works in vs For nothing pleaseth him but Iesus Christ his welbeloued sonne in whom he deliteth and no workes can be found agréeable but his For there is no goodnesse but in him Wherefore if we will haue any good thing in vs we must séeke â— borrow it of him And if we will that our works be pleasing vnto God it is necessary that Iesus Christ do them in vs thorow his holy spirite or otherwise the heauenly father cannot allow nor receiue them for good nor yet giue vnto them reward Eusebius I doe greately doubt that in magnifiyng so much the grace and mercy of God and the efficacie of the death and passion of Iesus Christe you giue occasion vnto many to doe euill without euer caring to do any good workes For if that men haue once this opinion that they are saued thorow the onelye grace and mercye of God and that they cannot merite paradise by their good works what néede they care to do any good déedes if it doth not serue them no more then the euill Theophilus I do feare moreouer that the doctrin which thou holdest doth induce and leade them vnto that which thou sayest For how many hath there bene who hauing that opinion to satisfie in Purgatorye for their sinnes haue giuen themselues vnto al vices during their life hoping that they will prouide so well to their affaires that for golde and siluer they shal be incontinentlye deliuered from the paines of Purgatory after they be dead And so by that meanes they did thinke that it was not néedefull to studye to doe good workes For they did hope to finde in their purse all that that shoulde bée néedefull for theyr saluation But for asmuche as it is a question touchinge good workes whom doest thou thinke can doe them best eyther the seruant which laboreth thorow feare and compulsion who would doe no laboure if he feared not to be beaten of his master or if hée hoped not but to receiue a good rewarde or the sonne who thorow an entier loue towards his father and taketh pleasure in none other thing but to serue and honoure him wel bicause of the natural loue that he beareth vnto him and of the knowledge that he hath of the great goodnes and benefits that he hath reâ—â—ed and doth receiue daily of him without any seruile feare but onelye for the reuerence and good affection that he hath towards him Eusebius There is no doubt that those whiche serue onely for feare to be punished or for hope of rewarde cannot serue faithfully nor lawfully but are as the seruaunts which serue to please the eye and do good seruice whilest that the master is present notwithstanding they haue no good will towards him Theophilus Yet neuertheles those which do follow the doctrine the which thou holdest are altogether like vnto those here For either they do giue themselues altogether to their pleasures and delites hoping that they will satisfie by money for their sinnes and redéeme themselues or if they studie to doé well they doe it not but thorow feare as a subiect doth serue a Tyraunt fearing â—o fall into his hands or as Merconaries Hirelings not for the loue they haue to god but for the loue they haue to themselues And so by that meanes eyther they do make GOD like vnto a cruel Tyraunt or to a polling Iudge théefe who for money absolueth the euill doers and as a companion of théeues taketh his parte of the hootie with them or els they make themselus god doe worship the workes of their handes sith that by them they do saue themselues and merite Paradise Wherefore they haue no néede of Iesus Christ I demaund of thee which art but a sinful man if thou wouldst take for a true friend a man which should do vnto thée seruice only for y feare that he hath of thée least thou shouldest do vnto him hurt or for hope that he should haue to feare thée better wout which hee would make none accompt of thée nor would not set by thée Eusebius I would holde him for a true freind of the kitchin which loueth more his belly theÌ„ me of whoÌ„ he is a friend not of me Theophilus And yet neuertheles if thou dost wel consider the nature of the Hipocrits Pharises who do attribute somuch vnto their workes thou shouldest finde them of such an amitye towardes God for whose loue they doe not that they do but for the loue of theÌ„selues and doe not serue god but after y manner as the beastes do serue men or for the feare that they haue to be beaten or for the nurrishment and foode that they doe receiue But without staying our selues anye longer vppon that pointe let vs returne vnto our talke of the Limbe sith that thou puttest the Limbe for the one and Purgatory for the other what difference dost thou put betweene those which were in the Limbe and those which were in Purgatory sith that the one and the other according to your doctrine were depriued of the fruition of God I doe greatly feare that in the ende thy Limbe and Purgatorie will become hell For if the holy fathers aswell Patriarkes as Prophets were depriued from such a goodnes wherein did they differ from the dampned And in like manner those whom thou ledgest in Purgatorye what néed haue they of any more greater tormeÌ„t or of any other fire for to torment them And what solace can they haue more then y damned if they were depriued froÌ„ y loves of Paradise and yet besides that to bee deteined in the fire Hillarius But at that time for that there was no Masse nor papistical Priests for to pray and do sacrifices for the dead they should continue a long time in those paines torments And which is more sith that in that time none could enter in Paradise when they had accomplished the time of their paines in Purgatorye whether went they when they departed from thence They could not but departe from one hell for to go into an other that is to say from purgatory to the Limbe where they were compelled to abide alwayes locked fast in the prisons of Purgatory vntill the comming of Iesus Christ Theophilus For to speake the truth I finde no great difference betweene hell and those other two lodgings Eusebius But there is great difference For these here do hope to come once vnto the eternall felicitie from y which the dampned are altogether depriued Theophilus There is then none other difference but that the one are defeined and kept in hell and dampned for euer the others are not but for a time And so your Limbe and Purgatory shal be in nothing different from the hell of the Origenistes and Catabaptistes who were in this foolish and false opinion that there is neither man nor diuell dampned perpetually but that all those whiche are deteyned in hell after a long space of time shal
