it of necessitie seeing men are excommunicate and deposed for not obseruing it or as some verie ignorantlie vse to say if it be a thing indifferent why is it not left indifferent for men to vse or not to vse I answere that which is a thing indifferent God commaundeth it shall be done when it is conuenient and for edification and therefore when the Church doth appoynt or ordeine it rightly he that breaketh it wilfullie breaketh the commandement of God And so on the other side when it falleth out not to be conuenient and the Church dooth alter it hee that will now obserue it with a resisting minde doth like wise offend against the rule of Gods word I neuer doubted but that by neâ—essary consequence it is to be drawen from the doctrine of the scriptures that prayer is to be made before and after the word preached but I speake of a commaundement in expresse wordes therefore the places are cited here by the Brownist to no purpose And all the rest of his words that follow are either in matters wherin we agree or such as he collectetth from his owne ignorance and which are answered before The next argument is Read prayers were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and Idole ministerie c. Here the Brownist if he would at all speak to the purpose shoulde prooue that the very reading a prayer when one prayeth is the deuise of Antichrist maintaineth superstitioÌ„ an Idole ministrie But he flieth dealeth about the matter of leiturgies saying he hath heard the Pope woulde haue approoued ours if it might be receiued in his name If master Greenwoods newes from Rome were true which hee heard the matter were not great for the Pope will approoue the Lords prayer the commaundements and articles of the faith but he wil expound them as it pleaseth him The Pope also to wind in himself wil approoue in shew many things which he misliketh so they be not directly against his crowne and dignitie And it is to be considered that the controuersies betweene vs and the Papists are not about the matters which we are to begge in prayer There is no likelyhood that the Pope made such offer because he knoweth we holde in the substance and grounds of the faith that which quite ouerthroweth him but if he did men may see by these things which I haue noted that master Greenwood doth but shift and trifle He confesseth leiturgies were before Antichrist and yet saith he was the deuiser See the grauitie of this man he is sore afraide that hee should here againe be said to condemne all Churches because they haue read prayer and therfore he saith his arguments are falsely wrested Answere your selfe then and tell vs what ye holde them which receiue the deuise of Antichrist Why crie yee not out of the marke of the beast It is a pitifull thing to see in what a case the Brownist is For he wil not coÌ„demne the Churches and yet after he hath set foorth what leiturgie is and affirmed that the new Testament is Christs leiturgie he alleageth that they be accursed that adde thereto and holdeth prescript forme of prayer an adding Let him now be asked is the curse layd vpon the true Churches he will say no. Then prescript forme is either no adding to Christs Testament or else they be vnder the curse that vse it He saith leiturgies are another gospel Then all Churches haue receiued another gosepl The wordes that follow haue bin answered before Where I sayd there would sundrie inconueniences growe for want of prescript forme of publike prayer After he hath set downe that Christ is a perfect law giuer and that the word of God is sufficient he tearmeth it blasphemie to say there would be inconueniences without leiturgies then all the Churches committe blasphemie whether doe ye yet condemne them or not This is from his grosenes which doth not se that Christs Testament is perfect and yet there are things commaunded in generall rules which are variable as I haue before shewed for circumstances of time place persons sitting kneeling c. He saith there can be no particular lawes made without breaking the lawe of God as though the Church were not to see what in these is fit and conuenient vpon euerie occasion and time and for that time to establish the same But euerie man to doe as he shall like or shal take the generall rule of order and decencie for men will not agree this is from rules of order to drawe confusion Now this great deuine saith I haue made a faire hande in affirming leiturgies to be but a matter of order or conueniencie for edification Seeing as hee saith it is all the worship we haue this commeth from him that hath the beautie of Sion as he boasteth which the inchaunters of Egipt cannot iudge of This commeth from him that with his fellowes hath the cloude betweene them and vs and the pillar of fire before them as he speaketh in the next wordes Because I say the prescript forme and the reading are but for order he concludeth that I confesse the prayer is but a matter of order or conueniencie ye say I haue made a faire hand But I tell ye master Greenwood if ye should goe into the Schooles and reason so in earnest the young boyes would be readie to hisse ye foorth as a non proficiens and howe faire hand should you make then they will not beleeue ye haue it from your pillar of fire but out of that dark cloud of your ignorance which is betweene your selfe and the light of the trueth Now wheras I said y e Church hath power to ordain according to the word of God to appoint such orders in matters of circumstance about publike prayer preaching of the worde and administring of the Sacraments as shall most fitly serue for edification and then these orders being established by publike authoritie the discipline and censures of the Church are to driue men to the obseruation of the same that stubbornely break them Here the poore Brownist layeth open himselfe againe to be as blinde as a beetle he will needes haue it to be papisticall mudde and that I am in an Apostacie Because there can as he saith no other lawes be made in matters of circumstance than Christ himselfe hath made that to ordaine lawes in the Church is to plead for vnwritten verities and to make the law of God vnsufficieÌ„t It is an adding to the word of God which is execrable pride All the Popes trinkets might bee brought in by the same ground This is the foundation of Poperie and Anabaptistrie to giue libertie to make lawes in the worship of God And by your iudgement which would haue men driuen to obserue them our Sauiour Christ was an Anabaptisticall Schismatike that would not himselfe nor his disciples obey the traditions of the Elders Thus speaketh this Brownist But what beastlie ignorance doth he bewray and that in sundrie poynts and with what
