And what think you now Misrepresenter tell me your Opinion was the Protestant Religion Anciently and Generally profess'd and practis'd in these Primitive Times when Constantine govern'd both the Western and Eastern World Do's the Church in his time practising as you have now seen acknowledg'd by unquestionable Authorities look like a Protestant Church If you know what 't is to be a Protestant tell me your mind Was Constantine and his Church Protestants or no Misrepresent You have hunted out for all the Superstâ—tions Errors and Oversights of that Age and now ask Whether the Professors were Protestants And I answer you They were Protestants as to the Doctrine of the Gospel and Creed which they profess'd tho' not as to their Oversights and Errors Represent That is to say in plain English They were Protestants as the Papists now are Protestants Any honest man by your appeal to and Pretext of Reformation according to the Primitive Times would have expected to have found a Protestant Religion profess'd and practis'd in those times as 't is now here in this Nation by Law establish'd And yet when we have taken a Prospect of those Primiâ—ive Ages we find the Christians then living Professors of no other Protestancy than such as is seen practis'd at this day in their Majesties Chappels at White-Hall Somerset house and St. James's and that I think is a Protestancy which is call'd Popery Misrepresent Why in our Reformation we are no more oblig'd to take in the Errors of Constantine 's time than those Corruptions we found in the time of Henry 8. No we Reform according to the Purity of the Gospel and have no other Rule than that of the Word of God Instructing and Directing us And as for all Superstitions they are alike rejected by us tho' some have Antiquity to plead in their behalf Represent Then I see however you pretend your Reformation has reduc'd Christianity to that state as 't was profess'd in the Primitive Times Yet when we come to look into those times thinking to find a Flourishing Uncontrol'd Protestancy Generally and Publickly Profess'd we are still as far to seek for 't as before and all that appears is the Doctrine of the Creed and Gospel profess'd but together with what you call the Errors and Superstitions of Popery so that to be a Protestant according to the Primitive Times is nothing else but to be a Papist Certainly this must be a very surprising disappointment to some to find Constantine the Great and Eusebius his Historian to be such kind of Popish Protestants as these who yet are set down by your Dr. Swadlin as the Ancient Protestants according to whose Faith and Practice the present Reformation was regulated and against whose Positions says he Ans 11. if we hold any thing name it we answer it prove it we yield So that let me tell you By what I can see as yet when a man has taken the pains to look back to those Primitive Ages he can be no more satisfied where the Protestant Religion as 't is now Reform'd was in the time of Constantine than when Luther began the Reformation but after all his search he must rest contented either with the Plain Mans Reply of its being Home where or other or else with the same It may be as was given to the Parishioner It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassin and Egyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud cover'd with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Famil Discourse betwixt a Minister and Parishioner p. 14. ADVERTISEMENT THis is to give notice That this last Week were sound here in London several Good Protestant Lies concerning Flying Crabs seen in the Chappel at Somerset-house and of the Parish Church of St. James's in the Fields being undermin'd by the Papists and in danger of being demolished by Fire-Balls If the Right Owners will appear they shall be restor'd to them without Cost or Charges and if any will produce them they shall be well rewarded for their Pains Publish'd with Allowance Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine Represent IF you remember at our last meeting Misrepresenter we were looking back into the Primitive Times to see if we could find there the Protestant Religion as 't is now reform'd Generally Profess'd and Practis'd amongst the Christians of that Purer Age. But we lost our labour and all the Hopes You came big with ended in nothing but a disappointment Misrepresent 'T would be a Miracle indeed to find it as long as you have the carrying and management of the Light by which we are to make the Discovery Represent A short memory makes you Unreasonable Have you forgot so soon the very Means and Method by which we enter'd upon our Search were of your own Choice at least by approbation and consent Our business was to make enquiry after the Protestant Religion We agreed to examine the Religion Practis'd in Constantine's time who as your Dr. Swadlin says was a Protestant and in whose time according to your Divines the Protestant Religion was generally profess'd We took an account of the Religion of that Age from Eusebius a Protestant Professor too if you credit Dr. Swadlin and some other Modern Protestants The Translation of Eusebias we made use of was done by a Protestant approv'd and publish'd by Protestants and Printed