although y be be taken with the deed he wil excuse himself And as y shameles whore is not a shamed to deny y which we see with our eyes hanole with our hands As we haue an example in Came. Although that he killed his brother and y his handes were yet all blouddy and wette with the bloud that he â—ad shed it seemeth to heare him speake that God did vnto him greate miury and wronge in asking him where he is And therefore God would vanquishe the malyce and peruersitie of mans hearte and condemne it by the workes that are manifest for to declare vnto him and to make him confesse by the fruite that he is the roote aâ—d the tree to the ende that he may not glorify himself to be the Figge the O life tree when one doth emdently shewe vnto him the thornes thistles that it hath born And euen so euery creature is constrayned to acknowledge and confâ—sse that the iudgement of God is iust and that it consisteth in all truth and equitie Now the workes y men do for vs after that wee bee dead are not ours Wherefore wee cannot saye that they follow vs For it is another matter to bee in the way and iourney and to haue already ended his iourney and to be arriued at the port whylest that we are in the course of this present life he taketh vs as a sree which yet groweth the which one may dresse and proyne for to make him beare fruite But when he is once cut downe ther is no more hope he lieth wher lie falleth he must trauayle no more afterwards In like maner may we iudge of man Whilest y he is in the way that he is in his course sight one may aide him by admonitioÌ„s entreatings other morkes of charitie which we owe y one to y other whilst y we are herein the work of god for vs to helpe the one the other to obteine win the victory But after that he hath called vs from the worke in the which he hath set vs wée must attend and looke no more but for the rewarde and Crowne of righteousenes the which the righteous Iudge shall giue vnto vs as Sainct Paul hoped for himselfe as we haue fought for him the good fight and haue fulfilled our course and haue kept the faith vnto the ende On the contrary we must looke for feare confusion and eternall death as the slougthfull seruant vnfaithfull and vngrations we haue hid away and stollen the Talent away from our Maister without bringing vnto him any profit Therefore Sainct Iohn saith Bring foorth fruites worthy of repentance that is to say thorow which you shewe foorth that truely you repent you of your sinnes and that you haue amended your euill life For the are is put vnto the roote of the tree so that euery tree whiche bringeth not foorth good fuite is hewen downe and cast in to the fire Uppon that maâ—ter Sainct Augustine did writte vnto Macedonius after this manner There is no other place for to correct and amende manners then in this life For after this life euery one shall haue that that hee hath gotteÌ„ here And in another place he saith In this world the mercy of god helpeth those y repâ—t But in y world to come repeÌ„tance profiteth not but we must riÌ„der accompt of our works Liberty of repeÌ„tance is only giuen vnto vs in this life after y we be dead there is no more licrÌ„ce of correctioÌ„ Now is y time of mercy after wards shal be the time of iudgment And in expouÌ„ding those words of Iesus Christ Hee which beleeueth not is already iudged saith after this maÌ„ner The iugâ—eiâ—eÌ„t appereth not yet but y iudgemeÌ„t is already done For y Lord knoweth who are his He knoweth those which abyde looking farryng for the crown those which abyde looking for the fire Moreouer Sainct Iohn Chusostome speaketh more plainely confirming that which I haue said in such words Prepare and make reaby thy works for the end and prepare thy self to the way and if thou haste taken any thing by violence from anye man restore it againe and make restitution and say with Zachens if I haue taken from any man by forged cauilatioÌ„ I restore him foure fould If thou art angry with any man agree with him before that thou do come vnto iudgement dispatche here al things that without let thou mayst sée that Iudictall seate All the while that wee are here in this world we haue goodly hopes but assone as we shal be gone from thence it lyeth no more in oure power to doe penaunce nor to deface and put out our sinnes For after the end of our life there is no more occasion of merites no more then there is vnto those the play at prises games to obtaine crownes and rewardes after that the combat play and prises are finished and ended For he which in this present life hath not washed away his sinnes afterwards he shal finde no consolation For in hell as it is written who shall confesse thee That is to say who shall prayse thee in the graue And by good reason For this is the time of the Theators of Combals Playes and Prises But the shal be the time of the Crownes rewards and salaryes Also let vs not thinke when we shall be come thyther that we shall haue mercy which do nothing at all wherefore we ought to haue pardon No though Abraham Noe Iob and Daniell did pray for vs Whilest then wee haue time let vs prepare for our selues great trust and assurance towards god And Sainct Hierome saith no lesse confessing that in the other world And Sainct Ambrose is of the same opinion saying Dauid required that his sinnes might bee pardoned him before that he departed out of this life For he that shall not here in this life receaue forgiuenesse of his sinnes shal not haue it in the other he shall not haue it bicause he shall not haue the power to come and attaine to the eternal life For the forgiuenes of sinnes is the eternall life Therfore saith hee pardon mee O Lorde that I may bee comforted before that I goo and shall be no more And therefore I greatly meruatle of that papisticall doctrine which is so repugnant both to the holy scriptures and to the witnesse of the auncient Doctors of the Churche Sainct Cyprian hath written in the Sermon that he made of the immortalitie that the faithfull that do dye haue taken white robes and garments By which he meaneth that they are come to the beatitude and felicitie and feacheth that we muste wéepe no more for the dead Sith that they are alreadie in the estate of felicitie But me thinkes that the Priestes do not take them to bee assured of the eternall life whom they lodge in their Purgatory but that from Purgatory they may yet
