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A41319 An answer to Mr. Thomas Grantham's book, called, A dialogue between the Baptist and the Presbyterian by Martin Finch. Finch, Martin, 1628?-1698. 1691 (1691) Wing F942; ESTC R7436 100,803 186

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as Creator requireth of them and to the Jews the House of Israel to whom those words are spoken as is plain to be seen in that Chapter God did shew to them more of his Mind and Will what he commanded and required of them what is this for Christ's dying for all Adam's Posterity 17. Then he quotes Psalm 103.8 The Lord is Gracious and full of Compassion and of great Mercy 'T is certain that the Lord is Gracious and full of Compassion and of great Mercy But he hath Mercy on whom he will have Mercy and whom he will he hardeneth Rom. 9.18 The Grace and Mercy of God is to be adored for ever that he saves any that have sinned against him Sinning against the Divine Majesty is so hemous that God's Grace and Mercy is unconceivable in saving any tho' it had been much fewer persons than he doth save and his holy Justice is to be adored for ever in punishing so many with Eternal Damnation for Sin There is such infinite Mercy in God that he could have pardoned all the Angels that sinned and could have saved all Adam's Posterity if he had pleased there might have been no Hell no place of Torment for Devils or Men if he had pleased there might have been no place but Heaven for all the Angels and all the Children of Men to sing Halelujahs to Eternity but we must not order what God shall do how he shall exert and put forth his Attribute of Mercy O that there were more Reverence of the Divine Majesty more holy trembling before him more wondring that he should shew Mercy to any and especially to our selves for he hath his Glory not only in them that are saved but in them that perish In them that are saved he hath the Glory of his Grace and in them that perish he hath the Glory of his Justice 18. Psalm 145.9 The Lord is good to all and his tender Mercies are over all his Works I answer 1. God is good to all as a Creator during the Day of his Patience and Long-suffering and what Mercies he affords may be called Tender Mercies considering our Vileness and Sinfulness who deserve every moment to be cast into Hell We are to adore the common Bounty of God to all in his Patience and Long-suffering for a time in this World 2. This place of Scripture may be applied to the Saints only for it follows All thy Works shall praise thee O Lord and thy Saints shall bless thee They shall speak of the Glory of thy Kingdom and talk of thy Power v. 10 11. So I say the words may be understood that the Psalmist is speaking of Gods being good in an especial manner to all those whom he makes his People and that his tender Mercies are over them over all the Saints who are the Works of his Hands in an especial manner that are made new Creatures by him his new Creation in Christ Ephes 2.10 3. Take all for all Mankind 't is certain that the Lord is not pleased to shew them such Goodness and tender Mercy as to give them a new Heart so as to take away the Heart of Stone and to give them a Heart of Flesh and save them for ever which he could easily have done if he had pleased and the more are they beholden to his for ever to be adored Grace to whom he is so good towards whom he sheweth such tender Mercy as to take away and remove all Mountains of Guilt and Rebellion that stand in the way to hinder their Eternal Salvation Thus I have explained those Scriptures this Author brings for Universal Redemption which indeed intend no such thing If the Lord be not pleased to give us light into the meaning of Scripture we shall father our Errours and Mistakes upon the word of God we must compare Scripture with Scripture we must bring a humble Mind to the study of the Scriptures We must pray continually to the Father of Lights and of Spirits that he would lead us into all Truth We must not interpret any Scripture so as to derogate from the Perfection of the Divine Attributes we must not interpret any Scripture so as to derogate from the Infinite and Eternal Vertue and Merit of our Saviour's Death 't is always new and of Infinite Efficacy for all he died for to Eternity Then it follows in this Author By these Authorities I teach that Christ died for all I answer that so do others that you oppose they teach that Christ died for all that is all the Elect all that the Father hath given him all that believe and trust in him but if you teach that Christ died for all Adam's Posterity you teach you know not what I pray consider that when our Lord and Saviour died as a Surety and Mediator it was near four thousand years from the Creation and there were multitudes then in the Prison of Hell from whence there is no Redemption and do you think that Christ God-man died upon the Cross and bare such unutterable Dolour for them to redeem them that were then in Hell There was reason indeed that Christ should die for those Saints that were in Heaven before he died because they were pardoned and saved upon the account of his having undertaken as Surety for them to make satisfaction to the Justice of God for their Sins Heb. 9.15 And for this cause he is the Mediator of the New Testament that by means of death for the Redemption