page 154 155 Their great presumption page 157 The Power of Boldness page 159 Some instances of the great Impudence of this man page 160 161 c. Of their smuity Discourse page 163 A wicked Suggestion page 166 Two of their Popular Arts page 168 169 How Smect dealt with Bishop Hall page 170 They abuse the Scripture as the ancient Hereticks did page 171 172 c. A Discourse of Dr. Jackson's on this subject page 174 c. W. B. misapplication of Scripture page 176 And others page 177 Their conceit of themselves page 179 198 And sottish abuse of holy words page 180 181 Impudent excuses they make rather than confess Errors page 181 182 186 Of pretences to Visions page 183 Another dangerous notion of W. B. page 185 Of Pretences to Revelations page 187 c. New Lights page 18â— How mild they are toward high offenders among themselves page 192 c The reason men so easily believe lies and asperse others page 195 And rake Libels for them page 19â— His wicked suggestions about Sacriledge page 201 20â— c His pitiful Apology for them page 20â— Mr. Udal's Book about Sacriledg page 20â— How they misimploy their thoughts page 2â—â— A wretched reasoning page 212 21â— How little they value the Peace of the Church page 21â— How much the Ancients valued it page 21â— The hard haerteduess of the N. C. page 216 21â— The lying and jugling of this Writer page 219 c Their aptness to complain page 2â—â— And self-love page 224 Another old trick of the disaffected page 225 c. Their undutiful and causeless clamours c. page 227 228 c. Deprivation for not Conforming to Publike Order is not Persecution page 234 235 c. Magistrates Power to appoint fit Instructers of his people page 237 238 Necessity of punishing those that do not conform page 240 c. The N. C. against so much as a connivance heretofore page 244 The peaceableness of the old N. C. when deprived page 247 Now they are like the Donatists page 250 Men murmur least when Laws are strictly executed page 251 The witlessness of Malice page 255 It is not Godliness but themselves which they contend for page 256 N.C. have acknowledged the Canting of some of their own party page 257 c. How Mr. Calvin and others have been belyed by furious zealots page 260 c. The wild Logick of Philag page 264 c. The Assembly slighted by themselves page 269 c. They love to abuse us in holy Language page 272 The wicked spirit among N. C. page 273 Several sorts of them page 275 Their proud conceit of the power of their Ministry page 278 c. Men grow worse when they become Separatists page 282 Their own Books inform us of a wicked generation among them page 286 c. Advantage the Papists make of their Schism page 289 c. Why called Precisians page 290 Philag his Character of the N. C. page 295 c. Lies and falshoods in his Preface page 298 c. Anotable instance page 302 303 c. Lawfulness and usefulness of Forms of Prayer maintained by Mr. Roger's page 307 308 c. A Form of his which they will not imitate now page 311 Their Prayers more dangerous page 312 Mr. Egerton's Advertisement about Prayer page 313 Dr. Preston's page 315 The newness of the contrary opinion and practice page 315 316 The spirit not straitned by a form of words page 317 Philag against himself page 319 Of the Lyes which are in his Book page 323. to 330 Particularly about Excommunication page 330 331 c. Of going to Plays page 334 to 339 The Ordinances of Parliament about them page 340 How he abuses good sense page 342 c. The N.C. could see and Act worse Plays than any are now page 346 c. Of Trading in Promises page 354 And absolute Promises page 355 c. Their Faith acknowledged sometime to have no ground page 357 c. Of eying the Glory of God page 359 c. Wretched Interpreters of Holy Scripture page 361 c. Of Desertions c. page 364 c. How they have debauched Religion page 367 368 Justifie abuse of Scripture page 369 c. Pretend to mysteries when they are none page 374 c. His vain babble about Experiences and other things page 376 c. Of Perverters of the Sense of Books page 378 c. Punishments contrived for me page 380 c. W. B. lowsie similitude page 382 Wit not to be sought page 384 c. Wrangling without cause page 388 Considerations about the making up our breaches page 391 c. Of Schism page 394 Scandal page 395 Presumption of this Writâ—â— page 396 c. And of his fellows page 398 399 What Praving by the Spirit page 403. ERRATA Page 25. line 2. read Caraculiambre p. 26 l. 16. for Landaf r. Caerleon p. 26. l. 1. add in the marg p 151. of Sober Answer p 60 l. 26. r. manner p. 75 l. 24. r. Sophisters is in him p. 142. marg r. Duplies p. 143. l. 13. d. and before nice p. 153. l. 1. r. and will l. 20. O ye p. 184. l. 19. r. wherewith p. 225 l 27. that they might p. 230. l. 4. r cravings p. 234 l. ult r. their Discipline p. 278. penult flatly deâ— p. 282. l. 20. r. pertly champer p. 285. l. 6. r. to sins p. 288. l. 25. r. Martin Mar Priest p. 31. l. 12. r. for the tooth p. 323. l. 2. d. as p. 325. 