sufficiently and without hearing what the Lords could say against it And why then should it seem so strange that the Lords should be as resolute in the asserting of their Right Their third surprize one may say is a piece of Sophistry for since they cannot answer the Reasons alledged by the Lords in the maintenance of their Assertion nor disprove their Presidents they would seem to slight them and wonder their Lordships should be so easily perswaded by them having no other Motives In the next place they would perswade the Lords that in their Presidents there is a departure from the question which is only concerning power of Abatement of Impositions upon Merchandize whereas these Presidents go to a joint power of imposing and beginning of Taxes which say they the Lords do not pretend to Nor indeed do they pretend to it neither did they cite those Presidents for that purpose And the House of Commons should not put upon them any other or further construction than they were produced for This may pre-possess standers by with a prejudice as if the Lords would assume to themselves a power of laying a charge upon the Nation at their pleasure but is not the way to discover who is in the right for his present pretensions This is cleer They do prove that in those times the Lords and the Commons did joyn in the gift that the one could not give without the other except they had otherwise agreed it among themselves and that they would give separately as they have sometimes done and but rarely Four times in Edward the thirds Reign 13 E. 3. n. 7 8. 18 E. 3. n 10. 20 E. 3. n. 11. 27 E. 3. n. 8. once in E. 4ths time 12 E 4. n. 8 9. and in the 29th Eliz. the Commons having made humble suit to the Lords to joyn with them in a Contribution or Benevolence to the Queen The Lords gave answer that they would leave the Commons to themselves and they would rate themselves which they did at 2 s. in the pound after the rate of the valuation of the Subsidy But the ordinary way of Parliament hath ever been for the two Houses to joyn in the gift And this not to be understood by a figure of Reddendo singula singulis as was said at the Conference by him that managed it for the House of Commons as if the Lords gave one part and the Commons another part and the Lords to have nothing to do with what the Commons give and the Commons nothing to do with what the Lords give And though they say We Lords and Commons grant to your Majesty this and this and here we both of us joyntly make to your Majesty one Present and give you one gift we tell you so yet it is not so but your Majestly must Reddere singula singulis and take one part of it as coming from your Lords and the other part as coming from your Commons And though your Majesty doth graciously return one thanks to us both yet we shall likewise Reddere singula singulis and divide the thanks between us and take each of us his part Is this a Parliament stile are Laws penned in such Ambiguous and sense-confounding terms doth an Act of Parliament say that the Lords and Commons grant a whole Subsidy to the King when neither of them doth so and each of them hath nothing to do with some part of the grant No certainly Acts of Parliaments and Laws speak distinctly and their expressions are always litterally true And where they say the Lords and Commons grant both have an interest and both exercise a power in granting Besides in a Subsidy of Tunnage and Poundage in which only Merchants and Tradesmen are concerned what singularity can be pretended of any thing belonging peculiarly to the Lords that they should be said to give there but for themselves and not to be at all concerned in what is done as to the generality of the Kingdom Therefore if they joyn there in granting it must be in reference to others and not to themselves and peruse all the Records from the 17th of R. 2. n. 12. upwards to the very first Subsidies of that nature given by Parliament it will be found that the stile was constantly We the Lords and Commons do grant c. And though since it hath sometimes varied in form the sense hath still been one and the same For if it was true then that the Lords had a part in the giving as the words all along are plain they had they must have a part still having never quitted it by their own Act nor lost it by the Act of any other The Figure then of Redddendo fingula singulis mends not the matter yet some alteration hath been as hereafter will be shewed though not in the giving part and that by which it comes to be a gift to the King But then saith the Manager of that Conference for the House of Commons If it be not so to be understood then to Grant signifies only to Assent and to say the Lords grant is as much as to say the Lords Assent to what the Commons grant But will this Exposition hold Can it be said that to give is to be content another shall give If this be giving one may find givers enough and a man may be charitable upon easie terms Would any man think we be content if another and he were bound to give such a man a hundred pounds if he who were to give part of the Mony with him as being together bound should say I am bound only to consent that you should give it all not to give any my self I believe if the Manager of the Conference were the man to whom it should be so said he would then expound it otherwise and say to his fellow-Obligee that to give and grant is one thing and to give consent another shall give and grant is another thing and you are bound Sir to give as well as I and not to be willing only that I should give all And by the same Grammar he might conclude that where it is said That the Lords and Commons do give and grant so and so to the King the meaning is That it is a Grant of the Lords as well as of the Commons and the Lords do give as well as the Commons and certainly in good English it can have no other construction But then he will tell you that therefore the stile was altered afterwards and to declare the gift to come only from the Commons it ran thus We the Commons by advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal do give and grant c. Well admit that to be now the setled constant form and not to be altered which yet we know is not so for sometimes the ancient form hath been observed in explicit terms We the Lords and Commons c. Sometimes implicitly We your Loyal Subjects do give and grant c. But be it
as 37 H. 8. the only printed Act of Subsidy in all his reign which begins thus We the Kings Majesties most humble faithful and obedient Subjects the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and the Commons in this present Parliament assembled c. have consulted together and determined to beseech His Majesty most humbly to accept and graciously to receive at our hands the simple token or gift which we do herewith present to His Majesty freely with one consent granting the same most humbly beseeching His Majesty to accept the same as it pleased the great King Alexander to receive thankfully a Cup of water of a poor man by the high-way-side c. And a little after they say Wherefore we the said Lords and Commons do by our mutual Assents and Agreements with one whole voice and hearty good will by the authority of this present Parliament give and grant to the Kings Highness c. Here then is but one consent one whole voice one hearty good-will to give and grant and one Act of giving and granting of the Lords and Commons and yet the Lords must have no hand in this giving as was told them at this Conference And they are told further That the thanks was given to the Commons alone and that is true it was it seems the Kings pleasure so to do But this course was not always observed sometimes both were thanked and the Law is they should be so in the Indemnity of Lords and Commons 9 H. 4. Nor can the Act of a King using his pleasure sometimes to vary from the exactness of a Law make an alteration in the nature and force of that Law but that still it remains the same to shew what then should have been done however the King was pleased to do otherwise and what will be done or at least ought to be done at an other time And now we will go with them to Walsingham and see if History makes more for them than Records though neither is History a sufficient proof for things of this nature neither is Walsinghams or any of those Moncks Writings the most authentick History in the world But let us see what Walsingham saith p. 475. he saith His diebus Clerus populus primo quintam decimam postmodum tricesimam bonorum suorum Regi Angliae in Subsidium concesserunt And p. 488. he saith Pro confirmatione harum rerum omnium dedit Populus Anglicanus Regi denarium nonum bonorum suorum Clerus Cantuariensis decimum Clerus Eboracensis quintum quia proprior damno fuit What doth this signifie but that the Laity gave so much and the Clergy so much and certainly the Lords will be acknowledged to be part of the Laity therefore the Laity giving they are comprehended An other quotation was urged from p. 566. The words are Eo tempore incohatum est Parliamentum quod protelabatur inutiliter fere per annum quia postquam Parliamentales milites distulissent diu concedere Regi Subsidium in fine tamen fracti concessere taxam petitam grandi Communitatis damno But how they will prove hence that the Commons gave this Subsidy alone is difficult to tell All that can be gathered from it seems to be but this the Knights in Parliament which may be taken for the whole House of Commons held off a long time but at last yielded and gave the Tax demanded to the great prejudice of the Commonalty doth it follow therefore that when the House of Commons