for the Supremacie But it foloweth And so consequently gaue the same povver vnto al Pastours and Doctours Be it so But what is consequently How M. Iewel taketh it I can not tel but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greke which phrase S. Basile vseth signifieth the Pastours that folow in order and row after S. Peter Now Order requireth that although al be Pastoures yet they may not take vpon them and rule coÌ„fusely al in a clampe togeather but euery man in his place degree according vnto y â— proportion of his Flocke and Charge And therfore this hitherto proueth rather that y â— Pope of Rome is the Chief after Christ and that al other what so euer they be go not cheeke by cheeke by him as worthy or Supreme as he but euery man in his order and degree after him But this that foloweth is perchaunce altogeather for M. Iewel what is that Marie A token vvhereof is this that al Pastours dooe equally both binde and loose as vvel as he True it is M. Iewel the most simple in al the world doth binde and loose like as the Pope him selfe But this is true in such thinges as are permitted vnto his Iurisdiction For in some kind of Faultes the partie must be referred vnto the Iudgement of the Bishoppe â–ª And in cases of Heresie Breaking of Uowes and Robbing of Churches the Bishop hath not in his hands to absolue the offender but the whole must be reserued vnto the Pope And therefore although in such faultes as euery Prior or Priest may forgeue or retaine the Iurisdiction which he excerciseth be as effectual as if S. Peter himself had absolued or bound the Parties yet this is nothing against the special Priuilegies aboue al others which are graunted vnto the See of Rome As in example of fiue hundred Capitaines in a Field Or fiue hundred Lordes in a Countrie euery one commaundeth the Souldier of his band or Tenant of his land and yet this is not preindicial vnto the worthines excellencie of the General Capitaines and chiefe Lordes The Angels doe al of them waite and attende vpon God and at the later Day al the Electe shal haue euery one his penie and reward yet the Cherubins are of higher Authoritie than the inferiour Angels and the Apostles shal be in greater Glorie than Confessours What shal we say of Christ him selfe As my Father saith he sent me so end I you And vvhen he had said this he breathed vpon them and saith vnto them Take ye the holy Ghost VVhose sinnes you shal forgeaue them they are forgeuen them and vvhose sinnes ye do reteine they be reteined Here loe you may see that he hath made the Apostles equal with hym How then wil you conclude that Christ is not supreme in his Church and that he hath not the authoritie of binding and loosing in a more high degree than any of his Apostles Such yet is your diuinitie M. Iewel that because al Pastours do equally bind loose therefore the Pope hath no special Priuilege aboue other But you lacked the vnderstanding that al do equally bind loose in such cases and Persons as are subiected vnto them And that because euery Bishop can not exercise the power of his Orders when and where it pleaseth him therefore it is euident that all are not equal but that the Superiours may restraine the Iurisdiction of the Inferiours which is inough to proue a Supremacie Thus hath M. Iewel brought foure seueral Auncient Fathers al in a cumpanie togeather to proue that the B. of Rome hath no speciall Priuilege aboue others of binding and loosing and there is not one of them al which proueth that CoÌ„clusion For S. Cyprian is plaine for one head notwithstanding the equalitie of the Apostles in honour and power Origen and S. Cyril speake not literally but mystically And S. Basile last of all telleth such a Trueth as euery Catholike wil confesse and is nothing contrarie to the doctrine of the Supremacie excepte there be so vnsensible an heretike that wil think the lowest Minister in the congregation to be as high in Authoritie as the greatest Superintendent or general because he preacheth and baptiseth and ministreth the Lordes Supper and burneth if neede be in his opinion in lyke sorte as the Chiefest Superintendentes themselues doe And this vanitie and falsehood of M. Iewels when he allegeth Auncient Fathers wordes without their Sense is so common that I wil be bounde to make a whole boke of his So saith S. Cyprian and Therefore S. Hierome saieth and other such Idle Illations if either it were not inough to note only what he is Or if my wil and leisure serued me so much as to be occupied in so tediouse A mater But now let vs goe forwarde with the Doctours and shew how shamefully he hath abused them Our Sauiour saith D. Harding out of S. Augustine gaue not commauÌ„dement in vvhat Order the SacrameÌ„t should be receiued meaning to reserue that mater vnto the Apostles by vvhom he vvould direct and dispose his Church Ergo the obseruation of number of CommunicaÌ„ts of Place of Tyme of Order Maner and Circumstance in Receiuing dependeth of the Churches ordinaunce and not of Christes Institution S. Augstine abused S. Augustine speaketh not one worde of any number He speaketh of a power left with the Apostles to apoint in what order the Sacrament should be Receaued but the Order and Manner of doing a thing extendeth it self to al Circumstances ergo to number also And therefore it is no wrong dealing to inferre A particular vpon the graunt of the proper vniuersal thereof Againe whereas the blessed Apostle after certaine talke had about the Sacrament concluded saying Caetera cum venero ordinabo As for the rest vvhen I come my selfe I vvil set in Order S. Augustine inferreth Vnde datur intelligiâ—quia multuÌ„ er at vt in epistola totuÌ„ illum agendi ordineÌ„ insinuaret quem vniuersa per orbâ— seruat ecclesia ab ipso ordinatum esse quod nulla moruÌ„ diuersitate variatur Wherof it is geauen vs to vnderstand that it vvas ordeined of the Apostle that vvhich is not varied by any diuersity of maner fashion because it vvas much for him to shevv in an epistle al that order of Celebrating and Ministring the Communion vvhich the vvhole Church through out all the vvorld doth obserue As who should say If it had not ben that the Apostle had not place inough in his Epistle to the Corinthians to declare his mind at ful In what order and with what Ceremonies and Circumstancies he would haue the celebrating of y â— mysteries to procede he would haue left it in plaine writing how al thinges should be don but because that was to much for an epistle to receaue And because the order which he would haue obserued was not so quickly appointed as to Reade A â–ª Chapiter or two of the Bible and to tell the storie
he He turneth his forme of speach and vnderstanding wel inough the Pride and Malice of our corrupte nature he maketh his Oratours and Interpretours to bring the selfsame wordes which in dede haue sâ—rength of Christ only out of y â— mouthes of spiritual PersoÌ„s Bishops or Priests And deuiseth that they shal vtter them in their owne persons as in exaÌ„ple 〈◊〉 maketh the Pope to say Whose synnes I forgâ—â—e they be forgeueÌ„ Whose synnes I retâ—ine thei be reteined Which because it is Proudly Arrogantly spoken it is easy to make him contemned which taketh sâ— câ—eeding much vpoÌ„ him and to bring the Office Authority it self into disecredite bâ—cause it agreeth not with the nature iâ—firmitie of the persons to speak so bigly and to performe it accordingly Concerning then now y â— Glose of which M. Iewel speaketh if in dede it be there found that Al Power is geuen to the Pope as wel in heauen as in Earth yet to make the Pope speake it in his own person Al power is geuen to me as wel in HeaueÌ„ as in Earth it is spirefully wickedly turned But let vs see the Glose it sâ—lfe whether it hath that Sence which M. Iewel gathereth thereof For touching y â— forme of wordâ— it is manifest that they are not to be found there as spoken in the firste person The question whiche the Glose moueth is this Whether the Spirituall povver ought to Rule the Temâ—orall And it seemeth saieth the Glose that no wherevpon he bringeth in certaine Argâ—â—entes for the Temporall against the Spiritual Iurâ—sâ—iction but afterwardes be dissolueth euery doubt obiection laieng this one Argument for a ioundation Christ comâ—â—tted his â—â—arshipe 〈◊〉 the bigâ—est Bishope But all povver vvas geauen to Christe in Heauen and in Earth Mat. 28. Ergo the highest Bishop vvhich is his 〈…〉 this â—ovver And what is the thing nowe that M. Iewel in this place doth misâ—yke Or what Sense gathereth his vnderstanding hereof Mâ—ry syr of this place he concludeth the Poâ—e to saie Al power is geauen to me as well in Heauen as in Earth But the Glsse M. Iewel concludeth not so For acâ—â—â—ding to the mater whiche is vroponed the 〈◊〉 of thâ— Conclusion must be ordered Of the Spiritual and Temporal 〈◊〉 here in earth the Glos◠〈◊〉 It speaketh also of the gouernement as it parteineth to one that supplieth the place of Christ on Earth and not as it is enlarged to heauen That visible man shouâ—d be left after the departâ—re and astension of God and man to gouerne that visible Church which consiâ—teth of men It is so Comfortable and Reasonable that Faith Order and Peace without it could not wel haue ben kept But to make any man liuing yet on earth A Doer and Officer concerning the Triâ—â—phant Church in heaueÌ„ where Christ himself is in his person so present that he vseth not a Uicare that is absurde and vnlikely and with this M. Iewel chargeth the Pope that he should Open his mowthe awyde and saie al power is geauen to me as well in Heauen as in Earth Which Conclusion is not vttered nor intended in the Glose No saie you doth not the Glose vpâ—on this text of the Scripture spoken of Christ al power is geauen to me in Heauen and in Earth Doth it not infer that the â—igh Priest his Uicare on earth hath the 〈◊〉 it speaketh not of the same but of 〈◊〉 power And this power is meant not generally of all power that Christ hath but of that whiche is proponed in the question that is the Spiritual Temporal power here in Earth As if he should more plainely haue concluded Al povver both in Heauen and Earth is geauen to Christ Ergo that in Earth Againe the highheste Bishope hath Christes place and Rome in Earth Ergo he hath al povver in Earth Ergo the Spirituall povver ought to Rule the Temâ—oral The weake brother in Faith and witte maie replie If the Pope haue as much power on Earth as Christ It wil folow that Christs power in Earth being infinite the Pope also maie doe what he wil as in example Remoue hils go dryshod ouer great riuers turn water into wine strike fiue thousand men downe with a word as our Sauiour did in the Garden No my frind the Generalitie of a propoâ—ision is to be measured by the mater which is in question And because the question moued in this place by y â— Glose is not of working miracles or 〈◊〉 it be ouer which y â— almightines of oâ—r Sauiour hath absolute power in Earth but of the Authority 〈◊〉 â–ª and iâ—risdiâ—tion which the Spiritual rulers should haue aboue the Temporall withâ—n the Church of Christ that is yet militant therfore the supplieing of Christâ—â— place in earth and the Receiuing of the same power which he had must be extended no further than to the ruling and Gouerning of men here beneth in the world or though out of the world yet in their waie vnto heauen And therefore M. Iewel hath shamefully abused this glose as though it made the Pope a God and that without aâ—â—e Limitation or 〈◊〉 or interpictation be concluded to haue al power as wel in heauen as in Earth euen as Christ him 〈◊〉 hath An other glose M. Iewel hath peeked ent from the decree 24. 〈◊〉 â—aieing 〈…〉 But â–ª do not you M. Iewel most shamfâ—lly erre in 〈◊〉 y â— glose Let vs see for what 〈◊〉 it was alleged of you 〈…〉 better consider whether it 〈◊〉 that for which you alleged it 〈…〉 greably to the catholike saith y â— Although the See of Rome hath failed sometimes in charity yet it neuer failed in Faith Against this conclusion M. Iewel commeth in with these wordes Certainely the very glose vpon the Deeretals putteth this mater vtterly out of doubt these be the words CertuÌ„ est quod Papa errare potest It is certaine that the Popâ— maie erre As if he should say to proâ—e by y â— text it self of y â— decretale y â— the church of Rome may erre in Faith it is so easie a mater Iâ—â—de not worke y â— way But the very glose vpoÌ„ the decrâ—tals which alwaies is fauorable to y â— see of Rome which by al meanes possible mainteineth y â— Popes kingdom which is not of y â— making of any auncient or lerned doctor but of some old muÌ„simns papist baâ—barous master yet this very glose is against y ◠〈◊〉 of y â— see if Rome y â— it can not eâ—e in faith But is this tru Yes certeÌ„ly quod M. Ieâ—â— putteth this mater out of dout y â— vtterli Certainely if the glose hath so taken the mater it is a great argumeÌ„r y â— much more y â— text is against vs. or if the text be 〈◊〉 the Catholikes It is a simple argument of M. Iewels to bring a Glose against the Text and so to speake
vnto the Apostles and others that succeded them in the Churches 〈…〉 And the Correction due and ready for them whiche without license obteined meddle in an other mans Office doe plainely proue the contrarie And therefore vndoubtedly if you wil haue this place vnderstanded particularly of euery Bishope and saie that God hath geauen eche of them ful power the practise not only of al Christendome but of your owne congregation wil confute you In which there is difference betwen the Superintendent of Sarum and of Canterburie But if you wil refer the gift of ful power vnto some singular successours of the Apostles then is this text nothing preiudicial to the Supremacie of the Bishope of Rome in whom alone when ful power resteth the saying of S. Cyril may be verified For what they haue it is true to say that the Apostles successours haue it And this alone were inough to answer But now I say further That S. Cyril hath not as you report For in repeting shortly the Spiritual sense which was to be gathered out of those two actes of Christ the one when he passed ouer the See of Tyberias signifying therby the forsaking of the Iewes and wente vp againe into an hil with his disciples The other when he cast vp his eyes and beholding a number of people comming toward him fedde them to the ful with fiue loaues and two fishes of this miraculous fact of our Sauiour he saith Quare vetera noua scripturae mandata fidelibus per Apostolos apposita intelligebamus cuius myslerij plenaÌ„ Apostoli eorum in Ecclesijs successores gratiam possidebunt By which thing that is by Christes feeding of fiue thousand with fiue loaâ—es and two fisshes vve vnderstand the Olde and Nevy Commaundementes of the Scripture to be sette by the Apostles before the faithful The full grace of vvhich ministerie both the Apostles and their successours in the Churches shal possesse Conferre now Indifferent Reader these thinges togeather M. Iewel telleth thee as out of S. Cyril of a ful power S. Cyril speaketh of no more than a ful grace M. Iewel by this ful power would haue thee thinke that in the authoritie of binding and loosing no Bishop is higher then an other S. Cyril by his ful grace comprehendeth the grace of preaching only instructing of other The ful grace which S. Cyril nameth is so coÌ„fessed to be in y â— Apostles their successours y â— yet he signifieth not whether al should haue it equally or som be therin before their fellowes or whether the heades of the Church should apoint the Preachers which is nothing coÌ„trary to a Supremacie or euery man vse his gift before he be licenced which were altogether one of order M. Iew. concludeth of that ful povver which he maketh S. Cyril to speake of not only y â— such a povver was in the Apostles is in their Successors but also that it is ful in euery one of their successours that the B. of Rome hath not y â— Supremacie for which his handeling of y â— auÌ„cient Fathers if he may yet escape y â— note of a Falsifier then go not the procedings forward by indifferencie but with hatred of the contrary side with euident iniurie And now foloweth immediatly the abusing of an other Doctor S. Basil abused And S. Basil saith Christ appointed Peter to be Pastour of his Church after him And consequently gaue the same power vnto al Pastours and Doctours A tokeÌ„ wherof is this that al Pastours do equally binde and loose as wel as he First let vs see vpon what occasion to what end these words are spoken S â–ª Basiles purpose in y â— who le Chapiter out of which those words are takeÌ„ was to exhort vnto obedieÌ„ce such as liued in solitarines excercise of perfectiâ— HervpoÌ„ he bringeth furth y â— authoritie of Scripture saying Let euery man be subiect vnto the higher povvers Which Text by his collection proueth more strongly that Religious men should obey their Priors than Teâ—poral men the Princes of the world Agaiâ—e he alleageth Obey your Prepositours and be ye subiect vnto them After this he commeth to the Examples of Abraham in the Olde Testament and the Apostles in the New and 〈…〉 hanging vpon Crosses and diuerse other thinges But how For their owne sakes onely No but Vt per eos formaÌ„ relinqueret â—andâ— sequuturae posteritati that by them he might leaue the same Example and Paterne to the Posteritie that should folovv What Paterne Mary the Paterne of Obedience that as the Apostles folowed Christ through al Contradictions of the world and Aduersities and Deathes so should Religious men obey their Fathers and Superiours in al things Then doth it folow Atque hoc à Christo ipso docemur dum Petrum Ecclesiae suae pastorem post se constituit And this vve be taught of Christ him selfe vvhen he appointed Peter to be the Pastor of his Church after him What This be we taught Whether that one Apostle is as good as an other or one Bishope as high as an other or the Curate of as great Authoritie as the Person or the Person of as large a Iurisdiction as the Bishope No. But that we should be obedient vnto our Pastours For thus it foloweth in S. Basile Quem admodum igitur c. Therefore lyke as Sheepe obey the Sheepeherd and go vvhat soeuer vvay he vvil so they that excercise them selues in godlines must obey their Rulers and nothing at al serch their commaundementes curiously vvhen they haue no sinne in them but coÌ„traryvvise to accomplish them vvith most readinesse of minde and diligence As if he should shortly haue said Christ appointed Peter and other after him in order to be Sheepherds Ergo Christe appointed such as were vnder their Charge to be as Sheepe But Sheepe obey their Shepherd without making any inquisition vpon his leading and guiding of them Ergo we be taught obedience by Christ him selfe in this also that he made Peter y â— Pastour of the Church after him To this ende by these meanes S. Basile bringeth his discourse in the foresaid Chapiter which I haue the more at large opened vnto thee that thou maist see Indifferent Reader how litle he intended to speake against the Popes supremacie or for the equalitie of Priestes of Bishopes that one of them should be as high as an other What moued then M. Iewel to vse S. Basil in this place Or what words are they here by which he coÌ„â—irmeth his AssertioÌ„ His Assertion is y â— the old Catholik Fathers could neuer vnderstande any such special Priuilege of binding and loosing as M. Hardinges Athanasius attributeth to the See of Rome But how proueth he this Christ saith he out of S. Basil appointed Peter to be Pastor of his church after him Note then that Christ is First and S. Peter Next And this maketh directly