for that I say many such returned to professe the Gospell againe as members of the Church and were receiued For saide the Donatists the Church is holie consisting of such as be called foorth and separated from the vnpure and wicked world and therefore no separation being made but such villanous traitors so vile Idolaters and their childrē being communicated withall all your assemblies through this mixture are none other before GOD but heapes of abominable vncleane persons Your teachers are the sonnes of Apostates and traitors and no Ministers of Christ Now looke vpon the Donatists of England Antichrist hath béen exalted according to the prophesie of S. Paule he hath sate in the Temple of God boasting himselfe as God persecuting and murthering Gods true worshippers He is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospell his damnable doctrine cursed Idolatrie and vsurped tyrannie are cast foorth of this land by the holie sacred power of our dread Soueraigne Ladie Quéene Elizabeth whom God hath placed settled vpon the Throne of this noble Kingdome The true doctrine of faith is published and penalties are by lawes appoynted for such as shall stubbernlie despise the same Our Donatists crie out that our assemblies as ye may see in their printed bookes and that the people were all by constraint receiued immediatlie from Idolatrie into our Church without preaching of the Gospell by the sound of a Trumpet at the Coronation of the Queene that they bee confused assemblies without any separation of the good from the bad They affirme also that our Ministers haue their discent and ordination and power from Antichrist and so are his marked seruants Hereupon not vnderstanding the manifest Scripture that the Apostasie hauing inuaded the Church it continued still euen then the Temple of God in which Antichrist did sit and that the verie Idolaters were within the Church were sealed with the signe of baptisme professed Christ in some points rightlie their children from ancient discent being within the couenant of God and of right to bee baptized the Ministerie of Christ so farre remaining as that it was the authentick seale which was deliuered by the same in a mad furie like blind hypocrites they condemne the reformation by ciuill power and purging Gods Temple by the authoritie of Princes because the Church of Christ is founded and built by the doctrine of the Gospell Herein they are deceiued that they imagine the Princes take vpon them to compell those to bée a Church which were none before whereas indeed they doo but compell those within their kingdome ouer whome the Lord hath set them which haue receiued the signe of the couenant and professe themselues to bee members of the Church accordinglie to renounce and forsake all false worship and to imbrace the doctrine of saluation What other thing did Iosias and other holie Kings of Iuda when they compelled the multitude of Idolaters which were the seede of Abraham and circumcised to forsake their Idolatrie and to worship the Lord It is most cléere also that where the reformation of the Kings was not perfect as appeareth in the bookes of the Kings and Chronicles yet all the foulest things being abolished and the substance of trueth brought in they were reputed godlie Churches where many were false brethren and open offenders The Brownists blinded with their swelling pride and not séeing the euident matters of the Scriptures without all order of that holie discipline of Christ accuse condemne and forsake our Churches vnder the appearance of feruent zeale and rigorous seueritie against all sinne not inferiour to the Donatists as if they were the onely men that stood for Christ and his kingdome they crie out aloude and proclaime all the Ministers of our Churches to be Antichristian the sonnes of the Pope false Prophets Baals Priests that prophesie in Baal and pleade for Baal persecutors of the iust bearing the marke the power and life of the beast because they say our ordeiners bee such They say wee haue no word of God no Sacraments nor true Church but that all is vtterlie polluted and become abominable our assemblies they call the very Synagogs of Antichrist vtterlie fallen from the couenant of God and all that ioyne with them through the pollution of open sinners which are not cast foorth and therefore they haue separated themselues and crie aloude vnto others to doo the same if they will be saued What rule of discipline haue they obserued in this Haue these things béen brought foorth scanned discussed and iudged in the Synods of the learned Pastors and teachers of the Churches Nay but euen as Augustine saith of the other furor dolus tumultus furie deceipt and tumult do beare the sway Then I conclude that in this poynt of accusing condemning and manner of separating themselues from the Church the Donatists and the Brownists doo agree and are alike Some man will here replie that I build vppon a weake ground or rather vpon the sand in prouing the