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A26960 More reasons for the Christian religion and no reason against it, or, A second appendix to the Reasons of the Christian religion being I. an answer to a letter from an unknown person charging the Holy Scriptures with contradictions, II. some animadversions on a tractate De Veritate, written by ... Edward Herbert, Baron of Cherbury ... / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. Reasons of the Christian religion. 1672 (1672) Wing B1313; ESTC R4139 63,611 190

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was not existent till 4000 years after having any proper casuality to change Gods mind or will The sum of the Christian Doctrine about the Interposition and Redemption by the Son for man upon his fall is but this As if God should say I will not destroy or damn sinful man remedilesly according to the strict termes of the Law of Innocency which he hath broken but will give him a remedying Covenant of Grace because I will in the fulness of Time provide better for the glorifying of my Truth and Holiness wisdome and goodness justice and mercy than the remediless destruction of mankind would do even by the Incarnation doctrine sacrifice merits c. of the eternal word So that this grand work of God is the cause of his subordinate works but not the cause of any real but only relative or denominative mutation in himself This all sound Christians are agreed in And can this offend you Secondly And for the termes of communication of Grace to man it is either First The New Covenant as a Gift of pardon and life Secondly Or the conditions which it requireth of man First The former you neither do find fault with nor can do That God should give the world a Recovering and pardoning Law Secondly The second is all that is here liable to your exception And what do you think amiss in that First Not that Repentance is one of the Conditions of further Grace for that you plead for Secondly Not that Fides in Deum misericordem Faith in Gods revealed me●cy as pardoning sin is required of man for that also you plead for But you would have his goodness and mercy to be a sufficient satisfaction to his Justice Answ First I hope you will not exclude his wisdome because you abhorre Atheism as folly Secondly And I hope you will distinguish between the prime satisfying Cause and the satisfying means These plainly differ The prime satisfying Cause is Gods wisdome contriving and determining of the fittest way to communicate his love and spirit But the prime satisfying means is Jesus Christ who was to do that which was fittest to attain the foresaid ends But that which you will accept against is that the Belief in Christs future incarnation was made then necessary to salvation Answ First See that you feign not the Christian Doctrine to say more of this than indeed it doth which I have opened to you before I told you how narrow the Apostles own faith was before Christs Resurrection We know that ●● the believing Jews knew not so much as they nor so much as the Prophets and more illuminated men And we know that the rest of the world had not so full a revelation as the Jews But we know that all that had the notice of his promise were to believe the truth thereof And those that had not the word of promise made known to them had the possession of many such mercies as that promise gave and as intimated much of the same grace which the promise did Thefore none could be bound to lessthan to believe that God of his mercy would pardon sin and save penitent Believers by such a means of securing the honour of his holiness truth and justice as his infinite wisdome should provide This much you cannot deny And that the promise of the Victorious seed though it seem too obscure to bind men to so distinct a faith as ours is was by Tradition told to Adams posterity and that they had a General belief of such an expiation for some time seemeth intimated in the early and almost universal use of sacrificing of which I shall speak more anon Hitherto then I have vindicated the Christian Doctrine of mans salvation for the first 4000 years Secondly And is there any thing since which should make it more offensive to you First As to the Person of Christ I have said enough in my Treatise the Reason of Christian Religion Verily I think it far harder to confute those that feign all the world to be animated by God as the universal Soul and to conceive how God who is most intimate to all things in whom we live and move and are should not be as neerly united to all things as Christians believe him to be to the humane nature of Christ though undoubtedly it is not so than that he should have that neer union with his humane nature Secondly And as to Christs work I have so largely shewed you the necessity the reasonableness and the harmonical congruities that I will not repeat them In a word The New Testament is the Doctrine of the eternal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wisdome or word of God Incarnate to communicate the Divine Spirit and love to man to be a sacrifice for sin the Conqueror of Satan Death and Sin the Head over All things