Mankind from the Apostolike See by Successions of Bishopes hath obteined the toppe or highest degree of Autoritie To vvhich Church if vve vvil not geue and graâ—t the Primacie soothly it is a pointe either of most high vvickednesâ—e or of headlong arrogance To this place M. Iewel answereth nothing I beleue because he had nothing For his diligence and Order in Answering three other places of S. Augustine which went Immediatly before this in his 14. Diuision of the fourth Article doâ— proue that he lacked not Occasion to Answere this also which was so largely alleged by D. Harding and folowed so Immediatly in the 14. Diuision but that he knew not wel what to say vnto it After this maner it were easie to finde moe places and them of no small weight which should declare M. Iewel for al his fayre shewe of an Absolute Replie not to haue touched yet many principall Reasons and Testimonies of D. Hardings But I haue already proued my purpose sufficiently Of a new deuised and childish Obiection solemly vsed of late against the Catholikes by which M. Iewel also is touched ANd nowe to make an ende what may any Indifferent Reader aske for more to perswade him in this one point and Conclusion that he ought to BEVVARE OF M. â—EVVEL There cannot be a greater Bragger than he that prouoketh al the men aliue Nor a greater Shifter than he that wil 〈◊〉 no question to â—and in the state in which he did first put it Nor a greater Wrangler than he that 〈◊〉 the meaning of his 〈◊〉 almost in euery ArgumeÌ„t Nor a greater Corruptour of Witnesses than he that wil suffer nor Texte nor Glose nor Canon nor Ciuil Lawe nor Old nor Late Writer to continue in his right forme of Verdieâ— Nor a Writer more perilous than M. Iewel But in one thing I trâ—we he is 〈◊〉 And what is that Mary he In Scholes it is a vaine glory and pride 〈◊〉 y â— boyes to contemne that which is common to affect singular and 〈◊〉 things to refuse that which an other 〈◊〉 and to fal out with their felowes that 〈◊〉 out of their Notebokes any of their treasures Which Affection allthough they be not beaten for because of the first beginnings which are nourished with hope of praise yet the â—umour is 〈◊〉 and coâ—rupt which breedeth such an ytch of Folie or canker of Enuie in them In Courtes also it is a sadde Pride and glory to haue such a Cutte of Appataile or such a Tricke or two aboute it as none â—ls vseth which after it begyn to be 〈◊〉 of other the Authors are straite 〈◊〉 wery of it and turne them 〈◊〉 to other fashâ—ons Concerning whiche maters there be greate Rules and Ohseruations As that a man must not 〈◊〉 one Coate aboue a certayen 〈◊〉 Also that he weare his owne not an other mans Coate And generally that in all his manners he may seeme to stand by buâ—selfe alone and to depend of no other In so much that it is a greate griefe vnto some to heare it sâ—yed vnto them I knowe where you had this or wher you bought that As 〈…〉 were lost beacause they can not be singular Now if this Contention and Folie shall be alowed also in matters of 〈…〉 Let him vnderstand brieflie howe M. Iewel also may be pressed with it S. Cyprian Lib. 2 Epist. 3 For the Institution of Christe Alleged in the Defense of the Trueth Fol. 11. Used by M. Iewel Pag. 106. Tertulliams place aduersus â—raxeam That is true that was first ordeined Alleged in the Defense of the Trueth Fol. 11 Yn the Apologie of England Used by M. Iewel Pa. 258 313. The Sorie of 〈◊〉 Declared by Fox Pag. 9 Used by M. Iew. Pag. 236 The GLose Domine cur ità facis Syr why do ye so Alleaged by M. Nowel Fol. 26 Used by M. Iewel Pag. 258. 313. That the Booke called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not S. Basiles Labored by the Magdeburgenses Cent. 4. Cap. 10 Col. 946 Used by M. Iewel Pag. 86 That S. Augustine whome S. Gregorie sent into England was of no Apostolike Spirite c. Set furth by Bale Lib. 2 de actis Ro. Pomisicum Pag. 51. 52. 53. Alleged by the Magdeburgenses Cent. 6.ca.10.col.748 Used by M. Iew. pag. 185 The discourse vpon the first bringers in of the Faith into England Made by the Magdeburnenses Cent 1 lib. 2cap.3.col.23 Cent. 2.cap.2.col.6 8 cent.3.cap.2.col.4 Used by M. Iewel Pag. 190. The argumeÌ„tes against the 〈◊〉 Epistles ab Autoritate negatiuè of S. Hierom. Bennadius Damusus Made of the Magdeb Cet 2 ca. 7 col 151 And of the sayings of Clemens Cent. 2.ca.7.col.185 Antherus Cent. 3.ca.7.col.189 Marcellin CeÌ„t. 4.ca.7.col.576 Marcellus Cent. ibideÌ„.col.578 Zepherin CeÌ„t. 3.ca.7.col.179 Meltiades CeÌ„t. 4.ca.7.co 577 Argumentes against Anacletus Epistles gathered 1 Of the Story of Tymes 1 Alleged by the Magdebur Cent. 1 li. 2.c.10.co.637 2 Of the building of S. Peters Church 2 Centur. 2 cap. 7 col 140. 3 Of the alleging of old Fathers Decrees 3 Centur. 2 cap 7. col 144. 4 Of y e Phrases of the Epistles 4 Cent. 2 c. 7 col 143 5 Of the Interlacing of the Scriptures Centur. 2 cap. 7 col 143 6 Of the needelesse alleging of them 6 Cent. 2 c. 7 co 140 141. 142. 148. Used by M. Iewel not one argumeÌ„t left out Pag. 67. 223. 224. This for an Example is inough For if a man were so disposed to spend long time in examining of this one Point Whether M Iesels great ful stuffed Reply cam iÌ„mediatli froÌ„ his own singular InueÌ„tion diligeÌ„ce or no there is no dout but he hath either none at al or very few Argumentes Authorities which are not to be sonnde also in other that haue writen before him Especially if it shal be rightly considered how much Peter Martyr Caluine and the Magdeburgenses onely to lette other sâ—rapers passe haue writen against y â— Catholik Church euen vpoÌ„ these very â—â—estions which M. Iewel hath proponed Yet I thinke not that al that he hath gathered hath com out of them although it may be founde in them also for why may not an Englishe Protestaut be as sone taken vp to serue the Diuel in setting surth of Heresies and to Receiue secrete Intelligence from him what he shal study vppon and marke especially as any Heretique of beyond the Seas And if it were gathered out of them I would not Obiect it vnto him as one of the Deadly sinnes for which men should BEVVARE of him For emong friends al thinges are common and no man that wise is and honest writeth to make him selfe a name in the world but to help the common cause for which him selfe with other standeth But this much onely I note that such as seke very egrely and impotently to hurt the Catholikes estimation by it in telling them that they are Borowers may vnderstand that the same Obiection if it be any thing worth may
within these last fiftene hundred yeares and for aâ—vantage to make the practise thereof a Definitiue sentence This is exceding presuÌ„ptuous and exceding Iniurious and this is that which I shal now laie to M. Iewels Charge ¶ Of M. Iewels exact accompting vpon the vj. C. yeres next after Christ. YOu Appeale M. Iewel most instantly to the Witnesses of the next six hundred yeres after Christ by which you geaue vs to vnderstand that either your giltie CoÌ„science feareth to be tried by God and the Countrie either that your simple vnderstanding conceiueth to helpe your cause by remoâ—ing of it Of which two there is nere a good neither Conscience already condemning you by the verdite of ix C. yeres together Neither lacke of Wit and Consideration mouing you of xv vniforme Witnesses ix put aside to Imagine that the lesser number of vj. only remaining could be so vsed as that they should appeere either contrary to the â—ine Or of more credite and worthinesse then the nine Both which thinges either that the Church of Christe should be contrary to it selfe or in some one part of her Age more worthy of credite than in some other are plainly and vtterly impossible bothe by Faith and by Reason For like as we are assured by right Faith that there is but One God One Iesus Christ God and man One Spirite diuiding vnto eche as he vvill One Bodie One Doue One Louier One Bevvtiful and One Catholik Church so is it impossible by Naturall Reason that of Unitie A Diuision might be made And that one Part might be found contrary to the other or One Part worthier than the other where there is no Partes making at all and therefore no Parts taking at al to cause any Discord Is Christ sayeth the Apostle diuided Is it yea and naâ—e vvith him Yea doth not he himself say Euery kingdom diuided vvith in it seâ—fe shall be left vvaste and desolate And doe not both Testamentes new and old plainely teache that his kingdome is euerlasting How then should his Church be Contrary vnto it self and thereby cumming to Diuision ende afterwardes in Dissolution Againe The Spiritie of Truthe was promised vnto her which should teach her all Truthe and tary also vvith her for euer There be also prouided for her meete Gouernours and Officers to continue with her and serue her to the perfiting of the holy vntill all doe meete togeather in Vnitie of Faith and knovvledge of the Sonne of God so that because of the Authoritie of the Chiefe Master whome it is Impossible to lie And the continuall succession of Ushers vnder him whome he maketh to teach as he Inspireth the Lessons which at this day are readen in the Church ought to be in deede of as greate Credite emong vs as any of the Primitiue Churches lessons Except perchaunce the Sprite be so blinde or blasphemous in any person as to deny his Almightinesse in making of such as dwel in his house of One minde and Accorde Of whose Promise Prouision and Charitie towardes hys church we haue so infallible testimonies Therefore as the Scriptures perswade our vnderstanding to beleue that the Church is One That it shall Continue for euer That it shall neuer Erre in Doctrine so Reason concludeth by this gift and light of Faith that because it is ONE it must either be NONE at all or continue ONE And because IT CONTINVETH FOR EVER it can not therefore be NONE Remaining then ONE it is to be credited without al doubt because it hath the Sprite of Truthe with her and can not erre And as well to be credited now as it was xv huÌ„dred yeres sense because it is ONE and the selfe same nowe as it was then concerning Assistance of the Holy ghost Priuileges of Honour Infalliblenesse of Truthe Or any other like parteining to the very Substance and nature as I may say of the Church of Christ. Like as in your self M. Iewel Or in any of vs the same Reasonable Soule and Sensitiue life that we receyued of God and our Parents at our beginning continueth yet stil w t vs the Self same in substance Notwithstanding many thousand Alterations in Affections of minde and Disposition of body which haue in the meane time chaunced vnto vs And chainged vs in the chaunce so notwithstanding many Alterations which haue bene in the Church of Christ these xv C. yeres concerning external Gouernment thereof and Ecclesiasticall Orders The life yet Soule and Sense therof is of the same making and worthinesse in all Times and Circumstancies In the Opinion and Imagination of fainte harted and weake Christians it appeareth I graunt to be of more Authoritie If Christ in his owne person speaketh than if S. Paule his Apostle by his will and commaundement speake it And no doubt they haue a good Zeale therein often times and Deuotion but they haue not alwaies good knowledge and UnderstaÌ„ding The Maries brought tidinges vnto the Apostles of the Resurrection of our Sauiour and though they were but Women yet they were deuout Wise and blessed women And their sayinges agreed with the woordes of Christ himselfe spoken vnto them before his Passion so that they might well and should haue bene credited Neuerthelesse their wordes seemed vnto the Apostles no better than A Doting and vaine tale And S. Peter ranne to the Sepulchre to see perchaunce whether he coulde finde a better Argument or Testimonye of the Resurrection than the Maries had brought vnto him and his fellowes Which Argument when it was the selfe same daie made after the best maner vnto them that is by Christes owne presence and wordes yet S. Thomas being at that time absent and hearing at his Returne of the sight and ioye which his fellowes had Except I see quod he the print of the nailes and put my hand into his side I vvill not beleue As who should say that he alone could see more in such a matter than ten other Or that if he once tried iâ— and beleued it him self then it were to be bidden by but if he lerned and receiued it of other mens Report and knowledge then loe it was not clear and out of question Yet the Truthe is alwaies Oâ—e And as faithfully it was to haue bene beleued y t which the Maries or Apostles saw and heard As that which S. Thomas not only saw or hard but fealt also Now in these foresaid Persons and Examples the inward and harty deuotion did somewhat extenuate the Carnalitie of the Affection Mary in other Cases it is grosser and viler As when A Noble and Honorable man speaketh A wise worde it is regarded and remembred but when a poore and Simple Soule doth speake the like it lacketh the same Grace and strength with the hearers Yet the Trueth and wisedome of the saying being on both sides all ONE in goodnesse it might well become all men to honor it without Respect of
out of the six hundred next after Christ And this is that which deserueth iust Indignation that any man bearing the Person and Face of one that had discretion or Conscience should bind an other to a certaine compasse of Time and Yeres which in no case he should passe in Debating of any controuersie And yet would in the meane Time himselfe Argue Reason and Conclude out of any Time and require to haue it stand for profe good and sufficient of his owne Assertions And to vse that kind of Libertie or Prerogatiue not only when he speaketh ad hominem that is to the Meaning Sense Opinion or Fancie of the man with whom he hath to doe but also ad rem that is according to his owne Meaning Iudgment in which he taketh the testimonies by himselfe alleaged to perteine Directly and in deede to Confirmation of the cause which he susteineth Yet as I saied before let M. Iewels excuse be that he hath vsed Late wâ—yters Testimonies not for any stay of his own Opinions the contrary whereof I haue shewed but to stop only D. Hardinges mouthe and to set one Papist against an other Let him so saie and let vs so take it yet is this no indifferent dealing For if he wil bind vs to the first six hundred yeres and himselfe yet will presse vs with Authorities of later age either he mindeth that we shall Answer him in them or holde our peace and be still If we shall answer why apointed he the Lymites of six hundred yeres to be kept of vs For when he prouoketh vs with mater collected out of the cumpasse of them we must needes come also out of them and ioyne with him therevpon And if he minded that we should not at all Answer him and that himselfe yet would Obiect suche Testimonies vnto vs Why did he then Obiect them Except we shall Iudge of him that he is so Folishe as to apoint it or so Proude and Stately as to conceiue it that it maye be lawfull for him in fighting against his Aduersarie to haue certaine Places open vnto his Desperate Foynes and that no Warding of the Daunger and no Buckler should be vsed And therefore It is not to be graunted vnto you M. Iewel to Bind vs to the first six hundred yeres And to be Loose yourselfe concerning any witnesse or Authoritie of the nine hundred folowinge To set vs within a Circle and yourselfe to Discourse out of Order and Cumpasse To forbid vs the Alleaging of S. Bernard and yet to charge vs with the Opinion of Michael Uehe or any such other No Sir to the first six hundred you haue Appealed to the first six hundred only you shall stand If you wil Replie they be our owne Doctoures and therefore we maye not Refuse them We Answer shortly vnto you that whereas in your Singulare Iudgement they be no Doctoures at all And whereas you will not Suffer them to be Oâ—res Or that we maie alleage them and recite theÌ„ as our own we therefore in this Case and State of Reasoning with you doe not take them for our owne Yea they must be so compted vpon and so set aside as if they wer no mens witnesses at all Because you in Drawing the mater to the first six hundred yeres only doe Import and Conclude thereby that of al later Times and Writers you would haue A sad Silence to be agreed vpon and kept But where will M. Iewels Glorie be then And if he himselfe shall vse no Testimonie vnder the first vj. C. yeres how litle wil his Replie be How vncertaine must his Answers be How greate Blindnes and Silence must he come vnto Take away from M. Iewel and his felowes the last nine hundred yeres and you take away from them the Flowers of their Diuinitie Out of those yeres they Rake all the euill that is spoken of Popes Cardinals Priestes c. that by reueling other mennes Turpitude they may commend their owne bare Honesties Out of those come many Canons of Councels Constitutions of Emperours Uarieties of Historiographers Conclusions and Distinctions of Schole men in the number of which it is easy to find somewhat alwaies that shall sound against the Catholikes Either because all thinges are not to be taken as they lie but neede an Interpretation either because when many write of one Fact Or intreate of one mater they do not alwaies so throughly agree in euery point of the Historie or Question but that he whome it Pleaseth to striue therevpon with an other may sone find A doubt Or Argument to serue his humor of Contradiction Out of those many Gloses are peeked so Obscure or Trifling that were it not for the Diligence of Heretikes which haue brought them furth in to light They would as litle haue ben sought for of the Catholikes As they are now litle estemed of them when they are Found out and shewed to them by the Heretikes Take therefore the wrytinges of the last nine hundred yeres awaye from the Protestantes and there must needes folow such lacke of mater to make vp their Tales that they will sone be at an end both in writing and in Preachinge And not only concerning their ill Purposes As to bring either the Departed into hatred by opening their faultes Or them that at this Present line into Infamie by charging them with the faultes of their Forefathers but concerning also good and holsome Lawes Decrees Definitions Orders of Gouernement Customes Ceremonies which haue ben in these last nine hundred yeres Wisely apointed aâ—d Profitablie continued If nothing that is testified by the Writings and Practise of them shall stand in any steede to make a Sentence or ArgumeÌ„t what Confusion Contention Destruction Blindnesse Desperatnesse will be caused in both States Spirituall and Temporall It is easy to be perceaâ—ed What Church shall keepe her Priuileges what Clergie continue in any Order of Seruing God what King or Emperour maineteine the Crowne vpon his heade what state of Common wealth in all Christendome maye be defended If the Recordes Wrytinges Answers Decrees Actes Dispensations Conclusions and Lawes of the last nine hundred yeres must be all either vtterly refused Or beter Examined before they be receiued For in these later yeres Countries haue ben conuerted Religion hath ben Planted Heresies by the Authoritie of Councels haue ben condemned The Empire hath ben translated Our owne Realme of England hath ben conquered And in all these so greate pointes the Iudgmente and Sentence of the Pope hath alwaies ben regarded And that which at this day is holden for Truth in A thousand cases both Spirituall and Temporall dependeth in deede vpon the Decree and Order which the Gouernors of the Church for that time made for it and apointed when the case was first moued Or exhibited If therefore no Authoritie or Testimonie of these later nine hundred yeres must be admitted let M. Iewel with all his owne wit And Policy of his frendes byside see how he