had passed it at last the Lords did not assent and joine in the Grant Certainly no man will say it And for their last quotation out of p. 564 in H. 4 ths time that Subsidium denegatum fuit Proceribus renitentibus the words are these In quadragesima sequente Rex convenire fecit apud Sanctum Albanum Clerum Regnique Barones sed proceribus renitentibus nil actum fuit And no wonder that the Lords dissenting nothing was done yet whether this was a Parliament or only a Great Council non constat more like to have been only a Great Council and that the King had propounded matter of money to them as he did afterward in the Parliament of the 9th of his Reigne to the House of Lords and as this very Writer saith that he had done a little before to these same Barons at London viz. Post Festum Purificationis Rex accerssitis Londiniis regni Baronibus tract abat cum eisdem de Regni regimine deque pecuniali subventione sibi ferenda sed proceres Regiis votis tum minimè paruere All this was but a great Council and no Parliament if so be Walsingham gave a true account of what passed for he doth not mention the Commons to have been summoned at all or that they were there However were they or were they not there it makes nothing for the Managers purpose to prove the Commons sole givers And then for what he observes that the Lords not Agreeing an Act doth not pass is what no man yet did ever doubt of The Statute of 1 E. 3. c. 6. where the Commons complain that when they have granted an Aid and the Taxers had taxed them and they had paid the money there was Inquisitions afterwards and the Taxers put to fine and ransome signifies nothing to prove they were the sole Granters of that Aid And the 18th of E. 3. n. 14. It was by Agreement that the Lords should accompany the King and pass the Seas with him And the Commons they grant for the Commonalty at large in the Counties two Fifteens and for the Cities and Burroughs two Tenths the Record saith Et pur ceste cause les ditz Grants granterent de passer lour auenturer ovesque lui la dite Commune luy grantà pur meisme la cause sur certeine fourme deux Quinzismes de la Communaltee deux Dismes des Citees Eurghs c. This was sometimes practised as hath been already shewed both in this Kings time and in E. 4ths and once in Queen Eliz. that the two Houses did agree to act severally as here the Lords to serve in person when the Commons gave money So some times the Lords would charge themselves and their Tenants apart which in those times was a great part of the Kingdom and taking in the Clergy that is Bishops and Abbots and Priors who held per Baroniam more than half the Kingdom and the Commons did charge themselves a-part this in an extraordinary way which altered not the Case of their joint Gift when they would grant Aides in the ordinary Parliamentary manner As for what is said of the 36 E. 3. c. 11. was but taken out of Poultons Collection of Statutes in Print there indeed it is said That the three years Subsidy granted by the Commons to the King shall be no example for the time to come But if the Record it self had been consulted with it would have shewed that the Lords and Commons granted this Subsidy it is
For in that Parliament wee find nothing of this nature The Complaint of the Commons to the House of Lords for their Speaker being imprisoned and their desire to have him released which would not be granted was indeed that Parliament But to Hugh Brice's Case 8 E. 4. a clear answer may be given That what was therein done was by Act of Parliament in a Legislative way The Commons Petitioning in these words Please it therefore your Highness by the Advice and Assent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in this Parliament assembled and by authority of the same to assign name and appoint the full reverend Fader in God Thomas Cardinal Arch-Bishop of Canterbury c. Then names several Lords both Spiritual and Temporal the three Chief Judges of the three Courts and some of the House of Commons to be the persons to examine that business and heare those complaints against Brice the Master of the Mint The King's Answer is Le Roy le voet with a saving to his Prerogative Royal conceiving it it seems to be some derogation to it that the Commons should be admitted to any part of Judicature though by a special Law for it For this was a perfect Act of Parliament in which the three Estates concurred in their Legislative capacity which had no affinity with the Judicial Power exercised by the Lords in their House as the highest Court of Judicature As for his President of 2 H. 5. where he saith It was assigned for error in the House of Peers that the Lords gave Judgement without the assent or a Petition of the Commons It was the Earle of Salisbury's Case to reverse the Judgement given upon his Father and it is true indeed it was assigned for an Error but it is as true it was not allowed to be one for his Writ of Error was rejected and that Judgement was affirmed And strange it is that he should produce this for a President to prove a Partnership of Judicature in the Commons being a strong one against it And as well might at any time a Plaintiffs Bill in Chancery be produced for Evidence against a Defendant in some other suite even when the Bill hath beene dismissed And his next President is just such an other to shew that the King and Commons alone without the Lords have made Acts of Parliament for which he quotes 1 E. 6. c. 5. It is a Statute against conveying Horses out of England and it is true that in Pulton's Collections it is so Printed as enacted by the King and Commons without mention of the Lords But if the Journal of the Lords House had been consulted it would have shewed that the Bill began in their House was read the first time the 1st of December upon a Thursday The second time upon a Wednesday the 7th The third time upon Saturday the 10th and sent down to the House of Commons by the Kings Attorney and Sollicitor the 22 d. of December upon a Thursday the House of Commons sent it up againe with a Proviso to be added which Proviso was allowed of by the Lords and the Bill dispatched the Saturday after It was therefore a foul mistake to say this Bill passed without the Lords And it may be modestly said of all his Presidents both concerning the Legislative and the Judicature that upon better consideration he will not finde cause of great encouragement from them to argue the foundations of either Power in order to that Super-structure which he would reare whither in diminution of that Power which is challenged by the House of Peeres in the Legislative for Impositions or maintenance of that which he pretends to for the House of Commons in point of Judicature And now wee come to his particular Answers to the Reasons given by the Lords And to so much and so many of those Answers as seeme to containe any thing of weight and material to be replied unto we shall give that Reply that is necessary but as for that which is jocular and hath something of reflection in it as too much of it hath onely this shall be said Auferat oblivio si potest si non silentium teget To the 1st Reason then given by the Lords which was That the happiness of the Constitution is to have one House to be a Cheek to the other his Answer being That the Lords having a Negative voice to the whole is a sufficient Check to the House of Commons It is replyed That to have a Negative voice is not to be a Check A Negative voice is one thing a Check is an other The King hath a Negative voice to what both Houses doe yet he cannot be said to be a Check to the Houses The two Houses have each of them a Negative voice to the Convocation granting Subsidies yet they cannot be said to be Checks to the Convocation But each to other in their Legislative capacity have both a Check and a Negative voice which are different operations of that Legislative Power For properly to be a Check is to have a trust reposed in one to examine the Act of an other And both are trusted by and accountable to a third person by whose authority and for whose Service both are employed And he that is the Check cannot wholy reject what the other hath done be it an account or any thing else he can onely examine it if it be right And if any error be he can correct it and reforme it and make it such as that he who employes them both may receive no dammage nor prejudice by it And this is the proper worke of the House of Peeres as they are a Check to the House of Commons for they have a Negative voice besides which is not now the Question but onely as they are a Check and so they are trusted both by the King and People as well as is the House of Commons not onely in Money-matters but in all things else cognisable by the Parliament If the House of Commons give Money so to the King as the Subject cannot beare it if out of Trade so as Trade cannot beare it which is the proper question now 〈◊〉 out of the Estates of the People so as they are not able to pay it the King himself suffers in all this as well as the People it will be his dammage his loss at the last nay the greatest damage and loss will be his at the long run perhaps immediately for as the saying is He that graspes too much holds nothing so if more be given than can be paide nothing may be received A thing which King James of blessed memory did well understand and therefore in the Session of Parliament 7 mo the 21. of March he called both Houses to him to Whitehall upon occasion of an Aide then demanded and there among other things said this to them If you give more than is fit you abuse the King and hurt the People and such a Gift I will never accept for in such
