hindreth the matter offendeth and abaseth God and maketh all those playne traytors to God that vse it But to be euen with him M. St. for calling you traytors call you him agayne heretike call him a Vigilant an for it But then must ye make Chrisostome a Uigilantian with him that is euen as earnest agaynst this shifte of intercession as he For writing vpon the womaÌ„ of Canaan calling vpon Christ for hir daughters health he â—…arth 〈◊〉 meâ—… c. Haue mercy vpon me Beholde the phisosophical minde of the woman saying haue mercy vpon me I haue not sayth she a conscience of good workes nor a trust to godly lyfe to mercy I flee to the calme hauen of those that sinne to mercy I flee where iudgement ceasseth where vnspeakable saluation is Tell me O thou woman how art thou so bolde sithe thou arte a sinner and wicked to come vnto God I know sayth she what I will do Behold the womans wisdome she requireth not Iames she besecheth not Iohn she goeth not to Peter nor regardeth the company of the Apostles She sought not a mediator but in place of all them she tooke repentance to be hir companion which repentance filled the roome of an Aduocate and so she went vnto the chiefe fountayne For this cause sayth she he came downe from heauen for this cause he was incarnate and made man and I dare speake vnto him Aboue in the heauens the Cherubins dread him the Seraphins feare him and heere beneath euen a common woman sayth vnto him haue mercy vpon me A very bare saying but conteyning euen the mightinesse of saluation haue mercy vpon me For thys sayth she thou camest for this cause thou took est fleshe for thys cause thou wast made euen that which I am O wonderfull matter aboue is trembling beneath is confidence haue mercy vpon me I haue no neede of a mediatour haue mercy vpon me VVhat hast thou neede of mercie I seeke sayth she c. haue mercie vpon me If my daughter were dead she shoulde not suffer such things for then vvould I haue deliuered hir bodie into the bosome of the earth and in processe of time I should haue forgotten these euilles and my griefe vvoulde haue paused â–ª c. Marke the philosophie of the woman behold hir noble courage she went not to soothsayers shee called not wise men she sought not charms to tie about hir she fetched not those â—…orceresse women that vse to prouoke Diuels and augment the â—…ore vvith theyr enchauntmentes Shee lette go all suche falsehoodes of the Diuell shee contemned all purgings and shee came vnto the healthefull porte of oure soules c. The iudge commeth to thee flee thou to God the Iudge doth call for thee doe thou inuocate God whiche is on thy syde Is he farre from thee that thou shouldest goe to any place for him God is not included in place but he is always euen present at hand euen he that is not shut vp in place is holden yet by faith For if thou wilt enquire a man and demaund what he doth thou shalt heare he sleepeth or he is not at leysure â–ª or in deede euen his seruant vvill disdayne to answere thee But vnto God there is no nede of any of these things But wheresoeuer thou shalt be or wheresoeuer thou shalt inuocate him he hereth thee ther nedes no porter ther needes no mediatour there needes no seruant but say thou Haue mercie vpon me and by and by God will be present yea whyle thou yet speakest he sayeth here I am c. Let vs followe then this woman of Cananâ—…e And like wise on the same storie in an other place Mauult 〈◊〉 nostram c. God had leauer haue our own prayer which are guiltie than the prayer of other for vs. And again Non est opuâ—… paâ—…ronis apud deiâ—… c. There is no neede of patrons before God nor nede of gadding vp and down to flatter other But although thou art alone and haste no patrone and prayest by thy selfe yet shalt thou certainly obtain thy request for God doth not so easily graunt when other pray for vs as when our selues do pray yea though we be replenished with many euils And to conclude he saith Haecigitur scientes c. Knowing therfore these thinges let vs euermore flee to God who is both willing and able to deliuer vs of oure grieues But as for men if at any tyme we shoulde entreate them it behoueth first to meete with the porters to moue their parasites and iesters and oftentymes to goe along way about but in God there is no suche matter he is intreated without mediator without money without cost he graunteth our prayers Now although we sée by the Scripture and by these fathers being yet therfore no Heretikes that we néede not nor oughte to seeke so muche as any intercessoures by whiche terme ye woulde shifte off all the matter saying ye make them no helpers but intercessors only yet herein your shifte is not so miserable