Religion and let me holde my peace and permit vnto you that the Author of whom we speake was not Dioâ—ysius Ariopagita â–ª What was he then An Auncient writer as it may many waies wel appeeâ—e We Require you then to stand to his Testimony For no doubt he is within the first six hundred yeres whome you vouchesaâ—e to call Auncient And what so euer his Name be so that he be A writer whom you admit al is One to vs which seeke only to declare A Trueth and not to Prolong A Talke After which sort if you also be disposed let vs not striue vpon it whether he be Ariopagita or no but spend the time better in considering what he telleth of the Churches Orders in his daies And then comparing it with the Popishe Religion and the Protestantes Reformation let vs see which of the two is more like vnto it First you shall finde in his Ecclesiasticae Hierarchia that the Apostles deliuered heauenly thinges vnder sensibles signes c. partly by by vvriteâ— partly vnvvriten Institutions and Traditions And this is directly against them to whome there are no Uerities but vnwriten After this In the ministration of the Sacrament of Baptisme you finde plaine mention made Of Hymnes Of Kissing the holy Table â–ª Of God Father Of turning the partie vvhich is to be Baptized tovvardes the Vveast Of bidding him to Blovve and Puffe out the Diuell thre times And thrise to pronounce solemne vvordes of Abrenuntiation and Defiance against him Of Turning him againe tovvardes the East Of Blessing him and puâ—ting of handes vpon him Of Stripping him Of making the Signe of the Crosse vpon him three times before he be Anointed ouer the vvhole Body Of Sanctifiing the vvater vvith thrise pouring in of Oyle thereto in forme of A Crosse Of Dipping him thrise in to the vvater vvith naming of the three Persons in Trinitie Of putting a nevv Cote vpon him Of Anoiâ—ting him againe Of Pronouncing him ready for the Sacrament of the Aultare These Ceremonies and holy Signes in which the Apostles couered the Secrete Misteries which were not to be told all men how vnreuerently you esteeme of Your â—rinning and Railing at them and Abrogating or Abbrigging of them doth proue abundantly But let vs goe further Concerning the reuerent administration of the Communion you shall find expressely declared Hovv the Bishop beginning at the Aultare goeth censing about the holy Place Hovv after his returne thither made he beginneth to sing psalmes Then hovv the Lesso◠〈◊〉 be reade in order Hovv the Cathecumini which were Nouices yet in the Faith Lerners of it And Energumini which were possessed and trobled with euil spirites And Poenâ—â—entes which had not fully done their 〈◊〉 vvere all puâ— out of the Church hovv the Ministers are diuided in their Offâ—cies Some standing at the Dores some bringing furth Breade and vvine some doing other thinges hovv they Praise God hovv they they Salâ—te one an Other Hovv the Byshop vvasheth his handes and standeth at the middest of the Aultare hovv the Priestes vvashe their handes and stand aboute hym vvith the Select Ministers only Hovv the Bishope ea quae diuinissima sunt rite persicit doth vvorke and perfite dulâ—e those thinges that are most Diuyne hovv he shevveth the Giftes Diuinely vvrought Hovv he receiueth himselfe and inuiteth other thereto Hovv he endeth 〈◊〉 Thankes geauing Now with how Reuerent behauiour of body with how conuenient Gestures with how solemne wordes Signes and Cerimonies with how singular Preparation Attention Deuotion Adoration all those things were done it is easy to gather of these fewe pointes whiche are noted heere vnto vs whiche coulde not bee so quickelye done as theye are shortly spoken and of whiche as shortly as they be spoken the Author maketh Diuine and high Misteries For Incensing Singing Shutting of dores wasshing of handes standing alone perfiting of the Giftes which are y â— bread and wine proponed Shewinge of the Sacrament Receauing And Thankes geauing These things are sone told but if a man hadde beene Present to see with what Countenaunce Gate Action Circumstaunce Order and Reuerence euery one of them was exequuted I doubt not but it woulde haue seemed vnto him a more Popishe and Superstitious Seruice as the Heretikes nowe call it than that which is now done euery SoÌ„daie at S. Michels in Antwerpe To whiche Churche I referre my selfe because the Deacon and Subdeacon dooe Ordinarily there CoÌ„municate on suche Dayes with the Priest so that M. Iewels olde shift shall not serue in making his Reader beleue that our Masse is such A thing as is Distincted from A Communion And true it is in deede Of an Englishe Communion but not of A Catholike and Christian Communion But here is not all that is to be marked out of the forsaid Author For he declareth also how Oyle vvas halovved â–ª Fiâ—st the vnvvorthy vvere put out Then â—olovved incensing Singing Reading of Lessons putting of the Oyle vpon the Aultare couered before vvith xij vvhinges Praying ouer it and halovving it vvith holy Ceremonies and keeping of it to serue in all Bishoply Office He declareth further hovv Bishops hovv Priestes hovv Ministers are Consecrated Some kneeling on both knees some vpon one some by Imposition of handes other vvith the Bible allso holden ouer their heade But all haue the Signe of the Crosse made vpon them He declareth also howe Monkes are Consâ—crated They stand only behind the Priest vvhich hauing ended his misâ—icall Praier for them asketh vvhether they Renounce all Secular and distracted kind of Life Then doth he make the Signe of the Crosse vpon them and sheare them in the name of the Trinitie And putting them out of their former Apparell he doth other on them Saluteth them and Ministreth the Sacrament vnto them He declareth last of all the maner of Burying If he that is departed vvere A Priest he is laied before the Aultare If he be of the Laietie or A Monke he is laied before the holy Place vvhere the Priestes goe in But who so euer he be Solemne Praiers and Thankes are made and geauen vnto God Promises of the Resurrection are rehersed Psalmes are Songe Cathecumeni are put out of the Churche The Good men departed are praised and blessed The Liuing and present are exhorted to praye for a good end And then Cummeth the Bishope to the departed Praieth for him Saluteth him and after him all that be present Poureth Oyle vpon him And Laieth his body in an honorable place vvith others of the same Order Thus haue I sumwhat largely gathered out of the forsaied Author these Particulars that by the more open sight of these maters it might the better be considered which of the two the Church or the Congregation the Papistes or the Protestantes the Old men or the New are
liker in their doinges to the Primitiue Church And here now let vs ioyne with M. Iewel Sir Alow you these doinges of the Primitiue Church or do ye not If you doe why are they not extant then in your Congregation Or if yourselfe will be more Spirituall and Deiforme than to vse External Sensible meanes to conduct you vnto that which is One Single Pure and Inuisible why haue you not suffered others which haue not the lyke Eleuation and Abstraction of mind to vse these visible and holy signes of Incensing washing Crossing Anoynting Consecrating Shearing and other which I haue mentioned If you doe not how looke you like one that would follow Autentike and Graue Examples testified by Auncient and sad writers And wherefore doe you make the world beleue that you good men would haue all thinges reformed according vnto the Paterne of the Primitiue Church whose Procedinges are found to be so contrarie vnto the Ecclesiastical Orders of that time Be plaine M. Iewel in that which you intend and Quod â—acis sac citius If you esteme Antiquitie let neither Baptisme lacke Abrenuntiation c neither Confirmation Oilâ— neither the Sacrament of the Aultare singular demonstration of it Reuerence neither Priestes their due Consecration Nor the Liuing Occasions to bring them by outward Signes to Deuotion nor the dead Praiers And that Sign which hath ben vsed in all holy Functions and which of old they made in the Foreheade to testify that they were not ashamed of Christ the signe I meane of his CROSSE which is not only new A Foly to Panimes or Offence to Iewes but an Ignomynie to the Gospell and Apishnes in the Catholikes as some worse than Iewes or Painimes doe Blaspheme thys Signe of the Crosse Mayster Iewel restore againe vnto the Churches and suffer not them to be in Honours which thinke it a shame to haue a Token of our Redemption before their Eyes If you esteeme Antiquitie And if ye regarde it not why make ye vs beleeue that you woulde be ruled by yt Or why feede you the common sort with sweete hope of hauing a Sincere and Pure Religion restored vnto them according to the Exaumple and Orders of the Auncient and holy Church wheras you haue either blindely abandoned them before you knew them either desperately doe contemne them after ye be aduertised of them O say you He that wrot those bokes De Ecclesiastica Hierarchia was not S. Denyse the Ariopagite As who should say that if it were he you woulde in no wise contrary him But how shall I beleeue you Whereas you pretende that you will be content with the Aunciedt Fathers testimonies and yet cry out against that forme of Administringe the Sacraments whiche euery man seeth to haue been vsed in the Catholike auncient worlde by reporte of this writer whome your selfe confesse to be Auncieâ—t and that it may so appeere many wayes And nowe after it is euidente thâ—t whosoeuer he be he maketh against you would you Chaunge you Opinion M. Iewell and Repente your selfe of all former Lightnes If in in deede a more Learned and Graue man than Erasmus Iohn Collet or any other that you can tell of shoulde testifie that it is S. Denyse the Apariopagitas worke Uerely S. Gregorie the Greate maketh meâ—tion Dionysius Ariopagita which is vnto him Antiquus Venerabilis Pater an Auncient and venerable father whoÌ„ he saith by reporte of other to haue writen of the nyne Orders of Aungels Of whiche bookes this that wee speake of De Ecclesiastica Hierarchia is the fellow Origene also maketh an expresse mention of him alleaginge a text out of these Bookes whiche you mistrust But woulde this make you Chaunge you Opinion No you woulde haue xx questions vnto me and escape from me by xx waies rather than I should holde you so fast by this Argument out of S. Gregorie or Origine that you should not but confesse vnto vs that you are deceaued in your Iudgment concerning this Boke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia And if to proue me to be suspiâ—ious you would in deede incline to that side that not only some Auncient Father but Ariopagita himselfe were Author of this boke Reform then yourself and stop the mouthes of the Railing and Ignorant vnto whoÌ„e Crossing Incensing Anointing Signifying of Spiritual thinges by Corporall and Externall Formes and Imagies seemeth to be altogeather Papistrie Yet it is no mater to me in this obiecting against you what the name of that Author was You coÌ„fesse him to be auncient I infer them that he is worthy of credite You wil not be ruled by his Testimonie I gather then that you Regard not the Auncient And that I proue by an other Example The Supremacie of the Bishop of Rome of how greate force and strength it is the Catholikes Heretikes bothe doe see And as we doe proue it by true Experience that nothing is more needfull to be perswaded vnto such as loue to haue a sure Staye in all maters of Controuersies so our aduersaries doe set against nothing so Ernestly and Outragiously as the Prerogatiue of that See Here vpon starteth a Chalenger vp Shew me sayeth he that the Pope was euer Called Heade of the Church The Catholike Answereth He was in deede Head of the Church as appeereth many waies though he were not called in his Ordinarie Stile of writyng Head thereof Nay sayeth the Challenger shewe me the name it selfe That is the very thing that we deny But ye can not Sir how oft must I bring furth y â— name Mary If any learned maÌ„ of our aduersaries or if all the learned men that be aliue be hable to bring any one sufficient seÌ„tence c. I am content to yelde and subscribe And again As I saied at the beginning one good sentence were proufe sufficient Uery wel Sir One you shall haue if that can perswade you to Subscribe Eugenius Bishop of Carthage answered to Obadus requiring A Councell to be kept in Aphrica wherein The Arrians might dispute with the Catholikes concerning Religion and Faith that he would write to his brethern that his felow Bishops might come Et precipue Ecclesia Romana que Caput est omnium Ecclesiarum and the Church of Rome especially vvhich is the head of all Churches Here now of this Story and Text I gather that the Bishop of Rome is HEAD of all Bishops so much ought the Aduersarye to graunt vnto me if he loued not by force of consequence to be driuen vnto the confession of Truth but of his owne accord to yeld vnto reason For when Eugenius the Bishop answered that he would write that the Church of Rome most chiefly should come to y â— CouÌ„cel what meant he thereby Dyd he meane that any message should be sent to the marble Pillars Foundations Rowâ—es walles of Stone or any such vnsensible thing perteining to the Materiall Church of Rome Truly then for hys wit who
Victor that wrote the story of the Vandales he is neither Scripture For Scripture he was not alleaged And this also is against sincere and honest dealing to promise or rather protest that you would be tried by any Doctor Father Councel or Example of the Primitiue Churche and now so desperately to come in with this exceptioÌ„ that Uictor is no Scripture It foloweth Nor Councel Remember your selfe M. Iewel There are emong your Fauorers some discrete Sadde and Iust men Whome your Inuention in this place wil litle please And your much seeking to extenuate Uictors Authoritie wil be an Argument vnto them that you fall to Copie of wordes and shiftes of Rhetorike meete for Childerne when Copie of Sense â–ª and certaintie of good Answer doth not serue your greate Stomacke You saied wel once that one good sentence were Proufe sufficient and are you so much chainged so sodainely that you dare set light by an Auncient and graue wytnesse because he is no Councel You neede surely some good counsel least by extreme folowing with al your wit the defense of your mad ChalleÌ„ge you chauÌ„ce to fall bysides your wittes and haue no sense at al of your doinges It foloweth Nor Doctour Now define you then A Doctour For in deede whome you wil alowe to beare that name I can not tel And such Libertie you haue takeÌ„ now vnto your self of binding vs to your meaning that if you wil vnderstand by a Doctour none other but either S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Augustine or S. Gregorie which are called the foure Doctours of the Church Or some such as hath been solemly Created and made Doctour in some Uniuersitie we must be contenâ— with your sense and let you haue your owne minde and meaning But if you wil be ordered by reason you wil not deny I suppose that Uictor might wel be A Doctour which being a Bishop of no smal Citie in Aphrica had by al likelyhoode the knowledge of Scriptures and grace of expounding them and diligence in executing his office Except that M. Iewel wil be so Iniurious to the first six hundred yeares after Christ in which Uictor liued that he wil Iudge any one to haue ben made Bishoppe in those daies which was vnworthy to be a Doctour Againe if he were no Doctour was he therfore no Father And your self promising to admit any sufficient testimonie of any Father how wisely make ye now an Exception against Uictor â–ª because he was no Doctor It foloweth Nor writeth the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church O worthy Exception Doth S. Augustine in his bookes of Confession write the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church Nothing lesse For alâ—ogether they are compiled of his owne Actes Lyfe Chaunces Cogitations and Interrogations But what then Might not one for al this bring a good testimonie out of those bokes for prouâ—e of any mater that is in controuersie And when the Heretike denieth prayers for the Dead should not the example of S. Augustine whose prayer for his Mothers soule is extant in his Confessions quite and cleane sâ—oppe his Procedinges and make his very Impudencie ashamed What new found reason then is this of M. Iewels to contemne an AuncieÌ„t writer if he write not of those Maters and write also in such Order of them as he requireth When we alleage Clemens de Constitutionibus Apostolicis S. Denyse de Coelesti Ecclesiastica Hierarchia S. Iames Liturgie S. Chrysostomes Liturgie Sozomenus Nicephorus Or â–ª the Decrees and Decretales straitwaies you either deny them either suspect them either wil fyle them better before you beleue them Yet there are not in whom you may see more expressely the printes and the formes of the order or practise of the Primitiue Church For where shal one better finde what the Religion was in euery Age than in the Histories of those times and in Decrees Answeres and forme of publike Seruice that in euery of them was vsed You therefore which so litle set by those writers by whom we may vnderstand most plainly what the particulars were of the cause and state of our Religion in the Primitiue Churche now when Uictor is brought against you sodainly you be so chaunged as though it might be an exception against a witnes that he writeth not the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church And yet this Exception of yours commeth not so luckely against Uictor Which although he take not into his storie the Actes of the Apostles or the succession of Bishoppes after them or al the persecutions throughout Christendome or the Martyrs of al Countries Or the perfection and rule of those holy Monks â—hat liued in wildernesses Or the Decrees of al Councels Or euery other such mater as might be spoken of by a General Historiographer yet what state the Church was in vnder the Uandales he describeth sufficiently And by his telling this much we vnderstande of the Order and Practise yf not of the Primitiue Church yet of that Church which was within the six hundred yeres after Christe the which time you haue allowed vs that in a mater concerning Faith and in a Councel to be gathered it was thought mâ—ete then to make other Bishoppes besydes them of Aphrica priuy thereof and especially to haue the presence of the Bishoppes of Rome because The Church of Rome is head of al churches Which Euidence because it is so plaine against you therefore hauing nothing to said reasonably against the sentence Yoâ— hâ—â—e sâ—retched your wittes to findâ—â—xâ—eptions against the Reporter oâ— it And you saiâ— farther against him Nor is it wel knowen either of what credite he was or when he liued Concerning his Credite he was Bishoppe of Utiâ—a and by likelyhoode therfore of good Estimation emong the Catholiques and A Man worthy to be heleâ—ed For in al kindes and Contrarietiâ—s of Religion such as are high Priestes Bishops or Superintendents it seemeth that they are of the better sort of the Famiâ—ie Churche or Cougregation out of which they are taken do doe that Office And further whose bookes were compâ—ed then worthy the copieng out and were so kept then that they remaine yet vnto vs And are so accepted at this present that they be translated into French His credite needeth not to be mistrusted or called without cause into question He wrote also vnto Hunericus King of Uandales an accoÌ„pt of his faith being driuen thereto by the CoÌ„maundement of y â— King By which you may perceiue that great accoÌ„pt was made of him Concerning then his age he liued not long after the time of S. Augustine farre within the First six hundred yeares out of which any Testimonie is sufficient against you For when the Uandales were in Aphrica and were busy in furthering the Procedinges of the Arrians then liued Uictor as may appeere by his Answer to Hunericus by diuerse places of his historie in which he speaketh of him selfe as one present at y â— doing