of the Transgressions that were under the first Testament they which were called might receive the Promise of the Eternal Inheritance The Father trusted Christ as we may express it upon his Covenant and undertaking as Surety to make satisfaction to Justice and so he pardoned and saved the Saints of the Old Testament before Christ actually died for them And as for the Elect that were then living and were to live afterwards in their Generations Christ trusted the Father with the Payment and Satisfaction he made for them by his Death that they should have the benefit of his Death in due time bestowed upon them It sounds well enough in the Ears of Christians that Christ was but once to offer himself a Sacrifice and that therefore when he died he bore the Sins of the Saints in Heaven because they came there upon the account of his Covenant and Undertaking with the Father that he would in the fulness of time take upon him Humane Nature and would as their Surety make Satisfaction for their Sins But surely it will sound very harshly in the Ears of all Christians that Christ God-man should sweat drops of Blood and die bearing the Curse of the Law for them who were then in Hell when he died except Arminians think that the damned in Hell shall be saved at last Indeed some passages of those of that Judgment have a tendency to such an Opinion but such Doctrine is contrary to many places of Scripture Matth. 25.41 and the last Verse 2
Cross despising the Shame The Joy that was set before Christ as Mediator when he endured the Cross when he died upon the Cross was not only the Glory that should follow to his Humane Nature but the Glory that the manifold Wisdom infinite Grace and the holy Justice of God should have to Eternity by saving the Elect in such a wonderful way by his Cross and likewise this was part of the Joy set before Christ when he died upon the Cross that all that he died for should be eternally saved and stand before the Throne as his Redeemed People Thus I have endeavoured for the Honour of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ for the Comfort of those that believe on him to maintain that he hath not failed in the Work of Redemption but for all that he undertook to die as their Surety and Mediator he will bring them to Eternal Blessedness Now to the Father that sent him to the Son that was willing to take our poor Humane Nature upon him and die for our Sins and to the Holy Ghost that doth certainly and infallibly apply this glorious Redemption that Christ hath wrought to all for whom he died be Glory for ever and ever Amen And for those that catch at a few Words and Phrases in the Scripture to make this Redemption by the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ to be ineffectual to any for whom he died I bow my Knees and pray to God for them that he may please to give them Light and Understanding that they may be taken off from their erroneous Conceits concerning our Saviour and the for ever to be adored Redemption by him which standeth sure for ever But to remove what Doubts and Temptation may arise in the thoughts of some upon two places of Scripture It is said Rom. 14.15 But if thy Brother be grieved with thy Meat now walkest thou not charitably destroy not him with thy Meat for whom Christ died and through thy Knowledge shall thy weak Brother perish for whom Christ died 1 Cor. 8.11 from these two places some maintain that those that Christ died for may be damned in Hell Now for the understanding of these two Texts observe that some walked very uncharitably towards those that were fellow Members with them they pretended more Light and that they saw their Liberty further than those which they counted weak Brethren did about eating of some Meats which others scrupled Now saith the Apostle to those that accounted themselves strong Destroy not him with thy Meat for whom Christ died Those that are fellow Members in the Church you ought to judge of them with a Judgment of Charity that they are the Elect of God and such as Christ died for therefore don't do that which tends to their destroying and ruin and thro' thy Knowledge thy pretence of having more Knowledge and to have a greater Latitude shall thy weak Brother perish for whom Christ died if without Light and Satisfaction in his own Conscience he should be emboldened to do those things by your Example you draw him to sin which deserves Damnation but that eventually any shall perish for whom Christ really died cannot be collected from these Scriptures or any others those that we in Charity think are such as Christ died for may perish we ought to think in Charity that all that are Members with us in the Church are partakers of the Heavenly Calling and such as Christ died for tho' in foro dei in the sight of God who knoweth infallibly who are his they are such as Christ never died for our Judgment of Men that Christ died for them is but a Judgment of Charity not a Judgment of Infallibility But can any one think that if Christ God-man did really die for a Person had such inconceiveable Love to him and had endured so much for his Salvation in his Agony in the Garden and upon the Cross that he would not take such care that this poor Soul should not eternally perish and be destroyed by the uncharitable carriage of some proud giddy Professor yea if Christ really died