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A18981 The true ancient Roman Catholike Being an apology or counterproofe against Doctor Bishops Reproofe of the defence of the Reformed Catholike. The first part. Wherein the name of Catholikes is vindicated from popish abuse, and thence is shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome as now it is, is not the Catholike faith ... By Robert Abbot ... Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618. 1611 (1611) STC 54; ESTC S100548 363,303 424

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all that Christ taught and all that he commanded his Apostles to deliuer to all nations R. ABBOT THe wordes of mine answere are As they worshipped God so sauing ceremoniall obseruations we also worship him Consider now I pray thee gentle Reader from what braine M. Bishops illation proceedeth Then should we sacrifice to him Beefs Muttons Calues Lambs and our sacrificers should be of Aarons issue and order and we all circumcised Why M. Bishop are not all these in the number of ceremoniall obseruations Forsooth no I omit all their ceremonies saith he because M. Abbot excepteth them But did not M. Abbot in excepting all their ceremonies except circumcision and sacrifices and the whole Priest-hood of the law What is M. Bishop ignorant that circumcision and sacrifices and the whole rites and rules of the Leuiticall Priest-hood doe all belong to the ceremoniall law and that our Sauiour Christ in abrogating the ceremoniall law is vnderstood to haue abolished all these Is he to be set to schoole againe to learne what is meant by the name of ceremonies It were a shame to send a Doctor of Diuinity to his Catechisme for his credits sake I will referre him to a greater booke of Thomas Aquinas where he saith that a Tho. Aquin. sum 12. q. 101. art 4. Per tot In veteri lege singula praedicta Sacrificia Sacramenta sacra obseruantiae ceremoniae vocantur in the old law Sacrifices Sacraments sacred vtensils and implements and obseruances of singular or speciall conuersation are all called ceremonies and this I would haue him learne against the next time His next exception is against that I say As they prayed so and in the same wordes we also pray Then saith he they doe sometimes pray vnto God to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy on them as Moses did Which in part we acknowledge and professe to doe to pray God in like manner as Moses did to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy vpon the seede of Abraham but not to take mercy vpon vs. God bound himselfe to the seede of Abraham b Genes 17. 7. by an euerlasting couenant to be their God by reason whereof we beleeue that in this forlorne estate wherein they now be God still standeth entirely respectiue to the preseruation of that nation and though c Rom. 11. 28. as touching the Gospell they be enimies for our sakes yet as touching the election as the Apostle faith namely whereby God of old elected them to be his people they are beloued for their Fathers sakes Their present infidelity then is an interruption only not any finall reiection of them and the time will come when the effect of that loue will appeare by restoring that nation againe to the society and fellowship of the Church of Christ What hindereth then but as they are beloued for their Fathers sakes so we may pray God to remember their Fathers Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to shew his loue and to returne vnto them in mercy and compassion d 2. Cor. 3. 15 16. To take away the veile that is laid before their hearts that they may bee turned to the Lord Which notwithstanding we say not for our selues because God hath made no promise to vs properly and personally in Abraham but only e Genes 22. 18. 〈…〉 ls 3. 25. in the seede of Abraham f Gal. 3. 16. which is Iesus Christ by whom and in whom it is and not by Abraham himselfe that we are become the children of Abraham As for the text which he alleageth to proue that it was the expresse order and commandement of the Patriarchs that their posterity should so pray hee sheweth his ignorance in the abusing of it because no otherwise did Iacob say g Genes 48. 16. Vulg. Innocetur super cos nomen meam Let my name be named vpon them and the name of my Fathers Abraham and Isaac then as seuen women in a time of desolation are brought in by the Prophet saying to one man h Esa 4 1. Vulg. Innocetur nomen tuum super nos Let thy name be named vpon vs these women hereby crauing that they might be called the wines of such a man and the Patriarch desiring that Ephraim and Manasses should be seuerally reckoned for Tribes of the seed of Abraham and Israel as if they had beene immediately descended from him euen as Iacob himselfe a litle before expresseth his owne meaning saying i Genes 48. 