this account Now he would not be thought that his Principle is against visible Order and Form of Government under Christ's Dominion Nor against some visible Persons being exercised in some outward Order under his Government Thus far the point is granted and gain'd upon him and his Concession thereto the farther confirm'd in deeming our rendring his great Book to be against Church-Government outward Methods Orders and Rules c. A false Assertion Though we cannot reckon that Book of his to look with a better Face in the mian purport and Series of it especially considering his Third part from what 's mentioned in the Title and against R. Barclay's Book for Church-Government and in many other places and passages of that Book and in his Epistle in this his 7th part he is smiting at Establishing an outward Vniformity outward Things outward Directory c. But now we must take his meaning and principle to be not against visible Order and visible Form of Government under Christ's dominion nor against visible Persons being exercised therin How then shall we understand his meaning and principle Why did he not then more plainly distinguish it first and brought the Controversie into a more narrow compass and not have writ thus confusedly and shatteredly one while against another while for visible outward Order and Form of Government under Christs Dominion in his Church As in this Treatise the matter is further Evinced against him hereafter But wherein lies his Charge of Prevarication He gives us to know it is in twining the Word REPRESENTED into CONCERNED pag. 43. We are yet to seek and study how to find this Prevarication pretended considering the purport tenure and conexion of his Words For though now he owns visible Persons to be exercised or concerned in an outward Form of Government and Order under Christ's Dominion yet not that his inward Government is represented by them yet his Distinction before excluding visible Persons not only from representing Christ's inward Government but also from being invested with Power to execute i. e. to minister give forth or put in practice outward Laws Edicts c. in an outward Form of Government Visible appears to bespeak his sense than to exclude them from being concerned in an outward Form of Government and Order in the Church of Christ under his Dominion For if they do in no sense or degree represent Christ's Government how are they concern'd in it And if they have no power to execute minister or put in practice outward Order and Form of Government visible How are they either exercised or concerned in an outward form or order of Government under Christ's dominion But this is now granted us in the Affirmative So then wherein must we understand W. R's opposition to lie against outward Order outward Form of Church-Government outward Laws Edicts Rules Prescriptions c I presume not against any of his own making but against such as he calls G. Fox's c. as he has told us of a slighting G. F 's Rules Methods and Orders with respect to Church-Government see the Accuser c. pag. 83. But then I would know whether it is against all or some that G. F. has writ or given out If he says not against all but some then I intreat him to let 's know what SOME they are particularly What Instructions Rules or Methods they are he Condemns and that he deems condemnable as evil or unlawful in themselves We have divers times prest for a Catalogue of them that the Controversie might be more plainly distinguishable and brought into a narrow compass which now lies not only prolix and tedious in W. R's Books but also scattered confused and ambiguous in his Writings wanting in many places the supplement of his latter Thoughts and Meanings So that when he has write one Book it wants another to declare its meaning he has taken a great compass to write a very little matter in § 4. For his distinction between the words Represented and Concerned he says That many thousands are exercised in an outward Order under the Government of the King who if they should thence declare that they are the Representatives of his Government 't would be deem'd a Mood of Speech tending to the annihillating of the King's Prerogative And concludes the like in relation to Christ's Prerogative p. 43. But herein the man is under a Mistake in this Allusion his skill in the Law and the King's Prerogative and Government has fail'd him in this point For the King's Government is represented in all Courts of Judicature legally acting in his Name and by his Power whereby the King is look't upon to be present in all his Courts Yea every legal Minister and Conservator of the King's Peace even from the Justice to the Sheriff Constable or Peace-Officer does in his place and legal Office in some degree represent the Kings Government in the doing Justice and Conservation of his Peace And this no ways lessens but promotes the King 's legal Prerogative For the King in the Eye of the Law is Justitiarius Capitalis the Head or chief Justice and hath his subordinate Ministers and Justices under him legally impowered by him according to his just and legal Prerogative Now seeing W. R. is so much out and has lost his aim in his Comparison these things are mentioned to rectifie his Judgment And the Comparison as now stated may be better applied to Christ's Kingdom and Government who though he be the chief Overseer and Shepherd the great Apostle and Minister the great Ruler and Governour c. he has his Overseers his Apostles his Ministers and Servants and Helps in Government which is none other than Christ's Government in his Church and Kingdom and under his Dominion which I hope our Opposer dare not deny however he differ with us in the Application § 5. As concerning an Angry Waspish Pen wherewith thou twice over chargest the Pen-man adding That the more he stirs therewith the more will the Cause which he espouseth stink pag. 17 44. I must tell thee first I never met with a more Angry Waspish Pen than thy own though thy Malice and Wickedness hath been in divers parts of our Book deservedly reprehended thou hast in much thereof been mildly treated 2 dly I know no cause espoused by us therein than the Cause of Christ his Church and People which will live and remain sweet and pretious to all the upright in Heart when thy malicious Work and corrupt Cause will more and more appear naucious loathsom and stink above ground till swept into the Pit from whence it came and which thou art very near and without Repentance canst not escape it 3 dly What occasion have we or any of us given thee to rage and roar against us and like a persecuting Informer to go about to expose us in Print tending to disgust Authority and to bring more severe Persecution upon us as seeming to be at Vnion with the Papistical party
do not presently or immediatly see every thing that is recommended in the wisdom of God to be practised but must have time to weigh and consider matters before the Lord first in order to receive a clear understanding and judgment from him before they act therein So that in the mean time there must be a tender condescention patience and forbearance on all hands towards such not to look upon or judge their want of present clearness and their present fear to act because thereof an act of Refusal or Rebellion on their parts No no far be it from us knowing that such upright hearted ones even when but in a poor low and weak state will not oppose refuse or gain-say any thing they at present see not that 's either in it self good and honest or necessary for good order and society their uprightness tenderness honesty and fear towards God preserves them from contention and blind opposition in such cases whilst given up tenderly to wait till God reveal that unto them whether immediately or instrumentally which for a time they have not clearness in And be sure he will not be awanting in his divine counsel and openings to such § 2. To his charging the Pen-man with a groundness Complaint of Printing against G. F. without first proceeding judicially or hearing of matters face to face p. 39. Groundless Complaint is an untruth there was manifest ground for that complaint on W. R's own confession and principle viz. his enveighing against judging any man without hearing him Judging the merit of the cause without hearing the same Judging and Censuring a Person unheard in the defence of himself as being a grand Mark of Apostacy as in his Preface to his Christian-Quaker That W. R. has so ipso facto judged and condemned G. F. and others in divers things unheard in their own defence we have produced divers sufficient and unanswered Instances in our Treatise entituled The Accuser of our Brethren cast down and particularly his false construction on G. F's words viz. Do not make Bargains with that which is out of the Truth On which W. R. concludes a design of Imposition and so far as in G. F. lies to obstruct Friends from bargaining with such whom he condemns as having no right to bargain buy or sell until they answer by Condemnation or else that his meaning was that G. F. would not have Friends discourse with such nor yet to agree about any orderly Conference in order to a Reconciliation or Hearing of Differences c. concluding it must be one of these two meanings because a third he could not think of as the matter is fully treated on in our said Treatise Accuser p. 146 147 148 149 150 c. in which W. R's judgment and both his supposed Meanings are proved untrue But still to aggravate the matter against G. F. he saith He has used the utmost of his endeavours to obtain a Meeting with him for such an end that is for a hearing of matters face to face at several times since his last being in Bristol in the year 1677. and it will not be condescended to saith he p. 39 40. This still the more confirms the Complaint against him viz. his Printing against G. F. yea judging and condemning him without hearing the matters face to face for which he is condemned which is an extradicial and injurious proceedure and grand Mark of Apostacy so to do according to W. R's own judgment And his pretence That such a Meeting will not be condescended to will not excuse the fact that is his judging and censuring a Person unheard in his own defence c. as a grand Mark of Apostacy He might have had patience and rather waited an opportunity for meeting with G. F. than have condemned him in Print in divers things unheard in his own defence and that on his own false Suggestions Meanings and Constructions contrary to his own Doctrine which is become his own Self-condemnation § 3. Now wherein doth the Pen-man's false Suggestion and Vnchristian-like Treatment consist to prove him an Impious Prevaricator or down-right Forger as W. R. terms him p. 41. See how he attempts proof in these words viz. I shall at present cite only a few Instances thereof in his own words quoth he viz. p. 73. His main work is still to invalidate the Authority and Sentence