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order_n	day_n	king_n	year_n	2,858	5	4.6272	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62284	The reformation of the Church of England justified according to the canons of the Council of Nice, and other general councils, and the tradition of the Catholick Church being an answer to a paper reprinted at Oxford, called (The schism of the Church of England) demonstrated in four arguments, formerly proposed to Dr. Gunning and Dr. Pearson the late bishops of Ely and Chester, by two Catholick disputants, in a celebrated conference upon that point : in which answer the unworthy and false dealings of the papists are shewed, and the charge of schism returned upon them, and the Church of England proved truly Catholick and apostolick in her doctrine and constitution / by Dr. Saywell.	Saywell, William, 1643-1701.	1688 (1688)	Wing S804; ESTC R34023	26,158	36

Place Hodgkins was only a Suffragan but communicated with these three in the Consecration and therefore became a Schismatick As our Author does only in this Argument vary in Form and Circumstance from his former Arguments so I must apply the same Answer for Substance to his Assertions Day and Veysey were justly set aside in King Edward's Days for not consenting to the Decree of the major part of the Bishops as appears by the Protector 's Letter to Bishop Gardner in Dr. Burnet's Collection and Bishop Scory and Coverdale were by the consent of the Archbishop and Bishops Regularly settled in their Places in peaceable Times wherein no Cruelties were exercised no Man was put to Death for his Religion and only that Discipline was used to turn out those that would not quietly submit to the Determinations of the major part of the Bishops of the Province and as for Bishop Barlow he was Consecrated a Bishop of this Church near ' twenty Years before in King Henry the Eighth's Days and so was Bishop Hodgkins Suffragan at Bedford So that we have the Four Consecrators of Archbishop Parker duly consecrated in quiet Times by the Archbishop and Bishops of the Province and therefore endued with the undoubted Power both of Order and Jurisdiction beyond all Dispute Therefore unless any can shew a better Title not only the Power of Order which they did Confer but of Jurisdiction also must be unquestionable and consequently the whole Succession of English Bishops ever since is exactly Regular and Canonical The only Pretenders to a better Title were those fourteen Popish Bishops set aside by Queen Elizabeth But these four Mens Title is more Firm and Ancient than theirs for the Popish Bishops were either such as were legally Deposed and thrust themselves afterwards in the Places of the Lawful Bishops and then put many of them to Death or all else but Bishop Thirlby were ordained by or communicated with them during their Schism and Usurpation and therefore neither the Ordainers nor Ordained had any Right or Jurisdiction in the Church of England so that Bishop Barlow Bishop Scory Bishop Coverdale being undoubted Regular Bishops of the Church of England at King Edward's Death and all that was done in Queen Mary's Days being acted by Bishops that had no Lawful Jurisdiction the Regular Authority of Ordaining and Conferring Jurisdiction as well as Order was devolved to them and they might take Bishop Hodgkins into their Assistance to add the greater Solemnity to their Ordination so that those Fourteen were so far from being Regular Bishops of the Church of England that they will not be able to clear themselves of Schism Murder and the damnable Heresy of the Deposing Doctrine 'T is very unreasonable therefore that the Bishops of the Church of England should be charged with Schism for declining their Authority so long as they have a Regular Succession from the undoubted Lawful Bishops who were free from any such foul Guilt or Suspicion and the Clergy were so well satisfied with their Authority that of 9400 above 9200 did really submit to it and heartily embrace the Reformation and the Queen Nobility Gentry and the whole Kingdom as I said before did willingly and joyfully adhere to their Communion and for ten or eleven Years lived in Peace and Unity till the Pope by his Bull of Excommunication and Deposition made a Disturbance The fourth Argument WHosoever Subject themselves unto these as their Lawful Pastors who have no Jurisdiction over them are Schismaticks But English Protestants ever since Queen Elizabeth's Time have Subjected themselves to these as their Lawful Pastors who have no Jurisdiction over them Therefore c. are Schismaticks The second Proposition he proves because we had no Regular Succession at home nor derived none from abroad and could have none from Rome Constantinople or any other Church But all this is founded upon a false and groundless Supposition Whereas we had Four True Lawful Regular Bishops with full Power of Order and Jurisdiction from whom we derive our Succession and might have had many more had not they unjustly put them to Death and so needed not any Assistance from Rome or Constantinople or any Place else And as for the Coustitution of our Church it is established by Divine Right committed to us by Succession from Christ and his Apostles and we Act by the Power we received from the Holy Ghost for the Pastoral Charge the Care of Souls the Right and Power of