by the institutions of the Holy Canons to be personally present and that of Right they cannot nor ought to be there and therefore they do not intend in any sort quomodolibet to be present but wholly to absent themselves while those matters are handling Can any man now have the fore-head to maintain that they could have a thought of challenging still a right contrary to such prohibitions and to say that it was only the Canon Law that did prohibit them I say still that the Canon Law was to them above all Laws and the Prelates of those times conceived themselves to be above all other Laws even not to be subject to them but what the Canon Law did allow or forbid was accordingly by them held to be most lawful or unlawful The Salvo they add makes it clear Iure paritatis nostrae cujuâ—…ibet eorum interessendi in dicto Parliamento quoad omnia singula inibi exercenda nostris eorum cujuâ—…ibet Statui Ordini congruentia in omnibus salbis The right of our Parity and of every one of them that is our equal right in the general and of every one of us in particular with the rest of the Lords of being present and acting in the said Parliament as to all things and every thing befitting our State and Order always remaining unto us safe and entire Now I would ask if it can be imagined that they would by way of Protestation reserve to themselves a liberty when they pleased to do what they said was not lawful for them to do and that which of right and according to the Law to which they were subject and must obey they could not nor ought to meddle with And if such things can be thought to be Statui Ordini congruentia for their Salvo extends only to such things as are agreeable to their State and Order Indeed I think it a solecism to have such a thought And I know it will be excepted against that I do take Paritas here in such a sense and not to be Nomen Apellativum to signifie Peerage a rank of men but I consider how it is put that it is Paritas interessendi in Parliamento which in my opinion is proper to render a Parity or an equal right with others to be present in Parliament But let them construe it Peerage it matters not to me I have handled that point fully by it self in my former Letter and shall do it again in this before I make an end to shew I am not afraid of that expression and though in those times the Prelates gave themselves sometimes that Character that it did not at all belong unto them And he beats upon this again That this was left out purposely by me in my citing this Protestation which I have sufficiently cleared already amongst his Postulata's therefore I shall not trouble you with it again in this place In the Case of Thomas Haxey 20 R. 2. my Gentleman is so ingenious as to say He believes the Bishops were not present but then he tells you why because it was an erroneous Judgment and an Irregular Condemnation and so commends their Prudence And sure he hath been with some Witch to raise some of those Prelates from the Grave as the Witch of Endor did Samuel to tell him the true cause why they withdrew themselves and did then forbear to use their Right as he saith it is lawful for every man to do else he could never have hit so pat upon the true cause of their withdrawing whereas otherwise a man might say it was because they knew they had no right to be there and if it had been their right they should the rather have made use of it to prevent and hinder an unrighteous Judgement and have caused a righteous one to be given And more than that if it was their Right and that they had a calling to be there they were bound to attend the Service and I think it would have been a breach of Duty and a Sin in them to withdraw themselves from it And now I come to a Bundle of Words indeed it is what he says concerning their Proxies 21 R. 2. out of which one shall have much ado to pick some sense and what it is he would be at I will do my endeavour in it He first puts us in mind of his fifth Postulatum and of what he said there of the difference between the Matter of a Law and the Manner of its enacting and that a Law may be repealed for the Matter of it and yet the Manner of making it still hold good This I suppose he saith because I except against the authority which that Parliament at the desire of the Commons gave the Bishops to make their Common Procurator in regard that whole Parliament was afterwards repealed and consequently all it did made null and void Yes saith he the Parliament was repealed by 1 H. 4. because it condemned those who were his friends as Traytors to the King and Government yet the proceedings in that Parliament were just and lawful To which I answer That what was done that Parliament agreeing with the practice and usage of other Parliaments was certainly just for the Manner of the doing though the Matter might be repealed and made null But what was never done before in any Parliament nor any thing like it could not receive any stamp of Authority for its being done in this Parliament because the Parliament it self had no authority a subsequent Parliament repealing it and making it as if it had never been And this of all the Bishops joyning to make a Common Proctor was never done in any Parliament before nor since If any should object that Henry the Fourth was an Usurper and had no right nor Title to repeal former Parliaments nor to make any Laws This were an Objection if it should be allowed would have a long tail and carry a very bad consequence for it would sweep away at once all the good Laws that were made in three Kings raigns and would make such a Hiatus in our Statute Laws as would put things into a very great disorder We know that in Edward the Fourth's time which followed immediately after those three Henries in all the Acts of Parliament which passed when mention is made of any thing done in those Kings Reigns still what was done is allowed of and confirmed and to their Persons and Government the Parliament still gives this Character that they were Kings indeed but not of right Which implies the stamp of Soveraign power and authority to be set upon all their actions and so upon the Parliaments that were summoned and held by them and principally there because of the concurrence and conjunction of the whole Kingdome in all things there done Nay in some Acts of Parliament we find care taken that nothing should clash with what had been done in Parliament by some of those Kings as 14 E. 4. c. 4. there is a Statute
would run through all the Tryals upon Record in that I have omitted four in that 4 E. 3. I shall give you an account of those Tryals in that Parliament and you will see that I could have no sinister end in not mentioning them and that all of them proved and confirmed my assertion that the Bishops had no part in any of them I expressed as much as was necessary to prove they were not present at Roger de Mortimers Earl of March who was the chief and the principal of those Delinquents and whose Tryal was the leading Case to all the rest I give you the words of the Record how after the exhibiting of the Articles against him the King bespake the Judges the Peers who were to judge him and charged them in these words Dont le dit Sr. le Roy vous charge Counts Barons les Piers de son Royalme que de st come cest choses touchent principalement a lui a vous a tout le people c. Therefore our said Lord the King charges you the Earls Barons Peers of his Realm that as these things chiefly concern him and you and all the people c. You give righteous Judgment I ask now if this be not as clear as the Sun at noon-day that by the words of this Record I charge you the Earls Barons Peers of the Realm which is the same as if he had said I charge you Earls and Barons who are the Peers of the Realm can be no otherwise understood but that only the Earls and Barons are the Peers that are there charged and none else to give this righteous Judgment The Earls and Barons are the two Species particularly enumerated and Peers is the genus which comprehends both And the same persons whom the King had so charged are they who tryed and gave Judgement upon the Earl of March as the Record shews it saying Les queux Countes Barons Piers c. did judge him guilty of those Treasons And the very same persons did give Judgement immediately in that very Parliament upon the rest viz. Sir Simon de Bereford John Mautravers Boeges de Bayons and the rest Therefore my not mentioning their Tryals which our Asserter lays to my charge as a Crime and a not doing what I had engaged my self to do which was to run through all the Tryals in those Parliament Rolls could not be designedly done with an intention to conceal any thing which made against me as it is maliciously and very falsely interpreted for they all made for me and it was a passing over sub silentio of so many Precedents that confirmed and fortified what I asserted And should you Sir ask me why I omitted the mentioning of them I profess I could give you no good account of it but that it was a meer inadvertency When the question first arose about the Judicature of the Bishops I took some short notes of some Copies of Records that I had and then seeing that all those particular Tryals in 4 E. 3. hung all upon one string and were managed by the same persons it seems I thought it then sufficient to set down the proceedings in the first which was the rule and foundation of the proceedings in the rest and afterwards when I came upon your request to take a little more pains in making my enquiry into the usage of ancient Parliaments I was afterwards more exact in it but when I wrote my Letter to you I made use of my notes which I had taken of the first Parliament and particularly of 4 E. 3. where these other Tryals as I say were left out But I shall now give you an account what they are and you will see it was not for my advantage to conceal them nor would it have been for our Asserters advantage if they had been mentioned but he quarrels at every thing Only give me leave before I come to that to set it down as a general Rule and a very true one That wherever there is an enumeration of particulars of several ranks and degrees which goes downwards beginning with the higher and ending with a lower and in the close a general expression is of Others to be added to and joined with them those others must not be of a higher rank and a superiour degree to that particular which is last mentioned but either of the same degree or of a lower This is a judged Case even in the business of Bishops in Cokes second Report in the Arch-bishop of Canterbury's Case p. 46. Ad este adjuge que Evesques ne sont include deins le Statute 13 Eliz. c. 10. It hath been adjudged that Bishops are not included in the Statute 13 Eliz. c. 10. which saith That Colledges Deans and Chapters Parsons Vicars and then concludes and Others having Spiritual Promotions that these last words cannot include Bishops for reasons before given which reasons are upon the Statute of 31 H. 8. concerning the dissolution of Abbies which mentioning their coming into the Kings hand by Renouncing Relinquishing Forfeiture Giving up c. and concludes with general words Or any other means this cannot be understood of an Act of Parliament which is a higher way of conveyance than any of those specified So Sir Edward Coke upon the Statute of Westminster the second c. 41. which saith Si Abbates Priores Custodes Hospitalium aliarum domorum Religiosarum c. hath this Comment Seeing this Act begins with Abbots c. and concludeth with other Religious Houses Bishops are not comprehended within this Act for they are superiour to Abbots c. and these words Other Religious Houses shall extend to Houses inferiour to them that were mentioned before So I conclude that the Record saying Earls and Barons and Peers c. the general words And Peers can comprehend none but some other Peers equal only or inferiour to Barons and not any above them as I am sure Bishops will say they are And I will tell you when those of a higher degree may and must be comprehended under a general expression that is when the Enumeration or Climax for so I may call it goes upwards beginning with a lower Rank and rising higher in those which they particularize As if it be said Barons Earls and all other Peers here Marquesses and Dukes will be comprehended and Bishops also would be if they were Peers which they are not but still I say if the enumeration descend none higher than the last mentioned can be understood to be meant by any general clause I think you are satisfied that the E. of March was Tryed and Judged only by the Temporal Lords to whom the K. had committed his Tryal and charged them only with it Sir Simon de Bereford was the next who was Tryed and by the same Persons the Record is Item en mesme le Parlement si chargea nostre Sur le Roy les ditz Countes Barons Piers a donner droit loyal Iugement come affiert
that I confess they might be so because it was in passing an Act of Parliament to confirm their Attainder But my Gentleman is mistaken as he commonly is almost in all his Assertions for the Cases are not parallel the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury had no Tryal had not been legally condemned and attainted but being taken in Circester by the Townsmen rising upon them were by them in a tumultuary manner put to death and the House of Peers afterwards in a judicial way adjudged the fact of those Lords Treason and them Traytors and this was done only by the Temporal Lords who are there particularly named But the Earl of Cambridge and the Lord Scroope had been Tryed Condemned and Executed at Southampton and this Judgement afterwards was brought into Parliament and there confirmed by Act of Parliam where the Bishops were and might be present but our Asserter hath ill luck in all his allegations And he will have as ill luck in what he saith to the Earl of Northumberland's Case 5 H. 4. where I am sure he begs the Question and doth Disputare ex non concesso for whereever Lords or Peers of Parliament are mentioned he will have the Bishops to be comprehended whereas those general words as all other such are to be understood Secundum subjectam materiam If it be in a Case where the Bishops are particularly by the Law of the Land and the continual practice in the execution of that Law excluded and others are comprized under the same general expression it must be understood of them only and not of those upon whom there is such a bar Now they who will have the Bishops to be Peers do not make them the sole and only Peers but allow Earls and Barons to be Peers with them But I do not allow them to be Peers at all our Asserter will prove them to be Peers by two Records Mautravers Case 4 E. 3. and their Protestation 11 R. 2. I have already given an account of what is in Mautravers Case the words are All the Peers the Earls and Barons being met c. Is it not ridiculous to expound this that by All the Peers is meant only the Bishops as if the dignity of the Peerage did principally belong to them that they should be Peers Sans queue as the French denominate a thing that belongs to some particular person more properly and in a more eminent degree than it doth to any body else Or is it not more rational and indeed only so to understand this expression to import that the Earls and Barons were the Peers who then met and that saying All the Peers the Earls and Barons c. the Earls and Barons are an Exegesis an exposition of the foregoing general denomination of Peers so Mautravers Case makes nothing for him but much against him And as to their own Protestation 11 R. 2. indeed they call themselves Peers there but that doth not make them so I have spoken to this point already very fully and sorry I am that I am forced to do it again and to do it so often but he leads me to it who doth as the Proverb saith Reciprocare serram go over and over the same thing as much as ever any man did I think and as often mistake The force of my Argument to prove that by the general appellation of the Lords who protested against the Kings delivering the Earls Petition to the Judges to have their opinion and judged the fact themselves not to be Treason but a Trespass could not be meant Bishops because the Record saith Sur quoy le dit Conte molt humblement remercia le Roy les ditz Seigneurs ses Piers de lour droiturel Iugement Whereupon the said Earl very humbly thanked the King and the said Lords his Peers for their right Iudgement Now the Bishops could not be Peers to the Earl who could not try him nor be tryed by him they being to be tryed only by Commoners and Commoners to try them if there be occasion of which more shall be said afterwards in its proper place I will here only observe one thing that our Asserter hath it instead of Humbly thanked Humbly reverenceth the King which he takes out of the Pamphlet that goes under the name of Mr. Seldens Baronage which I have ever looked upon as a spurious Book not made by Mr. Selden who would never have so translated Remercia and being full of faults and falsehoods yet this Book and Sir Robert Cotton's Abridgment which hath likewise faults enough are the chief Oracles that he consults and which do many times deceive him as the ancient Oracles did those who resorted to them Of as little signification is what he adds of the Lords of Parliament declaring the action of Henry Percy who was killed at the Battel of Shrewsbury to be Treason where he doth assure you the Bishops were present and you shall have his Oath for it I dare say if you will And how doth he prove it Why saith he the Arch-bishop of Canterbury was present at the former Iudgement for in express words he prayed the King that forasmuch as he and other Bishops were suspected to have been of confederacy with Henry Percy that the Earl of Northumberland would now publish the truth whereupon the Earl by the Kings command upon his Oath purged them all And then learnedly argues That here was no departure of the Arch-bishop and of the other Bishops concerned And I believe him for in truth here is a good proof that they were all present but to be purged themselves that they should not be thought Criminal not to act as Judges which is what our worthy Asserter doth assert and what he would have us think that he fully proves which he doth more solito that is Cujus contrarium c. Then my Gentleman for he is an active Gentleman makes an Alman leap to the very end of the last leaf of Sir Robert Cotton's Abridgement where he finds a marginal note of Mr. Prynn's to this purpose That the three Estates must concur to make a Parliament or Richard the Third's title would still be ambiguous and this he thrusts in here by head and shoulders I understand not how to the present purpose I think only to have the occasion to say that Mr. Prynn knew better of Records and what Plein Parlament meaneth than I and another whom he joyns with me and twenty more such as we are which I deny not though he should add to the number himself and forty more who were no wiser than he who all of them would not make our ballance two grains the heavier Then he comes to the Case of the Earl of Northumberland and the Lord Bardolph 7 H. 4. which he saith I say is like to that of the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury 2 H. 4. and that is true for in both those Cases those Lords after their deaths having had their lives taken from them in a
a Capital crime High Treason and a Capital proceeding upon it We see the Sentence was far from Capital and could not have been such as it was if the Crime had been laid in the Accusation to be High Treason Roger de Hoveden in his relation of this business makes no mention of Treason He saith That the King calling a great Council at Northampton Taedium magnum fecit Archiepiscopo did a thing which much vexed the Arch-bishop which was that he caused his Horses to be put into the Arch bishops Inn whereupon the Arch-bishop sent the King word that he would not come to the Council till his Inn was cleared of those Horses yet upon the second day of the meeting the Arch bishop came into the Chapel where the Council sate and there desired the Kings leave that he might go over into France to visit Pope Alexander who was then there which the King denied him and said he should first answer for the injustice he had done to John the Marshal in his Court This John having complained to the King that he had had a long suit in the Arch bishops Court for some Land he held of him and could have no Iustice and that thereupon Curiam Archiepiscopi Sacramento falst ficaverat secundum consuetudinem Regni He had according to the custome of the Kingdom upon Oath charged the Court with wrong doing which I take to be a protesting against the proceeding of that Court and the Judgement there given in the nature of a Writ of Error The Arch-bishop answered to this That John had no injustice done him and that he brought into the Court a certain strange Book and would swear upon that how for want of Iustice he left my Court which the Officers that kept my Court looked upon as an injury done to me because it is the Law of the Kingdome Quod qui Curiam alterius falsificare voluerit oportet eum jurare super sacrosancta Evangelia Whoever will so charge a Court with false dealing must take his Oath upon the Holy Evangelists Notwithstanding this the King swore he would have Iustice done upon him Et Barones Curiae And the Barons of the Court gave Iudgement on him to be at the Kings mercy Which Iudgement the Arch-bishop going about to reverse Iudicium illud falsificare is the expression He was perswaded by the Barons to submit himself to the Kings mercy for a Fine of five hundred pounds Here is nothing in all this that can possibly infer any thing like Treason And it is something observable what both these Authors say of the Judgement given Gervasius saith Curiali Iudicio Episcoporum consensu condemnatus est as if the part of the Bishops in this judgement were something differing from the Act of the Court and not comprized in it Hoveden saith Barones Curiae Regis judicaverunt eum as if the Bishops had no hand in it at all Radulphus de Diceto Decanus Londinensis I suppose Dean of Pauls who lived in those times mentions this business he saith That the Arch-bishop was questioned upon John the Marshals complaint and fined 500 l. and that he was questioned likewise for moneys received by him when he was Chancellour for some Bishopricks and Abbies of which he had received the profits during their vacancies and that not finding the Bishops to be his friends he appealed from their Judgement but then the Proceres the Nobles though he appealed from their Judgement likewise yet they In eum nec confessum nec convictum sententiam intorserunt They wrested a Iudgement against him though he confessed nothing nor was at all convicted You see here is not a word of Treason laid to his charge nor nothing Capital or any thing towards it Matthew Paris tells you the same story and almost in the very same words Now let any man judge whether all those Historians concurring or single Fitz-Stephen disagreeing deserves more credit And that which hath greatest weight with me is the Argument drawn ex natura rei the crime which all agree that the Arch-bishop was charged with was his not appearing upon the Kings Summons which without a great and a very false Multiplying-Glass cannot appear to be any thing like Treason So I must conclude that since the Charge against him had nothing of Capital in it the proceedings upon it was not as against a Capital Offender not brought to Tryal as a Prisoner but came in upon a bare Summons and tarried there and returned at full liberty the Judgement neither of loss of Life nor Limb but meerly Pecuniary and as some of the Authors say compounded with for five hundred pounds I must I say conclude that this whole Case is nothing to our purpose and neither the Law nor usage of Parliament did bar the Bishops from being personally present at such a Tryal And now I come to the point of Peerage which I have so fully handled in my former Letter as I think I need not say much in this Our Asserter brings three Arguments to prove them to be Peers The first is That it is the general stile of all Parliaments from the beginning to be Generale Concilium Cleri Populi even before the coming in of the Normans which no man denies The businesses of the Church as well as of the Civil State are there determined the Writ of Summons shews it which saith That the King intending to call a Parliament Pro quibusdam arduis negotiis Nos Statum defensionem Regni Angliae Ecclesiae Anglicanae concernentibus Bishops and Temporal Lords are summoned and heretofore several others were summoned as Bannerets and sometimes other persons of Quality who likewise were not Peers and yet were called to the Parliaments as pleased the King and the Judges are so summoned at this day Super dictis negotiis tractaturi consilium suum impensuri Where the Bishops act as Bishops and what by the Law of the Land and the practice and usage of Parliaments they ought to do that they do and may do the Temporal Lords in like manner and so likewise the Judges every one acts in his Sphere but this neither gives the Bishops power to judge in Capital Causes if otherwise it be prohibited them nor doth it make them Peers no more than it did formerly the Bannerets and others for their being summoned to sit and vote in the House of Peers We had the experience of this the last Parliament a Baron pretending to a much ancienter station among the Peers by proving that his Ancestor had been summoned by one of our former Kings to sit more than once in the House of Lords yet not making it appear that that favour had been still continued to him and it being made appear on the other side that several Families in this Kingdom would have the same pretence upon the like ground it was the opinion of the House that he had no Right to it and consequently that his Ancestor was never acknowledged to
Contradictio in adjecto an Imparity in a Parity Thirdly If the Husband be enobled the Wife must be so but the Wife of a Bishop is not enobled therefore the Person of her Husband is not for the Wife and the Husband are one Fourthly If a Bishop were a Peer he could in Parliament time be Tryed no where but in the House of Peers but Matter of Fact we find to be otherwise Therefore I think I may safely conclude that Bishops are no Peers But before I leave this point I must answer one thing which is said They say they hold by Baronage and therefore they are Barons as Fitz Stephen makes the Bishops in their altercation with the Temporal Lords about the pronunciation of the Sentence against the Arch-bishop saying Non sedemus hic Episcopi sed Barones Nos Barones vos Barones Pares hic sumus We sit not here in Parliament as Bishops but as Barons we are Barons and you are Barons Here we are Peers Fitz-Stephen's authority signifies nothing to me but this I know is said and believed by many therefore it must be answered to disabuse many who may think that holding by Barony creates a Baron which it doth no more than holding by Knights service makes a man a Knight or holding by Villanage makes a man a Villain which many do to this day even but here at East-Barnet and yet are good Free-men and no Villains for it works not upon the Person as Fleta saith l. 3. c. 13. the service they do is ratione tenementi non personae So the Bishops holding per Baronagium are thereby made subject to do the service of Barons and to obey the Kings Writ of Summons to attend the Parliament which makes them Lords of Parliament but affects not their person The Bishop of the Isle of Man is a Bishop as well as any of the rest first instituted by Pope Gregory the Fourth as Sir Edward Cooke saith but not holding by Baronage hath no place nor vote in Parliament We must know that this Tenure by Baronage was first created by William the First of all the Lands which held of the Crown in Capite consisting of so many Knights Fees these Lands were divided some to Lay-men some to Ecclesiastical persons And these were all bound to certain services though not all to the same and among others all to attend in Parliament whenever the King pleased to Summon them and so became Lords of Parliament This continued so till King Iohn's time when the number of the Temporal Lords growing so great and numerous that King made some alteration which certainly was setled and confirmed by Parliament but justly the time when this was done is not known the Record of it being lost The alteration was that none of the Temporal Lords should come to Parliament but such as received the Kings Writ a particular Summons for it These were called Barones Majores those who were not so summoned and so did not come to Parliament were stiled Barones Minores and were still Feodal Barons as before and held their Lands per Baronagium but were not Lords of Parliament Therefore it was not barely holding by Barony which made the person a Baron even in those times there was an act of the Kings requisite even in the Summoning of him to Parliament to make that Honour to affect and enoble the Person and so to fix it and make it hereditary in the Family which way of dignifying a Person continued till the eleventh year of Richard the Second when Iohn de Beauchamp Steward of the Houshold was first created by Patent Baron of Kiderminster since which time it hath still been practised to make them all Barons by Patent But the Bishops have still continued upon the first Institution of being by their Tenures obliged and accordingly Summoned to attend in Parliament which made them Lords of Parliament but not Peers of the Realm And now I come to his last point making them a Third Estate for which he cites the Bill presented to Richard the Third in his first Parliament where they are made so and to this I can oppose other passages in Parliament clean contrary as that 2 H. 4. where the Temporal Lords and they together are made to be one of the three Estates and other instances may be given of the same nature But let us a little consider how that Bill was framed 1 R. 3. it was first devised by certain Lords Spiritual and Temporal and other Nobles and notable Personages of the Commons a Party picked out and chosen for that purpose who presented it in the behalf and in the name of the Three Estates of this Realm of England and what was this to do to declare Edward the Fourth to have lived in adultery with Dame Elizabeth Gray whom he had married being precontracted to Dame Ellianor Bottiler daughter to the Earl of Shrewsbury and consequently all his Children Bastards Edward the Fifth a Bastard and Elizabeth his Sister a Bastard afterwards married to Henry the Seventh which entituled him and his Posterity to the Crown set an end to all the foregoing competitions and setled it as it is at this day this Bill as the Record saith was first presented and delivered to their Soveraign Lord the King that was to R. 3. whom they made so in the name and on the behalf of the said Three Estates out of Parliament and now by the said Three Estates assembled in Parliament ratified and confirmed And truly I must say this is not an authority to be bragged of for making the Bishops a Third Estate But then let us see if the Bishops sitting in the House of Lords have the necessary and essential qualifications of being a Third Estate in Parliament without which they cannot be a Third Estate there That the Clergy is one of the three Estates of the Realm and they the Principal and Chief of them no body denies And that they are Summoned to Parliament as a Third Estate of the Realm the dignified Clergy personally others of the Inferiour sort by their Procurators and Representatives is likewise confessed but not to have any part in making of Laws for the good Government of the Kingdom no not so much as in matters meerly concerning the Church but they may offer and propose and be consulted with but whatever they agree upon must come to the two Houses of Parliament and receive the stamp of their Authority before it can be presented to the King to become a Law and be binding to the People This is the work of the Convocation which meets at the same time with the Parliament and there is convened the Third Estate of the Realm Where the Bishops make the Upper House and there sit as Bishops according to their Spirituality But their Summons gives them another capacity which is to meet in the House of Lords and there Cum caeteris Praelatis Magnatibus Proceribus regni de arduis negotiis Statum regni Ecclesiae
