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A10910 [The displaying of an horrible secte of grosse and wicked heretiques, naming themselues the family of loue with the liues of their authours and what doctrine they teach in corners. Newly set foorth by I.R. Whereunto is added certeine letters sent from the same family mainteyning their opinions, which letters are aunswered by the same J.R.] Rogers, John, fl. 1560-1580.; Batman, Stephen, d. 1584. 1579 (1579) STC 21182; ESTC S100037 92,004 238

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vtter their mindes to any other that is not of their companie I can be both an eye witnes and eare witnesse which is a very subtil persuasion of sathan For that man that wil not vtter his griefe or sicknes and where the paine is howe or when cā he be healed it is an vnpossible cure Euen so in the Family they are so close and so warie in their speach that they will not vtter their griefe to any that can ease them Therfore so long as they continue in that minde they are remedilesse I shall not néede to confute their doctrin by the testimonies of holy scripture which in déede is easie to be done I doe reserue the same to some zealous pastour in Christs schoole which I dout not but as occasion serueth they wil be willing to perfourme It is ynough for me to beginne the skirmishe to display the Familie to make readie the way to discrie their force that others may come after and ouerthrowe their camp and put them to silence for euermore He that will rightly consider the originall of this heresie with the Authours what persons taught it first and when it did increase and growe shall sée that euen when the Gospell began to shine againe being couered with clouds and darkened with dreames of men then began Sathan in Dauid George to enuie the prosperitie of the Gospell Dauid died An. 1556. and then Henrie Nicholas supplyed his turne and followed his steppes not in Dauids name but in his owne name as a Prophet sent of God to rebuke the world and to bring them as he saith to the right wayes But more truely may it be affirmed that they peruert the simple which were entred into the right and plaine wayes of Christe our Lorde and haue brought them from the pure waters which are drawne out of the fountaine which the holy Ghoste by the scriptures doth offer vnto vs and doe giue them dregges and puddle which vngodly men haue digged out of the myre of their owne imagination and do deliuer it as drink sent of God to quench their thirst but they deceiue them most shamefully For to all our senses it doeth appeare to be ranke poyson and doeth slay the soules of euery one that doth vsually drink thereof If these simple admonitions may doe the least of you good giue glorie and prayse vnto the Lorde our God if not I haue discharged my dutie whiche I owe vnto Christe Iesus and his Churche in letting you sée the beginners of your bewitched follie And I shall not let to make my humble prayers vnto the Lorde our GOD euen for his sonne Christe Iesus sake that he will open your eyes and mollifie your stonie heartes that you may beholde the Lorde Iesus which was crucified for you who with his bloud hath cleansed washed your sinnes be they neuer so great that in his goodnesse and mercy he wil take away this erronious spirit wherewith ye are possessed and create in you a right spirite to be obedient to his will and not to the will of mortall men which seduce you and leade you headlong to destruction and that he wil bestowe vpon you his grace to sée rightly into his word without the vaine shadowes of allegories which deceiue you and leaue to vs nothing certaine and that you may ●leaue vnto the Gospel of Christ Iesus and forsake the vain trust you haue in your Deifying and to liue without sinne which I instantly desire our Lorde God to bring to passe for his sonne Christ Iesus sake Amen Certein absurd speeches taken out of the bookes of H. N. as errours of the Familie of Loue. 1 Howe and in what manner the Lorde God hath appeared to H. N. THE Lord God of heauen moued me in his minde or spirit his power compassed me with a rushing noise and the glorie of the same God of heauen became great in my spirite in such wise that the clearenes of God wholy inuironed me and shone round about me where thorough y sight of mine eyes became clearrer then the christall and mine vnderstanding brighter then the sunne When I then perceiued or vnderstoode it so the Lords meaning and will vnto me euen such as his beeing or essence spake vnto me For the being of God gaue forth his sound and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through the spirit of his loue all these wordes 2. The secrets of our hearts are knowne to H. N. For although ye dissemble with mee and howe craftily so euer ye couer you before me yet are neuerthelesse all the counsels and falshoodes of your hearts manifest before mee and so muche the more naked and bare before the eyes of my heart and spirite For no beloued no ye can not bide couered before me nor before the face of my God. 3 H. N. can no more erre then Christ and his Apostles They doe iudge Moyses the Prophets Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H ▪ N. to erre and misse the right rather then to acknowledge them selues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying 4. The scriptures are fulfilled in H. N. and his Familie To the end nowe in the very last the Scripture and all what God hath spoken by his holy Prophetes and what is written of Christ should in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honour and glory of God and to our ioy like as it standeth written Luke 1. ca. 24. vers 44. This is assuredly the heartie mercifulnesse of God ouer vs nowe in the last time to the end the glorious Lordlynesse of GOD should in vs become manifested and declared and the Scripture fulfilled 5 No man must mistrust H. N. in doctrine nor any euill to be in him They ought to beware that they distrust not the eldest in the Familie of Loue ▪ nor suspect any maner of euill or vnwisedome by him nor yet also in any wise persuade them selues that the exercises documents and instructions whiche are taught or set foorth before them by the Father of the Familie of Loue or oldest Elder are too slight too childish or too vnwise for them to followe after or to obey but with perfect hearts humbly and singly minded euen as good willing children vnto obedience to receiue the same instructions proceeding out of the wisdome counsel of the Eldest and to stand euē so submitted always vnto the manly oldnesse in the loue 6 The maner of shrift vsed in the Familie It is expedient that they make maninifest their whole hearte with all their counselles myndes willes and thoughtes together with all their doinges dealings and exercises naked and bare before the Eldest in the Familie and not to hide any thing bee it what it is and al what their inclination and nature draweth them vnto and al things wherwith they become tēpted in their heatrs If ye chaunce to offende or committe sinne confesse the same before the priestes and Elders and let all appeare nakedly
