciples though not in malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a journey into Scotland to satisfy his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good wills that in case the Parliament here should levy Armes against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceived for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giveing away to the Aâ—olction of Episcopacy Yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments Quarrel but this was a Year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together pretend to A. It is a question of things so long past that they are now forgotten nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things only done sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what right they pretended B.
a Guard for his Person in Yorkshire and the Parliament thereupon having Voted That the King intended to make War upon his Parliament gave Order for the Mustering and Exercising the People in Arms and published Propositions to invite and encourage them to bring in either ready Money or Plate or to promise under their hands to maintain certain numbers of Horse Horsemen and Arms for the defence of the King and Parliament meaning by King as they had formerly declar'd not his Person but his Laws promising to repay their Money with Interest of 8 l. in the hundred and the value of their Plate with 12 d. the ounce for the fashion On the other side the King came to Nottingham and there did set up his Standard Royal and sent out Commissioners of Array to call those to him which by the ancient Laws of England were bound to serve him in the Wars Upon this occasion there passed divers Declarations between the King and Parliament concerning the Legality of this Array which are too long to tell you at this time B. Nor do I desire to hear any Mooting about this Question for I think that general Law of Salus Populi and the Right of defending himself against those that had taken from him the Sovereign Power are sufficient to make Legal whatsoever he should do in order to the recovery of his Kingdom or the punishing of the Rebels A. In the mean time the Parliament raised an Army and made the Earl of Essex General thereof by which Act they declar'd what they meant formerly when they Petition'd the King for a Guard to be commanded by the said Earl of Essex And now the King sends out his Proclamations forbidding Obedience to the Orders of the Parliament concerning the Militia and the Parliament send out Orders against the Executions of the Commissions of Array hitherto though it were a War before yet there was no Blood shed they shot at one another nothing but Paper B. I understand now how the Parliament destroy'd the Peace of the Kingdom and how easily by the help of seditious Presbyterian Ministers and of ambitious ignorant Orators they reduced the Government into Anarchy but I believe it will be a harder task for them to bring in Peace again and settle the Government either in themselves or in any other Governor or form of Government for granting that they obtain'd the Victory in this War they must be beholding for it to the Valor good Conduct or Felicity of those to whom they give the Command of their Armies especially to the General whose good success will without doubt bring with it the love and admiration of the Soldiers so that it will be in his power either to take the Government upon himself or to place it where himself thinks good In which Case if he take it not to himself he will be thought a Fool and if he do he shall be sure to have the Envy of his subordinate Commanders who will look for a share either in the present Government or in the Succession to it for they will say has he obtain'd this Power by his own without our Danger Valor and Council And must we be his Slaves whom we have thus rais'd Or is not there as much Justice on our side against him as was on his side against the King A. They will and did insomuch that the reason why Cromwel after he had gotten into his own hands the absolute Power of England Scotland and Ireland by the Name of Protector did never dare to take upon him the Title of King nor was ever able to settle it upon his Children his Officers would not suffer it as pretending after his death to succeed him nor would the Army consent to it because he had ever declared to them against the Government of a Single Person B. But to return to the King What Means had he to pay What Provision had he to Arm nay Means to Levy an Army able to resist the Army of the Parliament maintained by the great Purse of the City of London and Contributions of almost all the Towns Corporate in England and furnished with Arms as fully as they could require A. 'T is true the King had great disadvantages and yet by little and little he got a considerable Army with which he so prospered as to grow stronger every day and the Parliament weaker till they had gotten the Scotch with an Army of 21000 Men to come into England to their assistance but to enter into the particular Narrative of what was done in the War I have not now time B. Well then we will talk of that at next meeting B. WE left at the Preparations on both sides for War which when I considered by my self I was mightily puzled to find out what possibility there was for the King to equal the Parliament in such a course and what hopes He had of Money Men Arms Fortified Places Shipping Council and Military Offices sufficient for such an Enterprize against the Parliament that had Men and Money as much at Command as the City of London and other Corporation Towns were able to furnish which was more than they needed And for the Men they should set forth for Soldiers they were almost all of them spightfully bent against the King and his whole Party whom they took to be either Papists or Flatterers of the King or that had design'd to raise their Fortunes by the Plunder of the City and other Corporation Towns and though I believe not that they were more valiant than other Men nor that they had so much experience in the War as to be accounted good Soldiers yet they had that in them which in time of Battel is more conducing to Victory than Valor and Experience both together and that was Spight And for Arms they had in their hands the chief Magazines the Tower of London and Kingston upon Hull besides most of Powder and Shot that lay in several Towns for the use of the Trained Bonds Fortified places there were not many then in England and most of them in the hands of the Parliament The King's Fleet was wholly in their Command under the Earl of Warwick Councillors they needed no more than such as were of their own Body so that the King was every way inferior to them except it were perhaps in Officers A. I cannot compare their chief Officers for the Parliament the Earl of Essex after the Parliament had Voted the War was made General of all their Forces both in England and Ireland from whom all other Commanders were to receive their Commissions B. What moved them to make the Earl of Essex General And for what cause was the Earl of Essex so displeased with the King as to accept that Office A. I do not certainly know what to answer to either of those Questions but the Earl of Essex had been in the Wars abroad and wanted neither Experience Judgment nor Courage to perform such an undertaking and besides that you
have heard I believe how great a Darling of the people his Father had been before him and what Honour he had gotten by the success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military actions To which I may add That this Earl himself was not held by the People to be so great a Favourite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King and by this you may perhaps conjecture the cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so he came to Court as other Noblemen did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriage had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary savour there to balance that calamity for particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any wayes addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Fanatick Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supreme Power must alwayes be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the Kings Army A. None yet but Himself nor indeed had He yet any Army but there coming to him at that time two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice He put the Command of His Horse into the hands of Prince Rupert a Man then whom no man living has a better courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commission and though but a young Man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Fathers Wars in Germany B. But how would the King find money to pay such an Army as was necessary for Him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much money at that time in their own hands but were fain to relie upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that payed them being so few for other Monies that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrow'd upon Jewels in the Low-Countries whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at which time they had newly Voted That the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horsemen and to buy Arms for the preservation of the Publick Peace and for the defence of the King and both Houses of Parliament for the Re-payment of which Money and Plate they were to have the Publick Faith B. What Publick Faith is there when there is no Publick What is it that can be call'd Publick in a Civil War without the King A. The Truth is the Security was nothing worth but serv'd well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of change than either of their peace or profit having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others for in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not Contributed then or had Contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliâ—ment promised and declar'd in the Propositions themselves for they declar'd in the first Proposition That no mans Affection should be measured by the prâ—portion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642 by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the Profits of the King's Lands and Woods and whatsoever was remaining unpaid of any Subsidy formerly granted Him and the Tunnage and Poundage usually received by the King besides the profit of the Sequestration of great persons whom they pleas'd to vote Delinquents and the profits of the Bishops Lands which they took to themselves a year or a little more after B. Seeing then the Parliament had such advantage of the King in Money Arms and multitude of Men and had in