as your lie is manifest You inuocated Saintes as healpers yea and Sauioures also Your Primers can witnesse againste you youre Antiphonaes your Grayles your Massebookes Hyuâ—…als Legendes Portasses c. Haue ye forgotten this hymne to the blessed virgine Marie Virgo singularis inter omnes mitis nos culpa solutos 〈◊〉 sac et castos vitaÌ„ prâ—…fta puraÌ„ iter para tutuÌ„ vt videntes Iesum semper collaetemur O thou virgin singular among also meke make vs loose from sinne make vs meeke and chast giue vs a pure lyfe and make our iourney safe that beholding Iesus we may alwayes ioy Do ye not pray in your primer to S. Iohn and the virgin Mary Te etiam inuoco c. I inuocate thee also with Marie the mother of the same our sauiour that thou wouldest vouchsafto giue me thy helpe with hir O you two precious stones O heauenly Marye O Iohn O you two lightes from God shining before God with your rayes driue away the cloudes of my sinnes Doe ye not there pray to S. Christofer O thou martyr Christofer with the godlie honor of our Sauiour make thou vs in mind to deserue the loue of God Christ hath promised that what thou askest thou haste obtained giue vnto the sory people those things that at thy death thou askedst giue thou comfort to vs and take away the grief of our mynde make thou the accompt of the iudge to be milde to all men Pray ye not to S. George on horsebacke O George the noble martyr prayse and glory becommeth thee c. we beseeche thee with the bottome of our hart that our sinnes being washed away we may be ioyned with al the faithfull citizens of heauen Pray ye not to the. 11000. virgins O you eleuen thousande maidens Lilies of glorious virginitie and Roses of martyrdome defende you me in my life giuing to me your helpe and in my death shew your selues vnto
despiâ—…e not vs that put our trust in thee VVee trust in thee and thee our aide we inuocate c. In the 4. prayer Thou with Christ possessest the imperiall honor c. Cast thy godly eies on vs and search the inwarde partes of our harts c. In the fifth prayer VVithout thee euery soule is as an vnfruitfull tree worthy to be rooted vp and to be cast into the wasting fire Our soule lusteth after thee thou noble mother of God when wilt thou visit it come lady and sometimes visite thy seruants least our vertue â—…aint c. Our soule is wiâ—…hered and made baren bicause we haue not deserued to haue thy grace Come O mother come and moysten it that it may somtimes bring forth fruit that it may be fruitful being bedewed with thy grace and bring forth pleasant fruite to thee In the. 6. prayer VVhom God and thou the inuincible mother of God wilt vouchsafe to help they shall endure O Ladie heare the sighes of thy seruants and hasten to help them that trust in thee In the 7. prayer Looke downe from thy high trone of heauen where thou raignest with thy soÌ„ne c. Of al wretches he is most wretch that neglecteth to get thy grace c. he is iust indeede and worthy the felowship of the iust that deserueth in his seruice to please thee he shall not be confounded in the last iudgement when he shall see his Lady the iudges mother and shall see thee with him iudging him He shall cast his eyes on thee and he shall not treÌ„ble for thou wilt not forget him c. In all our grieues let vs runne to the loue of thee c. In the 8. prayer Haile prayse of the continent vertue and strength of the maried mother of the fatherlesse succour of widdowes haile firme and vnmoueable hope of all the faithful hayle myrth and ioy of Christians c. behold we coÌ„mend body and soule to thee yea all the gouernance of our whole life we coÌ„mende into thy holy haÌ„ds we offer our selues to serue thee dispise not our oblations c. In the. 10. prayer Be present with vs O lady as we trust in thee that art the remedie of all euill c. that thou being our guide we may come streight to heauen Now M. St. is all this neither nothing els but Ora pro nobis well I could yet bring more more horrible stuffe thaÌ„ this Yea it were infinite to tedious to rake out those most blasphâ—…mous prayers that all your other bookes haue Your self could neuer abide the reading for shame nor the godly susteyne y hearing for horrour to see God so blasphemed spoiled of al his honor of that which he is a ielouse God wil coÌ„municate no part therof to other Only to swéeten your lips withal ye shal heare a few stories out of your legende other your holy bookes what ye ascribe to saints And first to begin euen at the intercession that ye say the Saints make for vs chiefly the virgine Marie whom ye make farre more mercifull than christ To proue this ye tell vs That a certaine wicked sinner going about his sinne by the way