somuch vsed in the primitiue Church The Church sence that tyme hath chaunged the maner of kissing and kepte the signification whiche was in it by geauing of the pax or peace But this peace say you was not a litle table of syluer or somwhat els as hath bene vsed yea and is still vsed in the Churche of Rome but a very cosse in deede in token of perfit peace and vnitie in faith and religion So Iustinus Martyr saieth speaking of the tyme of the holy Mysteries we salute one an other with a cosse So likewyse Chrysostome and others True it is M. Iewel and knowing so much of the practise in the Primitiue Church why doe ye not vse this so Auncient and holy a Ceremonie If you will not haue the Pax of syluer either for sparinge of charges Or feare of Commissioners vpon Church goodes Or in despite of the Church of Rome vse then in your mysteries a very cosse in deede according to the Paterne of the Primitiue Church And iâ— neither old nor newe Ceremonies can please you why crake you in contemning the Later that yet you regarde stil the Auncient and Approued Orders Or with what face doe you allege these approued Fathers testimonies by whose sayings you wil not be ruled M. Iewel is alwaies â—â—sie iâ— proâ—ing that the people in the Primitiue Churche dyd Communicate with the Priest As though the concluding of that were a cleane ouerthrowe to the Catholike Religion yet no Catholike did euer deâ—se it and aâ— this tyme also when Charitie is 〈…〉 yet doe the people often in the yere 〈◊〉 with the Priest Now by occasâ—on of proâ—ing this which I must againe saie no man denieth he saieth in diuerse places of his Replie The Deacons receiue the Communion aftervvard the Mysteries be caried vnto a place vvhere the people must Communicate It is lawful only for the Priestes of the Church to enter into the place vvhere the Aultare standeth and there to Communicate Let the Priestes and Deacons Communicate before the aultare the Clerkes in the quiere and the peoâ—le vvithout the quiere Howe like you these dstinctions of Places and Persâ—ns M. Iewel Yea rather why lyke you them not Haue not yoâ—â—ulled downe Chauncell Taken away partitions made the pauement thoroughout leuell Set the Communion table in the myddle Set formes for the Laitie to sit about it And haue not your selfe geauen strange orders as it were to al the people noting it by your owne wit as appâ—ereth out of Fabian the Pope that men and women made the sacrifice of the aultare and of bread and wine and therefore after the order of Melchisedech But if the people could not so much as come nigh the Aultare where the Priest stode or receyâ—e at the most in the quier how far of were they at those daies from y â— irreuereÌ„cie y â— now is vsed And how far wide are you froÌ„ y â— towardâ—es is reforme al things by the paterne of the primitiue Church Yet are you not afraied nor Ashamed to allege those Councels and Authorities which condemne your â—rocedinges vtterly S. Basile saieth M. Iewel thinking still all thinges to helpe hym that proue a coÌ„munitating of moe together reporteth an ecclesiastical decree or CanoÌ„ that at the receiuing of the holy Communion which he calleth Mysticum pasca ther ought to be twelue persons at the least and neuer vnder And you to proue your selues folowers of Antiquitie and Restorers of ecclesiastical Canons haue decreed that three shall make vp a Communion and for A neede the Prieste and the sicke person alone Si haec vasa c. If the mater be so daungerous to put these sanctified vessels vnto Priuate vses wherein is conteined not the very body of Christ but the mysterie or Sacrament of Christes body c. You iudge I perceiue the Author of that booke to be S. Chrysostome and this place to be true and godly Therefore â–ª that you maie consider it the better and by your commendacion other Protestantes I wil englishe the whole sentence vnto them The Author of that booke whosoeuer he were persuading with the people to vse wel their tongue least vncleane spirites doe enter thereby into their bodies If it be synne and daunger saieth he to put haloued vessels vnto priuate vses as Balthasar teacheth vs vvhich because he dranke in halovved cuppes vvas put byside his kingdome and his life If then it be so daungerous a mater to put these sanctified vessels vnto priuate vses in vvhich the true bodie of Christ is not but the mysterie of his bodie is conteined hovv much more behoueth it vs concerning the vessels of our bodie vhich God hath prepared for himselfe to dvvel in not to geaue the deuil place to doe in them vvhat he vvil A stronge argument surely and persuasible For if deade metal which by it selfe is not apte to receiue holinesse be had yet in Reuerence because of the speciall vse which it serueth for in the temple of God how should not our bodies the lyuely vessels of our reasonable Soules be kepte still pure and Inuiolâ—â—ed If for the vessels which Balthasar â—â—phaned which serued in the Figurâ—â— of the old law which had not y â— very body of Christ in them â–ª but A signe and Mysterie only thereof If for these God plagueth and striketh how shal they escape which receiue into their bodies the very true Body of Christ and haue God corporally dwelling in them through the Mysterie of his Incarnation and vertue of his Consecration And yet dare turne themselues vnto prophane vncleane vses This is the true sense of that place But when begyn you M. Iewel to tell openly the daunger which they incurre before god though y â— world alow it which Either after vow made of Chastitie haue turned them selues first out of their Monasteries and shortly after haue ouerturned themselues into Incestuous Carâ—alitie Either spoiling the Churches of God of the halowed and consecrated vessels haue conuerted them into prophane vses and drinke in Chalices at their Tables No doubt by the example of Balthasar but that they are in sore daunger which serue themselues anâ— their priuate Affections with the 〈◊〉 and proper vessels appointed for God And if it be so in corruptible and base maters are not the polluted weddinges of Nonâ—es Monkes harlottes and Renegates much more accursed and execrable But when wil you protest this much M. Iewel And if you like not this consequence why refuse yoâ— your owne witnesse This place also that foloweth is made to serue for prouâ—e that there were that Communicated with the Priest They that haue fallen into Heresie and do penance for the same vvhen the Nouices that be not yet Christened be commaunded to depart out of the Church let them depart also â–ª Ergo they that remained did Communicate togeather Wel to let go y â—
ArgumeÌ„t the grauÌ„ting of which proueth nothing against vs What place is that in al your Communion where Nouices or Penitentes must go out Or how agreeth this with the compelling of men into your CoÌ„gregation against their willes The people rise before day and hie them to the house of prayer You bring in this vpon occasion of Praying in a knowen tongue which the Greeke and Latine both are Of which I haue spoken of in the third Article of my first booke But how like you this rising before day Non sum inquis Monachus c. Thoâ— vvilt say I am no Monke I haue vvife and children and charge of household This is it that as it vvere vvith a Pestilence infecteth altogether that ye thinke the reading of the holy Scriptures belongeth only vnto Monkes This is spoken of M. Iewel to exhort the people to y â— getting of knowlege which may be wel spoken to them and sone goten of them if Curiositie doth not let it But what were these Monkes so distincted by the studie of Scriptures from the rest of the people And what like Profession or Example haue you in al your Reformations Decernimus â—um extranâ—um esse c. Vve decree that he shal be remoued from his office of Priesthoode and from our Communion and from the Primacie of his Abbie This is alleaged of M. Iewel to proue a confessed Truth that Primatus is taken for any preferrement before others But let him consider it were Abbies then within the .600 yeres after Christ â–ª And in such reputacioÌ„ that a general Councel counted it emong other thinges for a great Ignominie and Punishment a Monke to be deposed from y â— Primacie in them M. Iew. hoping to conclude therby y â— the B. of Rome should not be Supreme ouer al sheweth what large Priuilegies Emperours haue geuen to the Clergie which for Ciuil Actions he may do wel inough as being in them Suprem himself Omnes qui vbicâ—que sunt c. Al that be or hereafter shal be Priestes or Clerkes of the Catholike faith of vvhat Degree so euer they be Monkes also let them not in any Ciuile Aâ—tions be dravven â—oorth to any foren Iudgement by the summon or commaundement of any Iudge more or lesse neither let them bee driuen to come foorth of either the Prouince or the place or the countrie vvhere they dvvel Yf you see then how greately the Clergie was honored in times past and allow the Authors of their Priuilegies Why labour you as much as ye can to to bring al the Spiritual power into subiection Or why defende you not the right of the Clergie like Reformers of the Church Priestes and Clerkes are before your 〈◊〉 drawen before teÌ„poral Iudges into their Courtes Monkes not only not saued from the paines to go for any mater out of the Countrie but not suffred to haue any place in your Countrie Such charitie hath ben taught by your Gospel and with such pure folowing of antiquitie you haue proceeded The place appointed vnto the priest for the holâ— Ministerie as it may be gathered by S. Chrysostome at certaine times of thâ— Seruice was drawen with Curtaines This proueth not that the Aultare was placed in the middest of the Church as M. Iewel would haue it but by this we may wel gather that great reuerence was vsed then aboute the Mysteries which you forsooth haue so mainteined that as though the Celebration of the Mysteries was not open inough before you haue in some places pulled downe the Partition between the body of the Church and the Quier And haue caused generally the Communion Table to be â—â—ought downe neerer the people least 〈◊〉 Curtaines which you occupy should let their sight Ergo vt 〈◊〉 pâ—ssint c. Therefore that these thinges may â—e vvel examined it is vvel prouided that euery yeare in euery Prouince at tvvo seueral times there be holden a Councel of Bishoppes that they meeting together out of al partes of the Prouince may heare and determine such 〈◊〉 When beginne you to put this Canon in execution Truely Liberatus saith The manner was in Alexandria that who so euer was chosen Bishop there should come to â—e beare and laie his Predecessours hand vpon his head and put on S. Markes Cloke and then was he sufficiently confirmed Bishoppe without any mention made of Rome You are a special frinde to the Bishoppe of Rome whiche rather then he should haue to do with Consecrating of Bishoppes you can wel fansie a deade mans blessing and the solemne vsing of a Relique which how hartely ye fauour I am in doubt I proue it therefore vnto thee by these Examples Indifferent Reader not onely that M. Iewel is a decâ—itful Man but I geue the also occasions how to trie him whether he be in dede an hypocritâ— or no. For if he thinke the forsaid testimonies out of the holy Fathers or Councels to be of such force and generalitie that we may in no case receiue a diuerse order from theirs Why are not Monasteries standing with them Why are not olde Ceremonies obserued Why is not water and wine mingled together in their Chalice as plain Examples of y â— Primitiue Churche declare vnto vs to haue been then vsed And if he Answer that the Canons Orders and Fasshions or practises of old time are not so to be vnderstanded of vs as though the Ages folowing might not by lawful Authoritie fâ—l consent put an other CanoÌ„ in place of the olde Why laieth he it to y â— Catholiks charge that the Priestes now say Masse though but one alone be present which was otherwise by Pope Soters decree Or why telleth he vs out of S. Basil of an old Canon y â— appointed twelue at the least to receiue together Here I should thinke he must nedes be takeÌ„ for who knoweth the vttermost of his Art in shifting but I thinke verely he coulde not escape in this place a iust note either of high malice in obiecting that against his Aduersarie which him self knoweth to be litle worth either of deepe Hypocrisie in pretending a Reuerence towardes Antiquitie which in very deede he câ—ntemneth How M. Iewel allegeth for himself the woordes and deedes of Olde condemned Heretiques BEVVARE therefore of M. Iewel you that seeme to haue as it were A Conscience and make a ReligioÌ„ of Religion For many there are that liue emong Christians them selues also being Christians which so hartely folow y â— world their own coÌ„cupisceÌ„ces y â— neither Catholike bookes wil do them good they are so carelesse neither heretical do them harme they are so desperate But you which are not past al feare of God and care of Saluation whom examples of sinne which were to be seene emong the Papistes or were gathered out of al Stories and Countries against them did make to aâ—horre
euen the Religion it selfe which corrupte persons professed Whome faire Promises of Gospellers that they would shewe you a ready and shorte way vnto Heauen in which you should haue no cariage of Ceremonie Tradition Lentes Fast Penaunce Feare of Purgatorie c. And that you should haue al things ministred vnto you in like order and manner as they were vsed emong the faithful in the Primitiue Churche you I say whom these faire promisâ—â— haue made to forsake the Olde and Catholique Religion vpon hope to finde a more Auncient and Receiued ReligioÌ„ which y â— new Masters holy Doctors councels would teach you BEWARE you of M. Iewel For wheras you would not haue forsaken y â— râ—ligion in which you were baptized which al Christians then in al the world professed opeÌ„ly exâ—â—pt you had beleued y â— as it was told you so you should â—e reduced to the perfite state of A true Religion euen as it was to be found in the Primitiue Church how misâ—rably are ye nowe deceaued where your Mâ—sters doe not in deede regarde the Example and practise of the same Churche for loue and desâ—er of which you folowed them leading you quite awaie from the Obedience of the present Church How wel maie euerie one of you whome M. Iewel hath peruerted â—aie vnto hym Syr haue you put me in this hope that in folowing of you I should goe in the safe waie of the primitiue Church of holy Fathers of Auncient Councels And my mynde geauing me that al was not wel in this present Church in which you and I both were baptised and that the neerer one might come to the beginninges of the Christian Faith he should find it the more surer and purer haâ—e you serued my humour therein and promising to reforme al thinges according to the paterne of the Auncient Catholike Church are you proued in the eâ—d to neglect those selfe same orders which were obserued in the most best and most Auncient tymes Spake you faire vnto me vntil I was come vnto you from the Cumpanie where I lyned and doe ye not 〈◊〉 those thinges vnto me for hopâ— of whiche I brake from my 〈…〉 cosse I know or a curtaine Or A 〈◊〉 in the Church are not essential anâ— without them we maie be saued But yet if in the pure and Primitiue Churche such thinges were alowed you haue not done wel to make me contemne the Pax or vestmentes or distinction of places such as were vsed in the Church from which I departed And yet If these thinges be buâ— light and Ragges as some wil saie of the 〈◊〉 Religion was the building of Monasteries a light mater in the primitiue Church And that Rule of lyfe which Monkes then folowed was it of smal importance by the Iudgement of that worlde so nigh to Christ You haue made me beleue that to lyue in such Order should be a derogation to the merites of Christe A trusting to our owne workes A â—ondage of conscience a promise of thinges impossible A Superstitioâ—s and 〈◊〉 fashion and at one worde that Monkerie should be Trumperie And yet doth it appeare by our owne allegations that Monkes and Abbates were in the Primitiue Church and that they were also in greate repâ—â—ation What shal I saie of the most highe