their hands the King's Fleet I cannot imagine what hope the King could have either of Victory unless He resign'd into their hands the Sovereignty or subsisting for I cannot well believe He had any advantage of them either in Councillors Conducts or in the Resolution of his Soldiers A. On the contrary I think He had also some disadvantage in that for though He had as good Officers at least as any then serv'd the Parliament yet I doubt He had not so useful Council as was necessary And for His Soldiers though they were Men as stout as theirs yet because their Valor was not sharpned so with Malice as theirs was of the other side they sought not so keenly as their Enemies did amongst whom there was a great many London Apprentices who for want of experience in the War would have been fearful enough of death and wounds approaching visibly in glittering Swords but for want of judgment scarce thought of such a death as comes invisibly in a Bullet and therefore were very hardly to be driven out of the Field B. But what fault do you find in the King's Councils Lords and other Persons of Quality and Experience A. Only that fault which was generally in the whole Nation which was That they thought the Government of England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy and that if the King should clearly subdue this Parliament that His power would be what He pleased and theirs as little as He pleased which they counted Tyranny This opinion though it did not lesâ—en their endeavors to gain the Victory for the King in a Battel when the Battel could not be avoided yet it weakned their endeavors to procure him an absolute
Victory in the War And for this cause notwithstanding that they saw that the Parliament was firmly resolv'd to take all Kingly power whatsoever out of His Hands yet their Council to the King was upon all occasions to offer Propositions to them of Treaty and Accommodation and to make and publish Declarations which any Man might easily have foreseen would be fruitless and not only so but also of great disadvantage to those Actions by which the King was to recover His Crown and preserve His Life for it took off the courage of the best and forwardest of his Soldiers that lookt for great benefit out of the Estates of the Rebels in case they could subdue them but none at all if the business should be ended by a Treaty B. And they had reason for a Civil War never ends by Treaty without the Sacrifice of those who were on both sides the sharpest You know well enough how things past the Reconciliation of Augustus and Antonius in Rome But I thought that after they once began to Levy Soldiers one against another that they would not any more have return'd of either side to Declarations or other Paper War which if it could have done any good would have done it long before this A. But seeing the Parliament continued writing and set forth their Declarations to the People against the Lawfulness of the King's Commission of Array and sent Petitions to the King as fierce and rebellions as ever they had done before demanding of him That he would diâ—band his Soldiers and come up to the Parliament and leave those whom the Parliament called Delinquents which were none but the King 's best Subjects to their Mercy and pass such Bills as they should advise Him Would you not have the King set forth Declarations and Proclamations against the Illegality of their Ordinances by which they Levied Soldiers against him and answer those insolent Petitions of theirs B. No it had done him no good before and therefore was not likely to do him any afterwards for the Common People whose hands were to decide the Controversie understood not the Reasons of either Party and for those that by Ambition were once set upon the Enterprize of changing the Government they cared not much what was Reason and Justice in the Cause but what Strength they might procure by reducing the multitude with Remonstrances from the Parliament-House or by Sermons in the Churches and to their Petitions I would not have had any answer at all more than this That if they would disband their Army and put themselves upon his Mercy they should find Him more Gracious than they expected A. That had been a gallant answer indeed if it had proceeded from Him after some extraordinary great Victory in Battel or some extraordinary assurance of a Victory at last in the whole War B. Why what could have hapned to Him worse than at length He suffered notwithstanding His gentle answer and all His reasonable Declarations A. Nothing but who knew that B. Any Man might see that He was never like to be restor'd to His Right without Victory and such His Statutes being known to the People would have brought to His assistance many more hands than all the arguments of Law or force of Eloquence couched in Declarations and other Writings could have done by far and I wonder what kind of Men they were that hindered the King from taking this Resolution A. You may know by the Declarations themselves which are very long and full of Quotations of Records and of Cases formerly Reported that the Penners of them were either Lawyers by Profession or such Gentlemen as had the ambition to be thought so Besides I told you before that those which were then likeliest to have their counsel asked in this business were averse to absolute Monarchy as also to absolute Democracy or Aristocracy all which Governments they esteemed Tyranny and were in love with Monarchy which they us'd to praise by the name of mixt Monarchy though it were indeed nothing else but pure Anarchy and those Men whose Pens the King most us'd in these Controversies of Law and Politick were such if I have not been misinformed as having been Members of this Parliament had declaim'd against Ship-money and other Extra-Parliamentary Taxes as much as any but when they saw the Parliament grow higher in their demands than they thought they would have done went over to the King's Party B. Who were those A. It is not necessary to name any Man seeing I have undertaken only a short Narration of the Follies and other Faults of Men during this trouble but not by naming of persons to give you or any man else occasion to esteem them the less now that the Faults on all sides have been forgiven B. When the Business was brought to this heighth by levying of Soldiers and seizing on the Navy Arms and other Provisions on both sides that no Man was so blind as not to see they were in an estate of War one against another why did not the King by Proclamation or Message according to His undoubted Right Dissolve the Parliament and thereby diminish in some part the Authority of their Levies and of other their unjust Ordinances A. You have forgotten that I told you that the King Himself by a Bill that He passed at the same time when He passed the Bill for the Execution for the Earl of Strafford had given them Authority to hold the Parliament till they should by consent of both Houses dissolve themselves If therefore He had by any Proclamation or Message to the Houses dissolv'd them they would to their former Deâ—amations of His Majesties actions have added this That He was a Breaker of His Word and not only in Contempt of Him have continued their Session but also have made advantage of it to the increase and strengthning of their own Party B. Would not the King 's raising of an Army against them be interpreted as a purpose to dissolve them by force And was it not as great a breach of promise to scatter them by force as to dissolve them by Proclamation Besides I cannot conceive that the passing of that Act was otherwise intended than conditionally so long as they should not ordain any thing contrary to the Sovereign Right of the King which condition they had already by many of their Ordinances broken and I think that even by the Law of Equity which is the unalterable Law of Nature a man that has the Sovereign Power cannot if he would give away the right of any thing which is necessary for him to retain for the good Government of his Subjects unless he do it in express words saying That he will have the Sovereign Power no longer for the giving away that which by consequence only draws the Sovereignty along with it is not I think a giving away of the Sovereignty but an error such as work nothing but an invalidity in the Grant it self And such was the King's passing
Letters from His Commissioners in Scotland and Duke Hamilton that the Scotch never intended any Invasion The Duke being then at Oxford the King assur'd that the Scotch were now entered sent him Prisoner to Pendennis Castle in Cornwal In the beginning of this year 1644. the Earl of Newcastle being as I told you besieged by the joint Forces of the Scots the Earl of Manchester and Sir Thomas Fairfax the King sent Prince Rupert to relieve the Town and as soon as he could to give the Enemy Battel Prince Rupert passing through Lancashire and by the way having storm'd the seditious Town of Bolton and taken in Stockford and Leverpool came to York July 1. and relieved it the Enemy being risen thence to a place called Marston-moor about four miles off and there was fought that unfortunate Battel that lost the King in a manner all the North Prince Rupert return'd by the way he came and the Earl of Newcastle to York and thence with some of His Officers over the Sea to Hamburgh The Honour of this Victory was attributed chiefly to Oliver Cromwel the Earl of Manchester's Lieutenant General the Parliamentarians return'd from the Field to the Siege of York which not long after upon honourable Articles was surrendred not that they were favoured but because the Parliament employed not much time nor many men in the Siege B This was a great and sudden abatement of the King's Prosperity A. It was so but amends was made Him for it within 5 or 6 weeks after for Sir William Waller after the loss of his Army at Roundway-down had another raised for him by the City of London who for the payment thereof impos'd a weekly Tax of the value of one Meals meat upon every Citizen This Army with that of the Earl of Essex intended to besiege Oxford which the King understanding sent the Queen into the West and marched Himself towards Worcester This made them to divide again and the Earl to go into the West and Waller to pursue the King By this means it so fell out that both their Armies were defeated for the King turn'd upon Waller routed him at Copredy-Bridge took his Train of Artillery and many Officers and then presently followed the Earl of Essex into Cornwal where he had him at such advantage that the Earl himself was fain to escape in a small Boat to Plymouth his Horse broke through the King's Quarters by night but the Infantry were all forc'd to lay