from me and hath much more of reason and something though not much more of civility and fairness in the maintaining of it so as whether or no his reasons will convince me I know not but if they do I will certainly grant it for my Maxime is still Amicus Plato amicus Socrates sed magis amica Veritas The Writer of this Treatise intituled The Grand Question concerning the Bishops right to vote in Parliament in Cases Capital Stated and Argued doth state the Question right that is Whether the Bishops may be present and vote Judicially in Capital Cases which come to be judged in Parliament either in giving the Judgement it self or in resolving and determining any circumstance preparatory and leading to that Judgement Then he sets down some things granted on both sides as 1. That Bishops do sit in Parliament by vertue of their Baronies and are bound to serve the King there From this he infers they have a Right of Judicature which is not denied but the question is as he saith himself what this Judicature is 2 That they sit by the same kind of Writ that other Barons do Upon which he would infer that they are impowered and required to confer and treat of all the weighty affairs that shall be brought before them the King having not limited nor restrained the one more than the other But it follows not because all are called together by the same authority that therefore the same duty is incumbent upon all if there be a higher power that directs what every ones duty is to do when they are come together Now the King acts in a higher Sphere by the Law of the Land and the law and practice of Parliament which prohibits Bishops from meddling with judging of Capital Causes in Parliament nor did they ever do it but in one extravagant proceeding in 28 H. 6. where nothing was regular nor Parliamentary from the beginning to the end which I look upon as altogether insignificant to alter what is so setled by Law and constant Custome therefore the Kings Writ of Summons cannot dispence with that to make that lawful which in it self is unlawful as I have sufficiently proved it And I will now go a little further in it than I did before for hitherto I have only insisted upon the Law of Parliaments as a thing setled in Parliament by the Constituons of Clarendon in Henry the Second's time and the Protestation of the Bishops enrolled in Parliament by the King Lords and Commons 11 R. 2. but now I will deliver my opinion which I submit to better Judgements that they lye still under a Restraint by the Canon Law which by the Statute 25 H. 8. c. 12. which was repealed 1 and 2 Phil. and Mar. but revived 1 Eliz. is still of force where it is not repugnant to the Laws of the Realm which we are sure this branch of it restraining Bishops from judging Capitally is not so far from it that it is confirmed and strengthened by the Law of the Land 3. The third Particular in which he saith all agree is That they have their Votes in Bills of Attainder acting in their Legislative capacity which is as much a Case of Blood as the other and perhaps as much forbidden by the Canon But I desire this worthy Person to consider that the Practice of Parliament is the Law of Parliament and is the commanding Law for regulating the Proceedings of Parliament and that hath over-ruled this Point that in the making of a Law every Free-man of the Kingdom doth give his consent either explicitly if he be a Member of either House or implicitly by his Representative for every Free-man of the Kingdome is there present or represented And it is the Fundamental Constitution of our English Freedome that no man can be bound by any Law but what himself hath consented to now a Bill of Attainder is as much a Law as any Statute Law of the Kingdom Therefore Bishops have acted in a Legislative capacity to judge and condemn Capitally as several Precedents we have of it in Henry the Eight's time but not in a judicial capacity And to say the Canon Law prohibits one as much as the other the Statute of 25 H. 8. clears that point which takes away the force of the Canon in the one not to abridge Members of Parliament from voting in the Legislative way and strengthens it in the other forbidding Bishops to vote Judicially in Cases of Blood Yet if you will have me deliver you freely my opinion in it I think it is an abuse crept in since Henry the Eight's time for before none were judged by Bill but such as had been slain in open War or Tryed Condemned and Executed by Commission and then the proceedings brought into Parliament and there approved of and the Attainder confirmed but under Henry the Eighth several persons were condemned by Bill and the Earl of Strafford lately in our memories which seems now to be authorized by the Practice of Parliament Sir Edw. Cooke tells a story which he had from Sir Thomas Gaudy one of the Judges of the Kings-bench how the King had commanded Cromwel and the Earl of Essex to attend the Justices and know of them if a man who was forth coming should be condemned by Act of Parliament without being heard who after some fencing answered if it were so it could not be afterwards called into question and Cromwel himself was not long after so served but this is by the way Multa quae fieri non debent facta valent I have been a little the longer in these particulars because it will much smooth our way in the following discourse And this worthy Gentleman must give me leave to say That he needed not have put himself to all that trouble of his first Chapter in telling us of the mighty power the Clergy had in the Primitive times in the ordering of Secular affairs which certainly was more by way of Counsel than any thing of Authority by way of Judgement and in a Judicial way And he will avow to me I doubt not that the ministery of the word was a full employment for the Apostles and so for Bishops who call themselves their Successors as well as serving of Tables and other ministerial duties was a full employment for those whom he calls the Treasurers of the Church and therefore they said it for themselves and left it as a Rule for their Successors even to Bishops and all other dispencers of the Word and Sacraments that it was not reason they should leave the Word of God and serve Tables Which it seems was a Non est Consonum by the Law of God just as by the Common Law of the Kingdom a Writ was provided declaring it to be likewise a Non est Consonum and to be Contra morem Consuetudinem Regni that Clergy-men should be employed in Secular affairs This indeed I hinted at then as I gave also some little touch at
Proctor at the beginning of the Tryal as is manifest and agreed by all therefore the Crime charged upon the Clergy could not but be before any Proceedings against any of the Criminals except that preliminary Vote which made them guilty of Blood in that Chronicler's Sense In Conclusion there was no Act to revoke these Pardons but the King it seems caused Execution to be done upon his own Authority and those general Votes in which the Clergy were present so that after all this Attempt the Authority of this MSS is against him But after all this we have one help left saith the Author of the Letter for if this Action in this Parliament would do him any Service the whole Parliament was repealed in I Henry the Fourth and so no Authority to be laid upon it I but replyes the Grand Questionist the Author of the Letter admits that the three Henries Fourth Fifth and Sixth were Usurpers and therefore the Repeal of that Parliament void I acknowledge the Author of the Letter saith so but he is so to be understood as the Law is now taken not as it was then for we see Henry the Fourh in Parliament claimed the Crown as his Right as being Heir to Iohn of Gaunt fourth Son to Edward the Third whereas the Title of Mortimer who was by another Parliament declared next Heir arose by his Marriage with Philippa Daughter and Heir to Lionel Duke of Clarence who was the third Son to Edward the Third but it was never before determined that the Daughter of a third Brother should be preferred in Succession to the Crown to the Son of a Fourth We see Maud the Empress Daughter to Henry the First could not be received Queen though she attempted and sought for it neither ever had we a Queen since the Conquest till that time Nor can I divine how long it might have remained a Question had not that Controversie been determined by the happy Union of both Titles in Henry the Seventh who married the Daughter and Heir of the house of York The next Question will be how far Laws made by an Usurper generally received and accepted by the People upon the resignation of the immediate precedent Possessor shall be esteemed valid I fear if we make such Laws void we must find some new way to make many of ours good till Henry the Second Was not Robert eldest Son to William the First alive till toward the latter end of the Reign of Henry the First who about the eighth Year after he was King deprived him of his Eyes after which he lived a Prisoner twenty six Years William Rufus had no better Title than the Acceptance of the People and his Composition with his Brother Robert who resigned his Title for 3000 Marks per an Henry the First succeeds by Title no better till Robert's miserable Death which happened in the thirty fifth year of his Reign and about a year before his death After him Stephen steps into the Throne help'd by two powerful Friends the Bishop of Winchester the Popes Legate his own Brother and the Bishop of Salisbury his great Friend and this in the Life of Maud Daughter to Henry the First and his own Brother Theobald whose Title though bad was better than Stephen's they being both Grand-children to William the first by Adela his Daughter marryed to the Earl of Blois But for this great favour and their breach of Oath to Maud he promised great Immunities to the Church and amongst other that Clergy-men should not be bound to answer to secular Courts But by our Author's Logick this Concession was void and the Clergy had no reason to complain because the old Law was revived at Clarendon At last to sodder all a Composition was made that Henry Maud's Son should have the Crown after Stephen's death which was performed by her Consent Maud being then alive who having strugled for the Crown as much as she could was at last contented with this Composition which was the only legal Title King Stephen had and no more voluntary in Maud than was that of Richard the Second But at length Maud dyes and Henry the Second and his Son Richard the first enjoyed the Crown in their just Rights After their Death Iohn comes upon the Stage in the Life of Arthur his elder Brother's Son so that here we have another Usurper after whose death and the death of Arthur Henry the Third had a good Title whose Descendents enjoy it to our Time for the Quarrels between York and Lancaster were not about the Line but the Persons insomuch that till Henry the Third the best Title to the Crown was the Acceptance of the People and particular Compositions with those who had the greater Right Come we nearer home to the time of Henry the Seventh who after the Death of his Mother and his Marriage with the Daughter and Heir of Edward the Fourth was rightful King His Eldest Daughter was marryed into Scotland from whom our present King enjoys his Crowns upon an unquestionable Title We will now come to his Son Henry the Eighth he had two Daughters Mary and Elizabeth the first by Katharine his elder Brother Arthur his Relict the second by Anne of Bullein born in the Life of his first repudiated Wife Queen Katharine Mary was by Act of Parliament declared a Bastard as born within unlawful Espousals Elizabeth after the Disgrace of her Mother was served in the same kind yet we see both of them successively enjoyed the Crown by virtue of another Act which entailed it upon them with the approbation of the people whereas otherwise the true Right would have been in Mary Queen of Scots our present Sovereigns great Grand-mother I might pursue this Theme through France in the case of Hugh Capet through Spain in the family of the D. of Medina Celi and at present in Portugal but I will not go out of our own Kingdoms and have said enough to make it manifest that Laws may be made or repealed by such Kings as are in Possession by Composition or Resignation with the acceptance of the People else our unwary Author hath laid a foundation to overthrow or weaken not only most of our Laws but most of the Laws of Europe Over and above all this if the Laws of Henry the fourth fifth and sixth were not good why did not the Nobility made in that time get new Charters of Creation in Edward the fourth's time Nay what became of the whole Hierarchy Many of the Prelates and inferiour Clergy must of necessity be consecrated by those that were no Bishops and consequently their Consecration and Orders by them conferred were void and all our subsequent Clergy who derive their Authority from those who had no legal Right extinguished a thing in my Judgment worth consideration to such as would avoid Laws made by actual Kings though their just Title might be disputed His mentioning Oliver rather deserves pity for his Inadvertence than any other Answer
Name of Peers or Grands and therefore may be comprehended under those Names when the Name Prelate is not expressed If this Author can be driven out of these holds I shall believe he may fairly quit the Field without any Dishonour I shall begin with the Tryal of Roger Mortimer in 4 Edward the Third but we must fetch our Judgment from what was done in 28 Edward the Third where upon the desire of Roger Wigmore Cousin and Heir of Mortimer that Attainder was examined and all the Proceedings repeated and upon the whole matter the King charges the Earls and Barons the Peers of the Realm that for as much as these things principally concerned him and them and all the People of his Realm that they would do such Right and loyal Judgment as was fit for such a Person to have The Words upon the Record are Le Roy vous charge Counts Barons les Pieres de son Royaum que de si come cestes choses touchent principalment a luy a vous a tout le peuple de son Royaum que vous facies au dit Roger droit loial Iugement come attient a un tel d'avoir Which said Counts Barons and Peers of the Realm returned and gave their Judgment c. The Words are the King charges you Counts Barons the Peers of his Realm not as our Author renders the Words Earls Barons and Peers of the Realm as if Peers were there distinct from Earls and Barons when the Words import no more than who were those Peers to wit the Earls and Barons therefore the Author of the Letter had reason to say the Bishops were not there who were left out in the reference made by the King whose Words are To the Earls and Barons the Peers of the Realm Now if the Question be asked who are those must not the Answer be the Earls and Barons So that the Bishops must be comprehended under the Names of Earls and Barons or not at all From whence it will follow that this Negative is something more than a bare Negative we may at least call it Negativum praegnans a Negative big with an Affirmative for it is first told who were those Peers Secondly to whom those Judgments belonged Chiefly to the King and them and consequentially to all the Kingdom and whatever the Practise is now I think it not hard to prove that anciently no Judgment or very rarely any by the Lords in Parliament was complete in criminal Cases or Execution done till it was ratified by the King yet that I may render all possible Right to the Bishops the matter will bear I would easily grant that if they were at all summoned to that Parliament they might be present whilst the Proceedings against Mortimer were in reading but went away when the Lords proceeded to the consideration of what Judgment was to be given against him which was enough to give them knowledge of the matter in Agitation and as much as was requisite to make them Parties according to the Opinion of my Lord Coke before cited I said if they were summoned because in many ancient Parliaments I cannot find they had any Summons at all as in 49 Hen. 3. 23 Ed. 1. 28 Ed. 1. 1 Ed. 2. 16 Ed. 2. and 6 Ed. 3. but after that were never omitted so that 't is probable enough that they were not summoned in 4 Ed. 3. who were left out in the sixth year of the same King But in this I will not be positive because it may be the Rolls have been lost Pag. 94. He takes a more exact view of the Case of Mortimer in 4 Ed. 3. and presseth strongly to have it allowed that the Judgment against Mortimer and some others was by Act of Parliament because the Reversal of it in 28 E. 3. was by Act and therefore saith he we may justly suppose that the Judgment against them was ratified in Parliament beside some Historians say he was condemned Iudicio Parliamenti and his own Petition is that the Statute and Judgment may be reversed and annulled and from this infers that if the first Judgment was by Act of Parliament and the Bishops not there then they might not be present in their Legislative Right and if they were there then this Negative way of Argument proves nothing that is they de facto were not there therefore de jure they ought not to be there This I confess is subtle but not solid 't is all grounded upon no greater Authority than Supposition First the Reversal was by Act therefore the Judgment was so too this doth not follow for many Judgments in Parliament may be reversed by Act of Parliament which were not so pronounced His second Conjecture hath as little weight because some Historians say it was by Judgment in Parliament therefore by Act because it is not a Parliament without the King and Lords and Commons for except this be his Argument it is of no force at all for it might be and doubtless was by Judgment in the Lords House which in ordinary Speech was called Judgment in Parliament nay how often doth himself infer the Presence of the Bishops from the Words Full Parliament when the Commons were not concerned and indeed meant no more than a full House Lastly Wigmore desiring the Statute and Judgment might be reversed proves as little for every thing ordained that is Statutum is not presently an Act of Parliament though every Act be Statutum Beside I do not find Statutum in the Record but only the Word Judgment used so that for ought appears from our Author the Bishops might well be absent at the first Judgment against Mortimer and not comprehended under the Name of Peers They have less reason to think themselves included under the Name of Barons if we well consider the words of Petrus Blesensis who living in the time of Hen. 2. well knew both what Honour they had and what they pretended then to whose Words are Quidam Episcopi Regum munificientias Eleemosynas antiquorum abusivè Baronias regalia vocant in occasione turpissimae Servitutis seipsos Barones vocant Vereor ne de illis quereretur Dominus dicat Ipsi regnaverunt non ex me Principes extiterunt ego non cognovi scias te accepisse Pastoris officium non Baronis c. Vacuum a secularibus oportet esse animum Modis omnibus cura ne secularibus te involvas Pet. Blesens edit ult p. 551 552. By this learned Arch-Deacon in his Tractate de Institutione Episc. you may be satisfied that he did not believe that Bishopricks which arose from the Bounty of the King or Alms of the People were ever erected into Baronies by the King but abusively or wrongfully so called by themselves who being charged with the Service by the King had a mind to attribute to themselves the Name since they did the Service For he saith they did abusively or wrongfully call their Possessions Baronies
are convicted for non-appearance He must have a new way of reasoning who considering that in 4 E. 3. the Earls and Barons are declared those Peers to whom such Judgments belong that in 5 E. 3. the Prelates declared that in a Case where Blood might be it belonged not to them to be present that in 7 R. 2. the Temporal Lords were only concerned in a Case where the Accusation was Treason with many other Cases that in 1 Hen. 4. the Lords are declared Judges in such matters that in 2 Hen. 4. in a like Trial or Judgment the Temporal Lords are all named who were the Judges that now in 7 Hen. 4. the Temporal Lords are again declared Judges and after all this that the Prelates should be deemed proper Judges in Cases of Blood upon bare Surmises and no direct Proof seems to me to savour of a Man wedded to an Opinion which he resolves to maintain when at last tho Precedents confirm what the Law is 't is that must determine the Controversy This I say in Relation to what Mr. Hunt objects This Precedent may in part serve to give answer to those Arguments drawn from the Identity of Names to the Identity of Right The Bishops saith the Grand Questionist are sometimes comprehended under the name of Grands Seigneurs and Peers therefore their Right is equal to all others who enjoy those Names How he attempts to make this good we shall see anon But first let him consider how weak a way of arguing this is we know nothing is more equivocal than Names Many are called Lords who had once that Name as Embassadors Chief Justice c. or such whose Fathers are Dukes so Earls Eldest Sons yet are indeed but Commoners so Baronagium comprehends all the whole Parliament Barons there are of the Cinque-Ports of the Exchequer and of some chief Towns as I have noted before from Mr. Selden so we are not to judg the Right from the Appellation but govern the Appellation by the Right The first Precedent he urges is pag. 96. where in 4 E. 3. an Act passed for Trial by Peers Cotton Numb 6. 'T is agreed unto by the King and all the Grands in full Parliament that tho the Lords had tried some who were not their Peers upon Accusation by the King in a summary way against Law it should be so no more If the Bishops were here comprehended under the Name of Grands so were the Commons too if it should be an Act of Parliament will he hence infer that the Commons have an equal Right with the Lords because they all are called Grands Who were esteemed Grands or Magnates see Matth. Paris in Anno Dom. 1100. Inhibitio ne qui Magnates viz. Comes Baro Miles seu aliqua alia notabilis Persona c. Here you see under Magnates are taken Earls Barons Knights or any other Person of Rank So Milites Comitatuum and Barones quinque portuum are called Magnates inter com brevia de term sctae trin Sct. Mich. An. 34. E. 1. penes rentem Dom. thesaurarij in Scaccario he that desires more let him consult Mr. Petyt's Learned Discourse of the ancient Rights of the Commons pag. 93 94. and in sundry other places I think therefore I may safely conclude this Point That where Grands are named alone there not only the Bishops but the Earls Barons Judges and Commons might be comprehended but where the Grands are mentioned after the Earls and Barons there the Bishops who ought first to be named shall never be taken in secondarily and by Implication Neither is it any thing to our Question whether it were for their Honour to be absent in some Cases as he intimates pag. 100. in the Case of Roger Mortimer but what the matter of Fact was Pag. 112. He would comprehend the Prelates among the Peers because in 4 E. 3. N. 3. The words are All the Peers Counts and Barons assembled in Parliament upon strict Examination do assent and agree that John Mautrevers is guilty of the Death of Edmund Earl of Kent Here he would infer that the Prelates were present at the Examination of that Capital Crime under the name of Peers because at that time there were no Dukes nor others of Superiour Degree to Earls but he doth not consider that the word Peers in this place doth only denote who those Peers then mentioned were Peers viz. Earls and Barons not Bishops as before Magnates viz. Comes Baro Miles c. As when we say a Noble-Man is to be tried by his Peers we understand only those that are truly so and not others that sometimes may be called so this is much cleared by the Record 2 Hen. 4. N. 30. The Lords Temporal by the Assent of the King adjudged Thomas Holland late Earl of Kent Iohn Holland late Earl of Huntington and others Traitors this Judgment was after the Parties were dead and but the second Successor after Edward the third Why did not now the Prelates come in and claim their Right Certainly they would have done it but that they knew the Law and Practice was against them what else is material in this Chapter hath been taken notice of by the Author of the Letter and others so that it needs no further Examination and I may safely conclude that where the Prelates are not named they are not understood Now that in this case the Bishops could not be meant by the word Peers is very plain from the Record it self For the fore-named Iohn Mautrevers being not in hold the said Peers do pray our Lord the King that search should be made for him throughout the Realm and a Reward promised Now if the Bishops were meant by the word Peers alone for Earls and Barons are named witness the Peers Earls and Barons then by Parity of Reason the said Peers should be meant only of the Bishops as if they alone had made the desire for the Apprehension of the said Matrevers and the Earls and Barons had been unconcerned which is absurd See 4 E. 3. Mem. 3. N. 3. Seld. Baron p. 13. Our Author concludes his third Chapter with the Case of Henry Hotspur the eldest Son of the Earl of Northumberland who for having levied War with others against the King was declared a Traitor being before slain in Battel by the King and Lords in full Parliament this was upon Friday the 18th of February upon the same Friday upon that Case and the Petition of the Earl Father to Henry and Examination of his Cause by the Lords as Peers of Parliament to whom such Judgment belonged for the King would then have referred the whole matter to the Judges he was declared innocent of Treason or Felony but only finable for Trespass at the King's Pleasure for which the said Earl gave Thanks to the King and Lords for their rightful Judgment and also at the same time purged upon his Oath the Arch-bishop of Canterbury the Duke of York