The Commons with the Assent of the Lords do give c. It doth not at all follow but that the Lords have still power to alter and qualifie the gift before they will assent to it Nay if it be so that they must assent to it before the House of Commons can give it as that will not be denyed it doth then necessarily follow that if it be not such as they can approve of in their Judgments when it comes from the House of Commons to them they must have power to alter it and make it such as that they may assent to it except they must be denyed the use of their reason which would be a severe imposing upon a House of Parliament and an absurd one A Councel not to be suffered to debate and consider of what is proposed to it and what advice it shall give to him who hath called it for that purpose to receive its advice and so to frame it and mould it as that it may be fit to be advised This is to make a Councel to be no Councel it is what the Logicians call Contradictio in adjecto a quality inconsisting with the Subject as an Orator to be dumb an Auditor to be deaf a Watchman to be blind so a Councel to be without power to consider debate and satisfie it self of the Counsel that it must give And it is directly contrary to the Writ which convenes and constitutes the Parliament The Lords are summoned by it Ad tractandum consilium impendendum de rebus arduis but they must sit there as so many Parish Clerks only to say Amen to what the House of Commons hath resolved and neither tractare nor consilium impendere And what a Pageantry were this to read a Bill of Subsidy solemnly once twice thrice commit it perhaps to a Committee of the whole House make a great business and when all is done after all this stir they must assent to it and pass it just as it came at first from the House of Commons be the mistakes in it never so great and the ill consequences of it never so ruinous Can a rational man believe that a House of Parliament should be so constituted to act against the nature of a Parliament Yes will they say for both Houses do the same in some cases They can alter nothing in the Subsidy of the Clergy nor in an Act for a General Pardon and yet they give their Assents to pass them for Laws Which is very true but makes nothing to this Case for those are things Eccentrick to Parliament they have their motion in an other Sphere The Convocation gives the one The King of his free Grace bestows the other the Parliament only gives them the force of a Law and may chuse whether or no it will do that when they are prepared to their hands but it cannot meddle with the things themselves to make them this way or that way But now what is said here is to be understood of things properly within the cognizance of the Parliament and that receive their rise and progress there that is to say in one of the two Houses for the two Houses make up but one Parliament And of such things where either House is to give an assent to them that House may debate them and alter and change them as it thinks good And it mends not the matter to say That House may reject all as the King may any Bill presented to him which hath passed both Houses For by the constitution of the Government the King hath only a Negative voice but by the same constitution of Government the Parliament that is either House in its Legislative capacity hath not only a Negative but also a Deliberative voice in all things of which it is cognizable And of nothing is it more cognizable than of what concerns Trade which is the wealth and strength and support of the Kingdom for which concernments they are principally called and summoned by the King 's Writ But how this particular of Trade and Impositions upon Merchandize for the guarding of the Seas and securing Merchants Ships in their passage out and home for carrying on of Trade came to be lodged in the care and power of the Parliament and in what manner that power and care was first executed by them which was then equally in both Houses to begin and propose whatever either House thought fit and how afterwards it came to be appropriated to the House of Commons to be the first movers in those Impositions and the House of Lords to reserve to themselves only a power to qualifie and moderate the Sums imposed and bring them to that due measure and proportion which would be most convenient and advantageous to the Trade of the Kingdom and if any error had slipped in at the first framing and composing of a Bill passed for that purpose in the House of Commons the Lords to reform and amend it This we say is well worth the inquiry It appears by the Records that it was at first a meer act of State the King with the advice of his great Councel the Spiritual and Temporal Lords contracting with Merchants that they paying a certain rate for their Commodities whether exported or imported he would undertake to waft over their Ships and secure them from danger in their passage Such was that agreement recited in the Patent Roll of 3 E. 1. m. 1. n. 1. which by him that managed the Conference for the House of Commons was much mistaken first upon point of Grammar the words of it he acknowledges to be as we say that Magnates Communitas concesserunt But Concesserunt he will have to relate only to Communitas which is certainly false Grammar and then Communitas he expounds to be the Commons which is a mistake in the matter and true sence of the Record As for his Grammatical mistake in the Syntaxis and his so construing the Record he must give us leave to say that he goes contrary to an universal known Rule in the Syntaxis of all Languages that ever were yet spoken which is this That where there are several Nominative Cases joyned together with a Conjunction copulative they all do equally relate to the Verbe so Magnates here must have the same influence upon the Verbe Concesserunt as Communitas and they do alike Concedere But then what will be said if Communitas in that Record be not the Commons as is surmised but Communitas Mercatorum the Community of Merchants which any body would have seen who had consulted the Record and not relyed wholly upon Sir Edward Cooke's misreciting it in Print in those two mentioned places the 2d part of the Institutes p. 531. and the 4th part p. 29. But to give a true account of the marter There are two Records of this one in the Patent Roll 3 E. 1. m. 1. n. 1. in Latin which is something defaced yet so much of it legible as to serve for the
disproving of Sir Edward Cooke's allegation and the Comment now made upon it for it runs thus Rex omnibus c. cum Praelati Magnates ac tota Communitas Mercatorum Regni nostri nobis concesserint quandam torn out coriis tam in Anglia c. in forma subscripta videlicet de quolibet torn out pellibus quae faciunt unum saccum dimid ' Marc ' de qualibet lesta coriorum unam Marc ' c. Then persons are appointed to collect this duty which is the sum of that Record And this is againe Registred in Rotulo Finium 3 E. 1. m. 24. tit de nova Custuma in French viz. A la nouuelle Custume ke est graunte par tout les Graunt del Reaume e par la priere des Communes des Merchaunt de tut ' Engleterre c. And so goes on to tell what it is they grant de chescum sac de leyne demi mark et de chescum treiscent de peaus ke funt vn sac demi mark de chescun laste de kevir vn mark and then takes course for the collecting c. This Record is perfect from the beginning to the end which any man may resort to when he pleases to satisfie himself and the House of Commons that here was no gift of the Commons in Parliament but a pure contract of the Commonalty of Merchants with the King and Lords which way of imposing this duty at last came to be grievous and the Parliament made great complaints of it several times In the 21. of E. 3. at a great Councel held in the King's absence by Lionel of Antmerp as the Record stiles him the King's Son where there was no House of Commons there had been granted 2 s. upon every Sack of Wool 2 s. upon every Tun of Wine and 6 d. in the pound upon all Merchandize for the payments of Ships to guard the Seas and to Convoy Merchants and this duty to continue till the Michaelmas following The January after that a Parliament was called at which the Commons complained that the payment upon the Wool which should have ended at Michaelmas was still demanded and they desire the King to forbid his Officers the demanding of it any longer The answer is That that payment was prolonged until Easter because the King had been at great charge in setting out Ships and was not yet reimbursed his money which being for so short a time should not seem to be grievous 21 E. 3. n. 11. And they complain again in the 25th E. 3. n. 11. of such Impositions which had been laid on a-new by an Agreement with the Merchants and pray they may cease the Answer is Le Roy S'auisera et surceo les respondra en conuenable manere Then in the 51th E. 3. n. 25. They come with a general desire that for the time to come the Prelates Earls Barons Commons Citizens and Burgesses of the Kingdom may not be charged molested nor grieved De Commune aide faire or Charge sustenir by granting a common Aid or bearing any charge except by the common assent of the Prelates Earls Barons c. and this in full Parliament They desire also that no Impositions be laid upon Wool and Wool fells save the ancient one of half a mark upon a Sack c. To the first is answered Le Roy nest mie en volontee de le faire sans grande necesceite et pur la defens du Roialme et la ou il le purra faire par reson and for the other point of the Wools The answer is That there is a Statute in the case which the