Selected quad for the lemma: order_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
order_n	church_n	primitive_a	time_n	2,288	5	3.9470	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91570	The nevv distemper. Written by the author of the Loyall convert. Hilar. de Trin.Lib. 4. Hoc habet proprium Ecclesia; dum persecutionĕpatitur, floret; dum opprimitur, proficit; dum læditur, vincit: dum arguitur, intelligit; tunc stat quum superari videtur.	Quarles, Francis, 1592-1644.	1645 (1645)	Wing Q110; Thomason E17_20	19,252	30

approved by holy Martyrs and allowed of as most fitting untill the yeare of our Lord 1641. At which time multitudes of the lower sort of people throughout this Kingdome petitioned and tumultuously troubled the Parliament so that some of the Members perchance according to their inclination and others for quietnesse sake consented to the abolition and extirpation of Episcopacy the unadviz'd Contents of their clamorous Petitions Now if these Governments Hierarchicall and Presbyteriall be indifferent these Circumstances First of the time when Episcopall Government began Secondly of the unintermissive continuance for so many Ages Thirdly the credit of the persons confirming and approving it me thinks should cast such a kind of necessity upon it that the other being an untry'd Government and having no consent or approbation from the Supreme Magistrate and being onely cryed in by the Ignorant multitude affected to novelties and change should have no wise friend to plead for it Ob. We reade in the Scriptures of Elders which are members of a Presbyterie as it is written Titus 1. 5. For this cause I left thee in Creete that thou shouldest set in order things that are wanting and ordaine Elders in every City as I had appointed thee Also 1 Pet. 5. 1. The Elders which are among you I exhort who am also an Elder By which it appears that Titus had instructions to set up a Presbyterie Ans You take the Scriptures by snatches Had you read in Titus the next verse following but one you would have had Saint Pauls meaning with his words viz. ver 7. For a Bishop must be blamelesse as the steward of God not selfe-willed c. So that it plainly appeares that Elders mentioned in the 5. verse are expounded Bishops in the 7. Or had you compared Saint Peters first verse before mentioned with his fift in the same Chapter you would have found Elders no positive but a relative word no Office but a degree of Age. Ver. 5. Likewise the younger submitting themselves to the elder the Apostle here shewing what the behaviour of the Elder Ministers should be towards God and of the younger towards them So that if either of them had set up a Presbyterie it was suddenly pulled downe againe and Episcopacie which you so much dislike placed in the roome Ob. We are so far from disliking Bishops that where there is one we desire there were twenty nay that every Church in England and Ireland had a severall Bishop Diocesan Bishops we dislike Parochiall we allow Ans How suddenly to crosse a setled and warranted establishment your windmill fancies can make an alteration Titus c. 1. 5. had a cōmand from S. Paul to ordain Elders in every City which he interprets Bishops not in every Church or Parish which Ordinance the Church of England hath punctually observed from the Primitive times to this day But you have refractory and gainesaying spirits spirits of contradiction that understand not the Scriptures but by your owne Interpretations alwayes stirring but never setled hating order despising Government and resisting all Authority Ob. But this Episcopall Government had her originall from Rome and being poysoned in the Root it cannot be wholsome in the Branch Ans Ignorance is the mother of all Error Your Chronologie failes you If you carefully search Antiquities you will find your Objection against it a good Argument for it I confesse Episcopacie had her Originall partly from Rome but in those dayes when we conformed according to the Church of Rome the Church of Rome conformed according to the Word of God Rome was then part of the Primitive Church not being above 187. yeares after Christ The Bishops of Rome were so far then from being Antichrists that most of them were Martyrs and dyed for Christ Ob. But our Bishops have too great Revenues whereby they are occasioned to Riot pomp and glory Ans Those Princely Benefactors whose bountifull Pieties thought nothing too much for Gods Ambassadours and therefore enlarged their Revenues so much well knew their places and callings requir'd it whose gates were to be open to all commers and bread to be given to all that wanted Their Places owe reliefe to the fatherlesse comfort to the widow supplies to the needy and succour to