dominion in vs it raigneth not in vs we are not seruauntes to sinne this the scripturs teach in many places but that we shall quench it vtterly or subdue if with all the motions thereof the scriptures teach vs no such doctrine being rightly vnderstoode Looke I pray you what that holy vessell saint Paul spake of himselfe after he was regenerate Romaines 7. verse 14. I am carnal sold vnder sinne for I allowe not that which I doe For what I would that doe I not but what I hate that do I. It is not I that doe it but sinne that dwelleth in me Againe verse 23. I delight in the law of God concerning the inwarde man but I see an other law in my members rebelling against the lawe of my minde and leading mee captiue vnto the lawe of sinne which is in my members When he entred farre into the consideratiō of this his frailtie he exclaymed said verse 24. A wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me frō the body of this death And in these extreame considerations and battell which we haue with sinne cōtinually euen vntil death make an end saint Paul by the spirite of God doth plainely arme Gods children and sheweth the remedie in like cōflicts saying I thank god through Iesus Christ our Lord c this is brought to passe by him that sinne is not imputed vnto vs But as Dauid saide Blessed is the man whose sinnes are couered And this is wrought only without vs not in vs as you imagine So y our battell is continual and neuer ended in vs vntill we be dissolued and at rest with Christ Iesus contrary to your assertion You sée no cause you say that we shoulde be enimies to so good a doctrine as you professe If your doctrine were good and agréeable to the holy scriptures we woulde embrace it but because it is contrarie there vnto we reiect it To forsake that false sinfull nature with you we simply agrée but with the Poet we say Naturam expellas furca tamen vsque recurret To be at defiance there with and bidde battell against it we agrée but to conquer it to kill it or subdue it vtterly in this life that we deny That God can doe this by his powre in vs we denie not but that he will do it in vs as you affirme the scriptures allowe not of For it standeth not with the glorious office of Christ Iesus that such perfection and such a conquest of sinne should be wrought in vs but that we féeling our miseries our wants our weakenesse● might sue by peticion in earnest prayer for strength for mercy for deliuery which all the Godly in Christ his church haue euer done For we are neuer nearer vnto our God nor neuer more accepted with him then when we feele sinne as a burthen or loade lye heauely vpon vs nor neuer further of then when by illusion of sathans persuasion we imagin sinne to be quenched or conquered All such as ouercome in the battell you say shall knowe the name written in the white stone mencioned by Iohn You say further that such as haue no lust to ouercome that earthly sinfull nature but haue more lust to take part therewith knowe nothing thereof although they boast of their knowledge or fréedome neuer so much This knowledge therefore you would conclude to be in you and not in vs Your knoweledge we enuie not nor your séeking to serue the Lord vprightly For our whole care studie minde is bent to do the same and we pray you hartely to ioyne your selues to vs that you and we may serue the Lorde our God as he hath commaunded and not H. N. and his precepts Looke into the holy bookes of our God and deale not with the darke riddles of H. N. Set not vp his bookes in your mindes so highly The Scriptures are our comfort and our stay without H. N. He exerciseth a greate Popedome among you You had rather speake and vse his phrases not found in holy scripture then content your selfe with the phrases of the holy Ghost You often mencion these tearmes the lying being the vpright fréedome Godded with God the newest day the louely being of the loue c. Are these to be founde in the holy Scripture or are they not deuised by H. N. to bring admiration to his doctrine by straunge and vnaccustomed speach If the loue of God be in you as you woulde haue vs beléeue it is loue the Lorde Iesus and his holy worde and let H. N. with new tearmes and phrases goe Belieue not that God hath wrought in him any such a worke as you pretend examine his doings and sayings better you wil credit nothing that is spoken against him be it neuer so true you except it as lyes and heresies what soeuer testimony his neighbours famyliers who knewe him long vppon their oth shall affirme but according to your conceiued opinion you like him you imbrace him you onely credit his testimonies dislyking others which if you continue as you begin there is neither hope nor helpe nor conference that can doe you good vntill the Lorde shake away the mist of darknesse which ouer shadoweth your eyes through the doctrine of H. N. that you cannot beholde the bright beames of Christ his glorious gospell Your authors doctrine is not sufficiently knowen vnto some of you the fragments whereof you are but meanly acquited with the secreat part of his purpose I doubt as yet is not extant and more of his works are abroad then are come to your handes therefore for the loue of God looke better into his minde and credite not his bare sayings without warrant of holy scripture neither beléeue that almightie God hath wrought in him any such extraordinary power as is imagined The cause the moued me to write these thinges is a little booke came to my handes of late called Mans falling away his comming againe and Lordlynesse In the first section you shall finde this written worde for word H. N. his words See and marke ye beloued in the beginning when god made al things wel then was the Lorde one Lorde of his kingdome and one God of his workes there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one and had in all one order being and nature for God was all that the man was and man was all that God was Beloued when God looked on the man which he had made according to the like being of his godhed then looked he vpon him selfe as the same clerenesse of his liuing godhed Likewise when the man looked vpon his God his ientle clene vnspotted manhode in all full comlinesse in all honestie fayrenesse in all fashion and being according to the same Godhed so this was al one God the man. I pray you loke into this doctrin whiche your Authour H. N. teacheth examine it by thy holy scriptures and iudge rightly therein whether this can by any colour of