as his manner was to salute hir Image with an Aue beholding the Image of the virgin and hir sonne in hir armes he saw that the bloud distilled from the childe as it did from his woundes on the Crosse. VVhich when he saw being astonied thereat he said O ladie who hath done this to whome the virgin answered Thou and such sinners do Crucifie my Sonne againe And she would haue wiped and stanched the bloud but she could not To whom ê™ the sinner O mother of mercie make intercession for me She answered to him You sinners call mee the mother of mercie ye make me the mother of miserie and sorow And he said not so most godly ladie â–ª but remember that thou art the aduocate of sinners and make intercession for me And the mother said O most godly sonne for the loue of me be merciful to this sinner And hir sonne said to hir No mother nor thou oughtest to be grieued in that I heare thee not For I prayed once my father if it were possible to saue maÌ„kind some other way and take from me the cup of my passion and he would not heare me And she sayd O my son remember that I cherished thee with motherly loue and fed thee with my papps forgiue then this sinner O mother ê™ the sonne I will shew that by good right I am not bound to heare thee VVe plead not right ê™ the mother but flie to mercie and therefore for thy mercies sake be mercifull to this sinner To whom hir sonne said I prayde my father twice that if it were possible the cup should parte from me and he heard me not To whom his mother answered O my sonne remember my trauailes and paines that I haue susteyned with thee and giue me this sinner O Mother quoth the Sonne be not vexed bicause I will not heare thee but remember that I prayed thrice and was not hearde VVith that the mother set downe hir Sonne and would haue fallen downe to his feete VVhich hir Sonne seing saide vnto hir what is that ye will doe Mother I will quoth she lie before thy feete with this sinner so long till thou graunt him pardon God forbid this mother quoth the sonne for it is ordayned in the diuine lawe that the sonne ought to honour his mother and iustice concludeth that the lawgiuer fulfill himself the law Then sith I am thy sonne and thou my mother I will honour thee in this sinner and for thy sake forgiue him al his sinnes and in tokeÌ„ of peace betwene him and me let him come and kysse my wounds and so the sinner healed all the wounds of Chryst with his kisse How say you M. Stapleton was not this propre stuffe to be printed euen for information to Preachers to instruct the people with almost so manie blasphemies as there bee lines besides the ridiculousnesse of the whole tale But I tell it for your conceytes of hir intercession making hir a great deale more mercifull than Chryst. The like tale within a Sermon or two after or rather a more fonde tale he telleth of an vnthrift that hauing wasted his goods gaue himselfe to the diuell for riches Of whome the diuell required that he should renie the highest and so he did To whom the diuell aunswered that his worke was yet vnperfecte excepte he renounced the mother of the highest for it is she that doth vs most harme For looke whome the sonne by iustice destroyeth the mother by mercie and pardon doth saue VVhiche the yong man hearing he was sore adrad and troubled aboue measure and answered he woulde neuer doe it To whome the Coniurer sayde you haue denied the Creator stick not man to denie the Creature
in heauen things that are in earth things visible things inuisible whether they be Maiestie or Lordship either rule or power al things are created by him and in him be is before all things and in him all things haue their being and he is the head of the bodie that is to wit of the congregation he is the beginning and first begotten that in all thinges he might haue the preheminence for it pleased the father that in him all fulnesse should dwell and by him to reconcile all things to him selfe and to set at peace by him through the bloud of his Crosse both things in heauen and things in earth Here is no mencion at all of hir but all of him master Stapleton for whome all things were made But euen these properties of Christ this blasphemous doctour applieth to hir and sayth your Church doth so For a little before he sayth Sed hoc loco c. But in this place is to be asked whether the blessed virgin were brought forth before all creatures For of hir sayth the Church that saying Eccle. 