Ringing of belles 68 To ring for the time 75 Rule of the diuine seruice for the dead 63 Ruth and Booz 97 Ruth and Noeâ—â— 100. S. Diuers sacrafices the dead for diuers causes 10â— Sacrafice of Iesus Christ 48 Salt in the baptisute 35. Salt of wisedome â—5 Salt of the worde of God. 35. Salt of the Priests 35. Salting and seasoning of fooles 35 The salutation of the souldier vnto the holy fathers 39 Sampson and Dauid 94. The efficacie strength of Sathan 106 Satiffacion for sinnes 8â— Saturne and Rea. 59. All sauors are good so that money doe come 41. The sclpunder of the Pharises 18. Shepheards feeding themselues â—1 Scotlande and Irelande 27. Sellyng of offices 43. Sellying of the buriall 54. Senna therib 94. Sennacherib Romaine 94. Sepulcher of Iesus Christ 53. Sepulchers infatiable 52. White or paynted sepulchers 52. To sing after the dead 87. Singing of Masses 41. Signification and definition of an heritiche 60. Signification of belles 71. 74. Signification of hell 17. Signification of the deepe lake 89. Signe of the crosse 102 Sillogismus in Darif 51 Simonse and Simoniackes 53. Sinnes of Princes 30. Sinnes of the simple people 30. Sinnes of Princes and Cyronts 29. Siticines 66. Soppe in the throate 51. A soule drawenfrom hell 90 A soule taken in a net 89. To what serueth the washings of soules 36. The spertell of the priests 35. The spertell of Iesus Christ 34. To sprinkle the sepulchers with water 37. The spirite the author of purgatory 29. Stella Clericorum 48. Stephen the sixth 88. Stlgmates 103. Stile of the holy Ghost 18 Stix 9â— The Philosophicall stone 55. Stiffocations 36 Supper 42. T. Tanners of mens skinnes 65. Tannefat of the Priests 64. Temple of God. 49. The cause of the temptacions of y elect 1. Tempus 31 The Poeticall Theologie 24 Thuringie 26. Three differeÌ„ces of sinnes the diuersitie of the payues 31 Tibicines 66 Time of Gregory 96 Time of pestilence 36 The tyrant of tyrants and the pillers of the vsurers 30 Torches and candells at the burialls 33. Torches at the funeralls 70. Troianus delyuered from hell 9â— Tree of lyfe 90. The true science and cloquence 7. Tribute of the brine and of y stewes 41 Tribute of victualls of proces 42 Tribute of get pence and whores 42. Tribute of Moriages 42. Tribute of players 42 The papistical tribute of victualls 42 Tribute of whoores 43 Tributaries of Priests 54. Trophonius denne 27. V. Vealegon arder 51. Valut Canis é Nylo Prouerve 6 The vertue of the truth 30. The vertue of the habite of S. Fraunces 105. Vespiliones 65 Voyatge of Saint Patrickes wells 26. Vino rogum ne respargito 38. Vse holy water at burialls 101 Vow of Herode 81 W. To be in the way 35. Waters of Aegypt 95. Water of tribulation 94. Holy water 34. Holy water vnprofitable 88. To watch the dead 104. The olde woemen that doe keepe the children that be borne dead 44 Weeping of the Crocodile 64. Whoredome 81. Widow askng counsayle of the bells 72. Canon witnesse 24. Too wise or ouer wise 13. Holy woode 75. Idle worde 9. What good workes God requireth for the dead 100 Good works don to the dead by Booz 100 Workes of mercy towards the dead 97. What workes doe follow the dead 85. What workes God requireth of vs and to what ende 83 Workes of Angells and the elect 84. Workes done for vs after we be dead 85 Z. Zazel or Azazel a Diuell 101. FINIS TABVLAE ¶ THE SECOND PART of the Christian disputations By Maister Peter Viret Translated out of French into English by Iohn Brooke of Asshe next Sandwich MATHEVV XV. A. IX ¶ In vaine they worship me teaching doctrines which are nothing but mens precepts MIEVLX VAVLT MOVRIR EÌ„ VERTV QVE VIVRE EN HONCTE ¶ Imprinted at London by Thomas East THE SVMME OF THE third Dialogue IN this thirde Dialogue by reason that Eusebius mainteineth and vpholdeth that the Prayers and Sussrages for the dead are of Gods ordinaunce and of the institution of the auneient Church it is intreated off very amply by Theophilus and Hillarius and shewed out pointe by pointe of what originall and beginning that did first begin by whom it was begun and hath bene augmented as well amonge the Panims as the Iewes and Christians And what hath bene the customes and ceremonies of the one the other as well in their mourning and sorrowing for the dead as in their Anniuersaries Feastes Obsequies for the dead And bicause that there is great conformitie betweene the feastes dedicated vnto the dead as well among the Panims as the papisticall Christians we will declare euidently by conferring the one with the other not onely the agreeing that these feastes haue togother but also that which is amongest many other ceremonyes ioyned with them and depending vpon them The which haue bene borrowed of the Panims by the papisticall Christians or at the least wife the imitation is so cleere and euident that there is none but that he may easely iudge that they proceeded all from one spirite For to manifest and declare then thys same the better and for to make it the playnelyer to bee seene we will declare pointe by pointe the conformityes which are betweene the one and the other touching the diuerse feastes and dayes dedicated vnto the deade and touching the forbiddinge of marriage at certeine times Afterwardes the conformitie of some feastes and Idols of the Panims and Papistes and the feast of the candels and diuers purisications obserued of the one part and of the other And the consecrations of Torches Waxe Waxcandles Salt holy Water Fire Asshes and many other suche diuers matters by the which euory one may easely iudge who hath ben the authour of the popish Ceremonies and what difference there is betweene the auncient Panim Rome and the Romish Church such as it is at this present We doe call this Dialogue Anniuersaries or yeares mindes bicause that it maketh mention of many Ceremonies which yearelye haue bene obserued among the superstitious and Idolaters about the dead as of the straunge Gods. ¶ Now for to enter in the matter Theophilus beginneth after this manner THE THIRD DIALOGVE which is called Anniuersaries or yeares mindes THeophilus I am very glad bicause that you are all come in so good time chiefly of Eusebius For I greatly feared that he was offended with our talke and dysputations that we had yesterday But as farre as I can perceiue not with standing that he be very much rooted in his olde opinions superstitions yet neuer thelsse I know that he differeth much from a heape of obstinate and wilfull fooles which haue no reason at all to defende their cause nor know howe to take any other weapons then opinions and obstinations for to fight against the truth neither know how to finde any other meane to vanquish it and to reuenge themselues thereoff then to hurt and wrong those which do