Baptizing and Consecrating the Eucharist the Power of binding and loosing the Power of Ordination c. are all Spiritual Offices received from God. Neither do we derive them from any secular Magistrates but from the Bishops of the Province according to the constant Tradition of the Church which St. Cyprian says did descend down from Divine Tradition and Apostolical Observation and the Council of Nice and other General Councils Approve and Confirm the same And as for many of the Formalities that are used in the first Nomination Election and Confirmation of Bishops they were not observed by Christ and his Apostles nor commanded by the Church and so are accidental Ceremonies Appointed by the State to testify their good liking of the Person that as the Church doth think him well qualify'd and fit to be Preferred to such a Sacred Office so the State is well satisfied that he is a Man that will be Useful and Faithful to the Temporal Government which is agreeable to the Apostles Direction that he should have a good report of them that are without But still that which is Essential and the Authority and Power to execute the Sacred Office of a Bishop or Priest in their respective Charges is derived from the Bishops of the Province and after great Violence and Disorder from as many or the major part of them which survive And this Method is established and allowed by the Catholick Church as long as Provincial and National Churches keep to her Faith and Unity as Ours has done So that every Bishop and Priest orderly constituted in his Place does act by the Power and Appointment of the Catholick Church and they contemn the Catholick Church that desert and disturb them in the Performance of their Office Hence we may understand our Saviour's meaning when he says if he neglect to hear the Church let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican Which in the first Place does require us to hear our own particular Parish Priest and Bishop while they are Constituted and live in the Unity of the Church but principally if does oblige us to hearken to the Catholick Church So that if our own Pastors turn Hereticks or set themselves up by undue means and not according to the Order of the Church they are not to be hearkned to but we must according to our Saviour's Command here the Church and not those Pastors that will not themselves hear and obey the

THE REFORMATION OF THE Church of England Justified according to the Canons of the Council of Nice and other General Councils and the Tradition of the Catholick Church BEING AN ANSWER to a Paper reprinted at Oxford called the SCHISM of the Church of England Demonstrated in four ARGUMENTS formerly Proposed to Dr. Gunning and Dr. Pearson the late Bishops of Ely and Chester by two Catholick Disputants in a celebrated Conference upon that Point In which Answer the unworthy and false dealings of the PAPISTS are shewed and the Charge of SCHISM returned upon them and the CHURCH of ENGLAND proved truly Catholick and Apostolick in her Doctrine and Constitution By Dr. Saywell CAMBRIDGE Printed by John Hayes Printer to the University For Edward Hall Bookseller there And are to be sold by Luke Meredith at the Angel in Amen-Corner London 1688. TO THE READER READER THOU hadst not now been troubled with the following Papers if a Relation of part of a pretended Conference with Bishop Gunning late Lord Bishop of Ely and Bishop Pearson late Lord Bishop of Chester had not been afresh Reprinted at Oxford and sent abroad into the World as a piece unanswerable by these two Eminent Prelates of our Church In which tho' there be nothing new and which has not been long ago answer'd yet to satisfie the World about the Truth of that Matter and to remove any prejudice that some might otherwise conceive concerning these Learned and Pious Bishops I will give a short account as near as I can at this distance of time of the Matter of Fact and then proceed to a particular Answer to the several Arguments in order as they lie The Conference was managed in writing about 30 Years ago and by mutual agreement nothing was to be made Publick without the allowance and consent of both Parties But such was the disingenuity and unworthiness of one of the Romish Disputants that contrary to the Faith and Promise he had made he sets forth a Book and pretends it to be an account of the Conference with Bishop Gunning and Bishop Pearson when he had left out changed and misplaced Matters as he pleased himself insomuch that his Partner was very much ashamed of his dishonest and unfaithful Dealing and did utterly condemn him for what he had done and renounced his having been engaged in approving or consenting to such a hase and disingenuous Proceeding and did openly own and acknowledge so much to the Persons concerned An account whereof was given to the World by Mr. Thomas Smith of Christ-College in Cambridge in a little Book called a Gagg for the Quakers with an Answer to Mr. Denn's Quaker no Papist Lond. Printed for J. C. and are to be sold near the North-door of St. Paul's Church-yard 1659. That which follows in your Book about Mr. Gunning and Mr. Pearson who disputed against the Romanists all who know these Ministers know to be superfluous and frivolous However I think fit to tell you the Romanist who put forth an Edition of that Dispute hath so changed transposed added diminished and