King wills to be in force So here is a disavowing of the thing yet with a reserve upon urgent necessity though in the 14th of his Reign he had consented to a Law upon occasion of a Grant made to him of the ninth Sheaf and Fleece and Lamb wherein he declares that willing to provide for the Indempnity of the Prelates Earls Barons and Commons the same Grant shall not be had in Example another time nor turn to their prejudice in time to come c. Further enacts That they shall not from henceforth be charged nor grieved to make any aid or to sustain charge if it be not by the Common Assent of the Prelates Earls Barons and other great men and Commons of the Realm of England and that in the Parliament which are the words of the Statute C. 1. of the second Statutes made that year The same in effect that he had bound himself to by a former Act made in the preceding Parliament of the same year C. 21. when a Subsidy had been granted to him of Wool Leather and other Merchandizes that passed the Sea between Easter and Pentecost That he nor his Heirs would for the future take more than the old Custom And in the 13th of his Reign part 1. n. 13. when he had by his own authority laid a charge upon Wool and Lead the Commons come and pray it may be taken off and that the Male-tot upon those Commodities may be taken as anciently it was accustomed and not as then enhansed without their assent or of the Lords Desicome ele est enhancee saunz assent de la Commune ou des Grands saith the Record Where is to be noted by the way that the House of Commons then did not think that the Lords were to be wholly excluded their Votes in those Impositions when they made it a ground of their exception that they had not agreed to them Certain it is that though this King struggled all his time with his Parliaments about the exercise of this power and sometimes did seem to yield and would promise fair at other times would deny any condescension to their desires of being eased of those Impositions even when they complained that notwithstanding those allowances and payments for guarding the Seas and securing Merchants yet Merchants were robbed and the Seas unguarded as is set forth 21 E. 3. n. 58. yet still the Parliament got some ground and less and less was it practised in that Prerogative way And after his time it was wholly remitted and left to the Parliament and there was not the least attempt of reassuming it any more But ever after it was taken by the King as a pure gift of the Parliament of which the stile was Wee the Lords and Commons doe give and grant c. And the first variation of it was in the 21th of R. 2d when it was Wee the Commons with the assent of the Bishops and Lords do give c. which continued so for three or four Kings Reigns and since hath been various sometimes as anciently Wee the Lords and Commons sometimes without specifying either Wee your Loyal Subjects and all signifying the same thing That both joyned in the gift as hath been already shewn And so jealous were they of having it thought other than a pure gift of theirs that they would sometimes grant this Subsidy
with a short intermission of time in which the King should not receive it as 5 R. 2. n. 40. there was to be an interruption to the Kings taking of it for a week between the Nativity and the Circumcision And the like 9 K. 2. n. 11. for above a moneth from Midsummer to the first of August and then 13 H. 4. n. 10. they speak out and say they give it the King for a year so always as the same should be confessed to proceed of their own good will and not duty 27 E. 3. n. 9. Sir Bartholomew Burghersh the Kings Chamberlain made a long Speech to both Houses the King present declaring the wrong which the King received from his Enemy of France as the Record stiles him keeping from him that Crown which was his right that the King was resolved to recover it by force and therefore desired the Prelates Lords and Commons to grant unto him the Subsidy of Wools Wool-fells and Leather which was then expired for a longer time Sur queu priere saith the Record eue deliberation entre les ditz Prelatz Grauntz et Cōes sassenterent vnement et granterent au Roi le Subside des Leyns Quirs et Peaux lanuz pur trois anz c. Et que les deniers sourdans de mesme le Subside soient sauuement gardez pur la dite guerre sans ceo qils soient mis en autre oeps Dequent Grante nostre S le Roi enmerciales Seigneurs et Communes The King here makes it his desire to the Lords as well as to the Commons to grant it They confer about it with the Commons and together with them do grant it then appoint how it shall be employed only to the War and to no other use and afterwards receive the Kings thanks for their granting it as well as the Commons How then can it be said that the Lords must have nothing to do with these Grants But then will it not be inferred that if it be as much in the gift of the Lords as of the Commons the Lords may not only moderate and abate but also augment the gift and propose it first in their House and give away the Peoples money at their pleasure It was certainly so in the beginning but now not at all so as the saying is Modus Conventio vincunt legem Agreement alters right And though the certain time when this Agreement was first made and when this was first altered and all the circumstances of that first Alteration and of that Agreement cannot be made out by the Records yet it may be made out that it was before the 9th of H. 4. n. 21 22. when the Indempnity of the Lords and Commons and of the Lords aswel as of the Commons was declared and setled by a Law made that Parliament for that purpose and the Law hath that title Indempnitee des Seigneurs et Communes and is abundantly sufficient to settle and establish the manner of granting Subsidies in Parliament and the power of proceeding of either House in passing Acts of that nature were there nothing else The Record sets forth That the King coming to the Lords House in the Abbey at Glocester and communication there had of the state of the Kingdom then environed with Enemies and how behooveful it was to give a notable aid to the King to enable him to resist those Enemies the Lords being demanded what aid did severally give their opinions That less would not serve then a tenth and half of the Cities and Burroughs and a fifteenth and half of the rest of the Laity and to continue for two years the Subsidy of Wools Wool fells and Leather and the 3 d. Tunnage and poundage for other Commodities which the King commanded should be signified to the House of Commons And a message was thereupon sent to them that they should send up some of their number to heare what from the King would be said unto them Who sent up a dozen of their Members and to them was declared what had been moved to the Lords and what their Lordships had answered which they were willed to report to their House that so they might come to a conformity with the sence of the Lords The report being made to the Commons Ils ent furent saith the Record grandement destourbez en disant et affermant ce estre en grant prejudice et derogation de lour libertees they were greatly disturbed saying and affirming that this was a great prejudice and derogation to their liberties which represented to the King and he not willing that any thing should be done that might at present or in after times turn to the prejudice of their Liberties N'encontre les libertees de les seigneurs susdits nor against the liberty and freedom of the foresaid Lords Wills Grants and Declares with the advice and consent of the Lords themselves That in this and all future Parliaments it shall be lawful for the Lords to debate and commune among themselves of the State of the Kingdom and the necessary remedies And likewise the Commons to do the same by themselves And that neither the Lords nor the Commons shall acquaint the King with any Grant made by the Commons and by the Lords assented unto nor with any of the Communications concerning that Grant till the Lords and Commons themselves come to an Agreement and accord in that behalf and then to be in the manner and form as hath been accustomed that is to say by the mouth of the Speaker of the House of Commons for the time being To the end that they the Lords and Commons may receive their thanks from our Lord the King It being moreover the will of the King by the assent of the said Lords that the foresaid Communication of this present Parliament shall not be drawn into Example for the time to come nor be made use of neither in this nor in any future Parliament to the prejudice or derogation of the liberty of the State Then n. 23. is added How the last day of the Parliament the Speaker of the House of Commons made it his prayer to the King that he would grant unto that House leave to depart in as much freedome as others had formerly done The King answers That it pleased him well and that he had alwayes been of that mind Upon this memorable Record wee may make many Observations and from them draw several Conclusions As 1. That it was even before that time held to be against the Priviledge of the House of Commons and a derogation to them for the Lords to be Beginners in moving them to lay any charge upon the People And that it is the Priviledge of the House of Commons to have it arise from themselves 2. That it is so acknowledged by the King and Lords 3. That upon the Complaint of the Commons that it is a breach of their Priviledge for the Lords to begin and propound the granting of a Subsidy and the King and