worlde and causeth the lyght of his worde and gospell to shine thorow out the earth we ought not to doubt but that all those Madianits shal be in short time discouraged and discomâ—ited according to the Prophecie of Esay notwithstanding that the flocke and company of Iesus Christ be lyttle For it is puissant inough by vertue of their capitayne besides that they themselues shall bée discomfited with their owne swerde and shall fall into ruine with their Purgatory which hath but a lyttle hold or stay except thou do bring vnto it agayne some stone and morter for to repaire and amende it Eusebius I will employ all the meanes or wayes that I can finde out And therefore marke and regard how thou shalt ryd and discharge thy selfe of that which is written in Saint Luke where Iesus Christ saith The seruaunt that knoweth his masters will and prepareth net himselfe neyther did according to his will shall bée beaten with many stripes But he that knew not his masters will and yet did committe many things worthy of stripes shal be beaten with few stripes Now it is euen so that in hell there is neither little nor much For the paynes there are infinite And therefore it is called the hell fire the ertreame darkenes Wherefore it followeth that that pathe of which is heere spoken off cannot be vnderstanded but of the same of Purgatory in which may be more or lesse Theophilus There should be no hell if thou wilt so interprete the scripture What opinion hast thou of those of Sodome and Gomorrha Doest thou thinke that they be in hell or in Purgatory Eusebius I beleeue that they are in hell sith that their iniquitie hath bene so great that it must needes bee that God hath consumed them thorowe the fire of his iudgement Theophilus If there were founde among them some who féelyng the iudgement of God vppon them haue remembred the preaching admonitions which Loth made vnto them by the word of god and which haue had repentaunce and were sory for their sinnes in requiring mercie of God with a good heart and good affection in the middest of the fire I will not maynteine that God hath refused vnto them grace and mercie For he hath promised vnto the sinner as often as with a good heart he shall retourne vnto him Now if there be any such among them I leaue that to the iudgement of God who knoweth all things and those that are his For he punisheth sometimes some men with corporall paynes with the reprobate the which notwithwanding he condempneth not with them to eternall dampnation he punisheth them corporally as he chastiseth and correcteth his elect by affâ—ictions eyther bicause that they haue bene neglygent in rebuking the wicked and vicious or els that they haue giuen some consent vnto their vices and haue not hadde in recommendation the honour of GOD as they ought to haue had But bicause that they haue not abidden and continued hard hearted haue not sinned against the holy Ghost the Lord mittigateth their payne and is contented to chastice and correct them corporally for to humble them to make them to acknowledge their faulte and for to bée an example vnto others As the Apostle witnesseth of the Corinthians who for the dispising of the Supper of Iesus Christ were chastised of God with diseases and death Such might be the kindred of Loth. For it is not lyke to be true that Loth woulde haue taken allyaunce with them if they had ben altogether as abhominable as the others of the citie Yet neuertheles bicause they were vnbeleeuing of incredulytie and that they lyghtly regarded all things they were punished with the others for to giue others to vnderstande that it is not good to dwell among the wicked and to support their iniquitie Yet neuerthelesse I leaue the same to the iudgement of God who knoweth the hearts But I onely speake this to the ende we doée not iudge rashly of his secrets and iudgements except we haue expresse reuelation but those that haue perseuered in such a heart and such affection as they had when they would haue done vyolence vnto Loth and to his guests which he had receyued into his house and are dead in that wicked minde I doubt not but that they are perished For we haue the expresse word of god of the condempnation of such persons For I doubt not that of those Iesus Christ speaketh not when hée spake vnto his Apostles of those which reâ—ected the preaching of the Gospell Verely I say vnto you that those of Sodoma and Gomorrha shall be handeled more easely in the day of Iudgemet then those there In what place shall be that handlyng That shall not be in Paradise For where there is no payne there néedeth no mitigation Neyther shall it be in Purgatory For according to your owne doctrine it shall then cease It must néedes be then in hell Eusebius But how can that be in hell sith that the paine there is infinite Theophilus Thou must vnderstande that there is not so lyttle a payne which is not infinite and importable vnto him which is forsaken of God but yet neuerthelesse God may and can make his iudgement his wrath and indignation to be felt vnto some more then to other some But it followeth not therefore but that all men are constrained to cary it and but that it is a burthen importable to all men Therefore it is so often written that those which shal haue most sinned shal be most punished Now those vnto whome God hath giuen more fauour and grace and hath giuen more knowledge of his wil then the others doe sinne most griuously For they declare a more greater ingratitude malice and stubbernesse haue lesse excuse But it followeth not therefore that the ignorance and negligence doth excuse the others but that they haue their part Iesus Christ manaseth with a more grieuouser iudgement those which shall reiect his Gospell bicause that God hath shewed vnto them more grace and fauour then vnto the Sodomites and Gomorrians Wherfore they doe render themselues more culpable and inexcusable But although that the Gospell hath not bene preached so cléerely and plainly vnto the Sodomites Gomorians as vnto vs yet Iesus Christ doth not excuse them therefore altogether nor absolueth them of the iudgement of god But for to amplyfie the ingratitude malice of those which reiect the benediction and blessing of God he compareth them to the most execrablest that euer were vpon the earth Not for to iustifie the others but the better to confound those héere demonstrating vnto theÌ„ that their iniquitie is so abhominable that God condempneth thom whiche maye bée accompted and taken for good men in comparison of these not that they are but in comparison of the excessiue iniquitie of those héere After this manner we must vnderstand that place of S. Luke without dreaming out a Purgatorye For the