down their Arms and upon Conditions never more to bear Arms against the King were permitted to depart In October following was fought a second and sharp Battel at Newbury for this Infantry making no Conscience of the Conditions made with the King being now come towards London as far as Basing stoke had Arms put again into their hands to whom some of the Train'd Bands being added the Earl of Essex had suddenly so great an Army that he attempted the King again at Newbury and certainly had the better of the day but the night parting them had not a complete Victory And it was observ'd here That no part of the Earls Army fought so keenly as they who had laid down their Arms in Cornwal These were the most important Fights in the year 1644. and the King was yet as both Himself and others thought in as good a condition as the Parliament which despair'd of Victory by the Commanders then us'd therefore they voted a new modelling of the Army suspecting the Earl of Essex though I think wrongfully to be too much a Royalist for not having done so much as they look'd for in this second Battel at Newbury The Earls of Essex and Manchester perceiving what they went about voluntarily laid down their Commissions and the House of Commons made an Ordinance That no Member of either House should enjoy any Office or Command Military or Civil With which oblique Blow they shook off those that had hitherto serv'd them too well and yet out of this Ordinance they excepted Oliver Cromwel in whose Conduct and Valor they had very great confidence which they would not have done if they had known him as well then as they did afterwards and made him Lieutenant General In the Commission to the Earl of Essex there was a Clause for Preservation of His Majesties Person which in this new Commission was left out though the Parliament as well as the General were as yet Presbyterians B. It seems the Presbyterians also in order to their Ends would fain have had the King murdered A. For my part I doubt it not for a Rightful King living an Usurping Power can never be sufficiently secur'd In this same year the Parliament put to death Sir John Hotham and his Son for tampering with the Earl of Newcastle about the Rendition of Hull And Sir Alexander Carâ—w for endeavouring to deliver up Plymouth where he was Governor for the Parliament And the Archbishop of Canterbury for nothing but to please the Scots For the general Article of going about to subvert the Fundamental Laws of the Land was no Accusation but only foul words They then also voted down the Book of Common-Prayer and ordered the Use of a Directory which had been newly compos'd by an Assembly of Presbyterian Ministers They were also then with much ado prevail'd with for a Treaty with the King at Uxbridge where they remitted nothing of their former demands The King had also at this time a Parliament at Oxford consisting of such discontented Members as had left the Houses at Westminster but few of them had changed their old Principles and therefore that Parliament was not much worth Nay rather because they endeavour'd nothing but Messages and Treaties that is to say defeating of Soldiers hope of benefit by the War they were thought by most Men to do the King more hurt than good The year 1645. was to the King very unfortunate for by the loss of one great Battel He lost all He had formerly gotten and at length His life The new model'd Army after consultation whether they should lay Siege to Oxford or march Westward to the relief of Taunton then besieged by the Lord Goring and defended by Blake famous afterward for his Actions at Sea resolv'd for Taunton leaving Cromwel to attend the motions of the King though not strong enough to hinder Him The King upon this advantage drew his Forces and Artillery out of Oxford This made the Parliament to call back their General Fairfax and order him to besiege Oxford The King in the mean time relieved Chester which was besieged by Sir William Brereton and coming back took Leicester by force a place of great importance and well provided of Artillery and Provision Upon this success it was generally thought that the King's Party was the stronger The King Himself thought so and the Parliament in a manner confest the same by commanding Fairfax to rise from the Siege and endeavor to give the King Battel for the Successors of the King
and the treacherous divisions growing now among themselves had driven them to relie upon the fortune of one day in which at Naseby the King's Army was utterly overthrown and no hope left Him to raise another therefore after the Battel he went up and down doing the Parliament here and there some shrewd turns but never much increasing His number Fairfax in the mean time first recovered Leicester and then marching into the West subdued it all except only a few places forcing with much ado my Lord Hopton upon honorable Conditions to disband his Army and with the Prince of Wales to pass over to Scilly whence not long after they went to Paris In April 1646. General Fairfax began to march back to Oxford in the mean time Rainsburrough who besieged Woodstock had it surrender'd The King therefore who was now also return'd to Oxford from whence Woodstock is but six miles not doubting but that He should there by Fairfax be besieg'd and having no Army to relieve Him resolv'd to get away disguised to the Scotch Army about Newark and thither he came the 4th of May and the Scotch Army being upon remove homewards carried Him with them to Newcastle whither He came May the 13th B. Why did the King trust Himself with the Scots They were the first that Rebell'd They were Presbyterians i. e. cruel Besides they were indigent and consequently might be suspected would sell Him to His Enemies for money And lastly They were too weak to defend Him or keep Him in their Countrey A. What could He have done better for He had in the Winter before sent to the Parliament to get a Pass for the Duke of Richmond and others to bring them Propositions of Peace it was denied He sent again it was denied again Then He desir'd He might come to them in Person this also was denied He sent again and again to the same purpose but instead of granting it they made an Ordinance That the Commanders of the Militia of London in the case the King should attempt to come within the Line of Communication should raise what Force they thought fit to suppress Tumults to apprehend such as came with Him and to secure i. e. to imprison His Person from danger If the King had adventur'd to come and had been imprison'd what would the Parliament have done with Him They had dethron'd Him by their Votes and therefore could have no security while He liv'd though in Prison it may be they would not have put Him to death by a High Court of Justice publickly but secretly some other way B. He should have attempted to get beyond Sea A. That had been from Oxford very difficult Besides it was generally believ'd that the Scotch Army had promis'd Him that not only His Majesty but also His Friends that should come with Him should be in their Army safe not only for their Persons but also for their Honours and Consciences 'T is a pretty Trick when the Army and the particular Soldiers of that Army are different things to make the Soldiers promise what the Army means not to perform July 11. the Parliament sent their Propositions to the King at Newcastle which Propositions they pretended to be the onely way to a setled and well-grounded Peace They were brought by the Earl of Pembroke the Earl of Suffolk Sir Walter Earl Sir John Hyppesley Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Robinson whom the King asked If they had power to Treat And when they said No why they might not as well have been sent by a Trumpeter The Propositions were the same dethroning ones which they used to send and therefore the King would not assent to them Nor did the Scots swallow them at first but made some Exceptions against them only it seems to make the Parliament perceive they meant not to put the King into their hands gratis and so at last the bargain was made between them and upon payment of 200000 l. the King was put into the hands of the Commissioners which the English Parliament sent down to receive Him B. What a vile Complexion hath this Action compounded of feigned Religion and very Covetousness Cowardize Perjury and Treachery A. Now the War that seemed so just by many unseemly things is ended you will see almost nothing in these Rebels but Baseness and Falseness besides their Folly By this time the Parliament had taken in all the rest â—f the King's Garisons whereof the last was Pendennis Castle whither Duke Hamilton had been sent Prisoner by the King B. What was done during this time in Ireland and Scotland A. In Ireland there had been a Peace made by Order from His Majesty for a time which by divisions by the Irish was ill kept The Popish Party the Pope's Nuncio being then there took this to be the time for delivering themselves from their subjection to the English besides the time of the Peace was now expir'd B. How were they subject to the English more than the English to the Irish They were subject to the King of England but so also were the English to the King of Ireland A. The distinction is somewhat too subtile for common understanding In Scotland the Marquis of Montross for the King with a very few Men had miraculously with Victories over-run all Scotland where many of his Forces out of too much security were permitted to be absent for a while of which the Enemy having intelligence suddenly came upon them and forced them to flie back into the High-lands to recruit where he began to recover strength when the King commanded him being then in the hands of the Scots at Newcastle to disband and he departed from Scotland by Sea In the end of the same year 1646. the Parliament caused the King's great Seal to be broken Also the King was brought to Holmeby and there kept by the Parliaments Commissioners and here was an end of that War as to England and Scotland but not to Ireland About this time also dyed the Earl of Essex whom the Parliament had discarded B. Now that there was Peace in England and the King in Prison in whom was the Sovereign Power A. The Right was certainly in the King but the exercise was yet in no body but contended for as in a Game at Cards without fighting all the years 1647. and 1648. between the Parliament and Oliver Cromwel Lieutenant General to Sir Thomas Fairfax You must know that when King Henry VIII abolished the Pope's Authority here and took upon him to be the Head of the Church the Bishops as they could not resist him so neither were they discontented with it For whereas the Pope before allowed not the Bishops to claim Jurisdiction in their Diocesses Jure Divino that is of Right immediately from God but by the Gift and Authority of the Pope now that the Pope was outed they made no doubt but the Divine Right was in themselves After this the City of Geneva and divers other places beyond Sea having revolted from the
