Selected quad for the lemma: opinion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
opinion_n	eternal_a	hold_v	mover_n	30	3	16.5719	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A57666	The new planet no planet, or, The earth no wandring star, except in the wandring heads of Galileans here out of the principles of divinity, philosophy, astronomy, reason, and sense, the earth's immobility is asserted : the true sense of Scripture in this point, cleared : the fathers and philosophers vindicated : divers theologicall and philosophicall points handled, and Copernicus his opinion, as erroneous, ridiculous, and impious, fully refuted / by Alexander Rosse ; in answer to a discourse, that the earth may be a planet.	Ross, Alexander, 1591-1654.	1646 (1646)	Wing R1970; ESTC R3474	118,883	127

this you have not as yet proved neither will you be ever able to prove The earth indeed is a mother but as senslesse and stupid as Niobe who would suffer her children to starve with cold if that heavenly fire did not move about her As for your instance of a Watch-maker I will use it in your owne words but to our purpose If a wise Watch-maker will not put any superfluous motion in his instrument shall we not thinke that nature is as provident as any ordinary mechanicke Therefore doubtlesse it had been superfluous for the earth to move And whereas you say That the motion of the starres is full of confusion and uncertainties That is true in respect of your ignorance there is an heavenly order and harmony amongst them the confusion is in your head and the uncertainty in your knowledge 7. You say That motion is most agreeable to that which in kinde and properties is neerest to the bodies that are moved But this I say is false for an immoveable body is not made capable of motion because it is neere in some properties to the body that is moved A rocke and a mill-stone which perhaps was taken out of the same rocke agree in kinde and properties will it therefore follow that because the mill-stone moves round the rocke also moves round The sea-water and well-water agree in kinde and properties doth the well-water therefore ebbe and flow But your drift is to shew That the earth moveth with the six Planets because both Earth and Planets have a borrowed light whereas the Sunne and fixed Stars have it of their own Answ. A goodly reason the earth must move as well as the sixe Planets because it hath a borrowed light as well as they as if you would say Saturne and the Moone have a borrowed light therefore they have the same motion and bignesse or thus the Planets have a borrowed light as well as the earth therefore they rest or be as heavie as the earth but what if I should say the Planets have some light of their owne as may be seen by the Moone which the earth hath not and therefore they agree not in this property of light and consequently the earth moveth not as they doe But when you say the fixed stars have light of their owne you speake at randome for you can shew no reason of this conceit why the fixed starres should have light of their owne and not the Planets or why the Planets borrow light and not the fixed stars Againe you thinke That the Sunne and Stars should rest because they are of a more excellent nature As if motion did belong to the ignoblest creatures we know the contrary Man is a more noble creature then a rocke yet man moveth and the rocke is immoveable The heart in our bodies is more noble then the guts yet that moveth they move not Is the body of man lesse excellent when it is moved by the soule then when it is at rest putrifying in the grave When water rests from its motion it loseth its excellencie and stinketh therefore motion in many things is more noble then rest as for the rest which you say is ascribed to God that is not to our purpose for it is transcendent and hyperphysicall and as God is said to rest so he is said to move therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But why you should thinke the fixed Starres of a more excellent nature then the Planets I know not neither can you give any reason for it 8. Aristotle you say tels us that the time of the revolution of each orbe should be proportionable to its bignesse which can only be you thinke By making the earth a Planet I answer that of two evills the lesse is to be chosen and better it is that there should be some disproportion between the bignesse of the orbes and the time of their motion then that the earth should move 2. You cannot exactly tell what disproportion there is in their motions till first you finde out the true knowledge of their magnitudes That the Comets which move in the aire are not moved by the heavens but by the earth you prove Because the concave superficies of the Moone is thought to be smooth so that the meere touch of it cannot turne about the fire with a motion not naturall to it nor can the subtle fire move the thicker aire nor this the waters Answ. How the upper spheares move the lower is neither knowne to you nor me but by conjectures 2. I have already shewed that one smooth body by its touch may move another as the winde moves the clouds so in the Northerne seas one mountaine of ice which is smooth moves the other forward 3. The subtiltie and puritie of the fire is no hinderance to its moving of the thicker aire for doe not our animall spirits which are pure and subtle and yet materiall move our grosse bodies Doth not the winde move grosse substances 4. That the aire doth not move the water is repugnant to experience for within the Tropickes the sea is continually moved from East to West by the aire and this by the heaven as I have shewed elsewhere 5. That the circular motion of the fire is not naturall is false for though this motion proceed not from an inward principle as the straight motion doth yet it is naturall because the nature of the fire is preserved by it for the fire never gives off moving upward till it begin to move circularly and then is it in its chiefe perfection when it hath attained this motion Lansbergius you say concludes that the earth is easily moveable from the words of Archimedes who said that he could move the earth if he knew where to stand and fasten his instrument it is a foolish conclusion for so he might as well conclude that armed men may arise out of the ground because Pompey said that if he did but stampe with his foot the ground would yeeld him armed men So because Medaea said Ego inter auras aliti curru vebar That shee would flie in the aire in a chariot drawne by dragons that therefore shee could doe as shee said this is to play the Poet. 9. The opinion of Intelligences by which the heavens are moved you say hath its originall from Aristotle's mistake who held the heavens to be eternall I answer that Aristotle was mistaken in holding the heavens to be eternall à priori but I deny that there is any errour in holding them to be eternall à posteriori in respect of their substance 2. Aristotle might have held the opinion of Intelligences without holding the heavens to be eternall for the eternity of the mover doth not necessarily inferre the eternity of the thing moved God is eternall so is not the world our soules are eternall so are not our bodies 3. You prove That Intelligences are superfluous because a naturall power intrinsecall to these bodies will serve the turne as well So you might