Brownists and the Donatists to bée all one because they are alike in accusing and condemning the Churches and separating themselues from the same For the matter resteth not simply vpon the actions but whether there were iust cause The question will bee whether the Brownists doo that iustlie which the Donatists did vngodly For the Donatists did accuse the Churches and Ministers falsely condemned them most wickedly and therefore their separation could not bee good because it was from the true Churches of Christ but now if the Brownists obiect open and manifest crimes such as cannot be denied their case doth differ farre May not a man separate himselfe from those assemblies where he seeth open sinners suffered on heapes to remaine in the bosome of the Church and where idolatries blasphemies and abominations are committed where the Ministers and gouernment be Antichristian but he must bée a Donatist Moreouer it is certaine the Donatists did condemne all Churches in the world the Brownists doo condemne onely the assemblies as they generally stand in England which is a very great difference The Donatists hold that the Sacraments or the efficacie of them doth depend vpon the worthines of the Minister the Brownists are not of that mind The Donatists did rebaptize the Brownists doo vrge no such thing It may be also they are vnlike in some other things if it be so why should they be termed Donatists Indeed if there be such differences the Brownists haue great wrong to bee called Donatists and to bee condemned with so wicked a sect But what if it fall out otherwise and that it be shewed and prooued manifestlie that they be all one in these things Shall wee not then say they be euen brethren shall they not stand or fall with the Donatists shall they be vngodlie Schismatickes and not these I will procéede from poynt to poynt to compare them together that it may appeare whether there be difference Touching the first it is most true that the Donatists did accuse and condemne
horrible things in his blinde furie doth he charge all Churches withall For first when he saith that for matters of order and circumstance there can be no other lawes made of them thā Christ hath made he seeth not the difference betweene the giuing generall rules of charitie of come liues and order which serue for edification that are to be followed in making lawes touching matters in themselues merely indifferent and the very particular lawes thēselues that are so to be made Thē if it be true which he saith the matters of order and circumstance are not variable but stand fixed as inuiolable lawes of Christ in the particulars to be obserued which is false seeing these circumstances are no part of Gods worship As Paul saith The Kingdome of God is not meate and drinke c. but as handmaids to attend vpon it and to adorne it and so are vsed and not vsed as occasion serueth I haue shewed this before in some particulars as that the assemblies are in time of peace gathered in temples and fixed places and open in time of persecution and tumult in the fields in woods and secret places which they change and at the commandement of the pastors and gouernours the wise reader may consider the like not onelie for kneeling and such like but in many other And we sée that the Apostles themselues did decree some things for the time which afterward were to bee altered when the occasion was taken away as namelie to auoide giuing offence to y e weak Iewes which stuck in the ceremonies of the lawe they made this decree Act. 15. That the gentiles should absteine from blood and from strangled We doo not now obserue this decree of the Apostles neither are we to obserue it séeing the occasion is remooued for which it was made Furthermore if there be no lawes to be made in matters of circumstance how shal the flockes knowe what to follow or to obserue where the pastors shall dissent and varie in iudgement Sall not some be rent into one part and some into another Now when hee saith this is to pleade for vnwritten verities to make the Lawe of God vnsufficient to adde to the word alleaging those Scriptures which shew how cursed a thing that is hee dooth but ignorantlie abuse those Scriptures and wickedlie seduce the simple sorte of men For those Scriptures are against the adding of humaine precepts and lawes to be kept as parts of Gods worship to binde the conscience to séeke righteousnes and the forgiuenes of sinnes or the merite of eternall life in them or against such rules of gouernement as God hath set to bee perpetuall This is against the perfection of the word against Christian libertie and in the chiefe things which concerne Gods worship against the ground and foundation of our faith and so a thing most detestable and accursed which our sauiour also and his Apostles refused iustlie to obserue with the blinde Pharisies But now where the Brownist hath his eyes so daseled with that pillar of fire which hee saieth they haue before them that he cannot perceiue that to make and constitute lawes in matters of circumstance for comelines and order according to the generall rules of the Scripture and not to binde the conscience is no adding to the word nor mixing Gods worship with mans inuentions he is much to be pittied And doubtles before this pillar of fire bee remooued which is not the heauenlie light of Gods spirite but a frantick presumption by which the diuell dooth delude men and blinde them with their swelling he shall neuer see well Some will say if these constitutions be not to binde the conscience of men why are men forced to keepe them Why should the discipline and censures of the Church driue men thereunto In déede this is that which the freedome of the Brownists can at no hand indure To answer this the reader must consider what is the binding of the conscience It is not to say simplie