Army A. First the Parliament sent to the General to have the King re-deliver'd to their Commissioners Instead of an answer to this the Army sent Articles to the Parliament and with them a Charge against Eleven of their Members all of them active Presbyterians of which Articles these are some I. That the House may be purged of those who by the Self-denying Ordinance ought not to be there II. That such as abused and endeavoured the Kingdom might be disabled to do the like hereafter III. That a day might be appointed to determine this Parliament IV. That they would make an Accompt to the Kingdom of the vast Sums of Money they had received V. That the Eleven Members might presently be suspended sitting in the House These were the Articles that put them to their Trumps and they answered none of them but that of the Suspension of the Eleven Members which they said they could not do by Law till the particulars of the Charge were produced But this was soon answer'd with their own Proceedings against the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Earl of Strafford The Parliament being thus somewhat aw'd and the King made somewhat confident he undertakes the City requiring the Parliament to put the Militia into other hands B. What other hands I do not well understand you A. I told you that the Militia of London was on the 4th of May put into the hands of the Lord Mayor and other Citizens and soon after put into the hands of other Men more favourable unto the Army And now I am to tell you that on July 26. the violence of certain Apprentices and disbanded Soldiers forced the Parliament to resettle it as it was in the Citizens and hereupon the two Speakers and divers of the Members ran away to the Army where they were invited and contented to sit and vote in the Council of War in the nature of a Parliament and out of these Citizens hands they would have the Militia taken away and put again into those hands out of which it was taken the 26th of July B. What said the City to this A. The Londoners mann'd their works viz. the Line of Communication rais'd an Army of valiant Men within the Line chose good Officers all being desirous to go out and fight whensoever the City should give them Order and in that posture stood expecting the Enemy The Soldiers in the mean time enter into an Engagement to live and dye with Sir Thomas Fairfax the Parliament and the Army B. That 's very fine they imitate that which the Parliament did when they first took up Arms against the King stiling themselves The King and Parliament maintaining That the King was alwayes vertually in His Parliament So the Army now making War against the Parliament called themselves the Parliament and the Army but they might with more reason say That the Parliament since it was in Cromwel's Pocket was virtually in the Army A. Withall they send out a Declaration of the grounds of their March towards London wherein they take upon them to be Judges of the Parliament and of who are fit to be trusted with the business of the Kingdom giving them the name not of the Parliament but of the Gentlemen at Westminster for since the violence they were under July 26. the Army denied them to be a lawful Parliament At the same time they sent a Letter to the Mayor and Aldermen of London reproaching them with those late Tumults telling them They were Enemies to the Peace Treacherous to the Parliament Vnable to defend either the Parliament or themselves and demanded to have the City delivered into their hands to which purpose they said they were now coming to them The General also sent out his Warrants to the Counties adjacent summoning their Train'd Soldiers to join with them B. Were the Train'd Soldiers part of the Generals Army A. No nor at all in Pay nor could be without an Order of Parliament But what might not an Army do that had master'd all the Laws of the Land The Army being come to Hounsloe-heath distant from London but 10 Miles the Court of Aldermen was called to consider what to do the Captains and Soldiers of the City were willing and well-provided to go forth and give them Battel but a Treacherous Officer that had charge of a work on Southwark side had let in within the Line a small Party of the Enemies who marched as far as to the Gate of London-Bridge and then the Court of Aldermen their hearts failing them submitted on these Conditions To relinquish their Militia To desert the Eleven Members To deliver up the Forts and Line of Communication together with the Tower of London and all Magazines and Arms therein to the Army To disband their Forces and turn out all the Reformadoes i. e. all Essex's old Soldiers To draw off their Guards from the Parliament All which was done and the Army marched triumphantly through the principal Streets of the Câ—ty B. 'T is strange that the Mayor and Aldermen having such an Army should so quickly yield Might they not have resisted the Party of the Enemies at the Bridge with a Party of their own and the rest of the Enemies with the rest of their own A. I cannot judge of that but to me it would have been strange if they had done otherwise for I consider the most part of rich Subjects that have made themselves so by Craft and Trade as men that never look upon any thing but their present profit and who to every thing not lying in that way are in a manner blind being amaz'd at the very thought of Plundering If they had understood what vertue there is to preserve their Wealth in obedience to their lawful Soveraign they would never have sided with the Parliament and so we had had no need of arming The Mayor and Aldermen therefore assur'd by this submission to save their Goods and not sure of the same by resisting seem to me to have taken the wisest course Nor was the Parliament less tame than the City for presently August 6. the General brought the Fugitive Speakers and Members to the House with a strong Guard of Souldiers and re-placed the Speakers in their Chairs and for this they gave the General thanks not only there in the House but appointed also a day for a holy Thanksgiving and not long after made him Generalissimâ— of all the Forces of England and Constable of the Tower But in effect all this was the advancement of Cromwel for he was the Usufructuary though the Property were in Sir Tho. Fairfax for the Independents immediately cast down the whole Line of Communication divide the Militia of London Westminster and Southwark which were before united displaced such Governours of Towns and Forts as were not for their turn though placed thereby Ordinance of Parliament instead of whom they put in men of their own Party They also made the Parliament to declare null all that had passed in the
The HISTORY OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND From the Year 1640 to 1660. By T. H. Religio p perit Scelerosa atque impia Facta Tantum Religio potuit Suadere Malorum Lucret. de Natur. Rer. Lib. I. Placavi Sanguine Deos. Hor. Serm. Lib. II. Satyr 3. Quicquid delirant Reges Plectuntur Achivi Hor. Cui potior Patria fuit interdicta voluptas Hor. Lib. I. Epist 6. Sociusque Fraternae Necis Sua Urbs haec periret dextera Suis ipsa Roma viribus Ruit Hor. Epod. 16. Printed in the Year 1679. THE HISTORY OF THE Civil VVars OF ENGLAND A. If in time as in place there were Degrees of high and low I verily believe that the highest of time whould be that which passeth betwixt 1640 and 1660. For he that thence as from the Divils Mountain should have looked upon the World and observed the Actions of Men especially in England might have had a Prospect of all kinds of Injustice and of all kinds of Folly that the world could afford and how they were produced by then Hypocrisy and self-conceit whereof the one is double Iniquity and the other double Folly B. I should be glad to behold the Prospect you that have lived in that time and in that part of your Age wherein Men used to see best into good and evil I pray you set me that could not see so well upon the same Mountain by the relation of the actions you then saw of their Causes Pretentions Justice Order Artifice and Events A. In the year 1640. The Government of England was Monarchical and the King that reigned Charles the I. of that Name holding the Soveraignty by Right of a Discent continued above 600 years and from a much longer Discent King of Scotland and from the Time of his Ancestors Henry the 2. King of Ireland a Man that wanted no Vertue either of Body or Mind nor endeavour'd any thing more than to discharge his Duty towards his God in the well-governing of his Subjects B. How could he than miscarry having in every County so many Train'd-bands as would put together have made an Army of 60000 Men and divers Magazenes of Ammunition in Places fortified A. If those Souldiers had been as they and all others of his Subjects ought to have been at his Majesties Command the Peace and Hapiness of the Three Kingdoms had continued as it was left by K. James but the People were corrupted generally and Disobedient Persons esteemed the best Patriots B But sure there were Men enough besides those that were ill-affected to have made an Army sufficient for to have kept the People from uniting into a Body able to oppose him A. Truely if the King had had Money I think he might have had Souldiers enough in England for there were very few of the common People that cared much for either of the Causes but would have taken any side for pay and plunder But the Kings treasure was very low and his Enemies that pretended the Peoples ease from Taxes and other specious things had the Command of the Purses of the City of London and of most Cities and Corporate Towns in England and of many particular Persons besides B. But how comes the People to be so corrupted and what kind of People were they that did so seduce them A. The Seducers were of divers sorts One sort were Ministers Ministers as they called themselves of Christ and sometimes in their Sermons to the People Gods Embassadors pretending to have a Right from God to govern every one his Parish and their Assembly the whole Nation Secondly There were a very great number though not comparable to the other which notwithstanding that the Popes Power in England both Temporal and Ecclesiastical had been by Act of Parliament abolished did still retain a belief that we ought to be governed by the Pope whom they pretended to be the Vicar of Christ and in the Right of