all that are afflicted and hospitality to all strangers No their great Revenues are greater Eye-sores then Inconveniences if not abused Ob. But these great Revenues might have been decimated and the Tenth part might have sufficiently maintained a preaching Ministry and the nine other parts might have been added to the Kings Revenues which would have made him the richest and most glorious King in Christendome and taken away the necessity of Subsidies from the Subject Ans This is robbing Peter to pay Paul beggering the Keyes to inrich the Sword and the next way to bring a Curse upon the King and all his people in generall by a generall guilt of Sacriledge The Shewbread must not be eaten but upon more necessity then God be thanked His Majesty was at that time put to The holy Oyle must not be put unto a Civil use But His Majesties pious and resolute refusall thereof hath in one word fully and fairely answered this Objection Ob. But Bishops have too absolute a power which gives them occasion and opportunity to be tyrannicall and to exercise an arbitrary Jurisdiction over their Brethren Ans From the beginning I confesse it was not so neither stands it with wisdome or policy to suffer it to be so For the Government of the Church must have proportion with the Government of the State Government of severall natures in one Nation breeds confusion and that ruine We therefore being a mixt Monarchy necessarily require a mixture likewise in the Hierarchy which excludes all arbitrary power It is true absolute Monarchy and an unlimited Hierarchy are apt to fall into the distemper of Tyrannie and Democracie and a parity in Government is as apt to run into the disease of Tumult but of the two evils Tyrannie is the least by how much it is the easier to be cured A monster with one head is sooner overcome then a Hidra with many If our Hierarchy hath slipt into this irregularity it is great wisdome and reason for a Parliament to rectifie it Ob. But the King having the sole Election of Bishops and so much favouring them will hardly consent to the abridgement of their power and greatnesse so that being his Creatures their power will be upheld by him to the end that upon any difference betwixt him and his people they may be the more able to uphold him and ready to make a strong party for him so that the more their power is weakned the lesse his party will be prevalent whereby his Prerogative may want Advocates and the Liberty of the Subject no enemies Ans His Majesty by his yeelding to the Bill of taking away their Votes in Parliament hath given a sufficient Earnest of a further Moderation of their power and no question was and

will be ready to hearken to this or such like humble and reasonable Petitions for the extirpating this jelousie viz. That when any Bishop dyes or is translated he would give liberty to the whole Clergie and Freeholders of those Diocesses to choose nominate present foure learned and religious Divines most unblameable in life and doctrine able for government and diligent in preaching Of which foure His Majesty to prick one which may be consecrated Bishop of the Dioces By which meanes both His Majesty and His People having an interest in him he will be equally engaged who in cases of difference may become rather a Mediator then Partaker and receiving just power from the King may execute it as uprightly amongst his people Ob. But they are Lords and lord it over Gods Inheritance Whereas 1 Pet. 5. 3. forbids it Be not Lords over Gods inheritance and Christ Luk. 2● 25. sayes The Kings of the earth exercise Lordship but it shall not be so with you Ans Our Bishops were Lords as they were Peeres of the Land and as Peeres they had Votes in Parliament which being taken away they are no more now then what the dignity of their Calling and their owne Merits make them As for that place in S. Peter thus it is meant Ye shall not be Lords over Gods inheritance that is Tyrants Lords and Rulers being at that time none but Heathens and Persecutors whose tyrannie made the very name of Lord terrible and odious So that in that place by Lordship is certainly meant Tyrannie Neither can this imply a Parity in our Church for without a Superiority and Inferiority there can be no Government A Parity cannot be considered in order of Government but onely in the work of the Ministry In this all are fellow labourers In the other some command and some obeye S. Paul and Timothy had an especiall command and charge over other Ministers As for that place in S. Luke which you all edge The Disciples striving who should be the greatest among them our blessed Saviours answer was to this effect Let Kings exercise power and authority over their vassals as indeed their tyrannie made them little better but it shall be otherwise with you You are all fellow-servants to me that am your chiefe Lord and Bishop of your soules whilst I am here all superiority lyes extinct Christ was then the onely Governour and the Root of Government was in him But at his departure he gave some to be Apostles some to be Pastors c. and yet all those degrees were equall in respect of the work He himselfe said Ye call me Lord and so I am and yet Luk. 22. 