at Cambridge Anno 1683. a Protestant Vniversity what possibly could be fairer done and more to your advantage And yet after all instead of meeting in those times with the Protestant Religion as now Reform'd we were got in the middle of Good Catholics Professing and Practising their Religion receiv'd from the Apostles pure as yet and uncorrupted as your Fulk and Calvin confess and such as you under the specious Pretext of Reformation have since made Odious and Criminal and done your best to hiss it out of the world Misrepresent The Reformers have preserv'd the Religion of those times Inviolable and have only labour'd to purge Christianity of the Errors then or since that time brought in to deform it Represent This is the proper Mark of the Beast Never a Reformer yet even from Arius to this Day but what has set up his Standard against Pretended Errors and Innovations And this is the stamp they set upon every thing that does not sute with their Humour Fancy or Interest The Reformers of the Reformation go by the same Rule and such as Reform agen upon those that Reform the Reformation still pursue this Method till at last they have
THE Catholic Representer OR THE PAPIST Misrepresented AND REPRESENTED Second Part. Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty For his Houshold and Chappel 1687. THE CONTENTS CHAP. I. OF the Veneration shewn to Images of Christ the Virgin Mary c. Whether the Papists Pray to Images in Relation to a Passage of a Book Entituled A Catechism truly Representing the Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome and its Vindication CHAP. II. Whether Papists Pray directly to the Cross as is positively Asserted by a Protestant with an Essay of a Heathen-Catechism after the Copy of the Truly-representing Protestant-Catechism in which this Calumny is publish'd CHAP. III. Whether the Doctrine of Transubstantiation be contrary to the Writings of the Primitive Fathers or agreeable to them The Papist believes his Senses in this Mystery as much as the Protetant being Notes upon a late Pamphlet Entituled The Papists Doctrine of Transubstantiation not agreeable to the Primitive Fathers CHAP. IV. The Form of the Catholic Church Establish'd by Christ No hopes of Salvation out of it The Practice of the Apostles and Primitive Church in this Point Good at this day The Protestants as uncharitably Damn the Papists as These are said to do the Protestants In reference to the Preface of Wholsom Advices from the B. V. c. CHAP. V. The Papist as to the Articles of his Belief follows the Method prescrib'd by Christ practis'd by the Apostles and the Primimitive Church The Method is of Divine Institution and more according to Reason than what Others follow The Word Worship is Equivocal and acknowledg'd so by St. Austin CHAP. VI. The Papist do's not Believe but upon most Convincing Reasons Mysteries of Faith above Reason not contrary to it The Papist is not depriv'd of the Word of God nor kept from the Knowledge of the Gospel He do's not Pray to the Cross more than Protetestants Pray to their Bibles or the Sacrament Three Protestant Queries Answer'd CHAP. VII The Vulgar among the Papists not depriv'd of the Word of God. They are better Instructed in the true Sense of it than those of other Perswasions who Teach themselves The Vnlearned and Vnstable wrest it to their own Destruction CHAP. VIII The Vulgar not permitted to read the Bible among the Papists for fear they should discover the Errors of their Religion an Absurd Calumny The Restraint is That there may not be as many different Words of God as there are Heads amongst them and may have something better Ground than their own Imagination to direct their Faith. A Word to a Lay-Friend CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whilst Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-Story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity CHAP. X. Private Interpretation of Scriptures the Occasion of Divisions Some Protestant Divines call in the Assistance of Authority and Guides but all ends in the Private Spirit The Question started Where was the Protestant Religion as it is now Reform'd before Luther The Answers of some Protestant Divines CHAP. XI An Enquiry into the Religion of the Primitive Times and particularly That of Constantine the First Christian Emperor For the Satisfaction of those who desire to know whether the Protestant Religion was generally Profess'd amongst the Christians of those Purer Times CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those Times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine CHAP. XIII The Professors of Popish Doctrines in the Primitive Times no Protestants but Papists Popish Tenets not only the Opinions of Private Doctors but the Doctrine of the Primitive Church The Four First General Councils no Protestants CHAP. XIV No Protestant Harangue in the First Four General Councils to fill the Fathers Heads with Fears and Jealousies No Canons made by the said Fathers to prevent the Growth of Popery at that Time professedly Taught and Practis'd is an Argument that the Fathers of those Councils were no Protestants CHAP. XV. The Appeal of Protestants to the Primitive Fathers shewn Injurious to Protestancy from the