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parliament_n	army_n	city_n	london_n	3,465	5	7.2357	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A31788	The Kings Maiesties answer to a late petition presented unto him by the hands of Mr. Alexander Henderson, from the commissioners of the Generall Assemblie of the Kirk of Scotland with their humble remonstrance and renewed petition to the Kings Most Excellent Majestie, from their meeting at Edinburgh, June 2, 1643.	England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I); Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Ker, A.; Church of Scotland. General Assembly. Commission.	1643 (1643)	Wing C2098; ESTC R35826	16,804	32

Government We conceived the answer formerly given by us to the former petition in this argument would have satisfied the petitioners and is so full that we can adde little to it viZ. That the government here established by the lawes hath so neare a relation and intermixture with the Civill State which may be unknown to the petitioners that til a composed disgested form be presented to us upon a free debate of both Houses in a Parliamentary way whereby the consert and approbation of this whole Kingdom may be had and We and all our subjects may discerne what is to be left in or brought in as well as what is to be taken away We know not how to consent to any alteration other wise then to such an act for the ease of tender consciences in the matter of Ceremonies as We have often offered and that this and any thing else that may concerne the peace of the Church and the advancement of Gods true Religion may be soberly discussed and happily effected We have formerly offered and are still willing that debates of that nature may be entered into by a Syned of godly and learned Divines to be regularly chosen according to the Laws and Customes of this Kingdome To which we shall bee willing that some learned Divines of our Church of Scotland be likewise sent to be present and offer and debate their Reasons With this answer the petitioners had great reason to acquiesce without enlarging the matter of their former petition only with bitter expressions against the established government and laws of their neighbour Nation as if it were contrary to the word of God with whom they have so lately entred into a strict amity and friendship But we cannot enough wonder that the petitioners should interpose themselves not only as fit directors and judges betwen Us and Our two Houses of Parliament in businesse so wholly concerning the peace and government of this our kingdome and in a matter so absolutely entrusted to us as what new laws to consent or not to consent to But should assume and publish That the desire of reformation in this kingdome is in a peaceable and Parliamentary way When all the world may know That the proceedings here have bene and are not only contrary to all the rules and precedents of former Parliaments but destructive to the freedome priviledge and dignity of Parliaments themselves that wee were first driven by tumults for the safety of our life from our cities of London and Westminster and have bene since pursued fought withall and are now kept from thence by an army raysed as is pretended by the two Houses which consist not of the fourth part of the number they ought to do the rest being either driven from thence by the same violence or expell'd or imprisoned for not consenting to the treasons and unheard of Insolencies practised against us And if the petitioners could beleeve these proceedings to be in a peaceable Parliamentary way they were very unacquainted with the order and constitution of this Kingdome and not so fit instruments to promote that reformation and peace they seeme to desire We cannot beleeve the intermixture of the present Ecclesiasticall government with the Civill State to be other then a very good reason and that the governement of the Church should be by the rules of humane policy to be other then a very good rule unlesse some other government were as well proved as pretended to be better warranted by God Of any bills offerd us for reformation we shall not now speak they being a part of those articles upon which we have offered and expect to treats but cannot but wonder by what authority you prejudge our judgement herein by denouncing Gods anger upon us and our hazard of the losse of the hearts of all our good Subjects if we consent not unto them The influence of so many blessings from heaven upon the reignes of Queen Elizabeth and our father of blessed memory and the acknowledgement of them by all Protestant Churches to have been carefull nurses to the Church of Christ and to have excellentlie discharged their duties in the custody and vindication of religion and the affection of their Subjects to them do sufficiently assure Us that we should neither stop the influence of such blessings nor grieve the hearts of all the godly nor hazard the losse of the hearts of our good Subjects although we still maintaine in this Kingdome the same establisht Ecclesiasticall government which flourisht in their times and under their speciall protection We doubt not but our Subjects of Scotland will rest aboundantly satisfied with such alterations in their owne Church as we have assented unto and not bee perswaded by a meer assertion that there