Lords joyning and so declaring it likewise It becomes here a Law that is a Declaratory Law of a thing which was before not a Creating Law of a new thing 4. For it appears to have been a thing formerly so setled in regard it is here declared to be the manner and forme accustomed for the Speaker of the House of Commons to be the Person from whom the King must receive the notice of such a Grant and to be he that must present it which shews that the House of Commons hath something proper and peculiar unto them in this Grant since it must be received from their hand for it is their act the presenting of it and their Speaker is but the Conduit-pipe to convey it from them And this can only be that they are to have the beginning of it to be the first Movers and Proposers of all such Grants But all things else concerning those Grants as the preparing and modelling and fitting them in all circumstances and reducing the sums to a just and due measure if there be cause for it and then the giving them to the King that is making a Law whereby they are given to him and that which was before part of the Estate of the Subject to be now transferred to the King and made to be his Right and his proper goods and he impowered to levy it this wee say to be still the joynt-work of both Houses and equally in the one as in the other For in the fifth place it is manifest hence likewise that the Lords have their share in the Grant and that they have power to make such alteration in it as may fit it for their assent for that Act of Parliament saith 1. That they shall debate it and confer of it among themselves 2. They may then so alter it and frame it as that they may assent to it which is the end of their debating it 3. They must assent to it before the Speaker of the House of Commons can present it 4. The King is to give thanks for it to them as well as to the Commons And it cannot be thought that he will thank them for nothing that is for a thing in which they have power to do nothing 5. And lastly The King by this Act provides for the preservation of the Priviledge and Liberty of the House of Lords in those Grants unto him as well as of the House of Commons which had been infringed And what was this Liberty but freedom of debate not to be locked up any more with a previous Vote as they were then upon the King 's propounding the matter to them and they coming to a present resolution in the Kings presence and accordingly is the Act intituled Indemnitee des Seignours et Communes But may it not still be objected that by what hath been hitherto said the Lords may adde to as well as abate and take from the charge Not at all For it hath been said they cannot be the first movers and beginners of any charge upon the People And then they cannot adde any thing For so much as they adde to any Sum proposed by the Commons they do for so much begin a new charge therefore in all their communings and debatings the result can be only to moderate and abate the charge if there be cause for it not to augment it As in 4 R. 2. n. 11 12. A great Sum having been demanded by the King and the great Officers and Councel having delivered in a Schedule containing divers particular charges amounting to 150000 l. The Commons come before the Lords and desire of them a moderation of that Sum and that it would please them to consider how it might be levied So certainly it was then the opinion of the House of Commons that the Lords had power to consider of and lessen the charge of the People and to moderate demands for they desire them to exercise that power But it will be said This was demanded onely by the King but the House of Commons had not imposed that Summe for then their Lordships could not have medled with lessening it This doth not at all alter the Case being it was in order to a Bill to be passed for laying such a Tax upon the People But to prove that they have abated of a Summe imposed by the House of Commons Wee will goe no further then this very Parliament in the 14th year of the King in the Bill for enlarging and repairing of common High-wayes for which purpose the House of Commons had agreed upon a Rate of 12 d. in the Pound to be levied upon the Inhabitants of Parishes contributory to those Repairs the Lords brought it down to 6 d. And the House of Commons agreed to it But perhaps they will say That this is not to the purpose for that the Point in controversie is not concerning the Abatement of any charge that should be laid in general upon the Subject but only for that which is imposed upon Merchandize As if the one did not necessarily follow the other For if the Lords can abate Taxes at large laid upon the People with much stronger reason may they abate an Imposition upon Merchandize exported or Imported And if they have not power to abate in this which concerns only Merchants much less can it be thought they should doe it in the other which concerns the whole Kingdome Which the House of Commons did well foresee and therefore it is that they are so Positive in their Assertion that It is their fundamental right to impose all charge upon Merchandize for Matter Measure and Time unalterably as to the Lords which how they doe make good and maintaine by their Presidents and Arguments wee will now in few words examine though by what hath been already said the contrary seems to have been sufficiently proved It is true that at the former Conference the Lords were told That the House of Commons had narrowed the ground and reduced the Question to this single point of laying rates and impositions upon Merehandize only and not upon the Subject in general Wherein the Lords conceive themselves very kindly dealt with That the House of Commons hath been pleased to make choice of that to be disputed by them whereto their Lordships have the clearest right to be at least Joynt-tennants with them and they the least pretensions to challenge it wholly to themselves For in charging the People the House of Commons will perhaps say they ought to be the sole Arbiters in regard they take upon them to be their sole Representatives and to be Trustees for them and trusted by them with all their concerns which yet will not be granted that they represent all the People for how many thousands are there in every County whom they doe not Represent and who have no voice in their Elections and so confer no trust upon them but they cannot have any the least pretensions to be sole in laying burthens upon Trade and Rates upon
Merchandize which even for our Home-Commodities and where the naturall borne Subject is concerned is much depending upon and regulated by Treaties and Agreements and Negotiations with other Princes and States over which the House of Commons will not pretend to have any authority either for governance or inspection so cannot easily judge what is fit or not fit to be imposed But then for Merchants Strangers and their Goods what colour what shaddow of reason can the House of Commons have to pretend any power to lay a charge upon them and dispose of their Estates The whole Parliament indeed hath power over them as it hath upon whatsoever comes within the Kings Dominions whether Persons or Goods though never so forreign All which while here owe a local Subiection to the Government and Laws of this Kingdom but to either House singly none at all being only subject and bound to submit to what is imposed upon them by the whole State making it a Law but cannot be supposed to be within the disposition and gift of the House of Commons alone Yet they say They have been possessed of this power in all Ages and sind not one grant of Tunnage and Poundage that is not barely the gift of the Commons And well is it proved by the Statute of 3 E. 1. as hath been shewed already by reading Communitas concesserunt and leaving out the principal word Mercatorum which shews it to have been a Grant of the Merchants not of the House of Commons as they would understand it And the several Presidents cited by the Lords When the two Houses did confer and advise together about granting of Aides to the King by which the Lords did prove the power exercised by their Ancestors of delivering their advice and opinions and giving their Votes in point of Subsidies and Taxes they would evade by drawing a contrary inference That is All Aydes said they must begin with the Commons for else the Lords needed not to have conferred but have sent down a Bill So being begun by the Commons the Lords can neither alter nor diminish else why adjust matters by private Conference before-hand if they might have reformed it afterwards The first part of this is acknowledged and the ground-work is good That the Grants must begin with the Commons but the superstructure upon it is very false and deceitful For cleane contrary It is therefore good to adjust the matter beforehand and then make but one worke of it because else the Lords if they be unsatisfied will alter what the House of Commons had taken a great deal of pains to compleat and finish which will be a new business take up more time and cause more trouble Whereas if the Lords had not power to change any thing it were to no purpose to confer and satisfie them before-hand for satisfied or not satisfied they could alter nothing but must sit down and pass whatever the House of Commons had sent up to them This was the true reason of those previous Conferences which sometimes were propounded by the King sometimes desired by the Commons but still to expedite and facilitate the business and only for that end Which makes good all those Presidents viz. 14th 22th 29th 47th and 51th E. 3. the 4th and 6th R. 2. and the 7th of King James which were cited by the Lords concerning those Conferences between the