5. Thy two sonnes Manasses and Ephraim which are borne vnto thee in the land of Aegypt before I came to thee into the land of Aegypt shall be mine as Ruben and Simeon are mine But now vpon this that hath beene said that they prayed God for those Fathers sakes to be mercifull to them M. Bishop being resolutely impudent to make all good that is starke naught groundeth a defence of a diuellish and horrible blasphemy which the Church of Rome had brought of old into the seruice of the Church Concerning Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury in the time of King Henry the second slaine then without due and lawfull proceeding but yet dying no other but an insolent rebell and traitour to his Prince they haue beene wont to pray thus k Breuiar in trāslat S. Thomae Cantuar. Jesu Christe per Thomae vulnera Quae nos ligant relaxa scelera Tu per Thomae sanguinem quem pro te impendit Fac nos Christe scandere quò Thomas ascedit O Iesus Christ by Thomas his wound Release the sinnes wherewith we are bound By the bloud of Thomas which for thee he did spend Make vs O Christ to climbe whither Thomas did ascend In which prayers wee see how by the wounds and bloud of this holy Saint of theirs they aske at Gods hands remission of sinnes and euerlasting life which Christian faith abhorreth to aske by any other but only the bloud of Iesus Christ Yea so harshly it soundeth in Christian eares and so contrary is it to the common sense of Christian profession as that the Rabbines of the Roman Synagogue were content euen for very shame to blot it out of their Portesse thereby acknowledging that it was by apostasie and errour that it came first in But M. Bishop a man more wise and learned or rather a man of harder fore-head then they were taketh vpon him to assure vs that there was nothing amisse in that praier and that it might very conueniently and lawfully haue beene retayned still And why Marry because of old time they prayed thus Remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and againe Lord remember Dauid and all his mildnesse For saith he if they did then desire God to remember the excellent vertues of his seruants and for their sakes to shew mercy vpon others why may not we doe the same now why may we not as well beseech God to remember the constant fortitude
of St. Thomas as they did the mildnesse of Dauid But against that if of his I oppose the exposition that Thomas Aquinas maketh of the Apostles wordes concerning the Iewes that they were beloued for their Fathers sakes vnderstanding the same of the elect of that nation l Tho. Aquin. in Rom. c. 11. Lect. 4. Quod non est sic intelligendum quasi merita praestita patribus fuerint causa aternae electionis 〈◊〉 sed qu●a Deus ab aterno elegit gratis patres filios hoc tamen ordine vt filij propter patres consequerentur salutem nō quasi merita patrum suffi● creat ad siliorum salutem sed per quandam abundantiam diuine gratiae 〈◊〉 hoc dicit quae in tintum patribus est ex●●bita vt prop ter promissiones eis factas etiam fily saluarentur Which saith he is not to be so taken as if the merits bestowed vpon the Fathers were the cause of the eternall election of the children but for that God from euerlasting chose freely both the Fathers and the children in such order notwithstanding as that the children for the Fathers sakes should obtaine saluation not as if the merits of the Fathers should suffice for the saluation of the children but he speaketh it according to an abundance of Gods grace and mercy which was so farre yeelded to the Fathers as that the children should be saued by vertue of the promises or for the promises sake made vnto their Fathers Here is then the true reason why they alleaged vnto God for themselues the names of the Fathers not for the merits of the Fathers but because of the promises that God had made vnto them Whereof we haue this for a certaine demonstration that wee no where finde any of the Fathers mentioned in that sort but only such to whom the promises of God haue in speciall manner beene made neither Abel nor Enoch nor Noe nor Iob nor Moses nor Esay nor any of the rest but only Abraham Isaac Iacob Dauid to whom God vouchsafed to doe that honour by speciall couenants and promises to tie himselfe both to them and to their seede Yea and it is further to be obserued that this was no ordinary manner of praying amongst them as wherby to begge of God remission of sinnes and eternall life as we see that Popish prayer doth but when God in anger and displeasure seemed ready m Deut. 9. 25. 26. to destroy their nation and so to forget the promise made vnto their Fathers or when they would seeke any fauour at Gods hands for the iustification of that promise then would they alleage to God the names of their Fathers as it were to put him in minde of those things which he had promised Thus doth Moses himselfe declare the meaning of that prayer in another place when he saith n Exod. 32. 13. Remember Abraham Isaac and Iacob thy seruants to whom thou swarest by thine owne selfe and saidst vnto them I will multiply your seede c. In which sort the three children in the fiery furnace are brought in praying vnto God in the Apocryphall additions to Daniel o Song of the three children Vers 35. 36. Take not away thy mercy from vs for thy beloued Abrahams sake and for thy seruant Isaacs sake and for thine holy Israels sake to whom thou hast spoken and promised that thou wouldest multiply their seede c. And thus it is said that p 1. Chro. 13. 23 the Lord had mercy on them and pittyed them and had respect vnto them because of his couenant with Abraham Isaac and Iacob So concerning Dauid also we reade that q 2. Chro. 21. 