is no hope of the continuance of what is there setled by law unlesse that bee likewise altered which is setled here And our Subjects of England will never depart from their dutifull affection to Us for not consenting to new laws which by the law of the land they know We may as justly reject if we approve not of them as either house hath power to prepare for or both to propound to us Nor are you a little mistaken if either you beleeve the generality of this Nation to desire a change of Church-government or that most of those who desire it desire by it to introduce that which you onely esteeme a reformation but are as unwilling to what you call the yoke of Christ and obedience to the Gospell as those whom you call prophane and worldly men and so equally averse both to Episcopacy and Presbyterie that if they should prevaile in this particular the abolition of the one would be no inlet to the other nor would your hearts bee lesse grieved your expectations lesse frustrated your hopes lesse ashamed or your reformation more secured And the petitioners upon due consideration will not finde themselves lesse mistaken in the government of all the reformed Churches which they say is by Assemblies then they are in the best way of a reformation which sure is best to be in a common and ordinary way where the passion or interest of particular men may not impose upon the publique but alteration be then onely made when upon calmed debates and evident and cleare Reason and convenience the same shall be generally consented to for the peace and security of the people and those who are trusted by the Law with such debates are not divested of that trust upon a generall charge of corruptions pretended to have entred by that way and of being the persons to be reformed and so unfit to bee Reformers And certainly the like Logick with the like charges and pretences might be used to make the Parliament it self an incapable Judge of any Reformation either in Church or State For the generall expressions in the Petition against Papists in which the petitioners may bee understood to charge Us with complyance and favour even to their opinions Wee have taken all

Irish-rebellion beseeching God to manisest your Sacred Majesties innocencie to all the world They made mention of the miseries of Ireland for no other end but to represent the danger of your Majesties Kingdomes through the prevailing power of the Popish faction The British Papists at this time being animated by the same spirit working upon the same principles enraged with the same furies breathing out the same threatnings and slaughter aiming at the same ends and emboldened with the same presumptions with the Papists of Ireland their confederates And withall to present our earnest desires for a pacification that both the armies may bee sent against that horride rebellion and peace restored to all your Majesties Dominions The expression in our Petition of Unitie in Religion we have borrowed from the Article in the Treatie accorded unto by your Majestie from the Declarations of the Parliament and from the Generall Assemblie By which is meaned no other thing but one Confession of Faith one common directorie for worship and one Gate chisme The Papists may know that the true Kirk in all ages hath been troubled with differences and contentions as great as any now against the reformed Kirks which many of the godly have lamented and studied to compose and as it was written of some hereticks of old They themselves sacrifice in schisme and dissention and greet the world with the name of peace whom they drive from the peace of their salvation They therefore cannot hence authorize their scandall against the reformation yet the smallest differences of practise and diversitie of the expressions are matter of strife to the contentious of hinderance of edification to the ignorant of stumbling to the weake and of grief to the godly when thereby they see against religious Unitie and Christian love the bowels of the Kirk rent assunder and people scandalously divided in some parts of the worship of God All which evil might be perfectly cured in all your Majesties dominions the mouthes of Papists scopped schisme and separation hereafter prevented and the face of the Kirke filled with true beautie and splendor to your Majesties greater glory and the greater terrour of all your enemies by this blessed and never enough desired Unitie in Religion Without which tender consciences being freed from constraine may bee in some degree eased by your Majestie but shall never have rest and be satisfied nor shall the rent of the Kirk arising from different or contrary practises be cured but shall from time to time increase Concerning uniformity in Kirk government our hopes thereof and of the unitie of Religion grounded upon the Article of the Treatie made this Kirk and Kingdome to enter into the more strict amitie and friendship with England And that the amitie and friendship builded upon such a foundation might be the more firme and durable they have since pressed the same by their Petitions and Declarations in all humilitie and love without any bitternesse of expression Onely they have declared the government of the Kirk by Assemblies in their strong and beautifull order and subordination to bee by divine right and that as Prelacie is confessed