now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâ—h such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌ„ders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâ—dite amongest the familye of equall auâ—horitye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌ„swere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ— note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌ„d the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ„ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ— in his right order this speach is ambigâ—us in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ„ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâ—idingly call it his gospell is declared that â—Papa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâ—standing Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌ„ding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâ—e of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌ„gelium Regnâ— gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ— enemies one freÌ„d although his doctrine is spokeÌ„ against euery where yet this maÌ„ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌ„deme not the name his doctrine not agrâ—â—ing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names â–ª wâ—e will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ„ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ„ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ— and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ— not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the â—â—ders of the holy vnderstandinâ— but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌ„fesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâ—r you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ— haÌ„d to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâ—h arâ— Godded with God or incoâ—poâ—atâ—d to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because â—N vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ— dutâ—h language â–ª therfore in so doing you despiâ—e the
passion hath purchased freely for me and all others whome he chose before all worldes to be heyres and sonnes of the same inheritaunce by adoption and grace which promise or assuraÌ„ce I holde â—â—rmely by fayth Notwithstanding this his louing kindenes and mercy shewed towardes me if the Lord my God did not sâ—ill protect me guide me and deâ—end me I should anihilat and make voyd this mine estate or assurauÌ„ce therfore hath he geuen vnto me the participatioÌ„ of his holy spirite renewing me working in me regeneration which is a detestation lothing and hate of sinne and a minde will to serue the lord Yet so as there is a kinde of rebellion in me So that the good thinges I would doe I doe not but the euill I hate that doe I yet not I but sin that dwelleth in me I feele my flesh lusting agaynst the spirite and the spirite agaynst the flesh continually so that I cannot doe the same thinges I would â–ª I fele the law of my members striuing and rebelling agaynst the law of my minde And further to make my state and condition more throughly knowen I feele often tymes sinne and the mostons thereof so strong in me that I am for a season led captiue therewith yea without remorse so that the spirite semeth in me vtterly quenched or as â—ire raked vnder ashes that is not seene and sometime I wallow and for a season as it were forget my God notwithstanding this my backslyding I feele agayne the goodnes of my God and the working of hys spirite renewing me agayne then in sorrowfulnes and teares I bewaile my selfe in prayer y I haue so long estraunged my self offended my God then doe I féele the coÌ„fort of his spirite which bringeth to my remeÌ„braunce the promises of the Lord pronounced in his word videliz Though thy sinnes were as redde as scarelet yet will I make them as white as woole looke how far the heaueÌ„ is from the earth so farre haue I set thy sinnes froÌ„ thee Lyke as a Father hath compassioÌ„ on his children euen so the Lord will shew mercy on me for he dealeth not with vs after our sinnes noâ— rewardeth vs after our iniquityes â–ª All the day long he standeth with stretched out armes ready to receaue those that turne vnto him c. Then when I feele this the Lord my God comforting me by his promises I am driuen by the working of the same his holy spirite to be partaker of the holy sacrament of his death which is to me a seale and pledge cognizaunce of my redemption which to my great comfort I receaue as a token of his loue and kindenes shewed to me and so more and more I feele sinne and Sathan weaker and by resisting him dayly I finde him and his baytes Idle my fleshe and â—he aâ—lurementes of the world lesse able to hurt me or to preuaile agaynst me And â— feele in my selâ—â— through the working of the same spirite a redynes to all good exercises of pietie as hearinâ— of the word Prayer Aâ—stinence Charitie towards Christes members Loue Peace Ioâ— c. But yet still I féel finne with her motions neuer ceâ—sing a fresh to assay me and try me with new assaults and sifting me euery way againe and agayne charging me ofteÌ„ with the dexterity of the law with the greatnes of my sinnes laying them particularly before me with great horror preparing such bookes and baites for me that if I were not preserued by the great goodnes of my God I should vtterly dispaire and fal away but the Lord doth comfort me still saying My grace is sufficient for thee My grace is made strong through thy weaknes Be of good cheare I haue