it in the month of February by y institution appointmeÌ„t of Numa Pompilius y second king of the Romaines Al the reason that moued Odillo procéeded but of ignoraunce for y he vnderstood not the cause whereof those gronings noise and feareful cryes which he hearde in Sicily about that mountaine did arise But imagined that it was the Diuels which haled and fore themselues by the haire sorrowing with great despite that they sawe thesoules goe out of paines and tormentes But his imagination hath brought no hurt to his couent nor to all the other Monkes and Priestes For that sanie day is the best faire that they haue all the yeare and a time in which they make haruest and vintage altogether with not taking ouermuch paines If the soules of the deceased haue as much gaine as they they may bée very ioyfull of the feast Thomas But I woulde gladly knowe from whence those cryes and mourninges did procéede whether they came from the Diuels or from the soules of the dampned or from those which are kept in Purgatory or of some other naturall cause Hillarius The cause is easie to bée knowne of him who wyll vnderstande what is the situation and nature of the place For of the one side is the roaringe of the Sea which maketh an horrible noise on the other side the greate goulfes of fire that arise and come out of the mounteyne Wherefore when the vehement â–ª windes doe blowe and enter violently into the holes and caues that are â–ª there and mingle themselues wyth those vaines of brimstone kindled with that impetous fire wée must not meruaile when all those thinges mixt and confused together doe méete if there are fearefull cryinges and such which the Poet hath described saying Loâ— here the hill that Aetna hight most horrible to beholde Thundring out and making cries most terrible to be tolde Which many times doth cast froÌ„ it of clowds that are ful darke And also vvhirle vvinds that are great vvith smoke that is ful black And burning sparkes of fire did fly and flames that are most great Which from the fire rose sodeinly and toucht the heauenly seat Which oftentimes doth vomit out the hovvels and the guts Of rockes and stones that are full hard which in that hil ther luâ—kes Thomas I doe then much doubte if it bée euen so as you saye but that the good Odillo was deceyued and that hée and all his Monkes haue greatly dreamed Hillarius They haue at the least so much dreamed and those which haue beléeued their dreames as they who stayinge themselues vppon the fables of Poets haue thought that Enseladus Briarnis and the other Gyauntes were buried vnder that great and burning hil of Aetna after that Iupiter destroyed them with lightning and ouerthrewe them vppon the mounteines that they had made for to ascend into heauen when they warred agaynst him For euen as they imagined that those fearefull and terrible Gyauntes were enclosed vnder that mounteyne who remouinge themselues from the one side to the other dyd cast and throwe foorth those great and daungerous â—â—â—tes flaminge fyers whoorlewindes and smoked Those héere doe put the Dyuels in sléeâ—e of the Gyants And doe attribute vnto them that which the mounteyne doth naturallye So as other dreamers and foâ—â—es haue done of the mounteine of Islande and Norwaye of which they that haue written of those Regyons Countryes doe wytnesse that they are almost like vnto that hyll Aetna and specially about the borders of Norwaye For they say that there is there a mounteyne commonly called Hechelbergo enuironed with the Sea the most horrible and fearefull that is in the worlde And for to make the tale better and the thing more meruaylous they saye also that there are hearde the cryinges wéepinges and lamentations of the soules which goe into Hell insomuche as those horrible cryes and noyse are spreade and heard a myle rounde aboute They adde moreouer that there are very great and meruaylous blacke Rauens Crowes which flye rounde about it makinge also horrible cryes in such sort that they terrefie euery man that none bareth to approche nighe vnto that mounteine Afterwards ther ariseth out of the same two fountaines whereof the one is of such vehement and excessiue coldenesse and the other of such heate that both of them are intollerable and there is no Element howe colde or hotte soeuer it bée but that they surmounte it both in heate and coldenesse And which is more in that same Countrey towardes the South partes as men saye there is a place called Nadhegrin in which the Dyuels of that place doe appeare vnto men whome they sée before their eyes hauing bodies of the ayre Thomas Odillo might haue had better occasion to haue situated Hell and Purgatory there then in the hyll Aetna Hillarius It woulde haue had better appearaunce if those thinges were true But if wée shoulde staye our selues vppon such dreames and lyes wée myght also forge an other Hell and Purgatory in Scotland in which men say that there is a hill full of sorrow very fearfull by reason of the cryes of those that do wéepe and lament there And in Thuringia there is a hill in which ther are heard most horrible noise cryes And y hath not onely the name to be frequeÌ„ted with Faunes Satyres which are a kinde of Diuels which many waies haue seduced y Panims But also some do affirme y they haue séene the same by experience And some writers Authours accoÌ„pted for men worthy of credite haue written it Thomas There should bée then many Helles and Purgatories by that accompt But bicause I feare very much that there are great follies and lyes in those histories I thincke that it shoulde bée most sure and expedient for mée to take that way which I first purposed then to take the way either in Sicily or in any of those places that you haue named vnto mée For the way is not much frequented nor knowne as that is which I haue taken vppon mée except you haue touched the one of the countries whether I would goe Hillarius Whether haue you then enterprised to goe Thomas I doe make mine accompt to goe straight into Scotland or into Ireland Hillarius Is there any way to descend into these infernall Regions and countries Thomas Haue you euer heard spoken of the voyage and Caues of Saint Patricke doe you not remember the bookes that we had at schoole when wée were little children Hillarius You make me now remember the saying of my Graundfather Were we not happy in those daies that we had such bookes in our handes in stéed of some good Authour and of the Bible and holy Scriptures If wée consider well the vnhappinesse and misery of that time and barberousnesse and ignoraunce both of God and all good discipline which then possessed all the worlde and compare it with the mercy which GOD at