in this your Majesties answer to be by the rule of humane policie so to bee almost universally acknowledged by the Prelates themselves and their adherents to be but a humane institution introduced by humane reason and setled by humane law and custom for supposed conveniencie which therefore by humane authoritie without wronging any mans conscience may be altered and abolished upon so great a necessity as is a heartie conjunction of all the reformed Kirks a firme and well grounded peace between the two Kingdomes formerly divided in themselves and betwixt themselves by this partition wall and a perfect Union of the two Kirks in the two Nations which although by the providence of God in one Island and under one Monarch yet ever since the Reformation have been at greater difference in the point of Kirk government which in all places hath a powerfull influence upon all the parts of Religion then any other reformed Kirks although in nations at greatest distance and under diverse Princes Papacie is the greatest cause of schisme in the Christian Kirk and Episcopacie devised by man to bee a cure the greatest cause of schisme in the reformed Kirks As the mutuall relation and conjunction of true Ecclestasticall and Civill government is a corroboration of both so do we conceive that both are much weakened in their proper functions by that intermixture of the Ecclesiasticall government with the Civill State And as wee know the principles of Prelacie to be Popish and contrarie to the principles of Reformation So have we reason to beleeve That such an intermixture is not for your Majesties honour while they maintain and professe that Monarchie cannot subsist without Prelacie And that Prelacie had not been cast out of the Parliament if it had been profitable there And thought fit to bee altogether abolished if it had not been an unprofitable burthen to the Kingdome and pernicious to the civill State and common wealth As is contained more fully in the Declaration of both Houses of Parliament to the Generall Assemblie The following of humane inventions without and against Scripture and the ambition and covetousnesse of Kirkmen were observed of old to bee the corruptions which made many to call upon the Pope and the chiefe guides of the Kirke at that time for a reformation but all in vaine for that had been their own ruine to which in humane reason they would never willingly have consented That upon the same causes and corruptions there is a necessitie of the reformation of the Kirk of England Is as unanimously confessed as it is universally acknowledged that it is unlikely if not impossible to be obtained in the regulate and ordinarie way Upon the reason exprest afterward in your Majesties answer Because in the common and ordinary way the passion or interest of particular men will impose upon the publict For what greater privat interest then benefits and dignities Who more interessed in these then Bishops Deans Arch. deacons and such ordinary members of the convocation And ho can be more sueyed and by assed with passion then such as have this interest Whether this bee applyable to the Parliament whose places and dignities are uncontroverted and unquestionable it is not for us to judge but this we know when the corruptions of the Kirk are grown to such an height that she can neither beare her diseases nor endure the remedies it is the dutie of the magistrat and civill authoritie by the advice of the more sound and sincere part of the Kirke and Ministrie to endeavoure a reformation since no reformation worthie of that name can be expected from the corrupt Clergie nor hath at any time Religion been that way in any tolerable measure reformed When the evils are extraordinary the remedies must bee other then ordinary Scripture reason and experience of the Kirk teach in such an exigence of

a people to their Prince Whether the generality of the Nation desireth a change of Kirk government cannot bee better knowne then by the desires and Propositions of the representative hodie of the Kingdome nor can it bee better defyned what gogovernment shall be established than in a Synod of learned and godly Divines Our part is to wish the patterne is Scripture and the example of the best Reformed Kirks to be followed and to pray that God by his Spirit may lead them into all truth being confident that reformation having begun by your Majesties authoritie at the head and chiefest parts all sectaries and all the inferiour members may be quickly by a Synod brought to such order as may consist with truth and with the peace of the Kirk It was far from our intentions by the generall expressions of our Petition against Papists To charge your Ma. with complyance and favour to their opinions We do from our hearts blesse God for all that your Majestie hath done both here and in England against them and for so free and ample a testimonie of your Majesties desires of the Queenes conversion Jealousies of that kinde and hopes in the hearts of such as are popishly affected of their prevailing power proceed from the power of Papists in Ireland the present posture of Papists armed about your Majestie in this dangerous time of combustion in England and that for so long a time through the connivence or complyance of the Ministers of estate lawes have not been execute against them nor any means