two Houses about matters of Money whether for raising or for disposing of them and leaves them strong evidences and unshaken proofs of that Right and Power and Interest which the House of Lords hath in all such matters whether of Aides given to the King or Moneys raised upon the People for the present defense of the Kingdom and immediately ordered to be applyed to that purpose And this acknowledged even by the House of Commons themselves as appears by their often Addresses to the Lords desiring their help and assistance in it As for the Case of 14 E. 3. it was made use of by the Lords only to prove that there had been Grand trete et parlance entre les Grantz et les Cōes great treating and conferring between them As for what was said after of the Nones being then granted or having been granted before to be then appointed to be sold for the present raising of Money which was mentioned at the Conference as if the Lords had committed some mistake in their citing of this President alters not the Case The Conference about the present raising of Money in that way and the Commons of themselves not able to doe it without the Conjunction of the Lords is a President undeniable of the Lords Power and Interest in matters of that nature Yet who reads the Record thorough will find that there was 40 s. upon the Sack of Wool granted for Custome and 20000 Sacks of Wool to be taken up for the King in whose hands soever found and the price set one mark upon a Sack less than was agreed at Nottingham the Owners to be reimbursed out of the Nones of the second year And this was a proposition made by the Lords and assented to by the Commons Then their observation upon the 22 E. 3. n. 3. must not be passed by They will have it to prove expresly that the Commons granted 3 Fifteens as if they had done it alone without the Lords which how impossible it is need not be said it speaks it self for it cannot be imagined that one House alone could make an Act of Parliament But this was meerly a proposition of the House of Commons in Answer to what they had received in command from the King as appears by the Record it self The words are Sur ce fut commande as Chinalers des Contees et autres des Communes qils se deueroient treter ensemble et prendre bon anys c. Et de se qils ent sentirent le deveroient monstrer a nostre Seigneur le Roy et a les Grants c. Then after some dayes debating it among themselves they came up to the House of Lords and sirst make great complaints of their many pressures then make several requests and declare certain conditions which conditions observed their requests granted they then say they give three fifteens Let any man now judge if this was any more than a bare proposition of the House of Commons which they made to the King and the House of Lords And if this could be the Granting of a Subsidy But indeed the King and Lords consenting and joyning in it It was then a perfect grant setled by a Law To say the truth of this Parliament no great formality was observed in it It was very short by reason of the Plague as was declared at the opening of the next Parliament which was 25. n. 5. in these words Cest assaver l'an de son Regne vintisme second il sist sommondre son Parlement a Westminster lequel sembla puis a luy et a son Conseil que
ne se poeit bonement tenir adonques pur cause de la pestilence q'estoit bien aspre a mesme temps et par tant il sist relesser le dit sommons adonques c. So as no good measure can well be taken from any thing done this Parliament Much need not be said neither to their endeavour of proving the Communitas 3. E. 1. to be understood to be the Communalty of England by the recital of that Statute in a Statute made after in 25 E. 1. c. 7. called Consirmationes Chartarum since it hath already been made out by the Record That that Grant in 3 tio was by the Communitas Mercatorum But however a short mention made in a Recital can be no Restrictive proof that is to say not a proof to limit and restrain the sense when more is expressed or may be understood in the Act it self at large And therefore their argumentation concerning those Statutes of E. 6. can no ways be allowed In the 2 3 E. 6. c. 36. A Subsidy is given and the stile is Wee the Kings Majesties faithful loving and obedient Subjects the Lords and Commons doe grant c. This Statute he saith is recited in 3 4 E. 6. c. 23. And there it is acknowledged to be only a Grant of the Commons The words are these That where in the last Session of this present Parliament your humble and faithful Subjects the Commons in the said Parliament assembled with the assent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal Granted c. Now first This is not said to be onely the Grant of the Commons for the Lords joyne and give their assent to it Secondly If the Commons only had been mentioned restrictively in this Recital the Act it self saying expresly That the Lords and Commons Granted should the Recital be of more validity to declare what was enacted than the Act it self In the third place it may be observed That the Act saying The Lords and Commons doe Grant And the Recital of that Act saying It was the Commons with the assent of the Lords It must follow that in the Judgement of the Parliament then these two forms of expressing the Grant of a Subsidy did signifie one and the same thing and they may be promiscuously used without any variation of the sense so that in all Acts of Subsidies where wee find it said Wee the Commons doe with the assent of the Lords grant so and so it is as much as if it had been said Wee the Lords and Commons doe grant c. which overthrows all that the House of Commons hath alledged or can alledge to make it to be their gift alone and the Lords to have no part in it And to prove it say they the stile hath been altered and the Acts doe now run for the most part Wee the Commons with the assent of the Lords c. But it is answered though the stile be changed the sense continues the same And 2 R. 2. n. 37. The House of Commons themselves are said but to Give their assent to an Imposition which had his rise in the House of Lords The Case was thus Upon a Reference from the House of Lords to the Earl of Northumberland and the Maior of London with some Merchants joyned to them six Vessels were appointed for the guarding of the Northern Seas infested by Pirates who had landed and plundered the Town of Scarborough and for defraying the charge of those Vessels an Imposition was laid upon Ships that passed through those Seas of 6 d. per Tun excepting Flemish Ships bound for London and such as carried Wools and Woolfells to Calais and 6 d. per Tun a week upon Ships that fished for Herring and upon all other Fisher-boats 6 d. per Tun every three weeks This had passed in the House of Lords unknown it seems to the House of Commons for the Record saith they petitioned the King that care might be had of those Seas and of the Town of Scarborough The Answer is Remede ent est ordeinez per maniere comme le Conte de Northumberland et le Mair de Londres qi furent assignez en Parlement de treter sur cette bisoigne le sachent plus au plein declarer That already there is a remedy ordeined in it as the Earl of Northumberland and Maior of London who were appointed by the Parliament to treat of that business could more fully informe them which they did and the Commons gave their Assent to it as is expressed in a Schedule annexed which contains the particulars of that transaction So then the stile of Giving an Assent can not be said to be wholly and solely appropriated to the House of Lords and made a mark of their having no part nor portion in the giving of those Subsidies since the same is likewise said of the House of Commons As for the Indemnity of the Lords and Commons 9 H. 4. It hath been already spoken to and clearly proved out of it that the Lords are very far from being by it secluded to be noe parties to the Grant but that they should not be the Beginners of it is confessed And that was it which was then the Grievance to the Commons that the Lords had already concluded the Aide to the King and declared it so to the Commons not for demanding a Committee to confer with about it as was alledged at the Conference As for the Book-Case of 33 H. 6. which they say is the weakest of all is a thing easily said but not so easily made good for others conceive it a very strong proof of the Lords assertion of their Interest in granting of Subsidies it is brought there as an instance of the Proceedings of Parliament of which the Judges desired to be informed upon occasion of a business depending before them in which there had passed an Act of Parliament and therefore they sent for Kirkeby of the Rolls as the Book stiles him and for Faux the Clerk of the Parliament to receive information from them They come and Kirkeby speaks and lays down this for a Rule That if the Lords make an alteration to a Bill which may well stand with that which the Commons have done they need not send this Bill back to the House of Commons And of this they give an instance which is this If say they the Commons have sent up a Bill of Tunnage and Poundage to continue for four years and the Lords they alter it to two years it need not be sent down againe to the House of Commons And the reason is because it may stand with the grant of the Commons for both Lords and Commons have granted it for two years This was the Case to which were taken several exceptions 1. That it was onely the opinion of the Clerk of the Parliament not of the Judges To which is answered That if it was so none could better know the course of Parliaments than the Clerk of the Parliament who