yee must for conscience sake doo it or yee are bounde for conscience sake to doo it for then all the humaine constitutions and lawes of princes may be saide to binde the conscience because Saint Paul willeth to obey them for conscience Rom. 13. But by binding the conscience is meant that such lawes are laid vpon the conscience to bee obserued as part of the worship of God when men are punished for not keeping them as contemning Gods worship then is the Christian libertie withstoode But when y e discipline censures of the Church doo compel men to obserue the lawes which in matters of comlines and order are made according to the rules of the Apostle they are not punished for dooing or not doing the things themselues but that by dooing that which is forbidden or refusing to doo that which is commaunded they disturb the peace bréede diuisions and offence disobey where they are commanded obedience these bee sinnes and for these men are to be punished This is where the orders be not against the word of God but fitte for edification And now to conclude about this matter all the Churches of God vnder heauen doe make such lawes such Canons and constitutions in matters of circumstance and by their discipline compell both Ministers and people to obey the same The Brownist alleageth against this not only the sentences Prouerbs 30. vers 5. 6 and Deut. 4. vers 12. 32. but also Reuela 22. vers 18. 19. Where the Lorde threatneth that he that shall adde to the words of that Prophesie he will put vpon him the Plagues written in that booke Tell me now Maister Greenewood doe ye yet condemne all Churches Ye do affirme that they which make anie lawes doe adde to the worde of God and alleage against them that God will put vpon them the plagues written in that booke which is a denouncing of the extreame wrath of God for there is the lake of fire set foorth If yee were not quite beside your selfe how could you thus hurle your dartes of extreame condemnation and strike all churches and yet when I tell yee of it crie out that I am a liing Prophet and will me to remember who is the father of vntrueths But least I may seeme to father that vpon the Churches which is farre from them I wil note somewhat out of the harmonie of confessions Section 17. The latter Heluetian confession saith Quod in Ecclesijs dispares inueniuntur ritus nemo Ecclesias existimet ex eo esse dissidentes That there are vnlike rites or ceremonies found in the Churches let no man iudge hereby that the Churches dissent And the confession of Bohemia hath Quare illi tantum ritus illaeque ceremoniae bonae seruari debent quae in populo Christiano vnicam veram fidem sincerúmque cultum Dei concordium charitatem veram atque Christianam se◠religiosam pacem aedificant Siue igitur ab episcopis siue a consilijs Ecclesiasticis aut à quibuscumque aucthoribus
against all sin iudge repute them as christian brethren which it may be are not his fall is not great although he be ouer fauorable for through humility he is below Wheras on the other part such as condemne with vncharitable rigor they are lifted vp with swelling and so their fall is deeper This is my meaning in that I saide I had rather answer to God for mercy than for rigour now as I eschew it in my self so would I be loath seeing rigor aboundeth among many to giue any occasion to nourish the same by my writing If I sin in this yet I trust it is so as no godly charitable man wel aduised wil make an outcry against me for it if I shake hāds with sin let me be condēned for it otherwise I craue that I may follow the rule of the Apostle But now it wil be said by the third sort which finde fault with my book that I haue broken this rule towards the Brownists as also that rule of S. Paul who willeth to instruct with patience such as be contrary minded because I charg them not only with foule Schisme but also with heresies and for which I take it that obstinacie if it be found in thē wil make them heretickes They differ not frō vs say some in matters of faith but doo ouer shoot thēselues that on the right hand for answer vnto these first touching the rules of Paul I know he himself did practize thē And he that gaue these rules so far as wee are come let vs proceed by one rule c. and instructing with patience c. said also beware of dogs beware of euill workmen beware of the concision Philip. 3. Why did S. Paule this but mooued with the danger which the Churches were in by them Men haue not now the consideration what it is to condemne the whole worship the Ministrie as Antichristian and so vtterlie to take away the credite and power of the Ministrie and preaching Gods word Will they esteeme it to bee lesse than that which the false Apostles did Againe I see men are ignorant what the power of Donatisme was how it preuailed and spread not onelie among the common sort but had hundreths of preachers to publish and set it foorth Neither doo men knowe the foulenes of Donatisme nor the poynts of it and that maketh them offended that I terme the Brownists Donatists hold it as a schisme and heresie Cresconius the Donatist writing against Augustine doth reprehend him for calling them hereticks because they held the same doctrine as hee saith and if they offended it could bee but as in a schisme Augustine replieth that Schisma inueteratum est haeresis Inueterate schisme is heresie And sheweth that some thinges they helde were hereticall The Churches haue condemned it not only as a schisme but also as an heresie I haue out of large discourses of the controuersies betweene the Churches and the Donatists drawen foorth brieflie all the chiefe heads of Donatisme and how they did stand to maintaine them and with what scriptures I compare the Brownists and them together in all poynts generallie held and will stand to iustifie that they bee full Donatists euen in