Christ to be the Governour of all Christian People and these were known by the Name of PAPISTS as the Ministers I mentioned before were commonly called PRESBYTERIANS Thirdly There were not a few who in the beginning of the Troubles were not discovered but shortly after declared themselves for a Liberty in Religion and those of different opinions one from another Some of them because they would have all Congregations free and independant upon one another were called INDEPENDANTS others that held Baptism to Infants and such as understood not into what they are Baptized to be ineffectual were called therefore ANABAPTISTS Others that held that Christs Kingdom was at this time to begin upon the Earth were called FIFTH-MOMARCHY-MEN besides divers other Sects as QUAKERS ADAMITES c. whose names and peculiar Doctrines I do not very well remember and these were the Enemies which arose against his Majesty from the private Interpretation of the Scripture exposed to every Mans scanning in his Mother Tongue Fourthly There were an exceeding great number of Men of the better sort that had been so educated as that in their youth having read the Books written by famous men of the Antient Grecian and Roman Commonwealths concerning their Policy and great Actions in which Book the Popular Government was extold by that glorious Name of Liberty and Monarchy disgraced by the Name of Tyranny they became thereby in love with their form of Government And out of these men were chosen the greatest part of the HOUSE OF COMMONS or if they were not the greatest part yet by advantage of their Eloquence were always able to sway the rest Fifthly The City of London and other great Towns of Trade having in admiration the prosperity of the low Countries after they had revolted from their Monarch the King of Spain were inclined to think that the like change of Government here would to them produce the like prosperity Sixthly There were a very great Number that had either wasted their fortunes or thought them too mean for the good part they thought were iâ— themselves and more there were that had able bodies and saw no means how honestly to get their Bread These longed for a War and hoped to maintain themselves hereafter by the lucky chusing of a Party to side with and consequently did for the most part serve under them that had greatest plenty of Money Lastly The People in general were so ignorant of their Duties as that not one perhaps of 1000 knew what Right any man had to command him or what necessity there was of King or Common-wealth for which he was to part with his money against his will but thought himself to be so much Master of whatsoever he possest that it could not be taken from him upon any pretence of Common Safety without his own consent King they thought was but a Title of the highest honour which Gentlemen Knight Baron Earl Luke were but steps to ascend to with the help of Riches and had no Rule of Equity but Precedents and Custom and he was thought
thus The Laws of the Aethiopians seem very different from those of other Nations and especially about the Election of their Kings for the Priests propound some of the Chief Men among them named in a Catalogue and when the God which according to a certain Custom is carried about to Feastings does accept of him the Multitude Elect for their King and presently adore and honour him as a God put into the Government by Divine Providence The King being chosen he has the manner of his Life limited to him by the Laws and does all other things according to the Custom of the Country neither rewarding nor punishing any man otherwise than from the begining is establisht amongst them by Law nor use they to put any man to death though he be condemn'd to it but to send some Officer to him with a Token of Death who seeing the Token goes presently to his own house and kills himself presently after But the strangest thing of all is that which they do concerning the Death of their Kings for the Priests that live in Meroe and spend their time about the worship and honour of the gods and are in greatest Authority when they have a mind to it send a Messenger to the King to bid him die for that the gods have given such order and that the Commandments of the Immortals are not by any means to be neglected by those that are by nature Mortal using also other speeches to him with men of simple Judgment that have not reason enough to dispute against those unnecessary Commands as being educated under an old and indelible Custom are content to admit of therefore in former times the Kings did obey the Priests not as mastered by force and Arms but as having their reason mastered by superstition But in the time of Ptolomy the second Ergamenes King of the Aethiopians having had his Breeding in Philosophy after the manner of the Greeks being the first that durst dispute their power took heart as befitted a King came with souldiers to a place called Abaton where was then the golden Temple of the Aethiopians killed all the Priests abolished the Custom and rectified the Kingdom according to his will B. Though they that were kill'd were most damnable Impostors yet the Act was cruel A. It was so But were not the Priests cruel to cause their Kings whom a little before they adored as Gods to make away themselves The King kill'd them for the safety of his person they him out of Ambition or love of Change The King's Act may be coloured with the good of his People the Priests had no pretence against their Kings who were certainly very godly or else would never have obeyed the Command of the Priests by a Messenger unarmed to kill themselves Our late King the best King perhaps that ever was you know was murdered having been first persecuted by War at the Incitement of Presbyterian Ministers who are therefore guilty of the Death of all that fell in that War which were I believe in England Scotland and Ireland near one hundred thousand persons Had it not been much better that those seditious Ministers which were not perhaps a thousand had been all kill'd before that they had Preached It had been I confess a great Massacre but the killing of a hundred thousand is a greater B. I am glad the Bishops were out at this business as ambitious as some say they are it did not appear in that business for they were Enemies to them that were in it A. But I intend not by these Quotations to commend either the Divinity nor the Philosophy of those Heathen People but to shew only what the Reputation of those Sciences can effect among the People For their Divinity was nothing but Idolatry and their Philosophy excepting the knowledge of the Aegyptian Priests and from them the Chaldaeans had gotten by long Observation and Study in Astronomy Geometry and Arithmetick very little and that in great part abused in Astrology and Fortune-telling whereas the Divinity of the Clergy in this Nation now considered apart from the mixture that has been introduced by the Church of Rome and in part retained here of the babling Philosophy of Aristotle and other Greeks that has no Affinity with Religion and serves only to breed Disaffection Dissention and finally Sedition and Civil War as we have lately found by dear Experience in the Differences between the Presbyterians and Episcopals is the true Religion But for these Differences both Parties as they were in Power not only suppressed the Tenents of one another but also whatsoever Doctrine lookt with an ill aspect upon their Interest and consequently all true Philosophy especially Civil and Moral which can never appear propitious to Ambition or to an Exemption from Obedience due to the Soveraign Power After the King had accused the Lord Kimbolton a Member of the Lords House and Hollis Haslâ—rig Hampden Prinn and Stroud Five Members of the Lower House of High Treason and after the Parliament had Voted out the Bishops from the House of Peers they pursued especially two things in their Petitions to His Majesty the one was that the King would declare who were the persons that advised him to go as he did to the Parliament-House to apprehend them and that he would leave them to the Parliament to receive condign punishment and this they did to stick upon His Majesty the dishonour of Deserting his Friends and betraying them to his Enemies the other was that he would allow a Guard out of the City of London to be commanded by the Earl of Essex for which they pretended they could not else sit in safety which pretence was nothing but an upbraiding of His Majesty for coming to Parliament better accompanied than ordinary to seize the said five seditious Members B. I see no reason in petitioning for a Guard they should determine it to the City of London in particular and the Command by name to the Earl of Essex unless they meant the King should understand it a Guard against himself A. Their meaning was that the King should understand it so and as I verily believe they meant he should take it as an affront and the King himself understanding it so denied to grant it though he were willing if they could not otherwise be satisfied to Command such a Guard to wait upon them as he would be responsible for to God Almighty Besides this the City of London petition'd the King put upon it no doubt by some Members of the Lower House to put the Tower of London into the hands of persons of Trust meaning such as the Parliament should approve of And so appoint a Guard for the safety of His Majesty and the Parliament This method of bringing petitions in a Tumultary Manner by great Multitudes of Clamorous people was ordinary with the House of Commons whose Ambition could never have been served by way of Prayer and Request without extraordinary terror After the King had waved the