of them which Dauid hath written of his enemies saying their throat is an open sepulchre And that which Esay speaketh off saying hell gapeth and openeth hir mouth meruailous wide For of all that they can once lay hand on nothing euer retourneth againe no more then from the mouth of hell and graue But which is worse the graue consumeth deuoureth but the dead bodies but these do deuour both the quick the dead And we may very wel say y these are the Harpyes of whom Virgile maketh mention off But bicause they are faire and goodly sepulchres as the Scribes Pharises who do neuer cease to crye Corban Corban giue giue offer offer and as the daughter of the Horseléech Bringe bringe to the candles of the good Sainct Bicause they are so beautifull pollished without y poore world cannot know theÌ„ although they do sée them deuoure eate vp widowes houses before their eies vnder colour of long praiers For they haue those goodly habites of religion goodly Ornaments Ceremonies goodly names titles and that goodly appearaunce of holinesse which do couer beautifie those sepulchres tombes in such sort that men cannot perceiue the filthinesse infection that is there hidden and kepte close within but passe ouer it without any aduisement as men doe by the Sepulchres Theophilus They are more open and dyscouered then néede required For GOD hathe nowe raysed vppe a people whome they woulde not haue who haue in suche sorte remoued all that filthe and infectyon that it stincketh throughoute the whole worlde And we must not be abashed if they call them the Sepulchers of Iesus Christ and though they doe meruaylously stincke sith that Iesus Christ is altogether deade in them and to them and that they haue nothing at all For if Christ lyue not in vs what other thing can wée bee but dead carryons stincking and infectious who doe not onely rotte and consume themselues but doe rotte and consume with them all other things Eusebius All of you doe cry out agaynst the Priestes Haue you now all sayd It was not inough for Hillarie to speake euill and backebite but that you must ayde and helpe him Theophilus and meddle also as well as hée Theophilus You neuer sawe a man that delyteth lesse to speake euill and backebite and to heare euill speakinge and tales But truth constrayneth mee and you oughte to vnderstande that to speake truth for the health of ones neighbour is not to speake euill backebite and slaunder any man Would to God I coulde speake as much good of them as of the Apostles For I doe loue better to praise their vertue charitie and mercy then to dispise their vices crueltie auarice and rapacitie But what will you that I speake If I doe sée a poore man who is wandring alone in a forrest or woode full of théeues am not I bounde to giue him warning of the daunger he is lyke to fall in If I say nothing vnto him am not I guyltie of his death sith that I knew the daunger And if I encourage him to enter and tell him that there is no daunger am not I then more culpable and worthy to be taken for a murtherer of my poore brother But if I doe admonish him of the daungers and of the théeues Doe I wrong vnto the theenes in callyng them by their name Shoulde I doe better and according to Gods commaundemet to call them good people for to saue their honour and that I should put my brother into their handes to haue them to cutte his throate What goodnesse can I finde in those who from the greatest to y least are al excommunicated iudged Simoniacks and Heretickes vnworthy of all Ecclesiasticall honour and office not onely by the authoritie of the holy Scriptures but also by their owne councells decrées and Canons For how many Councells Decrées and Canons be there that doe forbid to demaunde and take giftes rewardes presents hire or siluer nor any thing whatsoeuer it bée for creame baptisme orders laying on of hands for y earth nor Sepulture neyther for Sacraments nor whatsoeuer office is in the Church vnder payne of excommunication and to be holden and reputed Simoniackes Heretickes and Sacriledgers and depriued and deposed from theire offices and honours and not onely they that receiue the money but also those who doe giue it for such things Thomas There shall be then by that compte no Christian who shall not be excommunicated For among the priests there is not one but hath receiued money for such thinges nor among the people but hath disbursed somewhat Theophilus Therefore you may consider what communion may be in y Popish Church For Saint Peter did not only curse in the authoritie of God Symon the Sorcerer of whome Simony and Simoniackes haue taken their name but also the money that he offred for to buy the gifte of God withall Now if Symon for offering y money hath receiued such malediction what ought it to be vppon them that doe cleane contrary to Saynt Peter who doe not onely receiue but also doe compell the poore people to giue it them I doe not héereby meane that the true Euangelycall Priests and true Pastors of the Church are not worthy of their nourishment and rewarde But I speake agaynst those Merchaunts which are in the Church of God whom Saynt Peter hath forespoken who haue both GOD and the Diuill to sell Paradise â—nd Hell holy things and prophane things and which doe exercise merchandises of all things and are polluted and dâ—filâ—d with all Simonie and Sacriledges that they themselues haue bene constrayned to condemone them And he that will not beléeue me lette him read Platine in the lyues of the Popes and the decrees of the Councell of Elybertine holden in Spayne in the time of Constantine and that of Tholet holden in the yeare 713 and that of Calcedone And the 4. of Carthage And the Councell of Tiburien and Varensian who doe condempne namely those that take money for the buryalls saying after this manner Wherefore dost thou sell the earth Remember that thou art earth and into the earth shalt retourne agayne For the earthe is not mans but as the Psalmist Dauid witnesseth the earth is the Lords and all that therein is If thou doe sell the earth thou shalt be holden guyltie of larcenie as he that attributeth vnto himselfe the thing of an other mans Thou hast receyued it of God fréely giue it fréely And bicause it is altogether forbidden to all Christians to sell the earth vnto the dead and to deny vnto them the graue and burial which is due vnto them Item we must commaunde according to the authoritie of the Canons that one should not demaunde or receiue any thing for mens burialls nor for their graues And hée that would sée the opinion of Gregorie lette him reade the Epistle wherein he rebuked Ianuarius Bishop