Concessâ—ons of Protestant Writers Luther the Apostle of the Reformatiâ—â— disclaims the Doctrine of the Fathers as not being for his purpose of Reforming CHAP. XVI A New Way of making all the Popish Sayings of the Primitive Fathers to be Good Protestancy The Art of Interpreting do's Feats it makes way for Atheism and Infidelity THE PAPIST Misrepresented AND Represented SECOND PART CHAP. I. Of the Veneration shewn to Images of Christ the Virgin Mary c. Whether the Papists pray to Images in Relation to a Passage of a Book Entituled A Catechism truly Representing the Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome and its Vindication THe Papist Misrepresented worships the Images of Christ and his Saints he kisses them uncovers his Head falls down before them offers Incense and Prays to them and uses all such Postures of Worship as he would do to the Person or Persons thereby represented if they were present And whosoever thinks otherwise amongst them is accursed Catech. truly repres the Doctr. of the Ch. of Rome p. 42. THe Papist Represented is taught That the Images of Christ of the Virgin Mary and other Saints ought to be kept and especially in Churches and due Honour and Veneration given them not for that any Divinity or Vertue is believed to be in them or that any thing is to be asked of them or any confidence to be placed in them as was anciently done by the Heathens who put their trust in Idols but because the Honour which is exhibited to the Images is referr'd to the Prototype or Thing represented by them So that by the Images which he kisses and before which he kneels or puts off his hat he adores Christ and reverences his Saints whom the said Images represent This is what He is taught and are the Words of the Council of Trent Sess 25. And tho some endeavour to cast an Infamy upon this Doctrine and Practice by letting loose the School-debates amongst the multitude and raising Mists and Confusion from the disagreeâ—ng Opinions of Divines Yet in honest Practice he 's conscious to himself of doing no more than what he sees done every Day by such who commendably follow the regular Motions of Humane Nature the Dictates of unbiass'd Reason First therefore as Men judge it nothing but Decent and Reasonable to set forth and adorn their Houses with the Pictures of such Persons as belong to their Family of their old Friends Benefactors Governours such as they esteem and whose Memory they desire to preserve and honour So he cannot but think it as agreeable to Reason that the House of God be
the Scripture in their Memory more Texts at their tongue's command more of the Books in their hands but 't is where more care is taken for imprinting the true Sence of these Words in the Vnderstanding of the People and where is us'd the most prudential method for the leading them into the truth of all the Mysteries contain'd in that sacred Volume And in this Point the Papist will yield to none for it is an unquestionable truth that when a Book contains high Mysteries of Religion Mysteries superiour to all Sence and Reason and those not deliver'd in expressions suited to every capacity but obnoxious to various interpretations such as may be wrested by the unlearned and unstable to their own Destruction in this case 't is an unquestionable truth I say that that People is in all probability likely to have more of the true Sence of this Book and to be better informed of the truth of the Mysteries it contains who are instructed in it by the Learned of that Communion and taught it by their Pastors Prelates and those whom God hath placed over them to govern and feed the Flock than any other People who have the Book put into their own hands to read it and search it and satisfie themselves For why Are not the Pastors more capable of teaching the People than the People are to teach themselves Or is it commendable in Scripture only and Religion for every one to be his own Master which in any other matter whosoever doe's it shall be esteem'd a Fool We know Moses Deut. 31. 9. gave the Book of the Law to the Levites to keep and read it every seven years to the People and in King Jehoshaphats reign 2 Chron. 17. 9. the Priests and Levits did read it and teach the People so did Jeremy Jer. 36. by Gods command so Isaiah so Ezekiel so the Levits Nehemiah 8. 8. Read in the Book in the Law of God distinctly and gave the Sence and caus'd them the People to understand the Reading And did not our Blessed Saviour Luc. 4. 17. take the Book of the Prophet and read it and expound it to the People And was not this the Office of the Apostles and Deacons to interpret the Scriptures and instruct their Followers what they were to believe and doe For this intention was Ananias sent to Saul Peter to Cornelius and Philip to the Eunuch who professedly own'd he could not understand the Prophet in so necessary a Point as that of the Messias without an Interpreter How can I understand said he except some man should guide me Act. 8. 