prosecution of the Five Members but denied to make known who had advised Him to come in person to the House of Commons they questioned the Attorney General who by the King's Command had Exhibited the Articles against them and voted Him A Breaker of the Priviledge of Parliameut And no doubt had made him feel their Cruelty if he had not speedily fled the Land About the end of January they made an Order of both Houses of Parliament to prevent the going over of Popish Commanders into Ireland not so much fearing that as that by this the King Himself choosing his Commanders for that Service might aid Himself out of Ireland against the Parliament But this was no great matter in respect of a Petition they sent His Majesty about the same time that is to say about the Twenty seventh or Twenty eighth of January 1641. wherein they desired in effect the absolute Sovereignty of England though by the name of Sovereignty they challeng'd it not whil'st the King was living for to the End that the Fears and Dangers of this Kingdom might be removed and the mischievous Designs of those who are Enemies to the Peace of it might be prevented they pray that His Majesty would be pleased to put forthwith First The Tower of London Secondly All other Forts Thirdly The whole Militia of the Kingdom into the hands of such persons as should be recommended to him by both the Houses of Parliament And this they stile a necessary Petition B. Were there really any such Fears and Dangers generally conceived here or did there appear any Enemies at that time with such Designs as are mentioned in the Petition A. Yes but no other fear of Danger but such as discreet and honest Men might justly have of the Designs of the Parliament it self who were the greatest Enemies to the Peace of the Kingdom that could possibly be 'T is also worth observing that this Petition began with these words Most Gracious Sovereign so stupid they were as not to know that he that is Master of the Militia is Master of the Kingdom and consequently is in possession of a most absolute Sovereignty The King was now at Winsor to avoid the Tumults of the Common People before the Gates at Whitehall together with the Clamors and Affronts there the Ninth of February after he came to Hampton Court and thence went to Dover with the Queen and the Princess of Orange his Daughter where the Queen with the Princess of Orange embarked for Holland but the King returned to Greenwich whence he sent for the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York and so went with them towards York B. Did the Lords join with the Commons in this Petition for the Militia A. It appears so by the Title but I believe they durst not but do it the House of Commons took them but for a Cypher Men of Title onely without real power but they were very much mistaken for the House of Commons never intended they should be sharers in it B. What Answer made the King to this Petition A. That when He shall know the Extent of Power which is intended to be established in those persons whom they desire to be the Commanders of the Militia in the several Counties and likewise to what time it shall be limited that no Power shall be Executed by His Majesty alone without the advice of Parliament then he will declare that for the securing them from all Dangers or Jealousies of any then His Majesty will be content to put into all the places both Forts and Militia in the several Counties such persons as both the Houses of Parliament shall either approve or recommend unto him so that they declare before unto His Majesty the names of the persons whom they approve or recommend unless such persons shall be nam'd against whom he shall have just and unquestionable Exceptions B. What Power For what Time And to whom did the Parliament grant concerning the Militia A. The same Power which the King had before planted in his Lieutenants and his Deputy-Lieutenants in the several Counties and without other limitation of time but their own pleasure B. Who were the Men that had this Power A. There is a Catalogue of them Printed they are very many and most of them Lords nor is it necessary to have them nam'd for to name them is in my opinion to brand them with the mark of Disloyalty or of Folly When they had made a Catalogue of them they sent it to the King with a new Petition for the Militia Also presently after they sent a Message to His Majesty praying Him to leave the Prince at Hampton Court but the King granted neither B. Howsoever it was well done of them to get Hostages if they could of the King before He went from them A. In the mean time to raise Mony for the reducing of Ireland the Parliament invited Men to bring in Mony by way of Adventure according to these Propositions First That two Millions and five hundred thousand Acres of Land in Ireland should be assigned to the Adventurers in this proportion For an Adventure of 200 l. 1000 Acres in Ulster 300 l. 1000 Acres in Conaught 450 l. 1000 Acres in Munster 600 l. 1000 Acres in Leinster All according to English Measure and consisting of Meadow arable and profitable Pasture Bogs Woods and Barren Mountains being cast in over and above Secondly A Revenue was reserv'd to the Crown from 1d to 3d. on every Acre Thirdly That Commissions should be sent by the Parliament to erect Mannors settle Wastes and Commons maintain preaching Ministers to create Corporations and to regulate Plantations The rest of the Propositions concern only the times and manner of payment of the Sums subscribed by the Adventurers and to those Propositions His Majesty assented but to the Petition for the Militia His Majesty denied His Assent B. If He had not I should have thought it a great Wonder What did the Parliament after this A. They sent Him another Petition which was presented to Him when He was at Theobalds in his way to York wherein they tell Him plainly That unless He be pleased to assure them by those Messengers them sent that He would speedily apply His Royal Assent to the satisfaction of their former Desires they shall be forc'd for the Safety of His Majesty and His Kingdoms to dispose of the Militia by the Authority of both Houses c. They Petition'd His Majesty also to let the Prince stay at St. James 's or some other of His Majesties Houses near London They tell him also That the Power of Raising Ordering and Disposing of the Militia cannot be granted to any Corporation without the Authority and Consent of Parliament And those Parts of the Kingdom that have put themselves into a posture of Defence have done nothing therein but by direction of both Houses and what is justifiable by the Laws of this Kingdom B. What Answer made the King to this A. It
made whether they be Good or Bad whereas the words signifie no more but that he shall protect and corroborate such Laws as they have chosen that is to say the Acts of Parliament then in being And in the Records of the Exchequer it is thus Will you grant to hold and keep the Laws and rightful Customs which the Commonalty of this your Kingdom have And will you defend and uphold them c And this was the Answer His Majesty made to that Point B. I think his Answer very full and clear but if the words were to be interpreted in the other sense yet I see no reason why the King should be bound to swear to them for Henry IV. came to the Crown by the Votes of a Parliament not much inferior in wickedness to this Long Parliament that Deposed and Murdered their Lawful King saving that it was not the Parliament it self but the Usurper that murdered King Richard II. A. About a week after in the beginning of May the Parliament sent the King another Paper which they stil'd The Humble Petition and Advice of both Houses Containing Nineteen Propositions which when you shall hear you shall be able to judge what Power they meant to leave to the King more than to any of his Subjects The first of them is this I. That the Lords and other of His Majesties Privy Council and all great Officers of State both at home and abroad be put from their Imployments and from his Council save only such as should be approved of by both Houses of Parliament and none put into their places but by approbation of the said Houses And that all Privy Councillors take an Oath for the due Execution of their places in such form as shall be agreed upon by the said Houses II. That the great Affairs of the Kingdom be Debated Resolv'd and Transacted only in Parliament and such as shall presume to do any thing to the contrary to be reserv'd to the Censure oâ— the Parliament and such other Matters of State as are proper for His Majesties Privy Couneil shall be Debated and Concluded by such as shall from time to time be chosen for that place by both Houses of Parliament And that no Publick Act concerning the Affairs of the Kingdom which are proper for his Privy Council be esteemed valid as proceeding from the Royal Authority unless it be done by the Advice and Consent of the Major part of the Council attested under their Hands and that the Council be not more than 25 nor less than 15 and that when a Councillors place falls it shall not be supplied without the Assent of the Major part of the Council and that such Choice also shall be void if the next Parliament after confirm it not III. That the Lord High Steward of England Lord High Constable Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal Lord Treasurer Lord Privy Seal Earl Marshal Lord Admiral Warden of the Cinque Ports Chief Governor of Ireland Chancellor of the Exchequer Master of the Wards Secretaries of State Two Chief Justices and Chief Baron be always chosen with the Approbation of both Houses of Parliament and in the Intervals of Parliament by the Major part of the Privy Council IV. That the Government of the King's Children shall be committed to such as both Houses shall approve of and in the Intervals of Parliament such as the Privy Council shall approve of that the Servants then about them against whom the Houses have just exception should be remov'd V. That no Marriage be concluded or treated of for any of the King's Children without consent of Parliament VI. That the Laws in force against Jesuits Priests and Popish Recusants be strictly put in execution VII That the Votes of Popish Lords in the House of Peers be taken away and that a Bill be passed for the Education of the Children of Papists in the Protestant Religion VIII That the King will be pleas'd to reform the Church-Government and Liturgy in such manner as both Houses of Parliament shall advise IX That he would be pleased to rest satisfied with that course the Lords and Commons have appointed for ordering the Militia and recall his Declarations and Proclamations against it X. That such Members as have been put out of any Place or Office since this Parliament began may be restor'd or have satisfaction XI That all Privy Councillors and Judges take an Oath the form whereof shall be agreed on and setled by Act of Parliament for the maintaining the Petition of Right and of certain Statutes made by the Parliament XII That all the Judges and Officers placed by Approbation of both Houses of Parliament may held their places quamdiu bene se gesserint XIII That the Justice of Parliament may pass upon all Delinquents whether they be within the Kingdom or fled out of it and that all persons cited by either House of Parliament may appear and abide the Censure of Parliament XIV That the General Pardon offered by his Majesty be granted with such Exceptions as shall be advised by both Houses of Parliament B. What a spightful Article was this All the rest proceeded from Ambition which many times well-natur'd men are subject to but this proceeded from an inhumane and devilish cruelty