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A09107 A relation of the triall made before the King of France, vpon the yeare 1600 betvveene the Bishop of Eureux, and the L. Plessis Mornay About certayne pointes of corrupting and falsifying authors, wherof the said Plessis was openly conuicted. Newly reuewed, and sett forth againe, with a defence therof, against the impugnations both of the L. Plessis in France, & of O.E. in England. By N.D. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1604 (1604) STC 19413; ESTC S121884 121,818 242

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confesse that these are egregious companions in so deluding their readers by shamefull shiftinge And this of S. Chrysostome now lett vs see what he saith to S. Epiphanius and S. Augustine about Aërius condemned of heresie well neere 1300. yeares past for denying sacrifice and prayers to be offered for the dead Vnto the places saith he of Epiphanius and Augustine I answere that Aërius was condemned for disalowinge the order of the Church in this commemoration for the dead and geuing thanks for their blessed end and this is that prayer which Caluyn and we confesse to haue byn in the Church a long tyme. Heere yow see that he taketh vpon him to aunswere to three seuerall partyes to witt S. Epiphanius S. Augustine and Iohn Caluyn and that with the same truth that he answered before S. Chrysostome to witt with plaine cosenage and shiftinge For vnto the two Fathers he saith yf he say any thinge that they affirmed Aërius to haue bin condemned as an heretike not for denyinge sacrifice or prayer for the dead but for disallowing the order of the Church in their commemoration geuing thanks for their blessed end which comme moration he expoundeth a little before to haue byn a recytall only of dead mens names without any prayer for remission of sinnes which yf yt were so and that Sutcliffe will graunt as he seemeth to do that Aërius was iustly condemned and held for an heretike for disallowinge this commemoration or recytall of dead mens names why do the Protestants also disallow the same or at leastwise do not vse yt in England in their communion and so by omittinge the same doe participate with him in the same heresie But all this is shamefull shifting turning and wyndinge of a leud and lost conscience to deceaue the reader for the words of Saint Epiphanius and S. Augustine are most plaine euident that Aërius was condemned of heresie for denyinge prayers and sacrifices to be offered for the dead orare vel offerre pro mortius non oportere saith S. Augustine he held that prayers and oblations ought not to be made for the dead and do yow note that this was not yeaster day but in the tyme of Constantine the great when Aërius was condemned as an heretike by the whole Church of that tyme for denyinge these points which our Protestants deny also blaspheme at this day Magnum mundo malum saith Epipbanius of Aërius suriosus mente elatus opinione c. Aërius was a great plague of the world furious in mynd and proud in his opinion c. What would he haue said of Sutcliffe at this tyme who sheweth himselfe no lesse proud then he and auoucheth the same heresyes and many more besides But to returne to Sutcliffes answere to the forsaid two Fathers concerning Aërius First yow may see consider that in his former relation of the matter he vseth a sleight of his budget when he saith that Epiphanius and Augustine seeme to say that Aërius was condemned c. for they do not only seeme to say so but do absolutely affirme yt and S. Epiphanius maketh a longe discourse therof shewinge the beginninge and occasion of Aërius fall into this heresie to witt that he being a Priest could not be made a Bishopp which S. Augustine also toucheth and that vpon this enuy spite mallice he beganne to obiect against the cleargy that they ought not to offer sacrifice or prayer for the dead but only for the lyuinge and consequently for the same was condemned and held alwayes after for an heretike by the Church of that and all other ensuinge ages Secondly yt is another sleight to say that Aërius was condemned for disallowing the order of the Church in this commemoration of the dead as though Aërius his fault had not byn against any point of Catholike and vniuersall doctrine of the Church but disobedience only against some Ecclesiasticall order and therfore yf yow marke yt he neuer nameth him heretike as indeed disobedience to orders is not properly heresy if it be not against some article of doctrine And all these are shifts and conueyances of Sutcliffe to dazell the readers eyes wheras the forsaid Fathers say plainly that he was condemned for hereticall doctrine And S Chrysostome as you haue heard before alleaged affirmeth the contrary doctrine of prayinge for the departed in tyme of the dreadfull misteryes to haue come downe from the Apostles themselues and the same in effect saith Epiphanius traditione a patribus accepta by tradition receaued from their forefathers The third shift is that Sutcliffe in this his shufflinge aunswere foisteth in these words commemoration of the dead and geuinge thanks for their blessed end as thongh Saint Epiphanius or S. Augustine had said or meant so which is quite contrary for they expressely affirme that this commemoration was to pray for them that is to say for those that are synners and haue need of our prayers which Epiphanius expresseth in these words pro iust is precatoribus memoriam facimus peccatoribus quidem misericordiam Dei implorantes we make commemoration of iust men and for synners desiringe Gods mercy for those that be in synne c. Which is the very same that S. Chrysostome distinguisheth in the place before alleaged of his 69. homily to the people of Antioch that some are greater sinners some lesse some perfect and holy But S. Augustine accordinge to his manner more cleerly perspicuously in these words Non omnibus prosunt c. our prayers and sacrifices offered for the dead do not profitt all sorts of men And why do they not profitt all but only for the difference of life which euery man hath lead in this body Wherfore when sacrifices eyther of the Altar or of any other almes are offered vp for Christians departed yf they be very good men for whome they are offered they are thanke geuings for them that are not very euill they are propitiations or appeasings with God but yf they be very wicked then though they be no helpes to the dead yet are they some kind of comfort for the liuinge and vnto those deceased whome they do profitt they are profitable in this that eyther they procure them full remission or at least wise that their punishment or condemnation be therby made more tolerable So S. Augustine who explaneth as yow see most perspicuously the Catholike doctrine and cutteth of all shifts from cauillinge heretiks about the different sorts qualityes of men desceased with what distinction the Catholike Church doth make commemoration for them in the publike sacrifice either by praying or praising God for them And thus much of his shuffling and shifting away the Fathers authorityes lett vs now come to consider how he will put of his Maister Caluyn and his Brother VVillet alleaged also yf yow remember against him But as for VVillett he maketh him not worthy of a seuerall answere but