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A27045 The successive visibility of the church of which the Protestants are the soundest members I. defended against the opposition of Mr. William Johnson, II. proved by many arguments / by Richard Baxter ; whereunto is added 1. an account of my judgement to Mr. J. how far hereticks are or are not in the church, 2. Mr. Js. explication of the most used terms, with my queries thereupon, and his answer and my reply, 3. an appendix about successive ordination, 4. letters between me and T.S., a papist, with a narrative of the success. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Johnson, William, 1583-1663. 1660 (1660) Wing B1418; ESTC R17445 166,900 438

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by_o the_o instigation_n of_o chrysaphius_n the_o eunuch_n and_o pulcheria_n his_o empress_n and_o so_o intermedle_v too_o far_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o he_o ever_o bear_v that_o respect_n to_o the_o see_v of_o rome_n which_o doubtless_o in_o those_o circumstance_n he_o will_v not_o have_v do_v have_v he_o not_o believe_v it_o a_o obligation_n that_o he_o will_v not_o permit_v the_o eutychian_a council_n at_o ephesus_n to_o be_v assemble_v without_o the_o knowledge_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a bishop_n leo_n the_o first_o and_o so_o write_v to_o he_o to_o have_v his_o presence_n in_o it_o who_o send_v his_o legate_n unto_o they_o and_o though_o both_o leo_n letter_n be_v dissemble_v and_o his_o legate_n affront_v and_o himself_o excommunicate_v by_o wicked_a dioscorus_n patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n and_o precedent_n of_o that_o coventicle_n who_o also_o be_v the_o chief_a upholder_n of_o the_o eutychian_o yet_o theodosius_n repent_v before_o his_o death_n 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the_o eutychian_o shall_v sit_v in_o the_o council_n but_o be_v present_v as_o a_o guilty_a person_n to_o be_v judge_v becuase_n he_o have_v celebrate_v a_o council_n in_o the_o eastern_a church_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n which_o say_v the_o legate_n never_o be_v do_v before_o nor_o can_v be_v do_v lawful_o this_o order_n of_o pope_n leo_n be_v present_o put_v in_o execution_n by_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a council_n and_o dioscorus_n be_v judge_v and_o condemn_v his_o condemnation_n and_o deposition_n be_v pronounce_v by_o the_o pope_n legate_n and_o after_o subscribred_a by_o the_o council_n five_o the_o pope_n legate_n pronounce_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v rome_n caput_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la the_o head_n of_o all_o church_n before_o the_o whole_a council_n and_o none_o contradict_v they_o six_o all_o the_o father_n assemble_v in_o that_o holy_a council_n in_o their_o letter_n to_o pope_n leo_n acknowledge_v themselves_o 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assemble_v the_o bishop_n both_o of_o the_o east_n and_o west_n to_o that_o council_n and_o celestine_n send_v his_o legate_n thither_o with_o order_n not_o to_o examine_v again_o in_o the_o council_n the_o cause_n of_o nestorius_n but_o rather_o to_o put_v celestine_n condemnation_n of_o he_o give_v the_o year_n before_o into_o execution_n st._n cyril_n bishop_n of_o alexandria_n be_v constitute_v by_o celestine_n his_o chief_a legate_n ordinary_a in_o the_o east_n by_o reason_n of_o that_o preeminency_n and_o primacy_n of_o his_o see_v after_o that_o of_o rome_n preside_v in_o the_o council_n yet_o so_o that_o philip_n who_o be_v only_o a_o priest_n and_o no_o bishop_n by_o reason_n that_o he_o be_v send_v legatus_fw-la à_fw-la latere_fw-la from_o celestine_n and_o so_o supply_v his_o place_n as_o he_o be_v chief_a bishop_n of_o the_o church_n subscribe_v the_o first_o even_o before_o st._n cyril_n and_o all_o the_o other_o legate_n and_o patriarch_n in_o the_o six_o action_n of_o this_o holy_a council_n juvenalis_n patriarch_n of_o jerusalem_n have_v understand_v the_o contempt_n which_o john_n patriarch_n of_o antioch_n who_o be_v cite_v before_o the_o council_n show_v of_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o pope_n legate_n there_o assemble_v express_v