and dreadful Mysterie the Sacrament of the bodie and Bloud of Christ whereas the witnesses that yoâ— bring in for other purposes doe testifie vnto me that the Cuppe of the Lord was mingled with wine and water can I take in good part and with a quiet Conscience that you put no water at al in the Cup of the Lord If you had not chalenged if you had not prouoked if you had not geauen most infallible tokens as me thought that al Antiquitie had gone smothe with you or if you had refused at y â— beginning al other Authoritie bysides the Expresse Scriptures I might haue deliberated whether I would haue folowed you or no But now making so large goodly promises that you would not take my Religion awaie from me but that you would only reforme it that you would not denie the Faith whiche the whole world professeth buâ— require it to be reduced vnto the order of the Primitiuâ— Church I yelded quickly therein vnto you and thought that these surely be the men of God whiche shall purge the Church of al Superfluites and leaue it in as good health constitution as euer it was in her florisshing tyme. And are you not ashamed that the very printes and steppes of papistry are found euen within that age which you warranted vnto me to be altogether for the Gospel And that in those selfsame testimonies which your selfe vpon occasion doe bring out against the Papistes what were not they themselues lykely to shew if they might be suffered to vtter what diuersitie there is betwixt this Late welfauored Gospel and the Catholike old Religion seeing that you can not so order the mater in reciting of Auncient Fathers Councels but it must be straite wayes perceaued that your procedings are not conformable vnto the Primitiue Church O wretched and vile Glorie to fill the margine of a Booke with the Councels of Nice Carthage Chalcedon Constantinople Ephesus c. and with the testimonies of Anacletus Felix Soter Calixtus Chrysostom Basile Ambrose Augustine c. as though that it were not M. Iewel that made any thing of his owne but as though in al that he concluded he folowed most exactly the holy Councels and Fathers â–ª and before all be knowen to be conuinâ—â—â— most cleerly and euidently that his doeinges are not lyke the holy Fathers Religion what a confusion is it vnto that Glorie and what a Detriment to right meaning and wel willing consciencies In this sort might an honeste and graue man complaine and say lesse than M. Iewel deserueth For now I will shew vnto thee IndiffereÌ„t Reader that he allegeth and that very sadly and solemly the testimonies of Heretikes as though it were no mater at al how wel it would be admitted emong the lerned so that the common Reader be perswaded that M. Iewel speaketh not without his Authorities For proufe thereof let this be one Example The Bishopes of the East part of the vvorlde being Arians vvriting vnto Iulius the Bishope of Rome tooke it greeâ—ously that he vvould presume to ouer rule them And shevved him that it vvas not lavvful for him by any sleight or colour of appeale to vndoe that thing that they had done This is one of M. Iewels testimonies to proue against the Bishoppe of Romes Supremacie In alleaging of which although he lacked a point of discretion in bringing of their sentencies furth whom al the worlde hath condemned for starcke Heretikes yet he hath not forgoten al conscience and charity in that he confesseth to his Reader that these Bishoppes of the East whose doinges he thinketh worthie to be consydered were Arians Which I praie thee Indifferent Reader to
the Canons of Auncient Councels But as I doe grauÌ„t vnto you that the Councel of Laâ—dicea hath that such only bookes as are of the old new TestameÌ„t should be readen in the Church so that y â— like also is declared as you boldly say in the Councel of Carthage it is so manifestly vntrue y â— it may not be suffered For these are the verie wordes of the Councel Item placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas â—ihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine Diuinarum Scripturarum that is Vve like it also that nothing besides the Canonical Scriptures be readen in the Church in the name of the Diuine Scriptures The Councel therefore forbiddeth not other things bysides the Canonical scriptures to be readen in the Church but it prouideth that nothing be readen there as in the name of Scripture which is not true Scripture in dede And this appeereth most euidently by other wordes which folowe in the selfe same Canon where it is sayed Liceat etiam legi Passiones Martyrum Cum Anniuersarij eoruÌ„ celebrantur Be it lauful also to haue the Passions of Martyrs readen vvhen their yerely Daies are celebrated and kept holy By this it is most euident that other thinges bysydes the Canonicall Scriptures as the Passions of Martyrs such vndoutedly as we haue for a great part in the Legends of the Church were permitted to be readen in the publike Seruice And that M. Iewels comparison that the Lessons then read in y â— Church were taken out of y â— holy Bible ONLY as he meneth as it is now vsed in the church of England hath no agreablenes and Proportion For whâ—t one Martyr is there in al the whole booke of the Common praier of England S. Sâ—euen only excepted which hath any Festiual day appointed out for him or any storie of his Passion declared But like perfite Diuines you wil no other thing but Scripture onely readen in your Churches in which pointe you would be seene to follow the Councel of Carthage You deceaue the people by your glorious lying The Counâ—â—l of Carthage as you perceiue by the wordes which I haue alleged alloweth not onely Caâ—onical Scriptures but Martyrs Passions also to be Readen in the Church Why say you then so impudentlie that it it was there Decreed that nothing should be read y â— Church vnto the People sauing onely the Canonical Scriptures I aske of you also where the Passions â—f those Martyrs are which at the beginninge had their Holidaies in the Churche And should to this daie haue them if as you doe chalenge it you were of the holie and Catholike Church S. Clement Cornelius Cyprian â—istus Lawrence Uincent Sebastiane and other whom the whole world honoreth what solemme Feastes haue you of them or what Lessons and Homilies are Readen in your Churches of their Passions Were there no Martyrs in the world after the Apostles were once departed this lyfe Or know you any more excellent than these whome I haue named Or haue you no mynde or affection to any of them Or haue you spied a Canon in the Councel of Carthage that nothing but Canonical Scriptures shal be readen in the Church And could you noâ— see the plaine Exception which is straite waies in the same Canon made against it that notwithstanding the former wordes the passions of martyrs should be readeÌ„ in the Church when their yerelie daies are celebrated But of the beggarlines of this new Religion â–ª and how it is altogether dâ—stituted of Martyrs Confessors â–ª Uirgiâ—s of all kinde of Sainctes it is to be spoken at more leasure in the meane tyme this I leaâ—â— most euidentlie proued thâ—â— M. Iewel hath abused Councels How M. Iewel hath abused the Decrees of the Canon Lawe THere is smal hope that he whiche dareth wrest Beliâ— and Peruerte Councels wil spare to vse al Losenesse and Libertie in squaring oâ— Decrees and Decretals to his purpose And manie will thinke on the other side that M. Iewel is so honest and good of nature that he would not no noâ— of the diuell himselfe if he might winne â—ny thing by lying and muchlesse in the cause of God his true Religion reporte any thing of any man that euer yet wrote otherwyse ther â–ª the Trueth is and the wordes of the Author Examples then muste confirme my obiection emonge which this is one Fabianus sâ—â—â—th M. Iewel Bishop of Rome hath plainely decreed that the people should recâ—aue the Communion euery sondaie His wordes be plaine Decâ—rnimus c. We decree that euery sondaâ— the Oblation of the Aultare be made of al men and women both of bread and wine True it is that Fabianus willed such Oblations of bread and wine to be made and them to this end 〈◊〉 à peccatoruÌ„ suorum â—ascibus liberentur that the people might be deliuered of the burden of their sinnes But offering euerie Sonday and Receiuing euerie Sondaie are two thinges To prouide that the people should Offer Bread and Wine euerie Sondaie it was necessary because that is the proper mater of which the Sacrament of the Aultare is made and because the Clergie also liued then of the offerings of the people But to decree that al men and women should Receiue euâ—rie Sonday it is altogether vnreasonable that it should haue ben Fabianus mynde For in the verie same place there is an other Decree of his that men should Communicate thrise at the least if no oftener in a yere that is At Easier â—ittesoâ—â—ide and Chrisimasse except perchaunce some man be letted by anie kind of the grevous crimeâ— If then â—e required no more but that the people should Receaue thrise a yere how is it possible that by this decree of which M. Iewel speaketh and in which there is no mâ—ntion of the peoples receauing â—ut of their Offering only of Bread and Wine any charge should be laied vppon al men and womens consciencies to Receaue euery Sondaie Ye might as wel conclude that in euery parish of England thâ—re was some one or other of the laie people that Receaued alwaies on Sondaie in one kinde at the leaste with the Priest because an holy loafe as we cal it was Offered euery Sondaie But consider yet further Indifferent Reader how finely and properly M. Iewel gathereth Argumentes out of Auncient Popes decrees He noteth out of the foresaied wordes not only that men and women Receaued euery Sondaie but also that they Offered bread and Wine euery Sondaie according to the Order of Melchisedech By which accompte so manie Priestes and Sacrificers were in the Church as were men and women that offered bread and wine Yea not only men and women that are of perfitte discreation but all the boâ—es and wenches of the Parishe may with litle charges be quickly within orders For as M. Iewel compteth there is no more in it but to Offer bread and wine to the Aultare and straitewaies al that doe so are
Priestes after the Order of Melchisedech But if that be so how is the order of Melchisedech more perfitte than the Order of Aaron Or how was there such a Religion and Reuerence aboute the order of Aaron that none but of a certaine tribe should be made Priestes neither they also without vocation and consecration if to the order of Melchisedech at y t coming of which that of Aaron is perfited and accomplished euery woman be within the Order by offering of bread and wine to the Aultar You M. Iewel that haue such knowledge in the vnderstanding of the Popes decrees are you Ignorant in the law of Moyses Remember you not that emong other thinges that the people Offered Bread and wine were in y â— number But what speak I of the peoples Acte The priests themselues y â— â—oke sâ—ch bread at their bâ—ndes and lifted it vp before their Lord offered likewise of the wine by powring out of it in the sight of the Lord were they of the order of Melchisedech or no No surely not of Melchisedechs order but of the order of Aaron only If therefore a solemne offering of bread wine euen in persons consecrated doth not include the oâ—der of Melchisedech you are much to â—eking of your purpose which note that y â— men and women that offered in S. Fabians â—â—ne â–ª bread and wine to the Aultar were 〈◊〉 after the order of Melchisedech So absâ—rde it is y â— a Pope of Rome should haue any such meaning in his deâ—â—â—e as you do gather thereof y â— I beleue the most folishe heretike in al the world wold not but w t much study haue peeked it out 〈◊〉 vs coÌ„sider an other exaÌ„mple Certainly saieth M. Iewel it seemeth 〈◊〉 S. Gregorie in his time thought singing 〈◊〉 the Church to be a fitter thing for the multitudâ— of the people theÌ„ for y e priest For he expressely forbiddeth the Priest to sing in the Church But I do not remember that euer he forbadde the People The more you warrant it with your Certainly that S. Gregorie should be of the mind which you imagine y â— more ernestly I besech thee indiâ—â—erÌ„t reader to mark how substaÌ„tially M. Iew. buâ—ldeth w tout any fouÌ„dation For this first is manifest ther haue ben froÌ„ y â— beginning distiÌ„ct orders officers in y ◠〈◊〉 of christ as Bishops priests deaâ—ons subdeacoÌ„s acoliâ—es exorcists readeâ—â— sextiâ—s Singers And if these 〈◊〉 were euer kepte in the Church without question they were obserued most orderly in S. Gregories time whome for his greate diligence in setting furth of the seruice of god the heretikes themselues doe cal sauing their charity MagistruÌ„ ceremoniauÌ„ the Master of ceremonies He therefore seing this faulte in the Church of Rome that men apointed to higher offices wer also chosen to serue in lower functions as in example y â— Deacons to become singingmen prouideth by a special decree to haue it reformed The Decree is this In sancta Romana Ecclesia dudum consuetudo est valde reprehensibilis exorta caeâ— There is risen of late a very il custome in the holy Church of Rome that certaine vvhich are apointed to serue at the holy aultare are chosen to be Singynâ— men And that they vvhich are placed in the degree of Deaconship should be occupied about the svveete tuning and deliuering of their voices vvhom it vvere more meete to intend their office of preaching and to be diligent in distributing of Almes â—hereof â—or the more parte it cummeth â—o passe that vvhiles a svveete voice is sought for a tunable agreable life is neglected and the Miâ—ister or Dâ—acon vvhich is A Singing man doth pricke and greeue God vvith his manners vvhiles hâ— deligâ—teth the people vvith his voice Vvherfore by this present decree I apointe it that in this See the Ministers at the holy Aultare shal not singe â—â—derstand beneth in the quier as Singing men doâ— aâ—d that they shal only doe their Office in Reading the Gospel at the Celebration of Masse As for â—â—â—â—mes â–ª and â—o furth lessons I decree that they shal be done by the Subdeacons or if necessitie require by the lesser Orders This is the whole decree But where is it here that a Priest should not Singe â–ª The cause of making this decree was the 〈◊〉 of the Deacons And the Singging â–ª which was forbidden them was of that kinde as y â— Singing meÌ„ vsed and no such Singing as is vsed in Reading of a Gospel To speake also of the Priest thinketh M. Iewel that the Masse which he celebrated solemlie in S. Grigories time was of his part celebrated without note And that in beginning of Gloria in excelsis Or in saying of Dominus vobiscum Or Sursum corda and so furth in the Preface he sang 〈◊〉 not out in a certaine quiet and easy tunâ— The contrary is so cleare that the note which is vsed in the Church in prefaces of y â— Masse and in halowing of the Font which are done by a Priest only or Bishop is called Cantus Gregorianus But goe to M. Iewel proceede in your Abusing of Decrees If singing be not fit for a Priest for whom is it fitte You answer that Certeinly it seemeth that S. Gregorie in his time thought singing in the Church to be a thing fitter for the multitude of the People then for the Priest Now for shame of your selfe dare yâ— put it in print y t Certainly it semeth so And dare ye note vnto vs the Decree In Sancta Romana for proufe thereof Ther is no one word in the whole Decree that soundeth to y â— purpose There is no mention of the multitude Yea the multitude of people is excluded as it is certâ—inly to be gathered of the decree For it appointeth the Psalmes to be song of the Subdeacons by name â—ut if necessity should require â–ª y â— then thâ—i of the inferior orders of the Church might excecute y â— office If therfore it was not Ordinariâ— no not for euery one of the Clergiâ— to sing y â— Psalmes if when y â— case of necessitie came that only caâ—e made it lauful for y â— inferiour Orders to sing reade in y â— Church how Absurdlie or impudentlie gather ye out of this Decree y t to sing in the church was thought fitter for the multitude of the people then for the Priest It is to be noted further y â— M. Iewel speaketh not of people Indefinitely but of the multitude of people CoÌ„fusely For pâ—ople to bâ— suffered to sing may haue a tolerable sense when certain meet for the purpose should be taken thervnto And yet in S. Gregories time this would not 〈…〉 suffered in Rome as appeareth by the forsaid Decree but y â— multitude of people to be compted fit for singing in the church it is altogether so oâ—t of tune and Order that they lacke both eares and reason coa◠〈◊〉 it