made of it what he list that I believe it will be as soon owned for your I mean not J. S. but H. D's Conference as Mr. Pearson's or Mr. Gunning's I must now tell you further what you have been oft enough told that that Relation cannot expect to be regarded by Mr. P. or any sober Person which is disclaimed and disowned by Three of the Four who were Disputants viz. by both the Protestants and half the Papists But chiefly I must entreat you to consider whether the inserting above 200 Lines at a time as a part of the Conference which never was part of it besides all professed Additions secondly whether the leaving out whole Sheets of the Protestants which the Papists thought too hard to answer and thirdly the scarce suffering any one Argument and Answer of both to come together but casting usually parts of the same Paper of Mr. G. many score Leaves asunder one from another be not a scandal that any Christian would desire might be cover'd with silence And I would gladly know from any Ingenuous Person whether this might not be Answer enough to a Book put out at the charge of the Romanist's own Purse and Conscience A Discourse by being mangled rendred so unintelligible that scarce any Man ever read it over or will. Reverend Mr. William Moor the deceased Library-Keeper was perswaded by J. S. to read one Leaf but professed before many Witnesses he would not read another if you would give him the whole Impression because it was so unintelligible for the Causes above-mentioned This account was thought sufficient to satisfie the World that the Relation of that Conference ought not to be regarded and that it needed no other Answer But perhaps some will demand why was not the Conference then Printed whole and intire Now the reason of that was because the Popish Adversary did run all the Dispute into obscure and metaphysical Niceties that few could understand and fewer would take the pains to read it and so it was not thought fit and a needless charge to trouble the World with it Besides both the Bishops did tell their Friends when they discoursed with them about a fuller Answer that they thought it altogether unnecessary because though the Dispute were mangled and misrepresented yet that which they had Printed was still unanswered by them and unanswerable by any of their Party and they were perswaded that all Men who would carefully read the Book would be of the same mind And as for this Paper that is added at the end of the pretended Conference and now Reprinted at Oxford the Author do's not so much as say that it was part of their Dispute but a pure Addition of his own wherein they were no more concerned than other Divines and they did not think they were bound to answer whatsoever he should afterwards write and publish to the World and yet this Oxford Paper would without any ground or the least colour impose upon the World that this is a part of that forementioned Conference Neither did the Cause it self or the state of Affairs then require any particular Discourse upon that subject the Books of Bishop Fern Arch-bishop Bramhall Dr. Hammond and Dr. Heylin being then in every Bodies hands wherein they had fully vindicated the Church of England from any imputation of Schism and the learned Men of that time were so well satisfied with what they had written that it was needless to trouble the World upon that account But now 't is expected every thing that peeps out should receive a due Answer I have therefore endeavour'd to prove from truly Catholick Principles such as our Adversaries themselves cannot gain-say that not only the Doctrine and Constitution of our Church is most sound and Catholick but even the Order of our Succession and the Method of our Reformation was truly Regular and Canonical and that all the Author 's own Arguments do return

in Queen Elizabeth's Reign did possess the Places of Lawful Bishops yet living or united themselves to such as did possess them therefore they were Schismatical and no Lawful Bishops of the Church of England For as soon as these Lawful Bishops were turned out others were put into their Places and not only so but contrary to all Rule and ordorly Government in the Church For the most certain Fundamental Constitution of the Church in all Ages and the constant Order of all Societies which is always tacitly supposed tho' not formally observed is that while particular Churches keep to the Faith and Unity of the Catholick Church as ours had done all things ought to be managed by the Archbishop and Bishops of the Province and so by the Chief Governors and main Body of the Society or else things cannot be Regularly done but here the Archbishop and the Major Part of the Bishops are set aside and others put into their Places while they were yet alive and Dr. Burnet adds that of the inferiour Clergy who were Sixteen Thousand Twelve Thousand were likewise turned out so there could be nothing Regularly done by the Convocation either in the Upper or Lower House And further they were not content with the present Possession but secretly said in their Minds These are the Heirs come let us kill them and their Inheritance shall be ours therefore after they had bereaved them of their Bishopricks and their Livings they quickly took away many of their Lives And are not all these Men Schismaticks with a Witness and all those that were Ordained by them into