of the true Church Pag. 87. Which answers and confutes W. R. in opposing outward Directions Methods and Forms relating to Church Government Pag. 88. His principal Objection against outward Orders Prescriptions Sentences Decrees Form of Church Government Discipline c. P. 91. His gain-saying and general Objections against us in relation to Church Government and Order amongst us the People called Quakers P. 261. Which answers his general opposition to outward Order Form and Discipline Thus hath W. R. cited our words by pieces Now if it be made appear that these things are justly laid to W. R's charge from his own words and sence thereof I hope he 'l see cause to be ashamed of his clamour of false Suggestion impious Prevaricator c. In order to which I thus directly proceed First That his work has been to invalidate the authority and sentence of the true Church On Mat. 5. and chap. 6. he saith Wherein there 's not the least tittle to countenance this sentence That the positive Sentence or Decision of the Church in matters of Conscience may be obligatory on Believers as in the third part of his Christian-Quaker p. 64. And his contest against those who he saith have approved a Plea for such a Church Government as claims a power of deciding matters relating to Conscience and outward things on occasion of Differences about worldly Estate and that others ought to obey such Decisions which says he in its natural consequence hath as we take it no less tendency than to claim Power over our Properties as well as Consciences as in the first part of his Christian-Quaker Note A sad but fallacious consequence detected in our Treatise Accuser from pag. 53 to p. 76. Is it not plain that W. R. has here endeavoured to invalidate the authority and sentence of the true Church by us pleaded if neither obligatory on Believers in matters of Conscience nor in outward things Or if the Church may not be allowed a Power of making decisions in matters of difference either relating to Conscience or outward Estate according to Mat. 18.17 and 1 Cor. 6. of what validity is the authority sentence or power of the Church with W. R What 's more plain against him than his own words before recited Secondly That he has opposed and objected against outward Orders Forms Discipline Prescriptions Sentences Decrees his Gain-saying and general Objections and Opposition to outward Order Form and Discipline relating to Church Government c. see how he argues the case against outward Orders Prescriptions Sentences Decrees c. under the new Covenant viz. because the Apostle's labour was to
be otherwise And indeed I can in Truth say That I never had a thought entred in my Breast that OUTWARD ORDER Methods Forms and Discipline were not to be exercised and proceeded in under the Government of Christ according as the Spirit of the Lord should direct and guide p. 42. Thus far W. R Observe He has here given a very fair and ample concession to Truth in words viz. 1st To the Apostles labours for the Churches establishment in the Faith and in the Power 2dly To the practice of that Form which the Power should lead them into 3dly To his care in the Marriage of his two Daughters and others that NO Proceedings in Marriages may be permitted in any such private Methods as may be scandalous to Truth 4thly To outward Order Methods Forms and Discipline that they are to be exercised and proceeded in under Christ's Government according as his spirit directs and guides Are they so A fair confession Had he alwayes kept to this method and language and so been consistent with himself the Controversie had been in a narrow compass But though he seems seriously to say That he never had a thought entred his breast that outward Order Methods Form and Discipline were not to be exercised and proceeded in under the Government of Christ I query on his contradiction how they should be exercised and proceeded in under Christs Government in his Church if so be it cannot consist with the tenor of the new Covenant for any to give forth outward Orders Sentences Decrees c Or if Christ doth invest none with Power from on high to establish such things relating to Conscience as outward Order Methods Forms Discipline c Or if no visible Persons be invested with power from Christ to execute outward Laws Prescriptions Order c How then are outward Order Methods Forms and Discipline to be exercised and proceeded in under Christ's Government And who are to exercise and proceed in them if not visible Persons May not they declare and practise outwardly what they have received from Christ inwardly How then shall the Law go forth of Sion and the Word from Jerusalem But if he grants that some persons are made instrumental under Christs Government to give forth good outward Methods Forms Order Discipline c. but not to be a bond on the Consciences of others who have believed in the everlasting Light This appears contradictory again William was thy proceedings in the Marriage of two Daughters and thy care that Truth might not be scandalized no bond upon thine or their Consciences How are outward Methods Forms Order and Discipline then to be practised and proceeded in under Christ's Government Must they be so practised exercised and proceeded in by Believers without Conscience or without Obligation or being binding upon their Consciences Strange Doctrine loose and confused and not consistent with any Religious tender Conscience towards God or Christ which requires all to be done in his name and to his glory But after all our Opposers variations inconsistencies and whirlings he is fled to this Refuge or rather Subterfuge viz. That his writing shews dislike to Man's Pretence to establish outward Orders relating to matters of Conscience as the Order of the Gospel or to take upon him the giving forth of any outward Rules c. relating to Faith and Discipline in the Church with intent that they should become a Bond upon others to submit thereto further than from a Recommendation unto the Conscience a service may be seen therein according to the measure of Light given c. pag. 41. Observe 1 st This censures only MAN's PRETENCE to establish outward Orders relating to Conscience c. 2dly Man's taking upon him to give forth any outward Rules in Faith or Discipline in the Church with intent they should become a Bond upon others to submit further than from a Recommendation to the Conscience a service MAY be seen therein according to the measure of Light given c. Whereupon 't is to be noted first That this does not oppose the Spirit of Christ making use of man or men as instrumental to establish or give forth outward Orders Rules c. relating to Conscience Faith or Discipline in the Church to be submitted unto 2 dly Nor such outward Orders Rules c. as a service may be seen in according to the measure of the true Light given But only a dislike to MAN's PRETENCE TAKING VPON HIM therein Which I understand is intended as without the true Spirits Guidance Which appears still to be an Abatement and Extinuation of his more general reiterated Opposition and Noise against ANY giving forth outward Orders Prescriptions c. or being invested with Power from Christ to execute outward Laws Orders c. under Christs inward Government because the new Covenant and its Law is inward For now he only opposeth Man's Pretence and Taking upon him in these cases and who must be Judge that he is but a Pretendor and an Actor in his own will if the Rules Directions or Laws he declares or gives out be in themselves Honest Lawful and Just yea Convenient and Needful not of Man nor by the Will of Man Were not this to judge of Spirits without outward evidence or proof against them But if our Opposer would place the Controversie against some Rules Orders c. among us as being in themselves either unjust unlawful or dishonest and could make sufficient proof thereof that would both greatly narrow and soon determine the Controversie For that can be no good nor true Spirit that gives forth bad or unjust Laws otherwise we have no reason to give credit to him in his bitterly smiting with words of hatred against any Men or Persons among us whilst speaking ministring or acting things just lawful or honest and needful as bound in Conscience to declare and advise others to practise and which he must grant them Liberty both to speak and act or else hee 'l miserably interfer with his pretended Liberty of Conscience Seeing whatsoever things are honest just and of good report are to be thought on and practised That W. R's great Book aforesaid as it is against R. B's Book for Church-Government is against Church-Government so far as it relates to an outward Form of Church-Government outward Order Rules Methods c. And this is no Prevarication as now he renders it as is evident from divers passages before recited and by himself frequently contradicted § 4. Also 't is a manifest falshood where W. R. saith That the Prevaricating Pen-man doth not quote any Sentence of his confuted by his asserting in a Paper dated London 26th of the 3d Moneth 1673. That God hath in his Wisdom afforded those Helps and Governments in the Churches which are not to be despised being in subjection to Christ the one Head and Law-giver c. This was signed by W. R. among other Friends pag. 42. If no visible Persons be invested with Power from