at all used for the Queenes conversion A necessary and essentiall duty from which no oath to the contrary can more give dispensation then any oath of old or late publick or private can binde your Majestie to maintaine Episcopacie or any corruption in the worshippe of God or government of the Kirk when God by his word giveth light and by his providence calleth for a Reformation All which had need to be seriously and tymously considered And if the Papists be not speedily disarmed the danger is that both in their owne project and upon the hearing of your Majesties Declaration to disarme them when there shall bee no more use of their service they band together and bend all their wits against a Pacification till by their gathering and growing to greater strength they be able to plead in equall termes for themselves for their share in the places and honours of the Kingdome at lest for peace and tolleration as a reward of all their paines charges and hazards pretended to bee for your Majesties honour and safety but really intended for themselves and their superstition We cannot conceive that loyaltie can be without allegeance or that Papists refusing to take the oath of allegeance do fight in loyaltie and allegeance to your Majestie but for their own ends nor can it bee safe for Protestants to trust them upon the principles of their profession in any whether intestine or forraigne warre In the time of the greatest forraigne invasion year 88. It was not thought safe to arme the Papists in defence of the Kingdome We did not take notice of Papists in the other armie in our Petition to your Majestie but did in our Declaration to the Parliament that although they had professed in their Declarations that they had no knowne Papists in their Armie yet if any were found to be we desired they might in like manner be disbanded Brownists Anabaptists and other sectaries which are the fruits of Prelacie one way as Papists are another are neither so easily knowne as Papists nor so much to be feared and although they be enemies to Religion and to the peace of the Kirk we know not whether they have been so considerable that the law hath taken so far notice of them as to disarme them We have so sincerely and from the inward of our spirits with our hearts and hands lifted up to the most high God the searcher of hearts sworne the care of the safty of your Majesties person and of your greatnesse and authoritie which we have also witnessed in our Declarations to the Houses of Parliament that our hearts within us were wounded when we did heare of the danger your Majesties person was in the 23 of October And as wee doe with the Houses of Parliament as is expressed in their Declaration rejoyce and heartily praise God for your safety So do we not cease to pray for your Majesties preservation in the midst of so many dangers and for a speedy deliverance by a happie peace which we trust shall burie that black and unnaturall day so unhappie and dangerous both to you Majestie and your people in eternall oblivion And therefore not to be paralelled by us with the unparalelled plot of the 5 of Novem. never to be forgoten We have detained your Majestie longer then your great affairs of governing Kingdomes in the time of war could well permit but not so long as the charge committed to us by the Generall Assemblie and the importance of our Petition which is of religious and publick concernment doth require The cry me of bitternesse and want of reverence to your Majestie the challenge of usurpation the aspersion of so much and manifold mistaking wee would bear the more patiently if we were to be considered as privat and particular persons and not as Commissioners of publick trust And yet do bear the more patiently because we take them and in this no man shall perswade us that we are mistaken to proceed from the pen of the writer and not from your Majesties justice and goodnesse unto which wee are bold to appeall from his unjust censure and from such slanderous tongues and pens as by traducing the preaching and praiers of the ministery here of disloyaltie or sedition do much wrong us your Majestie much more and truth and peace most of all Your Majestie in your wisedome will consider what such Sycophants are seeking and in your justice will rather beleeve our publick testimonie in things best known to our selves and to our ordinarie hearers then any private information flowing from the malice of some or the weakenes of others And now in your royall goodnesse will bee graciously pleased to suffer us your Maiesties most humble and faithfull Subjects to fall downe at your feet and with all earnestnesse to renew our Petition especially that of Unitie in Religion and uniformitie of Kirk Government in all your Majesties Dominions which wee conceive to be principally intended by divine Providence in these unhappie distractions and troubles of your Majesties Kingdomes And to this effect for such an Ecclesiasticall Assemblie as hath been formerly described and desired A mean so pious so just and so ordinarie in such cases as malice itselfe can have no colour to object against your Majestie for using it And which shall speedily bring on a firme and well grounded peace and with peace all other blessings spirituall and temporall upon your Majestie and your Kingdomes A. Ker. Cl Commiss Gen. Ass