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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A17505	A replie vnto a certaine libell, latelie set foorth by Fa: Parsons, in the name of vnited priests, intituled, A manifestation of the great folly and bad spirit, of certaine in England, calling themselues seculer priestes VVith an addition of a table of such vncharitable words and phrases, as by him are vttered in the said treatise, aswell against our parsons, as our bookes, actions, and proceedings.	Clark, William, d. 1603.; Barneby, Francis. aut; Clarionet, William, attributed name.	1603 (1603)	STC 4321; ESTC S107159	173,407	232

to the naturall disposition of the writer which being if a defect yet a defect in nature is not to be so much condemned But howsoeuer fa Parsons in this worke hath cried quittance as by the table of his words and phrases in the end of this reply you may see and therefore he may the better rest satisfied therein In his discourse heereof hee so ruffleth as if it were a Pedante amongst his scholers or that he had Ma. Watson on the hippe to crush him at his pleasure whereas indeed he hath for the most part either altered his words in reciting them mistaken and misconstrued his meaning or stretched the words and phrases farther then theyr proper sence by him intended I will alledge you some examples And first in the Epistle to the Quodlibets page 8. Ma. Watson writeth thus If that by way of quodlibet or Thesis proposed a man may without blasphemie sinne scandall or any offence in the world aske whether God or the deuil be to be honored whether our sauiour Christ could sin or no whether our blessed Lady were an adulteresse or common woman or not and withall to bring arguments pro et contra for auerring or impugning the same then to put foorth a question whether a Seminary priest or a Iesuit ought sooner to be credited cannot iustly incurre any reprehension or blame Which speech cannot be contradicted all questions in scholes being lawfull to be proposed and arguments brought on both sides so that the conclusion be in the defence and approbation of truth and verity But marke how fa Parsons citeth the said words He setteth them forth in this sort In this kinde of writing it is lawfull for him to dispute whether God or the deuill be to be honored whether our blessed Lady were an adultresse or common woman or not c. and then mightily inueigheth against him as of an audatious and impudent spirited person for proposing and putting in print such questions O the honesty of father Parsons VVhereas Maister Watson by way of supposall If a man may aske such questions without sinne scandall c then á fortiore is it lawfull to put the questions following hee maketh him to say that it is lawfull for him to dispute whether God or the deuill be to be honoured c. therby to turne the sence more odious and euill sounding which is but a very Iesuiticall tricke For although euen as Fa Parsons saith it be lawfull pro et contra to dispute those questions if iust occasion be offered or in schooles for the exercise of learning c yet as he hath altered the speech you see the sence more vnpleasing then in the former For he doth not propound them as questions but onely saith that if in the schooles such questions may be propounded If he insist vppon the naming of such things in print he doth but cauill For who knoweth not that many such questions are disputed by the Schoolemen in print Againe where Ma. Watson maketh a discourse of the fall of all religious orders in former times from theyr first puritie and feruencie which discourse is most true as we see before our eyes in the Benedictins Dominicans Franciscans Augustines and other orders where they are not of late reformed how farre they differ from the puritie and pietie of their first institution in theyr founders dayes this discourse fa Parsons will haue to be distorted against all religious men and theyr orders simply as affirming them to be all corrupted Thirdly where he preferreth seculer priests in England before Iesuits and other religious persons as well in preferment of degree worthines of person and superioritie in place as also in the state of perfection hee saith it proceedeth of the spirit of pride emulation ignorance temerity and folly and that the doctrine is against S. Tho. of Aquine S. Chrisostome and others not quoting the places where But I will say to Fa. Parsons and stand vnto it that for him or any Iesuit to defend the contrary is therein to shew their pride and ignorance For in chalenging place aboue their betters both in degree and honour in Gods Church is contrary to all custome and law of the Church as Ma D●ct Elye in his answer to the Apologie hath shewed at large Howsoeuer some men may make question betweene parochus in genere and a religious person and the states of both which the Sorbonists defined on the pastors behalfe yet no man can