People call'd Quakers in their Vindication from the opposition and abuses of Opposers and Gain-sayers of Truth in matters known to be universally own'd by them and this both with their tacit Consent and Approbation Must we seek for a Deputation from the People called Quakers throughout England c. in all Cases wherein there is a present necessity of their Vindication when generally abused in Print by Adversaries of divers sorts For I tell W. R. he merits not so much as the Name of a Quaker in abusing at least the major part of them in Print as he has done to render them Popish Odious and Infamous and rather justifying the Pope and Lords of the Spanish Inquisition p. 21. than many of them And his disaffected Party are not so numerous as he would have us think p. 23. far short to be sure of those he writes against and abuseth in Print for his smiting at the publick and faithful Ministers who are approved of most generally by the People called Quakers is a Reflection and Scandal upon that People § 2. Our observation on the 42d Disaffection shews that our Objection lies not against the outward Government under which we live nor yet against the inward Government of Christ for Christ's inward Government in his Church and his spiritual Kingdom and extent thereof as also our innocent Conversations towards the outward Government we have plainly asserted in our Treatise against the Accuser pag. 114 115 116 118. Though W. R's words are cited at large more fully to shew his sense and distinction upon the inward Government of Christ where he adds viz. Which is not represented by Persons visible by carnal Eyes invested with Power from him to execute outward Laws Prescriptions Orders Edicts or Decrees in an outward form of Government visible Wherein we reasonably took his Objection to lie as much against visible Persons being so invested with Power from Christ to execute outward Laws Prescriptions c. and against an outward Form of Government visible in his Church as against Christ's Government being Represented by Persons visible But now he pitches his Objection upon the word REPRESENTED questioning Whether it is not a Contradiction in common sense to conclude That Persons visible can be the Representatives of the inward Government of Christ Which was not our Assertion nor did we conclude that Persons visible are the Representatives of Christ's inward Government in a strict sence absolutely or solely as in Christ's stead And therefore his Objection supposes that to be our position which we never asserted Yet not to loose nor lessen any part of Christs Government we have plainly asserted That 't is exercised by him both Immediately and Instrumentally in his Church Immediately and principally by himself and Instrumentally in some measure by his Ministers and Servants as well as he teaches and instructs both Immediately and Instrumentally as in our first and second unanswered Propositions about Church Government And therefore as we prefer Christ's inward and immediate Government by himself as Principal and his governing Instrumentally by his Servants But in some Measure as our words are this shews that we do not render them the absolute Representatives of his inward Government and spiritual Kingdom though we may truly and tenderly assert They do by the inward Assistance of the Power and Spirit of Christ in some measure livingly represent or signifie declare and shew forth the inward and spiritual Government of Christ as being his faithful Servants and Ambassadours yea some are called Ambassadours in Christ's stead in and through whom Christ ministers instructs commands orders and rules And the holy Ghost made some Overseers and appointed Helps and Governments in the Church as we have laid down in our third Proposition Especially for the sake of the younger and weaker Members Children and such as are of under Age as to Truth and experience in the work of the Lord. Our Adversary answers not this Proposition which is so plain tender and submissive to Christ in his behalf and preference And therefore W. R's inferring and charging the fruit of a confused Anarchical Principle on us in reference to our said Disaffection follows not in Truth but rather shews it to be the fruit of his own Prejudice and Enmity From whence also his scornful Question proceeds viz. Whether the Pen-man hath known and hath in pivate a Catalogue of the Names of such visible Persons whom he may esteem the Representatives of Christ's inward Government pag. 16 17. He fallaciously obtrudes and imposes his word REPRESENTATIVES still in this case upon us extending it beyond our Intention and what our words will bear craftily evading and giving the GO-BY to our Propositions in the Case where we signifie That IN SOME MEASURE Christ governs Instrumentally c. see our five Propositions in our said Treatise against the Accuser of the Brethren p. 114 115 116. § 3. Whereas we took his opposition to be against visible Persons being concerned in an outward form of Government and order in the Church of Christ. Hereupon he shews himself very angry and exclaims against the weight of the Pen-man's Iniquity charges him with Prevarication insinuating as if according to my Principle says he there were not visible order and form of Government under Christs Dominion nor any visible Persons exercised in any outward Order under his Government p. 43. Whereby he has now plainly granted that according to his Principle there is both visible Order and a form of Government under Christs dominion and Visible Persons exercised in an outward order under his Government for in the two contraries his disowning the one owns the other his opposing the Negative grants the Affirmative herein But he then should have writ more distinctively consistently and plain in telling us What visible and outward form of Government and Order he would set up And what has he so much exclaim'd against and not to have appeared so general in his opposition to outward Orders Forms Rules Prescriptions Decrees c. as he has done in divers passages of his Book and particularly that in his first part of his Christian-Quaker p. 73. in his opposing the Establishment or giving forth of outward Orders Prescriptions Sentences or Decrees as a Bond on the Consciences of Believers rendring this more like the Old than the New Covenant And his opposing Visible Persons being invested with Power from Christ to execute outward Laws Prescriptions Orders Edicts or Decrees in an outward form of Government visible as 't is plain in the Title-page of his third part The frequent Reiteration of these and such like passages and Words shew his Objection was against Visible Persons being impowered by Christ to execute or minister outward Laws Orders c. in a visible and outward form of Government else what needed he write so slightily frequently against outward and visible form of Government outward Laws Edicts Prescriptions Orders Decrees c What 's all his Noise come to on
pretending to discover Principles and Practices relating to George Fox and hiâ— Party as thou callest them that run paraleâ— with the Church of Rome And then to excuse this thy persecuting Cain-like and Judas-like work against us thou falsly placest it on the Will of the Lord saying The Will of the Lord be done p. 17. whilsâ— thou art doing the Will of the Devil thy Master and Father of Lyes and Lyars adding That 't is but just that Deceit and Idolatry should be discovered in whomsoever c. p. 18. But come on That thou dost do quickly Let 's see what exact Similitudes and eminent Discoveries thou hast shewn and made of our seeming Vnion and Paralel with the Church of Rome Thus thou attempts it viz. 1st 'T is affirmed of the Pope that he is Christ's Vicar on Earth Accounts himself invested with Power to execute outward Laws Edicts and Decrees Herein sayst thou I place not much difference between the Pope on the one part and the Pen-man and some of his the Brethren on the other And why so The Pen-man and his Brethren sayst thou account themselves the Representatives of Christ's inward Government over the Conscience p. 18. That 's an Untruth by the way and none of our words but a scornful Pervertion Where did we so account our selves 'T is improper and unsound to say That visible Men or finite Creatures are the Representatives of Christs inward spiritual Government over the Conscience which is endless and where Christ himself reigns Where did we ever assume a Government in Christ's stead over the Conscience But only as his Servants and Witnesses by his Spirit do commend our selves to every mans Conscience in the sight of God and thereby only represent or shew forth by sound Doctrine and good Conversation That Christ must rule and be obey'd as the Head of his Church which vastly differs from the Pope's false sence of his being Christ's Vicar or Representative on Earth Thou addest viz. And that they are invested with Power to execute outward Laws Edicts and Decrees And what follows on thy discovery and similitude Therefore the Pope and G. F. and his Party seem to be in Vnion and run Paralel with the Church of Rome That 's false The true Apostles and primitive Christians had outward Laws Commands Decrees c. which they practised So hath the Pope and the Church of Rome though not the same What follows Did they therefore seem to be in Union Thy Similitude and Inference are fallacious We differ in the Power and Manner of Execution and our Laws and Decrees which Christ hath given us differ from the Popes The Popes Power is Carnal and Coercive Ours Spiritual and Perswasive The Popes Ecclesiastical Laws Edicts Canons and Decrees are to promote a false Church Idolatrous Worship and Superstition Our Laws and Decrees c. are first written in our Hearts and taught us by Christ Jesus enjoyning us to eye believe and follow him as our Rock our Way and Leader in Holiness and Purity of Life and Conversation Therefore thy Comparison is silly and abusive here as well as Malicious The Pope claims a succession from Peter and Peter's Primacy as their term is as the Rock and Foundation of the Church So do not we but deny that Doctrine as false believing and owning Christ to be the Rock and Foundation nor yet do we assume or pretend any Priviledge Power or Authority over Christ's Church from an outward succession but only being Christ's Witnesses Ministers Servants and Ambassadours are assisted by his immediate Presence Power and Wisdom with us to assist order and govern us in his service and the service of one another in love Again thou proceedest in thy Similitudes viz. 2dly The Pope likewise affirms that the Church of Rome is the true Church and in the true Faith The Romish Clergy teach that we must believe as the Church believes Herein I cannot justly place much difference between the Popish Clergy and Pen-man if he approved this Doctrine viz. The true Church is in the true Faith that is in God and we must either believe thus as the true Church believes or else it were but both a Folly and Hypocrisie to profess our selves Members thereof pag. 18. Thus thou wouldst make me whom I presume thou intendest to resemble the Pope and his Clergy and to seem to be in union with them But dost thou not own the Doctrine to be true in it self viz. 1 st That the true Church is in the true Faith that is in God And darest thou deny this What sayest thou to it Speak out man and be plain to the Point 2 dly That we must either believe THUS i. e in God as the true Church believes or else 't were Hypocrisie to profess our selves Members thereof If thou canst not deny the Doctrine in it self why hast thou made this an Instance of our seeming to be in union with the Popish party For thou knowest in thy Conscience first That it was not spoken of the Church of Rome but in general of the true Church whose Faith is IN GOD which we neither believe of the Church of Rome nor does the Church of Rome believe so of us Where 's then our seeming Union secondly To believe in God as the true Church doth herein the true Church is made an instance and example of Faith in God not to make the Church's believing this or that the sole Reason and Cause of my or our believing the same this were Implicit 't is as not because for Christ who is God is the original efficient cause both of the Church's and my Faith which is in him which is the one living substantial Faith wherein is Unity Whilst thou canst not confute the said Doctrine behold thy Similitude what an empty FALSE SHEW it is What real Protestants in Europe could escape thy Censure of Resembling the Pope and his party nay how canst thou escape thy self upon such Fallacious Similitudes as thou hast invented against us The Pope and his party believe there there is a God a Christ a Heaven a Hell Immortality future states So do all true Protestants What follows according to thy Similitude Ergo all true Protestants seem to be at union with the Pope and his party The Pope and his party believe there is one true â—â—iversal Church and one true Faith So do the Protestants but not so of each other they are not in Union no more are we with the Pope or his party but with the best Reformed Protestants wherein they differ'd from and oppos'd the Church of Rome The Pope believes he is a true Christian and no Apostate So dost thou W. R. believe thou art a true Christian c. What follows Ergo thou dost Resemble the Pope and seemest to be at Union with the Papistical party Is not this argumentum ad hominem like thy Similitudes and more resembling them than thou hast resembled G. F. and his party to the Pope and Church of