the constitution through he maketh mentioÌ„ only Huius Regia Civitatis of this princely Citie meaning Constantinople and especially of the greate Churche there Of which he hath suche care and for which he taketh such a Special order that he apointeth how many Priestes Deacons and Subdeacons c. it should haue and not aboue As three skore a hundred Deacons and Women fortie which were not you may be sure their Wyues excepte two men and an halfe should haue gone to one Subdeacons nynetie Readers a hundred and ten Singers fiue and twentie so that al the number of the most Reuerende Clerkes of the most holy Great Church shal consist in foure hundred twenty and fiue besides and aboue a hundred of them which are called Oâ—â—arij that is Porters So many then Iustinian aloweth to the number of one Church in Constantinople for all his staie made that Clerkes should not encrease And that â–ª because that one Church was wel hable to find so manie without borowing of others or laying to pleage of their owne But with the Church of Rome or with Monks he doth not once meddle I faiâ— it againe M. Iewel he doth not meddle so much as once With what Face then and Conscience referre you this Constitution to the Church of Rome And in so greait a mater as the Supremacie is wherefore abuse you the Authoritie of the Emperour in making your Reader conceaue that Iustinian for all that the Papistes call the Churche of Rome Holy feared not yet to made a Lawe that it should not haue aboue a certaine number of Uicars Monkes and Prebendaries of which it would folowe by likelyhood that the Emperour tooke him selfe for a worthier Head of the Church than the Pope A plainer ExaÌ„ple thaÌ„ this to shew M. Iewels falsehod I can not lightly haue but that he shal not say that this is al I can obiect against him for mistaking or miâ—nsing of the Clinâ—e Lawe behold an other The Law saith Generaliter dictum Generaliter est accipâ—endum The thing that is spoken Generally most be taken Generally The Law saith it not â–ª But wheras a Legacie is to be paid pareÌ„tibus liberis to parents and children no mention being made in the Testament how farre these names should stretch For in the name of Parents Father Mother Grandsire and Grandmother And in the name of Children not only the Natural but the Adoptiue sonnes and daughters c. are vnderstanded The Pretor in this case answereth that they may be referred vnto al that may be comprehended within the forsaid Names Hereof the Lawiers gather a Rule that The thing that is spoken Generally must be taken Generally But the Law it selfe 〈◊〉 it not Now these Rules of the Lawiers witte and coâ—lection are not General but indefinite neither they in al places true but in certaine They are as some call them but Burchardica that is of the making of Burchardus the B. of wormes or as other say Brocardica that is to say meete Rules for such fine felowes emonge Lawiers as brokers are emong the Merchants They geue a shew of cunning learning as though he that vseth them boâ—h knewe and spake law but in deede none but triflers and pelters vse them except they prosecute them in their right sense For how sone maie it be Obiected by any man that if this Rule were true no man should be so hardie as to kill a lowse because the law of God saieth thou shalt not kil and M. Iewels lawe saieth that the thing that is spokeÌ„ generally must be takeÌ„ generally vpoÌ„ which obiection if M. Iewel would byd me staie a while and to vnderstand the lawe of God according to the Rule of reason and equity and that the killing only of man is forbydden such as proceâ—eth without lawful Authoritie or tendeth to the breache of Charitie c I would Replie not so wisely in dede as it should become a reasonable man but after as wise manner and fasshion as M. Iewel vseth and saie It is commonly said vbilex non distinguit stiguit nos distinguere non debemus â—here the law maketh no distinction theâ—â— ought we to make no distinction And therefore awaie with this Sophisticall distinction of lawful and vnlawful killing and goe to the Text it selfe whiche saith expressely Theu shalt not kil And so by this meane which M. Iewel foloweth an Heretike might be lousie by Authoritie nor only of the Law of God but the Rule of man except he would be so merciful as not to kil the vermyne but by some other waie put them awaie from hym Now if M. Iewel know not so much as that these Rules which he allegeth are not to be vnderstanded Generally although they sounde Generally why would he meddle with that which he dyd not knowe On the other side if he knâ—we wel inough that there are manie limitations vpon these rules why would he put that furth to be taken of his Reader absolutely and Generally which is not true but in certaine cases only â—ertainely â–ª y â— leaâ—ned in law wheÌ„ they speake of these very rules they restâ—ict theÌ„ many waies which I nede not rehearse vnto you being acquainted very well with the ciuile Lawiers or law Otherwyse if you were not you should do wel to reade Alciat de verboru singnifi Nicoâ—aus Euer ardus in his booke intitled Loct argumentorum legales And because one example against you to opeÌ„ your naughty dealing in this point is inough as also because the example is better â—erceiâ—ed of the coÌ„mon people then the rule I wil reherse y â— one most sensible case which the lawâ—ers theÌ„ selues do put to proue that y â— foresaid rules which you haue put furth for general must he limited Suppose y â— there is an act or law made by the prince y â— whosoeuer stryketh A man within his court and maketh him bleede shal leese his head or his hand for it Here the law is general in saying whosoeuer without exception of persons therfore as M. Iewel would haue it some it must be taken Generally It chaunceth then after this y â— some of y â— priuy ChaÌ„ber lieth sick of a pleurisy And the PhisitioÌ„ being at hand he counseleth y â— party to be let bloud And this being y â— most preseÌ„t remedy the Bargar cuÌ„meth stretcheth the vaine maketh the Gentleman bleed and loketh for a good reward I aske theÌ„ whether the Barbar shal leese his head or his hand for his labor And who seeth not that no Yet the law was general that whosoeuer strecheth c. yea but the Rule is not general that the thing that is generally spoken must be takeÌ„ generally For where y â— coÌ„mon wealth should take hurte by it if the lawe were vnderstanded generally as in the case of the Barbar it is not for the coÌ„mon wealthes profite that he an Innocent should leese either life or lymme there
And how is that It foloweth Loquitur Dominus ad Peâ—rum c. Our Lord speaketh to Peter I tel thee saith he that thou art Peter and vpon this Peter or Rocâ—e I vvil builde my Church and the gates of hel shâ—lnot ouercome it Vnto the vvil I geue the keyes of the kingdome of Heauens and those thinges that thou shalt bind in earth shal be bouÌ„d in the heauens also and vvhat soeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth shal be loosed also in the Heauens And vnto the same Peter after his 〈…〉 my sheepe By these wordes then it is manifest what is Original Head and Doctrine of our heauenly Maister that is to the forsaking of which Sainct Cyprian imputeth the Proceedinges of the Diuel and of Heresies Uerely no other than that which our Sauiour by the foresaid expresse Scriptures gaue to S. Peter But now heere ariseth a greaâ—â— doubt and question that S. Peter can not wel be the Heade because euery one of the Apostles was as great in Power as he And this in deede is the Argument that M. Iewel maketh out of S. Cyprian against the Supremacie Which if Sainct Cyprian hadde not espied and Answered then should M. Iewel easily be pardoned But now what an intolerable kinde of soule dealing is this to take an Obiection out of an Olde Father and either for Hast. Or Negligence Or Craftines Or Desperatnes to let go the right answer vnto it For concerning the Obiection Sainct Cyprian thus withstandeth it saiyng And although he gaue after his resurrection lyke povver vnto al his Apostles c. yet to declare vnitie he desposed by his Authority the Original of the same vnitie begining of one By the Obiection then it scemeth that no more accompt should be made of S. Peter then of the vest of the Apostles which seuerally was as greate in power as he But by the Aunswere made with this Aduersatiue Tamen Yet it is manifest that notwithstanding the equa litie among y â— Apostles S. Peter yet was y â— First and the Head among them For Christ disposed by his Authoritie saith S. Cyprian the Original not of vnitie as you mangle it M. Iewel but of the same vnitie which vndoubtedly was in the Apostles beginning of one which is S. Peter As in the Sentence folowing more manifestly appeereth to the further opening of S. Cyprians right meaning and your false dealing For the one halfe of the Sentence is this in deede the rest also of the Apostles vvere the same that Peter vvas endevved with like fellovvship honour and povver This half M. Iewel you rest vpon and build your Conclusion that one of them had no more Priuilege than an other And why interpreted you no further Is the sentence or Sense thinke you at an ende when you haue your purpose Doth not S. Cyprian Interpret Correct Amend or Determine it with an Adnersatiue yet saying least any maÌ„ should through his former words set lesse by S. Peter or his Chaire But yet the Original commeth from vâ—itie that the Church may be shevved to be one And what other thing is this to say but that notwithstanding it to be true that the Apostles were endewed with like honour power as S. Peter was yet no manne ought to gather heereof that there was no Order among them Or that one Bishope now hath as large and absolute Authoritie as an other But this rather must folowe that because schismes and Heresies doe grow apase vvhere no Original or Head is sought for or regarded And because it should be perceiued that the Church is One in that it coÌ„sisteth of one Head vnto whome al the rest were they neuer so high or felow like must be refer red therefore Christ by his Authoritie disposed the Original of that vnitie â— endewed S. Peter with a singular Prerogatiue that he shoulde be that One in the Church from whom whosoeuer departed should not be of the Church And note wel the Cause why the beginning must rise of One vt Ecclesia vna monstretur that the Church might be shevved to be one Why Should it not be One though in euery Diocese through the world euery seueral Bishop were Chief therein No surely by S. Cyprian it should not be But in that the Head therof is but one the vnitie of her doth folow necessarily How doth it folow Mary Whosoeuer holdeth not with this Head he is not in the Church and so must none remaine within her but the Catholike obedieÌ„t Christians How caÌ„ they but agree then al in one Head if they mind to coÌ„tinue in y â— Church wheras y â— departure from hâ—m is to take an other Church bisides that whose special marke is Vnitie in one Head This conclusion then standing that S. Peter was set by the Autoritie of Christ in the first place was that no special Priuilege trow you Or was he First to that intent oÌ„ly that in reckening vp the Apostles men should know where to begin Or that in their meetings together he should sitte first Or speake first Or subscribe first How simple things are these for the wisedome of God to think of And how litle auailable to the preseruing of the Churche in Unitie if no further Preeminence were geuen him And againe if the B. of Romes authoritie now as S. Peters was then were of no more force yet beeing of so much if other would sit before him Or speake before him in any Councel should they not be Offenders against the ordinance of God How can it be otherwise whereas he appointed by his Authoritie the Original of Vnitie to begin of One Suppose then that some one transgresseth this order who shal reproue him If none how vnreasonable is it to set a law and not to include therby an authority to punish the transgressor of the Law If any who more worthy of that Office then the Chief Bishope Ergo there was in S. Peter a proper Authoritie ioyned to that dignitie of his first place which M. Ie. grauÌ„teth vnto him by which he had power to coÌ„troll them y â— should or wold â—esist that Primacie of his in how smal thing so euer it consisted And if there were such Authority Ergo some special Pâ—â—â—lege of Binding or Losing which no other of the Apostles had Except ye wil be so mad as to thinke that in coÌ„trolling of a fault committed against any Excellent Person his Inferiour should be Iudge in the mater and bind or loose at his wil or discretion I leaue it therefore as most manifest that notwithstanding the Apostles were equal in felowshipp of honour and power â–ª with S. Peter yet the Original of 〈◊〉 was appointed by our Saluiour himselfe to begin of S. Peter only and none other And this his preeminence make you it as litle as you can requiring A Proportional Authoritie to be graunted vnto him for the defense therof against al disdaine or disobedience that might be procured or
of Christs entring into his passion and that done to receiue bread and wine in remembrance thereof and to be thankeful therefore he promised to come hymselfe and set thinges in order and therefore such orders and maners as the whole Church hath and doth throughly vse about the celebration of the Mysteries are to be thought to haue come from the Apostles Of these words then also As for the rest vvhen I come my selfe I vvil dispose it maie with good reason be gathered that the Apostle did prescribe orders and rules to be obserued concerning Persons Time and Place with other Circumstances And that the Institution of Christ stretched no further than to Consecration Oblation and Participation of his pretious bodie And that one alone or manie togeather to receaue was not by Christ apointed but left to his Apostles to be ordered But it foloweth in M. Iewel that S. Augustine in this place speaketh not one word of any number But only of the time of Receauing whether it might seme conuenient to minister the Communion after Supper You be verie bold either with S. Augustine or with your Reader Doe ye cal y â— speaking only of the time where the question of tyme is not at al spoken of Reade the place who wil and if there be any such question intreated as M. Iewel reporteth although I haue many Arguments to the contrarie yet wil I say he is an honest and true man In the fifthe chapiter of that epistle these questions are mentioned whether vpon good friday Oblation and Sacrifice should be done twise in the morning first and then after supper Item whether the people should first keepe their faste then eate that daies meale and last of all haue the Oblation and Sacrifice made Or first keepe their faste and then haue the Sacrifice made and last of al go to their meales meat To which questioÌ„s his answer is that euery man should in these points do as y e vse of the church is vnto which he cummeth Because ther is nothing in them against either Faith or good maners In the next chapiter folowing out of which D. Harding toke his testimony the question doubt is not whether one might Offer or Receaue in the morning or at euening which perteineth to tyme but whether he that had eaten the same daie before might afterwardes either Offer or Receaue the bodie of Christe whiche is A Question concerninge the state of the Persons only And not the qualitie of Tyme Unto which his answer is that it hath pleased y â— holy Ghost that for the honour of so great a Sacrament the bodie of our Lord should first enter into the mouth of a Christian before external and carnal meates Now because the heretike might say as some in these daies vphold where is it in al the Scripture that a man should come fasting to the communion And whi might not one if he would receiue after Supper as the Apostles dyd or in the Supper tyme as the Corinthians dyd S. Augustine meeteth with this obiection alleging that sentence which M. Harding to like effect vsed and saying That in vvhat order the Sacrament should be receiued Christ gaue no precept thereof but left that office to his Apostles Let M. Iewel now defend hymselfe if he can and proue that he hath not falsly reported of S. Augustine in the place of the Epistle ad â—anuarium saying of hym that he speaketh not one word of the number of CoÌ„municantes but only of the tyme of Receauing That he speaketh only of the time of Receauing it is false For these be his wordes Saluator non praecepit quo deinceps ordine sumeretur vt Apostolis per quos dispositurus erat ecclesiam seruaret hunc locum Our Sauiour gaue no commaundemeÌ„t in vvhat order it should be Receaued to the intent he might leaue that mater to his Apostles by vvhom he vvould dispose his Church Hereof I gather this Argument The apointing of Order how thinges should be don doth extend itself to more than apointing only of the time in which it is to be done But of the Authoritie left with the Apostles to set an Order in Receauing of the Sacrament S. Augustine doth speake in his epistle 〈…〉 speaketh only of the tyme of receauing S. Gregorie abused In the communion As the people saied the Lordes praier altogether as it is noted by S. Gregorie so they Receaued al togeather Are ye not ashamed so to say that it is noted so by S. Gregorie we haue I thinke his epistles in the same priâ—t as you haue them and y â— effect of that epistle out of which you haue gathered this note vpon S. Gregorie is that he answereth certaine persons which thought it was vnmeete that he should goâ— aboute to keepe vnder the Church of Constantinople but his owne Church And of the Pater noster he saith Dominica oratio apud Graecos ab omni populo dicitur apud nos autem a solo Sacerdote Our Lordes praier is said among the Grecians of al the people but with vs it is saied by the Priest alone Here then I appose you againe M. Iewel was the Masse of S. Gregories tyme a Communion or Priuate Masse â–ª for you make an oppositioÌ„ betwen these two thinges If it were a priuate masse then must you yeld and subscribe because it is then found by your own confession within the first six hundred yeres If it were a Communion how say you that the people said the coÌ„munion praier al together as it is noted by S. Gregorie wheras you see him so plainely to testifie that in Rome the Priest alone dyd saie our Lordes Praier Yea say you perchaunce but it was otherwise emonge the Greekes and in their Communion the people saied the Lords praier al together Yea but S. Gregorie noteth not only such point and he speaketh not of their communion or not CoÌ„munion So that you be exceding much to blame for abusing the names of holy Doctours so vainely and making them to be compted to thinke that which they doe not speake S. Cyprian abused The Catholâ—ke Faith is that the Churche is not bound by the vertue of Christes Institution to deliuer the Sacrament vnder forme of wine vnto the people The hereâ—ikes repiâ—e against it and saie that by Christes Institution the people should Receiue the Cup also But how wil this be proued By many old Fathers But In steede of many for shortnes sake to allege but one S. Cyprians wordes in this mater be verie plaine Remember then what the mater is You must proue out of S. Cyprian that the people should Receaue not in the one kinde alone of Bread but of wine also And if you M. Iewel wil not remember it yet I praie thee gentle Reader to marke diligently whether he proue any such thing out of S. Cyprian Some ther be that in sanctifiyng the cup and deliuering it