other Mens Places and Government It matters not to our business to pursue all the Successions and Changes in Queen Mary's Days I will rather proceed to consider the State of the Bishopricks after Queen Mary's Death when Queen Elizabeth restored the Church to that Regular Constitution which was settled before by the undoubted Lawful Archbishops and Bishops in King Edward's Days Bishopricks void by Death Archbishop Poole of Canterbury Bishop King of Oxford Bishop Capon of Salisbury Bishop Parfew of Hereford Bishop Holyman of Bristol Bishop Glin of Bangor Bishop Brookes of Glocester Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Norwich void Rochester void Bishops in Possession of the other Bishopricks but uncanonically for the Reasons above named Bishop Bonner of London Bishop Thirlby of Ely. Bishop White of Winchester Bishop Watson of Lincoln Bishop Pool of Peterburgh Bishop Bourne of Bath and Wells Bishop Turbervill of Exeter Bishop Bayne of Lichfield and Coventry Bishop Christophorson of Chichester Bishop Pates of Wonchester Bishop Goldwell of St. Asaph Bishop Kitchin of Landaffe Who conformed In the Province of York Archbishop Heath of York Bishop Tunstall of Durham Bishop Scot of Chester Bishop Oglethorp of Carlisle 'T is confessed that 14 or 15 were turned out or went away in Queen Elizabeth's Days but according to our Author 's own Argument they were Schismaticks and no Lawful Bishops because they came into the Places of Lawful Bishops while they were alive or else were ordained by and communicated with such Schismaticks I add they usurped their Places by turning out the Metropolitans and Major Part of the Bishops of each Province and so could have no Lawful Authority or Jurisdiction Queen Elizabeth therefore set them aside and so removed this Violence and Usurpation And being willing to restore all things as they were settled in King Edward's Reign she calls back the Bishops that were still alive which were only Five in number Bishop Barlow Scory Coverdale Kitchin and Thirlby And all but Thirlby concurred in settling the Reformation so we had still the Major Part of the Lawful Bishops to renew the Succession and they did Ordain Archbishop Parker and others and it has been Regularly continued ever since Thus the Authority of our present Bishops as to Order and Jurisdiction is beyond dispute One Objection was insisted upon by Queen Mary and others to justify the Deprivation of the Protestant Bishops and others of the Clergy because some of them were married Men and perhaps they married after Orders which was threatned with Deposition by many ancient Canons To which I Answer that living in a Married Estate is not by Divine Authority inconsistent with the Exercise of the Priesthood but was always allowed in the Church and ever practised in the Greek Church till this Day and has been oftentimes dispensed withal in the Roman Church for secular Ends. So that the allowing Marriage before or after Orders is a Circumstance that depends upon the Discretion of the Church and if for some Reasons Clergy-men were heretofore prohibited to marry after Orders yet in this long Interval of General Councils upon the great Experience of the Mischiefs and Inconveniences that came by forbidding it particular Churches may dispense with that Rigour accordingly this Provincial and National Church and the Law of the Land which had much better Authority than the Pope had left every body to their Liberty to marry or not to marry as they saw good and so they that did marry offended against no Law of God and Man and therefore were unjustly Deposed from their Bishopricks upon that Account But then our Author says that they in Queen Mary's Days were Lawful Bishops and he proves it from the Confession of Protestants who grant that the Church of Rome and all those of her Communion are true Churches of Christ. Now as to the first Part of the Argument I Answer In time of great Schism and tumultuous Proceedings there may be so far the Remains of a true Church that many Pious Christians who are not at all or else ignorantly ingaged in the Schism may be saved but we have no Reason to say that the Popish Bishops in Queen Mary's Days were Lawful Bishops or the governing Part were then the National Church of England the true Right and Authority of the Church was in those Lawful Bishops that were made in King Edward's Days and that was the true Church of England which did adhere to them and their Constitutions But then the Author does Object that Protestants do grant that the Church of Rome and all those of her Communion are true Churches of Christ. Never was People's Charity more abused than ours of the Church of England has been in this kind to justify the Errors and Schism of the Church of Rome and all upon a mere and generally wilful Mistake In short therefore 't is true and we do acknowledge that the Substance of the Christian Religion is professed by the Church of Rome tho' mingled with Errors And so many that honestly and sincerely serve God in her Communion may be saved but yet many may be damned for too pertinaciously maintaining and propagating the Errors of the Church of Rome especially those that desert and refuse Obedience to the Bishops of the Church of England setting up Altar against Altar and so keeping up a Schism amongst us where they have such plentiful Means of being better