draw the outward Jew off from the observation of their outward Ordinances to the Word and Law in the heart and because the new Covenant was not to be like unto the old he therefore appeals To every Ingenious and Impartial Reader whether it can consist with the tenor of the new Covenant for ANY to attempt the establishment or giving forth of outward Orders Prescriptions Sentences or Decrees to be a Bond upon the Consciences of those who have believed in the Everlasting Light especially those of the Gentiles stock his Chr. Qua. part 1. p. 73. How now William Is not here general Opposition c. detected and answered in our said Treatise Accuser c p. 88 89. Another Instance is where W. R. saith viz. We have no ground either from the Word of the Lord the appearance of Christ or from the Scriptures of Truth since Christ's appearance in the flesh to expect that any should be invested with Power from on high to establish such things relating to the Conscience i. e. outward Orders Prescriptions Sentences Decrees as before much less that the Children of Light under the new Covenant should be led by the eternal Spirit and Word in the heart unto such Conformity his Chr. Quaker part 1. pag. 75. What sayst thou yet William to these plain Instances out of thy own great Book Surely hadst thou but taken a more strict and serious notice of them as plainly cited in our Treatise thou wouldst not have charged any of us with false Suggestion or Forgery in representing as if thou hadst wrote against outward Orders Forms Discipline This is no Forgery nor Prevarication William Peruse thy great Book a little better with our Observations upon it in our said Treatise Consider in calmness if thou mayst not be ashamed thus to evade and deny thy own words and of thy clamour and saying That not a word is cited nor yet can be out of any thing thou hast written that may carry such an import viz. as if thou hadst wrote against outward Orders Forms Discipline c. in a general way p. 41. Thou writest That in one Book which thou denyest the plain import of as well as the matter in another saying and unsaying Be ashamed therefore and also of thy roaring and belching out such Slanders and Falshood also as The impious prevaricating Pen-man doth not quote any sentence of mine confuted c. p. 42. What hast thou done less than wrote against outward Orders Forms Discipline c What means thy saying before That we have NO GROUND either from the Word of God Christ or Scriptures to expect that ANY should be invested with Power from on high to establish such things as before Is not here general Opposition both to such things and to such a Conformity Please to review another instance or two of thy Opposition as before viz. 1 st Where in the Title-page of the 3d part of thy Christian-Quaker where to the inward Government of Christ thou opposest visible persons being invested with power from Christ to execute outward Laws Prescriptions Orders Edicts or Decrees in an outward Form of Government visible c. See now how general thy opposition is and detected in our Treatise Accuser p. 117 118 119 to p. 137. 2 dly The comparison before-cited between the Pope who is a visible man in accounting himself invested with Power to execute outward Laws Edicts and Decrees on the one part and the Pen-man and some of his Brethren on the other part herein thou sayst thou placest not much difference between them c. p. 18. of thy 7th part Who can here reasonably understand thee otherwise than that thou opposest the Doctrine or Principle it self as well as the Pope viz. That any visible man is invested with Power from Christ to execute outward Laws Edicts and Decrees under Christ's Government lest thou shouldst resemble the Pope For we may rationally take it for granted in those things doctrines or principles wherein thou comparest the Pope any of us thou wouldst be lookt upon as of a contrary mind and judgment that thou mightst not be thought like the Pope in any thing whereof thou condemnest others as either like him or as not much differing from him otherwise thy comparisons or similitudes do condemn thy self as well as others whom thou smitest at And so if thou countest it Popery or resembling the Pope to say That a visible man or men are invested with power from Christ to execute or put in practice any outward Laws Edicts or Decrees under Christ's Government then we must take thee as saying and as we have understood thee That no visible man or men are so invested with Power from Christ to execute outward Laws c. Which still shews thy oppositions and objections before rehearsed and clears thy opponent from the foul Imputations of Impious Prevaricator down right Forger Impious Prevaricating Pen-man c. and thy self a notorious Slanderer therein as well as shews thy inadvertency and overly shuffling and foully slubbering over matters under debate and controversie and with what blunt and dull tools and weapons thou art toiling and fighting Howbeit we may hear W. R. a little further in his attempts to clear himself and prove his charge of false Suggestion Impious Prevaricator c. he alledges chiefly two things viz. 1st That he owns the Government of Christ in his Church knowing that 't is his right to govern his Church which W. R. also confesseth The Pen-man signifies he understands by Church-Government Observe by the way this is general and not an Answer sufficient to clear him 't will not do his business Against whom did he alledge this when we never questioned Christ's Government in his Church But the Pen-man and his Friends viz. the peaceable People call'd Quakers own Christs Government both in the inward and in the outward parts of it both as he governs and rules immediately by his Spirit and instrumentally by his faithful Servants invested with power and wisdom from him as before explained which I find not that W. R. hath owned with any consistency or clearness but has appeared very inconsistent opposit and frequently contradictory both to us and to himself in the matter saying and unsaying first in one Book then in another as is fully evinced in our Treatise entituled The Accuser c. as from p. 83 to p. 91. and from p. 204 to p. 227. and also in this 2 dly He alledges that he has testified That the Apostles labours were to establish the Churches in the Faith and in the Power leaving them so established to be in the practice of THAT FORM which the Power either had or should lead them into Moreover saith W. R. My proceedings in the Marriage of two Daughters within three years last past and frequent concern amongst Friends in taking care that no proceedings in Marriages may be permitted in any such private Methods as may be scandalous to Truth shews my practice and principle to
Contradiction to many Friends about the Tree of Knowledge that God forbad Man to eat of The Question was put concerning thy self thus viz. What kind of Preacher would he make if he should tell People The Tree of Knowledge is good for Food the Tree of Knowledge is not good for Food This Question thou takest to be grounded on a down-right Falshood for sayest thou I never asserted that the Tree of Knowledge was good for Food and that it was not good for Food neither have I written any thing to shew my own sence either way p. 50. No! That 's strange and a gross and manifest Untruth and Shuffle I am sure And I may ask thee if thou hast not belyed thy own Conscience in these Words How darest thou now utter in Print that thou hast not written any thing to shew thy own sence either way i. e. Whether the Tree of Knowledge be good for Food or not good for Food Hast thou not in the first place written to shew thy own sence That it is good for Food by thy plainly opposing the contrary Doctrine as preached by divers among us viz. That the Tree of Knowledge was not good for Food Hast not thou plainly objected against this Doctrine Instancing That a Father may command his Child not to eat an Apple his Rebellious eating no Argument to prove the Apple in it self not good for Food And we know not on what Foot of Truth any one can assert that the Tree of Knowledge is not good for Food And to prove the Tree of Knowledge in it self good for Food thou also didst cite John 17. This is Life Eternal to know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent Thence infering so that Knowledge is the way to Life But did God forbid the knowledge of himself and of his Son to Man in Innocency when he forbad him to eat of the Tree of Knowledge Didst thou not here plainly enough shew thy sence That the Tree of Knowledge was good for Food And doth not this imply that the Serpent was more kind to Man in moving to eat of it than his Maker was in forbidding him There 's no need of thy adding as in it self for the Tree is it self With what Conscience then durst thou adventure not only to say Thou never assertedst that the Tree of Knowledge was good for Food but also that thou hast not written any thing to shew thy own sence either way Oh wonderful I somewhat admire at such a manifest gross Untruth that thou shouldst undertake in several Pages with several Objections to oppose a Doctrine as thou didst that of the Tree of Knowledge not being good for Food And now to flam us off with telling us That thou hast not written any thing to shew thy own sence either way Hast thou not here play'd Legerdemain to write so plainly in opposition to another's Position and yet tell us Neither hast thou written any thing to shew thy own sence either way For shame leave off such Impertinent Scribling and spend thy time better in the Creation But yet what reason for the Question viz. What kind of Preacher wouldst thou make if thou shouldst tell People the Tree of Knowledge is good for Food the Tree of Knowledge is not good for Food For the first thou hast shewn thy sence plainly however thou wouldst now smother it The latter appears deducible from thy finding