the rankest Donatisme If I haue not set down the Donatisme aright and if the Brownisme be not the same let me haue the shame for euer that I haue giuē them the title and can not iustifie that they are worthie of it Let the Brownists chuse which part they will either to affirme that the Donatists had the truth or else to cleere thēselues frō Donatisme I will ioyne with them or rather against them in either And in the meane time I do exhort al other to be sober minded and discreet and not to thrust the simpler sort headlong into it by exclaiming that they bee ouer hardlie dealt withall For what say some If these that are called Brownists bee godly men and but ouerseene in some matters we will chuse to ioyne with thē rather thā with the publike assemblies of our Church These men are they in compassion of whō I write Now the chiefe heads in which I compare them are these The Donatists did falselie accuse and condemne the Churches and al the Ministers to be vtterlie polluted and al their worship and separated themselues without all order of discipline So haue the Brownists done The Donatists tooke beginning by occasion of one man whom they held to be no Minister of Christ but after they made their defence that all were polluted and all the Ministers the generatiōs of Traitors Iudasses and persecutors of the iust that the Churches in the beginning after the times of persecution were not well ordered by separation of the faithfull from the wicked For because there were many both Ministers and people which in time of persecution to saue their liues had denied the faith sacrificed to Idols and deliuered the holie Scriptures to the persecutors and when Constantine gaue peace being become Christian returned and were not cast foorth Hereupon the Donatists said all were vtterlie polluted that because some such did ordaine Ministers at least as they reported they accused all the Ministers to bee the sons of traitors which ordained them and so were no ministers of Christ had no true praier nor Sacraments The Brownists affirme that all our assemblies which openlie committed Idolatrie were at the sound of a Trumpet at the coronation of the Queene called to be Churches that the bad were not separated frō the good that our ordainers were Idolaters that we are their children no Ministers of Christ but Baals priests persecutors so haue no word of God nor no Sacraments nor true church all being polluted with the open sinnes committed Thus both make the holie things of the Lord which indeed are vnchangeable or els we could haue no cōfort as namely the word of God the praiers the Sacraments the ordination of Ministers to be polluted destroied by the wickednes of men The Donatists held that Princes were not to compell vnto religion so cried out of persecution gloried of their sufferings multitude of martyres And what do the Brownists These things with the rest will better appeare in the seuerall comparisons as they followe in my booke I now intreate the reader not to iudge of any one thing vntill he haue read the whole I also desire that the sayings of the ancient writers which I alleage may be wel waied for proofe of that for which I cite them If any shall say what shall we ground vppon men I answer I alleage them but to shew what the controuersie was how it was disputed on both sides for this they are sufficient witnesses Beleeue their reasons as ye find they be confirmed by the holie Scriptures I haue set downe the Latin least any should thinke I haue not dealt plainlie And touching the last part of this my booke which is an answer to Master Greenwood
and the doctrine of Free will were crept in also besides diuers other grosse errors which sundrie of the chiefe teachers held some in one poynt some in an other Touching Ceremonies not for order and comlynes but with signification the libertie was exceeding which men tooke and the corruption greeuous which was not espied but of few Tertullian for his time nameth these which he saith were receiued by tradition and had no scripture to warrant them first in baptisme hauing shewed what they professed and the thrée times dipping into the water hee addeth Inde suscepti lactis mellis concordiam pragustamus Exque ea die lauacro quotidiano per totam hebdomadam abstinemus That is Taken from thence hee meaneth from the water wee first taste the concord of milke and hony and from that day we abstaine from the dayly washing a whole weeke Die dominico ieiunium nefas ducimus vel de geniculis adorare Eadem immunitate a die paschae in Penticostem vsque gaudemus That is We account it an heynous matter to fast on the Lords day or to worship vpon the knees by the same freedome from Easter vnto Penticost we reioyce And by and by after hee saith Ad omnem progressum atque promotum ad omnem aditum exitū ad vestitū ad calciamentū ad lauacra ad mēsas ad lumina ad cubilia ad sedilia quacunque nos conuersatio exercet frontem crucis signaculo terimus That is At euerie setting forward and mouing at euerie comming to or going foorth at our appareling and putting on our shooes at washing at table at lighting the candle at bed at sitting whatsoeuer wee are busied about we weare our forehead with the signe of the Crosse These superstitious obseruations were crept into the Church and in the daies of Tertullian who liued not much more than two hundreth yeares after our Sauiour Christ receaued so generallie that hee saieth they were by tradition from the Apostles Augustine vnto Ianuarius complaineth that there was such a multitude of rites or ceremonies in the Church But what should I labour in this point If the Brownists will affirme that there be as great corruptions in the worship of the Church of England if we respect either doctrine or ceremonies as were in the Churches from which the Donatists did separate themselues they shall