will stay some of GODS children from running headlong into that bewitched snare And also suche matter as by disputation and conference with some of the same familie I haue boulted out I will declare For in déede the Authour in his Bookes doeth not deale so plainely as one being ledde by the spirite of GOD whereof he boasteth but verie subtilely and darkely and so as the iudgement of many godly and learned men to whom I haue deliuered his Bookes vppon the reading of the same haue testified that there is no matter in the Authour that may bée drawen into argument but that it séemeth to be as a riddle or darke speeche and therefore more intricate to be followed And as his tearmes and phrases are geyson and vnwoonted so they doe dasell the simple with an admiration of a prudent spirite to be in the Authour which of meane wits can neither be comprehended nor vnderstoode And when the Kabbynes of that Family whome they tearme Illuminate Elders haue béene pressed by me and others to giue a reason why the Authour hath so cunningly and subtilely dealt not expressing his minde in plaine tearmes and spéeche the best answere that hath béene made is that the Authour hath writen in the Dutch tongue which wanteth his grace and eloquence béeing turned into our rude Englishe But if I might be bolde to replye without offence his rude stile béeing written in the Dutch tongue is rather beautified by translation then impayred for I haue some copyes in Dutche some in Latin and some in English wherein the Authors barbarous stile and his ignoraunce is verie muche manifested although some of his schollers haue put too their helping handes to garnishe this their barbarous ▪ Author especially the booke intituled Euangelium Regni which is translated into Latin exactly I would to GOD the matter did answere the goodnesse of the tongue And if I should diligently séeke out of what forge the Authour Henrie Nicholas hath fyled his heresies I am certeinly persuaded that one Dauid George was the founder hatcher and bréeder of all this mischiefe and Henrie Nicholas but a disciple or scoller of the same Dauid What this Dauid was you may perceiue by that which is set downe before whose errours also for a tast I will set downe in part as they are collected by the gouernour of the vniuersitie of Basill that all men may sée that an euil authour hath bred a worse scholer And thereby shall be perceiued that Dauid George his opinions differ nothing from H. N. but are so like in wicked boasting that they haue the spirit of God that a man may thereby say an euill father hath begotten a worse sonne Articles taken out of Dauid George AL doctrine taught by Moyses the Prophetes and Christe himselfe are not sufficient to saluation but onely to keepe the people in good order till the comming of me Dauid George but my doctrine is able to saue all those that put their trust therin 2 Dauid George doth further say that he is the right Mes●ias the beloued sonne of the Father not borne of the fleshe but of the holy Ghost and when Christ was dead according to the flesh the spirite of Christe was kept at the fathers appointment vntill the comming of Dauid George and giuen to him 3 He saith that he will set vp the true house of Dauid the children of Le●●● and he will raise the tabernacle of God through the spirite of Christe not by the crosse and suffering but ▪ through me●knesse and loue 4 He saith that whosoeuer speaketh against his doctrine shall neuer bee forgiuen neither in this worlde nor in the world to come These I haue set downe as the doctrine of Dauid George founde in his books And bicause their doctrin may be better viewed and séene how they agrée in wicked diuelish phantasies of their own deuice set on by the father of lies our ancient enimie to be a stumbling blocke vnto the simple and to darken and blemish the ioyful procéeding of the glorious Gospell of Christ Iesus which almightie God hath in mercy reuealed to nations kingdomes most plentifully mauger the malice of the diuell and all his children I haue therefore here placed certaine sayinges of H. N. which are word for worde taken out of his bookes that the diligent reader may sée how in wicked boasting they agrée what vile doctrine they publish The errours of H. N. taken out of his owne bookes translated into English. 1 For the being of God or essence gaue foorth his sounde and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through his spirite of loue all these wordes he sayde Speaking against the Churche he saith 2 For that cause if thou now account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thee for the faythfull espoused wise of Christe my iealous conceiuing cannot stande otherwise towardes thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche dissemblest and playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome and neuerthelesse wilt bee iudged as a faythfull espoused wife of Christe So Shalt thou presenly be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my iealousie 3 All that God hath spoken through his holie Prophetes and what is written of Christ should also in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honor and glorie of God and to our ioy Out of a Dialogue betweene the father and the sonne Chap. 17. the son concludeth with these wordes SEeing nowe that I my Father haue found out in deede that our Lord the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate the possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same beeing of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete that all the generations of the ●arth submit them selues vnder the same mercie seate and Godly Maiestie and assemble them therevnto Here maiest thou sée these two men boasting thē selues in their presumption and pride of minde to haue the spirit of God the one saying that the same spirit which was in Christ Iesus when hee liued on earth is nowe in Dauid George which is horible blasphemie● and abaseth Moyses the Prophets and Christe him selfe in whose doctrine the certaintie of our faith is firmely fixed against which the gates of hell shal not preuaile promiseth to bring the house of Dauid and the children of Leuie into great prosperitie and to set ▪ them vp not with painful suffring as Christ our Lord in him self hath perfourmed left to vs his children example to follow his steppes in suffering miserie that we might reigne with him in glory but he promiseth to bring his disciples into that glory through méeknesse and loue which in deede is the pleasanter way to be followed if we consider fleshe and bloud H. N. he following his father in like blasphemie auoucheth that he hath talked with God not by inspiration or reuelation but by giuing foorth his sound voyce Then placeth himselfe in Christes