and other Lords who were suspected to be of the Confederacy with the said Henry Hotspur alias Percy This was the work of Friday the 18th of February on Saturday the 19th the Commons give Thanks to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal for the rightful Judgment they had given as Peers of Parliament 5 H. 4 from N. 12 to N. 17. This is the whole Case as to Father and Son Now whether the Bishops were present at all these Proceedings and how far is the Question The Grand Questionist contends they were present at the Proceedings both against the Father and the Son at that against the Son from the word full Parliament which he seemeth to infer must include the Bishops and at that against the Father from the Thanks made by the House of Commons the next day after the acquittal of the Earl First as to the Son It appears plainly by the Historians of those times that he was slain in the fourth Year of the King in the life-time of the Father who soon after broke out into Rebellion so that at the time of Henry's Death he was only a Commoner and consequently not to receive any Judgment in the Lord's House alone nor could he be made a Traitor otherwise than by Act of Parliament so that the word full Parliament must either refer to some particular Act of Parliament made in his Case in which the Bishops might be present and the Commons concur or else the Proceedings were wholly irregular and contrary to their own Agreement in 4 E. 3. Now from an illegal Act no Right can be concluded As to the Earl himself we find him suddenly after in open Rebellion defeated and escaped into Scotland with Lord Bardolf and convicted of Treason by the Temporal Lords for not appearing upon Summons and all this within two Years after Now can it be reasonable to think that the Bishops were present at the acquittal of this very Lord in 5 H. 4. who were not present in 7 H. 4. which was but two Years after nor were present at a like Case in 2 H. 4. N. 30. against the Earl of Holland and others which was not three Years before Neither can any weight be laid upon the Thanks of the House of Commons which was only matter of Complement and performed at another time when the House was assembled upon other matters but seeing them there might extend their Thanks to them also who though they could not contribute did nothing to hinder the Clemency of the Temporal Lords towards the Earl besides at the same time it was accorded by the King and Lords upon the Desire of the Commons that certain ill Officers about the King should be discharged in which the Bishops might be Instrumental and very well deserve the Thanks of the Commons at which Desire of the Commons they might assist and be absent at the rest The Precedent of Iohn Lord Talbot will not avail him he exhibited an Accusation against the Earl of Ormond for certain Treasons by him committed this Accusation was in the Marshalsea before the Earl of Bedford Constable of England The King to put an end to this matter doth by Act of Parliament make an Abolition and Discharge of the said Accusation and Discovery The words are That the King by the Advice and Assent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and the Commons made an Abolition of the said Detection Whoever denied the Bishops Consent in a Legislative way and had it been otherwise the Commons could not have been I think regularly concerned 2. H. 6. N. 9. The Precedent of the Duke of Suffolk in 28 H. 6. I thought to have passed over being a Case as irregular in the Proceedings as unjust in those that put to death that unfortunate Man Much Art was used by the Court to have preserved him from the Envy of the People A Parliament assembled at Westminster after dismissed into London then prorogued to Leicester that dissolved and another called at Westminister in which the Duke appeared which exasperated the Commons against him But upon the whole Record it appears that no Issue was joyned for after Articles exhibited by the Commons and his denial of them March 14 at the least of the eight first and giving some Answers to others on the 17 th he was sent for again and the Chancellour acquainted him that he had not put himself upon his Peerage and now asketh him how he would be tried who instead of pleading put himself upon the King's Order who caused him to be banished for five Years By all this it appears here were no judicial Proceedings which could not be before Issue joyned so that although the Bishops were present at the reading of the Articles yet this can be no Precedent to entitle them to be present in judicial Proceedings in Capital Causes for here were none at all in this Case and till Issue joyned the Bishops are not bound to withdraw Neither ought it to seem strange that the Viscount Beaumont should make Protestation in the name of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal against these Proceedings which they finding to be extra-judicial in very many Particulars they did not know I mean the Bishops as well as some of the Lords what Construction might be made to their Prejudice for sometimes they met in one place sometimes in another and not always in the Parliament-House to consult of this Business Besides many things pass sub silentio which being questioned would not have been allowed these Observations being added to what hath been said by the Author of the Letter seems to me a full Answer to this Precedent in which the Protestatio is only Protestatio facti not Iuris I have thus put an end to the Examination of this third Chapter and fully considered all his Arguments and Precedents and come now to a view of his fourth and last Chapter CHAP. IV. IN this Chapter our Author hath employed all his Art to assert the Peerage of the Bishops and that they make a third Estate in Parliament in what sense they are called Peers as also that the entire Clergy met in Convocation make a third Estate I have largely shewed before and shall not now repeat I admit they are sometimes called Lords Spiritual tho not so before Rich. II. but Prelates or the like Peers of the Realm Peers in Parliament If by that Appellation you would make them Equals to the Nobilitas Major I think they never were yet have they many Privtledges in respect of their Seats and Episcopal Dignity in the Lords House and by reason of their most honourable Profession have all of them Precedence to Barons I admit also that the Clergy is really a third Estate and that the Bishops in respect that they are the Head of the Clergy may sometimes in ordinary Discourse be called so but are in truth never so exclusively to the rest of the Clergy they all making but one Body or third Estate fully represented
Kingdom 9 H. 3. 39 Years before the 49th of that King per Common assent tout de le Reaum and this in another Record is said to be Per le Roy Piers Commune de la terre And the Statute of Westminster the first eleven Years after 49. H. 3. was ordained per Passentments de Archievesques Evesques Abbies Priors Countees Barons Et tout la Comminalty de la terre illonques Summonees Now what Man of common Sense can believe that the Clerus Populus cotius Regni after the Comites Barones 5 Io. the Commune de la terre after the Peers 9. Hon. 3. and tout le Eomminalty de la terre after Countees and Barons 3 Edw. 1. were no more than the Prelates Earls and Barons indeed there being no Et between Baronum and Cleri 5 Io. were it not for other Records explanatory of the like there might be some Colour for Mr. Hunt's supposal that Eleri Populi were only comprehensive of the Orders foregoing and might be in the same sense with Communitas Archiepiscoporum Episcoporum Comitum Baronum But for the penning of Records both Mr. Hunt and Mr. W. know better than to think the Clerks in those times stuffed them with Tautologies Mr. Hunt's way of expressing the same Notion I shall soon consider more particularly But admit that my Interpretation of Records is generally erroneous yet 't is manifest that the Record which is cited and insisted on to warrant the contrary shews that there were other Persons at the General Council of the Kingdom besides Prelates Earls and Barons and that these were such as are now called Commons The Record was the form of Peace agreed on in the 48th Year of Hen. 3. it says Haec est forma Pacis a Domino Rege Domino Edwardo filio suo Praelatis Proceribus omnibus Communitate Regni Angliae communitèr concorditèr approbata c. Amongst other things 't was agreed ad Reformationem Statûs Regni Angliae that there should be chose in that Parliament three Men who should have Power from the King toname nine that should be the King 's standing Counsel and if any of the three displeased the Community of the Prelates and Barons or were by them thought unfitting for their Office Si videatur Communitati Praelatorum Baronum one or more should be placed in his or their Room per Concilium Communitatis Praelatorum Baronum and the Record concludes Haec autem ordinatio facta fuit apud London de Consensu Voluntate Praecepto Domini Regis necnon Praelatorum Baronum acetiam Communitatis tunc ibi presentium Upon this 't is observable 1. That et Communitas Regni in the beginning of the Record next after the Praelates and all the Peers must necessarily be the Commons of England nor can Et possibly be taken otherwise than as introductive of other Persons besides the Prelates and all the Peers before expresly mentioned for that the Record concludes as it were with an Intention of preventing all manner of expositive Cavils for having declared that the Ordinance then made was by the Consent Will and Authority of the King necnon and as well of the Prelates and Barons it adds Ac etiam Communitatis tune ibt presentium which must necessarily be and also of the Commons then and there present as well as the Prelates and Barons presentium being taking as relating to all that went before or and also of the Community of them that were then and there present that is all that were present were Parties to the Ordinance if the first then the Commens also were there by name if the second tho Communuas be not taken as an Appellative for the Commons of England yet that they were then and there present is as evident from the Record since it shews that others were present besides the King Prelates and all the Peers that those others were Parties to the Ordinance then made and as they could not possibly be of an higher Rank than what were before exprest but much less the same being so manifestly distinguished with an and also from what went before they must needs have been inferiour that is Commoners unless there was another Rank of Men that were neither Lords nor Commons but between both wherefore 't is a demonstration that there was then present and acting in a Legislative Capacity a Body of Commons over and above or distinct from the Prelates and all the Peers or Barons above mentioned 2. In this Parliament 48 H. 3. there was a particular matter referred by the King and that in a full Parliament of Prelates Peers or Barons and also the Commons to the Disposition and Management of the Prelates and Barons only and surely 't was no great thing for them to be empowered to remove or put in Electors of the King 's standing Counsel which was all that was referred to them without consulting the Commons upon every occasion But I cannot discern the least Consequence that because the word Communitas doth many times extend to the Prelates and Barons which as Mr. W. rightly observes it doth that therefore it must be limited to them and extend no further whatever words come between And I would thank him that should satisfy my reason how it is possible it should be confin'd to them when there comes and or and also to extend it farther If Mr. Hunt had observed how distinctly all the Orders of Parliament are mentioned in this Record viz. Praelati Proceres omnes Communitas Regni Angliae and again Praelati Barones ac etiam Communitas and had further observed how full and clear the Evidence is that all of them together referred or consented to the King 's referring the matter before taken notice of to the Earls and Barons only or to the Community or Generality of them from whom another Community the Communitas Regni Angliae then and there present was sufficiently distinguish'd in other parts of the Record and that that Affair was to be managed per Consilium Praelatorum Baronum he would never have insisted upon this as demonstration that Communitas Regni Angliae after Praelati Proceres omnes nay tho with an ac etiam has no other Sense than Commune Concilium Regni and was as a comprehensive Term of those that made it or was used exegetically as Mr. W. has it If it had been Praelati Proceres Commune Concilium Regni or Communitas Regni there because there is no discretive and or and also the latter might be comprehensive of the former But whatsoever may be said of the careless penning of Records or Histories anciently yet when there are numbers of Records or Histories expressing the Parties present at general Assemblies of the Kingdom some of the like penning with the aforesaid form of Peace 48 H. 3. some more express and particular if possible shall all the Clerks
of Parliament and learned Monks or other old Authors be taxed with heedless Impertinencies nay even want of understanding what they wrote Eadmerus who was a very corrrect Writer and lived in the time of which he wrote tells us that at one General Convention in the Reign of Hen. I. there were tota Nobilitas cum Populi numerositate at another tho it was held only for Ecclesistical Affairs there were Nobilitas Populusque minor The Election of King Stephen as a grave Prior of those Times tells us was a primoribus Regni cum favore Cleri Populi Clericorum Laicorum universitate In that King's Reign there was adunatum Concilium Cleri Populi a General Council of the Clergy and Laity together which now one would say were a Parliament and Convocation united the Members of this Council follow Episcoporum atque Abbatum Monachorum Clericorum Plâ—…bisque iufinita multitudo the Authority for this is a Legier Book of the Abby of Ely wrote as it should seem in the time of Hen. I. These kind of Books were generally kept with great Exactness and were in the nature of Records From the like Authority we have it that Archiepiscopi Episcopi Comites atque alij omnes were consenting to the Election of King Iohn But to mention a few undoubted Records to this purpose In the 15 th of King Iohn there were Precepts to all the Sheriffs of England to summon in every County Milites who were to come with Arms Barones without Arms and four Knights for every Shire quatuor discretos Milites de comitatu to a General Council at Oxford In the 38 th of Hen. III. besides the Tenants in Chief two legales discreti Milites were required to come for every County vice omutom singulorum to be chosen by the Milites alij de Comitatu And several Records before the 49th of H. 3. describing the Members of Parliaments mention besides the Clergy Comites Barones Milites liberi Homines some libere Tenentes others omnes de Regno Now can there be the least colour to believe that all these were no more than the Prelates and great Barons or only the greater and less Nobility holding in Chief whatever Dr. Brady or others may obtrude upon the World That the Commune Concilium Baronum may sometimes be used in the same sense with Commune Consilium Regni affords no help to Mr. Hunt because where the expressions are too lax and general Barones shall be taken in it's utmost extent and consequently shall comprehend ordinary Free-holders who were Nobiles Barones minores long before the 49th of Hen. 3. But the Question is Whether when Records or Histories make a Distinction between Barones and others coming after the Distinction can be thought to be without any manner of Difference and so vain and idle as that the Porulus minor or Populi numerositas after Nobilitas is a Term comprehensive of the Nobility before mentioned or when there were Primores Regni cum Clero Populo the chief of the Kingdom with all the Clergy and People the word People was but comprehensive of the Primores so that the Primores were there together with themselves But surely I need not run over all these Instances and many more produceable to convince even Dr. Brady Mr. Hunt and Mr. W. of the absurdity of interpreting Records after their manner But Mr. W. thinks to help out his Record by an Historian and cites the Additaments to Matthew Paris mentioning the Letter wrote to the Pope in the Case of Adomar de Valens which begins thus Communitas Procerum Magnatum aliorumque Regni Angliae and was subscribed by some Earls and great Men and Peter de Monteforti vice totius Communitatis this Mr. W. says was in the name of the whole Baronage not the House of Commons or Commonalty of England there being mention of the universitas Baronagij but not universitas Regni Popularis I take it to be manifest that all the Question which can arise upon these words is not as Mr. W. puts it whether Symon Montfort subscribed in the names of the Barons only or of the Commons only But whether some of the great Barons having set their hands themselves Montfort being the last Man that subscribed did not do it in the name of the rest of the Great Barons not subscribing and of the Commons too as part of the Baronage or Communitas of Earls Barons and others And I think nothing is more clear then that the Commons were part of the Community here intended Matthew Paris tells us that 't was ex parte Regni totius Angliae universitate and this he says was scriptum a Farnagio and that the Commons were part of the Kingdom at Parliaments and went under the Denomination of the Faronage at that very time is evident beyond Contradiction from Record for whereas the Title of the Writ expressing some Matters agreed upon between the King and his People in that very Parliament is pro Rege Faronagio Anâ—…liae the body of the Writ runs Rex omnibus c. cum pro negotiis nostris arduis Regnum nostrum tangentibus proceres Fideles Regni nostri ad nos London in Quindena Pasche prox praeterit faceremus convocari c. And another Record explains and reduces to a certainty the Proceres Fideles and the Faronage and calls them Hanshomes the high Men the Prelates and great Barons Prodes homes the Magnates and Grands of the Counties and the Commune de Reaum the Commons of the Cities and Boroughs and with this his own Instance out of Matthew Paris exactly agrees for there were the Comites and Proceres the great Barons the Magnates or Grands of the Counties and alij who must needs be the Commons of the Cities and Boroughs as they were distinguished from the Grands of the Counties even as late as the 27th E. 3. This may serve for a full and clear Answer to Dr. Brady's Exposition of the forementioned Letter whom both Mr. Hunt and Mr. W. may thank for misleading them in this Point and this sufficiently shews the Vanity and Falshood of the Doctor 's Assertion that the Commons as at this day known are not to be found amongst the Community of England in old Historians except he will place Matthew Paris amongst the Moderns This I think may suffice in answer to any thing wherein Mr. W. his Authority may be used against me I cannot be so short in my Observations upon Mr. Hunt because he aims many Blows at me in the dark and may be thought in many places to have wounded my Arguments or the Reputation of my Endeavours which he represents as impertinent or like a Contest de lanâ Caprinâ In opposition to my Notion of the Curia Regis he produces another
casu fieri consuevit Teste Rege apud Lancetost 18. die Octobris 34. FINIS ERRATA PAge 113. line 3. in Marg. read true way P. 117. l. 18. r. Bannerets Ib. l. 21. r. Banneret P. 122. l. 2. r. St. P. 144. l. 8. r. ingenuously So P. 145. l. 31. P. 160. l. 5 after the Word Barony add in the Margine viz. Ecclesiastical Persons P. 174. or 274. T l. 18. r. done P. 204. V l. 2. r. Counsel So l. 11. Ib. P. 212. X l. 22. r. permixtim P. 217. X l. 26. r. de tout le c. P. 220. l. 6. r. taken Other Literal Mistakes the Reader is desired to correct with his Pen. A TABLE of the Principal CONTENTS The Number of the Page being often mistaken through the Printers false counting to one another the Reader is desired where the Figures are wrong to observe the Letter which begins the Sheet A Page Abby of Molross O 206 207 Absence of the Bishops not merely from the Canon-Law 84 N 181 182 Adam de Orlton's Case R 267 T 180 Agitare Judicium Sanguinis prohibited H 101 and N 157 183 Allusion made by the Questionist not solid 165 Appeal to Rome no capital Crime antiently M 173 Appeal of Earl Godwin Q 227 Appeals in Trial V 191 192 193 Appellation ought to be governed by the Right S 278 Apostles their Rule p. 89 how far their Practice to be urged for Example now 133 Apostolick Canons against Clergy-Men their medling in Secular Affairs P 135 216 Arch-bishop Stratford's Case T 282 283 284 Arundel Earl his Case O 208 Assemby at Northampton no Parliament p. 170 171 172. Matters carried there in great Heat and no Iudgment of Treason given M 172 173 Attainders what they are 9 10 Augustine St. his Opinion 94 95 B. BArons how made enobled in Blood and how made 107 to 120 Barons by Blood and by Tenure different 78 118 119 120 Barones Majores who 78 Z 245 246 Barones Minores who 7 8 Barons Peer who 21 107 117 Barones Regis who 107 Z 247 to 250 Barones Regni who ibid. Baronagium and how comprehensive 107 P 202 203 Y 226 S 278 Becket not impeached of Treason from 65 to 70 and from 172 to N 180 Berkeley Sir Tho. his Case 28 29 V 196 Blesensis his Words marked 97 98 125 167 168 R 261 Bishops whether they sit in Parliament by vertue of any Baronies p. 106 108 and how 122 c. T 174 or 274 Bishops not Barons 77 108 19 123 124 125 Bishops how they sate with the Earls 91 92 93 145 P 217 Bishops Service and Tenure a Burthen 106 124 125 Their Tenure offects not their Persons 77 Bishops if a third Estate not capable to try a Peer 128 Bishops the form of their Writs no Argument of their Power 86 129 130 when present always exprest that they were 36 Bishops medling in Secular Affairs forbidden 129 135 P 216. Their Opposition to the King at Clarendon and from what Cause 141 Bishops Power clipt at Clarendon 99 O 144 when to go away in Criminal Cases 161 196 197 even in Acts of Parliament R 265 Bishops Absence not merely from the Canons 8 84 N 181 182 183 190 N 193 O Bishops Protestation p. 5 6 7 translated and explained 41 42 and N 185 to 194 Bishops not reckoned Nobles T 184 or 284 not called Lords till the time of Rich. II. 108 Bishop of Norwich his Case 40 Bishop of Carlile tried by a common Iury T 279 so Bishop of Ely 278 ibid. Bishops Absence no Error 47 Bishops had no Right to be present in the Debate and handling matters of Blood 143 Bishops not comprehended under the name of Peers or Grands if put after Earls and Barons 14 18 to 25 32 Bishops if others named always named where they are present 24 29 32 36 and that before others R 261 Bishops not Peers to Temporal Lords 71 to 99 S 280 Bishops sit in respect of Temporal Possessions 83 yet in the quality of Spiritual Persons T 174 or 274 and S 289 Bishops cannot sit in a double Capacity S 288 289 T 174 Bishops contended to be tried by their own Order T 181 or 281 whence their pretence of Immunity proceeded 153 Bishops to be tried by common Iuries T 277 to 282 Bishops their Equivocation 141 Bishops Messengers of Peace V 197 Bishops chief Employment to make Peace in civil Affairs antiently Counsellours not Iudges p. 89 91 their refusing to give Advice about keeping the Peace 30 31 266 and R 269 Bishops but part of a third Estate 80 to 85 and 126 127 137 S 290 Bishops in France never sit in that Chamber of Parliament which tries Capital Cases 90 Bishops never absent not prov'd Q 228 Bishops no where allowed to sit Inquisitors of Blood V 198 Bishops not summoned to Parliament several times Q 238 Bishops a Question whether they might be even of a Committee in matters of Blood V 199 Boeges de Bayon's Case 25 26 Brady Dr. his Assertions and Fancies condemned Pref. to the 2d Part and p. 189 in Marg. V X A a 204 205 224 227 Burroughs and Burgesses Z 237 238 C. CAmbridg Earl 50 Canons forbidding of Clergy-men to meddle in Capital Causes still in force 87 164 and P 217 to 222 Canons concerning Blood as anciently in England as the Conquest and part of the common Law N 181 182 Capitalis Justiciarius Angliae what Office 137 138 Capitalia placita what Q. 229 230 231 Chancellour when no Peer how tried T 285 286 Charter of King John the Author's Interpretation of it asserted against Dr. Brady X 206 207 against Mr. Hunt Z 237 to 242 Clarendon the meeting there a Parliament 139 Clarendon and the Parliament there considered 99 100 142 Clarendon Earl his Arguments against the pretended Conquest A a 260 to 263 Chivaler who B b 284 Clergy subjected to Baron-Service 112 140 Clergy their Power in Primitive-times 89 their Power in other Nations 90 Clerus never taken for the Bishops alone 126 Commons and Commonalty of the Kingdom where Records and Histories manifestly shew their Presence at Parliament before 49 Hen. 3â—… X 211 to Y 22â—… Commons their Vote in Danby's Case O 98 Commons sometimes meant by Grands R 270 S 279 226 3d Part anciently had their share in Judicature R 266 267 268 Commons always Members of Parliament 172 O 202 sâ—… together with the Lords in the times of Hen. I and King Stephen X 212 and long afterwards O 202 203 204 Mr. W's Grounds for the Belief that they had no Right to come to Parliament till 49 H. 3. answered and turned against him X 210 to Y 227 so Mr. Hunt's p. 221 222 223 Y 235 and to A a 268 Commons their Petition 21 R. 2. p. 11. and O 195 196 Community of Names no Argument of Right S 278 Concordia 4 E. 3. 27 R 263 Conquest disclaimed by William the first 139 A a 260 no Conquest
than the Suitors at the Curia being Summon'd The Legislative power they exercised as Members of the General Council or Parliament And the Iudicial power as Members of the Curia and were Members of the Curia as they held Lands of the King in Chief Whereas Men came to the Parliament generally upon the account of property in Land without consideration of tenure so it were free In short a Man may have that in an extraordinary capacity in Parliament which he has not there in an ordinary I likewise held that Becket was try'd for Misdemeanors only though according to the Language of those days they were crimina Laesae Majestatis and that the Tryal was in a bare Curia Regis when no more than Suitors to that were summoned Mr. Hunt 's Argument upon this follows If it was the Curia Regis wherein the ordinary Justice of the Nation was administred and not the Parliament was intended in the Assize of Clarendon in which the priviledge and indulgence under the quosque was allow'd to Bishops then the Assize of Clarendon is unduly urg'd against the Bishops judging in Cases of Blood in Parliament c. And consequently by the Assize of Clarendon the Bishops have no leave to withdraw If the Court wherein Thomas Becket was tryed was the Curia Regis then the Bishops judging in that Court in that cause doth most clearly declare that being a case in point that the quousque was an indulgence which they might use or wave Now to my thinking this seeming irrefragable Argument has no real force For not to mention his wrong interpretation of the Constitution of Clarendon nor yet his mistake of the Fact in relation to Becket 's Tryal as if he were Tryed for a Capital Offence In both which I doubt not but he will receive Conviction to the contrary from these two Learned Authors I am bold to say that there is no manner of consequence in the first Branch of his Dilemma which is the only thing that can lye upon me to answer And truly I conceive that it by no means follows that because the Curia Regis in the Constitution of Clarendon is not the whole Parliament but only that Court which either when a Parliament was held or when only a Council of Tenants in Capite or Lords assembled had the sole exercise of the Judicial Power that therefore Iudgements in Parliament before the Lords such as were Members of the Curia are not affected by that Constitution any more than we can now say the House of Lords cannot be concerned in any matter which does not belong to the whole Parliament I shall only add three Observations which may go far to put an end to this Controversie 1. That part of the Constitution of Clarendon which says of the Ecclesiastick Tenants in Chief Debent interesse Judiciis Curiae Regis quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem membrorum vel ad mortem was part of the avitae consuetudines ecclesiasticae If it had been a New Law then indeed whatever was not expresly forbidden were matter of Liberty But it being only in affirmance of the Ancient Law their Liberty went no further than the usage which was to be present only till such Causes came to be tryed 2. If Precedents are as Mr. Hunt censures them like an Oracle that will always give a Response agreeable to the Enquirer and Consulter then we must as I formerly did look to the Law in the Case without entring into the large Field of Precedents 3. If the Canons require the Bishops not to concern themselves in the Tryals of Capital Causes and those Canons have been sufficiently received to become the Law of the Land which these Authors prove undeniably then the Bishops must ever be supposed to have been absent when such matters came in question in Parliament unless they are mentioned there by name and cannot be comprehended under words common to them with the Temporal Lords any more than we can imagine that the Popish Lords who are excluded the Lords House by Act of Parliament yet still are Peers are Parties to any Judgement given by the Peers there SIR THE former trouble I gave you upon this Subject you pulled upon your self by desiring my opinion in it but for this I now give you I must beg your pardon it being singly upon my own account to do my self â—…ht and justifie what I then wrote to you against several aspersions cast upon me in a Pamphlet entituled The Right of Bishops to judge in Capital Cases in Parliament c. made it seems by the same person who had set out the other Pamphlet intituled The Honours of the Spiritual Lords asserted c. Of which I gave you some account in a Postscript to my former Letter and I think without any sharp reflection either upon that Author or his work The most I said was When I had instanced in three notorious falsifications of his The first is p. 112. where he quotes Mr. Selden to prove That the Spiritualty made their Proxies in Capital Causes in more Parliaments than the 21 R. 2. for that they did it likewise in the 2 H. 4. and 2 H. 5. which I shew was a mistake and only said he could not find it so in the Record it self but that he took it upon trust out of the Margin of Mr. Seldens book of the Priviledges of the Baronage p. 125. where there is such a quotation of the 2 H. 4. and the 2 H. 5. but wholly misapplyed by our Assertor of Honours for Mr. Selden alledges that Precedent to shew that whereas 2 H. 5. it was by the then Earl of Salisbury assigned as an error in the Attainder of his Father who was condemned of High-Treason in the 2 H. 4. because it was done Sans Assent des Prelates which are the words of the Record Without the Assent of the Prelates by the way speaks nothing of Proxies it was then adjudged to be no error and his Petition rejected which in truth is a strong Argument to prove that the Prelates had no right to be present at such Tryals and Judgments which is the main Question between us And though he being of another mind had maintained his opinion by so gross a prevarication I was so far from retorting it upon him with any bitterness saying It was disingenious and a suppressing of truth and not setting things down faithfully which is his ordinary language concerning me Or with insipid jeers saying I wear a sharp Sword a Trenchant Toledo as one of the younger house of great Alexander and that he brings me to the Sun like Alexanders Horse and telling of the Magical combate in Apuleius and a City of Birds in Aristophanes and such other scurralous passages as his Book is full of which shews the sweetness of the Gentlemans nature and the goodness of his cause which he maintains only by railing and false assertions Whereas I rather lessened his fault saying only that he was mistaken by being