24. Ab initio ante secula creata sum From the beginning and before the worlde was I made and againe in the Epistle of this solemnitie the Virgine is brought in saying that sentence Prou. 8. The Lord hath possessed me from the beginning of his wayes before he made any thing euen from the beginning from euerlasting I was ordeyned and from of olde before the earth was made as yet the depthes were not and I was alreadie begotten as yet the fountaynes flowed not with water nor as yet the mountaynes in their great compasse were setled before all the hilles was I begotten VVhich wordes doe seeme so to sounde that she was brought forth before the bringing forth of any other thing Who is he that knoweth not that these wordes are spoken of the eternall sonne of God begotten before all ages and is euen one wyth that S. Iohn sayth In the beginning was the worde and yet bicause it is spoken in the feminine gender vnder the name of the eternall wisedome of God he most ignoranâ—…ly and Idolatrously transferreth it to the virgin Marie Neyther he alone but he sayth your Church doth so so that all your whole Church is a blasphentous Church And thus ye ascribe the promise of the blessed seede to the blessed virgine saying not it but shee shall tread downe the serpents heade So where Dauid sayth Non est qui se abscondat à â—…alore 〈◊〉 None can hide him from his heate ye say none can hide him from hir heate Likewise where the wisedome of God sayth In the welbeloued Citie gaue he me rest in Hierusalem was my power Iacobus de Udragine applieth it to hir saying Primo pater c. First the father hath made hir mightie to helpe Eccle. 24. in Hierusalem was my power for she is made so mightie that she can help vs in life in death and after death c. Againe where Christe sayth I am exalted like a Palme tree aboute the bankes and as a rose Palme in Hierico as a fayre Oliue tree in a pleasant fielde that ascribeth he to hir saying Sunt enim quidam c. There are some Saints who when they are prayed vnto follow the information of their conscience and therefore often tymes they will not pray to God for vs bicause they haue a conscience that they are not worthie to be heard Other Saintes there are that when they are prayed vnto they follow the streightnesse of Gods righteousnesse And therefore if they be desired and knowe that this is not fitte for Gods iustice they dare not aske but the blessed Virgin neither looketh to conscience nor to iustice but to mercie As who should say let them keepe their consciences to themselues that lust and let them that will loke to Gods iustice I will alwayes hold me to mercie and for this so excellent Modestie shee sayth of hir selfe Eccle. 24. I am as a fayre Oliue in the fieldes Yea you say shée hath such excéeding and excelling mercie that not onely it passeth all the Saints but that illud quod dicitur Eccl. 18. de Domino potest dici etiaÌ„ de Domina c. That the which is spoken Eccle. 18. of the Lorde may be spoken of the Ladie The mercie of a man is towarde his neighbour but the mercie of the Lorde is ouer all flesh Thus ye robbe God of his glory to adourne hir attributing all to hir And say that the father hath written in hir his power where Christ sayth contrarie all povver is giuen me of my father in heauen and earth c. that the sonne hath vvritten in hir his vvisedome that the holy ghost hath vvritten in hir his goodnesse and mercie Againe the father hath made hir his Treasorer vvhereby shee hath conquered the Deuill and povvreth into cur mindes diuine knovvledge The sonne hath made hir his Chamberlayne The holy ghost hath made hir his Cellerer The vvhole Trinitie hath made hir Almosiner of heauen Shee is Chauncellour to the holy ghost shee is Porter of Paradise Ipsa nanque est ostium c. For shee is the doore by the vvhich vve enter into Paradise vvhich by Eue vvas shutte and by hir is opened Ipsa enim est quae nos suis meritis in atrium principis introducit For it is shee that by hir merits bringeth vs into the porch of the Prince VVhervpoÌ„ Ioh. 18 it is sayde A Damsell that was the doore keeper the blessed virgine calleth hirselfe an handemayde or Damsell let in Peter into the Princes porche Ipsa nanque virgo For euen the virgin is the vvindovv vvherby God beholdeth vs vvith the eie of mercie Uirgo autem Maria. The Virgin Marie is the throne of mercy grace and glorie she is the Sunne to the iust the Moone to the Saints the faithful vvitnesse to sinners the aduocate of mankinde the drop that softneth all hardnesse There vvere three things that once vvere hard God that receyued none to mercie Death that svvalovved vp all to hell the Deuill that enraged vvith enmitie But the Virgin Marie so mollified God that he receiued all men to mercie She so trodde death vnder foote that novve he can not take avvay the Saints Shee ouercame the Deuill that he can novve â–ª deceyue none but him that lust to be deceyued that novv shee may say I forsake you not but as a drop I abyde vvith you bicause my odour abydeth vvith you vvherevvith I haue mollifyed God I haue troden dovvne death I haue ouercome the Deuill This is one droppe of hir grace master Stap. but what can ye ascribe more to al the droppes of the bloud of christ To conclude ye make hir all in all Shee â—…lenseth vs from our sinnes â–ª shee lightneth vs from ignorance she strengthneth vs from our infirmities Et per ipsam virg c. and by the blessed