fayth which Christe Iesus planted in you and haue digged vp puddels of corupte waters vnto your selues Consider I pray you front whence ye are departed and whether you are come ye are gone from the comfortable promises in Christe Iesus touching the forgiuenesse of our sinnes our consolation redemptiō are driuen too fro with many vaine persuasions of H. N. that first you shall be made partakers of the holie vnderstanding then inioye the vpright fréedome to be frée from sinning and lastly come to be an Illuminate Elder to be Deified with God with such fantasies are ye fedde and suche doctrine are ye taught but how these thinges agrée with the holie Scripture is partely shewed before Miserably is your simplicitie deceiued through these false teachers and yet howe vnwilling ye are to sée this your nakednesse made manifest by proofe I can testifie Haue a regard at the last vnto your owne soules whiche Christe hath déerely bought if you perteine vnto him let them not be snared in such doctrines of men yea men of the worst sort But if there be any loue of GOD in you loue the Lorde Iesus and be of his Churche which you can not be imbracing H. N. and his doctrine Consider his loue his mercie and his patience in suffering vs to fall into many temptations that our returne might be the more ioyfull to him I pray you marke but this one thing in their teaching how they driue the true sense of the holie Ghost into allegories And when so euer any texte of the holie Scriptures is alledged by any of Gods children they aunswere that we little vnderstande what is meant thereby and then if they be pressed to expounde the place by and by it is drawne into an allegorie For they take not the creation of man at the first to be historicall according to the letter but méere allegoricall alluding that Adam signifieth the Earthly man the Garden the Woman the Serpent to be within man and applying stil the allegory they destroye the trueth of the historie H. N. in the first Epistle deuision 19. For. H N. biddeth his Familie Come eate of the tree of life that standeth in y midst of the paradise of the Lord Come eate and taste of the hidden bread of the Loue and liue eternally And as they expound this place thus euen so doe they all the whole course of the scripture leauing nothing certeine to our fayth for by as good righte may they make an allegorie of Christes death and Passion and say that CHRIST signifieth annointed and so alluding and following that sense denie that the man Christe Iesus died and so by application of the Allegorie diminish our faith and hope And in déede when I was earnestly solicited by some of the Family to imbrace that way which the mercie of the Lord kept me from the first steppe that I should haue entered into the depth of their diuinitie was to learne the signification of the Hebrue names of the Scripture and thereby to expound the same What a miserable case is this to sée the holie Scriptures thus drawen from the true sense into Allegories whiche may be taken many wayes euen as the vaine imagination of man can deuise And surely it is verie pernicious and hurtefull thus to expound the holie Scripture and yet the simple people not séeing the deceipte hereof doe thinke that these bée notable men and haue the spirite of GOD and that they teache them suche thinges therby as they neuer heard of before I denie not but sometimes the allegory may be well applied and to good purpose but when we applie the allegorie to destroy the true sense of the holy ghost it is by no meanes to be admitted For if we take such true histories as the holy Ghost hath left to his Church wherby he sheweth what his will is and drawe the same into an allegorie what do we leaue certain that our faith may depend vpon and where is our hope if allegories may haue place For as I saide before they expound this place of Saint Paule 1. Cor. The last trumpe shall blowe and the dead shall rise c. The last trump is the last doctrin whiche shal be blowne vpon the earth whiche is this of H. N. And the dead shall rise that is ▪ such as were dead in sinne shall be raised vp by the same trumpe of doctrine What a horrible matter is this to sée the holy Scripture thus drawen like waxe vnto euery purpose A man would thinke that no man hauing his senses would euer credit such fantasies and vanities but I know too many that haue a speciall liking of this teaching do unbrace it as the trueth of god Many partes of this our countrey is pitifully snared by such vaine techers as Christopher Vittell is yea not a few ministers of the simple sort are her with intangled with sorrow I speak it and I wold to God that the chiefest place in this realme were frée of these men If we should examine what is the cause of this errour surely our sinnes is the chiefe which doth prouoke the iustice of GOD to afflict vs with such false teachers and the negligence of our ministers which eyther can not or will not impugne their errour in countrie townes where it is imbraced The malice of Sathan is not behind who séeing the ioyful succéeding of the Gospell of Christ the sonne of God doth stirre his stumps in his members to impugne the same There is no Apothecarie in the worlde able to qualifie the bitternesse of his potion or medicine as our enimie is to qualifie the bitter and poysoned doctrin of H. N. Vittell with such swéete pretences of a holy life and vpright conuersatiō which in déed are but mere visars cloaks to shadow horrible blasphemie Such subtiltie hath Sathan that nowe enuying Christ ▪ Iesus his gospel doth stirre vp his members to disquiet the Church of God with this absurd senslesse errour And surely we were forewarned of such seducers that in the latter times would deceiue the simple the holy Ghost doth set thē foorth what kind of men they should be proud boasters y they haue the spirite of God as is witnessed 1. Tim. 4. vers 1. In y latter days some shal depart from the faith and shal giue heede vnto the spirites of errour doctrines of diuels And againe the 2. Epist. 3. chap. vers 5. Hauing a shewe of godlinesse but haue denied the power thereof turne away therefore from such Also Peter 2. Epist. 2. Chap. vers 1. But there were false Prophets also among y people euen as there shall bee false teachers among you whiche priuily shall bring in damnable heresies euē denying y Lord that hath bought them bring vpon them selues swift damnation and many shal follow their damnable wayes by whome the way of trueth shal be euil spoken of The same Chapter verse 21. For it had bene better for them not to haue