7. the Lord though he were much prouoked yet would not destroy the house of Dauid because of the couenant that he had made with Dauid and because he had promised to giue a light to him and to his sonnes for euer This couenant and promise Salomon pleadeth in his prayer vnto God r 2. Chro. 6. 16. Lord God of Israel keepe with thy seruant Dauid my father that which thou hast promised him and againe ſ Vers 17. Let thy word be verified which thou spakest vnto thy seruant Dauid And thus the Church of the Iewes in time of affliction remembreth God concerning Dauid t Psal 89. 49. Lord where are thy old louing kindnesses which thou swarest vnto Dauid in thy truth By all which we see that it was not vpon the persons or vertues of Abraham Isaac Iacob Dauid that those ancient faithfull rested themselues in their prayers but vpon the word the couenant the promise of God which he in mercy had vouchsafed to make vnto them And hereby we learne what to conceiue of those latter wordes which M. Bishop alleageth out of the Psalme u Psal 132. 11. Lord remember Dauid and all his mildnesse Where to make the wordes seeme somewhat the more effectuall to his purpose wee see how hee groundeth himselfe vpon an errour of translation For the wordes of the Psalme truly translated are not Remember Dauid and all his mildnesse but remember Dauid and all his affliction or trouble as not only x Hieron translat Psal iuxta Hebr. Memento Dauid omnis afflictionis cius Hierome in his translation opposed to the Septuagint in Greeke but also their owne interpreters y Pagn Ar. Mont. Vniuersa afflictionis eius Pagnine and Arias Montanus haue translated it Where vnder the name of affliction we vnderstand that feruent burning zeale and carefull trauell of minde wherewith Dauid was possessed and euen perplexed and anguished through desire that he had for the building of the Temple of God and for the setling of the Kingdome and state accordingly as God had promised vnto him With which desire he was so vehemently affected as here it is expressed as that hee sware and vowed to the Lord not to enter into his house nor to climbe vp to his bed not to suffer his eyes to sleepe nor his eye lids to slumber till he found the place for building the Temple of God the house of God wherin he would rest and dwell amongst them Salomon the sonne of Dauid whom I doubt not to haue beene the authour of this Psalme for that z Psal 132. ● c. a part hereof was vsed by him in a 2. Chro. 6. 41. the dedication of the Temple recommendeth herein to God the remembrance of this care and craueth successe thereto and that God would verifie in him all that he had thereupon said and promised to Dauid in that behalfe I haue before shewed how Chrysostome giueth the effect of this prayer in Salomons name b Chrysost in Psal 131. Quoniam genus ab co duxi quoniam cum tibi acceptum suiss●t cius stud●um diligentia dixisti te cius genus regnam erecturum propterea nunc haec pa●la conuenta à te exig mus Idem habet Basil in Psal cund Because I am
be The Apostle doth not say yee shall be the sonnes of God vpon such a condition but he saith Yee are sonnes euen as St. Iohn saith d 1. Iohn 3. 2. Now are we the sonnes of God yea and because yee are sonnes saith he therefore is it that God hath sent the spirit of his sonne into your hearts crying Abba Father which spirit yee could not be partakers of but that yee are sonnes This then being already certaine M. Bishop committeth a manifest errour to tie it to a future condition which he saith is not certaine Albeit in annexing this condition to the testimony of the spirit hee doth wilfully and manifestly falsifle the text For the Apostle doth not say as he pretendeth that the spirit beareth witnesse that we are the sonnes of God if we suffer with him but saith affirmatiuely This spirit beareth witnesse with our spirit that we are the sonnes of God And hauing so said he goeth on to shew what dignity we receiue by being the sonnes of God And if we be sonnes then are we also heires euen heires of God and ioynt-inheritours with Christ Now to declare how we be conioyned vnto Christ to be inheritours with him he addeth those wordes if so be we suffer with him that we may also be glorified with him not as to make a doubt of the witnesse of the spirit but only to signifie what way God hath appointed to bring them to their inheritance to whom the spirit giueth witnesse that they are the sonnes of God namely by the c Phil. 3. 10. fellowship of his afflictions to be made thereby conformable to his death by f 2. Cor. 4. 10. bearing out about in our bodies the dying of the Lord Iesus by g Col. 1. 24. fulfilling in our flesh the remainder of his afflictions And yet neither is this condition being taken so to be any vncertaine thing because what God hath determined and appointed he himselfe will effect and bring to passe and therefore the Apostle saying of them to whom that witnesse of the spirit is giuen h Rom. 8. 29. God hath predestinated vs to be made like vnto the image of his sonne we cannot in that case doubt but that the same God i Phil. 1. 29. for Christs sake doth giue vnto vs not only to beleeue in him but also if neede be and when time is to suffer for his sake We know not assuredly saith M. Bishop whether we shall suffer with him and constantly to the end beare out all persecutions But the faithfull doe beleeue and know that k 1. Cor. 10. 