misled by the Printers misplacing the quotation so excusing him from any wilful error and purposely venting of untruths I do the like in another great falshood of his in the page following upon his citing a Record 21 R. 2. In the case of the Earl of Arundel which he makes to be That the Lord Steward by the assent of the King Bishops and Lords adjudged the said Earl guilty of Treason whereas the Record runs That the Lord Steward by the commandment of the King and all the Temporal Lords and Sr. Thomas Percy empowered by the Prelates and all the Clergy of the Kingdom judged him guilty c. This you see is a foul misrepresenting of his Precedent and imposing upon the Reader a falshood instead of a true Record for it shews that no Bishop was personally present and I make it out That the putting of a Lay-man in their steads is a strong evidence of the incapacity of all Clergy men to be any of them personally present at any of those Tryals Yet in this I rather excuse our bold Assertor shewing how he was misled here likewise by Sr. Robert Cottons Abridgment and only add this That methinks one should not venture to quote a Record upon any mans allegation without consulting the Record it self which I said I am sure he had not done which I think was as gentle a reprimand as could be and shews That I supposed him such a lover of truth as that if he had known it a falshood he would not have made use of it only he was deceived relying upon the authority of that learned Antiquary Sir Robert Cotton but in truth I am now of another mind and see my Gentleman hath a large Conscience and a mercenary Pen to publish any thing right or wrong to please those that set him on work His third notorious falshood is The Precedent which he cites of Richard Earl of Cambridge who he saith 3 H. 5. was tryed in Parliament upon an accusation of Treason and found guilty the Lords Spiritual being personally present and bids us see the Record of it in the Tower To which I only say That he had not done it himself for he would have found it contrary to what he asserts and that the Earl of Cambridge was tryed condemned and executed at Southampton by a special Commission and that his Attainder was afterwards brought into Parliament and there confirmed by Act of Parliament at which the Bishops might be present Now I pray you Sir do you judge if I gave him any occasion for such a reply as he hath made to me throughout from the beginning to the end of his Pamphlet and if he should not first have considered the Beam in his own eye and have purged himself and given the world satisfaction for these gross mistakes of his rather than add more to them as he hath done all along his book with language fitter for Billingsgate than for the eyes or ears of any sober man But I see it is the nature of the Beast as the Proverb is which he cannot help therefore we must take him as he is Naturam expellas furca licet usque recurret And now Sir I must beseech you to pardon the trouble I have given you with this long Recapitulation of those his falshoods in his former Pamphlet In which I have been the longer to set forth the advantage he gave to one that would have fallen soul upon him and how gently I dealt with him thereby to justifie or at least something excuse my sharpness with him now which I confess and am sorry for for his base return of scoffings and railings against me not fit for a Gentleman who deserved better at his hands and gave him not the least provocation for it But tread upon a Worm and it will turn again And so I shall apply my self to answer what he saith as to his Arguments in the maintenance of his Assertions which I think will not prove very convincing and will follow him as he sayes he would follow me step by step and I hope I shall make it appear that he hath made many a false step and will begin with his Postulata's as he calls them wherein he saith we do agree but he means I think like Dogs and Cats His first Postulatum is concerning the Protestation of the Bishops 11 R. 2. Wherein he saith we both agree that it is a Law But that I have not set it down faithfully leaving out the most considerable things in it because they make against me which if I have done I am a very bad man and may pass not as he stiles me for One of the younger house of great Alexander but rather of the house of this great Asserter himself who is the chief of the family of the Asserters of untruths His charge against me is for leaving out a passage in my recital of this Protestation which is what they say in the beginning of it and likewise towards the end of it claiming themselves to be Peers and that in right of their Peerage by the Laws and Customes of the Kingdom they ought to be personally present in all Parliaments Then he subjoyns another Protestation in the 28 H 6. which he saith also I have not cited faithfully and ingenuously as I ought to have done This is a great charge upon me if it be true that I have done any thing unfaithfully and disingenuously of which I hope I shall be able to purge my self And first give me leave to make a Protestation for my self in the general which I do upon the faith of a Christian and an honest Man and it is this That neither in the citing of these Records or any other throughout my Letter to you I have purposely and willingly left out or concealed any thing that I thought material because it made against my opinion But what I have written is the naked truth as I am fully perswaded in my Soul and Conscience and all that I have done in it hath been singly and meerly for the discovery of the truth and the satisfying of my self and others of which I take the searcher of all hearts to witness and let our Asserter say so much if he dares though for venting falshoods for truths I find him a daring man And now to come to these particulars I will first lay before you upon what ground and to what end I urged that Protestation of the Bishops 11 R. 2. It was for two reasons One to shew That it being at their desire enrolled in full Parliament by the assent of the King Lords Temporal and Commons it came to be the Law of the Land though it had not been so before The second thing was to shew that the Salvo of the Prelates in that Protestation extended only to their Right of Sitting in Parliament in other cases but not in Cases of Blood and that they did not therein at all pretend to that which I think I very clearly proved
in that Letter to which I refer my self But for these omissions which he makes so criminal As for the first concerning my not expressing that they made their Peerage a ground of their Protestation I answer That since what I conceived and maintained to have been their end in their Protestation which was Only to assert and lay claim to their Right of being present in Parliament in all other matters but matters of Blood was not at all controverted by me but that to which I fully agreed in omnibus I did not think it at all necessary nor proper to insert what moved them to make such a Protestation but only so much as was to the purpose for what I alledged that Precedent The matter of their Peerage is another point for which in truth there is little ground notwithstanding all their claim to it and that it be sometimes attributed unto them by such as desire to please them and perhaps by many ignorantly and mislead to it in regard of their sitting in the Upper House of Parliament and having a Parity of Vote with the Temporal Lords in the Legislative part and likewise in the judicial part of that House in all other Cases but of Blood from which they have been particularly debarred both by their own Canon Law and afterwards by the Law of the Land and the custome and usage of Parliament which may very well make many persons not considering the true nature of Peerage nor examining with care and diligence what in that particular our Law saith and what hath been the usage of Parliament give them that Appellation But I have in my former Letter cleared also this point I think very fully and shall say more to it in this when I come to answer that Article hereafter in course as our Assertor brings me to it for this now is but by the way upon occasion of this his first Postulatum And now for his other charge upon my unfaithful citing the Protestation in 28 H. 6. leaving out how the Lords Spiritual and Temporal joyned in challenging their Right of Judicature and that the Judgment given by the King concerning the Duke of Suffolk should not turn to their prejudice but they and their Successors should enjoy their liberties in case of their Peerage hereafter as freely and as largely as their Ancestors had before them I shall give a like answer to this as I did to the other I concealed nothing that was necessary and proper to be said which may appear by my letting forth particularly the whole proceeding in that Tryal step by step how the Prelates joyned in the management of it from the beginning to the end therefore certainly it had been no more a disadvantage to me to acknowledge that the Prelates claimed such a Right in a verbal Protestation than that they did actually exercise it as I say they did all along in the whole transaction of that business Therefore if it was designedly done it was a weak design in me my end was only to shew the palpable extravagances of that Tryal and of the Kings taking upon himself to give the Judgment and so mentioned the Lords Protesting against it in which the Prelates joyned with the Temporal Lords as well as they had in all the foregoing passages of it for the matter of their Peerage I reserved it still to be spoken to in a clause apart by it self when it comes to be the proper subject matter in question I did it in my former Letter to you and I shall do the same in this His second Postulatum is concerning Attainders in which he saith we both agree that Bishops may and ought to be present and yet Attainders saith he are matters of Blood and learnedly he adds That it is not material in the Judgment of any considering person which way a mans life is taken away whether by way of Attainder or by Impeachment and infers further That the Canon Law which by a jeer he saith I call the Law of Laws is not so indispensibly obliging And our Asserter it seems puts himself into the rank of those considering persons that make an Attainder and an Impeachment two distinct species or kinds of proceeding against a Criminal person to take away Life saying it is not material which of the two wayes life is taken away whether by Attainder or Impeachment Oh the Ignoramus that wants a considering Cap to judge aright and know what an Attainder is which is what follows upon the Conviction and Condemnation of the guilty Person be it upon an Impeachment in Parliament and Tryal there in a judicial way or by an Act of Parliament in the Legislative way or by a special Commission of Oyer and Terminer under the great Seal the Attainder is the Result and Consequent of those three wayes of Tryal and Condemnation and not a distinct thing running in a different channel from an Impeachment or from any of the other wayes of Tryal being the end and consequent as I say of all Tryals when the person is found Guilty The Term Attainder or Attainted implies so much which our Etymologists derive from the Latin Attingere to Touch or Reach to a thing Now a Criminal person is touched or reached unto and seized upon by the Law upon an Impeachment and Tryal in Parliament or by a Tryal out of Parliament by Commission as well as by an Act of Parliament so I think one may give it this Definition That it is a Notion in Law whereby the Law reacheth and seiseth upon a Condemned person taints his Blood and divesteth him of all his Priviledges both in publick and private concerns which he enjoyed before as a Free Man of England Besides our confident Asserter doth not consider the nature of the Question in controversy which is not Whether a Bishop quatenus a Bishop an Ecclesiastical person in holy Orders may be present as a Judge in any case when matters of Blood are agitated and whether the Canon Law be so obliging as that in no case he may but whether by the Law of the Land and the custome and usage of Parliament the Bishops be forbidden it when the House of Peers acts in a judicial capacity to condemn any body and not when they pass an Act of Parliament for it and I think it is clearly made out That they may in the latter case passing a Law for it and not in the former to act as Judges in a judicial way His third Postulatum is concerning the Petition of the Commons 21 R. 2. That in regard divers Judgments in Parliament had been heretofore undone and repealed for that the Lords Spiritual were not present at them the King would command them to make some their common Procurator with sufficient authority thereunto which would put an end to all controversies To this he saith That for me to demand what in particular those Judgments were at this distance of time is neither equitable nor rational And truely I made no such
demand for I do very well know what judgments the Commons did then not intend which were all Judgments in Capital Cases for it is most clear by all Records of Parliament and all the vestigia that remain with us of the usage and proceedings of antient Parliaments that there is not the least colour for so much as a doubt or a suspition that the Prelates or Lords Spiritual could have any part in those Judgments And we know on the other side what judgments they had their shares in which were all Judgments in such Civil Causes as came into the Parliament and in Criminal Causes that were not Capital and the Commons then could intend none but these which was enough to satisfie me that this Petition of theirs at that time was no wayes contrary or repugnant to what I maintained And by the way methinks it is worth observation the reason they give of their desire that the Bishops would make a Proctor not so much for that that their presence there was of so absolute necessity as that what was done without them was in it self null and void but to put an end to all controversies which shews the Prelates had expressed some dissatisfaction and had gotten some things which had been done in their absence to be undone and Repealed which considering their power at that time and how all the Laity was in awe of them would have a great effect upon mens minds and make them do what else they would not have done and perhaps strain a point a little to satisfie them And still it shews that notwithstanding their absence they were good and valid till the same power that had made them did Repeal them And to shew what an ascendant the Prelates had over King and Parliament and the whole Kingdom at that time see what they did but the year before 20 R. 2. They declared unto the King in open Parliament That they were sworn to the Pope and See of Rome and if any thing were in Parliament attempted in restraint of the same they would in no wise assent thereunto but would utterly withstand the same and can we then wonder if the Commons were not very loth to displease them and willing to comply with them much rather than have a controversie with them and perhaps be fain at last to undo what they had done His fourth Postulatum is upon the Protestation of Viscount Beaumont in the name of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in the Case of William de Pole Duke of Suffolk which hath been touched upon before wherein he now saith I have left out the most material words but what they are he expresseth not nor can I imagine what he means As I have already said I have been very particular in setting down every circumstance of the whole proceeding acknowledged the actings of the Prelates in it thoroughout as far forth as the Temporal Lords and then I say how upon the Kings giving Judgment upon the Duke that Viscount in the name of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal made that Protestation That it should not be nor turn in prejudice nor derogation of them their heirs ne of their Successors in time to come I think this was sufficient to shew that I did acknowledg all that could be pretended to for the Bishops Judicature in that business and what this Assertor would have more and wherein I have failed I can not imagine only I see he is a quick-sighted Gentleman and can see further into a Milstone than another man and spy a fault which another cannot see He hath a fifth Postulatum to whichI can say nothing for I understand not what he would be at he speaks of my accurateness in making a distinction between the Matter andForm of a Law and then saith He observes three things though he expresseth but two which he saith he shall have occasion to make use of hereafter when he comes to speak of the particular Cases and I must refer my Answer to what I shall there find when I believe I shall make it appear that he makes no great use of them nor of any other Argument that he brings And now I come to the particular Cases the first is 4 E. 3. of Roger Mortimer Earl of March being then condemned for Treason Here our Asserter saith That by 28 E 3. upon his Cousin Roger of Wigmore's petitioning to have this Judgment and Attainder reversed I acknowledg it to be an Attainder If I say truth say nothing to the purpose This is gentile language and which discovers my Gentlemans ignorance as well as his rudeness his ignorance in conceiving an Attainder to be only by a Law by an Act of Parliament in which Bishops may be present and if they were not so but did withdraw it was their own voluntary act and no diminution to their Rights I have already upon his second Postulatum handled this point so fully and made I think both his errour and the truth so clear as I need not say any thing more to it here Then it is a pretty Argument he brings against my saying That the Record being Les queur Counts Barons Piers les Articles per eur eramine rebindrent c. Which Earls Barons and Peers having examined the Articles returned c. It must be inferred that the Bishops cannot be comprehended under the word Peers since the Barons are named first To this his Answer is Well but I find the contrary Peers many times put before Barons particularly in Mr. Selden's Baronage p. 12. then he cites a Record of the Judgment against John Mautravers where it is said For which the said Peers of the Land and Judges of Parliament adjudge and award c. Doth this at all contradict my quotation of the Record in Roger of Mortimers Case but that it is as I say That the general word Peers is there put after the Barons and being so cannot comprehend Bishops because in some other Records that word is put before He talks of drawing arguments illogically I am sure this is so I would put him a Case he brings his Action of Slander against one for that at such a time in such a place he had spoken ill of him and said he was a lying Knave and other words that will bear an Action and proves it by witness That man proves by other Witnesses That at another time and in another place he had spoken very well of him and said He was a fine Gentleman I ask now if he would be satisfied with this and not stand upon it that he had proved his Plaint and expects a Verdict and Judgment upon it So may I say that my Precedent stands good and proves what I alledge it for and what he saith is not to the purpose But I will go further and make it appear that even his Precedents that he alledges make all for me and against himself and though he charges me with not being so good as my word saying That I
a Simon de Bereford Chebalier c. Item in the same Parliament our Lord the King charged the said Earls Barons and Peers to give a right and loyal Iudgement upon Sir Simon de Bereford c. It follows afterwards Si agarderent aviggerent les ditz Countes Barons Piers come Iuges du Parlement per assent du Roy que le dit Simon come treitre fast treisne pendu So the said Earls Barons and Peers as Iudges of Parliament did with the Kings assent award and adjudge Sir Simon de Bereford to be Drawn and Hanged You see the same persons were his Judges who had before Tryed and Condemned the Earl of March yet I must observe a little difference in the expressions The King in giving the charge to the Peers in the Earls Case the words of the Record are The King charges you Earls Barons Les Piers de son Royalme The Peers of his Realm which must be construed Who are the Peers or Being the Peers of his Realm And then their Judgement comes to be set down the Record saith Les queux Countes Barons Piers c. The which Earls Barons and Peers did so and so with a Conjunction Copulative and before Peers as if there were some other Peers after the Earls and Barons which if there were we are sure it could not be the Bishops which is all that we are to enquire into We know that heretofore the Kings of England did sometimes send Writs of Summons to other persons that were not Peers of the Realm but persons of Quality as Bannerets and some Officers as the Warden of the Cinque-Ports whom I find commonly to be the last set down in the List of those who were summoned And those persons so summoned came and attended the Parliament and had Voice and Vote with the Peers as Members of their House and as Peers pro tempore and might be comprized under the general name of Peers and being Lay-men might act as Peers in all Tryals and in all other Judgements of Parliament both Civil and Criminal even in Capital Causes but these could in no sort be esteemed to be Peers of the Realm though they might pass in a large acceptation and a vulgar construction of the expression be termed Peers in Parliament These now might be summoned to a Parliament or two or three Parliaments one after another as pleased the King and then be summoned no more if the King was otherwise minded and they could not pretend to have wrong done them their former Summons having been Ex mera gratia without any right of theirs to them So then I may conclude that it is all one whether you will take it as it is expressed in the Kings charge then The Earls Barons Peers of the Realm c. or as it is when they come to give Judgement and as it is likewise expressed in the Case of Sir Simon de Bereford The said Earls Barons and Peers c. and whether that Conjunction and before the word Peers be of any signification or no to mark out other Peers subsequent to the Barons is not material to what our Asserter would have to be understood of my leaving out any thing for it had all made for me and against him making it clear enough that the Bishops had no part in those Judgements The next Precedent is the Judgement of Iohn Mautravers the Record says Trestouz les Piers Countes Barons assemblez a ceste Parlement a Westminster 〈◊〉 on t examine estroitement sur ce sont assentuz accordez que John Mautravers 〈◊〉 est culpable c. All the Peers Earls and Barons assembled in this Parliament at Westminster have strictly examined and thereupon have agreed and accorded that John Mautravers is guilty c. I appeal now to any man that hath but common sense if it can be imagined that the Prelates or Bishops can be thought to be meant by that expression of All the Peers and if it be not the same in signification as when the King charged them to give righteous Judgement upon the Earl of March saying Si vous charge Countes Barons les Piers de mon Roialme c. And so I charge you Earls Barons the Peers of my Realm c. There the several ranks of Peers are first named and the general word which denotes their Quality common to both which makes them competent Judges of those matters that is their being Peers is put last And here in this Record concerning Mauâ—…avers it is put first Which comes all to one And it is further observable that at the time of that Parliament there were no Temporal Lords before Earls neither Dukes nor Marquesses So if any others were to be understood to be comprised under that General Title of Peers it could be only the Lords Spiritual which is a thing very ridiculous to believe Can it be thought nay can our Asserter himself think I trow not that when the other particular ranks and degrees of the Peerage are expressed and set down nominatim by name as one may say by Tale and by Token Earls and Barons that I say at the same time and to be joyned with them in the same action another rank of men viz. Bishops must pass under a General Title and that put in the first place as if Peerage were an Apellativum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to them or a Genus Imperfectum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the two Species the Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal which Genus the Logicians define to be Quod speciebus suis non communicatur ex aequo sed alteri magis alteri minus uni speciei immediatè propriè alteri mediatè in ordine ad primariam And that so the Lords Spiritual should still be principally and chiefly meant by the General Name of Peers they Primariò and the Temporal Lords Secundarió Those Logical expressions I know our Asserter understands well who blames others for bringing Illogical arguments therefore I put this to him But that they are not at all Peers of the Realm to speak properly and truly and as they are in the eye of the Law though they have sometimes been stiled so both by themselves and others I have in my former Letter I think made it clear and all that our Asserter saith to the contrary hath not made me change my opinion and I shall say more to it when I come in course to answer what is there said by him In the mean time I shall only add this which I lay for a ground that I do verily believe no instance can be given of an enumeration of some particulars in an Universal Collective Proposition and to leave out that particular which is first in Rank and ought to be first named if any at all be named and to have that to be tacitely implied under the General Term the Signum Collectivum As in this Proposition All the Peers Earls and Baâ—…ons gave such a Iudgement This
such Judgements and then particularly whether among the Grantz of that Parliament of 25 E. 3. that affirmed that Judgement against Thorp there were any Bishops And I infer there was none because they tell the King that hereafter even out of Parliament if any body else offend in like manner he may take any of them that is of those Grantz that now give him this advice to joyn in condemning him and by the Law of the Land a Bishop could not joyn therefore there was no Bishop amongst them And that by the Law Bishops and all Clergy-men were prohibited appears by the Act of Parliament of the second of that King which I mentioned before confirming one to the same purpose made in Edward the First 's time that No Clerk should be a Justice of Gaol-delivery for Tryal of Felons this I think is not petere Principium to prove the true meaning of what was done at that time in the House of Lords by what the Law of the Land had already established which must regulate what the House of Lords then did and doth shew there could be no Bishops in the number of those Grantz Then for what he saith of the Commons charging Michael de la Poole before the King Prelates and Lords which was in 10 R. 2. and parallelling his crime to that of Sir William Thorp who for it was condemned to dye upon which he will infer that Michael de la Poole was charged with a Capital crime and accused of it by the Commons before the Prelates as well as before the other Lords who gave their Judgements upon it He may examine the Record and he will find that the Impeachment was only for Misdemeanors cozening the King in an exchange of Land when he was Chancellour and some other miscarriages of that nature And it is the Impeachment which is in the nature of an Indictment that governs the Tryal be the crime what it will As it is laid in the Impeachment or the Indictment it must be so found upon the Tryal at the least it can be found no higher less haply it may be A man that is Indicted for a Misdemeanour cannot be found Capitally Guilty And though by a comparison by way of aggravation it was likened to Thorp's Case Michael de la Poole made it appear there was no resemblance between them And who will take pains to read the Record of Thorp which I dare say this Trifler never did nor scarce any Record will see that the ground of that Judgement which made it Capital was that himself had submitted to such a condition when he took upon him the Office of Chief Justice the words are Si sembla a eur le Jugement sur ceo rendu resonable depuis qil se obligea mesmes per son serement a tiel penance fil feist alencontre The Judgement given upon it seemed to them to be agreeing to reason since he had bound himself by his Oath unto such a punishment if he did contrary to his Oath And I must say it would go hard with a great many if every one should be hanged that cozens the King And it is a pretty remark of his upon Sir John Lee's Case 42 E. 3. that the Record saying That he was brought before the Prelates Dukes Earls Barons and some of the Commons c. He observes that if at this Tryal any thing had been objected which had been Capital the Bishops were present at it And I say he might have made a truer observation than that which is That they might be well assured that nothing Capital was to be objected because then the Bishops would not have been present And one thing I am sure is observable which is that the Bishops that is the Prelates are here recorded to be present and to be ranked before the Dukes Earls c. We are sure if any be specified they are and still ranked in the first place What my Gentleman means in what he saith upon the Tryals 50 E. 3. I understand not they are the Cases of Richard Lyons the Lord Latimer William Ellis the Lord Nevill and John Peach all these were only charged with Misdemeanors he saith their crimes were great and hainous and reckons the loss of Forts among them which he saith was a crime Capital in Gomenitz and Weston 1 R. 2. and that I acknowledge the Bishops to have been present at those Tryals But still this learned Gentleman who brags here that he will not suffer the World to be longer amused and imposed upon by my Notions doth himself still mistake the business not well understanding the nature of the thing he treats of Otherwise he would consider that the Tryal of a Criminal person must always be pursuant to his Charge which is a point I have already spoken to therefore I shall say little here only this that the Impeachment of the Commons against those persons was only for Misdemeanors their Tryal was accordingly and the Bishops were present And for what he saith of Gomenitz and Weston was clean another Case it was for betraying those Towns which they had undertaken to keep when the force upon them was not so great However it is not material what their Crime would appear to be upon proof but what their Charge was and that was Capital Then for what he adds of the Bishops being comprehended under the general Apellation of Les Seigneurs du Parlement The Lords of Parliament in several Cases which he there cites which he beats upon over and over again in so many several places of his Pamphlet and sets up like a Man of Straw of his own making to make sport with is what I never denied my Position is That I have still observed in all Tryals of Crimes when Bishops could be present it is so expressed that they were so as in all Crimes not Capital and I do not think one Instance can be given to the contrary And my other Position which I affirm with more confidence is That if any of the other ranks of the Lords be mentioned the Bishops are so likewise or else it is a certain argument that they were not there My Gentleman is a little put to his Trumps in the Case of Gomenitz and Weston 1 R. 2. That is so plain first the Commons coming and desiring That such as had lost Towns and Castles by their own default might be punished Per agard des Seigneurs Baronage By the Judgement of the Lords and Baronage whereupon those Lords commanded Gomenitz and Weston to be brought before them and upon a long hearing condemned them both to death And the Lords are particularly named the Duke of Lancaster first and ten more Earls and Barons by name of whom Roger Lord Clifford was the last and then a general clause Et plusours autres Setgneurs Barons Bannerettes And many other Lords Barons and Bannerets Now this is so plain and exclusive of all Prelates as my Gentleman is forced to confess that it seems