ouercome the world In such case I am and such is my battaile continually and alwaies fighting this vnder my graund captayne I preuayle and am not vaÌ„quished nor vtterly ouercomed yet agayne I prepare for a newe skirmish place my selfe in y formost raÌ„k to abyde the brunt of the next incouÌ„ter so that I neuer looke for any rest nor peace whilst I am in this vale of misery for my lyfe is a coÌ„tinuall warfare Yet in this exercise or continuall skirmish I am at peace in minde and conscience knowing and firmely beleeuing that my redeemer liueth who hath trod the wine presse alone and hath offered me the cup of Saluation and sealed in my hart the pledge of hyâ— loue so that with confidence and boldnes I haue accesse vnto my God and by the mediation of my Lord and Sauiour Christ I obtaine what soeuer is necessary or behouâ—full for me for I beyng thus knit vnto my God do boldly make my prayers vnto hym yet in tremâ—ling and feare I acknowledge my offences say O Lord my God I dayly confesse mine offences my sins are euer before me Enter not into IudgemeÌ„t with thy seruaunt for no flesh is righteous in thy sight â—f thou O Lorde obserueâ—t myne iniquities who is able â—o abide it For thy holy name sake O Lord be mercifull vnto myne iniquitie for it is greaâ— Remember not the faults of my youth Shew vnto me thy mercy and graunt me thy salvatioÌ„ Thus dayly and nightly I bewaile my misery confesse my â—â—nnes vnto the Lord my God and acknowledge that â—f the Lord should conâ—ond with me in iustice I were not able to answere For what is man that he should be cleane or he that is borne of a woman that he should be iust For he founde no stedâ—astnes in his saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight How much more man which is abhominable and filthy and drinketh iniquitie like water Whose very righteousnes is like a cloth defiled with the vnâ—â—mely bâ—â—th of a woman Thus considering my state and condition I rest quâ—et in mind and by faith in the sonne of God Christ Iesus I dout nothing of my saluation but accept gladly the battaile warfare I haue with sinne and SathaÌ„ continually as tokens of his great mercy and plâ—dges of his loue in fâ—eling the redy help and speedy deliuery of y lord who in time to me vnknowen will visite mine offences in this life with whips and my sinnâ—s with scourges but his mercy he wilâ— neuer take from me And thus being chosen callâ—d and prepared he sanctifieth me by death maketh a waâ— and entrance vnto an happy life where I shall behold that ioyfull sight euen the Lamb that was 〈◊〉 for me And shall follow him whâ—resoeâ—er he goeth Singing praise and thankes to him for euer and euer Amen The state and condition of a Regeneraâ—â— man afâ—er the doctrine and â—eaching of HN. in the pretended â—amily of Loue. BEloued in the beginning when God made all things well then was â—he Lord one Lord of his kingdoâ—e and one God of his workes There was also no more but one
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and â—ou and your fellowes be brought to â—umble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâ—e of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muâ—â— oâ—â—t much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. â—ut if you did as becoÌ„meth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâ—freth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ„ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing â—lls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌ„gerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth â—ther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merâ—y or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌ„gerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâ—ed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking â–ª that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câ—mmâ—nd without reason or cause your Auâ—hor and his moÌ„strous doâ—trinâ— which hath in it such grosse absurdâ—â—yes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâ—uert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ„ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâ—kt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌ„mon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God â—l that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ„ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ— greatest wresters of
Lord. Answere I Am offended in zeale of Gods 〈◊〉 agaynst your generall doctrine wheâ—of this is a part that none may teach the truth but y illuminat â—lders Your HN. further sayth Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deâ—eitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination or riches of theire own knowledge out â—f their learnednes of the scriptures bâ—ing forth institute prâ—ach and teaâ—h c. Now looke wel and behold whether HN. condemne not all others but his illumined Elders who are Godded with God c. which in dâ—ede I haue rightly tearmeâ— proud speaches such as neuer any godly wryter in Christ his church durst euer speake or write â—ou would colour the wordes by the ducth tongue saying they be not straÌ„ge speches in that language but certainly a strange and monsterous doctrine is therby taught and far disagreeing from the written word and far â—nbeseeming any Christian. And here if I should dilate what a meaning you haue in these wordes Godded with God I should increase this treatise ouer much yet I will somewhat touch it as you and your Author haue expressed it in wryting I will vse