13. God is faithfull and will not suffer vs to be tempted aboue our strength but together with the temptation will giue the issue that we may able to beare it l Greg. Moral l. 28. cap. 7. Inter h●c etiam qui redemit non relinquit c. Nouit enim conditor noster quando exurgere persecutionis procellam sinat quando exurgentē reprimat Nouit pro custodia nostra restringe e quod contra nos egredi pro nostra excitatione permittit vt saeuiens nos diluat procella non mergat Amidst persecutions saith Gregory hereupon he that hath redeemed vs doth not forsake vs our Creatour knoweth when to suffer the storme to arise and when to stay it from rising He knoweth how to restraine that for the custody of vs which for the exercising of vs he suffereth to goe forth against vs that the raging storme may wash vs and not drowne vs. And in another place by occasion of the same wordes m Ibid. lib. 29. c. 12. Etiam tentationes aduersary dispensando modificat vt aut multae simul non veniant aut ipsae tatummodo quae ferri possunt illustratam tam à Deo anima tangant vt cum tactus sui ardore nos cruciant perfectionis incendio non exurant He so dispenseth and ordereth saith he the temptations of the aduersary as that they come not too many at once or that those only which may be borne doe touch the soule which God hath enlightened that albeit by the heate of the touch thereof they torment vs yet they may not by burning wast and consume vs. Vpon this therefore the children of God build themselues securely standing alwaies fully perswaded that n Rom. 8. 38. neither life nor death neither things present nor things to come shall separate them from the loue of God which is in Christ Iesus our Lord and bold to say with Dauid o Psal 118. 6. Heb. 13. 7. The Lord is on my side I will not feare what man can doe vnto me and with St. Paul p 2. Tim. 4. 18. The Lord will deliuer me from euery euill worke and will preserue me vnto his heauenly Kingdome And of this resolution St. Austin notably instructeth vs where saying that q August in Psal 32. Conc. 2. Secura expectans miserecorditèr promitte●tem miserecorditer veracitèr exhibentem Et donec exhibeat quid agamus Anima nostra patiens crit Domino Sed quid si in ipsa paticntia non durabimus Immò planè durabimus quoniam adiutor protector noster est the soule securely expecteth the Lord promising in mercy and performing in mercy and truth he further questioneth and answereth himselfe in this sort But till he performe his promise what shall we doe Our soule shall be patient to wait vpon the Lord. But what if we shall not endure or continue in our patience Yes verily we shall endure because he is our helper and defender M. Bishop teacheth the faithfull to say We cannot tell whether we shall endure or not but St. Austin instructeth them to another resolution by faith and trust in God Yes verily we shall endure because God is our helper and defender But against this he giueth instance by the wordes of Christ that there be some that for a time beleeue and in time of temptation goe away Concerning which wordes I haue answered him r Of the certainty of saluation sect 8. before and to answere him againe neede goe no further then to the very text whence he alleageth them He chargeth me with a tricke of a false merchant as if I strooke off the one halfe of the Apostles sentence that the other might seeme currant for me whether I haue so done or not the Reader is to iudge by that that hath beene said but here is a false tricke indeede committed by him in leauing out the words by which he saw and was aduertised before that his exception is made nothing worth By the seede sowen in stony ground our Sauiour describeth them ſ Luke 8. 13. who when they heare receiue the word with ioy but they haue no roote which for a while beleeue and in time of temptation fall away Where note first that Christ speaketh not this of the good ground but only of the stony ground and therefore it cannot be taken to appertaine to
there is no shadow of likelyhood that one should tell the Pope such a tale to his face or that Erasmus being in most points a Catholike would report it But for the inducing of his Reader to this opinion see a trick of this honest man For if he had truly quoted the place as he found it by me set downe he thought his Reader would perhaps looke the place and so would finde it to be as I had said But to preuent this whereas I had noted in the margent Erasm de rat Concion lib. 3. hee setteth downe in steede thereof Erasmus de ratione that the Reader vvhen he should search for such a booke of Erasmus and finde no such written by him might thinke me to be as very a cozener as Doctor Bishop himselfe now is found to be Let me tell him once againe that Erasmus hath written a vvorke entituled Ecclesiastes or de ratione Concionandi in g Pag. 291. as it was printed at Basil by Frobenius 1535. the third booke whereof he hath left to future memory those vvorthy stories of Robertus Liciensis which I haue before reported For conclusion of this passage he termeth me a poore Robin simple and poore-blinde that can finde nothing in the Apostles writings for their Catholike cause telling vs that he hath shewed the contrary already and will further shew it in those very points which I my selfe haue made choise of But what he hath done already we haue seene it remaineth to examine the rest that follow that it may appeare whether the simple Protestants doe well or not in taking the Apostle St. Paul to be wholly for them W. BISHOP §. 