himself_o against_o he_o in_o these_o word_n quod_fw-la apostolica_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o antiqua_fw-la traditione_n which_o be_v no_o way_n oppose_v by_o the_o father_n there_o present_a antiochena_fw-la sedes_fw-la perpetuo_fw-la à_fw-la romana_fw-la dirigeretur_fw-la judicareturque_fw-la that_o by_o apostolical_a ordination_n and_o ancient_a tradition_n the_o see_v of_o antioch_n be_v perpetual_o direct_v and_o judge_v by_o the_o see_v of_o rome_n which_o word_n not_o only_a evidence_n the_o precedency_n of_o place_n as_o dr._n hammond_n will_v have_v it_o but_o of_o power_n and_o judicature_n in_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n over_o a_o patriarch_n of_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o that_o derive_v from_o the_o 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appetit_fw-la quo_fw-la vocari_fw-la nullus_fw-la praesumpsit_fw-la qui_fw-la veraciter_fw-la sanctus_fw-la fuit_fw-la that_o be_v and_o to_o bind_v up_o all_o in_o the_o girdle_n of_o speech_n the_o saint_n before_o the_o law_n the_o saint_n under_o the_o law_n the_o saint_n under_o grace_n all_o these_o make_n up_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v place_v among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o never_o man_n will_v be_v call_v universal_a let_v your_o holiness_n therefore_o consider_v how_o with_o yourself_o you_o swell_v that_o desire_v to_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n by_o which_o no_o man_n have_v presume_v to_o be_v call_v that_o be_v true_o holy_a well!_o if_o this_o be_v not_o as_o p●●in_v as_o protestant_n speak_v against_o popery_n i_o will_v never_o hope_v to_o understand_v a_o pope_n i_o only_o add_v that_o gregory_n make_v this_o usurpation_n of_o the_o name_n of_o a_o universal_a bishop_n a_o forerunner_n of_o antichrist_n and_o that_o pope_n pelagius_n 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can_v the_o history_n of_o all_o age_n be_v so_o particular_o deliver_v out_o of_o such_o a_o multitude_n of_o book_n but_o in_o a_o multitude_n of_o word_n and_o it_o be_v do_v already_o so_o full_o that_o i_o provoke_v the_o papist_n to_o answer_v the_o catalogue_n and_o historical_a evidence_n give_v in_o if_o they_o can_v if_o you_o ask_v where_o i_o will_v now_o only_o tell_v you_o of_o 1._o blondell_n against_o perron_n d●_n primatu_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la in_o french_a that_o show_v you_o the_o torrent_n of_o antiquity_n against_o the_o papal_a sovereignty_n 2._o molinaeus_n in_o french_a de_fw-fr novitate_fw-la papismi_fw-la against_o the_o same_o perron_n 3._o bishop_n usher_n de_fw-fr statu_fw-la &_o successione_n ecclesiarum_fw-la and_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o jesuit_n challenge_n 4._o dr._n field_n of_o the_o church_n who_o lib._n 5._o answer_v bellarmine_n allegation_n from_o all_o sort_n of_o antiquity_n which_o be_v their_o strength_n i_o pass_v by_o many_o other_o some_o of_o which_o i_o have_v name_v in_o the_o foresay_a 3._o dispute_v of_o the_o safe_a religion_n where_o also_o i_o have_v produce_v more_o of_o this_o evidence_n than_o they_o can_v answer_v at_o least_o much_o more_o than_o you_o have_v return_v i_o in_o your_o last_o paper_n for_o the_o contrary_a to_o which_o i_o desire_v your_o answer_n for_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o write_v one_o thing_n so_o oft_o i_o shall_v only_o instance_n in_o the_o currant_n testimony_n of_o their_o own_o historian_n of_o the_o beginning_n of_o their_o universal_a headship_n say_v regino_n chron._n l._n 1._o an._n 808._o p._n 13._o bonifacius_n obtinuit_fw-la apud_fw-la phocam_fw-la principem_fw-la ut_fw-la sedes_fw-la romana_fw-la caput_fw-la esset_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la quia_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la constantin●p●litana_n primum_fw-la se_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la scribebat_fw-la hermannus_n contractus_fw-la an._n m._n 4550._o p._n 122._o hoc_fw-la tempore_fw-la phocas_n romanam_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesi●rum_fw-la caput_fw-la esse_fw-la constituit_fw-la nam_fw-la constantinop_n primam_fw-la se_fw-la esse_fw-la scripsit_fw-la