be conuinced of grosse ignorance And if they stand in it they shall shew themselues shameles let the reader in the meane time but looke vpon the Epistle of Master Beza before the new Testament and see what he affirmeth in this matter how corrupt the Churches were Then I conclude that the Donatists separating themselues from Churches more corrupt than the Churche of England in the worship of God as I dare stand to maintaine against them if they denie it may as well bee excused as the Brownists and so hetherto they bee euen bretheren with them or their naturall Children no difference to bee found at all And now touching the third and fourth pillars of Brownisme the Donatists cried out that the Churches had no true Ministers but that they were all false Prophets Iudasses persecutors of the iust generations of Traitors because as they saide they had their ordination from those that were such The Brownists with all their might lift vp their voices and call vs Baals Priests the marked seruants of Antichrist false Prophets seducers and such like because as they say we are ordeined by Antichristian Bishops which exercise a Discipline contrarie to the Discipline of Christ Here wee haue to consider of two things at once the Ministers and the Discipline let vs first see what the Donatists held against the Ministers This was the common voice among the Donatists O that matters might be disputed discussed and scanned But when by the commandement of the Emperour the conference should bee holden what miserable shiftes and delayes did they finde out And in the conference of the third day Chapt. 2. It is shewed that the Donatists did accuse them as Traitors and persecutors and that this saying had been vttered Indignum est vt in vnum conueniant filij Martyrum progenies traditorum It is an vnworthie thing that the sonnes of Martyres the generations of traitors should come together When Augustine had saide he was no traitor Cresconius the Donatist replieth Sed ille qui tradidit te creauit Fonte deducitur riuus caput membra sequuntur sano capite omne sanum est corpus si quid in hoc morbi vel vitij est omnia membra debilitat or iginem suam respicit quicquid in stirpe processit Non potest innocens esse qui sectam non sequitur innocentis But he that created thee plaied the Traitor the riuer or streame is deriued from the Fountaine and the members followe the head The head being sounde the whole bodie is sound and if there bee anie disease in it it weakeneth all the members It respecteth it owne originall whatsoeuer groweth out of the stock hee cannot bee innocent which followeth not the sect of the innocent These be the words of Cresconius the Donatist by which hee taketh vpon him to proue that Augustine and all the Pastors of the Churches had no true ordination were not true Ministers of Christ but the generations of traitors He vseth as we see thrée similitudes The first is to this effect as the riuer is deriued from the Fountaine and must néedes be such as it is so those that bée ordeined Ministers are like the streame deriued from the fountaine the ordeinors being trators Iudasses false prophets persecutors y e ordeined must néedes be such also The second is that the members doo followe the head He that ordeineth is the head the Ministers ordeined are the members If the head be infected the poyson of it goeth into the mēbers Thy ordeinor euen thy head was a traitor thou art then a traitor also The third similitude is from the stock and the branches that growe out of it such as the stock is such are the braunches that growe out of it But he that ordeined thée or created thée a Minister was a false Prophet therefore thou art a false prophet for hée is the stock out of which thou doost growe how canst thou but bee such as the roote out of which thou doost spring The Brownists handling this point to proue that we be no Ministers of Christ set foorth the matter thus your discent and pedegrée is in few degrées deriued from the Pope you being the Children of your Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathan and his vicar generall in earth whose image marke power and life you beare and together with him growe liue raigne stand and fall as the branches with the Trée This is the eloquence of the Brownists which differing in words containeth the same reasons that the Donatists did vse for in stead of the Fountaine and the streame
y e Minister knowe what is in euery man doth he know euerie man womans particular wants He is to make the praier in which they are al to ioyne w t him in euerie request that he maketh Or is your meaning y t euerie man and woman shall come vnto him before euerie assemblie and make their state knowne what their seuerall neede is Or can the Minister beare in minde when he hath heard Ye may see into what absurdities blind fantasie doth cast men Men are to pray for nothing but that which they feele the want of and are prepared to aske are fit to receiue For these saith the Brownists there can be no set forme And I demaund whether the preacher doth know euery mans féeling how they are prepared how fit to receiue Will ye affirme this or will ye confesse that these grosse fantasies which yet you will father vpon Gods spirit doo quite ouerthrowe all publike prayer For if it bee sinne for any to pray for more than he commeth with the present feeling off if in the multitude the desires are seuerall if it bee vnpossible for the Minister to knowe them and how the hearts bee prepared and affected how shall he make prayer for them all how shall they all ioyne with him in euerie request How much better is it to confesse that the most things which all are to pray for and at all times are inuariable and that men come not only to pray for that which they feele their neede in but also to be stirred vp to pray for such things as