doubt betwixt a religious state and ours in England where we are daily prepared to giue our liues for our flock of which Christ himselfe sayth Maiorem charitatem nemo habet vt ponat quis animam suam pro amicis suis And therefore the state of Iesuits or any other order whatsoeuer is not to be compared with the state of our Priests in England let Fa Parsons infringe this proposition if hee can But to make the case more plaine and euident we will put this generall axiome or ground that no man may leaue a more perfect state to goe vnto the lesse perfect being in vow bound vnto the more perfect but any religious man may leaue their Monasteries and domesticall discipline yea and in some cases are bound therto for the health of their neighbours soule as for example if there be no other meanes probable of his recouerie therefore to cooperate with Christ in the gaining of soules is a more perfect state then the profession of any particuler order of discipline or religion For to that end a state is said to be more or lesse perfect because it supposeth more or lesse perfection but that state of life supposeth more perfection which supposeth such inflaming charity as to be ready to giue their lyues for their neighbours spirituall good then that which onely seeketh his owne good therefore the life of a Priest in England which supposeth such a charity and such a resolution as to be ready to die for the good spirituall of his flocke is more perfect then a religious life which onely attendeth to himselfe and therefore supposeth no more then obedience obseruance of rules and ordinary charity Furthermore religion is but the way or meanes to perfection and therefore a man entreth into religion because hee would become perfect but that state wherein a man hath dedicated his life for his neighbours saluation is not a way or meanes to perfection but supposeth the highest and greatest perfection in this life therefore the state of a secular priest in England is more perfect then any religious state in the world Yet doth it not follow that euery priest is more perfect then a Iesuit or other religious man no more then it followeth that euery Bishop because of his state of perfection is more perfect then any priest or euery Iesuit then any Lay man because euery man liueth not according to the state he professeth And thus much for Ma. Watsons propositions in the grace preferment of the state of priests in England Fourthly

compasse of particuler faculties and extraordinary dispensations which are proper to all pastors in generall As for example to giue leaue to eate white meats in Lent or at other times to dispence with such as haue reasonable cause for fasting VVhich cases they had drawn vnto themselues making Priests to seeke for theyr faculties yeerely at theyr hands when as in very deede this faculty belongeth vnto the Priests ex ordinaria potestate quatenus sunt pastores and not to the Iesuits but extraordinarily onely by way of indulgence as coadiutors vnto vs as happeneth in all other exemptions or faculties which they possesse As touching the third part of the first Paragraffe that it is beaten into the heads of diuers that Masse is not rightly sayd but of a Iesuit sure I am and I thinke all the world knoweth it to be true that they haue such tricks and pollicies to put some such extraordinarie conceits into Catholicks heads that I see not but in some part this assertion may be verified For they haue theyr men and followers or precursors in places where they come who must suggest it for a strange and extraordinarie matter to be present at theyr Masses and that euery Cath that shall come vnto any of them to confesse communicate shall haue I know not what plenatie indulgences for the first time Let but the indifferent Reader iudge whether this kinde of practise be not a prety Iesuiticall tricke to suggest such strange conceits of them and theyr administrations of Sacraments or saying of Masses aboue others And whether they haue any such extraordinary indulgences or no graunted vnto them I know not But this I am sure that if there be any such it sauoureth somewhat of too much pollicie as thereby to draw a greater opinion of men towards them then to others VVhich might giue sufficient occasion to suspect the verity of any such peculier graunt vnto thē from the Sea Apostolicke Yet this must be more then petie-treason to call any faculty of theyrs into question though great reason may moue me thereto which in them to do by others must be accounted but a religious care and prouidence to auoyd imposture I might heere also alledge the seditious Treatise of Wiseman called The three farwells tending to no other end but to draw mens conceits wholy to this one point that nothing is sufficiently done which proceedeth not from a Iesuit or such an one as is gouerned in all things by them But because this is more particulerly intreated of in the late