the Letanie for saying so often Lorde haue mercy vppon vs miserable sinners and for saying Amen to the curses recited against the wicked Besides that I haue shewed alreadie how they iustifie them selues with puritie of nature with fréewill with preparatiue workes meritorious more than mâ—…ritorious workes of perfectioÌ„ What say ye to the same Montanistes that vnder the pretence of offerings craftely gathered and extorted of the people great summes of monie But not the hundreth parte that the popish Priests offrings brought in What say ye againe to the Montanistes with whom the Prophicieâ—… of Priscilla and â—…aximilla were in greater honour than the holy Gospels of Iesus Christe as likewise the blinde Prophecies of the Papistes to the which they giue more credite than to the true Prophets that haue set forth Gods worde What say ye once againe to Montanus that taught the dissoluing contemning of Matrimâ—…nie for religioÌ„ sake in all which thingâ—… how nere your Papists follow Montanus steppes is very apparant to the easie conferrer What say ye to the Tessarescedecatitae which vsed and alleaged forged bookes in the Apostles names called Apocrypha as the Papistes make Canonicall the bookes so called besides that they alleage and set out their S. Thomas gospell Nichodemus gospell The actes of S. Peter The fables of Lazarnâ—… the birth life death and assumption of the blessed virgin and many such other counterfaite bookes to establishe their Masse Purgatorie Reliques Traditions and other such errours by them What say you to the Seueriani of Seuerus that saide a wench called Phâ—…lumene was enspired with the holy ghost to foretel things to come to whom declaring his dreames burnings of his minde she would warne him secretly as it were of things to come and that she should sée phantasies come vnto hir in the likenesse of a childe which childe appering would now and then say he were Christ now and then S. Paule that the spirite told hir such things as she told the people that she wrought such miracles of which this was the chiefe that she woulde put a great loafe into a glasse hauing a narrow mouth and with the tippe of hir fingars take it out againe vnbroakeÌ„ that she eate nothing els but that as sent hir from god Compare these things with the Popish practises in their visions trances and miracles of their she â—…incts S. Bridgits Reuelations the trances of the holy mayde in Kente the Pâ—…ell of Fraunce the she saint that Sir Thomas More telleth of in his booke of Pilgrimages and sée how much they differ What say you to the Taciani that would admitte none into their rules and orders were they men or women that renounced not Mariage as none may be admitted to the Popish orders or rules of their religions that haue not vowed not to marie What say you to the Alogiani that as is saide before stood vppon vnwritten verities and reiected the written worde of God What say ye to the Angelici that bowed them selues downe in the worship of Angels What say ye to the Apostolici which most arrogantly called them selues by this name as do your Popes call theÌ„ selues Apostolicall and they receiue not into their communion those that vse wiues as your Papistes will admitte no married Priests to consecrate at their Masse nor they receiued any that professe any proprietie of their goods as your Monkes and Friers do pâ—…tende of whome saith S. Augustine Quales habet Ecclesia Monachos Clericos plurimos Such as the Church hath many MoÌ„kes Clerkes No meruayle then if your Monkes and Priests do so now for the Heresie of your Apostolical as ye cal it but in déede apostaticall Church herein is of faire antiquitie What say you to the Manichaei with whom ere while ye falsely charged vs They forbid as S. Augustine saithe mariage so much as in them lieth They saide that by chastitie Prayers and Psalmes they purged their liues sent them to heauen They craked of false AbstineÌ„cie and Continencie to deceyue the simple They boasted that they forsooke all things for God and did arrogate to them selues all the blessings mencioned in the Gospell They added and tooke from the Scriptures so much as they pleased pretending they had