could be done Theophilus It hath taken as good effect among the superstitious ChristiaÌ„s as among y panims For euen as the Panims hipocrites haue ben the Apes of the Patirarches Prophets and true seruants of God so haue those bene héere For all that which the Panims dyd dyd séeme to haue some coulour and imitation of the lawe whiche God gaue vnto hys people For that which they sacryficed in the mountaynes that they caused the chylbren to passe thorow the fire sacrificed them vnto Moloch and the wasshings that they had dyd seeme to be taken of the custome of the auncient Patriarches and of the people of Israell after that sorte as the Turkes doe followe them at this daye who doe spende and bestow a great parte of the time aboute such wasshinges and Ceremonies But there is greate difference For although they followe somewhat in outward appearaunce the woorkes of the auncient seruauntes of God yet neuerthelesse they fayle greatlye in that that they doe it wythout the commaundement of God followinge onely their foolishe santasie and opinion And they dooe it not in such fayth to such intent and wyth suche a spyrite as they dyd For they dyd them to render obedyence vnto the commaundement of GOD the whiche was vnto hym a sacrifice more agréeable then the Ceremony which for that ende was ordayned Nowe these héere cannot scriue God by such obedyence sith that they haue no commaundement But they doe offende thorow disobedience despysinge the meanes that he hath commaunded and choosinge others contrary vnto his wyll Furthermore the true Israelites dyd not thinke to bée purified by those outwarde thinges but had regarde onely vnto the bloud of Iesus Christe by them represented And they trusted but onelye in the mercye of god But those â—éere doe attribute the vertue vnto the outwarde woorke and to the creature sayinge that such Ceremonies and Sacraments haue efficacy by the vertue of the woorke done Or if thou louest rather in theire naturall language Ex virtute operis operati Nowe if the Prophetes haue rebuked and condempned the vipocrites who haue put the whole trust of their health and saluation vnto the ceremonies commaunded by the lawe of God and haue reiected and reproued their sacrifices and purifications how much more are our hipocrits to be condemned which do not only make a god of their works but which is worse doe make the same of the woorkes which are nothing at all commaunded of God but altogether condempned Hillarius Wée may rightly compare them vnto those good merchaunts of whom Ouid maketh mencion after this manner Hard by Capena gate there is of Mercury a well Wherein is vertue rare and straunge as cunning folkes doe tell For Merchaunts doe thether repaire with pitcher ready pight And therewithall doe water drawe by vertue of whose might The Laurell branch is dropping wet and all those things that shall By Masters right be set to sale are sprinckled therewithall And after that his head is wet by sprinckling of the bayes Vnto the Gods in wonted wise his prayer thus he sayes Wash off sayth he my periury of those times that are past Wash of my false and fained woords my falsehood now off cast Bycause that they holde and accompt Mercurius for the God of the théeues it semeth vnto them that the one of the théeues wyll easelye absolue the other and that the larcenies periuries and rapines shall be washed away as soone as they shal cast a little water vpon them Wherfore our Papistes knowing that they haue the like God in the earth do the like Theophilus Therefore it is more then néede to crye with Esay Be ye washed Be ye cleane But how Put away the euill from your thoughts before mine eyes saith the Lorde And with Ieremy O Hierusalem wash thine hearte from wickednes And with Iesus Christ Thou blind Pharisie clense first the inside of the Cup and Platter that the outside of them maye bée cleane also Giue almes of that you haue and béehold all thing is cleane vnto you And therefore must wee say with Dauid O purge mée with Isop and I shal be clean wash thou mée and I shal be whiter then Snowe For there is none which can make that holy water but he only who hath put the ministry of his Gospel in his Church which is the true sprinkeling of Isop which thorow the preaching of Iesus Christ crucified sprinkeleth and purgeth with his precious bloud our soules and consciences Hillarius There is nothing truer then that thou sayest as I will yet declare more perticulerly First as touching the purifications sprinklings of water that is already too muche proued of the same is taken that which Ouid writeth of Deucalion and Pirrha his wife willing to enter into the Temple of the Goddesse Themis of whom he speaketh after this manner after the translation of the English Poet. Whose sacred liquor straight they tooke and sprinkled with the same Their heads and clothes and afterward to Themis Chappell came In like manner Ouid rehersing the things which were called Februa bicause that the auncients vsed it in their purgations maketh mention of the woll salt meale and bowghes which they caused to be consecrated for diuers purifications of men beasts and houses the which things the Papists haue almost altogether the like For besides the water and the fire the war and the salt they haue as many holy wolles holy linnen clothes and sacred vestements They haue the holy bread and the bread of Sainct Agathe which hath also great power and the holy bowghs vpon the day of Palme Sunday and of Caster flowers But the Panims do approche neerer to the auncient lawe of Moses in their holy asshes then the Papistes For the Iewes dyd it with a red Cow young and which neuer carryed yoke The Panims dyd theirs with a young Calfe newely taken from his mothers belly the which the most auncientest of the virgins of the Goddesse Vesta as wee may say the mother of the Prioresse burned in that holy fire which was made vpon the aulter of the saide goddesse as it appeareth by these verses of Ouid saying The eldest virgin amoÌ„gst theÌ„ then those calues doth burn with fire To haue the asshes not to seeke when time shall then requite That when the feast of Pales doth approch at hand so fast The people may be pure and cleane when it is on them cast Theophilus I doubt not but that Panish superstition was some thing taken of the imitation of the people of God but that whiche was done by the people of God vnto his honoure and contayninge the misteryes of the redemption was done in Idolatrye and superstition without faith amonge the Panims as it is now amonge the Papistes Hillarius I am of thine opinion But yet neuerthelesse mee thinketh that the Panims haue more shewe and colour for to defend them by the word of