A. XV. That the Forts and Castles be put under the Command of such Persons as with the Approbation of the Parliament the King shall appoint XVI That the extraordinary Guards about the King be discharged and for the future none raised but according to the Law in case of actual Rebellion or Invasion B. Methinks these very Propositions sent to the King are an actual Rebellion A. XVII That His Majesty enter into a more strict Alliance with the United Provinces and other Neighbour Protestant Princes and States XVIII That His Majesty be pleased by Act of Parliament to clear the Lord Kimbolton and the Five Members of the House of Commons in such manner as that future Parliaments may be secur'd from the consequence of evil Precedent XIX That His Majesty be pleased to pass a Bill for restraining Peers made hereafter from sitting or voting in Parliament unless they be admitted with consent of both Houses of Parliament These Propositions granted they promise to apply themselves to regulate His Majesties Revenue to his best advantage and to settle it to the support of his Royal Dignity in Honour and Plenty and also to put the Town of Hull into such hands as His Majesty shall appoint with consent of Parliament B. Is not that to put it into such hands as His Majesty shall appoint by the consent of the Petitioners which is no more than to keep it in their hands as it is Did they want or think the King wanted common sense so as not to perceive that their promise herein was worth nothing A. After the sending of these Propositions to the King and His Majesties refusal to grant them they began on both sides to prepare for War the King raising
this Bill for the continuing of the Parliament as long as the Two Houses pleas'd But now that the War was resolv'd on on both sides what needed any more dispute in writings A. I know not what need they had but on both sides they thought it needful to hinder one another as much as they could from levying of Soldiers and therefore the King did set forth Declarations in Print to make the people know that they ought not to obey the Officers of the new Militia set up by Ordinance of Parliament and also to let them see the Legality of His own Commissions of Array and the Parliament on their part did the like to justifie to the people the said Ordinance and to make the Commission of Array appear unlawful B. When the Parliament were Levying of Soldiers was it not lawful for the King to Levy Soldiers to defend Himself and His Right though there had been no other Title for it but His own preservation and that the name of Commission of Array had never been heard of A. For my part I think there cannot be a better Title for War than the defence of a Man 's own Right but the People at that time thought nothing lawful for the King to do for which there was not some Statute made by Parliament For the Lawyers I mean the Judges of the Courts of Westminster and some few others though but Advocates yet of great Reputation for their skill in the Common Laws and Statutes of England had infected most of the Gentry of England with their Maxims and Cases prejudg'd which they call Precedents and made them think so well of their own knowledge in the Law that they were of this occasion to shew it against the King and thereby to gain a Reputation with the Parliament of being good Patriots and wise Statesmen B. What was this Commission of Array A. King William the Conqueror had gotten into his hands by Victory all the Lands in England of which he disposed some part as Forests and Chaces for his own Recreation and some part to Lords and Gentlemen that had assisted him or were to assist him in the Wars upon which he laid a charge of service in his Wars some with more Men and some with less according to the Lands he had given them whereby when the King sent Men unto them with Commission to make use of their Service they were obliged to appear with Arms and to accompany the King to the Wars for a certain time at their own Charges and such were the Commissions by which this King did then make his Levies B. Why then was it not Legal A. No doubt but it was Legal but what did that amount to with Men that were already resolv'd to acknowledge for Law nothing that was against their design of abolishing Monarchy and placing a sovereign and absolute Arbitrary power in the House of Commons B. To destroy Monarchy and set up the House of Commons are two Businesses A. They found it so at last but did not think it so then B. Let us come now to the Military power A. I intended only the Story of their Injustice Impudence and Hypocrisie therefore for the proceeding of the War I refer you to the History thereof written at large in English I shall only make use of such a Thread as is necessary for the filling up of such Knavery and Folly also as I shall observe in their several Actions From York the King went to Hull where was His Magazine of Arms for the Northern Parts of England to try if they would admit Him the Parliament had made Sir John Hotham Governor of the Town who caused the Gates to be shut and presenting himself upon the walls flatly denied Him entrance for which the King caused him to be proclaim'd Traytor and sent a Message to the Parliament to know if they own'd the Actions B. Upon what grounds A. Their pretence was this That neither this nor any other Town in England was otherwise the Kings than in Trust for the People of England B. But what was that to the Parliament A. Yes say they for we are the Representative of the People of England B. I cannot see the force of this Argument We represent the People Ergo all that the People has is ours The Mayor of Hull did represent the King Is therefore all the King had in Hull the Mayor's The People of England may be represented with Limitations as to deliver a Petition or the like does it follow that they who deliver the Petition have Right to all the Towns in England When began this Parliament to be a Representative of England Was it not November 3. 1640 Who was it the day before that had the Right to keep the King out of Hull and possess it for themselves For there was then no Parliament whose was Hull then A. I think it was the King's not only because it was called the King's Town upon Hull but because the King Himself did then and ever represent the Person of the People of England If He did not who then did the Parliament having no Being B. They might perhaps say the People had then no Representative A. Then there was no Commonwealth and consequently all the Towns of England being the Peoples you and I and any Man else might have put in for his share You may see by this what weak People they were that were carried into the Rebellion by such weak reasoning as this Parliament used and how impudent they were that did put such Fallacies upon them B. Surely they were such as were esteem'd the wisest Men in England being upon that account chosen to be the Parliament A. And were they also esteem'd the wisest Men of England that chose them B. I cannot tell that for I know it is usual with the Freeholders in the Counties and the Tradesmen in the Cities and Burroughs to choose as near as they can such as are most repugnant to the giving of Subsidies A. The King in the beginning of August after He had summon'd Hull and tryed some of the Counties thereabout what they would do for Him set up His Standard at Nottingham but there came not in thither Men enough to make any Army sufficient to give Battel to the Earl of Essex From thence He went to Shrewsbury where He was quickly furnished and appointing the Earl of Linsâ—y to be General He resolv'd to march towards London The Earl of Essex was at Worcester with the Parliament Army making no offer to stop Him in His passage but as soon as He was gone by marched close after Him The King therefore to avoid being inclosed between the Army of the Earl of Essex and the City of London turned upon him and gave him Battel at Edge-hill where though He got not an intire Victory yet He had the better if either had the better and had certainly the fruit of a Victory which was to march on in his intended way towards London in which
Ordinance which the House would afterward have recalled but were forc'd by Cromwel to keep their word The Scotch were displeas'd with it partly because their Brethren the Presbyterians had lost a great deal of their Power in England and partly also because they had sold the King into their hands The King now published a passionate Complaint to his People of this hard dealing with him which made them pity him but not yet rise in his behalf B. Was not this think you the true time for Cromwel to take possession A. By no means there were yet many Obstacles to be removed he was not General of the Army the Army was still for a Parliament the City of London discontented about their Militia the Scots expected with an Army to rescue the King his Adjutators were Levellers and against Monarchy who though they had helped him to bring under the Parliament yet like Dogs that are easily taught to fetch and not easily taught to render would not make him King so that Cromwel had these businesses following to overcome 1. To be Generalissimo 2. To remove the King 3. To suppress all Insurrections 4. To oppose the Scots And Lastly To dissolve the present Parliament Mighty businesses which he could never promise himself to overcome therefore I cannot believe he then thought to be King but only by serving the strongest Party which was always his main policy to proceed as far as Fortune and that would carry him B. The Parliament were certainly no less foolish than wicked in deserting thus the King before they had the Army at a better Command than they had A. In the beginning of 1648. the Parliament gave Commission to Philip Earl of Pembroke then made Chancellour of Oxford together with some of the Doctors there as good Divines as he to purge the University by vertue whereof they turn'd out all such as were not of their Faction and all such as had approved the use of the Common-Prayer-Book as also divers scandalous Ministers and Scholars that is such as customarily and without need took the Name of God into their mouths or used to speak wantonly or use the company of lewd Women and for this last I cannot but commend them B. So shall not I for it is just such another piece of Piety as to turn Men out of an Hospital because they are lame Where can a man probably learn Godliness and how to correct his Vices better than in the Universities erected for that purpose A. It may be the Parliament thought otherwise for I have often heard the Complaint of Parents that their Children were debauched there to Drunkenness Wantonness Gaming and other Vices consequent to these