doubtful to him who these Lords were whether the Prelates or the Lords particularly named and plusours autres Seigneurs under which he saith very probably the Lords Spiritual might be comprised I see a truth cannot come clearly from him a thing that is most clear he makes it doubtful And one thing he saith most falsely of a Petition commanded to be read Numb 29. En cest Parlement per les Prelates Seigneurs Piers du Parlement By the Prelates and Lords Peers of Parliament which Petition he will have to be concerning this matter which is most false For that which is said Numb 29. is of a Petition and Writ of Error presented by William de Montague Earl of Salisbury which was then read and nothing at all concerning Gomenitz and Weston which is a horrible falshood and imposture of our Asserter to abuse the world so and impose upon the Reader The first request of the Commons concerning this business and to have this matter examined is Numb 38. and then Numb 39. there is mention of a Schedule given in by Weston and the Record saith Ueue leue la dite cedule en plein Parlement The Schedule being seen and read in full Parliament and any thing concerning Weston or Gomenitz before this there is not But some falshood he must still add of his own for the Jesuites Verse is very applicable to him Verba damus cum nostra damus quia fallere nostrum est Et cum nostra damus nil nisi verba damus And indeed throughout his whole Pamphlet he doth but Verba dare take Verba Words as in opposition to reality and truth for it is full of falshoods or take Words in opposition to matter and good sense for his whole Book is a very bundle of words without any good matter in it But one thing more I cannot but observe it is his insisting so much upon a thing which I am confident himself doth not believe though I have known a teller of stories tell one of his own invention so often that at last himself hath begun to believe it to be a truth It is that after the naming several Lords and ending with some Barons there is a general expression â—…t plusours autres Seigneurs Barons Bannerettes And many other Lords Barons and Bannerets my confident Gentleman hath the boldness to add Under which probably the Lords Spiritual might be comprised which he knows the Prelates of those times if they had been concerned in it would never have endured and the Clerk of the Parliament would as soon have eaten Fire as have entered it so Then in the Case of the Murtherers of John Imperial a publick Minister 3 R. 2. because I observe that it is expressed in the Parliament Roll that the Bishops were not present at the framing of the Act to make it Treason in them which I grant in other places of my Letter they might have been being to pass an Act of Parliament in a Legislative way my Gentleman is pleased to say That I forget my self In truth No I did suppose it and do suppose it to be a good Argument à minore to shew that the Prelates were then so modest as to withdraw upon the passing of a Law for the greater punishment of such a Capital Crime which in strictness perhaps they did not need to have done much more then would they avoid the sitting as Judges to take away life in a judicial way which they could no ways pretend to But my Gentleman loves to quarrel and scribble Paper though to no purpose To the Case of Sir Ralph Ferrers 4 R. 2. he only sings over his tedious plain Song That under the general word of Lords of Parliament Bishops may be comprehended and therefore he will have it That they must be so And much good may it do him with his Crambe bis cocta I may say centies cocta for I think he serves up this same dish a hundred times in this his learned Treatise But I may not let pass what he saith upon the Case of the Bishop of Norwich 7 R. 2. how extream falsly he recites things taking all upon trust how this man or t'other man cites a Record but never seeing the Record it self which perhaps he cannot so much as read He desires it may be taken notice of that for those Misdemeanors he was adjudged to make Fine and Ransome to the King and that the Judgement was passed upon him by the Lords by assent of Parliament where he saith he hopes I will not deny but that there were Bishops present and for this sends me to Cotton's Abridgement 7 R. 2. n. 23. but if he would have looked upon the Parliament Roll he would have found this Perquoy del aâ—…ent des Countes Barons autres Seigneurs Temporelz presentz en ce Parlement est assentuz accordez que vous soiez en la mercile Roy mis au fin raunceon pur vostre malfait solonc la quantitée qualitée dicell Therefore by the assent of the Earls Barons and other Lords Temporal present in this Parliament it is agreed and accorded that you shall be at the Kings mercy and put to Fine and Ransome for your misdeeds according to its quantity and quality You see now how this man would impose upon us and what stuff he brings to make good his assertion If I had been guilty of such a falshood I should have heard of it to purpose that both my ears would have rung again and no Ink this Gentleman could have got black enough to set it out in its colours Then he comes to the Case of Michael d la Poole 10 R. 2 where he saith the same things he did before and which I have already answered so to that I refer you The next is the 11 R. 2. where the Prelates withdrawing from Parliament by reason of matters of blood which were then to come into agitation enter a Protestation with a Salvo to their right of sitting in Parment which my Gentleman will have to be meant even of their being present at the agitation of those matters if they were so pleased This hath been treated of before at large already to which I refer you I will only observe this further at present out of the words of their Protestation first they say Quia in praesenti Parliamento agitur de nonnullis materiis in quibus non licet nobis aut alicui eorum juxta Sacrorum Canonum instituta quomodolibet personaliter interesse ea propter pro nobis eorum quolibet protestamur eorum quilibet hic presens etiam protestatur quod non intendimus nec volumus sicuti de jure non possumus nec debemus nec intendit nec vult aliquis eorum dum de hujusmodi materiis agitur vel agetur quomodolibet interesse sed nos eorum quemlibet in ea Parte penitus absentaxe This they declare That it is not lawful for them nor any of them
concerning Breakers of Truce and a Proviso in it That this Act shall not extend to any Act or Ordinance made 2 H. 5. late indeed and not of right King of England But still he is acknowledged King of England de facto which goes a great way to authorize any thing done under their power Therefore 11 H. 7. c. 1. A Law is provided to indemnifie all persons that shall do service to the King in being whether he have right or no. As for what is said of the Bishops making their Common Proxy at the prayer of the House of Commons That their Proceedings might be valid and not questioned in future Parliaments by reason of their absence and that divers Judgements had been reversed because they were not present It is true it is so expressed in the Roll of that void Parliament which as it hath no authority nor validity in it self so it is very strange that if there had been ground for this apprehension there should remain nothing upon Record in all the Rolls of Parliament that ever any Judgement or any other act done in any Parliament had been so repealed We know it was once attempted 2 H. 5. by Thomas Montacute Earl of Salisbury as I told you in my former Letter who brought his Writ of Error to reverse the Judgement given against his Father 2 H. 4. because the Bishops as he alledges there being Peers of Parliament were not parties to that Judgement but it was declared to be no Error and his Petition was rejected And we know that in Edward the First 's time there was a Parliament held at St. Edmonds-bury Clero excluso not a Prelate admitted to it And in Henry the Eighth's time all the Judges of England declared it for Law That the King might hold a Parliament with his Lords Temporal and Commons altogether without the Lords Spiritual Tout sans les Spirituels Seigneurs it is in Keilwayes Reports in Dr. Standish's Case Therefore there is no reason to think that any Judgements were repealed upon the Bishops being absent seeing their presence is not of necessity for the constituting and sitting of a Parliament And especially not for the Judgements which we treat of in Capital Cases because by what appears upon Record and by all the Laws Canon Common and Statute Law they never were present I always except that Unparliamentary Extravagant Proceeding and Judgement of Henry the Sixth in the twenty eighth of his Reign upon William de la Pool Our Asserter tells us of some Judgements reversed 15 E. 2. particularly in the Case of the Spencers but he doth not tell us where he finds it nor I believe doth he know himself having only taken it up some where upon trust as he doth other things But in this 21 R. 2. upon the Petition of the Earl of Gloucester it appears by the Record of the proceedings against the two Spencers Father and Son in that 15 E. 2. which are there repeated at large that there was nothing Capital in their Case neither in the Charge nor in the Judgement so as this signifies nothing to the matter in question which is all can be said to it And as little shall I say to his witty allusion of bringing me to a sight of my self as Alexander did his Horse to the Sun that he might not kick only this I might say if I were as foul-mouthed as he that indeed such a scoffing injurious Scribbler were fitter to be answered with a kick than with fair reasoning by way of Argument Next we come to the 1 H. 4. Sir William Rickhill's Case where I think I should do well only to transcribe what he hath written to shew it needs no answer but that I should waste too much Ink and Paper I represented in my Letter to you that Rickill being sent for into Parliament no formal charge being against him to give an account only by what order he had taken the Duke of Gloucester's Confession at Calais which he did the Bishops present but when they came to consider what was to be done upon it then only the Lords Temporal were asked their opinion which I alledge to shew that the Bishops there were not advised with because it might be preparatory to a further proceeding by way of Tryal And this our Asserter says is to serve an Hypothesis and learnedly gives it us in Greek and bids the Reader judge and so do I. Then for the Tryal of Hall who was one of the murtherers of the Duke of Gloucester he hath the condescension to acknowledge it probable that the Bishops were not there but then saith that they left it to the Temporal Lords without any Impeachment to their right it being secured before by the security of a confessed Act of Parliament 11 R. 2. it is their Protestation he harps at And if I had as much Greek as he I would say it in Greek that he now doth serve an Hypothesis or in good English beg the Question for that is his meaning of serving an Hypothesis for the Right which the Bishops there saved he will have to be and hath forty times repeated it to judge Capitally when they please but I have clearly shewed it was not of their assisting in those Judgements as he still will have it to be but other Judgements and proceedings in Parliament where in truth they had a right to assist Then follows the Case of William Sautre 2 H. 4. where he is pleased to give me a wipe for stiling him the Protomartyr of England and out of his great reading informs that St. Alban lived some hundreds of years before him but he must give me leave to inform him that the common acceptation of Martyrs amongst us Protestants now is of such Orthodox persons as have suffered for the truth whom the Papists have put to death for Hereticks and this man was the first of them in England He hath some other notable Remarks one is that whereas I said that the Bishops and Clergy of those times were the chief Promoters of bringing him to his end which I meant of their declaring him an Heretick and then turning him over to the Secular Power he observes upon it That then they acted in a Capital Case which he saith makes against me And that if it was the Lords Temporal who signed the Warrant for his execution that the Bishops had no hand in it and so have escaped my lash but who were his Judges nondum constat I am sure it doth not constare to me to what purpose he saith all this which I do not find to make either for him or against me No more than what he saith of the Case of the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury 2 H. 4. who he grants were declared and adjudged Traytors by the Temporal Lords and no Bishops present and then saith he will give a Parallel Case it is of the Earl of Cambridge and the Lord Scroope 3 H. 5. where the Bishops were present and
tumultuary way without any formal Tryal the business being brought into Parliament were by the Temporal Lords in a Judicial way of proceeding adjudged to be Traytors and their fact to be Treason But then he adds that I likewise make the Case of the Earl of Cambridge 3 H. 5. like to these which is not true being of a clean different nature an Act of Parliament which had its rise from a request of the House of Commons who brought it up to the Lords here I say the Bishops were and might be present That which he saith to the Case of Sir John Oldcastle 5 H. 5. is so threadbare with rubbing it over and over again and hath been so often said and so often answered as that it would too much trespass upon your patience Sir to trouble you with any one word of it more I think I have made it exceeding clear where under the general term of Lords of Parliament Bishops may be understood to be comprehended and where not Those particular Cases which he now brings to prove his Assertion are point blank against him that is the Case of Mautravers 4 E. 3. and of Gomenitz and Weston 1 R. 2. in that of Gomenitz many particular Lords are named several Earls and Barons and then a general clause Et plusieurs autres Seigneurs Barons Bannerettes Is it possible to think that Bishops come in that fag end Indeed I do observe one thing in this Case of Sautre which is not in any of the other I cannot say that I lay any great stress upon it yet something it is that the Record expresses that the Bishops had done with him declaring him a Heretick and then Relinquentes eum ex nunc Iudicio seculari Leaving him from henceforward to the Secular Judgement as if they should say They would have no more to do with him And as convincingly he argues in the Case of Sir John Mortimer 2 H. 6. He confesses with me that the Indictment found against him at the Guild hall was brought into Parliament before the Duke of Gloucester and the Lords Temporal Fuit liberatum It was there delivered to them and then he cites a Record as he makes it De advisamento dictorum Dominorum auctoritate istius Parliamenti ordinatum est statutum quod ipse usque ad Turrim ducatur By the advice of the said Lords it was ordained and enacted by authority of the said Parliament and by the advice of the said Lords Temporal that he should be led to the Tower These are his words and how he hath mangled and falsely rendred and expounded the Record you will judge by the words of the Record it self which I will here faithfully set down It is this Numb 18. Memorand quod 26. die Februarii anno praesenti de advisamento Dominorum Temporalium ac ad Supplicationem Communitatis Regni Angliae in praesenti Parliamento existentiam redditum fuit quoddam Iudicium versus Iohan. de Mortimer de Bishops Natfield in Comitatu Nertford Chevalier cujus quidem Iudicii recordum patet in Schedula per Iohannem Hals unum Iusticiariorum Domini Regis de banco edita praesenti Rotulo consuta Memor That the 26th of February of this present year by the advice of the Lords Temporal and at the Petition of the Commons in this present Parliament a certain Judgement was given upon Sir John Mortimer of Bishops-Hatfield in the County of Hertford Knight the Record of which Judgement appears in a Schedule drawn by John Hals one of the Justices of the Kings-bench and fastened to this Roll. Then follows the Schedule it self where is set down what past at Guild-hall upon the sinding of the Indictment and how that Indictment was brought into the Parliament Coram duce Bedfordiae ac aliis Dominis Temporalibus Before the Duke of Bedford and the other Lords Temporal and how Sir John Mortimer was brought before them by the Lieutenant of the Tower and how the Commons desired the Indictment might be affirmed and that Judgement might be given upon him Then follows Super hoc viso plenius intellecto Indictamento per dictum Ducem de advisamento dictorum Dominorum Temporalium ac ad requisitionem totius Communitatis authoritate istius Parliamenti ordinatum est statutum quod Indictamentum affirmetur praedictus Iohannes Mortimer de proditionibus praedictis sit convictus ad Turrim ducatur usque ad furcas de Tyburn trahatur super eas suspendatur c. Hereupon the Indictment being viewed and well understood it was by the foresaid Duke by the advice of the said Lords Temporal and at the request of all the Commons ordained and decreed that the Indictment should be affirmed and the foresaid John Mortimer stand convicted of his foresaid Treasons should be carried to the Tower then drawn to the Gallows at Tyburn and there hanged c. This was a Judgement of the House of Peers in their Judicial capacity upon an Impeachment and at the pursuit of the House of Commons who prosecuted and pressed the evidence before the Lords the words of the Record are Tota Communitas praefatum Indictamentum illud in omnibus fuxta vim formam effectum efusoem pro vero fideli Indictamento affirmat ac praefatis Duci ac aliis Dominis Temporalibus supplicat eadem Communitas quatenus iidem Dux Domini Indictamentum praedictum pro vero fideli Indictamento affirmare vellent quod executio dicti Iohannis Mortimer ut de proditionibus feloniis convicti fiat The whole House of Commons do affirm the foresaid Indictment to be in all points for the force form and effect thereof a true and legal Indictment and that execution of the said John Mortimer as of one convicted of the said Treasons and Felonies may follow This you see was a formal Tryal in all points and a Judgement upon it and so it is entred upon the Roll such a day 26 Februarii de advisamento Dominorum Temporalium ad Supplicationem Communitatis redditum fuit quoddam Iudicium versus Iohannem de Mortimer c. And our Asserter here tells us a tale of a Tub that the matter should be decreed after by Authority of Parliament of which the Bishops are an essential part and therefore were present which is an excellent Chimaeâ—…a as if the Advisamentum Dominorum Temporalium Authoritas Parliamenti were two distinct things and the work of several persons some actors in the one who were not so in the other and that the advice of the Lords Temporal had produced some other things which had a greater authority and that the Bishops had joyned in that which shews his ignorance in the course of Parliaments for the Judgement which is given Judicially in the House of Lords hath upon it the stamp and the authority of the whole Parliament and that Advisamentum of the Lords Temporal here was the Judgement as is the advice and assent of the Lords Spiritual
and Temporal and of the Commons in Parliament in the passing of an Act of Parliament for when a thing is said to be enacted by the King with the advice and assent of the two Houses that advice and assent of the two Houses is their passing and enacting of it as to their part in it For any thing that is done in either House if the King be mentioned in it is said still to be done by him with the Advice and Consent of that House so in a Judgement judicially given by the House of Peers where anciently the King was often present when they acted judicially it is said to be given by the King by the advice of his Lords and here the Duke of Gloucester represented the Kings Person and held the Parliament by Special Commission so the Judgement is said to be given by him by the advice of the Lords Temporal And so the Lords 28H 6. when the King of himself gave the Judgement upon the Duke of Suffolk the Lords protested against it because it proceeded not by their advice and counsel For that is it which gives the form and being to the Judgement and stamps upon it the Authority of the Parliament Then he comes to a Precedent without debate as he calls it which is that of 28H 6. the Duke of Suffolk's case and confessed so by me as he saith but not truly For I do not allow it to be a just and legal precedent I do acknowledge that the Bishops were present all along the whole transaction of that business but as I said in my first Letter to you so I must and do say in this there was in it from the beginning to the end nothing regular nor according to the usage and practice of Parliaments Then it cannot be said to be a Precedent no more than a Monster that hath no shape nor limb of a true Child can be said to be a Child As for the particular deformities of this Monster for so I may term it they are already so fully deciphered in my former Letter as I will not now trouble you with them again So it shall pass at this time as he will have it for a Precedent without debate for it shall not be any further debated Only I must say still it is but a single Precedent and of what force that is or can be when the constant course and practice of Parliaments hath been to the contrary I leave it to you to judge One single Precedent against all other Parliaments is an unequal match one would think I have heard of a great conquering Prince that gave it for his Motto Souls contra omnes but I have not heard it said so of a Parliament Solum contra omnia The authority of any one Parliament I know to be very great yet it is a known Maxime in the Law Parliament poit errer A Parliament may err and another Parliament may mend what one doth amiss Parliament-men are men and may and do sometimes mistake as well as other men it is possible they did so 28H 6. and more than probable they did so because no other Parliament before nor since did ever do the like And for his Recapitulation of all the fore-mentioned Records in all twenty seven which he makes to prove that this was not a single Precedent as I affirm it to be all the rest as he saith concurring with it to admit Bishops to be Judges in Capital Cases I will only say Sit liber Iudex resort to the Records themselves and to what is already said in my former Letter and this and then judge if he saith true Then he hath a fling at me for what I say upon the Case of Nicholas de Segrave 33 E. 1. where he must give me leave to say with truth what he saith falsly of me upon several occasions which is this That he hath not set down things Faithfully and Ingenuously He saith Segrave came into full Parliament into the presence of the King the Arch-bishop of Canterbury and several Bishops Earls and Barons acknowledged his offence and submitted to the Kings pleasure Upon this he observes That here was no Iudicatory of Parliament and then adds that the King pardoned him De advisamento Comitum Baronum Magnatum aliorum By the advice of the Earls Barons Nobles and others You shall see now how faithful and ingenuous a dealer our Asserter is but certainly he takes all upon trust and takes not the pains to see any thing himself First I do acknowledge it was no formal Tryal for there was no impeachment nor Indictment against him but I must say it was Tantamount for he comes in upon Summons into the Parliament then sitting where the Prelates were among the rest of the Members of the House and how long they continued there it appears not by the Record but he being come Nicholas de Warwick the Kings Councel charged him and pressed matters against him And then the King as the Record saith willing to have the advice of the Earls Barons Nobles and others of his Counsel enjoyned them upon the Homage Fidelity and Allegiance which they owed him to give him faithful Counsel what punishment was fit to be inflicted upon such a fact so confessed Who all of them upon a serious debate and advising upon the matter and well weighing all the particulars of it and what was by the said Nicholas plainly and expressly acknowledged do say That such a man deserved to lose his life But afterwards the Record saith Dominus Rer tamen de gratia sua speciali pietate motus malens vitam quam mortem eorum qui se voluntati suae submittunt remittit eidem Nicholao Iudicium vitae membrorum But the King moved by his special grace and piety desiring rather the life than the death of those that submit to his will did remit unto the said Nicholas the Judgement of loss of Life or Member Here you see the King advised not with his Prelates but with the Earls Barons and other Nobles and what did they advise Not to pardon him as our Asserter will have it but they say he deserved death and then the King of himself would not have it go to that extremity Now whether this Judgement would have been final if they had pronounced sentence and adjudged him to death as they only said such a man deserved death or whether this was only to be preparatory to a Tryal and to proceed afterwards upon a formal Impeachment I confess it is not clear to me nor is it greatly material to our purpose only it shews the Bishops were to give no advice in it one way or other and it is rather stronger to prove they are not to meddle in such matters if it was but preparatory For it shews that in those Capital Cases they must have nothing to do with them to determine and judge any thing concerning them from one end to the other ab ovo usque ad mala as the