booke of Quodlibets writ by Ma. Watson I refer the Reader thether Now will I leaue you to iudge whether wee haue not some cause to belieue the accusations of Fisher if the Memoriall was of his deuise in part to be true and not so voyd of ground or reason as Ma. Parsons would haue you beleeue But to proceed yet farther with this confident Fa in his own cause Perhaps hee thinketh euery bare assertion that comes from his Mastership should be had as an Oracle with all men though otherwise neuer so absurd and vntrue Howbeit let vs track him in his folly and see what hee can say to the Accusations following No Iesuit goeth to visite anie in England or trauaileth from one place to another but he is richly apparelled and attended on with a great traine of seruants as if hee were a Baron or an Earle This paragraph also our good Fa shufleth off with an interrogation sct vvhether in our conscience this be true Would you not think by this kinde of confident ostentation in Ma Parsons that this imputation were more then sottish yea malitious without all ground or showe of ground in the world Yet if by some examples I doe not manifestly shew this to be grounded vpon some true and reall experience beleeue me not in the rest First I will but referre you vnto all the Priests Cath that liued in England in Fa Hawoods time of liberty and knew him and his manners and fashions well and if they doe not assure you that his port and carriage was more Baronlike then priestlike all the world will condemne them for most partiall and impudent deniers of the truth Was he not wont to ride vp and downe the Country in his Coach had he not both seruants and priests attendants that did hang on his sleeue in great numbers did he not indict Counsels make and abrogate lawes vvas not his pompe such as the places where he came seemed petie-Courts by his presence his traine and followers See whether heere be not one notable example of excesse at which Fa Parsons himselfe was wont to carpe there being emulation betweene them about his superiority and the others exemption Againe for present I referre you vnto Fa Garnets pompe and expences of which I haue heard some honest priests who haue beene much with him report that he cannot spend lesse then 500. pound by the yeere But wee will not much stand vpon his pompe or expences because being prouinciall of his order he will claime a prelacie and therefore more honour and more pompe although our times and case well considered will scant tolerate such excesse But let vs come I pray you vnto some priuate men of their order and his subiects The mighty and extraordinarie excesse of Ma Iohn Gerard hath beene such and so notorious that I suppose few priests besides other Cath to be ignorant thereof His apparrell at one time hath beene valued at a higher rate then I will for shame speake of which he hath had in store as it hath been reported by such as were well acquainted there-with his church stuffe was worth no lesse then 200. marks and the last time he was taken losing but such stuffe as was onely portable I referre me to the officers that seazed thereon for the value thereof his horses were many and of no small price My selfe haue knowne him to haue two Geldings in a Gentlemans stable at 30. pound a Gelding besides others else-where and horses of good vse S. Ambrose in times of necessity would breake Chalices and other precious vessels of the Church to relieue the wants of poore Christians but these men in the great afflictions miseries wants of afflicted poore Cath may possesse not onely superaboundance of Church stuffe but also great excesse of apparell horses iewels et quid non Whilest others starue in prison and abroad without scruple of conscience and this quia Dominus opus habet You will imagine that the expences of this man could not be very small that was thus richly furnished and I beleeue as much and for experience thereof I will set downe his expences during his imprisonment in the Clincke well knowne to diuers that liued there with him by which you may gesse at the rest During his being there in durance liuing as a close prisoner in shew though with more fauour then any other howsoeuer the matter hapned which we will not wrest vnto