Nor is it a wonder among so many Youths if they did not corrupt one another in despite of their Tutors who oftentimes were little Elder than themselves And therefore I think the Parliament did not much reverence the Institution of Universities as to the bringing up of young men to Vertue though many of them learn'd there to Preach and became thereby capable of Preferment and Maintenance and some others were sent thither by their Parents to save themselves the trouble of governing them at home during that time wherein Children are least governable Nor do I think the Parliament car'd more for the Clergy than other men did But certainly an University is an excellent servant to the Clergy and the Clergy if it be not carefully lookt to by their Dissentious Doctrines and by the advantage to publish their Dissentions is no extraordinary means to divide a Kingdom into Faction B. But seeing there is no place in this part of the World where Philosophy and other Humane Sciences are not highly valued where can they be learned better than in the Universities A. What other Sciences Do not Divines comprehend all Civil and Moral Philosophy within their Divinity And as for Natural Philosophy is it not remov'd from Oxford and Cambridge to Gresham-College in London and to be learn'd out of their Gazets But we are gone from our Subject B. No we are indeed gone from the great business of the Kingdom to which if you please let us return A. The first Insurrection or rather Tumult was of the Apprentices on the ninth of April but this was not upon the Kings account but arose from a customary assembly of them for recreation in Moor-fields whence some zealous Officers of the Train'd-Bands would needs drive them away by force but were themselves routed with stones and had their Ensign taken away by the Apprentices which they carried about in the Streets and frighted the Lord Mayor into his House where they took a Gun called a Drake and then they set Guards at some of the Gates and all the rest of the day Childishly swagger'd up and down but the next day the General himself marching into the City quickly dispersed them This was but a small business but enough to let them see that the Parliament was ill belov'd of the people Next the Welch took Arms against them there were three Colonels in Wales Langhorn Poyer and Powel who had formerly done the Parliament good services but now were commanded to disband which they refus'd to do and the better to strengthen themselves declar'd for the King and were about eight thousand About the same time in Wales also was another Insurrection headed by Sir Nocholas Keymish and another under Sir John Owen so that now all Wales was in Rebellion against the Parliament And yet all these were overcome in a Months time by Cromwel and his Officers but not without store of blood-shed on both sides B. I do not much pity the loss of those men that impute to the King that which they do upon their own quarrel A. Presently after this some of the people of Surrey sent a Petition to the Parliament for a Personal Treaty between the King and Parliament but their Messengers were beaten home again by the Souldiers that quartered about Westminster and then the Kentish men having a like Petition to deliver and seeing how it was like to be receiv'd threw it away and took up Arms they had many gallant Officers and for General the Earl of Norwich and increas'd daily by Apprentices and old disbanded Souldiers insomuch as the Parliament was glad to restore to the City their Militia and to keep Guards upon the Thames side and then Fairfax marched towards the Enemy B. And then the Londoners I think might easily and suddenly have Master'd first the Parliament and next Fairfax his eight thousand and lastly Cromwels Army or at least have given the Scotch Army opportunity to march unfought to London A. 'T is true but the City was never good at venturing nor were they or the Scots principled to have a King over them but under them Fairfax marching with eight thousand against the Royalists routed a part of them at Maidstone another part were taking in of places in Kent farther off and the Earl of Norwich with the rest
wisest and fittest to be chosen for a Parliament who was most averse to the granting of Subsidies or other publick Payments B. In such a Constitution of People methinks the King is already outed of his Government so as they need not have taken Arms for it For I cannot imagine how the King should come by any means to resist them A. There was indeed very great difficulty in the business but of that point you will be better informed in the pursuit of this Narration B. But I desire to know first the several grounds of the Pretences both of the Pope and of the Presbyterians by which they claim a Right to govern us as they do in chief and after that from whence and when crept in the Pretences of that Long Parliament for a Democrasie A. As for the Papists they challenge this Right from a Text in Deut. 17. and other like Texts according to the Old Latin Translation in these words And he that out of Pride shall refuse to obey the Commandment of that Priest which shall at that time Minister before the Lord thy God that man shall by the Sentence of the Judge be put to Death and because the Jews were the People of God then so is all Christendom the People of God now they infer from thence that the Pope whom they pretend to be High Priest of all Christian People ought also to be obeyed in all his Decrees by all Christians upon pain of Death Again whereas in the New Testament Christ saith all Power is given unto me in Heaven and in Earth go therefore and teach all Nations and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and teach them to observe all those things that I have commanded you from thence they inâ—er that the Command of the Apostles was to be obeyed by consequence the Nations were bound to be governed by them and especially by the Prince of the Apostles St. Peter and by his Successors the Popes of Rome B. For the Text in the Old Testament I do not see how the Commandment of God to the Jews to obey their Priests can be interpreted to have the like force in the Case of other Nations Christian more then upon Nations Unchristian For all the world are Gods People unless we also grant that a King cannot of an Infidel be made Christian without making himself subject to the Laws of that Apostle or Priest or Minister that shall convert him The Jews were a peculiar People of God a Sacerdotal Kingdom and bound to no other Law but what first Moses and afterwards every High Priest did go and receive immediately from the Mouth of God in Mount Sinai in the Tabernacle of the Ark and in the Sanctum Sanctorum of the Temple And for the Text in St. Mathew I know the words in the Gospel are not Go teach but Go and make Disciples and that there is a great difference between a Subject and a Disciple and between teaching and commanding and if such Texts as these must be so interpreted why do not Christian Kings lay down their Titles of Majesty and Soveraignty and call themselves the Popes Lieutenants But the Doctors of the Romish Church seem to decline that Title of Absolute Power in their distinction of Power Spiritual and Temporal but this Distinction I do not very well understand A. By Spiritual Power they mean the Power to determine Points of Faith and to be Judges in the Inner Court of Conscience of Moral Duties and of a Power to punish those men that obey not their Precepts by Ecclesiastical Censure that is by Excommunication and this Power they say the Pope hath immediately from Christ without dependance upon any King or Soveraign Assembly whose Subjects they 〈◊〉 that stand Excommunicate But for the Power Temporal which consists in judging and punishing those Actions that are done against the Civil Law they say they do not pretend to it directly but only indirectly That is to say so far forth as such Actions tend to the hinderance or advancement of Religion in ordine ad Spiritualia B. What Power then is leâ—t to Kings and other Civil Soveraignâ— which the Pope may not pretend to be in ordine ad Spiritualia A. None or very little and this Power the Pope not only pretends to in all Christendom but some of his Bishops also in their several Diâ—cesses jure Divino 〈◊〉 that is immediately from Christ without deriving it from the Pope B. But what if a man refuse Obedience to this pretended Power of the Pope and his Bishops what harm can Excommunication do him especially if he be a Subject of an other Soveraign A. Very great harm for by the Popes or Bishops Signification of it to the Civil Power he shall be punished sufficiently B. He were in an ill Case then that adventured to write or speak in defence of the Civil Power that must be punished by him whose Rights he desâ—nded â—ike Uzza that was slain because he would needs unbidden put forth his hand to keep the Ark from falling But what if a whole Nation should revolt from the Pope at once What effect could Excommunication have upon the Nation A. Why they should have no more Mass said at least by any of the Popes Priests Besides the Pope would have no more to do with them but cast them off and so they would be in the same Case as if a Nation should be cast off by their King and left to be Governed by themselves or whom they would B. This would not be taken so much for a Punishment to the People as to the King and therefore when a Pope Excommunicates a whole Nation methinks he rather Excommunicates himself than them But I pray you tell me what were the Rights the Pope pretended to in the Kingdoms of other Princes A. First an Exemption of all Priests Friâ—rs and Monks in Criminal Causes from the Cognizance of Civil Judges Secondly Collation of Benefices on whom he pleased Native or Stranger and Exaction of Tenths Fruits and other payments Thirdly Appeals to Râ—me in all Causes where the Church could pretend to be concern'd Fourthly To be the â—upreme Judge concerning the Lawfullness of Marriage i. e. concerning the Hereditarâ— Succession of Kings and to have the Cognizance of all Causes concerning Adultery and Fornication B Good A Monopoly of Women A. Fifthly A power of absolving Subjects of their Duties and of their Oathes of Fidelity to their Lawful Soveraigns when the Pope should think fit for the Extirpation of Heresie B. This power of Absolving Subjects of their Obedience as also that other of being Judges of Manners and Doctrine is as absolute a Soveraignty as is possible to be and consequently there must be two Kingdoms in one and the same Nation and so no man be able to know which of his Masters he must obey A. For my part I should rather obey that Master that had the Right of Making