saying is neither in the Judgement it self nor any thing leading to it So he comes to the Arch-bishop Becket's Case where he notably spends his mouth but like an ill Hound all upon false Hunting and indeed runs riot so far as he is not to be lashed in He fills several leaves of his Book with Encomium's of the Popish Clergy because some of them sometimes did what it was their duty to do which doth not excuse them in the general current of their proceedings commonly to stand for the authority of the Pope and the See of Rome against the Regal power and the authority of Parliaments as they did 20 R. 2. saying They were sworn to the Pope and to that See and they would oppose whatever the King and the Temporal Lords should do En restriaion del Poair Apostoliqué ou derogagation de la libertoe de Saina Eglise In restraint of the Power Apostolick or derogation of the Liberty of Holy Church So he takes much pains to assert the Kings natural right to command his Subjects to serve him upon any emergency and so to make Clergy-men Justitiaries if he see cause for it Which then gives them power of Judicature and I do acknowledge it but it is to be understood of Judicature in such Cases as the Law of the Land allows we know they have been some of them Lord Chancellours Lord Treasurers Lord Privy Seal but can he shew me that any of them judged in Cases of Blood For this Case of Beckett's is certainly misrepresented in Fitz-Stephens manuscript We know there have been heretofore in many Counties Justices of Assize which have been Clergy-men joyned with others in Commission who were not Clergy-men to take Assizes in the County And the Act of Parliament 27 E. 1. c. 3. coming to give power to those Justices of Assize to deliver the Gaols and so to be made Justices of Gaol-delivery and try Felons and Murtherers it provides that if one of them be a Clerk then one of the most discreet Knights of the Shire shall be associated to him that is a Lay-man and be empowered by the Knights Writ to deliver the Gaols of the Shires and chasten and punish whom they shall find to be guilty And this Statute is confirmed 2 E. 3. c. 2. which makes it manifest what the intendment of the Law is in that particular that Clerks must not meddle to judge in Cases of Blood and must hold good even for Bishops who are all of them Clerks As for this Case of Beckets which only stands upon the credit of a Manuscript said to be made by Fitz-Stephens a Monk whom he characterizes for a sober and grave Historian and more solito out of the sweetness of his nature gives me a lash saying It is usual with me to let fall expressions to vilifie Testimonies and Precedents when they make against me and this because I stile it a Blind Manuscript and suspect the Author as partial having been a creature of Beckets and consequently no friend to the King And therefore I give rather credit to the unanimous consent of the Historians of those times who do not relate the passages of that Tryal to be as he makes them than I do to him and his Manuscript I call it a Blind Manuscript because it sees not the light lyes obscure in some bodies Closet Mr. Selden doth not tell where and I dare say our Asserter never saw it though he terms the Author a grave Historian His tale is how at that great Council at Northampton Archiepiscopus laesae Majestatis Coronae Regiae arguitur quia est a Rege citatus pro causa Iohannis neque venerat neque idonee se excusasset c. The Arch-bishop is questioned for Treason against the Crown of the King because he was summoned by the King in the Cause of John that is one John the Marshal who complained that the Arch-bishop had done him injustice in his Court and he neither came nor had sifficiently excused himself upon sickness or any other just reason which might necessarily hinder him whereupon he was condemned to forfeit his personal estate and the Bishops and Barons not agreeing who should pronounce the sentence they putting it off from one to another at last the King commanded the Bishop of Winchester to do it This is his story and one may think it a strange piece of Treason one not to come immediately upon a Summons to attend the King especially if it be true what all the Historians that write of those times have related of this business Gervasius Dorobernensis is an Author as Mr. Selden observes who lived in that age and one of whom Mr. Selden and all Antiquaries we are sure have a good opinion and though our Asserter is confident enough to affirm they all have so of Fitz-Stephen it is of what I do not find that much hath been said by them to shew that nor do I think that any of our Antiquaries but Mr. Selden doth so much as mention him And from Gervasius Dorobernensis we have this relation Rex praecepit praesules Proceres regni apud Northamptoniam una cum ipso Archiepiscopo convenire c. The King commanded the Prelates and Nobles of the Kingdome together with the Arch-bishop himself to meet at Northampton where the Arch-bishop was accused of many things first that he had not fully done justice to one John that had a suit before him then that upon this occasion being called into the Kings presence he neglected to come To this the Arch-bishop made answer That John had all the justice done him that was due to him that he had illegally defamed his Court that he would not swear upon the Evangelists as the custome is but upon an old Song-book which he brought with him But that being upon this summoned he came not into the Kings presence was not upon any contempt but that he was hindred by a great sickness and that he had excused himself by two competent witnesses whom he had sent for that purpose yet this served not his turn but Curiali Iudicio Episcoporum consensu condemnatus est He was condemned by the Iudgement of the Court the Bishops consenting to it that all his personal estate should be at the Kings disposing This now is delivered unto us by an unquestionable known Author who lived in that time Fitz-Stephen and he agree in the matter of the Accusation and agree in the Judgement but Fitz-Stephen lays it to be Crimen laesae Majestatis Coronae Regiae High-Treason which must be for not coming to the King when he was summoned Gervasius saith that he sent his excuse by two witnesses who testified that he was then very sick and not able to come which we all know to be a Lawful Essoine De malo lecti which cannot be disallowed but must excuse nay justifie any bodies absence Now can any body that is master of common sense believe Fitz-Stephens relation who will have this to be
specialiter tangentibus tractare consilium impendere and thither they are obliged to come and attend by their Tenure of their Baronies where they sit in their Personal Capacity to do the service which they owe for the Lands they hold of the King Now we will consider if being there upon such an account it can any ways stand with reason and the nature of a Third Estate to esteem them to be so 1. To represent the body of the lesser Clergy as our Asserter will have them to do who else he saith would be in a worse condition than the meanest Clown having no body to represent them in giving Aids and Subsidies first I say that as Subsidies were heretofore given in Parliament which was the ancient Parliamentary way of supplying the necessities of the Crown and Government where the Convocation gave the Supply of the Clergy the Bishops as Members of the House of Lords had nothing to do in it but as Members of the Convocation they had and the Representatives of the lesser Clergy who were chosen by them and made up the Lower House of the Convocation they gave their consents and joyned in that Gift for the whole body of the Clergy the two Houses of Parliament did only ratifie and confirm what the Convocation had done and therefore only the beginning and the end of that Act of Subsidy given by the Clergy not the body of it was openly read in the several Houses of the Lords and Commons So 4 R. 2. the Commons having offered to give an aid so as the Clergy who enjoyed a third part of the Realm would pay one third part of the Summ the Clergy answered That they were not to grant any Aid by Parliament but of their own free wills and therefore willed the Commons to do their duties and they would do theirs This was the ancient way of granting supplies in Parliament where you see the lesser Clergy had their Representatives which it seems our Asserter did not understand and so no wonder if he did mistake as he commonly doth And this I must say further the lesser Clergy as he calls them are little beholding to him to have them to be represented by Bishops having no hand in the choice of them This I am sure puts them into a meaner condition than the meanest Clown who if he have but 40 s. Free-hold gives his voice to whom he will to represent him in Parliament to give his assent to part with his Money and to make any Law to bind him Of later times they have taken up another way of granting publick supplies which is of so much in the Pound which they call a Pound-rate and this brings in the Clergy to pay their proportion who are now as busie as any in electing of Members to Parliament In a word none can represent another in Parliament that is not chosen by him every particular person that hath right of vote being included in the majority of Vote So the whole Clergy being the third Estate of the Realm and the Bishops not being chosen by them they cannot represent that third Estate 2. The Bishops sit not in the House of Lords Ratione Spiritualitatis as was the opinion of all the Judges of England 7 H. 8. in Keilway's Reports in Dr. Standish's Case Les Spiritual Seignieurs nont ascun place en â—…e Parlament chamber per reason de lour Spiritualtie mes solement per reason de lour temporal possessions The Lords Spiritual have no place in the Parliament chamber by reason of their Spiritualty but by reason of their Temporal possessions How then can they be said to be there a Third Estate to represent the Clergy of England when they sit not there as Clergy-men 3. If they be a Third Estate they must have a Negative voice to whatever is proposed in the House if the majority of their opinions be against it And for our Asserter to say that the Custome and so the Law of the Parliament is otherwise and that the two Estates of the Lords Temporal and Spiritual make but one House where they vote intermixedly Why this shews they are not two Estates because they do vote intermixedly for if they were so they must vote severally and not be twisted so together as they are as I said before in my former Letter like a nest of Boxes one within another And think what a disparagement it would be to the House of Lords that two Estates must be clapped together to make them equal to the one Estate of the House of Commons 4. If the Bishops were a Third Estate the Parliament could not act as a Parliament without them for a Parliament is composed and must consist of Three Estates and nothing is binding but what is so passed But we know that in Edward the First 's time there was a Parliament called and held Clero excluso and Laws were there made when none of them were present and many Acts have passed in several Parliaments when the Bishops have all voted against them The Judges in that of 7 H. 8. deliver their opinions for Law Due nostre Sur le Roy poit assetz bien tener son Parlement per luy ses Temporal Seigniors per ses Commons tout sans les Spirituals Seigniors Our Lord the King can hold his Parliament himself with his Temporal Lords and his Commons wholly without the Lords Spiritual These and many other Reasons confirm me in my opinion that Bishops are neither Peers of the Realm nor a Third Estate in Parliament yet they might be both and not invalidate my Position which I at first undertook to prove which was only this that by the Practice and Custome of Parliament and by the Law of the Land Bishops are prohibited from meddling in Parliament as Members of the House of Lords in any Tryal of a Criminal Person where the Charge the Proceedings and the Sentence upon it is Capital and goes to the Loss of Life or Members only one Precedent excepted that extravagant one of 28 H. 6. And my good friend the Asserter who hath almost as many Errata's as Lines in his Book must give me leave to summ up all my Corrections of them in one Distich as Martiall did those of his Friend Fidentinus such another Fidentinus it seems as our Asserter and it was this Emendare tuos O Fidentine libellos Multae non possunt una litura potest And I must say the Verse doth not better quadrare with the product of his Brains which hath so many faults as can only be covered and put out of sight with one rasure from the beginning to the end than this one and the same Name of Fidentinus deciphers the Confidence of them both Nullâ pallescere culpâ And so I shall leave my Friend Fidentinus to learn better manners if he be not altogether incorrigible and apply my self to peruse and answer if I can a Treatise of a worthy Gentleman who is I see of a differing opinion
with an evil Eye with much other such Language throughout his Book which the Reader may observe if he pleases He ought with more Reason to have considered the Age the Quality the Place this Octavo Gentleman beld at Court the Service he had done his Country both at home and abroad rather than to have loaden the Ashes of a dead Noble-Man with Revilings railing Language and Reproaches who was known to be a Person of so great Worth and Experience The Reader will pardon this Warmth in me when I hear a Person now at rest so slighted who had he been alive this little Gown-man durst not have approached without marks of Reverence and Submission But let us allow him to make up the shortness of his Reasoning by the length of his Railing Thirdly His Extravagancies are so numerous that nigh every Leaf hath somewhat or other of that Nature Conjectures and Surmises without any manner of Proof must pass for Demonstrations One while the Bishops are Spiritual Barons a Title I never remember given to them nay not so much as Lords Spiritual till the time of Rich. II. Another time Feudal Barons and that there was no other than Feudal Nobility Sometimes they are Barones Majores yet not enobled in Blood nor their Honour conferred upon them by any actual Ceremony or otherwise esteemed than Barons by Tenure and that William the Conqueror intended that as an Honour which themselves and all other Historians complain of as a Burthen That the Bishops in Parliament are a full third Estate and yet we know Acts are good when they are either excluded absent or oppose the passing them and yet they never represented any but themselves Sometime he is troubled that the Nomination of the Bishops is in the King These things cursorily observed by me makes his whole Book appear an indigested Lump fit to be lick'd over if so it may be brought into any form 'T is not unlike a Lottery where after a hundred Blanks you may chance get a Prize But I shall leave a further Examination of his crude Notions to another Hand who may be more concerned to detect his Errors than I am However I cannot omit the taking notice of his pompous Title â—…tis indeed a Titulus Sesquipetulcus Their Right unalterable in that place in the Government they now enjoy which Fancy is confirmed by a Consequence of his own making Page 122 That the Bishops cannot be detruded from that Place they bear in the Constitution of the Government for that no Government can legally or by any lawful Power be changed but must remain for ever once established and it cannot be less then Treason of State to attempt a Change No Authority in the World is competent to make any Alteration How false this Position is he will find if he consult the frequent Change of Governments since the Creation in the Jewish Grecian Roman nay in our Britannick State with many others in all parts of the World Neither can I imagine this Maxime can serve him to any other end than to arraign those Parliaments who have made Laws without them or that in 17 Car. 1. Anno 1642 which by Act took away their Seats in that House And lastly to accuse those as Traitours to the State if any hereafter shall attempt it I am confident no Parliament will endeavour to take from them their just Right but to say they cannot and that the Government cannot then subsist is as absurd as the other is unlikely I must further observe that this Author doth upon all Occasions blame those Persons who deny the Prelates that judicial Power in Capital Cases he would place in them as Enemies to the Government whereas he ought to know that Exceptio probat regulam in non exceptis He that gives them Authority in all things that are clear and denies it them in dubious doth more asserttheir Right then he that by giving it them in all things doth rather perplex it I have now done with this unwary Writer who whilst he seems so zealous for the Government doth himself in the main part of it unhinge and destroy it Doth he not Pag. 144. endeavour to destroy the most ancient Court of Chancery which he calls both a Reproach and Grievance to the Nation Doth he not spend some Leaves to shew how this may be effected by setting up as many Chancellours as there shall be Judges in Courts which must in the end be either wholly useless or run us upon an Arbitrary way of proceeding and put an end to all our ancient way of Trials by Iuries and leave all in the Breast of the Iudg to determine Let him not now think to take off the Envy of this by a fawning commendation of our present Lord Chancellour I am so well acquainted with the great Abilities and large Endowments of that Noble Person that I doubt not but his just Decrees in that Court will remain as perpetual Testimonies of his Conscientious Iustice and Equitable Distribution of it in that place in which he is now settled Nor can I believe he will be pleased with any tho never so due Commendations to the Disparagement of his worthy Predecessors or such as hereafter may succeed him in the most Honourable Station in which he now is worthily placed DId the Author of this Treatise believe that the Lord Bishops voting as Judges in Parliament in Cases of Life and Member could any way conduce either to their Honour or Greatness or the Good of the Church and Nation he would never have entred the List in this Quarrel being himself wholly conformable and in his Judgment fully approving the Polity of the Church of England as the best reformed of any other he knows having cleared herself from the Superstitious Formalities of the Church of Rome on the one hand and on the other not requiring from her Children under Terms of Communion any thing in which she may not lawfully as he thinks be obeyed But being fully convinced that their asserting this Right in themselves will bring forth no other Fruit except Envy to their Persons and perhaps sometime or other through the unequal Affections of a head-strong People Prejudice to their Functions I have been the more easily induced to make known my Thoughts herein I observe there have already been made publick six elaborate Treatises upon this Subject four asserting a Right in them to vote in Parliament in matters of Blood and two against it But because the last and most learned Tractate which goes under the name of the Grand Question c. is look'd upon and indeed is the most material I shall apply my self chiefly to the Examination of his Arguments and I hope discover the Errors Fallacies or Inconsequences of them He tells us at first that 't is granted on both sides that the Bishops sit in Parliament by virtue of their Baronies This I must take Liberty to question as doubtful still premising that Truth doth not lye in
what Men may say of themselves or passeth under common Estimation of Men but what upon serious Examinition of the Question shall be found to be true I shall endeavour to make it appear that many who held Lands in Cap per Baroniam or per servitium Baroniae were not enobled in Blood nor had Right to demand their Writ of Summons as the Noble Barons had but were to expect the King's Will and Pleasure and were often left out These were secundae Dignitatis Barones or Barons by Tenure only of which some might probably be adopted into the Nobilitas Major afterwards as Barones adscriptij yet at first were not so and this was to them an Honour but to the Bishops a Burthen who held their Lands free before and had no Honour conferred upon them as the rest had For tho it be true that all the great Noble-Men held per Baroniam yet was it not their Tenure which gave them that Right as I shall shew by and by These second sort of Barons were called Barons Peers because they held of the King in Capite as his immediate Free-holders and were stiled Barones Regis for the Word imported then no more but Men holding of the King's Person in Capite These subdivided their Lands to others under the like Military Service these were likewise called Barons from their appearing at their Lord's Court called the Court Baron and Baronagium became a Word of general Signification comprehending those liberè Tenentes or Sutors to the Court Baron who together with the King 's immediate Tenants who were the Barones Regis that is the Kings immediate Free-holders made up the Communitas Angliae and comprehended all Persons except such as held in Villenage Besides these thus made by the King there were others some found here some brought out of Normandy of great Nobility and Extraction who had of their own great Possessions as Earldoms and Counties in this Country and others brought over with the Conquerour out of Normandy of an Inferiour Rank to whom he gave the like Honour out of the Lands of those adhered to Harold which all held of him per Baroniam but by Creation were many of them afterwards made of a higher Rank and were called Comites Regis and Majores Barones Regni they being possessed of the like Honours in their several Countries before The Bishops I conceive were not under any of these Ranks but were called to Parliaments ratione Episcopalis Dignitatis not ratione Tenurae only of which they complained as a Burthen Creation they had none to any higher Honour than Episcopal their Tenure could not give them a greater Honour than to be Barones minores or Barons Peers Neither can I find in any Act of Parliament or Record that they were called Lords before the time of Rich. II. and then first called Lords Spiritual to shew their Honour arose from their Spiritual Function and not from any Temporal Possessions nor the name of Barons applied to them except by themselves who perhaps finding the Burthen of their Service which before was free were willing that others should give them the Title tho there was no more reason that their Tenure by Baron Service should make them Barons than that Knight Service should make the Tenant a Knight Having thus cleared my way I shall in the next place shew that these Barones Minores or Barons Peers were sometimes summoned by Writs to Parliament and sometimes left out The Abbot of Feversham one under the same Rule with the Bishops was summoned to 12 Consecutive Parliaments as Tenant in capite per Baroniam and then left out 19 Edw. 2. Rot. penes remem Dom. Regis in Scall Thomas de Furnival had been sumoned to 30 Parliaments and yet upon an Amerciment in the Exchequer pleads he was no Baron now except he had held in Cap. per Baroniam or part of a Barony he could not have been summoned at all as a Member of Parliament Whether his Plea were allowed doth not appear upon the Record but by this and some other Records in my hand to the same purpose it seems to me that many that held per Baroniam were not Barons but at the best Bannerets or Barons Peers I cannot find by my utmost search that any thing hitherto hath madeit apparent that Baronies were ever annexed to the Possessions of the Bishops but Men have generally taken it for granted that they were so They say that William the first soon after his Reception to the Crown of England did introduce new Tenures and established Counties and Baronies and did then order that Bishops and the Parliamentary Clergy should hold per Baroniam or sicut Baroniam which the Learned Mr. Selden saith in the language of those Times signified the same thing For he saith that tenere de Rege in capite and habere possessiones sicut Baroniam and to be a Baron according to the Laws of those Times are synonimous Seld. Tit. Hon. part 2. pag. 704 Cook Hakewell and others say they hold per Baroniam But the Proofs any that I have met with offer to make good this Division by William or that Tenure per Baroniam did infer more when a minor Baron in my Judgment are not cogent What they urge is taken out of Wendover and from him transcribed by Matth. Paris He first greatly blaming the Act of William hath these Words Episcopatus Abbatias omnes quae Baronias tenebant catenus ab omni servitute saeculari libertatem habuerant sub servitute statuit militars irrotulans singulos Episcopatus Abbatias pro voluntate suâ quot Milites sibi successoribus suis Hostilitatis tempore voluit a singulis exhiberi That is He established under Military Service all Bishopricks and Abbeys which held Baronies and at that time had freedom from all Secular Service inrolling them all and appointing according to his Pleasure what Souldiers in time of War they should severally find unto him and his Successors Mr. Selden finding the contradiction in these Words that their Baronies which should have kept them as he thought free from Secular Service as the words import were the only thing that bound them to it thinks there ought to be a Parenthesis after Baronias in purâ perpetuâ eleemosina eatenus ab omni servitio saeculari c. and makes the words run thus All Bishops and Abbeys that held Baronies in Frankalmoign and in that respect freed from all Secular Service c. And backs this Conjecture by the Authority of Mr. Cambden who he conceives might have seen some Copy where those words were But he need not have put himself to the trouble of that Conjecture had he translated eatenus at that time as the word signifies and never that I know in that respect However finding further that this would not take away all doubt because the words refer not to all Bishopricks and Abbeys but to such only as then possessed
Baronies for ought appears of elder time which he denies any did before the time of William the first of which perhaps more anon doth believe that this Tenure was enacted by some Parliament in William's time preceding to this whose Journals or Records are now lost yet adds for a further Proof the Authority of an ancient Manuscript in his hand belonging it seems to the Abbey of Ramsey of Matth. Paris where over the Year 1070 are inserted these Words In this Year the Servitium Baroniae was imposed upon Ramsey This perhaps might equally concern other Abbies yet seems but a weak Proof of the matter in question as to the Bishops did not somewhat in Ingulphus and the subsequent Practice give some Light to the Business But neither Laws nor Practice ought to be forced or stretched to a greater Latitude than the natural Construction of the Words will bear It cannot reasonably be denied but that in the Times of our Ancestors when Learning in Lay-men was very rare that the Clergy bare a great sway in the Councils of Princes and Great Men who busied themselves in little more then Feats of Arms and Hospitality But the Clergy a wary and vigilant sort of People guided by the subtile Heads of Rome under whose Banner they always fought what under pretences of Piety Satisfaction for Sins commited Redemption of Souls out of Purgatory and what not captivated the Consciences and drained the Purses of most of the ignorant Multitude Nay so holy was their Function and so sacred their Persons that no Secular Tribunal was by them thought sanctified enough to question their Actions but they still pressed to be remitted to their own or by their Appeals to Rome frustrated the Designs of the Civil Magistrate William the first being desirous to put a stop to this exorbitant Pride and growing Power of these Men and yet not disgrace their Calling did as before is mentioned out of Mat. Paris ordain that the Clergy should not be wholly exempted from all Secular Service and probably might before that have altered their Tenure which most-what before was in Frankalmoign unto the Tenure in capite sicut Baroniam or in the nature of a Barony by which they were made subject to such Services as Tenants in cap. per Baroniam were tyed unto and were called to Parliaments and sate among the other Noble-Men and the Barons Peers being first summoned thereunto by the King 's Writ Most Men have considered the Nobilitas Major or those who constituted the House of Peers under a threefold Relation First as made Earls or Barons by Creation and an actual Ceremony of investure of Robes and a succeeding Charter and Writ to attend in Parliament when summoned The Charter comprehended some Limitation how the Honour should go or else some Pension to the Barons to support their Dignity and Title of which you may see more Examples in Mr. Selden's Tit. of Hon. Part 2. Cap. 5. Such I conceive was that Charter made by King Stephen to Mandevile Earl of Essex and renewed again by Maud the Empress the like was that of Miles Earl of Hertford granted by Maud and renewed by Hen. II. which Charter only served to convey the third penny of the County Now these Charters being usual as to Earls which was the highest Degree at that time and an actual Ceremony being also used in the making of Knights which was the lowest degree of Honour I see no reason but to believe that the same Ceremony of Invetisture was used to Barons which was the middle Degree Some Light is given to this by considering the Charter granted to the Lord Iohn Beauchamp of Holt. where the words are Ipsum Iohannem in unum Parium Baronum Regni nostri Angliae praefecimus volentes quod idem Johannes haeredes masculi de Corpore suo exeuntes statum Baronis obtineant ac Domini de Beauchamp Barones de Kiddermister nuncupenter In cujus rei Testimonium c. Here being in this Charter no words of Creation but all in the Praeterperfect Tense we have promoted must refer to some Act done before and this Charter served only to limit how the Estate should go Mr. Seld. Tit. Hon. Part 2. Cap. 5. p. 747. I edit in fol. I know reckons this as the first Creation of a Baron by Patent but doth not observe the words nor his own Subsequent Patents made to others where the words are in the Present Tense and constituent of the Honour granted viz. Praficimus constituimus creamus we do create promote and appoint Neither can I imagine what Right those Ancient Barons of which we have yet some left who were so before Rich. II. have to come this day in Robes had not their Ancestors been invested with them in their Creation and different from those of Earls Now this as it was the most ancient so was it the most honourable way of conferring Honours so was it also the most noble by which their Blood was not only enobled but also all other Rights and Priviledges competible to that Degree were given unto them and certainly we must make some difference between one made a Peer of the Kingdom by Charter and one so called in ordinary Speech of which Name no Man in the Kingdom but is in some sense capable we being all Peers to those of our own Degree Now of these Peers thus enobled by the Invetisture of Robes some were called to Parliament by Writ after the Ceremony of Invetisture had been performed and had never any Patent to limit the descent of the Honour Such had their Honour in fee-simple and it went to the Heirs general of which we have many Examples where the Sole Daughter and Heir of such a Baron hath not only conveyed the Honour to her Descendents but enjoyed the Title herself during Life Amongst many I will only instance in one Charles Longuevile Son and Heir to Susanna Heir general to the Barony de Grey of Ruthin left only one Daughter named Susanna Charles her Father was received in Parliament in his Robes in the latter end of King Charles the first his Reign he dying left the foresaid only Daughter who after his Death married Sir Henry Yelverton of Easton Manduit in Northamptonshire Baronet Sir Henry died leaving Sir Charles Yelverton Baronet his Son and Heir then a Minor Susanna enjoyed the Honour during her Life and at her Death left Charles still under Age who immediately possessed the Honour and at his full Age was called by Writ sate in his Robes in Parliament till he died which happened soon after his Age of twenty one without any issue leaving the Honour to Henry his Brother and Heir yet alive and under Age. See Sir William Dugdale's History of the Baronage Title Lord Grey first Part pag. 718 719. The second way by which some have conceived Barons were made hath been by Writ only without any other Formality or Ceremony whatsoever and of this