so_o marianus_n scotus_n in_o phoc._n bonifacius_n p._n 67._o impetravit_fw-la á_o phoca_fw-la caesar_fw-la ut_fw-la sedes_fw-la apostolica_fw-la romana_fw-la caput_fw-la esset_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la quum_fw-la antea_fw-la constantinopolis_n primam_fw-la omnium_fw-la se_fw-la scriberet_fw-la the_o same_o have_v sigebertus_n gemblac_n an._n 607._o p._n 526._o and_o so_o compilat_fw-la chron._n and_o many_o more_o beneventus_fw-la de_fw-la rambaldis_n lib._n augustali_fw-la say_v p._n 8._o in_o phoca_n phocas_n occi●●r_n manritii_fw-la qui_fw-la primus_fw-la constituit_fw-la quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la esset_fw-la caput_fw-la omnium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la cum_fw-la prius_fw-la constantin_n supremum_fw-la se_fw-la nominaret_fw-la mark_v here_o the_o primus_fw-la constituit_fw-la so_o beda_n p._n diaconus_fw-la anastasius_n pomponius_n laetus_n etc._n etc._n and_o of_o the_o novelty_n of_o their_o worship_n say_v platina_n in_o gregor_n 1._o what_o shall_v i_o say_v more_o of_o this_o holy_a man_n who_o whole_a institution_n of_o the_o church_n office_n special_o the_o old_a one_o be_v invent_v and_o approve_v by_o he_o which_o order_n i_o will_v we_o do_v follow_v then_o learned_a man_n will_v
●irst_n sense_n be_v either_o speak_v of_o one_o that_o profess_v the_o rest_n deny_v some_o one_o or_o more_o essential_a article_n of_o the_o faith_n or_o part_n of_o christianity_n or_o one_o that_o only_o deny_v not_o what_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o be_v but_o to_o the_o integrality_n or_o sober_a and_o better-being_a of_o a_o christian._n 3._o heretic_n be_v either_o convict_v and_o condemn_v or_o such_o as_o never_o be_v try_v and_o judge_v 4._o heretic_n condemn_v be_v either_o condemn_v by_o their_o proper_a pastor_n or_o by_o other_o 5._o if_o by_o other_o either_o by_o usurper_n or_o by_o mere_a equal_a neighbour_n consociate_v pastor_n 6._o they_o be_v condemn_v either_o just_o cl●ve_n non_fw-la errante_fw-la or_o unjust_o cleave_v errante_fw-la 7._o they_o be_v either_o judge_v to_o be_v material_o as_o to_o the_o quality_n of_o their_o error_n heretic_n or_o also_o formal_o as_o obstinate_a impenitent_a and_o habitual_o state_v heretic_n upon_o these_o necessary_a distinction_n i_o answer_v your_o question_n in_o these_o proposition_n prop._n 1._o as_o the_o word_n heretic_n signify_v schismatic_n as_o such_o so_o heretic_n with_o draw_v from_o some_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n only_o may_v yet_o be_v part_n of_o the_o who●e_n even_o with_o those_o part_n from_o which_o they_o separate_v if_o they_o say_v you_o be_v no_o part_n and_o therefore_o we_o disow_v you_o and_o will_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o you_o this_o make_v neither_o cease_v to_o be_v part_n and_o while_n both_o own_o the_o head_n and_o the_o body_n as_o such_o they_o have_v a_o union_n in_o tertio_fw-la and_o so_o a_o communion_n in_o the_o principal_a respect_n while_o they_o peevish_o disclaim_v it_o in_o other_o respect_n beside_o that_o the_o local_a or_o particular_a communion_n be_v it_o that_o be_v proper_a to_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o renounce_v it_o only_o separate_v he_o from_o that_o church_n but_o it_o be_v the_o general_a communion_n that_o belong_v to_o we_o as_o member_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a which_o may_v be_v still_o continue_v but_o shall_v any_o renounce_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n as_o such_o and_o separate_z not_o from_o this_o or_o that_o church_n but_o from_o the_o whole_a or_o from_o the_o church_n universal_a as_o such_o this_o man_n will_v be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n prop._n 2._o as_o the_o word_n heretic_n be_v take_v for_o one_o that_o deny_v any_o thing_n essential_a to_o christianity_n so_o a_o heretic_n if_o latent_fw-la be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n deo_fw-la judice_fw-la as_o to_o the_o invisible_a part_n or_o soul_n of_o the_o church_n as_o bellarmine_n call_v it_o as_o a_o latent_fw-la infidel_n be_v but_o he_o may_v be_v if_o latent_fw-la in_o the_o outward_a communion_n or_o as_o