2. for from r. form p. 333. l. 14. r. Caracalla p. 34â— l. 22. r. the point p. 354. l. 19. r. Traders p. 355 l. 25. r. of it p. 356. l. 1. r. requires p. 361. l. 1. Dav. Kimchi p. 364. l. 5. r. desertions p. 367. l. â— r. melancholy patient p. 377. l. 8. r. so much p. 37â— marg r. Lord Seguier Chancellor c. p. 380. l. 11 d. I may be able A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate N. C. NOw for an Ishmael C. Are you the Isaac's then against whom to speak a word is to scoffe at the Children of God And must we be all cast out like the bondwoman and her son to make room for you the Holy Seed N. C. I did but use the words of a late Writer who hath answered your two Debates p. 19. C. That hath snarl'd and carpt you should have said at some things in them which he did not understand and N. C. This is your old Pride C. It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched shifts to call men proud when you cannot confute them and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with senseless or impertinent stuff boldly to cry it up for an unanswerable piece N. C. What Arts do you tell me of I know none we use but honesty and plain dealing C. We know a great many other which have alway stood you in mighty stead One is to extoll the men
his Associates 1648. pag. 56. by some of the Professors of Rhetorick in Newgate or Lâ—dgate whose practice of that kind of Oratory had made him as great a stranger to Truth as to Blushing Such is the Rhetorick of Philagathus who tells us of starving and famishing rags and tatters killing all the day long and crucifying tears of blood and heart bleeding and repeats these as often m Preface p. 25. Book p. 21 46 80 149 22â— 229 231 233 237 247 283 c. as they did their O O O boldly affirming or rather presuming in General terms without any particular proofs For where are those starvlings and crucified persons Where are the Martyr'd or tatter'd creatures which will wring from us tears of blood Why are they not brought forth to the view of some pitiful eye as was then said Spend no longer your breath but let all this be seen for the view gives deeper impression than mere hearsays And when they are produced into open sight we shall go near to set as many honest and worthy Conformists before you who by reason of their great charge or small maintenance are in as mean a condition and live as hardly as they The truth is this language of Philagathus as that Declaration said looks more like the ebullition of Wine than the cry of want and therefore sometime we find him in another Tune telling us that the people generally retain the same good thoughts of them that they did heretofore n P. 149. If so Why should they want now more than in time past since good thoughts will keep up good affections and those will open the heart and that the purse N. C. Ask me no Questions for I can say nothing positively in this matter C. Nor he neither For all is built upon Suppositions as I told you And you may further observe that his so many hundreds of families of pious and learned Ministers that have hardly meâ—â— c p. 234. by that time he is got to p. 247. are dwindled into the almost starved families of scores of N. C. Ministers pious and able c. When he hath better considered of it he may come down to Dossens which is a less fall by much than from Many Hundreds to Scores he could not tell how many or how few Nay his Dossens at last may shrink into some few families who to use his own word it is possible may be as tattered and ragged as his Writings The truth is his Penruns on so carelessly that he drops any thing into his Paper that comes in his way be it true or be it false be it certain or only doubtful For when I desired that your Ministers would not suffer their people to fansie themselves under persecution o P. 237. of Fr. Deb. He presently answers with much pertness would it were in our power to make them know themselves to suffer nothing but if men be turned out of all c. p P. 283. of his Answ it is a hard matter to make them insensible He had such a quick sense of himself as he tells you presently that he could not think of any thing else But because he had lost his Living imagined the people who come not to Church are turned out of all which was never before now heard of N. C. It is a mistake C. And so is his whole Discourse about Persecution which I said could not be pretended for a cause of their Separation nor hath he said a word to shew it is so grievous and intolerable as to be alledged for that purpose He talks of their suffering hard things q P. 249. but what is that to the business especially if you consider that the worst things that are inflicted on them are the effect of their Separation and contempt of Laws not the cause upon which they separated as he would have the world believe For till they left our Churches and set up Congregations of their own they were only deprived of their places not imprisoned or otherwise punished Now I pray consider seriously Did ever any man whom you account sober call it Persecution which was the thing I spoke of to suffer Deprivation for not conforming to Publick Order No it is unjustly called hard usage and to complain of this as this Whifler doth though the condition of some men become very sad thereby is to