Times it may appear plainly that their yielding Obedience to the known Laws of the Kingdom in matters of Appeal appearing and answering in the King's Courts though it were the ancient Usage and Custom of the Realm was the thing that most vexed them and not how far their Presence was required in cases of Blood brought into Parliament in which they were contented to be limited by the Usage of that Court and to afford or forbear their Presence according to that Obligation which was incumbent upon them from the Canons of the Church invigorated by the constant Usage of the Nation If therefore I can make it good that the Bishops had no Right to be present in the Debate and handling matters of Blood and that that was the known Law and the Sense of this Act now before us and of the subsequent Protestation in 11. of R. 2. I shall think my self competently safe though some seeming Precedents and Records should be brought against me for it is the Law must be the Measure and Standard of our Actions and not always Records the Reasons whereof are sometimes obscure and the matter it self many times shortly rehearsed and not always legal I must confess this Author hath much laboured to fix a Sense upon this Article subservient to his Purpose but the more he struggles the more he is intangled 'T is worth Observation that four or five I suppose different Persons have written in the Defence of the Bishops Right to vote in Capital Causes in Parliament and having all of them a necessity to say something to this Law of Clarendon do all of them give different Interpretations of the meaning of it a great Argument of a weak Cause The first whose Title is The Honour of the Lords Spiritual c. I presume being satisfied with the general Sense which was put upon these Constitutions from all times from which it is always unsafe to vary and perceiving that those illegal Priviledges granted to them by King Stephen were by the reviving the Laws of Henry the First abolished doth ingeniously confess in three places pag. 26. at the end of the sixth Chapter and in the same page at the beginning of the seventh Chap. That at Clarendon their Wings were indeed much clip'd yet the Priviledge of sitting and voting in Parliament is left intire to them and tho' they never of late voted in Capital Cases yet they have ever made their Proxies as he hopes to make appear In Chapter the seventh he hath these words We confess as before for that they were Spiritual Persons they were not to sit in Capital Causes and loss of Limb but adds that long before they had exercised this Power By which Words it appears that in the Judgment of that Author whatever their Power and Practice was before yet that now by the Laws of Henry the First recognized at this Parliament at Clarendon that Power was taken away and not since practised That they had such Power before he endeavours to prove out of Compton and Spelman neither of which Authors make good any more than that the Bishop was Assessor with the Earl in the County-court which was only to advise him in point of Conscience not much unlike the Offices of our Surrogates who sit in consistory with the Bishops Chancellor in whom we know resides all the Power That this is so appears by the Laws of Edgar put out by Mr. Lambert who in his fifth Chapter hath these Words Centuriâ—… comitâ—…is quisqueâ—…t antea praescribitur interesto Celeberrimus autem ex omni Saâ—…ia bis quotannis conventus agitor cui cuidem illius Diocesis Episcopus senator intersunto quorum alter jura divina alter humana populum edoceto By which we see 't was the Office of the Bishop to direct the People in Divine Laws as it was of the Senator or Earl to teach them Humane of the same Opinion is Sir Edward Coo. 2 Instit. p. 488. Stat circumspecte agatis Lastly Chap. 8. pag. 32. he mentions the Council at Westminster that in regard they might not Agitare judicium sanguinis they had many times forborn to meddle in such Matters The whole Chapter is concerning Bills of Attainder now whether he meant that in such cases they did sometime absent themselves let himself explain This Author not fore-seeing the Advantage would be made of these Constitutions or else hoping to help himself upon the Power they had to make Proxies doth ingeniously confess the Truth but is deserted by all those of his Side who follow him The Author of the Rejoinder p. 5. tells you that the Constitutions of Clarendon permit the Bishops to be present and vote till it comes to loss of Life or Member which is not till the passing of Sentence upon the Prisoner I believed the loss of Life and Member was the Execution and if they may be there and vote till then they may be present as long as any other for when that is given all go away but if his Meaning be that they should go away when the Sentence is to be pronounced the precedent Words will not bear that Construction so that according to him this is rather an imping than clipping the Wings of the Bishops as the former Author affirmeth Beside this Exposition is contrary to the Votes of the Lords who tell you they must go away when their Lordships proceed to voting Guilty or Not Guilty which is before the definitive Sentence which is always given in the Presence of the Prisoner the other not Vide Iournal of Parl. pag. 258. 15 Maii 1679. in which they explained a former Vote made by their Lordships 13 Maii 1679. in which they had voted that the Lords Spiritual had Right to stay in Court in Capital Cases till Sentence or Judgment of Death came to be pronounced by which you see the House of Lords have disowned that Sense our late Interpreters would put upon the Words of this Constitution though themselves before had given colour to that Interpretation Our third Author intituled The Rights of the Bishops fairly passeth over this Law only tells you that a Bishop pronounced Sentence against Becket in case of Treason as Fitztephen a grave Author saith and farther tells you That though the Prince may indulge many Priviledges to his Clergy as this of not compelling them to vote in Parliament in cases of Blood where by the Canon Law they are prohibited yet that Law must yield to the Law of the Land but how if the Canon Law be part of the Law of the Land what 's then to be done which cannot devest the King of his Right of using his Subjects Clerks or not in any Places or Employments he shall think fit to employ them in or in which he may think them capable of doing Him or the Publick any Service This I confess is plain dealing and I wish it were not too much the Sense of some of our greatest Clerks that let the
Ricard Archbishop of Canterbury thought fit to have received here and I think would inferr that here was no more done then a Proposal of this to be received not that itw as so But if we will believe Gervas Dorbernensis in 22 H. 2 fo 1429. An. 1175. he will tel you they went much farther His Words are Hoc concilio ad emendationem ecclesiae Anglicanae assensu Domini Regis Primorum omnium Regni haec promulgata sunt capitula Among which one is His qui in sacris ordinibus constituti sunt judicium sanguinis agitare non licet unde prohibemus ne aut perse membrorum truncationes faciant aut inferendas judicent Here is not only a Proposition of the Arch-bishop but an Assent and Promulgation of the same by the King and chief of the Kingdom And the true Sense of that Canon which being so confirm'd had the force of a Law is That Clergy-men should not agitare or medle in any Tryal of Blood which certainly extends to Preliminaries but are prohibited to make Amputations themselves or give their Opinion or Judgment that such Amputations ought to be made by others Their presence at such Trials was unlawfull Non licet and their Acting prohibited So at last I have done with this clause and have shewd that it is not indulgent but restrictive that it was a custom in H. 1. time sworn to at Clarendon published at Westminster 12 years after and by all this made part of the Law of the Nation have answered all his Subterfuges and Evasions have shewed the Interpretation I have given was always received I expect now so much Ingenuity in this Author that he will either yield to my Sense or give another agreeable to the Rules of Grammar and the proper Signification of the Words and not take the Liberty to explain them at his Pleasure and confound Voices Moods and Numbers Insomuch that this Statute will remain Testimonium irrefragabile still and I am sure if he observes his due bounds he must give an Interpretation equipollent to to what I have given So hard it is for the greatest Wits to maintain an ill Cause I come now to the Consideration of the Protestation made in the Parliament held in 11. R. 2. which our Author saith much cleareth the whole Business especially the preface therof for the omission of which he blames the Author of the Letter I shall give it you in English which our Author hath not thought fit to do and by that means deprived many of his Readers of means to make a true Judgment of it In the Name of God Amen For as much as by the Law and Custom of the Kingdom of England it belongs to the Arch-bishop of Canterbury for the time being as also to the rest of his Suffragans Fellow-Brethren and Fellow-Bishops with the Abbots Priors and other Prelats whatever who hold of the King by Barony as Peers of the foresaid Kingdom to be personally present in the Parliaments of the King whatsoever and there with the rest of the Peers and others that have right to be there present concerning the arduous Affairs of the Nation and concerning other things there usualy to be treated of to Consult Treat Ordain Appoint and Define and other things to do which there in time of Parliament are prepared or fitted to be done In all and singular of which We William Arch-bishop of Canterbury Primate of England and Legate Apostolical for our selves our Suffragans our Felow-Bishops and Fellow-Brethren as also for the Abbots Priors and all the foresaid Prelates do protest and every one of them doth protest who either by himself or his Proctor shall be here Present at this time publickly and expresly that we intend and every one of us will in this present Parliament and others as Peers of the fore-said Kingdom after our accustomed manner be present to Consult Treat Ordain and Define and all other things ro exercise together with the rest that have right to be present in the same The Condition State and Order of us and every one of us being still saved But for as much as in this present Parliament some matters are to be treated of in which it is not lawful for us or any of them according to the Decrees of the Holy Church and the Canons thereof to be at any hand personally present For which Reason we for our selves and for every of them do protest and every one of them here doth also protest That we intend not nor will because according to the Law we cannot nor ought not be present in this present Parliament whilst such matters are or shall be treated of but that we and every one of them will upon that occasion all together absent our selves our right of Peerage and of theirs as to our and their being present in the said Parliament and as to our and every of their exercising and doing all and singular things our and their order in all things allways preserved And we farther protest and every one of them protesteth that by reason of this our absence we do not intend neither doth any one of them intend or will that the Trials or Proceedings had or to be had in this present Parliament upon those aforesaid matters in which we cannot nor ought not as is premised be present as much as in us lyes or any of them lyes shall in times to come be any way impugned weakened or broken He tells you that this Protestation saving the legall Formalities consists of three parts First a declaration of their undoubted Right as Peers of the Realm by virtue of their Baronies to sit and Vote in all Debates in Parliament Where by the way the words are de Regni negotiis not omnibus of the affairs of the Kingdom not all of them and aliquibus may as well be understood as omnibus and this appears soon after upon their own shewing for they tell you they intend to be present in this and all other Parliaments and presently after tell you it is not lawful for them to be present in this Parliament while such matters were handled to intend to be present and then tell you that 't is not lawful to be present in this Parliament shews that their Power was limited and not universal however upon this Protestation they went out at the Begining and made no Proctor for they tell you they ought not to be personally present at any hand where such Affairs are or would be treated of which certainly was before the definitive sentence so that the Canon required their absence at Preliminaries according to the sense of all times till these new expounders came in place I will not here dispute whether this Protestation be an act of Parliament with Submission to better Judgments I think it hard that what was intended as a Protestation should by Construction be advanced to an Act no more than his present Majesties Concessions upon the desire of
provincial that have been by common Use allowed shall be of force and not to be taken away but by Act of Parliament Now himself confesses that the Canons are against him then may I well conclude that the Law is against him since all Canons then in use are part of the Law at present Page 68. He tells you the Sanction of this Law which was Irregularity is now ceased and that some of our most learned Judges have declared that is taken away by the Reformation First I am to learn that Irregularity was the Sanction of the Law I always understood that the Sanction of a Law was the matter established by it obedience to which was required under the Penalty of Irregularity but I will not stand upon that which if true would open a door to disanul all Laws made under a Penalty by pardoning that But the fore-going Statute of 25 H. 8. cap. 21. clearly shews that all Canons accustomably used are still in force Who hath then taken off the Penalty If no body then their forbearance in Cases of Blood ought still to be observed in obedience to them Of this opinion were the Parliament both Lords and Commons in the Case of the Earl of Strafford whom this Author is pleased to honour with the name of a Cabal as also the Proclamation to call in my Lord Keeper Finch who was then fled both which were done in the Absence and after the Bishops were withdrawn and after William Bishop of Lincoln had given his opinion they ought so to do and are taken notice of by the Author of the Letter pag. 51 52 53. and by him very materially observed that that Proclamation against my Lord Finch was drawn by the Judges by order of the Lords Temporal after the old Parliamentary way from whence it is easie to infer that it was the old Parliamentary way for the Judges to draw up such Proclamations by Command of the Lords Temporal and that the Clergy medled not in those matters To all that hath been said to this purpose he hath either given no answer or what makes against him He tells you that my Lord of Canterbury was first named in Commission for the Tryal of the Queen of Scots This signifies little for here he was only a Commissioner but no Judge in Parliament Secondly That though the Queen could not dispense with the Law in general as to all Individuals yet to any one she might and the express naming him a Commissioner might amount to a Dispensation Thirdly though the Arch-bishop was named yet he was not present at the Tryal whose Names you may see in Cambden's Annals anno 1586. and therefore the Canon was observed for what other reason could be given for his refraining that Service but because by it he might have become irregular I shall add one or two Authorities more and so conclude the point Arch-bishop Abbot in King Iames his time hunting in one of his own Parks shooting at a Deer by an unfortunate Glance of his Arrow kill'd his Keeper much Debate there was whether this Act had made him irregular and that it did so was strongly argued by Williams Bishop of Lincoln then Lord Keeper who said that by the Canon-Law then in force he was ipso facto irregular Here you see the Canon-Law was then deemed in force and Irregularity to be by it contracted At last Commissioners were appointed to examine the business whose Names you may see in Rushworth both Divines Civilians and Common Lawyers After a full Debate they agreed he was not irregular for this was no Crime and therefore by Law could not contract Irregularity for by Law the Arch-bishop was allowed to hunt this accident being only Chance Medley could not bring any Guilt upon him But there was not the least Doubt made of the Canons being in force and that Punishment might be inflicted upon the Breakers of them Baker's Chron. pag. 446. who being then a man of good Age made this Relation upon his own knowledge This may serve in Answer to his Reflection upon Dr. Oates that he hath incurred Irregularity by his Discovery of the Horrid Plot not yet fully examined for this Discovery was but his Duty so far was it from being a Crime that it deserved and hath already found some Reward from his Majesty Of the same Opinion was Arch-bishop Laud with the rest in the Star-Chamber in the Censure of Dr. Leighton where Arch-bishop Laud would not suffer any corporal Punishment to be inflicted upon him until he was first degraded nor his Ears to be cropt in St. Paul's Church-yard because the Ground was consecrated now Degradation and Consecration of Places are the Fruits of the Canon-Law Lastly one Madie was in the High Commission Court Pas. 4 Car. 1. declared irregular and deprived for the same having first as was alledged preached after Suspension By all which it plainly appears that Irregularity may be incurred at this day and therefore those Canons not against the King's Prerogative nor consequently taken away by the Act of 25 Hen. 8. but that Irregularity may still be contracted by the breach of them I have now done with his two first Chapters which contain the substance of his whole Book and have shewed First that it is not clear that Bishops were Barons otherwise than by Appellation that they were never enobled in Blood that no Instrument can be produced what Baronies were annexed to their several Possessions whose Bishopricks have the Title common to other Noblemen as Lincoln Carlisle Bath Worcester York and others which is not usual that one should be Duke or Earl and another Baron of the same place beside the superfetation of Baronies by dividing one Bishoprick into several Baronies But that it is much more reasonable to believe that their Tenure in Cap. by Baronage Service which was imposed upon them as a burthen not an honour might cause them to be called to Parliament as Barones minores lesser Barons but not left out at the King's Pleasure as the lesser Barons were because they were to summon the Clergy to Convocation Secondly I have made it apparent that the Convocation is properly the third Estate in Parliament of which they constitute the upper House and not other than a part of a third Estate among the Lords Thirdly Admitting they were a third Estate in the Lords House entire as some think there could be no colour for their Tryal of a Noble-man who is a Member of another Estate Fourthly the Canons of the Council of Toledo were not the first cause of their absenting themselves in cases of Blood Fifthly I have vindicated the Parliament at Clarendon from all his Exceptions and made it very plain by the natural construction of the Words as well as by the Interpretation of his own Author Fitz-Stephens they are not to be present at any Consultations or Debates where the end may be Blood and that the Proceedings in the Council at
Northampton make fully against him as also his Fancy that the Bishops had Right to be present till the definitive Sentence concerning Blood was to be given is against the Opinion of both Houses in the last Parliament Sixthly I have shewed that the Protestation made 11 Richard the Second if it were not a Law was a solemn Confession by themselves that the Canon-Law was against them and further given great Probability that there was in it respect had to the established Law of the Kingdom Seventhly I prove that the Canons are still in force that they are a part of the Law of England and not to be annulled but by act of Parliament and that Irregularity is not taken away by the Reformation Lastly I have given clear Answers to all his pretended Authorities and Reasons urged in his second Chapter and shewed that they are either not to the Purpose or misapplyed or against him I should now come to examine his Precedents in his third Chapter and assert the manner of Tryal of Bishops by common Juries but that is fully done by the learned Author of the Discourse of Peerage and for Precedents if there were any as I think there are not yet the Law being against him they would signifie little Yet least he should think himself neglected I shall in the next Chapter take them into Consideration CHAP. III. I Will not be long in the Examination of his Precedents because in my Opinion the Lords in the last Parliament have determined the Controversie For our Author contends that the Bishops have Right to be present till the definitive Sentence comes to be given and longer if they please for he sets them at Liberty Now the Lords in their explanatory Votes made May 15. 1679. have declared That the Bishops have Right to sit in Court till the Court proceed to the Vote of Guilty or Not Guilty Tho' this their Lordships have now admitted be a Liberty greater than I think their Predecessors ever enjoyed who in Cases of Blood went out at the beginning yet this Vote takes from them all Power Judicature as Peers to the Lords for it gives them no Liberty to pass any Vote but only allows them to sit as Spectators but reserves the Judgment to themselves I perceive this Author is not willing to give much credit to the Relation of Brompton touching what he reporteth of the King 's appealing Earl God-win of the Death of his Brother I will not concern my self in this matter it being before the Conquest and a Story in which the Relaters much differ some say 't was at the Table others in Council why not in both next his Appeal is to the Earls and Barons I wonder our Author doth not say that the Bishops were here meant by Barons For if there were then no Barons some others must be comprehended under that name and not long after our Author tells you the Bishops were comprehended under that Name in the case of Hamel Vid. Leg. Edvar conf cap. 8. nono de decimis apibus where the Name Barons is used before the Conquest I will not give overmuch credit to this Relation of Brompton the rather because William of Malmsbury looks upon it as a Romance for he saith Rumigeruli spargunt Cronica tacent Yet perhaps Brompton's Authority may go hand in hand with Fitz-Stephen But admitting the Story had some Truth in it his Endeavour to prove the Bishops present is not unpleasant He tells you after the Conversion of Ethelbert they were never absent in any Councils of the Nation that were Publick and that there was then no Canon to be afraid of for the Council of Toledo was brought in by Lanfrank some time after First he assumes a Negative they were never absent which cannot be proved except by one who had lived all those times Next he tells you they had no Canon to be afraid of it seems they lived then without Rule I do not believe this Author would have them do so still Thirdly he saith that Council of Toledo take the first or the eleventh the last of them about five hundred years before was first brought in by Lanfrank I think the substance of that Council was observed before but not established as a Canon till the Synod at Westminster of which I have spoke before The Story of the Arch-bishops condemning Queen Emma might be as true as that other of Godwin and both Romantick but however he tells you the Bishops did certainly sit in the County-Courts at all Judgments What their Office was in those Courts I have told you before out of the Laws of Alfred as also you may find the same in Sir Henry Spelman's Gloss. verb. Comes pag. 140 141. where he at large discourses of the Causes to be tryed in those Courts and tells you they were only for the ease of the Poor and things of small value and that the great and powerful men had their Tryals in the Kings Courts and more to the same purpose which the Reader may peruse if he see good and in part are transcribed by the Author of the Letter pag. 108 109 110. Now let any man judge whether the Opinion of Sir Henry Spelman or his Conjecture of Capitalia placita and the Legend of Saint Cuthbert be of most Credit The Author of the Letter tells you that no Capital Crimes were triable in the County-Court But our Author tells us out of the Laws of Edw. the Confes. set out by Henry the first mention is made of Capitalia placita cap. 31. The Title of the Chapter is De Capitalibus Placitis The words follow In summis capitalibus placitis unus Hundredus aut comitatus judicetur à duobus non unus duos judicet Sic inter judices studia diversa sunt ut alii sic alii aliâ—…er fuisse tendunt vincat sententia meliorum cui justicia magis acquieverit Interesse comitatui debent Episcopi Comites caeterae potestates qui dei leges seculi negotia justâ consideratione diffiniant Recordatione curiae Regis nulli negare licet alias licebit per intelligibiles homines placiti nemo de Capitalibus placitis testimonio convincatur c. Unusquisque per pares suos judicandus est In this obscure Law there is nothing at all that sounds like a Tryal in Criminal Matters except our Author will say that in such Cases no man shall be convicted by Witnesses when there is no other way to try matter of Fact except his own Confession for the Words are that no man may be convicted by Testimony Next it is plain Summa and Capitalia placita are joyned together one explaining the other so that I conceive nothing more is meant than considerable Cases where the matter in Law was dubious to the Judges who were not one Bishop and one Earl but Bishops Earls and other great men and the Judgment was not to be given according to the major