bellarmine_n call_v he_o a_o dead_a member_n that_o proper_o be_v none_o as_o the_o straw_n and_o chaff_n be_v in_o the_o cornfield_n prop._n 3._o such_o a_o heretic_n convict_v and_o judge_v by_o the_o pastor_n of_o that_o particular_a church_n of_o which_o he_o be_v a_o subject-member_n be_v according_o to_o be_v avoid_v and_o in_o foro_fw-la illius_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la be_v so_o far_o cast_v out_o of_o that_o church_n as_o the_o sentence_n import_v prop._n 4._o such_o a_o heretic_n if_o he_o be_v a_o pastor_n of_o one_o church_n and_o be_v convict_v and_o condemn_v by_o the_o consociate_n coequal_a pastor_n of_o the_o neighbour_n church_n be_v according_o cast_v out_o from_o communion_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o which_o they_o be_v pastor_n prop._n 5._o so_o far_o as_o any_o christian_n through_o the_o world_n have_v sufficient_a proof_n or_o cognisance_n of_o the_o say_a conviction_n and_o condemnation_n they_o be_v all_o bind_v according_o to_o esteem_v the_o condemn_a heretic_n and_o avoid_v he_o prop_n 6._o if_o heresy_n be_v take_v for_o the_o obstinate_a impenitent_a resist_a or_o reject_v of_o any_o point_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v of_o divine_a revelation_n which_o be_v make_v so_o plain_a to_o the_o person_n that_o nothing_o but_o a_o wicked_a will_n can_v cause_v such_o resistance_n or_o rejection_n such_o person_n be_v just_o convict_v and_o condemn_v as_o aforesaid_a be_v to_o be_v take_v as_o person_n condemn_v for_o obstinacy_n and_o impenitency_n in_o any_o other_o sin_n and_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o far_o as_o a_o man_n condemn_v for_o impenitency_n in_o drunkenness_n or_o fornication_n be_v prop._n 7._o heresy_n take_v in_o this_o soft_a sense_n for_o the_o denial_n of_o a_o truth_n of_o divine_a revelation_n not_o essential_a to_o the_o christian_a religion_n or_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o christian_a exclude_v no_o man_n from_o the_o church_n of_o itself_o unless_o they_o be_v legal_o convict_v of_o wicked_a impenitency_n and_o obstinacy_n in_o defend_v it_o prop._n 8._o a_o sentence_n pass_v in_o alieno_fw-la foro_fw-la by_o a_o usurper_n that_o have_v no_o true_a authority_n thereto_o prove_v no_o man_n a_o heretic_n prop._n 9_o a_o sentence_n pass_v by_o a_o authorize_v pastor_n or_o by_o many_o if_o it_o be_v notorious_o unjust_a cleave_v errante_fw-la prove_v no_o man_n a_o heretic_n or_o out_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n prop._n 10._o a_o sentence_n pass_v by_o one_o church_n or_o many_o consociate_n bind_v none_o to_o take_v the_o condemn_a person_n to_o be_v a_o heretic_n and_o out_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n but_o those_o that_o have_v sufficient_a notice_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o judge_n and_o validity_n of_o the_o evidence_n or_o a_o ground_n of_o violent_a presumption_n as_o it_o be_v call_v that_o the_o sentence_n be_v just_a prop._n 11._o he_o that_o be_v sentence_v a_o heretic_n or_o impenitent_a by_o the_o pastor_n of_o some_o church_n and_o acquit_v by_o the_o equally-authorized_n pastor_n of_o other_o church_n be_v not_o eo_fw-la nomine_fw-la to_o be_v condemn_v or_o acquit_v by_o a_o three_o church_n but_o use_v as_o the_o evidence_n require_v prop._n 12._o there_o be_v a_o actual_a excommunication_n pro_fw-la medelâ_fw-la and_o pro_fw-la tempore_fw-la due_a for_o a_o actual_a wilful_a defence_n of_o error_n or_o for_o other_o wilful_a sin_n which_o stated_o put_v not_o a_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o there_o be_v a_o excommunication_n à_fw-fr statu_fw-la &_o relatione_fw-la which_o be_v due_a for_o state_v habitual_a or_o obstinate_a impenitency_n in_o that_o or_o other_o great_a or_o know_a sin_n have_v thus_o distinct_o tell_v you_o my_o judgement_n how_o far_o heretic_n be_v or_o be_v not_o in_o or_o out_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n i_o add_v in_o order_n to_o the_o application_n 1._o that_o this_o whole_a debate_n be_v nothing_o to_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o you_o and_o we_o it_o be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la in_o your_o own_o account_n