out a Salvo or Plea for some that may declare That the Tree of Knowledge is not good for Food for thou wouldst not be understood to reflect on all that have used that Expression because thou questionest not but many have so express'd themselves to shew that if we should feed upon or admire any excellent Qualification or Endowment and not have the Eye of our mind Chiefly unto the Giver we might then come to a loss See the Second Part of thy Christian-Quaker p. 28 29. Thus hast thou excused the Doctrine before opposed by thee viz. That the Tree of Knowledge is not good for Food § 4. As for G. F's Epistle against the envious Spirits and Persecutors of those who could not observe their outward Things Traditions c. thou dost much insist on these Words viz. They that do so viz. set up outward things gather People to themselves not unto God c. If these be truly cited G F. best knows his own Intention and in point of Justice ought rather to have been enquired of as to have been his own Interpreter than to have been brought forth in Print under the disguise of a prejudicial Interpretation and straining his Words and turning his sence besides whatever was intended in them or by him And what hast thou got by the said Citation thou hast so much insisted on If thou strainest the Litteral sense thus That no outward things are to be set up nor outward Order practised in the Church of Christ. Thou wilt therein farther interfer with thy self having already granted outward Form and Order c. to be in the Church of Christ yea even the case of Marriage as what care thou tookest about the marrying thy two Daughters c. But G. F's intention and sence in the words of his said Epistle is by another hand fully spoken to and therefore I forbear enlarging on them However thy construction That out of G. F 's Mouth he and his Brethren may justly be compared to Cain for persecuting their Brethren for no other cause than for not submitting to outward things c. p. 50. This Construction I look upon to be very gross and reproachful and that it proceeded from a persecuting spirit that is a false and unjust Judge And as false and malicious William is thy dark smiting in telling of such sort of Preachers i. e. among the People called Quakers whose Pride and Insolency might prompt them at this day to say Though you are our Witnesses that we have often declared that our Commission from God was to turn People from the Power of Satan to God that so they might all come to be ordered and governed by the appearance of the Power in themselves yet we did NOT mean but that when we had gathered any into the Truth we should be those who ought to have the RULE over them and that such should observe our Traditions or follow us Without giving a Reason why and though they might in Truth be submitting themselves one to another in the Lord according to the Apostles Counsel yet all of them must submit to us and reverence honour and obey us c. pag. 50 51. Thus far thou William But that any Preachers among the said People called Quakers have so said or preached after this exalted imperious and inconsistent manner I must take leave to deny till I have better proof from thee than thy quoting thy self or thy saying that in the 48 49 pages of the 3d part of thy Treatise entituled The Christian-Quaker 'T is so written which is
against us crying out against Impositions Forms Prescriptions Laws c. but show no Unjust nor Unrighteous Law Form Order or Prescription practised among us and therefore in your Madness and Fury are but beating the Air and unjustly and falsly accusing us with Impositions lording over our Brethrens Consciences And John Pennyman he is for crying out Away with your set form of Words of THEE and THOV he is offended at the Form of sound Words his Backsliding Apostacy and vain Imaginations have been these many Years openly manifest and time will further discover him to be a false Prophet against us The Lord has brought us into that Form and Order which neither Apostates fallen Spirits nor the Father of Lyes shall ever be able to throw down or lay waste We direct People to the Light and Power of Christ within to guide them both in the Life and Form of Godliness Form of sound Words and to obey from the Heart the Form of Doctrine received from Christ and therefore we impose no blind Obedience nor dark Formality upon any but desire that all may come to be living Christians in Spirit Life Power and Holiness of Conversation that their Conversations may be as becometh the Gospel of Christ but you Backsliders are of disobedient and loose Spirits else you would not rage roar and foam out your own Shame as you do against the Servants of Christ or that Form and Order which we are sure he has brought us into and wherein we are Conscientiously concerned to follow our Lord Jesus Christ in Humility and herein we can distinguish between formal Christians and living Christians and would have none to enter into either extream of Formality without Life and Power or under pretence of Life and Power to deny or oppose all Form and Order for there may be a formal pretended Christian without Life and Power but no real living Christian in Power without true Form And this distinction we had from the beginning and therefore alwayes believed that the true Power would not lead into any false or wrong Form nor into any Disorder or Confusion knowing that our God is the God of Order and not of Confusion he is the God of Love Peace and Union and not of discord or strife § 4. And Thomas Crisp hadst thou kept to that which first Convinced thee and raised up a love in thee to Truth and the People of God called Quakers thou wouldst not have espoused such unsound Doctrine as this of R. R. printed and published in thy Pamphlets among thy pretended weighty Truths nor reckoned it among sound Doctrines as thou hast done even in thy third Edition p. 22. where after he hath confessed in these words viz. I know that the Lord hath his People amongst them meaning those called Quakers as in All Forms and such as love and fear the Lord doing the thing which is just and right The words which I chiefly take notice of are these of his which follow viz. And such are accepted with me as bone of my bone and as my Brother Benjamin that came of the free-woman and are in that freedom fitted to act in ALL FORMS as the Lord their Light shall lead them that they may replenish the Earth This Doctrine or Proposition I look upon to be very unsound and tending to plain Ranterism making no distinction in Forms but including ALL FORMS without Distinction under the leading of the Light of the Lord Which also is an absurd begging of the Question for his Light doth neither lead nor fit the Children of the free-woman to act in All Forms of Professions but in its own form or way most proper and peculiar to it self as the Form of Godliness is to the Power of God and Godliness for granting the Lord may have a People that mean well under other Forms as he has other Sheep that are not of this Fold Howbeit many that mean well are clouded and mistaken under wrong Forms empty Shews Ceremonies and Circumstances only of mens inventions and imposing which the Light of the Lord guides them not into being but humane Traditions and Impositions of men neither proper nor suitable to divine Worship or to a true spiritual Christian state and therefore it is not the freedom of the Children of the Free-Woman to act in ALL or any such Forms nor will the Light of the Lord lead them therein nor may R. R's words be applied to the Children of New Jerusalem who under the dispensation and order of the new Covenant nor are they properly applicable to them where he saith Why may not God enjoyn that as an Ordinance to day and give his Power to it also which to Morrow he will lay aside as useless and by his withdrawing his Power from it leave it no better than an Idol as in pag. 19 20. of thy 3d Edition This cannot be truly said of the Ordinances of the new Covenant which are not to be compared to the Shadows under the old and therefore these his Expressions as applied to this Dispensation which we are under which is that of the Gospel and new Covenant do tend to lead into Uncertainty Instability Looseness and Ranterism Good Works are ordained of God the practice of pure Religion he enjoyns us to walk it and he will not forsake the Children of the Free-Woman who therein serve him in his free Spirit This R. R. whose pretended Testimony thou hast espoused his exclaiming accusing and smiting unjustly also like the rest of you about Imposing upon Brethrens Consciences Prescriptions Impositions and falsly accusing Friends with the Spirit of Dominion and Rule over the Conscience Telling of the Yoke of your Prescriptions your carnal and literal Impositions G. F 's comely Order G. F. and his Tribe of Proselites creating a Dominion over your Brethren and the movings of God in them and claiming a power to judge of all Differences prescribing Rules and Orders c. falsly comparing Friends with the Pope himself and accusing them with swelling Soveraignity over the Minds and Consciences of men heavily imposing upon others in such Circumstances and Indifferences wherein the Kingdom of God doth not consist c. With many more Falshoods and unjust Reflections and Abuses without innumerating or giving particular Instances of those Impositions Rules Orders complained of only bids us witness the Hat which I take to be because we could not own J. Perrot and his party in their keeping on their Hats in publick Prayer R. Rich being one of his Party a Disciple and Agent in his Cause confounded in his Judgment with a Spirit and Notions of Ranterism though sometimes he confessed to the Power of God among Friends but too lofty in his Spirit he now seems to be adopted by you in his opposition in this his Paper which thou hast printed for a weighty and sound Testimony I mean Robert Rich's whom I take to be thy Author Why didst not set his Name but R. R which may