wit That is true which is affirmed by divine authority rather then that which is guessed at by humane infirmity For there he speakes of Philosophicall points which seeme to be contrary to Scripture but you are mistaken when you say that God descends to our capacity in naturall things and conformes his expressions to the mistake of our judgements as he doth apply himselfe to our apprehensions by being represented like a man There is infinite oddes betweene God and naturall things wee that are corporall cannot understand spirituall things much lesse that infinite Spirit but by familiar expressions yet such as doe in some sort represent his attributes to us as he is said to have eyes hands c. by which are signified his knowledge operations c. But for naturall things there was no such necessity because naturall men by natures light are able to understand naturall things so wee know what a circular motion is and if the Earth did truely move we should as soon apprehend the motion of it as we do the Suns motion therefore there was no need why God should descend to our capacity in affirming an untruth because wee cannot understand the Earths motion God then doth not conforme his expressions to the errour of our judgements for our judgements doe not erre in this but he speakes according to the truth of the thing which wee judge and apprehend as it is We apprehend the fire to be hot if you were of an opinion that it were cold which you may as well maintaine as the Earths motion you would doubtlesse tell us that the Scripture in saying the fire is hot applies it selfe to the vulgar errour or mistake of our judgements thus you may make the Scripture to serve you for defence of any absurdity by using such a subterfuge and running into such a starting hole 4. You examine those particular Scriptures which are urged to prove the Suns motion and you tell us that they are spoken in reference to the appearance of things and the false opinions of the vulgar and in the 75. pag. of your Booke you say it is a frequent custome for the holy Ghost to speake of naturall things rather according to appearance and common opinion then the truth it selfe I would 1. know if this consequence be Logicke the holy Ghost speakes of naturall things according to appearance frequently and of some ergo continually and of all or particularly of this to wit the Earths immobility The Scripture oftentimes speakes of God according to mens opinion and capacity as that he is angry that he repents c. Ergo the Scripture speaks still of God thus and so when the Scripture sayes that God is a Spirit or just or infinite or eternall that may be understood if your Logicke be good according to opinion or appearance this will prove a dangerous kind of reasoning 2. Why doth not the holy Ghost tell us in plaine tearmes that the Earth moves if it doth move what end hath hee to tell us that it is immoveable Is it because we are not capable to understand such a high mysterie that is ridiculous For is it a greater mysterie then Christs Incarnation Resurrection Ascension c. which are set downe in plaine tearms but indeed it is no mysterie it 's easie to understand the Earths motion if it did move Or is it because the holy Ghost would not give offence to the world in telling them plainly that the Earth moved being an opinion so repugnant to sense and reason Then doubtlesse he would not have told us that the Sun and Moone stood still at Ioshua's command or that the Sea was divided by Moses Rod and those other miracles of holy Writ as much repugnant to sense and naturall reason as the Earths motion is the holy Ghost useth not to hide or mince the truth for feare of offending men 3. There is great oddes betweene asseverations and allusions betweene the affirmation of a truth and an allusion to a fiction The Scripture speaking of perverse men that will not heare Gods word alludes to the fiction as you call it of the adder stopping his eare ergo when the Scripture speakes of the Earths immobility it speaks according to common opinion A goodly consequence as if you would say the Scripture speakes figuratively of Christ when it calls him a Lamb a Doore a Vine ergo when the Scripture speakes of the beheading of Iohn Baptist it speakes according to common opinion if there be no better Logicke taught in the Universities of the Moone we will never send our Sons thither 3. It is a rule in Saint Austin that we should expound Scripture as the Saints have expounded it before us Quomodo bac verba intellexerunt Sancti sic utique intelligenda sunt But name me that Saint that ever expounded these Scriptures which speake of the Heavens motion and of the Earths immobilitie according to appearance and common opinion Of St. Austins minde was the sixth generall Councell prohibiting any man to interpret Scripture otherwise then the Lights and Doctors of the Church have hitherto expounded them by their writings which Canon is confirmed in the eleventh Session of the third Lateran Councell 5. The ancient Fathers warne us that we doe not deviate or depart from the literall sense of Scripture so long as no absurdity doth follow thereupon now no absurdity doth follow upon the literall sense of the Earths immobilitie but upon your sense and exposition many absurdities follow therefore we must not depart from the literall sense 6. Where the holy Ghost speakes obscurely and figuratively in one place hee doth in another place open himselfe in plaine tearmes as Saint Hierome observes but speaking of the Earths immobilitie he useth still the same phrases neither doth he explaine himselfe otherwise in any one place which doubtlesse hee would have done if he had meant otherwise then hee spoake 7. I absolutely deny that the holy Ghost speakes of naturall things otherwise then in truth and reality and not as you say according to common opinions As for your expositions of these Scriptures which are for us and your instances against our opinion they are wrested and false and impertinent and of no soliditie as we will shew by our answer or reply to each of them severally 1. It is usuall with you to cut your throate with your owne sword and to bring passages against your selfe for you would prove that the Scripture speakes of the Heavens motion in reference onely to the Vulgars false opinion because The Sunne is in his glory like a Bridegroome and in his motion like a Gyant I answer if the Sunne be in his motion like a Gyant then sure the Sunne hath motion for how can that which is not be compared to that which is Similitudes cannot illustrate non entities 2. If the Sun were not a glorious creature David had not compared his glory to without motion he had not compared his motion to the motion