but_o a_o dogma_fw-la theologicum_fw-la which_o you_o differ_v about_o among_o yourselves_o bellarmine_n tell_v you_o alphonsus_n a_o castro_n maintain_v that_o heretic_n be_v in_o the_o church_n the_o eccles._n l._n 3._o c._n 4._o and_o he_o himself_o say_v that_o haeretici_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la ut_fw-la oves_fw-la ad_fw-la ovile_a unde_fw-la confugerunt_fw-la ibid._n c._n 4._o so_o that_o they_o be_v oves_fw-la still_o and_o if_o it_o be_v but_o ovile_a particular_a veluti_fw-la romanum_fw-la that_o they_o fly_v from_o and_o not_o the_o universal_a that_o prove_v they_o not_o out_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o bellarmine_n say_v of_o the_o catechumen_n &_o excommunicatis_fw-la that_o they_o be_v de_fw-fr anima_fw-la et_fw-la si_fw-la non_fw-la de_fw-fr corpore_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ib._n c._n 2._o and_o may_v be_v save_v cap._n 6._o and_o the_o anima_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la be_v not_o incorporate_v in_o the_o world_n without_o all_o that_o have_v that_o soul_n be_v of_o that_o church_n which_o christ_n that_o animate_v his_o member_n be_v the_o head_n of_o which_o make_v melchior_n canus_n fatente_fw-la bellarmino_fw-la de_fw-fr eccl._n l._n 3._o c._n 3._o confess_v the_o be_v of_o that_o which_o indeed_o be_v the_o true_a catholic_a church_n say_v of_o the_o unbaptised_a believer_n that_o sunt_fw-la de_fw-fr ecclesia_fw-la quae_fw-la comprehendit_fw-la omnes_fw-la fideles_fw-la ab_fw-la abel_n usque_fw-la ad_fw-la consummationem_fw-la mundi_fw-la 2._o many_o pope_n have_v be_v condemn_v for_o heretic_n even_o by_o general_a council_n as_o not_o only_a henorius_fw-la by_o two_o or_o three_o but_o eugenius_n by_o the_o council_n of_o basil_n when_o yet_o he_o keep_v his_o place_n and_o the_o rest_n come_v in_o as_o his_o successor_n and_o your_o writer_n frequent_o confess_v that_o a_o pope_n may_v be_v a_o heretic_n as_o pope_n adrian_n himself_o affirm_v now_o if_o these_o be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n than_o they_o be_v not_o head_n of_o the_o church_n and_o then_o be_v essential_a part_n of_o your_o church_n it_o follow_v that_o your_o church_n be_v heretical_a
necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o true_a particular_a church_n bellarmine_n grant_v lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr eccles._n c._n 10._o that_o it_o be_v indeed_o to_o we_o uncertain_a that_o our_o pastor_n have_v potestatem_fw-la ordinis_fw-la &_o jurisdictionis_fw-la and_o that_o we_o have_v but_o a_o moral_a certainty_n that_o they_o be_v true_a bishop_n though_o we_o may_v know_v that_o they_o hold_v christ_n place_n and_o that_o we_o owe_v they_o obedience_n and_o that_o to_o know_v that_o they_o be_v our_o pastor_n non_fw-la requiritur_fw-la nec_fw-la fides_fw-la nec_fw-la character_n ordinis_fw-la nec_fw-la legitima_fw-la electio_fw-la sed_fw-la solum_fw-la ut_fw-la habeantur_fw-la pro_fw-la talibus_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o requisite_a that_o they_o have_v faith_n or_o the_o character_n of_o order_n or_o lawful_a election_n but_o only_o that_o they_o be_v take_v for_o such_o by_o the_o church_n and_o if_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o their_o church_n repute_v 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that_o the_o cause_n be_v not_o of_o god_n that_o must_v be_v so_o uphold_v and_o carry_v on_o 2._o and_o i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o cruel_a uncharitable_a censure_n of_o any_o that_o unfeigned_o love_v the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o his_o truth_n that_o it_o be_v the_o great_a motive_n to_o i_o of_o all_o other_o to_o dislike_v your_o profession_n because_o it_o be_v so_o notorious_o against_o christian_a charity_n restrain_v the_o catholic_a church_n to_o yourselves_o and_o out_v and_o condemn_v the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o because_o they_o believe_v not_o in_o the_o pope_n though_o they_o believe_v in_o god_n the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o all_o that_o the_o primitive_a church_n believe_v i_o be_o so_o catholic_a that_o according_a to_o my_o present_a judgement_n i_o can_v