he interfers with himself in his plea for liberty of Conscience § 4. W. R's Confutation to himself apparent in confessing That God hath afforded those helps governments in the Church which are not to be despised in a Paper signed by him among Friends at London 1673. His instance of W. P against the Penman groundless We clear'd from imposing a bâ—ind Obedience and W. Penn's own words farther cited to clear his intention for liberty of Conscience and from what § 5. W. R's unfair dealing and mistaken opposition against R. Barclay's propositions concerning the Power positive Sentence and Judgment of the Church of Christ as being binding in SOME CASES of consequence upon Believers the Spirit of Christ being the only proper Judge c. The point at length granted by William Rogers himself § 6. Wherein W. Rogers's discourse tends to Libertism blind Opposition Confusion and Ranterism A blind Refusal of Submission to what the Lord in his Servants requires condemned as well as blind obedience A Medium between both proposed to prevent a blind Refusal and blind Obedience Of W R's wrong Measures false Judgment and Suppositions Envy and Scorn Laughter hypocritical Lamentation Praying Cain's Sacrifice his lofty conceited and contemning way of writing § 1. IT is true and I am still of the same mind that having the great ends of true Religion and Christian Society in our Eye viz. An unspotted Life Love and good Works c. as the very intent of our care and proceedings in the Church of Christ we can the more easily concur and accord as to Circumstances and outward Methods and in the Wisdom of God so condescend one to another and accomodate matters as not to divide about them c. And I do not find that our Opposer produceth any seeming Contradiction to this Citation out of our Book as he endeavours upon our following words viz. We would be understood that those things commended among us as necessary for good Order and Holiness of Conversation are not recommended doubtfully or upon meer Supposition nor as matters of indifferency to be practised or rejected but in faith full assurance as answering Gods Witness and Truth in the Consciences and that such will meet with a tender Reception and not Opposition in all tender and upright hearts Where 's now the seeming Contradiction in this to the precedent Passage See what observation our Opposer makes upon them He observes That the Penman seems thereby to look three ways at once p. 36. though his sight and observation has greatly fail'd him herein as first In commending things necessary for good Order and Holiness of Conversation NOT as matters of Indifferency To this W. R. thus saith viz. Wherein I take the truest sense of his mind to be and that the first citation importing his readiness to condescend was to cover himself and others from the guilt of Apostacy and Innovation He is mistaken in his observation here there was no such intent nor necessity for the Pen-man to cover himself or others from that guilt for to commend things necessary for good Order and Holiness of Conversation not as Indifferent but Essential to such Order c. and a Condescention in circumstances and accomodating matters so as not to divide c. may very well stand together especially where there 's unity of spirit and affection for if there be true love and unity in the greater matters essential to good Order c. 't is more easie for such as are tender and upright-hearted to find out accomodation and concurrence in lesser circumstances So that still 't is to be understood they must settle in an union and concurrence at last otherwise how should they joyntly do business or service for the Truth or each other There 's no concurrence nor joynt-service where there 's confusion and contradiction But W. R. proceeds in his observation against the Pen-men viz. 2dly By his readiness to condescend to his Brethren which doubtless in that place he intends such as are upright hearted and mean well for 't is not fit to condescend to others and therein the indifferency before excluded is implyed He 's mistaken again in 's observation for there may be a tender and Christian condescention of the upright hearted among themselves in two respects 1 st In the stronger bearing with and helping the weak bearing the burden of the weak and not laying more upon the weak than what they are able to bear 2 dly In the wisdom of God finding out such accomodation in some lesser matters circumstances not so essential and indispensible so that there may be a general concurrence ease and peace of spirit in such lesser circumstances implying or including that indifferency before which is excluded the greater more weighty and necessary things relating to good Order holiness of Life c. For there may be such an indifferency in some circumstances wherein we may condescend to weak Brethren so far as the spirit of Christ will admit they being such as may not alter the property from being good and lawful nor disturbing to our Christian-society Yet there are other material things and circumstances relating our Christian society good order and holy living that cannot be made Indifferent And we plead not at all for empty Ceremonies in Church order or discipline but such as have a real service and good end in them nor are we for a Church whose ornaments are superstitious but for a Church which is gravely and purely adorned with Righteousness the fruits and services of pure Religion I confess W. R. has writ one remarkable Truth i. e. That 't is not fit to condescend to others viz. That are not upright hearted that do not mean well Very true And we have cause to keep to that Doctrine in reference to such as are turbulent and contentious Troublers of and scandalous to our society and profession See his third Observation on the same subject before as shallow as the rest viz. 3dly By the Pen-man's last cited Lines 't is plain that in his sence things recommended for good Order will have a reception with all upright Hearts Which compared with his readiness to condescend c. as before shews as if his condescention was intended to Brethren that were not upright hearted Here his sight fails him and he 's greatly mistaken again perverting the Pen-mans sense for though I affirm that those things recommended among us by Divine Authority and Evidence either as duty to God or Man or as necessary for good Order and Holiness of Conversation will have reception with all upright Hearts Yet it follows not that the condescention was intended to Brethren that were Not upright hearted or false For first Here 's not a limitation of time when all things necessary as before will have reception with all upright hearts So that there is a time and cause for condescention to them of low degree in regard of their weakness not insincerity Secondly Many upright ones
Christ to execute outward Laws Orders c. in an outward Form of Church-Government Or if it be Popery or like the Pope or inconsistent with the New Covenant so to do as he has insinuated what and where are those Helps and Governments which God in his Wisdom hath afforded in his Churches in subjection to Christ Are no visible Persons instrumental therein by the Power of Christ Or are they Helps and Governments or helpers in Government without visible Persons Were Apostles Prophets Teachers Elders Overseers c. in the Christian Churches no visible Persons or not so indued with Power from Christ to be helpers in the Government See 1 Cor. 12 28. I confess I know not how to reconcile our Opposer to himself in these matters no more than I can find Reason or Proof for his black Charges of Impious Prevaricating Pen-man Oh Impious Prevaricator perverse and hard Heart qualified like a proud Prelate The Pen-man's Iniquity angry Waspish Pen c. Thus he I must needs say he 's far more loud in his Censures than in 's Proofs If our Opposer did impartially consider and compare William Penn's Address to Protestants quoted by him he would see there 's no Lash to the Pen-man as he falsly affirms seeing W. P. grants that the one Shepherd may have many Servants p. 44. And on 2 Cor. 4.1 2. He further saith Here is the utmost Imposition the Apostle makes use of He requires not men to receive him without Evidence c. p. 44. No more do we whom Christ hath called forth in his Service and Ministry in this his day who by the manifestation of Truth commend our selves to every mans Conscience in the sight of God having renounced the hidden things of Dishonesty c. Here 's no cause to complain for want of Evidence or of Imposition without Evidence in plainly discovering or shewing the hidden things of dishonesty Truth in its manifestation both in the Ministry and in the Hearers Conscience is Evidence both against what 's Dishonest and for what 's Honest God would not have Men blind in their Duty their own Negligence and Prejudice is cause of blindness Nor hath this Person convicted us of pleading for or setting up Imposition without Evidence in the Conscience or of Imposing a blind Obedience or putting any Persons thereupon No my very Soul is against that And though W. P. also has writ against Imposition without Conviction the Pen-man seems to have no other sence nor doth it follow that he is either against Church Discipline outward Order or Form of Church-Government but for these in the Church of Christ and Christian Societies he being Principl'd for the true Church having Power from Christ to give Judgment spiritual Censures and Sentences against all dark Spirits that sow Discord and make Division and against all ungodly loose disorderly and scandalous walking and walkers under profession of Truth I 'le adventure to quote William Penn's Address to Protestants to shew his Principle and Sence in these matters In page 214. he saith No Scripture-Church-Discipline is hereby oppugned or weakned Let not the Sentence end in Violence upon the Conscience unconvinced Let whoso will expound or determine so it be according to true Church-Discipline which can be exercised on them only who have willingly joyn'd themselves in that Covenant of Union c. P. 215. Let us observe what sort of Church-Government the Apostle recommends Avoid foolish Questions and Contentions c. A man that is an Heretick after the first and second Admonition reject c. And on Phil. 3.15 He did not say You shall be Fined Pillaged Excommunicated and flung into Prison if ye be not of our mind P. 216. on 2 Tim. 2.22 23 24 25. Here is both Faith and Government Religion and Duty all that becomes us towards God our Brethren our Neighbours yea our Opposers and Enemies And W. P. in his Brief Examination and State of Liberty Spiritual he doth more particularly explain and clear the Point to Friends first in his Epistle saying Christ's Liberty is obtained through his Cross they that would be his Free-men must be his Bonds-men and wear his blessed Yoke His Liberty is from Sin not to Sin to do his will not our own And secondly he speaks farther to it in the said Examination Observe Here W. P. pleads not for a Liberty of Conscience in opposition to true Church-Government Discipline or Order but to those outward Penalties Persecutions and Punishments corporal and pecuniary mentioned and opposed by him and the rest of us which is no Liberty to make Division or Discord in the Church of Christ or Society of Believers § 5. To the Question Whether the Church of Christ hath Power in any cases that are matters of Conscience to give a positive Sentence and Decision which may be obligatory upon Believers To this R. B. answers affirmatively SHE HATH Anarch p. 48. And Whereas R. B. pleaded for the Church of Christ having Power in SOME CASES of Conscience to give a positive Sentence or Decision which may be obligatory upon Believers To this W. R. saith Which clearly shews to us R. B 's meaning to be That in some cases the Consciences of Believers ought to be bound by the positive