betters the worthy congregation of the Inquisition vnto whom it is dedicated and presented And as for his carping at the similitude of the man casting out deuils in Christes name I will let it passe for him to take his aduantage as he list and make his owne exposition For I verily thinke that euery wise man that readeth his interpretation thereof will discouer more folly in him for his applycation not intended by the Writer in that sence but onely a simili then in him that first alledged the example And for our accepting or seeking of fauour at the hands of Protestants and our Gouernours in temporalities I think no man can condemne vs therein vnlesse he will also condemne the practizes of all times of persecution both in the time of the law of Moses and also since Christ In the 28. page he citeth certaine words of the Epistle to the Important considerations wherein it is affirmed that there is no sinne arising vpon infirmitie and frailty of man committed by an Apostata an Infidell an Hereticke a Schismatike an Atheist cast out of the fauour of God and accursed out of his Church but a Cath may fall into the same and yet remaine constant in his religion to death This father Parsons affirmeth to be a false assertion And therein say I that fa Parsons manifesteth more folly then all the follies hee noteth in all our writings put thē all together to say nothing of his ignorance or simplicitie For it is a matter certaine and de fide that a man hath free wil vnto all kinde of sinnes and it is no lesse manifest that sinnes of infirmitie and frailty neuer cut a man off from Gods Church Neither can infidelitie heresie or schisme be termed sinnes of infirmitie or frailtie but of malice For no man can be an Infidell heretick or schismatick without obstinacie and pertinacity of will which cannot be called frailtie Therefore may a Catholicke commit of frailty any sin that an Infidell hereticke or Schismaticke committeth remaining still a resolute catholick And this we see daily by experience all Catholicks being not saints See therefore vvhat learning fa Parsons dropped out heere and what store of wisedome hee shewed in contradicting so manifest a truth Now will I leaue the Reader duly to consider whether our follies in relating such things as heere and in the first chapter fa Parsons obiecteth being vrged thereto vpon necessity in defence of our innocencie be greater or his in cunning iugling and shifting alwaies flying the true and reall poynt of controuersie and carping at by-matters and for his aduantage reporting our words and speeches falsly and otherwise then they were deliuered by vs. Whereby we haue been enforced as you see to take him tripping to his eternall disgrace if he haue any grace left which we had not done if his ouermuch boldnesse had not made him run himselfe out of breath forgetting all truth honestie and sinceritie An aunswer to the third ●●●pter concerning our pretended follie and presumptuous spirit in making to ur selues such aduersaries as we doe IN father Parsons handling of this chapter I cannot but wonder at his exceeding ouersight in that he admiring so greatly our follies would so palpably discouer his owne For what man I beseech you of wit or vnderstanding would vrge the contradicting of our Archpriests vniust oppressions our exclaming against the Iesuits vncharitable courses against our selues and condemning their vnnaturall practises against their prince and state our resisting of the King of Spaines attempts against our Country our displaying the cruelty of Spanish Souldiers the tyrannie of their gouernment to auert the minds of all naturall English men from all vaine and mad expectations of any good by their inuasions as foolish occasions giuen by vs to make to our selues enemies of our Archp the Iesuits and the King of Spaine What great potent person is Ma. Blackwell in the world that he may not be contradicted when hee doth amisse Is it lawfull to resist and appeale from a Bishop an Archbishop a Patriarch and is it not lawfull to appeale from an Archpriest Must iustice be afraid of bugges If any irreuerent speeches haue beene vttered where they should not haue beene we are sorry for it and let your payment made to the full in the same kind cancell ours But otherwise for our proceedings against Ma Blackwell our Archpriest wee doe and will defend them and you in all your discourse in his behalfe seeme to draw more from vs vnto him then euer was due to any subordinate Superiour in the world vnlesse you would put infallibility in euery gouernour without the which no such bands can be but that iust exceptions may be taken against them and appeales there-vpon framed prosecuted as you see in our case is admitted Concerning your potent order such vizards are for children and temporisers and not for men of our profession who should in euery cause preferre iustice and right before potencie and might We know many in your order to be apt to remember old quarells and to pay home when aduantage time serueth and we looke for no other at your hands But what then Shall we therefore desist to prosecute iustice and hinder your exorbitant endeuours Shall I hold my tongue because Fa Parsons may worke me a shrewd turne if I come into Spaine or Italy No no non confundar pro anima mea dicere verum I will God willing vtter nothing but truth and necessary truth and that shall out let Fa Parsons threat what he can And touching the Spaniards they are professed enemies to our Prince and Country and seeke nothing more then our subuersions As they are Cath in Christian charity we wil loue them but as enemies to our Country we contemne them and will with our bloods resist them And as I suppose we haue not onely right so to doe in respect of our Countries defence but also iure gentium in that they were the first breakers of the league betwixt vs and them as by their attempt in Ireland in the yeere 1579 may appeare to omit the plot of Robert Rodulphi some yeeres before But in this Fa Parsons plainly discouereth his loue and affection towards his Country and what a treacherous minde he carieth towards his true and naturall Prince in that he seeketh to draw her naturall subiects to keepe amity and beare affection towards her professed aduersarie and the onely enemie of our Country Howsoeuer false harted he be yet was it a point of exceeding great folly for him so openly to discouer the same that now no man of wit or discretion and loue to his Prince and Country which euery naturall borne English is bound to haue can iudge other of him then as a professed enemie vnto them both And touching the Colledges and Pensions that are maintained and giuen by the Spaniard which he so oft inculcateth we no whit thanke him for them as things are handled and occasions thereby ministred of

Spaniards who then must be our good Maisters and of like the greatest number at the least in all authorities both in Court Country as in conquests happeneth and all men know the Spaniards to be the most licentious people in Europe especially the souldier Where is now your ground fa Parsons of an easie reformation but commonly great folly and blindnes followeth pride euen in the wisest men And if father Parsons say that this Treatise of Reformation was not intended vppon any conquest although it is euident that it was yet is it both foolish and arrogant Foolish in that hee buildeth Castles in the ayre knowing neither when by whom nor how the reduction of our country shall happen and therefore an hundreth to one that his foolish Chimeras will be either forgot or cōtemned when that time happeneth Arrogant in that thereby he seemeth to think that at such times our coūtry should want men of wisedome or piety or both to see what will be then conuenient and put the same in execution vnlesse he prescribe them before hand tell them what they must do But to open a little more in particuler his great folly heerein such as haue read the said Treatise beeing priests and men of credite vnto some of whom Fa Parsons himselfe shewed the said booke as secretly as now it is kept doe report that his directions are that the municipall lawes of our Country shall be so altered that the Ciuill lawes must beare the sway And this is the more probable because hee shuffleth it of saying little or nothing to this obiection nor bringing in one word of the Memoriall in proofe hereof or of the disposition of the Innes of Court how they should be imploied though he toucheth both but so as if he were afraid to shew what he hath written thereof for shame For our Clergie also they say that all men should be put to pensions in the beginning and the Colledges both in Oxford and Cambridge in the same sort depriued of theyr lands and reuenues and becom pensioners And this hath beene maintained to my selfe by some of his fauourites as a thing necessary with great vehemencie both for edification as also the disposing of the ouerplus to other good vses in the behalfe of the Church And that which is sayd heere to this purpose in excuse hereof is so little and nothing at all of Colledges that it is apparant he was vnwilling to manifest his follies therein VVhat he sayth of the King and Counsell hee will not tell you for doubtlesse it is good stuffe Of the nobility hee leaueth out what he hath said concerning theyr pompe traine reuenues and diet concerning the inferiour nobility which is our gentry as Knights Esquires and Gentlemen he noteth her Maiestie indirectly with oppression and contempt thereof to her dishonour which sheweth his pride and carelesse cariage towards all sorts Touching religious orders which hee noteth as a member of his diuision of the Clergie in his Epistle he sayth not one word at all but shuffleth it off as forgotten because therin he should haue discouered his loue and affection to all orders of religious people besides his owne All which orders one order onely excepted he excludeth out of England as they affirme for the first seauen yeeres or more that Maister Iesuits in the meane time might haue the sway of all and enter into the houses liuings and possessions of other religious orders if they could Thus he shuffleth and cutteth sparing no estate and yet heere he citeth you some fragments of the best stuffe he could picke out of that proude pamphlet to make you belieue that his indeuours therein were holy and zealous meerely for the good of Gods church his country Sometimes he calleth them excellent notes and obseruations and so proudly extolleth himselfe therein as