was therefore sent for by the Judges to informe them nor durst he have delivered that in Court for an instance of the course and usage of Parliament if it had been a thing not practised in Parliament Nor is it to be believed that those Judges could be so ignorant of the proceedings of Parliament particularly of the manner of granting Subsidies in which every man is concerned as not they to have known if or no the Clerk did give a true instance of a matter in fact And their allowing of it was a kind of declaring their opinions in the Case But it was not the Clerk of the Parliament that gave that account to the Judges though it be true that Faux the Clerk of the Parliament agreed to it but Kirkeby who was in truth Master of the Rolls said it in the name of both whose authority should be of weight being one in that great place which is ranked in the Statute 12 R. 2. c. 2. before the two Chief Justices by the name of Clerk of the Rolls by which name that Officer was anciently called and was first in any Statute stiled Master of the Rolls 11 H. 7. c. 18. Kirkeby held this Office which was granted to him in reversion after John Stopindon by a Patent confirmed by Parliament bearing date 20 Martii 25 H. 6. p. 1. m. 7. And so Brooke stiles him Clerk of the Rolls of Parliament not Clerk of the Parliament as he was termed at the Conference slightly enough which title Brooke gives to Faux as the Year-booke doth Nor is the authority of the Year-booke it self to be set so light by having been compiled by the ablest Students at Law appointed for that worke allowed and approved by the Judges then and by all the Judges and Lawyers ever since Their second exception is That it was a Case put by the By and not pertinent to the matter there in hand Which may be urged rather an Argument for it than against it there being the less reason to apprehend that there was any byass of affection or prejudice to lead them to such a declaration as too often there is when men come to speak their opinions concerning things in contest between party and party Thirdly That it is against the constant usage of Parliament for that then the Lords may chuse whether they will send downe the Bill after they have made an Abatement It is acknowledged that the Lords doe now use to send back a Bill if any the least alteration be made in it but why formerly it might not have been sometimes otherwise practised no convincing reason can be given Wee know many things have been changed in Parliaments and every where else Some things have been used heretofore which are not now and some things are now which may not be hereafter One that should move now in Parliament to have a Bill read again which hath already been read three times would not speed with his motion but be laughed at for his labour Yet heretofore Bills especially Bills of Subsidy were commonly read four times and sometimes oftener So Conferences between the Houses were commonly demanded to be by a certain number which is now never done nay would it not be thought a breach of Priviledge and an imposing upon the other House if it should be demanded Heretofore the House of Commons could not punish any of their own Members nor any body else that had broken their Priviledges but they made their complaints to the House of Lords and they did them justice but they will tell you it is not so used now and yet because it is not so now they will not make it an Argument that it was not so then nor deny the truth of an instance brought of what was done then No more can they with reason say the Clerk of the Parliament or the Master of the Rolls who by that Book Case appears to have declared such a thing to have been in those times the usage of Parliament said false because it is not so in these times The fourth objection is that the Clerk saith The Lords may increase Impositions also which part of the Case they said their Lordships thought not fit to cite It is true they did not cite it because that part of the Book-Case was out of the present Case the Lords not pretending to a power of increasing Impositions Nor is it strange if it was not then so clear but that the Lords might adde when once the Commons had begun a Tax though not begin one themselves which now is out of question upon better consideration by a necessary inference that as much as the Lords doe adde to any Imposition they doe for so much begin an Imposition though the Bill which charges the Subject begin not in their House And certainly they misplace the Querie in Brooke if they apply it to that part of this Case which concerns the Lords abating two years when the Commons had given four as any body may see that will peruse the passage It is Part 2. fol. 116. Tit. Parliament and Statutes 4. The Quaerie there is put onely to what is said of sending the Bill back againe to the Commons the words are Comme si les Commons graunte poundage pur quatuor ans et les Seigneurs graunt nisi pur deuxans ceo ne sera rebaile as Commons Quaere inde It appears what it is that he makes his Quaere by that which follows where he delivers his opinion of the forme used in the transmitting Bills from one House to an other He saith That if a Bill begin in the House of Lords and there pass they doe not use to indorse it but send it downe to the Commons and if thyy pass it it is then indorsed Les Commons sont assentans and this shews it had already passed the Lords and their assent is to what the Lords had passed upon which he infers Et ideo cest acte supra nest bon pur ceoque il ne fuit rebaile as Commons Therefore the Act above-mentioned is not good because it was not sent back to the Commons And this he makes to be his reason why it was not good because it was not sent back But he makes not any scruple at all of the Lords cutting off the two years This seems very plaine to have been his meaning Yet a Quaere may be put upon what Brooke himself saith that the Lords doe not use to endorse it if it begins with them for they doe write upon it now and certainly did then Soit baille aux Communs Then for Dyer Mic. 30 H. 8. 22. It is true the words are as they were quoted at the Conference and no body can deny what they import That the Commons doe grant but Dyer saith not that they doe it singly and alone without the Lords To give a true judgement of his meaning one must consider his end and scope in saying this it was to shew the difference betwixt the old
n. 35. where is said Les dits Grants et Communes granterent d'un assent a nostre dit Seignieur le Roy un Subside de Leines Cuirs Pealx lanutz c. pur terme de trois ans pleinement accompliz It is true that in the end of the Record it is said Purquelegrant nostre Seigneur le Roy a la requeste de sa Commune lour ad fait Pardon de plusour Articles d' Eyre For which Grant the King at the prayer of the Commons remits unto them many things for which they were or might be questioned in his Courts And so among the Petitions of the Commons in that Parliament n. 26. they pray That after the three years expired onely the old Custome may be levied And they pray Que nul Subside n'autre charge soit mis ne grante sur les Leines par les Marchaunts ne par nul autre de sorenaunt sins assent du Parlement That no Subsidy nor other Charge be laid neither by the Merchants nor any body else granted upon Wools henceforward without consent of Parliament And the answer is Il plest au Roy the King approves it Is there one word in this Record which makes for the Managers pretenses Doth it not expresly say That this Subsidy was granted by the Lords and Commons What the Commons make to be their desire afterwards upon it is nothing to the Grant But this appears by it that the Merchants sometimes granted such things without the Parliament as hath been said before for the Commons complain of it and petition against it here So the Subsidy granted 21 R. 2. n. 15. was not by the Commons alone for it was by the assent of the Bishops and Lords granted to the King during life those are the words of the Record and they signifie the same thing as if it had been said That the Lords and Commons had granted it This hath been already made out to the full and those Statutes of E. 6. formerly cited by the Manager himself are a proof of it irrefragable For that of ◠and 3 E. 6. says The Lords and Commons granted a Subsidy and the Statute of 3 and 4 E. 6. reciting that saith The Commons granted it with the assent of the Lords Which shews the meaning of the Parliament in those two differing expressions to be one and the same But the Manager tells us not what followed upon the grant of this Subsidy which was that the King gave a general Pardon and withall the Record saith Fist overt Declaration per son bouche de mesme que siles Seigneurs ou Cōes du Roialme qui viendront as Parlments en temps advenir mettent ou facent impediment ou distourbance a contraire del Grante du dite subside des Leins Quirs Peaux lanutz ensi grauntez a luy a terme de sa vie que adonques la dite Grace Pardon soit tout voide tout outrement adnulle Declared with his own mouth that if either the Lords or Commons should afterwards in any Parliament give impediment or disturbance to this Subsidy of Wool Leather and Woollfells so granted to him for his life that then the said Free Grace and Pardon should be wholly void and totally annulled So it seems the King thought that the Lords might make some alteration in the Subsidy as well as the Commons and feared it And the Commons themselves did not gainsay it which they would certainly have done if it had then been a general received Position that which hath now been so confidently asserted nay if it had then been but a question that the Lords might not meddle in any of these Subsidies nor hinder nor alter any thing which the Commons would do concerning them This was not for his turn and therefore he would take no notice of it But in truth the very Grant it self shews it to be the joint act of both Houses and that the Lords had an interest in it as well as the Commons For whoever must assent to a thing and that it cannot be disposed of without his assent must questionless have an interest in it The same is to be said of 2 H. 6. n. 14. 