but of the better Opinion of such as were the Judges The Records of the Court were not to be denyed to any man others it seems might by understanding men concerned in the Cause The meaning of the Law I take to be that Cases of Right might be tryed here of any Value but criminal Cases were not medled withall I remember not to have read any where that Capitalia placita had that Signification our Author suggests Placita Coronae Placita Parliamentaria and Placita Communia I have met with but Capitalia Placita for Placita Capitalium criminum is new to me However the meaning of that be yet the Manuscript Life of Saint Cuthbert as to the thing it self will help us out He tells you it may be with as much Truth as Brompton that one Hamel the Son of Earl Godwin being imprisoned by the Earl of Northumberland his Friends earnestly interceded with the Earl that he might not loose his Head Here indeed we find a man imprisoned by an Earl Application made to the Earl in his behalf no mention of any Bishop any Tryal or any farther Proceeding in the business but the Tryal and the Bishops Presence at it are both supplyed by our Author who hath proved neither or produced greater Proof than the Authority of a loose Legend and that lame too and yet upon this he triumphs as if the Point were clearly gained when there is nothing of what he would have made good by him Is it not now a thousand Pities that so well sounding Words so well put together should signifie nothing The next Precedent our Author takes into Consideration is that of Nicholas Segrave cited by the Author of the Letter pag. 55. by this Author pag. 76. which he would evade by supposing the Bishops might be comprehended under the Name of Magnates or Counsellors and shews that some of the Bishops were probably then of his Counsel For a clear Answer to these Surmises I shall give you shortly the whole Case as you shall find it at large inter placita Parlam 33 Ed. 1. Riley pag. 266. Nicholas Segrave had Summons by the Sheriff and the Command of the King to answer to such things as should be objected against him and to hear and stand to what the Curia Domini Regis to wit the Parliament consideraret in praemissis Segrave upon this Summons Venit in pleno Parliamento in praesentiâ ipsius Domini Regis Arch. Cantuariensis plurimorum Episcopor Comitum Baronum aliorum de Consilio Regis tunc ibidem existentium Nicholas de Warwick perhaps the King's Atturney accuseth him of many and great Crimes which he offers to prove Segrave confesseth all submits to the King de alto basso Et super hoc Dom. Rex volens habere avisamentum Comitum Baronem Magnatum aliorum de consilio suo injunxit eisdem in Homagio fidelitate ligeantia quibus ei tenentur quod ipsum fideliter consulerent qualis poena pro tali facto sic cognito fueri infligenda The Comites Barones Magnates c. adjudge him worthy of Death After this the King pardons him and orders him to put in seven Sureties and to render himself a Prisoner at the King's Command and to be accountable to the King for the Issues of his Land held in his own or his Wifes Name This in short is the Case of Segrave in which it is very clear that at the Accusation the Bishops were present as of Right they might be but at the Tryal they are omitted Now to suppose them comprehended under a general Name and out of Order who were particularly expressed when their Presence was lawful is both unusual and unreasonable unusual because it is against the Rule of Law to comprehend the greater after the Nomination of the lesser and so to take the Bishops under the name of great Men who are constantly first named and were so here at the Beginning Secondly 't is unreasonable to make a different Construction of the same Words in different Cases or Laws now we know that in the Statute de Asportatis Religiosorum the Words are Comites Barones Magnates where we know the Bishops were not comprehended under the Name Magnates nor ought to be here and to suppose the contrary is against the Current of all Acts of Parliament and Records By the Magnates and alii de Consilio were meant the Judges and other Counsellors at Law whose Advice the King required as was very just and usual in those times 'T is likewise observable that the Word Consilio is written with an s which shews those Counsellors he advised with were not necessarily Members of Parliament for then the Word would have been written with a c Concilio His remarkable Precedent of the D'Spencers will stand him in as little stead in the Reign of Edward the Second they were both condemned and the Exilium Hugonis D'Spencer is to be seen in the old Natura brevium Those Judgments were afterward reversed at York in 15 Edward the Second but in 1 Edward the Third the first Judgments were affirmed and so they were look'd upon as condemned Persons which continued though themselves were dead for above seventy years til by the prevailing Party in 21 Richard the Second that Act was again called in question as void in regard the Bishops were absent and the Bishops desired to make a Proctor by the Commons which they accordingly did but at last through their exorbitant Proceedings that whole Parliament was repealed in 1 Henry the Fourth To this I have largely spoken before to which I shall refer the Reader with this farther Advertisement that in troublesome times things are not always carryed as they ought to be wherefore we are not always to look at what was but what ought to have been done neither are we to be governed by seeming Precedents such as sometimes as in the Case of Ship-money may be produced against Law I have before made it manifest that the Canons of the Church long before Lanfrank's time forbad Clergy-men to meddle either in Blood or secular Employments neither is it reasonable to believe the Laws of this Land were different from the general Rule incumbent upon all Clergy-men to observe especially when we see the Immunities granted them by King Stephen were so early recalled by Henry the Second and the Constitutions then made at Clarendon look'd upon as the ancient Customs of the Nation insomuch that the Discourser had very good reason to say 't was the common Usage which is the common Law of England Pag. 88. Our Author comes to the Examination of those Records urged against him and his Exceptions in general are First That they are Negative the Bishops were not present at Tryals of Blood therefore they had no Right to be present Secondly They were sometimes absent when they were not prohibited therefore their Absence was voluntary Thirdly they are sometimes comprehended under the
and Royalties and themselves Barons both blaming and threating them from God for so doing and involving themselves in Secular Matters This Author flourished in the time of Hen. II. ancient enough to know the truth and how they were look't upon in those days Moreover I do not find it can be made appear except conjecturally that they were ever present where they were not first named The Honour of their Function makes them be called before Dukes and Earls and being by that reason Pralati leâ—… no Man deprive them of their Right and by Post-Position make them post Lati. Lastly This Person being executed in 4 Edw. 3. as appears by the Record in 28 E. 3. Cot. p. 85. without any Accusation or Answer makes me believe the Bishops being Men of Piety would not by their Prefence countenance so illegal a thing tho they had had Right without entring their Protestation manifesting their dislike of it neither do I believe their Spirits so humble to suffer a Post-Position of their Titles But this whole matter will I conceive be better cleared if I shall acquaint the Reader with something more concerning this Roger Earl of March than hath yet come to this learned Person 's Knowledg In 5 Edw. 3. the very next Year after the summary Judgment was given against Mortimer and Matrevers a Commoner at the Complaint of the King we find inter Brevia Baronibus direct 5 E. 3. m. 33. penes rememorat Dom. Regis in Sâ—…cio that those Judgments were per Comites Barones alios Pares Regni not a Syllable of the Prelates nor can the word alios take them in since in the whole current of Records the Prelates were never placed after Earls and Barons And the alij Pares were either such as might be extraordinarily summoned an usual Practice at that time or they were the Barons Peers viz. Barones Minores besides the succeeding words clear the Point For there was in 4 E. 3. an Agreement and Concordia made by the Lords and Commons that such Proceedings should not for the future be drawn into Example to judg Commoners to death upon Summary Articles without any Concurrence from them Now this Concord was made by the Temporal Lords not by the Prelates but per nos Pares praedictos nec non Communitatem Regni in eodem Parliamento Now in 4 E. 3. the Reference was made to the Earls and Barons the Peers to whom of right such Judgments belonged and no Prelates comprehended and here they are called Pares praedicti Add to this Rot. Parl. 13 E. 3. Numb 8. Le grant des Graunts where an Aid was granted to the King then in war with France The Record saith Les Countes Barouns esteantzen dit Parlement Granteront pour eiix pour leur Peers de la terre qui teignent per Baronie la desme garb la disme tuzon la disme Aignel de touts leur demaignes Terres Now if the Prelates were understood by the word Peers in this place then it must be granted that the Earls and Barons taxed the Prelates who always taxed themselves and the inferiour Clergy in Convocation But the succeeding words will clear the matter which run thus in the same Record Et pour ceo quil fu aviis as Prelatez Countes Barouns autres Graunts que pour les ploite des besognes c. the Record is touching a speedy Supply to the King Here we see where the Bishops were concerned they were named which shews they were no more comprehended under Peers before than under the word Magnates in this Clause I could multiply Records to this purpose and am confident no clear Example can be given where they were necessarily comprehended after Counts and Barons The next Authority he quotes to weaken the Authority of those he calls Negative Precedents is the case of the Murther of Iohn Imperiall a publick Minister sent from Genoa This Case I conceive is not truly stated by the Author of the Letter and misapplied by the Grand Questionist The Point in question in the Record was what Offence the Murther of this publick Minister was which matter was referred to the Judges for their Advice who agreed that it was Treason within the Statute of 25 E. 3. This their Judgment was confirmed in Parliament whilst the Doubt was in Agitation among the Judges 't was not material who was there But after they had given their Sense what was meant by this Confirmation in Parliament is the next Question Whether more were meant than an approving of the Opinion given by the Judges by them drawn up in form and this may well be the meaning of that whole Proceeding which Practice is usual in our days but cannot be called a Judgment in Parliament tho it might be their Opinion But if you will rather believe it to be by Act of Parliament then must the Commons be Parties of whom we hear no mention nor any Statute to that purpose extant that I can find and in that Case the Bishops might have been present if they would and whether they were or not is not material Vid. Cot. 3. R. 2. N. 38. p. 183. Yea in Acts of Parliament when the Sentence comes to be given they are to withdraw as it was held by Mr. Edward Bagshaw a learned Reader of the middle Temple who for some Opinions by him held touching the Bishops was by the Power of Arch-bishop Laud suspended from proceeding in his reading Rushw. Hist. Coll. Tom. 2. p. 990. The next Precedent is in 5 E. 3. Which in conclusion will do him as little Service as the former The Author of the Letter pag. 7 8. tells us that that Parliament was summoned for redress of the Breach of the Law and the Peace of the Kingdom and the Record saith further that 't was to consult touching Lands in Guienne and the Marriage of the King in which the Bishops went away and returned no more I confess I know no reason but they might have staid it seems they thought otherwise being in all likelihood privy to some Actions to be treated there wherein Sentence of Blood might be pronounced But be their reason what you will their words are these Et pour ceo que avisefust a les dits Prelates qu'il nattient proprement a eux de Counseiller de la gard de la paix de chastiment de tels malvois s'allerent mesmes les Prelates Which words do not only import that they voluntarily went away but that it did properly behove them not to be present in such matters or to give Counsel for the Punishment of such Crimes The same word is used in 1 Hen. 4. Cot. p. 392. where the King by the mouth of the Arch-bishop of Canterbury declares that the Commons in that Case were only Petitioners and that all Judgments belonged to him and the Lords belonged that is the Commons had no Right thereto so here nattient proprement is that
properly they had no Right thereto That all Judgments belonged to the King and Lords is only an Affirmation of the Arch-bishop but binds not the Commons See Posthu Cottoni p. 350. For I think it very plain that anciently the Commons as well as the Lords had their share in Judicature I shall touch some Records which the Reader may consult at leisure Rot. claus 12. E. 2. m. 5. in the Case of Hugh Audley and his Wife Margaret the Relict of Pierce Gaveston they petition'd to be restored to certain Lands given to Pierce A nostre Signure le Roy son Consâ—…l Prelatez Countes Barons del ' sa terre the Petition was brought into full Parliament and debated habito diligeâ—…i tractatu in pleno Parliamento tam per Prâ—…latos quam per Comites Barones totam Communitatem Regni Concordaâ—… Consideratum 't was ordained considered and agreed per Praelatos Comites Barones totâ—…m Communitatem Regni that all the King's Grants to the said Pierce Peter and his Wife should be revoked and the Deeds cancelled Et quod istud Iudicrum intretur in Rot. Parliament in Cancellariâ—… exinde â—…iur in scaccarium ad utrumque Bancum to be enrolled Nothing can be plainer than that this was a Judgment and no Act of Parliament and that not concerning Blood the Prelates concurred and that probably both Houses sate and voted together as one Body I shall add one Record more in a Capital Case and that is entred Rot. Patent 3 E. 3. pars prima me 33. The Case of Adam Orleton or Tarlton Bishop of Hereford and after of Worcester This Bishop was about 17 E. 2. convicted of Treason before Sir Henry Staunton and other Justices In 1 E. 3. he petitions that the Process and Record in which there was Error might be brought into Parliament and examined and he restored to his Estate Praetextu hujus petitionis mandatum fuit by a Writ Galfrido de Scroop who had the Record quod venire faceret recordum processum praedicta quae sunt in custodiâ suâ in pleuo Parliamenio where after he had assigned several Errors the Record concludes Et quia videtur Dom. Regi praefatis comitibus Proceribus Concilio Dom. Regis toti Communitati Regni convocatis ad Parliamentum quod praedictum recordum processus omnino erronea sunt rationibus praedictis concessum est quod eadem recorda processus adnullentur c. This was clearly a Judgment in Parliament in which the Commons were certainly present and that it was not an Act appears plainly for the Record was certified and Errors assigned and 't is worth observation that he did not assign for Error that he was before convicted by a common Jury but admitted it legal Next I think the Prelates were not Parties to the Reversal of the Judgment given in 17 E. 2. for it is coram Praefatis comitibus Proceribus c. though they were at the recital of the Errors neither is it much material for they might very well be Parties to the Examination of a Judgment in a Capital Case for whether they concurred either in affirming or reversing the Record that made them no Parties to the first Judgment but is only a Concurrence in Opinion that what before had been done by others was well or ill done by them I could cite many other Records where the Commons were present in Parliamentary Judgments but let these suffice But this may seem too large a Digression since I was upon the consideration of 5 E. 3. in which I say Secondly It doth not appear that this was an Advice taken up by themselves for the words are not fust avise par eux or ils furent d'avis it was thought fit by themselves but are et pour ceo que avis feust a eux that is because Advice was given them by others to go away they absented themselves probably in Obedience to those Laws which forbad their Presence And they returned no more saith the Author of the Letter p. 8. and the Advice was given by the Lords Temporal only No saith the Grand Questionist p. 102. The Bishops and Proctors of the Clergy went only into another Room to consult therein which was usual in those times I do not at all doubt but the Members of Parliament have several Rooms to retire to upon occasion but that in this Case they did go apart to consult and give Advice in this Business seems very unreasonable for any one to believe because they had but immediately before declared that the Consideration of such matters properly belonged not to them to meddle with and accordingly withdrew certainly no considerate Man will think they went to consult about what they in the same Breath said belonged not to them Besides we see the return of the Lords and Commons without any mention of the Bishops and the Advice given by them by the mouth of Sir Henry Beamont their Speaker which Advice was afterwards put into a Law and then the Prelates might be present tho they were not at giving the Advice For the Record saith It was enacted by the King Bishops Lords and Commons which then became a Law to which the Prelates might justly give their Consent in their Legislative Capacity whatever it concerned Where note that Sir Robert Cotton translates Grands Commons I think with good reason though carp't at by Mr. Prin in the Margine for we heard nothing of them before and soon after we find them named and undoubtedly concerned in all Proceedings before See Matth. Paris p. 55. Magnates Grands comprehends Counts Barons Knights or any other considerable Person together with many others which would be endless to quote Having before shewed that what our Author calls negative Precedents were not simply so and that the Author of the Letter had great reason to believe them absent where they were not named and where the Laws forbad their Presence especially having on his side the Authorities of 4 E. 3. Numb 1. of 1 H. 4. Numb 80. where the Temporal Lords assume unto themselves the power of judging Peers which Opinion is also made good by the late Votes of the Lords in Parliament May 15 1679. By the Case of Dr. Leighton in the Star-Chamber 6 Car. 1. It is evident that the Prelates were not look'd upon in the same sort that the Temporal Peers were for the Information against him was for writing a scandalous Book against the King Queen Peers and Prelates where Peers and Prelates are contra-distinguished and not taken synonymously as may be gathered by the Sentence and being another Body were judged as Peers to one another not to the Temporal Lords I come now to the Consideration of what he saith pag. 90. he there alledges that many of those the Author of the Letter calls Negative Precedents if they prove any thing prove too much for some of them admit they were not present
of settled Prerogative were not taken away from the King he not being named in the Statute By that Statute indeed if a Tenant in Capite aliened with Licence the Alience became Tenant in Capite for the Statute divided the Signiory But how it could be at the Common Law in any other Case than that of Copartners who are but as one Heir and plac'd in the same Relation to the Lord I cannot imagine I find in the Statute of Ireland this of Copartners is mentioned as the Law of England In Regno nostro Angliae talis est Lex Consuetudo quod siquis tenuerit de nobis in Capite habuerit Filias heredes ipso patre defuncto antecessores nostri habuerunt semper nos habuimus cepimus homagium de omnibus hujusmodi Filiabus singulae earum tenerent de nobis in Capite in hoc Casu Which shews that the Case of Copartners being a single Instance of the continuance of the same immediate Service notwithstanding the division of the Fee was an Exception out of a general Rule But I dare say no body that understands any thing of the Feudal Law as it has been received in this or other Nations will be of Mr. Hunt's Opinion in this particular 3dly Mr. H. would have done well to have answered the Objections against the supposed Conquest before he concluded for it and I shall take it for granted 't is a Question heartily begg'd 'till I find an Answer to these Arguments in Ius Anglorum ab antiquo 1. That the Histories of those Times prove undeniably that William the first came in upon Terms which he swore to at his Coronation and solemnly confirmed afterwards This indeed was a Conquest in the Language of those times as 't was distinguish'd from an Hereditary Right but no otherwise Thus in King Iohn's time a Man pleads that his Father had such a thing de Conquestâ—… suo viz. by his own Purchase or Acquisition 2. That Dooms-day-Book it self demonstrates that Men enjoyed their Lands under their old Titles And those Laws of St. Edw. which the Histories assure us were confirmed by Compact with William the first without particular Confirmation of their Estates 3. That we have later Records of the allowance of Titles derived from before the Norman Acquisition nay even of the whole Palatinate of Chester the Title to which was laid only in Descent even after King William's Confirmation 4. That ancient Historians and Dooms-day-Book confirm the Opinion of that Judg in Edw. III. time who informs us that William the first disseized only them that were in Arms against him and forfeited by opposing that Title which the Nation received Till Mr. Hunt has answered these Arguments amongst others in Ius Anglorum ab antiquo I hope he will not be angry that some are so critical that they will not call the first William Conqueror especially since Conquestor and Conquestus cannot now be reduced to their old peaceable Signification And therefore are by no means to be admitted unless we take the sense of the Judicious Lord Clarendon who rebukes Mr. Hobbs for insisting upon William the first his Title by Conquest as being what he himself renounced and abdicated if he ever had it If Mr. Hobbs says that unhappy Great Man Had taken the pains and known where to have been informed of the Proceedings and Transactions of William the Conqueror he would have found Cause to believe that that great King did ever dexterously endeavour from the time that he was assured that his Possession would not be disturbed to divest himself of the Title of a Conqueror and made his legal Claim to what he had got by the Will of Edward the Confessor whose Name was precious to the Nation and who was known to have a great Friendship for that Prince who had now recovered what had been his And he knew so well the ill Consequence which must attend the very imagination that the Nation had lost its Propriety that he made haste to grant them an Assurance that they should still enjoy all the Benefits and Priviledges which were due to them by their own Laws and Customs By which they should be still governed as they were during that King's whole Reign who had enough of the unquestionable Demesnes and Lands belonging to the Crown of which he was then possest without a Rival and belonging to those Great Men who had perish'd with their Posterity in the Battel with Harold to distribute to those who had born such Shares and run such Hazards in his prosperous Adventure And those Laws and Customs which were before the Conquest are the same which the Nation and Kingdom have been since governed by to this day with the Addition of those Statutes and Acts of Parliament which are the Laws of the Successive Kings with which they have gratified their Subjects in providing such new Security for them and Advantages to the Publique as upon the Experience and Observation of the Ages and Times when they were made contributed to the Honour and Glory of the King as well as Happiness of the People Many of which are but the Copies and Transcripts of ancient Land-marks making the Characters more plain and legible of what had been practised and understood in the preceding Ages and the Observations thereof are of the same Profit and Convenience to the King and People And upon Mr. Hobbs his Supposition that William the first at his Reception had dispens'd with the Subjection of the Ecclesiasticks by the Oath he took not to infringe the Liberty of the Church The Lord Clarendon has to the same purpose with the former or rather as evidence that there was no colour of a Conquest these words They who know any thing of that time know that the Oath he took was the same and without any Alteration that all the former Kings since the Crown had rested on a single Head had taken which was at his Coronation after the Bishops and the Barons had taken their Oath to be his true and faithful Subjects The Arch-bishop who crowned him presented that Oath to him which he was to take himself which he willingly did to defend the holy Church of God and the Rectors of the same to govern the universal People subject to him justly to establish equal Laws and to see them justly executed Nor was he more wary in any thing than as hath been said before that the People might imagine that he pretended any other Title to the Government than by the Confessor tho it is true that he did by degrees introduce many of the Norman Customs which were found very useful or convenient and agreeable enough if not the same with what had been formerly practised And the common Reproach of the Laws being from time to time put into French carries no weight with it For there was before that time so rude a Collection of the Laws and in Languages so Forriegn to
258 to A a 263 wherefore the Point of Conquest examined and what improvement is made of the admittance of it 293 to 300 Constitutions of Clarendon expounded and the Bishops Wings clipt there 144 to 166 Convocation of the Clergy 81 82 127 137 S 290 Corporations an account of them and of their ancient Interest in Parliament 276 to 286 3d part Coventry its first Representation in Parliament B b 279 Crimes some that did laedere Majestatem Regiam not capital 172 in marg Curia Regis of various Acceptation 150 Curia Regis how far Mr. W. and Mr. Hunt agree with the Author against Dr. Brady as to its being distinct from the General Council of the Nation V 204 Objection against them where their Notion of it differs from the Authors 205 particular Objections against Mr. W's Notion of it 209 X 210 Mr. Hunt's mistake about it 231 to Y 235 D. DAnby's Plea O 197 Demeasn the Kings of England never had all the Lands of the Kingdom in demeasn 3d part p. 253 to 255 Dictare Sententiam how understood N 179 Doctor Oates vndicated P 222 Doctor Standish his Case 47 S 291 E. EArls and Barons are the Peers of the Realm 22 23 24 R. 263 Earls and Barons consiliarij nati 138 Earl of Arundel's Case O 208 Earl of Hereford and Glocester their Case T 287 V 189 Earl Godwin his Appeal Q 227 Earl of Northumberland 51 54 R 274 275 Earl of Salisbury Kent Huntington their Case 50 Ellis William's Case 35 Errors none by the Bishops absence 47 Estate Bishops but part of a 3d Estate 80 to 85 Exegetical where words used exegetically 52 X 213 Explication of several words quosque Judicium pervenior 155 156 Exposition of words according to the standing 18 to 25 52 X 212 to Y 226 and Q 233 234 F. FErrer's Sir Ralph's Case 39 Fitstephen's Authority examined 77 Fortescuâ—… his Authority B b 271 Form of Writs no Proof of Right 86 Franck-pledges at a Great Council of the Kingdom and who within them B b 273 274 275 283 284 G. GEntlemen how became so C c 285 Glocester Earl and Hereford their Case T 287 and V 189 Godwin Earl his Appeal Q 227 Gomentez and Weston their Cases 37 Grants where the Bishops not comprehended under that word itsextent 32 S 278 279 Government the same before 49 H. 3. as since 3d part 271 to 290 Gurney Thomas 26 H. HAxy Thomas his Case 43 Henry Hotspur's Case S 281 282 283 Huntington's Earl Case 50 S 280 Hunt Mr. the Censure of his Book Pref. to the second Treatise His wrong Translation of non licet in mar 157 His Mistakes Y 229 c. Reasons why he might have spared his Censures Y 228 229 I. IMpeachment when by the Commons the Lords obliged to to try a Commoner 14 Interesse ubi judicium sanguinis tractatur vel exercetur prohibited 158 John Imperial's Case 39 R 264 Irregularity P 221 222 223 Judicial Power in Capital Cases denied the Bishops in the Northern Kingdoms 90 Judicial Power denied them here by Canon Common and Statute Law Vid. Bishops Absence not meerly from the Canons Judgments in which the Bishops had share 11 Judicium a word of various Acceptations 155 Judgments alledged to be void for the Absence of the Bishops 11 195 O 196 Judgments in Parliament and the Curia Regis how reconciled General Pref. V fin K. KEnt Earl S 280 King cannot make an Estate 126 127 King Stephen's Grants reversed at Clarendon 141 142 King Rich. II. undecently reflected on O 194 L. LAwyers confessedly differ from the Questionist as to the Trial of Bishops T 277 and V 194 Laws made upon a dubious Title good 45 46 P 209 to 214 Laws concerning the matter and manner of their making 44 45 Lay-men used to meet with the Clergy in their Councils 157 Lee Sir John's Case 35 Legislative Power in capital Matters allowed to Bishops yet no judicial Power inferred Gen. Pref. 87 88 131 132 and even that an Abuse crept in since Hen. VIII 88 London a Corporation at the Common Law B b 282 Lord Latimer Lions Richard c. 35 Lords of Parliament 36 Lords Temporal expresly named in the Record as sole Iudges 40 58 and R 276 S 280 M. MAnucaptors B b 274 March Earl 22 Mautraver's Case 20 51 279 S 280 281 ibid. Modus tenendi Parl. its Antiquity 121 Molross the Abby its Case and the Authority of that Book answered G 206 207 Mortimer Sir Iohn's case whether judg'd by Act of Parliament 56 to 59 R 262 Mortimer Roger's Case 14 and R 262 N. NAmes equivocal no good Argument from thence P 227 Nevel Lord 35 Nobilitas Major how made 113 Bishops no part of such Nobility S 287 Northumberland Earl R 51 54 274 275 O. OAts Dr. vindicated P 222 Objections from Reason against Mr. W. and Mr. Hunt where they differ from the Autthor's Notion of the Curia Regis 3d part 205 206 Ocle William 26 Old-Castle Sir John 55 Old Modus its Antiquity 121 Omnipotency and the Bishop's Affectation of it in what sense understood by Lord H. 152 153 Orlton's Case R 267 P. PArdons made revocable at Pleasure O 195 Parliament when the word first in use 121 Parliament at Clarendon 139 Peace of the Bishops refusing to give Counsel about it 30 31 R 266 269 Percy Henry's Case 53 Peers of the Realm who 20 21 Pessimae Consuetudines what 140 142 Petrus Blessensis his Testimony 97 98 125 167 168 R 261 Plain dealing 147 Plea of the Earl of Danby O 197 Pool William Duke of Suffolk 13 T 286 Pool Michael's Case 33 34 R 272 Presidents urged against Lord Hollis make for him 14 Proctors or Proxies why the Bishops desire to make them 12 concerning their making them 46 162 197 199 B 200 201 204 205 Proprietors of Land as such their Interest in the Great Council of the Kingdom Y 230 231 and B b 273 to 291 Protestations of the Lord Hollis his Sincerity 6 Protestation made by the Bishops 11 R 2 5 6 7 8 41 42 43 and O 185 to 194 Protestations in the names of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal 8 13 Protomartyr 49 Q. QUestion concerning the Bishops stated 10 11 R. REcapitulation of Arguments against the Bishops being Iudges in case of Blood N 184 Again more fully P 223 224. Q 225. S 277 Rickhil Sir William's Case 48 Reflections upon R. the 2d undecent O 194 Regradation of Peers V 190 S. SAlisbury Earl's Case 50 Sautree William's Case 49 Scheme of the Government as it anciently stood and now stands B b 271 to 291 Scripture against the Bishops their medling in Secular Affairs 134 Scroop Lord. 50 Segrave's Case 61 62 and Q 232 233. T 287 Seniores Populi who meant by them 167 170 Sinister ends in the Parliament 21 R. 2. O 195 Spencer's their Case 48 O 197 198. and Q 234 Standish his Case 47 and S 291 Statute 27. Ed. Ist. c. 3.