for any Person all the Wiles and Devices and fiery Darts of all the Devils in Hell shall never be able to destroy and ruin such an one tho' other Professors be uncharitable and hard-hearted to give offence to the weak and shake them and endanger them yet Christ the Meek the Pitiful and Merciful and Almighty High-Priest will not suffer a bruised Reed to be broken nor smoking Flax to be quenched but tho they may fall yet shall they rise again Christ saith to the Sheep that he laid down his Life for that they shall never perish and that none whether Men or Devils shall pluck them out of his Hand John 10.27 28. CHAP. V. Of Election and Reprobation THis Author in his Dialogue with the Presbyterian Pag. 17. doth cite a passage in the Confession of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster By the Decree of God for the manifestation of his Glory some Men and Angels are Predestinated unto everlasting life and others fore-ordain'd to everlasting destruction and those Angels thus Predestinated and fore-ordained are particularly and unchangeably designed and their number so certain and definite that it cannot be either encreased or diminished 'T is either for want of acquaintance with Books or want of Ingenuity that this Author falls upon the Presbyterians as if they only were of this Opinion The Assembly of Divines at Westminster published their Confession of Faith but about 46 years ago But first I shall shew that the Episcopal Divines long before them printed and published the same Doctrine 2. Consider of the Doctrine it self 1. Whereas this Author would suggest as if the Presbyterians only held this Doctrine and so cast an odium upon them I shall shew that the Episcopal Divines did publish the same Doctrine long before 1. The Articles of the Church of England in the Year 1552 say Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God whereby before the Foundation of the World was laid he hath constantly decreed by his Counsel secret to us to deliver from Curse and Damnation those whom he hath chosen out of Mankind and to bring them by Christ to everlasting Salvation as Vessels made to Honour Wherefore they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season they through Grace be justified freely they be made the Sons of God by Adoption they be made like to the Image of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ they walk religiously in good Works and at length by God's Mercy they attain to everlasting Felicity Article 17. Here is plainly asserted that there is an Eternal Election of certain Persons that they shall be certainly and infallibly called to Grace and Glory by Jesus Christ And as for the 31th Article which this Author mentioneth tho' he did not think fit to meddle with the 17th Christ is a
perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World both Original and Actual They having before asserted the Doctrine of God's Eternal Election of some this Article may fairly be interpreted that Christ is a perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World of the Elect or of all the Elect in all Ages and of all Nations throughout the whole World and for them only and their words being well considered will constrain such an Interpretation To be sure they did not hold that all Mankind should be saved and therefore saying that Christ is a perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World they cannot be understood to mean any more than this that there is no other name under Heaven by which Men can be saved but the name of Jesus Christ there is not Salvation in any other It is he alone that is a Perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for Sin so that whoever are saved in any Age or Place throughout the whole World are saved by him only 2. The first Articles of the Church of England being not so explicit and plain about Predestination and Arminianism being broached there was a meeting at Lambeth-house on the 20th Day of November 1595. now almost an hundred Years since There was John Archbishop of Canterbury Richard Bishop of London Richard Elect Bishop of Bangor Dr. Tindal Dean of Ely Dr. Whitaker Professor of Divinity in Cambridge and sundry other Reverend and Learned Divines there present with the concurrent Approbation of of the Right Reverend and Learned Prelate Matthew Archbishop of York for the determining certain Arminian Points of Controversie they composed agreed upon and published these Nine Assertions following 1. Deus ab aeterno praedestinavit quosdam ad vitam quosdam reprobavit ad mortem 1. God from Eternity hath predestinated certain Men to Life he hath reprobated some unto Death 2. Causa movens aut efficiens Praedestinationis ad vitam non est praevisio fidei aut bonorum operum aut ullius rei quae insit in personis praedestinatis sed sola voluntas beneplaciti Dei 2. The moving or efficient cause of predestination unto Life is not the foresight of Faith or of good Works or of any thing that is in the persons predestinated but only the good Will and Pleasure of God 3. Praedestinatorum praefinitus certus est numerus qui nec augeri nec minui possit 3. There is a predetermined and certain number of the predestinated which can neither be augmented nor diminished 4. Qui non sunt praedestinati ad salutem necessario propter peccata sua damnabuntur 4. Those that are not