31 H. 6. n. 7 8 9 10. and 8 E. 4. n. 30. all run The Commons by assent of the Lords In the two first of H. 6. The Manager hath it seems been misled by the Exact Abridgement and not consulting the Rolls But that of 8 E. 4. is so in terminis in the Abridgement it self therefore it is some wonder how he came to mistake this and ranck it amongst those which he makes to run in the stile of being Granted by the Commons alone without any mention of the Lords As he doth also mistake that of the 3 E. 4. relying meerly upon the Print of 12 E. 4. c. 3. where it is indeed recited to be by the Commons alone But if he had resorted to the Record which only is an Authentick President he had seen that there it is in the same stile as all the rest It is n. 24. both in the Memorandum which is in Latin in these words Communes in praesenti Parlamento c. de assensu Dominorum Spiritualium Temporalium concesserunt c. And in the Indenture it self which is English We your poor Commons by the assent of all the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in this Parlament assembled grant c. And in the same Parliament two other Subsidies are granted in the same form one for a Fifteenth and a Tenth the other for 37000 l. And it may be boldly affirmed that ever since there hath been a House of Commons not one Subsidy hath ever been granted by them alone without the Lords But what he means by his President of Ireland 15 H. 7. we understand not For how can it signifie any thing as to the Parliament of England to be any rule to it or evidence of it or to hold any proportion with it be it never so much such as they would have it But then what will be said if it be found to be nothing so For there is awide difference betwixt saying The Commons give a Subsidy and saying That at the prayer of the Commons it is granted and enacted by authority of Parliament that a Subsidy be given And by that form of Expression they can no more be said to be the sole givers of a Subsidy than to be the sole makers of all the other Acts of Parliament in Ireland that were then made for they all run in the same stile c. 16. Prayen the Commons that it be enacted this present Parliament that every Lord shall appear in his Parliament Robes And c 17. Prayen the Commons that it be enacted That there be no Peace nor War made in the Land without the Lieutenants or the Deputies license So c. 20. Prayen the Commons that it be enacted that no persons use these words Cremabo Butlerabo words it seems which were used when they
Robbed and Plundered And all the other Acts of Parliament run so yet sure no body can think it was only their House of Commons that made those Laws but such was then the form and stile in the making of all their Laws All the rest of the Presidents cited by him in the times of H. 8. E. 6. Qu. M. Qu. Eliz. Car. 1. and Car. 2. are by his own confession still with the assent of the Lords and how little that makes for his purpose needs not that any more be said to it As for that of 1 Qu. Eliz. when the Lords did respite the payment of the Subsidy for some time as to Cheshire and Wales which is an undeniable President of their easing the Subject upon occasion it doth not at all alter the Case what was said of their address to the Queene and of the Entry in the Journall Booke of her pleasure signified for it For that was but a civill respect to her that they would not diminish her profit in any thing without acquainting her with it and the having her leave But still it was done by their authority and it was an Act of that House And the power to doe it was then well knowne as appears by the Petition of all the Inhabitants of Wales and Cheshire presented to the Lords for that purpose by the hands of the Knights and Burgesses serving for them in the House of Commons that Parliament nor would they else have Petitioned the Lords nor durst the Members of the House of Gommons that represented them in that House have delivered it But admit there were no Presidents of the Lords giving ease to the People and making abatements of a Change laide by the House of Commons whether upon Merchandize or any thing else and that noe complaint had ever beene and so no alteration or amendment ever made It doth not follow that therefore they have not power to doe it when there is cause for it and that there are complaints of Excesse or Inequality in a Tax as now there were complaints sufficient by all sorts of People who dealt in those Commodities upon which the Impositions had beene laide Planters Merchants and Tradesmen Therefore the Lords say they insist and rely more upon the Rationality and intruth Necessity of the thing for the good of the King and Kingdome then upon any President that can be for it And yet Presidents wee see there are several ones However they say it were enough for their justification if there be none against it and there could be but of one of these two kinds either that the Lords have of themselves disclaimed such a power or that it hath beene denyed them when they have claimed it and whoever sheweth one of either Erit mihi magnus Apollo By what hath beene said appears how little reason the Manager had to brag of a 300 years uninterrupted possession of this Priviledge claimed by the House of Commons to be the sole absolute and uncontrouled Taxers of the People not only in their Commerce and Trading but in all Money matters For to that large extent hath he now stretched the question which he narrowed in the beginning And so the Lords must not in any case interpose to give relief and ease to the People if there be never so much cause But either they must not joyne to give any Aide to the King and so the King be unsupplied or they must be made Instruments against their Judgements and against their certaine knowledge to oppress the People which all unequal Taxes doe So if they deny passage to the Bill the King suffers If they give it passage and make it a Law it wrings the People Yet this must be or else saith the Manager The Lords doe what in them lyes to put an end to all further Transactions betweene the Houses in matter of Money he might as well have said in all matters of Parliament for that must be the consequence And he is desired to consider where the fault will lye and who demands unreasonable things such as Nahash did of the men of Jabesh Gilead to thrust out their right eyes So would this even thrust out one of the eyes of the Parliament make the House of Lords to be nothing an insignificant thing of no use no advantage to the Kingdome Therefore it is hoped the consideration will be taken on the other side though an Item be given to the Lords to consider of it implying that since It may put an end to all transactions betweene the Houses in matter of Money the Lords should apprehend that the House of Commons might perhaps admit of no more Conferences in any business of this nature but would doe it of themselves without communicating it to them who then could not so much as take notice that such a thing was in agitation But there are Presidents that the Lords have of themselves uncalled taken notice of and interposed in debates of that nature which have beene in the House of Commons And when contests and differences have risen there and that the House of Commons could not come to any resolution among themselves they have composed and setled the business and have directed and appointed what should be done As 3 H. 6. The Commons with the Lords assent had granted a Subsidy of 33 s. 4 d. upon every Sack of Wool as much upon every 240 Woolfells 3 s. upon a Tun of Wine and upon all other Merchandize 12 d. in the pound under the condition saith the Record That every Merchant stranger coming into the Kingdome should within 15 dayes be under Hoost and within 40 dayes after his being so under Hoost should sell off all his Merchandize and what after that remained unsold should be forfeited to the King and likewise should pay forty three shillings four pence that was 10 s. more than the English upon every Sack of Wool and every 240 Woolfells And if these conditions were not observed the whole grant of Tunnage and Poundage of the English Merchant to be void and of no value These Conditions it seems were not observed and great stir there was about it in the House of Commons the next Parliament which was 4 H. 6. as appears by the Record which saith thus Item pro eo qd inter Cōes Parlamenti praedicti diversae opiniones de super concessione levatione Subsidii Tonagii Pondagii Domino Regi in Parlamento suo ultimo tento concessi motae fuerunt ut dicebatur subortae visa tandem diligenter examinata forma concessionis Subsidii praedicti in praesenti Parlamento habita quoque inde Justiciar aliorum Legis peritorum deliberatione matura consideratum fuit plenius declaratum per magnificum Principem Ducem Bedeord Commissarium Domini Regis ac faeteros Dominos Spirituales Temporales in eodem praesenti Parlamento existentes qd Subsidium praedictum ad opus praefati Domini Regis omnino esset solvendum levandum aliquibus