bene or might be corrupted and preferred the bookes called Apocrypha They said the promise of Iesus Christ concerning the holy ghost the comforter was fulfilled in their Archmanichée as the Papists besides all the other aforesayde say the same promise of the holy ghost is fulfilled in their Arch prelate the Pope And as Manicheus called himselfe the Apostle of Iesu Christ so your Pope in his Bulles prefixeth the authoritie Apostolicall of Peter and Paule Moreouer they reiected flesh egges and milke which the Papists dâ—… on certaine dayes they reiected also the proprietie of goodes as due the begging Friers What say ye to the Hierachitae that likewise as these would receyue none into their societie but vnmaried men and women Such were also your Aerians whome falsly you obiect to vs being more like to them your selues admitting none but suche as were continent as renounced the worlde and would possesse nothing of their owne What say ye to the Psalliani and Euchitae that were all giuen to mumbling vp of prayers and sayde that Monkes ought not to labour to get their liuing and therefore they professed themselues to be Monkes bicause they woulde do no worke but pray Whom Erasmus in his defence against the Sorbonists being appeached onely for saying Christuâ—… in orando damnat multiloquâ—…um Christ doth condemne much babling in prayer likeneth the Papists vnto Denique Psalliani siue Euchitae c. To conclude the Psalliani or Euchitae haue augmented the beadroll of Heretikes who lyuing in idlenesse dispatched vp an heape of psalmes with a marueylous rolling of the tongue What say ye to the Pattalorinchitae which did so giue themselues to silence that at suche times as they thought they must holde their peace they would lay their fingers on their nose and lippes least they should speakâ—… a worde as I noted before of the Basilidians both whome herein your religious men resembled What say ye to the Aquarij which mingled water with wine in the Sacrament as all the Papist do What say you to the barefoote Heretikes that walked vp and downe barefoote and woulde weare no shooes like the barefoote Friers What say you to the Priscillianists that had this rule among them Iura periura secretum prodere nolâ—… Sweare and forsweare bewray not the secrete not onely like the dissembling Papistes practise among vs that will sweare and forsweare themselues to the Prince with false hollow heartes in truth â–ª and yet in falshood trustie to their confederates nor will bewray their secrete conspiracies but also like the rule of your Pope and all his perfect faythfull ones Nulla â—…ides tenenda
naughtinesse of the argument We graunt that to iudge aright of Ecclesiasticall matters is a great gift of God but that the iudgemeÌ„t of ecclesiasticall matters is onelie to be restrained to binding and losing as you here define what you meane by iudging in matters of faith this is a manifest falsehood True it is that binding and losing can not rightly be withoute iudgement nor withoute right iudgement and therefore your Pope and you doe erre so often herein both binding that that should be losed and losing that that should be bound errante claue as ye terme it your key erring and erring also not onely in things to be bounde or losed but in the power it selfe of binding losing too Yet notwithstanding binding and losing and the iudgement requisite in binding and losing are two distinct and seueral things and iudgement reacheth furder to other things also euen in the Priest himselfe besides the Princes iudgement And therefore as this definition of iudgement in matters of faith is preposterously brought in for ye oughte before to haue defined what ye ment by iudgemente so is it false for other matters of faithe require iudgement besides binding and losing Now where you say this power commeth not of the principles of our corrupt nature but of the free mercie of God you say truth But that ye adde the mercie of God is made manifest vnder the time of the newe testament partlye by the law written partly not written is spoken ambiguously For that Princes iudged in matters of faith was also made manifest in the olde Testament but that Princes haue power to binde and lose we graunt is neither manifest nor couert neither in the olde or newe As for the newe lawe to be deuided into written and not written is another error and impertinent to this question Your vnwritten lawe of the new Testament we stand not vpon But to affirme that by neither way written or vnwritten no power is giuen to kings in Ecclesiasticall matters that we denie and your self haue rather confuted it thaÌ„ hither to confirmed it But to confirme it ye bring