knowen the way of righteousnesse then after they haue knowen it to turne from the holy commaundement giuen vnto them Also the Epistle of Iude verse 4. For there are certeine men crept in whiche were of olde ordeined to this condemnation vngodly men they are whiche turne the grace of GOD into wantonnesse which denie God the onely Lord and our Lord Iesus Christ. Thus hath the holy Ghost decyphered all false teachers and giuen warning to his children to beware of them It is necessarie that heresies be saith S. Paul that those that are perfect may be manifested And surely Gods children haue thereby great triall and exercise of their faith and the Lorde our God can make such heretiques to serue his purpose euen to his owne glory that his childrē being strengthened by him may not be ouer taken in the sleightes and subtilties of Satan nor his impes but in the great temptation and seas of errours may abide stedfast in the Lorde Iesus and in his promises maugre the malice of the diuell If euer there were disturbers of the Church whereby these scriptures and prophesies may be fulfilled I thinke that nowe is the time For what with the bloudie Papistes with their fire and fagot continuall warre with horrible murders on the one side and the Anabaptistes Free will men Arrians Pelagians and the Familie of Loue on the other side Christes Church hath little rest and small fauour in the sight of man but spurned at on euery side But blessed be the Lorde our God who in the middest of all calamitie and miserie which his children daily suffer yet can not be driuen back by any torment to denie the Lord Iesus nor his known truth manifested to all the world and the Lord raiseth vp stil some of his children to withstand Sathan and all his rable which striue against grace And surely these and like errours are great exercises of our saith how constant we will abide in the day of triall Therfore though the world rage neuer so much yet our graund captaine biddeth vs to be of good chéere saying Ego vici mundū I haue ouercome the worlde In whose cōfortable promises we stay our selues and assuredly beléeue that although the ship of Christ be tossed vp downe with boistrous winds yet perish it cānot nor the lest y pertaine to him No dout many of Gods déere children fal into many snares of errors but they by grace are called backe againe if not willingly yet forceably so that they can not perish in those wayes For as our sauiour saith that such times should come that if it were possible the elect should be deceiued But it is not possible to be deceiued and perish though our God doth many ways trie vs and maketh vs examples and patterns one of vs to an other that his louing kindnes might appéere more notable in our preseruatiō we be prouoked thereby to shewe a thankful hart in obedience to his will also be occasioned to craue at his hands continually a perfect perseuerāce of our faith in him euen to y end Which we shal be sure to obtaine so that no false doctrine of H. N. Vittel nor any other shall preuaile once to touch vs bicause our hope resteth in the Lord Iesus And I verily beléeue y although some of Christes houshold be entered into those steps of H. N. yet I dout not but the Lord in mercy wil cal thē if they wil not come he wil forceably compel them if they be his Therefore you that are entered into the Familie through the swéete sugred persuasions of Vittell or any others I beséech you euen for y Lord Christes sake consider from whome you are departed euen from our Lorde Iesus who hath bought you whose armes are stretched abroade ready to receiue you againe with the reioycing of Angels ouer your conuersion How acceptable you should be vnto Christ his Church by proofe shal be perceiued but especially how beneficiall you shall be thereby to your owne souls and what rest to your conscience none can expresse but such as taste the same are partakers of the same grace of God in Christ Iesus For this is vndoubtedly true that to wander astray is a propertie belonging as well vnto Gods chidren as vnto others and their often falling is by many examples of the Scriptures made manifest but that they continue streying and neuer returne home or that by falling they willingly wallowe in the myre is a certaine note and mark that they pertaine not vnto the Lorde Iesus nor are partakers of his death Therefore if ye willingly perseuere and continue followers of H. N. Vittell or any such you are strangers in Christes schoole and it will be sayde vnto you Depart I knowe you not Auoyde therefore the daunger ye be in acknowledge that your teachers may erre and are mortall men For since the Apostles times there haue bene none so priuiledged but that he might erre The olde writers did euer giue that title vnto the holy Scripture and desired to be beléeued no further thē they agréed with the same but your teachers will néedes haue their doctrine to be credited and beléeued without examination or triall Assuredly if you did discerne them aright by the holy historie you should easily perceiue thē deceiuers and your selfe deceiued For if it be a trueth they teach vnto you why teach they in corners which trueth loueth not Euery truth is able to defend it selfe especially the truth of God and it is of that courage boldnesse y there is no power be it neuer so mightie but it dare stand fast and abide the triall so inuincible a vertue is truth Did Christe or his Apostles being threatened not to publish a truth c●●ceale the same for feare of life No verily to the losse of life and limme they stoode in the quarell of God against the tyrants of the world and preuailed But Christopher Vittell your teacher thinketh it sufficient to seduce you in corners and suffer you to be imprisoned but for him selfe he is safe ynough A good sheepeheard saith Christ will giue his life for his sheepe but your shepheards wil not hurte their fingers for their Familie but lurke in corners and delude and deceiue greatly your simplicitie Alas why are you so bewitched or so berest of sense so to imagine that a mortall man an obscure Authour whome you neuer sawe nor knewe hath onely the truth and all the world else seduced and deceiued for so he him selfe confesseth and that any other truth then the scriptures teach is of necessitie to be beléeued or that his Glasse of righteousnes which you neuer sawe hath in it the wisedome ▪ of God fully made knowne or his Euangelium regni Gospell of th● kingdome is that testament sealed by Christes bloud Surely beware I aduise you betimes prouoke not the Lord our God so vengeance with these absi●rde blasphemies For it is witnessed He will hasten his comming and will not be