either they thinke not of or be dull in I must needes here lament the state of our people which professe the Gospell and cannot espie the grossenesse of these thinges When the assemblies doo méet and holie petitions are made which men haue heard at euery meeting they ought to bee as feruent in praying as the first time they heard them For it is a grosse wickednes in men not to bee mooued with matter because they haue often heard it but accompt it stale as we see mans minde coueteth stil that which is newe If men haue not feeling it is their fault Touching the faults in any Leiturgie the question is not betweene vs which reason what should be That whâ—ch I spake of the preachers not limitted in their praiers I meane the prayers before and after their Sermons which they conceiue That our Sauiour prescribed no forme I shewed the reason that it is not a thing of necessitie but to auoide inconuenience neither are men tied to one forme in all churches Against this the Brownist replying biddeth me stand to this and saith I will goe from it in the next argument I say all the Brownists vnder heauen shall neuer be able with force of reason to driue me from it He first opposeth that if I say it be at all times necessarie then the Testament is not perfect How can I say it is at all times necessarie when I say it is not of necessitie Christs Testament is most absolutelie perfect but yet all things touching comelines order and conueniencie which are variable and may bee changed are not expresselie mentioned And that is one chiefe thing whereby the Brownists doo seduce many a simple man For this Brownist doth confesse that there bee things contained in the generall rules of the Scripture which are not expressed but he will not haue any of those things variable that is such as may be for good cause altered For thus he reasoneth I it bee a part of Gods worship and all times conuenient then is it necessarie and if it be not necessarie put saith he such conueniencie in your cornered cappe or surplesse And a little after but you graunt saith he it is not of necessitie therefore it is not commanded in particular nor conteined in any generall rule Thus may we see that he holdeth there is nothing in matters of conuenience or circumstance in Gods worship which is not of necessitie The ground of his reason is this If it be either expressed in particular or contained in any generall rule it is commaunded of GOD and man hath not authoritie to alter Gods commandement therefore it is necessarie I grant that matters of conueniencie are commaunded of GOD by the generall rules and that men may not take authoritie ouer Gods commandement I say therefore the Church doth sinne either of ignorance or of negligence when it faileth in matters of circumstance which should serue for edification But herein the Brownist sheweth himselfe most absurdly ignorant that he will haue that which is commanded to be of necessitie at all times For that he may not winde out here with shift as his manner is when any grosse thing vttered by him is detected Let the reader obserue his words and he shall sée plainly he reasoneth for a necessitie at all times For he saith If it be a part of Gods worship and at all times conuenient then is it necessarie And to manifest that he holdeth it all times conuenient saying if it be not necessarie put such conueniencie into your cornered cappe And againe hée ioyneth commanded in Gods word and necessarie at all times together And a little after he saith Whatsoeuer is commanded either in particular or in necessarie collection from the generall rules are of necessitie to be obeyed and not to be altered This I note to stop his euasion for many matters of circumstance seruing for conueniencie and order are fit at some times in some places and for some persons and so by the commaundement of GOD then to be vsed who willeth that all things be done comelie in order and to edification Now as the times do varie with the circumstances of place of persons and of other occasions the same things which were conuenient may become inconuenient and so not necessarie at all times as the blinde Brownist dooth beare in hand but to be altered As for example in the time of peace it is most conuenient that the assemblies should meete in some Temple or Church built for the purpose the Church is then to ordeine that it may bee so In the times of warre and cruell persecution when the enemies raunge about and rage it may bee farre more safe for feare of intrapping to meete in the woods or secret places Kneeling is the fittest gesture of the bodie when men in earnest prayer are to worship the Lord the Church is to commaund it where it may fitlie be done but if the assemblies be driuen to meet in such places as the ground being wet and through the trampling of their feete doth become myrie it is inconuenient that the multitude should bee compelled to kneele in the myre and therefore the former ordinance is now changed I might runne through a number of particulars but these are sufficient to declare what a learned Deuine master Greenwood is and how perfect a spirit doth guide his penne He demandeth also full wisely whether wee doo not hold