31. Since therefore the Papists in delivering the Scripture come nearest to this Method commanded by God in the Old Law prescrib'd and practis'd by Christ and his Apostles in the New what People can be better instructed in the true sence of it and understand more of the Mysteries of the Christian Faith than they With what Reason can it be urg'd against the Vulgar of his Communion that the Scriptures are hid from them that they are bred up in blindness and ignorance Do not the Pastors expound the Scriptures to them do not they instruct them in every Point of their Religion and teach them the whole Duty of a Christian Is it not this they do in their Pulpits in their Catechisms in the Confessionaries in so many hundred spiritual Books plainly laying before them their whole obligation both as to Faith and Good manners And is this to conceal from them the Scripture Is the Word of God hid from them because they have their Pastors to instruct them in it Or are they any ways injur'd because they have learneder men than themselves to teach them Is the Multitude a better Judge of Scripture and more able to discover the truth of it than those whom God has plac'd over them Has God so deserted the Pastors and Prelates of his Church and is the Flock of late become so Wise The Faith of Christ was first planted by Christ's Preaching it to the Multitude by the same way 't was propagated by the Apostles and so it is to be deliver'd down to the end of the World Faith comes by hearing By this means many Barbarous Nations saies St. Irenaeus l. 3. adv har c. 3. believe in Christ have the Doctrine of Salvation written in their Hearts by the Holy Ghost without the help of Books and religiously observe the Traditions believing in one God c. Now 't is certain the Truth of this Christian Faith with all its Mysteries is unquestionably preserv'd in Christs Catholic Church and the People are to receive it and not to find out their Faith and Religion every one for themselves If they are afraid of being deceiv'd when they rely on their Pastors for it they run ten times the hazard when they trust to themselves The Papist therefore is taught that since Christ has a Church upon earth in which is conserv'd the truth of the Gospel 't is safer and more prudential for the People to be instructed in this Truth from the Pastors of this Church and by this means come to the Knowledg of the Word of God that is of its true sence and meaning than by committing the Book it self into the hands of the Multitude and leting every one understand it for themselves He knows 't is a very popular thing and acceptable to the prying Multitude to have a Book at command which directs the Way to Salvation but since 't is not the Book is to save him but the Truth and Doctrine which it teaches he believes 't is better learning this from those who are Wiser and are commissionated from Heaven to teach than to venture at it himself without any Authority The unhappy Divisions among Christians sufficiently inform him that to such Readers as St. Peter calls unreary and ignorant however wise they may think themselves Aâ—ianism may be as obvious in this Book as Christs Divinity and that when such an one undertakes the interpreting of it 't is an hazard whether at the end he comes out Quaker Anabaptist Presbyterian Independent Mugletonian Socinian or Atheist 'T is a Venture whether the Trinity shall have place in his Creed or no whether he 'll allow of Baptism or any Sacrament and whether Cruelty cutting of Throats Oppression Tyranny Dethroning of Kings and Murder of Princes shall not with him become a necessary Duty and a true serving of the Lord. For all these and more damnable Doctrines has he seen preach'd up and practic'd by those who have had the Bible in their Banners who have been esteem'd Searchers of the Word of God and presumptuously made their Comments upon this Sacred Text. And is it not this abuse that has occasion'd so many Schisms and almost broken the Mystical Body of Christ into pieces That whereas all his Followers should be of one mind now no body knows what Religion his Neighbour is of but every Wall now parts Religions more than Seas did heretofore And
the whole is come to be no more than a Perswasion a Judgment an Opinion And now since these and infinite other mischiefs arise from the free permitting the Bible among the Multitude he thinks it commendable in his Church out of a true Solicitude for the Salvation of Souls to prevent these evils by teaching them the true Sence of this Sacred Volume and instructing them in their whole Duty as to all they are to believe and practice without leaving the Book to be scann'd by them as they please and so not permitting them to turn the Food of their Souls into Poyson or abuse that to theit Destruction which was ordain'd by Christ for their gaining of Heaven They are not therefore depriv'd of the Holy Scripture but have the whole benefit of it and all the comfort being instructed in the whole word of God only with this Advantage that 't is not left in their power to do themselves any mischief by abusing it And this is so ordered only in consideration of the Vulgar who are commonly very ignorant unsteady bold presuming or as St. Paul stiles them Vnlearn'd and Vnstable and easy to be deceiv'd whilst judicious men of his Communion any one that is Learned Prudent and Sober may be easily permitted to have the perusal of this Book to read it as much and as often as he pleases because such are not in danger of prejudicing