Sentences of others To which he adds Without leaving any Liberty for a Believer to refuse to submit on the account of not seeing it his duty to submit This meaning and Government saith W. R. over Believers we take to be contrary to the Principle of Truth and Liberty we have in Christ Jesus c. p. 44. Herein he appears both unfair in his citation and mistaken in his construction For 1 st The some cases intended wherein a positive Judgment or Sentence from some Members or Believers is binding upon others are such Cases Wherein only the Truth the Spirit of God doth give the Judgment through some or other in the Church of Christ. The only proper Judge of Controversies in the Church is the Spirit of God and the power of deciding solely lies in it saith R. B. Anarch pag. 66. As also That God hath ordinarily in communicating his Will under his Gospel employed such whom he made use of in gathering his Church and in feeding watching over them though not excluding others Thus R. B's Anarchy of the Ranters p. 67 68. Observe here that he placeth the Judgment or Sentence as binding and to be submitted unto by others professing the same Faith on the Truth the Spirit of God the Will of God 2 dly And therefore the Judgment is not placed upon any Imposition of Government over Believers contrary to the Principle of Truth or Liberty that 's in Christ Jesus for the Judgment of Truth or of the holy Spirit which unites in one Mind and Judgment cannot be contrary to that Principle nor without evidence in the Conscience for conviction to oblige and the Conscience thus obliged is not without true sight sence or knowledge of duty therein because
thy self for the different measures or degrees of Grace do not alter the Property of it and whatever it once manifests to be sin and forbids as such it always forbids and allows none in the practice thereof and whoever are truly convinced by the Grace of God and have their Minds turned to it if they keep in it and walk in its way and teaching they are principled by it and are a Law to themselves therein against those things ways and works which are corrupt or sinful and cannot place a slight Indifferency where the Truth hath made a real Difference for what communion hath Light with Darkness or Christ with Belial or Truth with Error or Sincerity with Hypocrisie or Sobriety and Watchfulness with Ranterism and Looseness Consider how and from whence thou art fallen and Repent To thy subsequent Allegation of John Crook's saying I must tell thee that I look upon thee to have dealt unjustly disingeniously and injuriously by him and very impertinently alledged his words in this case for thy unwarrantable confused loose Proposition for the Observation of Tythes as a civil Right or Rite I doubt not but he is better principled even from the time of his first receiving the Truth than to grant or allow any such liberty to any Christian Brother for the observation or payment of Tythes as thy words import and that thy Allegation of his words in this case is contrary to his very Intention I dare presume and appeal to his Conscience to give Judgment against thee in this case whether the different or contrary actions postures or gestures relating to time constancy or place c. mentioned by him were intended with respect to Tythes the Payment or Non-payment of them I dare say thou hast foully perverted his words and intention in this case for the different actions postures and gestures relating either to time or place may relate to divers things only circumstantial and indifferent as to God and not to things substantial wherein Truth 's Testimony has made a real Difference As I or any other in Truth may be in different postures and places praying to God or waiting upon him in Closet on our Beds in Field High-way either kneeling standing sitting or walking and yet truly led moved and exercised by the holy Spirit and accepted of God which I cannot say in relation to the Payment of Tythes in this Gospel day no more than in Sacrifice and burnt Offerings since Christ hath put an end thereto Those things offered by Cain and Abel as the fruit of the Ground and firstlings of the Flock were things in themselves lawful and allowed in their day and time and were also according to the Law of Moses being Types under the old covenant But this can be no pertinent Instance as alledged by thee Thomas in the case of Tythes to observe or pay them in this Gospel day and as now in Controversie since both Tythes and Offerings were ended by Christ in his Death nor is there any parrallel in the case unless thou couldst prove that the Spirit of Christ doth move Believers in this Gospel day both to the Payment of Tythes and the Non-payment or refusal of them which I dare say thou canst not prove 'T is not to be supposed that what Christ has abolish'd in the old Covenant he will enjoyn or command in the new the Spirit of Christ is not contradictory to it self nor are Gods substantial Commands contrary one to another especially under one and the same dispensation and state § 3. Besides thy abuse and injury against John Crook and Impertinency in this case I cannot but take notice how disâ—ingenuous cover'd and fallacious thou art in the management of thy loose design in reference to the Personal Authorities thou bringest particularly in thy citing part of John Wilkinson and John Story 's Paper concerning Womens Meetings c. in two of thy Pamphlets viz. thy second and third Edition in the 24th pag. of the last thou sayst These foregoing Testimonies are not transcribed at large but abridged for brevities sake but the SENSE AND SVBSTANCE OF THE WHOLE included But Thomas I must tell thee this is a down-right Untruth the Sense and Substance of the Whole of that very Paper of J. W. and J. S. is not included in thy citation although thou hast confessed their Testimony to be weighty Truths and hast cited more passages than that concerning Womens Meetings for thou hast left out these Words of their Testimony viz. As to Tythes we can in truth say 't was never so much as in our Hearts to strengthen any in the Payment thereof nor yet to weaken the Faith of any having a Testimony in our Hearts that Tythes as at this day paid are ANTICHRISTIAN Thus far they How now Thomas Why didst thou leave these Words out of thy Citation Was here nothing of the sense nor substance of their Testimony or wast thou not conscious to thy self that their Position here against the payment of Tythes and thy Proposition aforesaid for the observation of Tythes as a civil Right or Rite c. were inconsistent and contradictory their words are positive against them as Antichristian but thine are partly for them and but doubtfully against them that is If the Spirit of the Lord in the Heart forbid the payment of them or if the different measure of Grace require one Brother not to pay them and allow or be silent at another Brother's paying them Thus Thomas thou appearest in Confusion a BABEL-BUILDER And what is our Language thou reflects upon Is it the plain Language of Thee and Thou to a single Person And what are those Orders thou complainest of and those Customs Forms and Prescriptions Hast not thou appeared like thy Brother John Pennyman in thy empty and fruitless opposition only he is a little more plain in his furious Roaring Letter to G. F. dated the 27th of the 3d Moneth called May 1680. printed among his other Letters to divers Friends he furiously exclaims and roars out against us in these Expressions viz. Away with your long Prayers and long Preachings for they are an abomination away with your Pride and Arrogance sitting as Judges and Lords over your Brethrens Consciences Away with your set Form of Words of THEE and THOV calling it the pure Language O ye Blind and Ignorant how can you escape the Condemnation of the Just and Righteous One who have set up Shadows instead of Substance and Form instead of Power Builders of Babel or Babylonish Builders All your Buildings your Inventions Imaginations and Conceivings about your Forms your proud self-conceited Modes your Impositions your Prescriptions Laws and comely Orders as you in your fallen Wisdom call them must all be thrown down laid waste and become a By-word or Proverb of Reproach to the very Heathen c. Thus far John Pennyman These Words are cited to show how far you Backsliders and Opposers resemble one another in Stile and Language
I take notice of such confused muddled blind dark and mad Stuff as his appears to be To which I Answer First Because neither the Truth nor us as a Religious People and Christian Society may lie under any Dis-repute Blemish or Derision thereof in the Eyes of those that know not nor rightly understand the Christian Doctrine Discipline Church-Government and wholsom Order among us seeing the said J. B. has been for many Years conversant among the People called Quakers and born the Name of a Quaker he saith this twenty Years and more Though he IS NO QVAKER but turn'd an open Enemy to them Secondly Because the said Jeffery Bullock in a great measure runs parallel with and resembles William Rogers and his party in his opposition and gain-saying of that Order and Church-Government that is among us falsly accusing us with Men's Inventions Imitations Traditions laying aside the Spirits Government c. as in his ONE BLOW c. Thirdly Because four Persons of William Rogers's Party of Chippinham in Wiltsshire have given their approbation in a Letter to the said Jeffery Bullock of his Books particularly that called One Blow more against Antichrist's Ministers and have declared that several Friends have good Vnity therewith Which I do not believe And not only so but this in opposition and contempt to others whom they abusively revile in these Words viz. But here are also a company of called Friends which are very much for Foxonians Orders which may be called mens Inventions that do make it their work to Defame and Calumniate all them 〈◊〉 do not conform thereunto Some of which thou and most of which we are in our Hearts perswaded are Servants of the living God amongst which thou hast a share of being villified to be a bad man although to us it s no manner of Invitation for us to give Credit thereunto c Barnadiston and another hath been here their envious Darts fly very swiftly and secretly If thou pleasest to send half a Dozen of thy Books c. With other Aggravations in the said Chippinham Letter shewing not only their approbation and owning of Jeffery Bullock and his Books but also their bitterness of Spirit in villifying and reproaching others although I understand they have been a little ashamed of their approbation of his Books yet not that they have repented of the bitterness of their Spirits nor condemned those villifying Reproaches and bitter Expressions in their said Letter as Foxonians Orders Barnadiston and another their envious Darts fly very swiftly c. What scorn bitterness and rancor do such Expressions bespeak Christ never taught them to give such Names to Friends as Foxonians nor would they take it well to be so dealt by nay they would think much if they should but be called Johannites and their reviling Giles Barnardiston who was a peaceable innocent man and of good Report doth bespeak a great Prejudice and Enmity to have entred their Spirits which they should plainly have condemned their Letter is all perverse but I do not understand any sincere or tender Retractation or real Condemnation thereof given out by them Fourthly Notice is here taken of Jeffery Bullock's Pamphlets to manifest the great Absurdity that opposit dividing Spirit leads into and to warn others against it And why these Persons should so hastily approve of Jeffery Bullock's Books or say that several Friends have good Unity therewith I know no reason being in several things so Corrupt Erronious and Atheistical as they are except it be with respect to the Oppositions therein contained against the Church-Government Order and Methods among us in opposing whereof Jeffery Bullock was these men's Elder Brother Concerning which take a view of some Passages in his said Pamphlet viz. One Blow more in his own Words § 2. Jeffery Bullock saith And you my Brethren also ought to have Preached up God's invisible appearance by his Spirit in our dayes to be the end of mens Inventions Imitations and false Doctrines But instead thereof you have preached up false Doctrines and also set up your own Inventions among the Quakers so called p. 5. Answer His charge of false Doctrines and mens Inventions we utterly deny as slanderous God's invisible and spiritual Appearance and the Testimony thereof still lives among us in as high esteem as ever against false Doctrines and mens Inventions But herein J. B. resembles the rest of the Opposers in the work of the false Accuser of our Brethren Jeffery Bullock My Brethren I fear you are not past the Doctrine of the Church of Rome nor yet of the Priests and Professors of England a false Fear There is as great necessity of Preaching up Salvation to us Gentiles by God's invisible Appearance who is a Spirit and also his Spirit to be the end of all mens Inventions Imitations Traditions c. pag. 6. True but misapplied Therefore I would have G. Fox and the eleven Elders who are preaching up false Doctrines and also setting up their Inventions among the People called Quakers as Rules c. p. 7. Answer Herein he is a false Accuser still like the rest and he 's far louder in his Charges than in 's Proof False Doctrines and Inventions of men both of the Church of Rome and elsewhere we utterly deny J. B. My Brethren your visible Church-Government is altogether Antichristian because that every Member of the Church in God is to be both ruled and governed by the measure of Gods Spirit in them and it is none of George Fox 's nor yet the eleven Elders that is to be a Rule for the Quakers to walk by p. 9. Answ. His charge of Antichristian and Inventions we utterly deny and testifie against as Antichristian and he and the rest of his backsliding Spirit and approvers of him and his Books are never able to make his Charge good However here its plain that he opposes visible Church-Government because of the inward Rule by the measure of God's Spirit wherein he argues Erroniously and contrary to the Apostles Doctrine and Primitive Christians Practice Both the inward Rule and outward Order and due Methods among them all springing from God's Spirit within were not to draw them from a dependance on that Spirit but to shew forth Obedience in Practice and Example to the holy Spirit and pure Religion and therein to help one another for which purpose the Holy Ghost made Overseers and Elders The Elders that rule well are worthy c. He that ruleth with Diligence c. I left thee in Creet to set in order those things that are lacking c. But there were such Apostates then as despised Dominion and spoke Evil of Dignities even of those Instruments and Ministers Helps and Governments whom the Lord ordained and raised up and dignified in his Church and such are these Opposers now in the same Spirit of Opposition and Contempt § 3. J. B. And she i. e. the Church hath no need of your visible Government because she is the
Bride the Lambs Wife and she hath no need of the Light of the Moon to shine in her because the Lord is the Light and the Lambs Spirit is the Light of the Church that is in him But your visible Churches make use of the Light of the Moon that is your Mens Meetings and also your Womens Meetings and the Orders which are set up by them they are to be Rules for your visible Churches to walk by For the Women have power to order the Affairs of your visible Church as well as your Men and this Practice of yours is altogether Antichristian and so also is your Church-Government because it is the Invisible man Christ who orders all things in his Church by his own Spirit Those who are Members of the Church in God among you in time will abhor your Government because it is Antichristian For you Elders do look upon your selves to be Judges and that you have Power to determine things in matter of Conscience c. p. 10 11. Answ. Christ's Government in his Church is both Invisible and Visible he governs by himself and by his Ministers all are not come to a ripe Age in him there are many Children and weak Ones who have need of helps in Government Our faithful Mens Meetings and Womens Meetings were set up by the Power of Christ Jesus and in his Light he governs and rules among them by his own Spirit And faithful grave and sober Women have power to be Teachers of good things and to teach the younger Women Christian-Church-Order and Spiritual Rule were exercised among the Primitive Christians both Men and Women who were Children of New Jerusalem the free Woman the Inhabitants of this City are not without Order or Ministers therein And therefore this Opposers Blow and Charge of altogether Antichristian against our Mens and Womens Meetings is both Silly Proofless Slanderous and altogether Antichristian against Christ's Work and appointment in Male and Female and as the Church-Government among us is Christ's Government both revealed set up and ordained by him none that are and continue true Members of his Church will ever abhor that Government nor reject slight or despise that promised Dominion and Judgment that he hath given to the Saints to determine matters of Difference but only Apostates false Brethren and deceitful Workers and loose Spirits these will be smiting and accusing the Brethren despising Dominion and speaking evil of Dignities yea speaking perverse things to draw Disciples after them crying against outward Rule and Government Forms and Order in the Church whilst they are seeking Mastery Dominion Rule and Government to themselves As for our visible Church and visible Church-Government or Order so much opposed by this Adversary he talks blindly and ignorantly for though the Church be Invisible as to the Spirits of Men who are Members of it and Christ's immediate Rule and Government in the Heart be Invisible yet there is a Visibility both of the true Christian Congregation and good Order and Rule therein proceeding from the Spirit of Christ within The People of God and their good Conversations and Order in Christ are not all shut up in an Invisibility being as Epistles to be read and seen of all and they as a City set upon a Hill c. J. B. You do prefer your selves and the Church in the first place before God who is Light And have set up themselves and their Church as Head instead of God and Christ p. 12. Their setting up themselves and their Government and are laying aside the Spirit 's Government and Authority p. 13. Those Elders who call themselves Ministers look upon themselves and their Image to be equal in Power and Glory both with the Father and the Son Testimony against the Quakers p. 3. Answ. These are notoriously false and slanderous We prefer the living God and his Son Christ Jesus before all and do not lay aside the Spirit 's Government or Authority but in humility reverence and desire ever to live under the same knowing Self abased and Images defaced and rejected by the Light of Christ Jesus § 4. J. B. If any of those called Teachers intend to speak a few words commonly called Prayer then the Women and the Men that are set in the Meeting shall rise up and the Men will uncover their Heads Their Teachers have judged those Quakers not to be real Members of their Church or Body that have not done it i. e. uncovered their Heads And herein the Quakers in general have given more Homage Reverence and Respect to the Words or Prayers of another wherein there was no Life at all than they have done to the Word of Life it self in their own Particulars And this is Anti-christ's work p. 14 15. Answ. His conclusion is false and slanderous herein We Reverence the Word of Life in our living Prayers and not Lifeless Words And why doth he thus judge any Reverent Posture among us in Prayer as that of Peoples Rising up and Mens Uncovering their Heads in our holy Duty of publick Prayer This is like John Perrot's prejudiced Party And how foully Contradictory to himself is he in thus uncharitably judging us for our Reverent Posture or serious Behaviour which is matter of Conscience to us when yet he 'l not allow any Members or Elders among us to judge or determine matters relating to Conscience And cautions us in Christ's words Judge not that ye be not judged p. 12. Oh blind harden'd Man how darest thou thus judge over our Consciences or falsly accuse us with leading People from the Power to worship and reverence the Form more than the Power And then most falsly to add That this is the work of Antichrist among the Quakers p. 17. Here thou hast slandered and shamefully belyed the People of God called Quakers and hast shewn thy self not worthy of so much as the Name of a Quaker Thou hast long been a Reproach unto them J. B. Postscript to his Antichrist's Transformations within viz. If any amongst you pretend to be moved by the Spirit to go to Prayer then both Men and Women they either stand up or else kneel down and the Men all pull off their Hats which own your Form of Prayer and herein you do both Worship Reverence and Adore the Form outwardly and the Words more than you do the Word of Life in your own Particulars Answ. An erronious Conclusion and no natural Consequence either of our standing up kneeling or putting off our Hats in Prayer for all these may be and are innocently and conscientiously performed with Respect and in a holy Reverence to Almighty God whom we breathe and pray unto by his own Spirit Besides both Kneeling and being Uncovered have been practised among God's People and true Christians in Prayer to him so that these Postures are not condemnable in themselves How blind and ignorant therefore is this Gain-sayer in his Opposition Read Psal. 95.6 O come let us Worship and Bow down Let us