alijs extiterint aut introductae sint de eo simpliciores laborare non debent neque hoc mouâ—ri aut perturbari sed quia bonae sunt ijs ad bonum vti Wherefore those rites and those good ceremonies ought onelie to bee kept which among the people of Christ doo edifie the onelie and true faith and the sincere worship of God concord charitie and the true and Christian or religious peace Therefore whether they bee exstant or brought in by the Bishops or by the Counsels Ecclesiasticall or by other authors whatsoeuer the simpler sort are not to trouble themselues about that neither with this to bee mooued or disquieted but because they bee good to vse them vnto that which is good And a little after Et quanquam nostri non omnes ritus aequè seruant cum alijs Ecclesijs id quod fieri non potest non est necesse fieri vt omnibus in locis Christianorum conuentuum vnae eadem ceremoniae vsurpentur non tamen vlli bonae piae constitutioni repugnant seseuè opponunt neque ita animati sunt vt ceremoniarum causa dissidia vlla commouere velint etiamsi aliquae non admodum necessariae esse iudicarentur modò Deo cultui atque gloriae huius non reperiantur contrariae quae veram in Iesum Christum fidem quae sola iustitiam conciliat non diminuant That is to say And although our men do not equallie obserue all rites with other Churches a thing which both cannot bee done and is not necessarie to bee done that in all places of the christian assemblies one and the same ceremonies should bee vsed yet they doo not repugne anie good constitution or oppose themselues neither are they so minded as that for the cause of ceremonies they will moue anie dissentions although some might be iudged to be not altogether necessarie so that they be not founde contrarie to God to his worship and glorie and which diminish not the true faith in Iesus Christ which onelie dooth iustifie Againe a little after Docentur hoc agnoscere homines traditiones humanas non complecti legem perpetuam immutabilem sed quemadmodum iustis de causis ab â—â—minibus instituuntur ita etiam iustis grauibus de causis re ita postulante violari abrogari atque mutari sine vllo peccato posse That is Men are taught also to acknowledge this that humane traditions doo not conteine a perpetuall lawe and vnchangeable but as for iust causes they are ordeined by meÌ„ so also for iust waightie causes the matter so requiring they may be violated abrogated and changed without offending The Augustine coÌ„fession Quaerat igitur aliquis an vitam hanc hominuÌ„ sine ordine sine ritibus esse velimus nequaquaÌ„ sed docemus pastores veros Ecclesiarum posse in Ecclesijs suis publicos ritus instituere That is Some maÌ„ theÌ„ may demand whether we would haue this life of men to be without order without ceremonies In no wise But we teach that the true pastors of the churches may in their churches ordeine publique rites or ceremonies I might set downe to the same effect out of the confessions of the other reformed Churches but I will omit it as not necessarie and onely note a fewe things out of Master Beza his Epistles After he hath set downe Epist 24. that things indifferent are so called not that men may without exception doo or leaue vndone as often as they lust and as it shall please them and not sinne but that they are so called because a man may vse and not vse them well and hee may vse them and not vse them euill And moreouer that things indifferent by themselues or otherwise doo after a sort change their nature when by some lawfull commaundement they are either commaunded or forbidden And further that the vse of them is generallie restrained by the lawe of charitie and speciallie or more particularlie by constitution either politicke or ecclesiasticall He addeth Etsi enim conscientias propriè solus deus ligat tamen quatenus vel Magistratus qui dei minister est iudicat interesse reipublicae vt quippiam alioqui per se licitum non fiat vel ecclesia ordinis decori adeóque aedificationis rationem habens leges aliquas de rebus medijs ritè condit eiusmodi leges pijs omnino sunt obseruande eatenus conscientias ligant vt nemo sciens prudens rebellandi animo possit absque peccato vel facere quae ita prohibentur vel â—mittere quae sic prâ—cipiuntur That is to say For although properlie God alone doth bind the consciences yet so farre as either the Magistrate which is the minister of God doth iudge it profitable for the Common-wealth that something should not be done which otherwise of it self is lawful or the Church hauing regard of order and comelines so of edification doth rightlie make some lawes in matters indifferent such lawes are many wise to bee obserued of the godlie and do so farre bind the conscience that no man wittinglie and willinglie with a mind to rebel can without sinne either doo the things which are so forbidden or leaue vndone things so commanded What haue I said more than the Churches do hold master Beza and all the most noble Instruments of GOD in these last daies if I should stand to shewe it Then ye may see when Master Greenwood doth so raginglie take on and strike he knowes not whom such furie is not fit for disputation in the Church Let not the reader here suppose that I goe about to maintaine that the prayer of any is pleasing to God which come with customarie words of course without feeling their wants or that I should hold that a set forme of prayer is of men to bee vttered without meditation and preparation as many doo of an idle custome as if the verie saying were a great seruice to God Nor yet doo I hold that all men alike stand in néede of prescript forme in their priuate praiers or that the feruencie of praier is not often times more vehement in vttering any request in priuate prayer without prescript forme than with it if a man be able I say further A man is to cal vpoÌ„ God not only as his néed in any particular shal vrge him euen at al times but he is also to stir vp himselfe and to prepare himselfe to begge moe things than bee in his present feeling and memorie which prescript formes are an help to direct him vnto And when a man commeth to the publike assemblies to pray the case is somewhat differing from making his priuate requests for there he commeth not to craue those things alone which hee feeleth present neede of or which hee is mooued withall but to make common requests with the whole congregation in all things that they are to craue To this he must now frame himselfe Among fiue or sixe hundred the particular wants or