is not the voice that souÌ„deth in the eares of God but the â—artines and denotioÌ„ of mind For so they shal not laugh the Bishops and ministers of the church to scorn if perchaunce they shel perceiue them to cal vpoÌ„ God either vvith barbarouse and incongrae Latine or els not to vnderstand the vvords that they speak either to point them out of order To such therfore S. Austine directeth his talke in y â— place maketh no exhortatioÌ„ at al to Priestes to learne their latine tongue better And why should M. Iew. dissemble y â— true persons of whom s. Augustine there speaketh I wil tel you There is not a place more plainer than this if it be considered to proue y â— it was not thought in S. Augustines time so necessary a mâ—tâ—r that al thinges in the Churche should be donne in a knowen Tongue as now it is auouched to be For if the Publike Seruice was euerie where executed at that tyme in the vulgar Tongue or in a knoweÌ„ one to the common people although it were not their vulgar how is it possible that the Bishopes themselues should be to seeking in the right pronouncing pointing and vnderstanding of that whiche they openly said in the Church The Syr Iohn Lacklatines of which there is much speaking among the brothers they haue ben such an occasion of ruine and perdition to the worldly wise as none hath ben greater For the euil life of Priestes although it be A greate Argument vnto them that the Religion is not effectual which hath such holy ons in it yet whiles they see in euerie kinde of Protestation or Confession many such to be found of whoÌ„ they may wel inough be ashamed they temper their Iudgement and wil not vtterly condemne a Religion for this cause only that some Professours thereof be wicked But when they see Publike Seruice to be saied of them which vnderstand it not and for them which are also as ignorant this seemeth to be so absurde that they can not conceaue howe the Spirite of God should directe their doeinges which see and suffer yea and defend that Publike Seruice maie be done in a tong which the vulgar people doe not vnderstand And in this point they are so much the more vehement because they see how all the new Gospellers folow a contrary waie and vse no lerned Tounge at all in their Ordinary Seruice but the vulgar and knowen Tounge of the Countrie where they pitch So that the Protestantes are compted herein to worke so sincerely to speake so reasonably and to chalenge so inuincibly that thousandes of the worldly wise whiles they stand in their owne iudgement fal in deede into euerlasting perâ—ition by the iudgement of the blessed and lerned Fathers For if al thinges must be don in the Church so as the people do vnderstand what is praied how should that case euer be heard of in the Primitiue Churche where some Bishoppes vnderstode not what they praied in the open Church Maie we think that any of them vnderstoode not the vulgare speache of his couÌ„trie That is verie incredible because vnto the high office of Ruling and teaching the whole People he should not be chosen which could not wel be vnderstanded of the people But maie we rather thinke that the publike Seruice was in a lerned toung sometymes not perfitly knowen of the Bishope himselfe like as vnto the vulgar people it was not knowen Of this there is no doubt Because in praieng to God deuotion and not eloquntion is required and because he might haue a good grace of preaching in his natural tongue vnto the people which yet had very simple vnderstanding of any Greeke or latine writinges And because it is plaine by S. Augustine that some such were in his tyme. How then you wil saie is Ignorance in a Bishope to be suffered I say not so neither on the other side I thinke that al is marred except euery man woman and childe maie haue the Bible in the vulgar Tounge Or that no Tounge is to be suffered in the Church of God but that which is the common and knowen tounge of the Countrie But as there is a difference betwene wincking and staring so is there a discreation and iudgement to be vsed in this mater of Tounges of which we speake And S. Augustine aloweth it not that a Bishope should not vnderstand the Latin tounge in which he praieth neither yet doth he crie out against that lacke of theirs requiring that al Publike Seruice should straitwaies be in the vulgare Tounge For after he had told it how some Bishopes praie in false and barbarouse Latine and vnderstaÌ„d not what they praie he addeth further least you should think hym to alowe Ignorance and saieth Non quia ista mâ—â—me corrigenda sint vt populus ad id quod plane intelligit dicat Amen I would that the freshe and trym Scholers comming lately from their EloqueÌ„t Lessons should not laugh y â— Bishops to skorne which speake in their praiers false Latin not because these thinges vvere not to be amended in the Bishopes to the entent the people might ansvver Amen to that vvhich they clerelie vnderstand as who should say I alow not their lacke of knowledge And it were wel that they dyd so speake as the people vnderstand them Sed tamen pie toleranda sunt ab eis qui didicerunt vt sono in soro sic voto in ecclesia benedici but yet these lackes are charitably to be borne vvithal of them vvhich haue lerned that as thinges are vvel said in court before Iudges by sounde of voice so are they vvel saied in the Church by vovve of minde Of which wordes I gather that as he would wishe it better y â— the Bishops Priestes of the Church should so speak as the people might vnderstand yet he would not haue the Seruice of the church vtterly chaunged from the Latine tonge not vnderstanded to the vulgar tounge which nor Priest nor peole could be ignorant of But euen those waÌ„tes of some Bishopes and Priestes in the true Reading Pointing and Understanding of their Publike Praiers he would to be charitably borne and suffered vpon this consideration that although in the eares of men their wordes sound not plaine and good yet in y â— sight of God the good affection of their harte is alowed Now if S. Augustine had ben of the Protestantes mind he would not haue takeÌ„ the mater so quietly but with great Stomake would haue said awaie with this murmuring of praiers not vnderstanded awaie with this Latine and Strange tounge which the Priest hymselfe knoweth not what it meaneth Awaie with this lip labour Let vs haue the Bible turned into the vulgar tounge let euery man come to the Church and singe Psalmes to the Lord let the people vnderstand what is said let vs do as the Apostle commaundeth vs let vs speake with tounges and so furth with a great tale out
then one or two Relations yet in the descending from the superiour to the inferiour there might appeâ—re a shew of likelyhod But this Logike passeth in deede for it is M. Iewels that Paulinus whiche was borne three hundred yeres after Ireneus vseth the worde principalis in this sense Ergo Principalitas of which Ireneus speaketh stoode not in the Bishope that professed Christe but in the Emperour that was an heathen Thus thou maise see Indifferent Reader what fowle shifts and deuises and lyes M. Iewel had made to turne awaie the Authoritie of Ireneus that it should not be taken for the Principalitie of the Church of Rome But his conclusion is notable To be shorte saieth he If the Church of Rome would nowe faithfully keepe the Traditions and Doctrine of the Apostles we would fraÌ„kely yeld her all that honour that Ireneus geueth her but she hath shaken of the yoke of Christ. O good men It was then by likelihod for pure loue of God and godlines that you are departed from the See of Rome There were so fewe Sacramentes and those of so litle effecte there was so litle Fasting Watching Praying so litle chastitie Discipline and Order that you could not abyde to lyue so loosely but would needes take an yoke vpon you to keepe your bodies low by carying your yokeâ—elowes about the Countries with you beâ—ides other burdens And to keepe your spirits humble by obeying neither spiritual nor temporal Iurisâ—iction For the Saxons in Germanie the Hugonots in France the Guses in Flaunders and Brabant which of late because the yoke was not heauie inough vpoÌ„ their shoulders haue I can not tel for what penaÌ„ce sake made themselues great fardels and packes of Church goodes and sweate againe with the carriage of them awaie were not they and are not these Cusson germans vnto you But you wil do more for Christs sake than this You wil be content I perceaue to go euen to Rome it selfe vpon certaine conditions And what are they Forsoth if y â— church of Rome would keepe the Traditions doctrine of the Apostles then â—o you wold frankly honour it And is this possible Traditions you knowe are verities and orders not written in the Scriptures but deliuered without writing And is there any thing which you wil fâ—ankely beare except it be writen in expresse Scriptures Surely I can 〈◊〉 beleue it yet if ye would vpon conditions geue y â— honour to the Church of Rome which S. Ireneus absolutely gaue without any such cautels you are not so vnlike to be a Papist as I thought you were For let vs suppose it that as you would with so al the Traditions and Doctrine of the Apostles were faithfully kept in Rome would ye frankly yeld her al honour that Ireneus geueth her â—elme then if 〈…〉 or any other Heretikes would deuise 〈◊〉 of their owne trouble the Church of England with them wold ye go to Rome for the mater and aske of the Ciuile Estate there â–ª Or the Emperor if he were a heathen Or of the persequutours or Ennemies of the Church yf such felowes had dominion there wold ye aske of them what should be thought of the Olde Heretiques newly vpstarted Yf ye would go to them that haue no Religion to 〈◊〉 counsel of them about For concerning plaine beâ—â—sies we are now so accustomed to read them heare them that thei are not straunge vâ—to vs but when hypocrisie is ioyned with heresie Or wheÌ„ veritie is disseÌ„bled through â—eare or 〈◊〉 there we are desirous to haue the partie examined And conâ—â—reâ—ned either â—laâ—â—ly to confesse his hereâ—â—e Or faithfully to stand with y â— veritie Shortly therfore to you M. Iewel Yf you would honour the Church of Rome in like sorte as S. Iraeneus chargeth al the faithful to doe how 〈◊〉 ye geue to the â—â—nges of England and that by the â—â—â—esse â—criptures as you interprete them such Supremacie in maters eccleâ—â—â—â—ical as can not stand possibly with the going to Rome in any question of Faith For by Aet of Parlement and your owne othâ—â— and the practise of the Realme there is no 〈◊〉 power that hath to do with the Church of England And therefore were Rome neuer so perâ—â—â—â— no greatâ—r Principalitie could be attributed to the Church of Rome than the â—ing of England hath whom you byhold to be 〈…〉 On the other side if ye wil defend stil that which hitherto ye haue set â—â—rth by Lawes Othes Sermons 〈…〉 c. What an Hypocrite are you so to speake as though ye would as frankelie yeld to the Church of Rome principal honour as â—renâ—us both earâ—estly require it that for the 〈…〉 al Churches 〈◊〉 for trial of true doctrine resorte vnto it 〈…〉 you of these daies haue them in coÌ„tempt dishonour therfore you speak of no more then y â— TeÌ„ples built in their remembraÌ„ce And yet this very building of Temples in the honour of Martyrs it seemeth not that you like very wel wheras vnto any one of your so stinking a cuÌ„pany of Martyrs we hearâ— of no groâ—nd y â— you haue meatâ—â— out as yeâ— to laiâ— therein y ◠〈◊〉 of any Pulpit House or 〈◊〉 of your Champions Now to the sense of S. 〈◊〉 wordes Vvhy do they not goe to the Marâ—â—â— Vvhy 〈◊〉 they not to the Church That is â–ª as you M. Iewel vnderstand him 〈◊〉 Receiue they at home and not at Church But this is not S. Hieroms meaning For he reproueth not their Receiuing at home but their Receiuing at home the next day that folowed their nightes pleasure taking of their Wiues Marke that Circumstance and you shal quickly perceiue that you are deceiued or haue deceiued For take the whole Sentence with you I knovv saith S. Hierome â—hat this Custome is in Rome that the faithful do receiue daily the Body of Christ. And what say you than to that Custome He Answereth Qâ—â—d nec reprehend◠〈…〉 which thinge I neither reproue nor alowe for euery man abundeth in his owne sense What shal we say then to this case If a man be sufficiently prepared and 〈◊〉 the SacrameÌ„t in his owne house at home and neuer goe to the 〈…〉 for it perteyned not to the question of 〈…〉 of which he there consâ—â—eth Yet M. Iewel thinketh that S. Hierome Answereth this foresaied question and that he maketh a ful determination thereof with an ernest reprouf of the parties offending against it As if S. Hierom should say to the Romaiâ—ts what meane you to doubt in this plaine mater Or why should ye thinke that Receauing at home were lawfull Do ye not know that the Lordes supper is â— Communion and must not be taken of one alone Why dare ye not goe to the Temples of the Martyrs â–ª Are ye afraied of 〈◊〉 Why goe ye not to the Church Is not that the proper place to Receaue the Communion in Such a Comment would M. Iewel make vpon
saith Vvhole Christ is not conteined vnder ech kind Sacramentally For he speaketh of the representation only which is made to our senses by exterâ—al words Signes and not of y â— thing it selfe and substance of the Sacrament which is apprehended by Faith Now that Alexander was not of this mind which M. Iew. would make him to be of that whole Christ should not be receaued vnder ech kind though whole Christ were not signified by the sound of the wordes of Consecration in ech kind it is manifest by the next article in him where he concludeth that Christus integer Deus homo est sub specie Panis Vvhole Christ God and Man is vnder the forme of Bread And both sayinges are true that vvhole Christ is not vnder ech kind â–ª if ye consider only the Signe of the wordes that are spoken or the thinges that are shewed for in saying this is my bodie no mention is made of bloud And againe that vvhole Christ God and man is vnder the forme of Bread if ye consider the mater Really Alexander therfore speaketh no otherwise in this point then it becummeth A faithful and Catholike man to do And M. Iewel doth no otherwise than he is wont to do but otherwise surely than becumneth an honest and lerned man specially hauinge no neede to alleage any Scholemen and lesse neede to corrupt them when he allegeth them Polidorus Uergilius abused S. Cyprian calleth the Church of Rome Ecclesiam principalem vnde vnit as Sacerdet alis exorta est the principal Church from vvhence the Vnitie of Priestes hath spronge Out of which testimonie M. Iewel gathereth A force as it were of two Argumentes that might be made the one in that it is called Ecclesia principalis the principal or chief Churche the other because it foloweth vnde vnitas Sacordotalis exorta est whiche words D. Harding doth interpret thus from vvhence the vnitie of Priestes is spronge M. Iewel thus froÌ„ whence the vnitie of the Priesthood first began In which his Interpretation there is a plaine falsehod and craftines For in repeting the wordes and in writing of them so as if they were D. Hardings it becummed hym to deliuer them furth in the same forme as he â—ound them in D. Harding Then whereas it is not al one to say the vnitie of Priesthood sprange from Rome and the vnitie of Priesthod began first at Rome for there may be springs two or three in one place and although the water issue not out first at the lowest yet the lowest of the three maie be the chiefe head vnto al the riuers beneth M. Iewels intent was not simple to cast in this word first into the sentence as though the question were not whether the Chife Prieste in all the world were at Rome but whether the first Priest in al the world began at Rome Betwene which two propositions there is a great difference But what sayth M. Iewel to these wordes Vnde vnitas Sacerdotalis exorta est from whence the vnitie of Priesthoode first begaÌ„ as he englisheth it for a vaÌ„tage For that these words seme for to weigh much I thinke it good herein to heare the Iudgement of some other man that may seeme Indifferent Why should Polidore Uergile be Indifferent He lyued not fiftie yeres sens he was a Collectour to y â— Bishop of Rome and therefore to you not Indifferent And to vs on the other side not Indifferent because this very booke de Inuenâ—orâ—â—â—s rerum is condemned by the General Councel at Trent But you haâ—e fouÌ„d somewhat in him by likelihod which maketh for you that you esteeme of hym so wel And what is that I praie you We aske you for the Answer to S. Cyprians words you bring in Polidore to expound them but what wil ye conclude of Polidore That This commendation of which S. CypriaÌ„ speaketh was geauen by S. Cyprian to the Church of Rome in respect of Italie and not in respect of the whole world Whether this be so or no Polidors owne wordes shal trie it In his fourth booke the sâ—xth Chapiter his purpose was to shew of whom first the Order of Priesthood was Instituted And he proueth that Christ hym selfe was the first maker of Priestes Then both it folowe in hym Aâ— posâ— Chrisâ—um Petrus in Sacerdotio praerâ—gatiuaâ— habuisâ—e dicitur quòd primus in Apostolorum ordine eius Sacrosancti Collegij Caput fuisset â–ª Quapropter D. Cyprianus epist. 3. aâ— CorneliuÌ„ Cathedram Petri PrincipaleÌ„ vocat But after Christ Peter is said to haue had the prerogâ—â—iue in priesthood because he vvas the first in the revv of the Apostles and head of that holy College â—herefore S. Cyprian in his third epistle to Cornelius calleth the Chaire or Sec of S. Peter the 〈◊〉 or principal 〈◊〉 then this touching any woâ—ds of S. Câ—prian if any man can there find iâ— Polidore I wil leâ—se my right hand for 〈◊〉 and neuer write hereafter against any heretiâ—e but the Booke is common the place is intelligible and my eyes and vnderstanding serueth me so wel that I am sure Polidore in that place expoundeth not these wordes of S. Cyprian â—nde â—nitas Sacerdot alis exorta est What Impudencie then is it in M. Iewel for that these words seme to weigh much to bring furth the Iudgement of Polidore a man that may seme to be Indifferent whereas they are not at all in Polidore Polidorus Virgilius saieth he expouÌ„deth the same words of S. Cyprian Dare ye say he expoundeth them whereas he hath not them He bringeth in S. Cyprian to proue that the See of S. Peter was principal but of Vnitas Sacerdotalis the vnitie of Priesthood Upon which wordes you made hast to shewe his exposition he maketh no mention He saieth in his owne wordes not in S. Cyprians that the order of Priesthood can not be sated to haue grovven first from the Bishope of Rome onlesse vve vnderstand it only by Italie for Priesthood was rightly instituted at Hierusalem but that the Commendation geauen by S. Cyprian to the Church of Rome was geauen in respect only of Italy and not in respect of the whole world he saied it not nor intended it The Order also of Priesthood and vnitie of Priesthood are two thinges In the Order is considered the Author and effect of that Sacrament In the Unitie is considered the preseruation and Gouernement of that Order Of the Order it selfe and where Priesthod first began Polidore doth speake Of the vnity and of the Relation which all Priestes should haue to their chiefe head and Gouernour S. Cyprian doth speake and Polidore saieth nothing The Order began at Dierusalem and not at Rome The vnity I wil not say begaÌ„ at Rome but after y â— s. Peter had by his martyrdoÌ„ there takeÌ„ ful possession of that See then was it seen where the Principal Church in al the world was and to