2. TO beginne with the first there is plaine testimony that we are iustified before God by workes which I cited before VVith God the doers of the law shall be Rom. 2. vers 13. iustified There is much for free-will witnesse this Let not sinne therefore raigne in your mortall body Ibid. 6. vers 12. 13. that you obey the concupiscence thereof but neither doe you exhibite your members instruments of iniquity vnto sinne but exhibite your selues to God of dead men aliue and your members instruments of iustice to God for sinne shall not haue dominion ouer you for you are not vnder the law but vnder grace See how the Apostle maketh it in the power and will of euery man indued with Gods grace either to doe well or to doe euill and that sinne hath no such dominion ouer them but that they may doe well if they will concurre with Gods grace Item that it is not grace which doth all but a man must worke with grace and exhibite the powers of his soule as instruments towards the producing of good workes which is flatly our doctrine of free-will And before we depart from this matter of iustification as M. Abbot doth very quickly you shall heare more of it out of the same Apostle he teacheth expresly that a man in the state of grace may fulfill the law in these wordes For that which was impossible to the law Ibid. cap. 8. v. 3. in that it was weakned by flesh God sending his Sonne in the similitude of the flesh of sinne euen of sinne damned sinne in the flesh that the iustification of the law might bee fulfilled in vs who walke not according to the flesh but according to the spirit Which is seconded in the thirteenth Chapter where he concludeth loue to be the fulnesse of the law hauing Ibid. v. 9. 10. before said that he who loueth his neighbour fulfilleth the law And as for that certainty of saluation which many Protestants bragge of the Apostle doth wholly dispossesse them of it first in the place before cited where he willeth them that stand right in the true Rom. 11. ver 20. faith to beware that they fall not and assureth them that they shall fall as others had done before them if they did not diligently looke vnto it Elsewhere he aduiseth vs with feare and trembling to worke our Philip. 2. ver 12. saluation Marke how two points of the Protestant doctrine be wounded in one sentence and two of ours confirmed both that we must worke our saluation it comes not then by only faith and that with feare and trembling we are not then assured of it before hand by the certainty of faith which excludeth all feare and doubt of it Now that we ought to haue a firme hope of saluation S. Paul teacheth vs VVe haue accesse through faith Rom. 5. vers 2. into this his grace wherein we stand and glory in the hope of the Sonnes of God Also For by hope we Ibid. 8. vers 24. are saued Item we giue thanks to God c. for the Clooss 1. vers 5. hope that is laid vp for you in heauen With whom S. Peter consorteth Blessed be God and the Father of 1. Pet. 1. vers 3. our Lord Iesus Christ who according to his great mercy hath regenerated you into a liuely hope vnto an incorruptible crowne c. laid vp in heauen Not to prosecute all the particular points of iustification which haue euery one good ground in the Apostle S. Paul as in that question may be seene the very faith whereby Abraham was and we are iustified is no such kinde of faith as the Protestants claime to be iustified by that is by an apprehension and drawing of Christs righteousnesse to themselues but that faith whereby we beleeue all things to be true which God hath reuealed as S. Paul declareth in the fourth to the Romans where he reporteth Abraham Rom. 4. vers 19. to haue beene iustified by beleeuing that God according to his promise would giue him a Sonne and make him the Father of many nations so that finally there is not a word in S. Paul which in his owne meaning maketh for any one peece of the Protestants iustification but heapes of testimonies for euery branch of iustification as we beleeue it R. ABBOT H 〈…〉 M. Bishop beginneth to muster his abundance of 〈◊〉 like an armie of men whereof some want a●mes some legges some looke another way some turne quite about and fight against him He setteth downe a number of places but whether they hit or crosse or come short what careth he let the Reader looke to that He saith they proue this or that but how they proue it id populus curet scilicet he is too busie to trouble himselfe about it As for example There is plaine testimony saith he that we are iustified before God by workes namely a Rom. 2. 13. with God the doers of the law shall be iustified But it doth not follow that because the doers of the law shall be iustified with God therefore we are iustified before God by workes because it doth not appeare that we are doers of the law Let him put in for his minor proposition But we are doers of the law and then his absurdity appeareth because