predestinated to Salvation shall be necessarily damned for their Sins 5. Vera viva ac justificans fides Spiritus Dei justificantis non extinguitur non excidit non evanescet in electis aut finaliter aut totaliter 5. A true living and justifying Faith is not extinguished it fails not it vanisheth not away in the Elect either finally or totally 6. Homo vere fidelis id est fide justificante praeditus certus est plerophoria fidei de remissione peccatorum suorum salute sempiterna sua per Christum 6. A true believer that is such a one as is endued with a justifying Faith is certain with the full assurance of Faith of the pardon of his Sins and of his Everlasting Salvation by Christ I suppose they did not mean that a true Believer may not have doubts and fears whether he be in Christ or no but that he may have a full assurance of his Justification without such extraordinary Revelation as the Papists speak of This Article is directed especially against the Papists whose Doctrine is that no Believer can attain a full assurance of his Salvation in this Life except he have an extraordinary Revelation from God 7. Gratia Salutaris non tribuitur non communicatur non conceditur universis hominibus qua Servari possint si velint 7 Saving Grace is not given is not communicated is not granted to all Men by which they may be saved if they will 8. Nemo potest venire ad Christum nisi datum ei fuerit nisi pater eum traxerit Et omnes homines non trahuntur a Patre ut veniant ad filium 8. No Man can come unto Christ unless it shall be given unto him and unless the Father shall draw him and all Men are not drawn of the Father that they may come unto the Son 9. Non est positum in arbitrio aut potestate unius cujusque hominis servari 9. It is not in the Will and Power of every one to be saved 3. I come to the Articles of Religion agreed upon by the Archbishops Bishops and the rest of the Clergy of Ireland in the Convocation holden at Dublin 16.5 Article 11. God from all Eternity did by his unchangeable Counsel ordain whatsoever in time should come to pass yet so as no Violence is offered to the Wills of the Reasonable Creatures and neither the Liberty nor the Contingency of second causes is taken away but rather Established Article 12. By the same Eternal Counsel God hath predestinated some unto life and reprobated some unto Death of both which there is a certain number known only to God which can neither be encreased nor diminished Article 13. Predestination unto Life is the everlasting purpose of God whereby before the Foundations of the World were laid he hath constantly Decreed in his Secret Counsel to deliver from Curse and Condemnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of Mankind and to bring them by Christ unto everlasting Salvation as Vessels made to Honour Article 14. The cause moving God to Predestinate unto Life is not the foreseeing of Faith or Perseverance or of good works or of any thing which is in the person Predestinated but only the good pleasure of God himself For all things being ordained for the manifestation of his glory and his glory being to appear both in the works of his mercy and of his justice It seemed good to his Heavenly Wisdom to choose out a certain number towards whom he would extend his undeserved Mercy leaving the rest to be spectacles of his Justice Article 15. such as are predestinated unto Life be called according to Gods purpose his Spirit working in due Season and through Grace they obey the calling they be justified freely they be made Sons of God by Adoption they be made like the Image of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ they walk Religiously in good Works and at length by Gods Mercy they attain to everlasting felicity but such as are not predestinated to Salvation shall finally be condemned for their Sins Article 25. The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turn and prepare himself by his own natural strength and good works to Faith and calling upon God wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasing and acceptable unto God without the Grace of
Voice To conclude this Chapter I would have this Author and all that shall read what I have written take notice that I shall not meddle with those few Passages that he quotes out of other Writers for some of his Opinions Indeed he seems as if he would put out another Book with Quotations taken out of Mr. Pierce and others out of the Ancients for some of his Opinions If this Author will trouble the World with more Books to no purpose who can help it He may do it with great ease though it may be he never saw the Books themselves but Mr. Pierce and Mr. J. G. will furnish him with Quotations out of the Greek and Latin Fathers to his hand But I shall not I say meddle with any Quotations of that nature for these Reasons Because 1. That before Pelagius broached his Errours the Fathers did not speak so distinctly and warily about the Points of Grace 2. That this way of deciding Controversies is endless As we see when our Protestant Divines took that way with the Papists we took the meaning of certain Passages one way and they another A learned Episcopal Divine and a Professor of Divinity in Cambridge long since said very well The Fathers in some things are for the Papists against us in some things they are for us against the Papists and in