complain of all Churches even of your own when you had any power It hath always been thought necessary in all places that there should be some Order kept in the Church of Christ For which purpose they have found it as necessary that there should be some Rules and Laws which signifie nothing without Penalties to inforce them and they as little if they be not inflicted when men transgress So that in conclusion it is as necessary to punish those that will not submit to the Laws as it is to have Publick Order The French Churches r Eccles Discipline of the Reformed Churches in France translated into English 1642. Chap. 5. Art 31. are so sensible of this that they have provided in Discipline That if one or more of the people shall move or stir up strife or contention to disjoyn and break the Union of the Church concerning some Point of their Doctrine or Discipline or about the method manner or style of the Catechism of the Administration of the Sacraments or Publick Prayers and the blessing of Matrimony and will not promise not to spread ought of their opinion in any manner or way whatsoever till the Synod hath heard them they shall be censured as rebellious persons And in case they will not renounce their Errors after all means tryed to convince them then they are to be cut off from the Church But in case a Pastor or Elder s Ib. Art 32. Concerning the Consistory trouble the Peace and break the Union of the Church or cause any strife or contention about some point of Doctrine or Discipline which they have subscribed unto or about Administration of the Sacraments or the form of Catechism or Publick Prayers and Benediction of Marriage and will not yield to what the Classical Assembly shall determine he shall presently be suspended from his charge and imployment to be proceeded against at the next Provincial or National Synod And if any Minister teach false Doctrine and will not forbear after Admonition he is to be deposed as also those who are not obedient to the Admonitions of the Consistory or are convicted of Heresie Schism or Rebellion against the Ecclesiastical Order t Ib. Ch. 1. Coacerning Ministers and Pastors Art 45. As for those who thrust themselves into the Ministry in Countries and Places where the Preaching of the Gospel is already pure and lawfully established and will not desist when they are warned of it they are to be cut off quite and proceeded against as the Synods judg fit together with those that follow and adhere to them if after the
more necessary than now when those undertake to inform and teach the Nation who have not so much knowledg as the Prophesying Ape with which Giles of Passamonte went about to cosen the Country N. C. What was that C. It had this notable faculty that it could tell nothing at all of what was to come but knew something of what was past and a little of things present otherwise it would never mount up to Giles his shoulder and chatterin his ear But this Phil. of yours frisks and grins in my face and grates his teeth apace and looks upon me as a scurvy lyar and yet confesses himself Ignorant of what is past and that when he mounts up himself without any bidding to talk of it Thus the poor people are cosened and this man cosens their Conscience while such as the other only pick their pockets of twelve pence a piece N. C. Why What Liturgy were they wont to use in Scotland or when was the Church of Scotland for the use of a Liturgy Were they not alway without and against a Form of Divine Service C. You need not repeat his words I was going to tell you that it is endless to write to such a Scribler who will ask that Question again which hath been already Answered Did I not tell you in our last Dehate r Continuation of the Friendly Debate p. 409. that the Scottish Form of Prayer was printed here in England in the beginning of the late Wars But he is not at leisure to read Books He is a writer forsooth and cannot spare so much time from this great imployment as to read the Book he writes against For had it pleased him to be at this pains there he might have heard of the strange thing which he imagines no body ever saw the Scots Form of Divine Service But he will think perhaps that I wrote like himself without any care at all and transcribed that passage out of my own imagination and not from the sight of my eyes For your better information therefore you may know that there being some persons at Frankfort in Queen Maries time who would admit no other Form of Prayers but that in the English Book Mr. John Knox a principal Reformer in Scotland afterward joyned with those who quarrell'd at it But it appears by the story that he was not against a Form of Divine Service no nor against all things in the English Book But as he had an high esteem of the Composers of it s Witness the Commendation he gives Cranmer whom he called that Reverend Father in God Admonition to the Professors of the Truth in England An. 1554. p. 51. so he approved in great part of the work it self A brief description indeed of it being sent by him and Whittingham to Mr. Calvin and his opinion of it return'd Jan. 22. 