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A28899 A defence of the Scriptures, and the Holy Spirit speaking in them, as the chiefe iudge of controversies of faith ... with a vindication of that honour due to magistrates, ministers, and others ... in a relation of a disputation at Chesterfield in the county of Darby, between some ministers of the Gospell and James Naylor, an erring Quaker ... : with some animadversions upon a lying relation of that disputation, published by Iames Nayler / by Immanuel Bourne ... Bourne, Immanuel, 1590-1672. 1656 (1656) Wing B3852; ESTC R23281 45,977 64

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from the Jayler Acts 16. He came trembling and fell downe before Paul and Silas and said Sirs or Lords or masters what must I do to be saved therefore it is lawfull for the ministers of Christ now to be called sirs or masters and to receive such titles or respects which are due to their ministeriall place and honourable calling The Argument was not then so fully and largely given but to this effect Mr Bourn was pressing to prove this truth But James Nayler like the deafe Adder turned away his eare and would not answer and according to his practice when he was not able to answer an argument Mr Bourn and Mr Billingsley stood in the reading seat and James Nayler was in a seat neer Mr Major a good distance from the reading seate looked aside and spake at randome to the people in a bragging vapouring manner what he could doe and while we were pressing him to answer we did see Mr Major and some other nere him going forth of their seats and Nayler and others following and so the Disputation ended abruptly But if any understanding Christian who is not byassed by misinformation of his judgement consider these Arguments they are sufficient to prove that honourable respect that is due to the ministers of Christ not that Christs ministers should ambitiously seeke after honours or honourable titles for that Christ forbids and that Gods faithfull Embassadours affect not endeavour not But yet when false teachers seeke to disgrace and prophane persons with their wicked plots and designes to dishonour us and our honourable ministeriall calling we are bound in conscience with St Paul to magnifie our office and to vindicate our selves from such wicked practises of erring Quakers and of prophane ungodly malicious men who neglect and contemne the Ordinances of Jesus Christ Thus as neer as I can remember out of my notes taken and what I could learn of others I have given a just and true relation of that Dispute at Chesterfield if it were worthy of that name being a wrangling by that man who had not artificiallie scarce naturall order of reasoning but like a boisterous railing fellow who by loud out-cries little or nothing to the purpose sought to deceive the people A witty honest Gentleman who was present at the Dispute asked his name and one told him his name was James Nayler to whom as I was informed he replyed certainly his name should no more be called James Nayler but James Rayler for said he I never heard a more bawling railing reviling fellow talke or words to that purpose The Lord give him repentance if it be his will I have said sufficient to the Question to prove the lawfulnesse of giving honour to Christs Ministers That it is lawfull to give hanour Now I shall only add a few Arguments to prove the lawfulnesse yea duty of giving outward honour as well as inward honour to Magistrates and others according to their place and dignity whatsoever these Quakers gatrulate to the contrary It is lawfull to give the title of Lord and Lady and the like and to declare our due respect by outward testimonies of the honour and due regard we doe owe unto them as to superiours Iames Nuyler It is true James Nayler being examined upon an indictment of blasphemy against him at the Sessions at Appleby in January 1652. See the briefe reply to some part of a scurrilous and lying pamphlet called Sauls errand to Damascus printed 1653. kept on his hat before the Bench and when Justice Pearson one of the Justices commanded to put off their hats James Nayler answered I doe it not in contempt of authority And he being asked againe by Colonell Briggs If hee were in the Parliament House wouldest thou keep it on To whom James answered if God should keep me in the same mind I am now in I should Then Colonell Briggs replied I knew thou wouldest contemne authority The same hath been the practice of divers other of the seduced seducing Quakers before the honourable Justices of the Peace in severall Countries And Naylers pretence of giving honour inwardly when they refuse to give any outward civill respect what is it but pharisaicall dissimulation instead of sincere humility and obedience or duty to those whom the Lord hath set over us in power and authority for his glory and the good of his people For shall we not judge the tree by its fruits But let me evidence duty a little in this respect Argument 1 1. Those who by Gods Ordinance are set in place above others in Gods stead for the peoples good they are to have honour given to them above others to be declared outwardly as well as setled inwardly in the hearts of men But Magistrates supreme and inferiour Judges and Justices and such as are of higher or lower place and power they are by Gods Ordinance set in place above others in Gods stead for the peoples good Therefore they are to have honor given unto them above others to be declared outwardly as well as setled inwardly in the hearts of men The major or first proposition is most agreeable to reason and order even in nature it selfe The herbes and grasse of the field which are inferiour and have but a vegetive life they doe service and give a kind of obedience in Gods Ordinance for the nourishment and service of the beasts and cattell which are superiour in nature and have besides a vegetive or growing life a life of sence also which is more excellent Againe these brute creatures which have only the vegetive and sensitive life they are inferiour unto and doe service and yield obedience unto man which is a more noble creature superiour to the other as having not only a vegetive and sensitive but also a rationall life and more excelling inferiour creatures and man hath yet the great God and Creator of heaven and earth above him to whom he doth owe honour and service both in soule and body Rom. 12.1 Thus in order of nature and thus in order of government the Comm-wealths and governments of Nations there is and ought to be order of superiour and inferiour 1 Cor. 14.33 for as in the Churches of the Saints so in Common-wealths God is not the Author of Confusion but of peace and good order in all And so an orderly respect is to be had to every superiour according to their place and power The Apostle Paul giveth evidence to this at full Rom. 13.1 c. Let every soule be subject unto the higher powers for there is no power but of God and the powers that be ordained of God they are Gods Ordinance and hee is the Minister of God to thee for good For this cause pay you tribute also for they are Gods ministers attending continually upon this very thing And hence he concludes render therefore to all their dues tribute to whom tribute custome to whom custome feare to whom feare honour to whom honour Thus honour is a