what begynning al thinges should be referred and in what vnitie they should be preserued Hath not M. Iewel then done very sincerely to allege Polidore so farre and wyde from the meaning of Polidor I would there were some man so indifferent as M. Iewel taketh Polidore to be to Iudge betwene hym and vs whether he hath not shamefully abused the Later writers Of M. Iewels Contradictions HYtherto by many Examples I haue proued it y â— M. Iewel hath not vnderstanded other men now wil I shew it by a fewe Arguments that he doth not wel vnderstand hymselfe And no maruel truly if in speaking so many words he hath not remembred euery word Or if in coâ—eting to saue his honestie for the present place he saie and vnsay againe like A man that were not sure yet what to byde by But because his Frindes and Felowes wil thinke this incredible that out of his smooth month doctrine squared by the rule of the Scriptures Fathers CouÌ„cels any thing should procede hacked slittered therefore wil I geaue an occasion to the Indifferent to Beware of the dubâ—le tongue and mynd in one and the selfe same 〈…〉 The Receiuing with Companie is no substantial pâ—rt of Christes Institution â–ª Ergo we are not bounde therein to folow the Example of Christ. First this Antecedent iâ— false and if it were no part of the substaÌ„ce of Christes Institution Yet we are neuerthelesse bound to his Example because he hath commaunded vs so to doe Here in this place M. Iewel you are of the mynd that there is a difference betwene the Institution of Christ and the Example of Christ. Otherwise your saying were very folishe As by which this only is imported that it were no part oâ— Christs InstitutioÌ„ yet are we neuerthelesse bound to his Institution Which maketh a plaine contradiction if that by Institution and Example you meane but one thing An other thing that I note here is that you say we are bound to Christes Example although the thing which is to be done were not of his Institution What say ye then to washing of feete for which you haue the expresse words of our Sauiour in the Gospel If I sayth he your Lord and Master haue vvashed your feete you also ought to vvash one the others feete For I haue geauen an Example vnto you that as I haue done so likevvyse that ye also doe What say you then M. Iewel to this example of our Sauiour shal it be folowed or no You Answer That this Obiection of washing of feete is common and hath ben often Answered And in the same page The wasshing of feete was neither Institution of Christ nor any part of the Sacrament nor Specially apointed to be done by the Apostles nor the breache thereof euer deemed Sacrilege To let passe the manifest lye which here you make that Christ apointed not washing of â—eete to be done by the Apostles I marke this only for the present y â— you labour with al your wit to proue that ye are bound to keepe y â— Example of Christ. Reconcile me then I praie you these two places And tel vs how it may stand togeather that we are bouÌ„d to Christs example in that which is not of the Substance of Christs Institution And yet that you may freely as ye do let go washing of feete in your Congregation because it was not Christes Institution In the Primitiue church this order of sending the SacrameÌ„t to them that were departing this world was thought expedient not for the Sicke For they in their health receiued daily Ergo if in health they needed or vsed that daily sustenance was it not prouided for them in their sicknes Yeas ye confesse so much And therefore you say And in their sicknesse had the Sacrament Ordinarily sent home vnto them How say ye then euen now that this order concerning the necessarie vitaile the Sacrament was not thought expedient for the sicke Except you know that a man may be in sicknesse and yet not sicke But gâ—e ye forwarde and make an end of your â—ale If the necessarie vitaile was not for y â— sicke for whoÌ„ was it then Not for the sicke c. but for persons ExcoÌ„municaâ—e c. Uery wel How long wil you tarie in this mynd Ye amend it within xx lynes folowing For thus ye remember your selfe better Howbeit I confesse sometimes it was otherwise vsed We take your confession that you know not wel where to staie For diuiding as it were al the Faithful Into Sicke and Excommunicate And subdiuiding the Sicke into them that were either in health either in Sicknes You leâ—t none but Persons Excommunicate for whom the necessarie vitaile called viaticum should serue How be it ye confesse it was Sometimes otherwise vsed and so it must necessarely folow that it was not for the Excommunicate only How these thinges agree I doe but aske you the question If there had ben in it any shew of trueth M. Harding as he is eloquent would haue laied out al the circumstancies when this strange errour first began where and how longe it continued who wrote against it And by whom and in what Councel it was condemned Verely this greate Silence declareth some want See how ernest the man is to haue al Circumstances declared But I trow he wil not tary stil in this minde For when D. Harding as reason is asked when the Latine Seruice began in England and when the English ceased for Heretikes say y â— in the primitiue Church al publike praier was in the knowen and vulgare Tongue And the Catholikes thinke that some token then or Monument should be extant of so generall A mater M. Iewel with open mouthe replieth O what folie is this Who is hable to shew any Boke writen in English a thowsand veres agoe Or if it could be shewed yet who were hable to vnderstand it Loe now it is foly to require but some litle signe of the begynning or ceasing of a publike and common mater but in an other place he thinketh it wisely spoken for he speaketh it hym selfe to demaund particularly of diuerse CircuÌ„stancies when where how who by whoÌ„ and in what Councell errours began or appeared That certeine godly persons both men and women in time of persequution or of sicknes or of other necessitie receaued the Sacrament in their houses it is not denied Ergo Receauing at home is not reprouable for which there are to be found the Examples of Godly persons both men â—nd women This maner of receauing at home was not lauful for the Laiemen For it was abolished by godly Bishops in general CouÌ„cel You belye the Councel vnto which you referre vs. For of Receauing at home it speaketh no one word but If any person â–ª saith it be proued not to haue receiued in the Church and not to
be easily returned backe vpon them againe In making of which I thinke in dede that the Author thereof was no borower although there hath bene already so much inuented and imagined agaynst Catholikes as more by any occasion could not be vttered Let him therefore alone haue the praise of it for deuising mainteining so vnsensible an Obiection as neither hath bene vsed of former Heretikes though they sought all meanes how to deface vs neither can be reprochful vnto the Catholikes which knowe that nothing is newe vnder the Sonne And that al Scriptures and Doctoâ—rs and Writers are oures which make for the Defense or Sense of the true Faith Unto your charge therefore M. Iewel I doe not laye it whether you haue taken out of the Mâ—gdeburgenses or any Notebookes of other men that which you vtter but with your Appealing vnto the first six hundred yeares and your Refusing of the Authorities within the same yeares And with your Excoursing into al Ages for witnesses And for your Abusing of the witnesses of al Ages with these so principal maters I burthen you Whâ—ch if it seeme light vnto you I do not care for I make no accompt vpon it that your selfe should haue leisure or respect to my smal writinges but that other might thinke better of it I haue prouided by special noting of such mater in which M. Iewel might be taken for no great Iewel when al is knowen In gathering and setting furth of which if I seâ—me to haue dâ—ne otherwise than wel I am ready either to defende it either to confesse it Assured for al that that there is no one Pâ—otâ—rtant in al England that shal be able to disproue my Obiections and trusting that in the Iudgement of the Catholiqâ—â—s I shal not much neede to craue any pardon And now as from y ◠〈◊〉 through the Booke I haue alwaies appealed to thâ— Indifferent Reader so now to conclude I say vnto him and desire of him that he neither fauour Iewel because of the Procedinges nor hate Rastel because of his Religion but Iudge according vnto that which is alleged proued whether M. Iewel be not that Felow of whom the whole coâ—Ì„trie ought to BEVVARE Fol. 1. Fol. 22. Fol. 40. Fol. â—3 Fol. 9â— Fol. 104. Fol. 123. Fol. 129. Fol. 137. Fol. 146. Fol. 163. Fol. â—08 Fol. 216. Fol. 229. Fol. 233. Mountebanks â—or the Body Mountebankes for y â— Soule The effeâ—t of the Mount-bankes drugges 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 ProuisioÌ„ of meat câ—st away Beastlinesse 〈…〉 ☞ Specially to be amended â— Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 12. Eph. 4. Cant 6. 1. Cor. 1. Luc. 11. Da. 7. Luc. 1. The churche is one by Faith Ephe. 4. The churche caÌ„ not erre or faile The churche is allwaies one and true by reason In what things the Church is not allwais one Luc. 24. Let vs not be vnbeleuing but faithfull Ioan â–ª 20. Carnall iudgment Marci 6. Repâ—nâ— Or play no more tâ—e wanton Or lerne more wit Or Anâ—â—er the Obiection The firâ—â— D. Har Example Ie. pa. 75 Ra. Ie. fo 75. The ij D Hard. Fol. 36. Iew. 112. Ra. The iij. Iew. 116. Ra. The iiij Iew. 140 The v. Iew. 217. The vâ— Iew. â—89 Ra. One place for all let M. Iew. or any other Answer it The firste question Faith or â—o Faith Faithe Rom. 10. The ij question Lerned you it of y â— quicke or the deade Of the Quicke The iij. Question Folowed you their Authority or no The iiij Question What are they Here let al the heretikes in y â— world ioin wyth the Papists if they can August ad HonoratuÌ„ cap. 14. de vtilit ate credendi An euideÌ„t Demonstration to perswade vs to beleue De ciuit Dei lib. 22. Cap. 8. De Vtilit cred Cap. 14. â—anich August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August CoÌ„fer and consider whether y â— vpstart he retikes be not like the old August Who hath comâ—eÌ„ded Christ vnto M. Iew. but the report of this age in which himselfe hath liued Iew. 242 Sticking vpon viij yeres Did he think you perswade wyth the Emperor to geaue y â— Title Or with the Pope to receiue it Or how bring you Arabia Rome here togeather Iew. 192. Wretched craking Ra. Ser. 137. de temp Iew. 192. Ra. Nothing wonne or lost Absurdities M. Iew. putteth Truthe within a Circle of yeres Here lâ—t any Protestant geaue a Reason of his faith How the heretikes do apointe 1. questioÌ„s 2. Order of disputing 3. Maner of Authorities 4. Age of the witnesses all at pleasure but nothing after right and reson Reasonable Demaundes Ambr. lib. 5. Ep. 33. A most reasonable condition Iewel 260 195. 150. 199 175. 177 10. Com â— Amos Iew. 19â— In the Chapiter of Lyes Iew. Ra. Iew. Ra Iew. 175. Eckius in locis Com. Durand lib. 4. ca. 1. Nicolaus Lyra. Thomas in 1. ad Cor. 14. 177. Ra. Iew. 175. Iew. 104 Ra. M. Iew. belieth his witnesses M. Iew. leaueth S Augustine c. â— foloweth Nicolas Lyra Absurde 104 M. Iew. belieth himselfe Ra. Iâ—w 6. This is worse than muÌ„mery The flowers of the new Gospell Iew. â— â— â–ª 116. Iew. 140. M. Iew. special Exception against the last ix C. yeres proueth that he would be ordered by the vi C. y â— went before Iew. 7. 8. 9. 12. 233. 264. 66. and. 223. Auncient Authorities denied by M. Iewel Hist. Eccl. li. 8. ca. 5. Harding Fol. 45 Iew. 136. Flateringly Ra. Iew. Ra. Iew. Ra. Iew. 13â— Ra. Consider M. Iew. listing and imagining against y â— Storie whiche he promised not to disgrace Such is M. Iew. wâ—en him listeth â—useb Ecc. â—isi lib. 2. ca. 17. et 17 Iew. 10. S. Chrisostomes Liturgie deniÌ„ed Ra. M. Iew. hasty in his iudgement All these things are found in S. Chrisostomes Liturgâ—e Whether are they also in y â— neâ— CoÌ„munioÌ„â—okes in which the forme of al Antiquity they say is expressed M. Pointz ca 7. Iew. 10. Ra. M. Iew. answered by M. Iewel â–ª Dionysius Alexandr Maximus Pachymeres Dionysius Carâ—hus The sprite of the new Gospell is a spoiler Erasmus iustly repreheÌ„ded In CeÌ„sura de libris ad Quirinum Hier. lib. 1. aduers Pelag. Iew â–ª 10 Uanitie Contention Iew. 10. M. Iew. requited to staÌ„d vnto AuncieÌ„t witnesses UnwriteÌ„ Uerities Godfather Abrenuntiation Signe of the Crosse. Oile â–ª halovving of the vvater Chrisome Confirmation Incensing Singing of Psalmes Reading of Lessons Putting out of the vnvvorthy Orders of Officies Hymâ—es VVashing of handes Consecration Shevving of the Sacrament CoÌ„munion Are these signes and tokens of a CoÌ„munion after y e last maner of the English church Or of A Popishe Masse halovving of Oyle Reseruation Geuing of Orders Monkes Professio Signe of the Crosse. Shearing Inuesting DistinctioÌ„ of places in burying Solemnities in Funerals Praying for the Soules departed Pouring of Oyle Iâ—dge now who soâ—uer wil The ioyâ—ing of the issâ—e with M. Iew. greg ho. 34 Orig. Ho. 1 in Ioan
say or thinke that the very name should be the very thing emong the Diuines Yet who so considereth diligently M. Iewels maner behauiour of writing shal sone perceiue that he so handeleth the mater as though he were a Grammarian onely or a Rhethorician and not a Diuine and as though in dede he passed not vpon the very Thinges so that he might haue the very wordes that could serue his turne For which cause he hath furnished himself with Testimonies and Phrases inough For y â— church Against the Churche For Custome Against Custome For Fathers Against Fathers For Councels Against Councels For Receiuing at home Against receiuing at home For Receiuing in One kinde Against Receiuing in Oâ—e For Receiuing alone Against Receiuing alone For S. Peters Pricipalitie Against S. Peters principalitie For equalitie of Bishops Against equalitie of Bishops For Distinctions against Distinctions For Arguments taken of Authoritie Against Arguments taken of Authoritie And so truth in many thinges moe which I haue shewed partly in the Second Booke partly in this Chapiter of Contradictions And were more to be shewed if time or occasion required But now to an other mater A Note Concerning M. Iewels Lies ANd what other mater might that be For I haue already discouered his vnreasonablenes and falshed by so many waies that it may seeme both that I am at an End of finding any more ObiectioÌ„s and he of ministring any more Occasions For as concerning his Lies of which I eyther intended or promised to make a special Chapiter there can be no worse nor plainer than I haue already declared and therfore let me be excused if I satisâ—ie not 〈…〉 that by nowe and 〈…〉 which is so abundantly 〈◊〉 D. Harding doth charge him with 225. Unâ—ruthes M. Stapleâ—on â—â—â—â—pting the Untruths of the first Article in which he can not but 〈◊〉 with D. Harding doth charge him with 474. I recken not the .218 which D. Sander obiectech against him And of the 〈◊〉 which my self 〈◊〉 found in him in talking with him about the State of the Question in the first 〈…〉 and about his shamful ordering of D. Harding And about his 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 Gloâ—es 〈…〉 And Later writers the truth is I haue kept no reckening But this I am sure of that although 699. 〈◊〉 are founde in his foure first Articles only yet many of them that I obiect vnto him are none of the number of those 699. And yet I passe not the cuÌ„passe of the same Articles More specialties than these if any man wil require I am not my self at leisure but if he thinke it expedient he may by him selfe gather the Particulars into one Chapiter by telling onely the bart Untrueth without further discoursing vpon it And he should do wel not to recken euery one for that would occupie a great roome but such notable and singular Lies as might not only be vnderstanded but felâ—â—s it were and seene As if this Lie should be the First in the Rewe The Bishop of Rome and his Cardinals scarsely haue leisure to Sacrifice once in the whole yeare And Againe They do scarsely CoÌ„municate once in the yeare For this is so notorious a Lie and so palpable that he that would report it to another that neuer yet was at Rome might be thought neuer to haue come to Church whiles be taried there And he that shal haue occasion to iorney thither shal sensibly perceiue and see that it is a most shamful Lie And so furth in other of the like making the number of which although it would be lesse yet it should appeere most manifestly that the plaine meaning consciencies had neede to BEVVARE of M. IEVVEL How M. Iewel hath left some places altogeather vnanswered THus then the Chapiter of Lies being referred to the diligence of other that would haue them sette in their Rankes and which haue leisure to bring it to passe by themselues Is there any more to be obiected against M. Iewel Yea mary is there and that to his reproch and ignominie For pretending to Answere euery woorde of D. Hardings and shewing a countenance of such Learning that he could and such diligence that he would leaue nothing vndiscussed and vnperfited a great and iust shame it is for him that many and 〈◊〉 Argumentes and Testimonies against him he so passeth by as though he had neuer scene them As in example Do ye reproue the Masse saith D. Harding Or doe ye reproue the Priuate Masse And M. Iewel Aunswereth with other questious vnto him againe concerning Sole Receiuing and Single CoÌ„munion Priuate Masse and Sole Receiuing Sacrifice of the new Testament and A liâ—â—le Booke of his owne but to the question it selfe he Answereth not Concerning the publike Seruice of our 〈◊〉 if it had ben in English at y â— beginning Doubtlesse saith D. Har. some meÌ„tion would haue ben made of y e time and causes of the leauing such kind of Seruice of y e beginning of the New Latine Seruice As certain of S. Gregories workes turned into English by Bede himselfe haue been kept so as they remaine to this day But M. Iewel wil not or caÌ„not answer Si Benedixeris Spiritu c. If thou make thy prayer in the CoÌ„gregation with thy Spirit or noise of Strange wordes how shal the vnlerned man thervnto say AmeÌ„ Thus doth M. Iewel interpret y â— place But y â— translation saith D. Harding authorised by King Edward and his Councel is truer which hath thus Vvhen thou blessest vvith the Spirit hovv shal he that occupieth the roome of the vnlearned say Amen at thy geauing of thankes seeing he vnderstandeth not vvhat thou saiest And M. Iewel aunswereth not one worde in his owne defese for saying The vnlearned in steede of He that occupieth the roome of the vnlearned Of the Seruice in y e vulgare tongue the people saith D Har. wil frame lewd peruerse meanings of their own lewd senses Of y â— Latin they caÌ„not do so Ergo Latine is more meet for puâ—lik seruice M. Iew. aÌ„swereth nothing S. Peter saith Hilarins deserued for the confession of his blessed faith Supereminentem Locum A Preeminence aboue other To Supereminence or Preeminence aboue other which is imported by Super aboue M. Iewel answereth nothing How shal the Contumacie and Pertinacitie of mischieuous persons be repressed specially if the Bishops be at dissension within themselues if there be not a Supreme Power who towards some may vse the rod towardes other some the spirite of Lenitie M. Iewel answereth nothing Cum tantum c. Vvhereas vve see sayeth S. Augustine so greate helpe of God so greate profite and fruite shal vve stand in doubt vvhether vve may hyde ourselues in the Lappe of the Churche vvhich though Heretikes barke at it round about condemned partly by the IudgemeÌ„t of the people themselues partly by the Sadnesse of Councels and partly by the Maiestie of Miracles euen to the Confession of