1555. Mr. Knox and four more were ordered to draw forth another order of Divine Service which was the very same with that of Geneva But part of the Congregation still adhering to the Book of England after some Conference they composed a new Order by the advice of Mr. Knox some of it taken out of the English Book and other things added as the State of the Church required and to this all consented as we are told in the Discourse of the Troubles of Frankfort t Repriâ—ed here 1642. P. 30 31. A little after Dr. Cox coming thither answered aloud as the manner is here which bred a new contention And to be short the English Book was again established and continued though afterward they left off the use of the Ceremonies and Mr. Knâ—â— went to Geneva There I find he was when Queen Mary dyed being one of those who subscribed the Letter to the Church at Frankfort u Decemb. 15. 1558. desiring that whatsoever offences had been given or taken might be forgotten and that all might lovingly agree when they met in England Not long after he went into Scotland where some had begun a Reformation More particularly it had been concluded by the Lords and Barons a little after their first Covenant x In which they who forsook Popery ingaged themselves to each other by a Common Bond. Decemb. 3. 1557. that it was thought expedient advised and ordained that in all Parishes of the Realm the Common Prayer should be read weekly on Sundays and other Festivals publickly in the parish-Parish-Church with the Lessons of the Old and New Testament conforming to the ORDER OF THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER And if the Curates of the Parishes be qualified to cause them to read the same if not or they refuse that the most qualified in the Parish use and read it y History of the Church of Scotl. ascribed to Mr. Knox. Book 1. pag. 110. In this Settlement Mr. Knox found them and though the Queen discharged the Common Prayers and forbad to give any portions to such as were the principal young men who read them yet they continued to be read z Ibid. Book 2. pag. 170. an 1559. And what was thus began by a few persons was afterward compleated by a more Publick Decree For by a General Assembly holden in December 1562. it was ordained that one Vniform Order should be observed in the Administration of the Sacraments according to the Order of Geneva That is as I understand it the very same which Mr. Knox and the rest had used when they were there And two year after Decemb. 1564. It was again ordained that Ministers in the Ministration of the Sâ—craments should use the Order set down in the Psalm Book a Both these I have out of the Disputation against the Assembly at Perth and they are alledged to prove there should be no kneeling at the Sacrament because their Old Order did not prescribe it to which now that Form I suppose was annexed Nor did Mr. Knox think himself above these Forms but made use of them as appears from hence That being desired before the Council to moderate himself in his Form of praying for the Queen he related to them the most vehement and most excessive manner of Prayer that he used in Publick and after he had repeated the words at length concluded thus This is the Form of Common Prayer as you your selves can witness b Ib. Book 4 p. 380. an 1564. The same History also records a Form of Publick Prayer used in the Church of St. Giles in Edenburgh upon the Peace made with France c July 8. 1560. p. 245. and aâ—â— ther Form d P. 287. at the Election of Superintendents He also that wrote the Mederate Reply e An. 1646. to the City Remonstranâ—â— against Toleration presents the Remonstrants in the last leaf of his Book with a Form of Thanksgiving used in the Church of Scotland for their deliverance from the French by the English An. 1575. Bâ—t why do I mention these particular Prayers There was Printed as I said 1641. the Service and
all Churches And then he concludes with a perswasion to all good Christians to lay aside contention and endless and many of them also needless Questions about this matter And seeing it must of all who are well advised be granted that the publique prayers are helps to stir up Gods graces in us and to convey to us the many good blessings of God which we want to look therefore to themselves every way so carefully that they may be fit to be helped and benefitted by them and with the same well ordered hearts and minds to attend unto and apply to themselves the prayers which either before and after Sermon are uttered or the other which through the whole action of Gods worship are read in their hearing and not to be led by opinion that they can take no profit by them N. C. I see very well what kind of writer he is C. And you see he is not for the â—â—oth of the men of these days in which Philag confesses your Ministers dare not perswade the people in this manner much less tell them that all who are well advised are sensible of the benefit that is to be received by the publike prayers read out of a Book This one passage is enough I doubt not to make such Books as these to be rejected as well as their Admonitions N. C. I believe these very good men and meant exceeding well C. But were weak and in a lower dispensation N.C. I dare not say so but I think they would not please now C. No I warrant you especially when they met with a form of prayer which this Author himself hath drawn up at the end of the fourth Treatise y Chap. 20. p. 537. c. Edit 5. 