he dareth to affirme though like a stage-player he taketh vppon him an other person then his owne that the contradictors of this his fantasticall worke haue neither vertue nor ability to imitate him Certainly the man hath a great conceite of his owne dooings and is too much ouercarried with partialitie and ouerweening of himselfe For otherwise let any man of iudgement and indifferencie duly weigh euen that which he hath cited himselfe in the best manner out ●f the aforesaide Treatise and hee will iudge it to be but p●oude and foolish stuffe and meere Chimericall conceits ●owsoeuer they carry a shew of religious reformation for that some of them are inconuenient and all without his sphere But to leaue these his foolish vanities let vs see what hee sayth in the behalfe of his booke of Succession First in excuse thereof he sayth that it came forth with the consent of Cardinall Allen and his liking and approbation which we assure our selues to be a malicious calumniation of the worthy Cardinall deceased For is it like that hee who so mightily disliked the Oration made by a young scholler in Valledolid wherein the title and right of England was offered vp into the Kings hands together with themselues and theyr parents is it like I say that he would approue this seditious booke wherein all right to the Crowne of our country is cast vppon the Infanta of Spaine Who in the world will belieue this But it is a fashion with father Parsons to father his sedicious practises and foolish actions vppon other worthy men commonly such as are dead as you may see by the multitude of dead mens Letters cited in the Apologie Howsoeuer he would draw the Cardinall into this work wee knowe that his affection in his latter dayes was not so great towards him as to concurre with him in any such fond intentions Adde to this that Fa Parsons hauing written this treatise and shewing the same to two reuerend priests when it was but in papers one after another both of them disliking and disswading him from the publishing thereof hee promised that it should not be printed But you will easily think that if he had obtained the Cardinalls approbation he would little haue regarded their opinions or promised to haue suppressed it as he did but would quickly haue satisfied them with his good liking and applause And where he saith that some of our selues at the first shewed liking thereof howsoeuer some one or other not seeing into the drift of it might ignorantly like the discourse sure I am that none of iudgement looking into it seriously euer liked it And I am sure that both my sel●● and diuers others of more experience vtterly disliked and condemned it from the beginning as diuers know But 〈◊〉 Parsons wise and graue iudgement esteemeth our heads greene and therefore he saith we carpe at that we vnderstand not Indeede it is to walke in a maze and a labyrinth of cares to follow his turbulent braines in all his sedicious intentions And yet by his leaue this was but a proud speech of his for all the world knoweth that some if not the

he citeth Ma. Watson to say that their order is no religion and the persons thereof neither secular nor religious This is falsly auerred against Ma. Watson for in diuers places of this book he confesseth it to be an approued order only heere he sayth that as they now vse the matter according to the manner of life amongst some of them and their politick courses in the world they are neyther religious nor secular because they shew themselues to be the one in name and the other in practise And euen in that place he doth commend their founders principles which hee sayth many of them peruert and corrupt in practise see the place page 61. Fiftly hee alleadgeth places out of Ma. Watson wishing some Iesuits to leaue the order which hee noteth in him as counselling to Apostasie which is most false First in that he doth not absolutly counsell it but vpon supposition of bad courses that many good natures and men otherwise of good parts are drawne into to auoid so great euils which is charity Secondly to counsell to forsake the order of the Iesuits is not to counsell to Apostasie in that all Iesuits may freely leaue the order before the last vow which few in respect of the multitude haue taken and such onely he counselleth to come out of their order as Ma. Iohn Gerard c. For otherwise Ma. Wright Fa. Arden Cardinall Montalt● his Theologo Fa. 