communion of Saintes where the faithfull reioyce in nothing but in the Lambe of God who was cruci●●ed for vs singing prayses and thankes to him for euermore O Lorde in mercie graunt that this may come to passe for thy sonne our Sauiour Christe Iesus sake Amen ¶ A confession made by two of the Familie of Loue before a worthie worshipfull Iustice of peace the 28. of May 1961. touching the errors taught amongst them at their assemblies and also their behauiours And although they haue reformed some of these grosse matters since that time yet I haue thought good to manifest their wa●ering heads vnconstant minds that Gods children may beware of their impious dealinges 1 FIrst they be generally all vnlearned sauing that some of them can reade English and that not verie perfectly and of them that can so reade they haue chosen Bishops Elders and Deacons 2 Their Bishops Elders or Deacons do call those that be of their sect together by the name of a congregation into one of their disciples houses which they call also a Raab where they commonly méet to the number of thirtie or aboue and their Bishop or Deacon doth reade vnto the congregation the Scriptures expounding the same according to his owne fansie 3 When any person shal be receiued into their congregation they cause all their brethren to assemble the Bishop or Elder doth declare vnto the new Elected brother that if he will be content that all his goodes shal be in common amongst the rest of all his brethren he shal be receiued wherevnto he answering yea then he is admitted with a kisse vz. All the company both men and women kisse him one after another 4 At their méeting either to receiue a new brother or to reade the scripture they all haue meate drinke lodging at the cost and charges of the owner of the house whome they call a Raab and there they doe remaine as long as he hath good victualles for them wherby sometimes they doe loose their Raab séeing himselfe so farre ouercharged with them 5 They are called together euer in the night time and commonly to suche houses as be far from neighbours one of them doth alwayes warne an other and when they come to the house of méeting they knocke at the doore saying here is a Brother in Christ or a Sister in Christ. 6 When they be altogether before their Bishop or Elder or Deacon wil reade the Scripture vnto them he saith these words All ye that are but weake and not come to perfection withdrawe your selues a while and pray that you may be made woorthie therof Wherevppon those weakelings doe repaire into an other place and be not partakers of the doctrine that then shal be taught but afterwardes as the Bishop Elder or Deacon séeth them frame thēselues they shall be receiued to heare the doctrine 7 The Elder must not speak the Bishop being present nor the Deacon in the presence of either of them 8 The Byshopp or Elder doeth alwayes tell his congregation that he hath more to teache them so that he doeth continually féede them with expectations of newe matters 9 Euerie one of the congregation is inhibited to speake or declare any thing that he learneth vntill he be admitted so to doe and if he doe he shal be excommunicated and with great repentaunce againe receiued 10 In the beginning of Quéene Maries time they would not come to the Church thinking it damnable so to do ▪ but within a yere after they were changed from that opinion openly declaring vnto their brethren that they were al bound to come vnto the church and to doe outwardly there all suche thinges as the Lawe required then at their handes vpon paine of damnation although inwardely they did professe the contrarie 11 They can not abide any of their secte to pray but those that bee newe receiued brethren whome they call weaklings thinking it a great fault to the rest whome they affirme to be perfect to pray vnto God as though they were importunate troublers and ve●ers of him hauing no néed to do so 12 They s●orne all those the say Good Lorde haue mercie vppon vs miserable sinners saying they that so say declare themselues neuer to amend but still to be miserable sinners whereas we doe liue perfectly and sinne not 13 They may not say God speede God morrow or God euen but to those that be of their secte and to others they say Speede Morrowe Deuen 14 They may not say God saue any thing For they affirme that all thinges are ruled by nature and not directed by God. 15 They did prohibite bearing of weapons but at the length perceiuing them selues to be noted and marked for the same they haue allowed the bearing of staues 16 When a question is demaunded of any of them they doe of order stay a great while ere they do answere and commonly their worde shal be Surely or So. 17 They may answere to euerie demaundant not béeing one of their sect in suche sorte as they thinke best shall please him For they say they are bound to deale truely with no man in word or déede that is not of their congregation alledging that he is no neighbour and that therefore they may abuse him at their pleasure 18 When their wiues are to be deliuered of childe they must vse the help of none other but of those that be of their secte so that sometime the women are deliuered in the fieldes for that they would eschewe the comming of others vnto them as one of them was hauing no woman with her at her trauel 19 If any of their secte do die the wife or husbande that ouerliueth must marrie againe with one of their congregation or else the offence is greate the marriage is made by the brethren who bringe them together sometime that dwell aboue a hundreth myles a sunder as for example Thomas Chaundler of Wonerse in the countie of Surrey had his wife fetcht out of the Isle of Ely by two of the congregation the man and the woman being vtter straungers before they came together to be married 20 They doe diuorce againe themselues a sunder if they can not agrée before certeine of the congregation as the saide Chandeler and his wife did vppon a mistyking after they had béene one yeare married together 21 Whosoeuer is not of their sect they accompt him as a beast that hath no soule and shal yéelde no account for his doing but as a beast shall dye and not rise againe in bodie or soule And to proue it they allege a place out of Esdras that Who so is not of God shall be as a drop of water that falleth from the house and commeth to nothing 22 They hold that he which is one of their congregation is either as perfecte as CHRISTE or else a verie diueti 23 They holde it is lawfull to doe what so euer the higher powers commaunde to be done thoughe it be against the commaundementes of
sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came frō other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe ▪ or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repent●unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine ▪ or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so m●ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers ▪ alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke ▪ therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to ▪ the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknowē friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
Therefore to conclude for our true principles we referre you to the briefe rehersall and for any other difference to these premisses and all other doubtes we haue sufficiently resolued you as wee thinke in plaine speeche out of hartie loue Let this therefore suffise for an aunswere at this time The Lorde for his mercie graunt you and vs all inclyned heartes to doe his will but first to leaue our owne will and to indeuour vs with all the elect of God and Christe to the renouation in the spirite vz. that wee all in one heart of godly loue mought as liuing stones bee fast couched or coupled together in Iesus Christe to an holy house temple or familie of Loue or of God in as much as God is Loue and not any longer to striue but much rather as seruanntes of the Lorde in all meekemindednesse to humble our soules vnder this his great grace loue and mercie wherevnto wee all are so louingly called and warned by him and his holie Gospell in the ministration of the loue in the last time Amen This aunswere is to your first Letter Your louers and friends F. L. The answere of I. R. to the reply of the Family of Loue. BY perusing of your reply to my first answere I perceiue that our conference is to small purpose for that you cōtinue stil of the same mind you were and your crabbed slaunderous words towards me is nothing impaired with your smooth answer saying we charge you not with weightes wares c. If you of purpose had not charged me here with what néeded any mention of such slaunders but as in other thinges so in this you bewray your stomacks and of what spirite you are You take witnes My Lord of Canterburie whose minde concerning your great Rabby Vittell is knowen to many You affirme the cause I take in hande is surely dishonest The cause is Christes whose office and death is impaired and made of no effect by your doctrine of perfection and shadowed by H. N. so darkely that the children of GOD abiding in the vnitie of his Church do greatly lament your follie You say I haue belyed and slaundered my poore neighbours impudently and yet you shewe no matter wherein only you finde fault with vnorderly setting downe your Authours spéech No man can kéepe order with him that is without order Of adding diminishing you often charge me and shewe not in what place nor in what sentence I will not vse your vnhonest tearmes of impudencie but surely you deale in this case as the Papistes are woont to charge the doctrine of Christs Gospell which we professe that it bréedeth sedition that it pulleth Princes out of their seats openeth a gap to liber tie c. which howe truely these are imputed the eies of al do at the last behold The feare of our rigorous dealing forceth you to lurke in corners you say what rigour I pray you was euer shewed either to you or your companions the Papistes for their conscience Imprisonment you would say vpon submission which is no rigor Of such an houshold as we haue challenged to our selues you say you are strangers we confesse our selues to be of no other houshold then of Christes staying vpon the puritie of his word if you will be straungers from the same willingly it is great pitie You had rather follow H. N. then Christ and yet confesse that H. N. signifieth not any mans name but hath some other meaning which you ne wee can tell What a lamentable case is this that men hauing any sence or vnderstanding would credite such vncerteine wayes to follow an Authour doctrine so egerly and yet confesse you are ignoraunt who he is or what he is As for your confession published as I saide it is a mockerie for it is sounde and agréeing to vs Why halt you so cunningly Why will you dance in a nett and not be séene Do you in your confession impugne the doctrine of predestination or the possibility of the law c. or doe you once mencion the same therein and yet in your letters you shewe your dislyking of such doctrine terming it licentious Is not this déep dissembling and yet call it plaine dealing I would not haue you accuse your selues as you vniustly charge me but vse a simple and playn trueth and shew your minds truely and not hide it craftely and set downe pointes of doctrine agréeable with vs and say it is your confession of faith where you conceale the chéefe matters in variance betwéen vs Oh when will you deale plainly a wicked doctrine requireth shiftes and delayes but trueth openeth her selfe plainly to al in y day light And for your weakelings which haue recanted you say they were suche as coulde scarsely read english You forget your selfe very much was Sharpe and his companie which recanted at the crosse were they suche as you would beare vs in hand simple Sharpe was a teacher and others that I could name were not of the least account among you yet to help their weakenesse you call them simple men c. I know that some of thē haue followed the doctrine of H. N. these 18. yeares I take you not to be so olde a scholler in the Family You say you wil not conuince vs by the testimonies of the scriptures for it lyeth not in your power neither were you so dealt withall Surely this is very straunge It is the Lord that hath conuinced you and brought you vnder his Crosse but I pray you came this to passe by reuelation or by mans ministery If man was the minister you would haue vs beléeue that H. N. was he but it appeareth not that you are vnder Christes Crosse for in patience he suffered all wrongs and there was no deceipt nor guile found in his mouth He commanded his doctrine to be published to all the worlde not in corners but on the house toppe not faintly and fearefully but boldely and couragiously he suffered contumelious spéech and slaunderous but you do vse spéech of slaunder and disdaine as appeareth so that you haue not learned Christes crosse but H. N. his crosse As for Maister Knewstubs doings as yet not exstant you rashly and foolishly cauill at him before you heare him and condemne his doinges before you sée them and say that he will display himselfe euen as I haue done This is impudencie in the highest degrée to iudge and condemne a man before he be heard what he can say this doeth bewray of what mind and spirite you are What conference can do you good It séemeth your heart is hardned with the riddles of H. N. y so make your selues knowen to all Gods children it had bene more agréeable to the spirite of God to haue suspended iudgement vntill the worke had bene séene My adherentes in diriston you often name I tel you truly that the church of Christ Iesus are those adherents for I mainteine no other doctrine then y which in Christs Churche by publique