themselves by false interpretations or preferring their own Sence before that which they receive from their Pastors and the Church 'T is not the Book therefore that is properly forbidden but only false and presumptuous interpretations of it and such only who are in all probability likely to do this are not permitted to read it And upon the whole there 's nothing more in this great noise of the Papist being depriv'd of the Word of God than that such as for the most part are not capable amongst them of reading it as they ought have not leave to read it and those that are capable may have in most Countreys leave to read it as they please Those that can read it to edification may have it at desire and those that are likely to read it to the perverting of Gods Holy Word and the destruction of their own Souls 'T is thought fit they should let it alone Publish'd with Allowance London Prnted by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VIII The Vulgar not permitted to read the Bible among the Papists for fear they should discover the Errours of their Religion an Absurd Calumny The Restraint is That there may not be as many different Words of God as there are 〈◊〉 amongst them and may have something better ground that their own Imagination to direct their Faith a word to a Lay-friend Misrepresent YOu gave me no room to put in one word in your last but for all your long-winded Reasons there why the Vulgar of your Communion do not generally read the Scriptures I can apprehend no other but only that your Priesis and Jesuits being conscious of the unreasonableness of Popery and how contrary it is to the Truth of God's Word dare not allow the People the reading and perusirg it left finding their Religion not to stand the trial of the Scriptures they should discover the delusion and run over to the Reformation Represent I expect no better from you 't is your trade to make the worst of every thing the Papists do but the best on 't is your Misconstructions lie so open that there needs no more than a mere glimpse of Reason to discover all your Art. For if any of your Auditors should but once consider that tho' the Vulgar and unlearned of the Papists have not in some Countries the Bible promiscuously allow'd amongst them yet that in those same Countries and all others there 's no Colledge Vniversity Community or place of learning but where the Scriptures are publickly read and expounded if they should consider this I say Is it possible for them to believe that that Restraint is upon the Vulgar for fear they should see into the Foliies of their Religion If their Religion were so contrary to Scripture as you pretend is it not more likely the learned should make this discovery in their reading the Bible than the Vulgar if they had the like liberty Cannot Scholars as easily see the Truth of Scripture and what is erroneous and at defiance with it as the Vnlearned Or are the Errors and Foliies of Popery such that of necessity a man must be a Block-head to understand them Since when became Mechanics and Apron-strings so priviledg'd that to be bred up to the Anvil the Needle or the Ell should qualifie better for the understanding the Scriptures than application Study and the education of a Vniversity Or is it probable that every man amongst the Papists no sooner becomes Scholar but he turns Atheist That upon their search in the Bible they plainly see all the errors of their Religion and yet are so bewitched as to go on boldly and jocondly to the Devil without speaking a word or moving a step to save their own Souls or their Relations Come Misrepresenter this looks so like a sham of yours that I cannot but admire your confidence I wonder how you dare venture your credit in exposing such weak and ill-grounded Arguments You have men of sense and reason to deal with and 't is much they do not make exceptions But I suppose you rely upon the hearty Prejudice they have against Popery in which case you know they 'l take upon trust they 'l pin their Faith upon any mans Sleeve and let impossibilities pass for evident Truths without examination Misrepresent You may prove and preach as long as you please but I am sure thousands and thousands that I meet with will never believe otherwise than I tell you You do all things by design and you have no other reason notwithstanding all your loud pretences for keeping the Eible out of the hands of your common people but only the jealousie your Pastors have that by that Light they 'l see into the deformitys of Popery and prove Deserters Represent The men of this Creed are only such whose Eyes you have put out to lead them by the Nose after you where you please What ground can there be for this pretension at least here in England where the Bible in English or Rhemes-Testament is to be found in most Catholic Families If the Prohibition of not reading the Bible be as you pretend in other Countries for fear of the Vulgar discovering the Errors of their Religion How comes it they donâ—t make this discovery here Do you find so many Deserters in this Nation upon this score Many have quitted that Communion upon other motives best known to themselves but never any one I could meet with left them yet by reading and following the Word of God. Again