your own speach as followeth See and marke my beloued in the beginning when God had made all things well thâ— was the Lord one Lord of his kingdome and one God of his worke and there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one â–ª and had in all one ordeâ— beinâ— â–ª â—nd nature For God was all that the man was and the mâ— was all that God wâ—â— Thus monstrously and blasphemously you haue taught god and man to be one in nature now compare this godhead with God or incorporated to God and easily it is perceiued that you meane God and man to be one this were worthye to be buryed in silence but that now the patrons defeÌ„d such blasphemies it is tyme to cleare the Church of Christ that such proude and Luciferian voyces shoulde not bee heard or once named yet this man will proue that HN. cannot erre and none that know the truth can condeÌ„ne HN. It is a pitiful thing that men hauing anye sence or feeling of God or godlines should so vaynely wryte or publish to y world such absurd horrible doctrine neuer heard of before and yet the Aucthor must needes be a prophet and his doctrine to proceede from the Lord nowe in despising thys and the like proud speach of HN of necessitie I am counted to despise y Lord thus still you drawe HN. hys matters that who so speaketh or wryteth agaynst hym be wryteth and speaketh agaynst God whether will you exalt your Auâ—thor ye vnbeleuers surely aboue all that is called God but wyth your father you will be cast headlong so low where to late you may bewaâ—l your contempt of God and godlinesse looke in tyme to this and the like part of your doctrine oh ye Ipocrites Vitell. FOr asmuch as the Lord hath seen it for good to bryng foorth hys most holy seruice of loue in the duch language although it seeme grosse and barbarous to you so shall it from henceforth be counted a language amoÌ„g those languages wherin the Lord hath erected his law and the priestes office thereof and the seruice of the beliefe with hys priests office Like maner shall the most holy seruice of loue be brought foorth through the Lorde hys elected minister HN. with his priests office where through the Lorde will receaue all men in mercy whiche humble them vnto hys word of grace according to the requiring of hys lawe and ordinaunces be erected and remayne from generation to generation for euermore for loue peace and righteousnesse shall remayne in eueâ—lalastingnes Aunswere THe Dutch language must nowe be accounted amongst those learned tongues wherein the law and gospell were written and this he auoucheth the Lord hath seene it for good that it shal be euen so you now take your authors office in hande For you Prophesye that from hencefourth this shall come to pas the law the seruice of the beliefe and the Priestes office must be brought forth in y Dutch Language I cannot but say notwithstanding your false Prophesye that the Dutch Language you vse especially in such straunge inuented wordes and confused compositioÌ„ is barbarous sith that â—â—rtayne other of your bookes that haue learned to speake latine a toung by nature propriety plaine copious and eloquent are also new fangled in name and barbarous in phrase of purpose to be blasphemous in doctrine which you nor any of your Familyâ— haue as yet as I thinke translated they want a certayn father and therefore haue no certayn names but borrowed as Theologica Germanica Augustinus Elutherius c. Their new deuised latin wordes are such as Aegoitas Ipsietas c. Their doctrine is that Adam is nothing els but vetus homo and Christus is nothing els but Nouus homo The history of Christ his birth hys miracles passion death resurrection c. they regard not but allegor is vppon euery part thereof most daungerously and vngodly teachingâ— vncertayne significations without coÌ„â—ort making no accompt of the history Confidently to beleue the truth of the history they say is to abide in the letter which killeth Those bookes contaynâ— playne doctrine which the Libertynes hold and also the doctrine of perfection whiche you hold to be in this life â–ª but especially this principle that when this perfection whiche you dreame of is come to the man then is he illuminate and deiffied and God in him hominified so that in all his actions wordes and thoughtes he can no more coÌ„mit sinne or anye euill then God or Christ can commit sinne or euill the reason is rendred because God or Christ dwelleth in the man and hath thâ— gouernment of all hys actions thoughtes c. And when ye are pressed in conference to shewe that man thus hauing Christ dwelling in him if he at any tyme doe bring foorth any euill that in resemblaunce maâ— appeare as sinnes they are not so to beâ— accompted of say you because Christ dwelleth in the man which doctrine is wicked false and diuelish as I haue often tolde your fellowes in other places Christ dwelleth in vs by the participation of his holye spirite and guydeth our actions els should wee haue no strength to resiste sathan or flesh nor the intisements of the world but taketh not away thereby our humayne imperfections but he keepeth lustes and all wickednes that they raigne not ouer vs or rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs yet wee ceasse not to be sinners or commit sinne that is your owne doctrine but hath no foundation or warrant in the worde Other bookes also are of such lyke name and doctrine as Elidad and Fidelitas whereof I fearâ— me that you were the traÌ„slator The doctrin wherof I meane not to touch in this place onely this is to be noted that the parties