27. I am among you as he that serveth whereby it manifestly appeares he intended a parity of the workers in respect of the worke not a parity in the government in respect of the workers Ob. Bishops whose office is to promote Religion and to advance the Gospel as is pretended and to encourage Preaching as the ordinary meanes conducing thereunto are so far from so doing that instead thereof they silence godly Ministers and put downe weekly Lectures which were set up at the proper charges and the piety of the people and to the great establishment of true Religion Ans Here lyes a Mysterie being the most crafty advantage the devilever took of popular piety Admit the piety of the honest hearted People was the first motive to these weekly Lectures how was that piety abused by those weekly Lecturers They were chosen by the people their maintenance consisting most of Gratuities came from the people which ebbed or flowed according as their Lunatick doctrines wrought upon the people Those Lecturers whose whole subsistance thus proceeded from the people must for their owne better lively hoods please the people And what more pleasing to the people then the preaching of Liberty and how should Liberty be enlarged if not peeced with Prerogative Then down goes Authority and up goes Priviledge Downe goes the Booke and up goes the Spirit Downe goes Learning and up goes Revelation who gaining credit in the weak opinions of the vulgar grew the Seminaries of all Ignorance and the nursing fathers of all Rebellion These are those godly Lecturers that Bishops put downe who never lost themselves so much as in not setting up better and more orthodox in their roomes which had taken away the ground of this Objection Ob. Our Bishops being proud idle covetous and Popishly affected are therefore fit to be extirpated Ans Admit some be so therefore such among them as are humble diligent charitable and enemies to Popery perish Shall they that are bad have more power to pull downe a setled Government then they that be good to keep it up Did Moses the man of God extirpate the Government of Priesthood because Aaron had a hand in the peoples Idolatry Or will you undertake that the Elders in a Presbyteriall Government shall be all faultlesse Let the guilty receive their respective punishments and let others take their office But the innocent to suffer with the guilty is a point of high injustice But admit this Government by Bishops had nothing to plead for it neither prescription nor continuance without Intermission nor the Authority of Parliaments in all Ages yet considering it is now a Government in Being it seemes not consonant to Reason or policy to extirpate it or take it away before an other Government be pitcht upon To pull downe one maine Pillar before another be made fit to supply the place and to support the roome is the next way to pull the Roofe upon our heads Hath not Episcopacie been long voted downe And is not the Assembly at this time divided and in controversie nay puzzled what Government to set up in the roome of it By which means occasion is administred to all disorder Liberty lyes open to all Schismes Sects and Heresies and Sectaries grow bold to vent their giddy headed opinions without controlment confirming themselves in their owne Errors infecting others with their new fangled and itching doctrines the nature whereof is like a Tetter to run till it over-run the whole Body Have not our eyes beheld all this which if these unsetled times should long continue as God forbid would gather such head and strengthen this our confused Kingdome that if her issue of blood were stopt in one place it would break forth in another and like Hercules his Monster if one head were struck off another would arise to the utter confusion of the true Protestant Religion which already begins to be the least part of this tottering Kingdoms profession and rather conniv'd at then exerciz'd by some Are not complaints preferd against Brownists and Separatists See a book Intituled ●hesumme of a 〈◊〉 at 〈◊〉 in Essex 〈◊〉 11. 1●43 unheard Nay are not men afraid to complain against them for feare of punishment Have not profest Anabaptists challenged our Ministers to dispute with them in their owne open Churches Have not their disputations