〈…〉 were Apostataes which is malicious to affirme Neither is the Iesuits order as other orders are and were in S. Bernards time from whence after their first vow which is after a yeeres probation they can neuer depart and therefore S. Bernards words cited serue him to no purpose at all We will let passe his vncharitable and slaunderous suspicion that a notorious Apostata or two haue had their fingers in compiling the Quodlibets for these calumnations you see are as familiar with him as his familiar spirit Sixtly hee noteth out of the Quodlibets certaine inuectiues against their singularity of choise in the admitting of such as would enter into their Society which soundeth as if Ma Watson had inueighed against the spirit of discretion probation in such as are admitted wherein hee peruerteth his sence as all the precedent discourse sheweth For indeede he onely inueigheth against their temporall and politick respects in their admittance which is too too frequent with them if the party that would enter be not eyther of great parentage and friends much wealth great qualities of learning c. or very practicall in the world and of extraordinarie wit he is not for them But if he haue any of them or be of any extraordinary expectance they will not onely easily admit him but earnestly seeke after him This partiality and these respects doth Ma. Watson speake against which in very deede are not tolerable in any religious order instituted not for policie but for perfection and therefore ought to be open to all sorts the meanest as soone as the greatest the simplest as soone as the wisest And for his marginall note that diuers of that crew meaning the priests haue been refused by Gods prouidence and wisedome of the fathers that foresaw their conditions I will assure Fa Parsons for his better information heerein that diuers of vs haue beene particulerly dealt with-all by the Iesuits as well in their exercise as otherwise to haue drawne vs vnto their Society yea and some of vs haue felt their auersions because wee refused How oft hath this complaint beene made against them in Rome for solliciting the Scholers to become Iesuits Seauenthly hee sayth that Ma Watson would haue new lawes made for the inflicting of greeuous punishments vpon such as should send their children to the Seminaries which is a notorious falshood Onely he sayth that Fa. Parsons dealing with the S●udents concerning the Infanta her tytle to the Crowne of England which is a matter of treason may and is likely to giue occasion of more seuere proceedings or stricter lawes concerning such by reason that now he is head and director and manager of all the Seminaries and missions reade the place page 179. 180. Eightly he bringeth in a marginall note of Ma. Watsons against detraction as a most dangerous sinne which hee applieth against him because of his cholericke inueighing against Fa Parsons a little before concerning a letter writ by him from Naples Indeede I confesse that I wish he had not beene so hote but yet this I say that hauing seene the foresayd letter of Fa Parsons it is so wicked so vncharitable and so vile a letter that no man liuing I thinke but would spet at it if he should but heare it reade You may see part of it cited the 128 page of the Quodlibets and I assure you verbatim for I haue reade the letter it selfe which if you reade you will excuse much Ma. Watsons choler Ninthly he sayth that in the 134. and 135. page Ma. Watson affirmeth the Iesuits doctrine to be erroneous and hereticall for that they teach the Popes ordinations to be obeyed This vntruth is exceeding grosse for there is no one such word in the places cited as you may reade nor any speech at all of the Popes ordinances onely hee calleth such doctrine as to teach men to back-bite slaunder and detract those that are opposite to the Iesuits designes as also sedicious medling with the affaires of Princes teaching innouations rebellions inuasions conspiracies c. erroneous false and hereticall doctrine which no man dare to denie Tenthly hee maketh Ma. Watson to say in the page 150. that wee meane to abstract matters of succession for our Realme from matters of religion and this also is a notorious falsification For he onely sayth that matters of gouernment succession state affaires are cleerely abstracted from poynts of faith and religion which is a position so true as no man can infringe it I will omit his foolish cauill at a desired quiet in a frownd on state as ridiculous wishing the Reader to peruse the place and he shall finde it to be a most honest and a discreet speech I will also let passe his scoffing at Puny and other speeches of Ma. Watsons concerning the preferring of priests before Iesuits as they are onely religious persons which beeing a very discreet and true discourse in him is foolishly gybed at by fa Parsons as if you read the whole discourses 51. and 117. you shall see What hee alledgeth onely by way of quotation page 12 13 17 38 133 194 25 concerning the discouery of many Gentlewomen and noble personages or sedition set betwixt the houses of Arundell Howards Dacres or the threatning of Catholicks with new persecutions or barking byting and leaping in the faces of the Iesuits is eyther false no such matter or friuolous and of no importance tending to no such wickednesse as hee noteth Read the places in the Quodlibets aboue cited and then iudge Eleuenthly hee noteth the words of Ma.