out this reason Neither were thene at the beginning any Christian Kings to whom Christ shoulde haue committed any power nor the Apostles gaue any rule according where vnto the kings should iudge of Ecclesiasticall causes That there were no Christian kings then is not materiall For by this rule they should be no defenders of the faith neither bicause Princes were not theÌ„ defenders of it But that the Apostles gaue no rule whereby they should iudge is false For whosoeuer should iudge shuld iudge by gods word and this rule Christ and his Apostles gaue in generall But that Princes mighte iudge is both proued from the olde Testament and by the text that M. Saunders himselfe citeth out of the new yea by that he saith immediatly For if any man say kings are appointed iudges in a cause of the faith only bicause by Baptisme they are made spiritual meÌ„ who iudge all things and the spirites do trie those things that are of God this in dede I graunt to be true in the kynde and maner of the priuate but not of the publique iudgement For it is another thing when thou art a member of the Catholike Church nor preferrest thy selfe before thy pastours what is necessarie for thee priuately to Iudge and this the vnction teacheth and another thing to take vpon thee power to teache others and to prescribe to thy Pastors what they ought to do or teache when thou art not called to the publique ministerie of the Church as Aaron was We know there is a difference betwéen priuate and publique Iudgement But that this place of S. Paule The spirituall man Iudgeth all things is only to be vnderstoode of prinate Iudgement is but the priuate iudgement of M. Saunders But it is well that he graunteth priuate iudgement to euery Christian man Neither is it any reason then it shuld be debarred irom any Christian Princes neither is it anye reason that the Prince although in his priuate Iudgement â–ª rightly iudging a matter of faithe to be true shoulde not approue set forth the same publiquely by his princely authoritie And so his priuate Iudgement directs his publique Iudgement For a Prince is not only a priuate man but a publique man also not that he may doe all things of his owne priuate or publique Iudgement nor take vpon him the publique ministerie of the pastour in teaching being not called as Aaron was for this is not ascribed to the Prince bicause he giueth a publique Iudgement in respect he is a publique person but his Iudgement is a publique approbation and establishing of that that is alreadie by others Iudgement â–ª iudged to whome the discussing appertaineth In which discussing althoughe the godly learned clergie being called as Aaron was haue the greatest skill and charge of Iudgement yet the lay men suche as are also learned and godly haue a publique Iudgement too Or else why saith Panormitane we shoulde more beleue a lay man alleaging scripture than the whole councell besides but nowe the truth being once founde out by these learned Iudgements the Princes publique Iudgement as it called them together as it gaue them their charge so it prescribeth what the pastors ought to doe and teache therin without any preiudice to the spirituall pastors Iudgement in the function of his doing and teaching Now hauing thus set downe his owne assertions he will enter on the other part to confute our obiections And first he alleageth this reason of the protestantes In all the olde Testamente we sée gouernors and Kings both to haue prescribed to the priests what they ought to doe in ecclesiasticall matters and also to haue remoued them froÌ„ the ministerie that haue negligently done their dutie To this obiecton M. Saunders answere is this that this reason holdes not from the olde Testament to the new If this came so to passe in the olde Testament saith he yet no reason shuld compell that the same shuld be so in the new Testament sith the reason of the eccl. gouernment is changed And are you changed too M. Saunders that saide before after say make all your booke of it that the ecclesiastical kind of gouernment hath bene alwayes one and that is a viâ—…ble Monarchie euen from Adam to Pope Pius â–ª 5. and said that if the gouernement be changed the Churche must needes be changed tâ—…o and made the gouernement of the olde Testament to be a figure of the new But now that you are beaten with your owne arguments you say they hold not by reason the ecclesiasticall gouernment is changed But I see Maister SauÌ„ders you woulde deale with vs as the riche man dealt with his poore neighbor When the poore maÌ„ complained saying I beseeche your worship be good vnto me for my Cowe hath goared your Bull. What hath he quoth the riche maÌ„