some things they differ both from the Papists and us But because this makes Controversies endless and casts a Mist before the Eyes of the Common People a learned Man amongst the Papists gives this Advice to those that have to do with Protestants Get them saith he out of their Castle of the Scriptures into the large Field of the Fathers And then he made account they could do well enough with them 3. That it is Scripture one Scripture compared with another that must decide Controversies As one of the Ancients said I would hear Thus saith the Lord. It is not what learned and Godly Men say but what the Scripture saith being rightly understood and one place thereof compared with another that must decide Controversies And there are certain Rules agreeing with the whole scope of Holy Writ that must be attended to as that no Scripture must be interpreted so as in the least to reflect upon the Soveraignty Immutability and Omnipotency of God No Scripture must be so interpreted as to disparage and dishonour that perfect and eternal Redemption that Christ God-Man hath obtained for us as if he died in vain for any for whose Sins he made his Soul an Offering No Scripture must be so interpreted as to puff up proud Man with a Conceit that he doth merit his Salvation when others perish by his Towardliness and Care for himself in improving his Talent better than others but that all our good Inclinations every good Thought and all holy Desires are freely given us of God It is he that worketh in us to will and to do and that not for any Worthiness and Towardliness in us above others but of his own good Pleasure of his free Mercy in Christ It is by Grace we are saved wholly by Grace from first to last Election was of mere Grace our Redemption was of mere Grace our Conversion of mere Grace all is from special discriminating distinguishing Grace We have not the least thing to glory in as if we had made our selves to differ from those that perish but we must wonder here and to all Eternity in Heaven that we should find Grace in the sight of the Lord. CHAP IX An Answer to the Author's Queries at the End of his Book THis Author did send me a Letter containing Six Queries now he hath added a Seventh and hath styled me Preacher to the independents which he did not in the Letter which he sent to me As for the Title of Independents we own it not we are Dependents upon God his Word and upon other Churches for Help and Brotherly Advice and Counsel in the Lord But we desire to keep our selves independent upon this Author or any other that shall pretend to have any spiritual Jurisdiction over us for we hold that there are no Churches of Christ's Institution under the New Testament but particular Congregations and that those particular Congregations have not power over one another but ought to be helpful and assisting one to another as the Matter shall require Independent is too high a Title for any Saints on Earth or in Heaven yea it is too high a Title for the holy Angels it is only fit for the Almighty and Everlasting God And I heartily wish that this Author would but acknowledge God to be Independent Absolute and Vncontrollable and then he would never write such a Book as he hath Arminianism is a Quarrelling with God about his Independency and Soveraignty in his Decrees and Dispensations as if God were not Independent Absolute and Uncontrollable but must be and must do as Men shall enjoyn him his Way Job 36.23 If this Author saw fit to publish his profound Queries it had been but common Honesty to have published also mine Answer for I sent him an Answer in a few Days and had another Letter from him which I also answered And out of that second Letter of mine he takes occasion for his Seventh Query It was well that I kept a Copy of my Letters A true Copy of my Answer to Mr. Grantham when he sent me his queries SIR INstead of Answering directly to your Quarrellings I do out of true Love to you beseech you in the Fear of God to consider of these following Particulars that may give you more Light into those Points about Election Redemption and Conversion 1. Consider the Infinite and Incomprehensible Majesty of God and the Inconsiderableness of all the Children of Men the Grashoppers and Worms of the Earth Isa 40.15 17 22. This may prepare our Hearts to think of his Decrees and Dispensations to the Children of Men with an holy Fear and Trembling 2. Consider that God hath made all things for himself for the Manifestation of his own Glory one way or other for the Glory of his Mercy or for the Glory of his Justice This was God's End Prov. 16.4 Rom. 11.36 Rev. 4.11 3. Consider that God hath an absolute Soveraignty an absolute Lordship and Dominion over the Children of Men to do with them as he pleaseth Isa 46.10 Exod. 33.19 Rom. 9.15 16 17 18. 4. Consider that none of us hold that God punisheth any but for Sin and that all having Sinned and come short of the glory of God he might have spared none of the Children of Men and his Throne have been guiltless from our Blood for ever Rom. 3.19 23. 5.12 5. Consider that the exceeding Riches of God's Grace is to be adored for ever that God should Predestinate any of the Children of Men to the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ give him to Redeem them and his Spirit to Sanctifie them Ephes 1.4 5 6 7. 1 Pet 1.3 6. Consider