and apparantly before them 7 That we must liue without sinne The vpright freedome is this that the heart minde and spirite is wholy released purged or purified from all wicked nature which hath reigned ouer him and that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirit thought mind soule but alone the true godheade with his louely being of the vpright loue yea to be so wholy replenished with all the vertues of God and that there flow nothing else in him namely in this spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly and liuing waters 8 Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because we acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espoused wife of Christ my ielous conceiuing can not stand otherwise but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome thou shalt be constrayned to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielosie 9 No man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpret the scripture but onely the Elders in the Familie The Scripturely learned man hath no knowledge of Gods matters he can not vnderstande any tittle much lesse expounde or interprete the same to others all Scripture appeare to suche couered secrete in signes and parables nor can comprehend what the same according to the trueth is What such conceiueth or speaketh is false and lyes It is assuredly giuen to the family of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof It is assuredly all false lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination of their knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scripture bring foorth preach and teach they preach in deede the letter and the immagination of their knoweledge but not the word of the liuing god Let them esteeme themselues as holy as they wil they are a false Christianitie a diuelish synagogue or schole 10 That all men must submit themselues vnto the godlie wisdome in H. N. Seeing nowe that I my father finde out in deede that the Lorde the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate y possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same being of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete and conuenient that al the generations of the earth submitted them selues vnto the same mercie seate and godly Maiestie assembled them thervnto 11 Howe the Elders are Godded with God. It becommeth not that any shoulde take in hand to teach but only the Illuminate Elders in the Familie which also haue receiued the word of life from the liuing God and are euen through the same Godded with God or incorporated to God with whom also God in on● being and power of his spirite is Hominified or become man. An admonition to Christopher Uittell THe cause that moued me to set foorth this litle piece of work hath not ben as I doubt you will imagine of a malicious minde towardes your Familie the Lord is my witnesse I lament you and malice you not but of a sincere affection I owe vnto all Gods children ▪ who by you are deceiued with the doctrine of H. N. whom I haue manifested and made throughly knowne vnto the world And I would to GOD that you coulde haue contented your selfe with the Authours bookes and not haue published them to our brethren the simple ones in the countrie who are led easily into any newe doctrine which they neuer heard by your subtile persuasion And for as much as I knowe your person and what capacitie is in you I doe verily thinke that the drift of H. N. is not vnknowne to you namely to set vp him selfe as a Prophete to tread downe Christe Iesus our Lord and to destroy the effect of his office These things you sée well ynough in H. N. and yet you cease not still to ertall your Authour and his bookes and miserably seduc● the simple Doe you thinke to escape the heauie stroke of Gods hande No he commeth and will not be slacke to take vengeance of such as lead the simple and blinde out of the wayes of the Lorde our GOD and make them partakers of doctrines of men possessed with Sathanicall spirites It is necessarie that offences come but woe bee to them by whome they come it were better that a milstone were hanged about his necke and hee cast into the Sea. If this doctrin be not offensiue to Gods children iudge it your selfe Consider that the bloud of those simple ones will be required at your handes which perish by deceite Cursed is he that leadeth the blind out of the way Woe bee vnto him that saith sweete is sower and sower sweete Your erronious spirite is well knowne to Gods Church I heard you at Paules Crosse recant the blasphemies of Arrius doctrine the copie of which is foorth comming and now Sathan hath possessed your minde with infinite moe blasphemies of H. N. Is this no sinne thus to deceiue the simple You are one of those Elders that kéepe all the Commaundements of our GOD and yet are a blasphemer and a sinner in the highest degrée Your deceite is knowen your trecherie is manifest some of your owne Familie can testifie that you are an hypocrite and a dissembler and liue of the spoyle of the poore and haue left your arte and calling to liue méere ydlely by sowing heresies as it were of purpose to the destruction of many simple people Alas haue you a pleasure in their destruction Doth it delight you to leade them headlong to perdition Will not a day come when the Lord our God will charge you with this matter most sharplie Remember in time mortall man that thou shalt answere for euery soule that is peruerted Although they perish thou shalt not escape the Lordes handes The more thou leadest into errour the more grieuous shall be thy destruction and damnation Thinke not that thy counterfet shewe of a holy life can any thing auaile Now thy visard cloake is pulled off I doubt not but the simplest wil espie thy deceit and be no more deceiued with thy pretences to gather their money daily to set foorth the workes of H. N. and inrich thy selfe as wil bee proued If thou feare not the vengeance of God yet let the shame of y world driue thée to confesse thy fault and as thou diddest before recant the errour of Arrius so nowe come foorth out of thy denne and recant the blasphemie of H. N. that the poore and simple may be brought into the wayes of Christe our Lord out of which they haue wandered ouer long Then shal the Church of Christ reioyce ouer your conuersion and Sathan and his ministers shall be put to flight the poore strayinge shéepe shal be brought to the folde of Christe Iesus and you shall be willingly receiued into the