now Eusebius There is no doubt of it Theophilus Sith that it is so tell mée what soules went thether For eyther it must bée altogether emptie and voide or else it must be that some went thether eyther those of the elect faithfull or those of the Infidels and reprobate Now I do not thinke that thou wilt say that the Purgatory was for the Infidels and reprobate Eusebius One may so iudge by that which is written of the wicked rich man. Theophilus Sith then that hell was for the reprobate it followeth then necessarily that the soules of the elect shoulde goe into Purgatorye If it hée so to what ende serueth the Limbe For you doe saye that all the Patriarches Prophetes and true faythfull whiche are departed out of this worlde before the death and passion of Iesus Christe were there kepte and deteyned and they coulde not goe into Paradise vntyll such time as Iesus Christe had satysfied for them Wherefore I doe conclude accordinge to your doctrine eyther that the Limbe and Purgatorye were all one place and lodginge or else that the one of them two was voyde and supersâ—uous or that there was but one or for to speake the truth neyther the one nor the other For if the Limbe were for to receiue the faythfull that dyed in the fayth of the promyse made vnto Abraham what néede was there anye more of Purgatorye bad they not Purgatorye suffycient inough in the Limbes Were they not sufficientlye tormented to bée excluded from Paradise and depryued from the ioyes thereoff and from the fruytion of the glorye of GOD as you doe affirme For what more greater torment can a faythfull man haue then to bee depryued from suche a good thinge That is not onely a Purgatorye but a very hell Eusebius I do know that in hearing thée speake that thou which wouldest teache others art yet in greater ignoraunce and that thou vnderstandest verye euyll this matter The Limbe then was for those which were in such estate as those are nowe which haue finished their penaunce and haue made entire and whole satisfaction for their sinnes in this world which doe go strayght waye into Paradyse sauinge that those there cannot yet enter bicause that the doore was shutte vntyll that Iesus Christ came to open it and to breake the gates of Hell. Theophilus Wherefore was the Purgatorye Had it in it yet a certeyne other sorte of soules and of an other condytion then those which went into the Limbes Eusebius Yea. For thou mayst well vnderstande that all the faythfull which haue procéeded and bene before the comminge of our Lorde Iesus Christe haue not all of them bene so holy and so perfect as the Patriarches and Prophetes Wherefore it were no reason that incontinently after they are deade they shoulde receyue as much felicytie as they wythout they doe first accomplishe and ende their penaunce in Purgatorye and satysfie for their sinnes the which they haue not done in thys world as the holy Patriarches and Prophets haue done or otherwyse GOD shoulde not bée iuste For what reason is it that hée whiche hath lyued in all viees and sinnes all the time of this lyfe vntyll the laste tyme of hys death in whiche gée hath had repentaunce of hys sinnes and hath asked mercye of God shoulde haue no more gréeuous punishment but should receiue as great reward as he which al his life time hath serued God faithfully and hath alwayes lyued in holynesse righteousnesse and innocencie Theophilus Take héede thou doe not blaspheme God and doe imurye vnto his grace and mercye For I doe greatly feare but that thou wilt bée like vnto the brother of the prodigall childe who was enuious against his brother and murmured against his father béeing angrye at the gentle receiuing and of the grace and fauour that hee dyd vnto his sonne whome he had recoured béeing reduced and brought into the right way or least that thou be one of the companions of theÌ„ which were hired to work in the vineyard which did murmure against the good man of the house bicause y he did giue as much wages vnto those whom he called at the eleuenth houre a little before night for to work in his vineyard as vnto those whoÌ„ hée appointed from the morning which haue borne the burthen and heate of the day Wherfore dost thou not accuse our Lord Iesus Christ who hath aunswered vnto that poore theefe who dyd hange vppon the Crosse â—â—yth him This daye shalt thou bée with mée in Paradise What good déedes had hée done before Art thou enuious of the grace which God doth vnto the poore sinners Eusebius God forbid But we must vnderstand that as God is mercifull so is hée righteous And if the théefe which was crucified with Iesus Christ had had that priuiledge it followeth not therefore that all haue the lyke or that they ought to haue it For as the lawe makers doe say the priuiledges of a fewe are not common lawes to all men Theophilus If that théefe hath receiued so greate goodnesse by one singular priuiledge I doe aunswere vnto thée further that none is saued but by priuiledge For all wée haue meryted eternall dampnation of our nature Inasmuch then as wée be saued that is thorow a singular priuiledge which is giuen of God vnto the elect by Iesus Christ which is not common vnto the reprobate Eusebius There is yet an other reason wherefore that théese went straight into Paradise wythout passinge by the fire and the paines of Purgatorye that is bicause that he had alreadye done his penaunce in this world and hath satisfied for his sinnes Theophilus What penaunce or satisfaction coulde hée haue made For the theftes and murthers for which hée was hanged on the Gybet Eusebius But it was the paine that hée endured and suffered and the death that he hath receiued for his demerites Theophilus As much did his companion suffer which was hanged on the left hande but yet neuerthelesse his torments haue serued him nothing at all and hée dyd not heare such promise of Iesus Christ as the other Eusebius Bicause that hée dyd not take his death and torment quyetly and patientlye and hath not beléeued in Iesus Christe and demaunded pardon of hys sinnes as his companion did Theophilus Thou alwayes commest vnto my compt and thou shalt hée compelled to confesse that there is nothinge which was the cause of his saluation but the faith which he had in Iesus Christ and the mercy of God which hée hath obteyned by the same without that that God had regard neither to his dignitie or worthinesse nor vnto his workes but vnto Iesus Christe his sonne for whose loue he hath pardoned him not for the forment and death which the théese hath suffred and the satisfaction that he could doe vnto him but for the forment death and passion which Iesus Christ hath suffred the satisfaction that he hath made for him the which