1630. In which among other things he teaches the people to acknowledge the great goodness of God in giving them to live under a most Christian and Religious Prince and King defending and maintaining the Gospel against all Antichristian Malice and tyranny and other adversary powers and the same truly and sincerely preached c. These are words which do not sound well in many of your ears they would be loath to joyn in this acknowledgment For we are told by one that God hath ecclipsed the light of the Sanctuary z T. W. Godlymans picture p. 114 By another that our Aarons too often make golden Calves a Rebuild of London p. 359. And by Philagathus that the Gospel is gone from many congregations in England and else where b Sober Answ p. 284. And that the Goshens that were when the N. C. were in them are grown as dark as the land of Egypt c pag. 285. and were it not for some reasons he tells you he would not have spoken of it but let it alone till the cry thereof so came up to Heaven as to cause the God of Heaven to say as in Gen. 18.11 concerning Sodom I will go down and see if they have done altogether according to the cry of it which is come up unto me c. d p. 286. By which it should seem N. C. No glosses good Sir nor Inferences C. There needs none We may plainly observe what judgments they expect to come upon us because of their removeal We are in Egypt already though the word of God be read every where and must be made like Sodom and Gomorrah I wish heartily that in stead of such acknowledgments as good M. Rogers taught the people to make though many in those times were suspended and deprived they do not now clap petards on heavens gates that they may fly open and send down Fire and brimstone upon us N. C. Are you mad what wild fire hath got into your head Phil. called you a Crack now he will call you a Cracker C. You are not well read I perceive T. W. tells you that Prayer hath a power to destroy the Insolent Enemies of the Church For the two VVitnesses have a flame at their lips Fire proceeds out of their mouth which devours their Enemies Rev. 11.5 and this Fire is certainly to be interpreted of their Prayers c Godly mans picture by Mr. Tho. Watson p. 129. Now that you may better understand their power he tells you that Prayer is a petard which will make Heavens Gate to flye open f Ib. p. 130. N. C. I cry you mercy I did not expect to have found such expressions any where C. Not in Mr. Rogers I warrant you nor any of the Seminaries before named who will never trouble you with such conceited language as this nor tell you that Prayer is a seed sown in Gods ears g Ib. p. 128. N. C. Good now dismiss both him and Mr. Rogers I have had enough of them C. Let me tell you first that this book of his was abridged by Mr. Egorton * Anno. 1618. and put in Quest and Answ who commended it in his Preface to Mr. Hen. Scudders daily Walk and called the practice of Christianity A Book well know and much read when I was a Child and hath an Epistle of Dr. Gouge before it and at the conclusion certain Advertisements concerning Prayer * At the end of the seventh Book chap. 11. pag. 691. Edit 5. 1635. In which he declares that it is lawful and in some Cases expedient to use a set Form of Prayer And there being in respect of place and company three sorts of Prayer Publique in the Church private in the Family and secret by a mans self he concludes that the greatest liberty may be taken in solitary Prayer by a mans self because we are sure provided we be humble and upright that God will not upbraid any man for his Method Order Words or utterance In private Prayer he thinks we may not take so great a Liberty as when alone and justly fears that some well affected people have been somewhat faulty and offensive in this the weaker sort being not so capable of that kind of Prayer which is called conceived or extemporall varying every time in words phrase manner and order though the matter and substance be the same But as for the publique Congregation special care he tells you must be had that nothing be done in praying preaching or administring the Sacraments but what is decent and orderly because there many eyes do see us and many ears hear us and upon this account it is expedient for the most part to keep a constant Form both of matter and words c. This was the Doctrine of the Divines of those dayes though it be not relished now by those who reverence their Name more than their Books Dr. Preston himself another Name which this man vapours withal declared his opinion about the lawfulness of set forms in the first Sermon h Preached before he was Chaplain as Mr. Ball tells us in his Life published by Mr. Clark p. 112. he preached before King James at Royston upon 1 John 16. where he hath these remarkable