to the Church the Author of Redemption the grand Administrator of the new Covenant the Reconciler and Restorer of man to God the Teacher Ruler and High Preist of the Church in order to this our Restoration and Salvation Thirdly But if it be the Time of his coming that doth offend you I have answered that and further adde First What is there in foolish man that should encourage him to dream that he better knoweth the fittest season for Gods works than God himself Secondly Man was not all the while before without the Benefits of this dedesigned and undertaken Redemption He was still under a Covenant of Grace Thirdly Consider well that God did not intend to give mankind that had so heinously sinned by preferferring the Devils word before his a present and a perfect pardon but onely to give a new Law and Covenant which should be a conditional gift of pardon to be obteined in full perfection in time and by degrees we had made our selves voluntarily the Slaves of Satan And God would not deliver us all at once We had forfeited the heavenly assistance of the holy spirit and God would not give it us all at once Mans time of healing the wounds of his own sin is the time of this life and the perfect cure will not be done till our entrance into the perfect world And as it is with Individual men so it is with the world of all mankind Grace mitateth nature and doth all by degrees darker Revelations were meeter for the Infancy of the world and clearer at noon day and riper knowledge fitter for its maturity And when Satan by Divine permission had plai'd his part and seemed to triumph over the sinful world it was time for Christ to come by Power Wisdom and Goodness meanly cloathed to cast down his Temples and Altars to subsidue his Kingdoms and to triumph over the Triumpher Fourthly But if it be the present conditions of the new Covenant since Christs Resurrection that offendeth you viz that the world is required to believe in him I have answered that and now adde First Remember what I said before that no mans condition is made worse by Christ than
man is so easily brought to And therefore the Question must be whether really these Heathens do truly Repent and Love God as God or not Answ First Here you may perceive that though before you did but require that salvation be brought down to the Sinners choice yet now that will not serve the turn Yea though Faith in God and true repentance were the terms that you were satisfied should be imposed on all yet now you are loth to stand to that unless we grant that all these men have the power so to beleive and repent Well if by power you mean a Natural faculty we grant that they have the power of Intellection and Uolition And if it be the object that is in question we grant that the object of that Faith and Repentance which you mention your self is certain and existent And if it be the evidence of the object that is in question we grant that the Being Power Wisdome Goodness Holiness Truth Justice and Mercy of God are revealed to manking by an evidence sufficient in its kin if their souls be but rightly disposed to receive it And that sin to be repented of is discernable in themselves is doubtless Amyraldus largely laboureth to prove that as God bindeth no man to natural impossibilities that is to any Act without First A faculty that can do it Secondly An Object Thirdly Evidence of that Object As not to see First without an eye Secondly That which is not in being Thirdly Or that which is a thousand miles off or in the dark without Light so that all Heathens have first the natural faculty Secondly An object which would save them if truly believed in and Loved that is God Thirdly A Revelation of this object And that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is such an object as would procure their felicity if duly apprehended See also Mr. Trumans Treatise of Natural and Moral Impotency But indeed when all is done the wit of man that is offended with God as if he gave not all men a power to be saved will not be satisfied if that be granted unless also he actually save them Should we grant you all the rest if some yet are damned when God could have saved them it will not satisfie them that will be above God and will judge their Judge But because you seem satisfied with less suppose all the question come to this Whether or no those that never had the Gospei do ever come without it to true faith in God and true repentance and so to be saved Answ First And when we have granted you what you first desired that none perish but those that are willfully impenitent and believe not truly in God why must the controversie be carried to mens hearts and acts I can read Gods Law but I cannot know or read the hearts of millions whom I never saw Must I be obliged to know the thoughts of every man in China Tartary Japan or the Antipodes Secondly What number is it that you put the question of and whose Repentance you assert Is it All or but some If All he must be mad that believeth it that All men are true penitent Belivers in God If but some First Would not your wit quarrel still with God for damning all the rest Secondly And must it be the greater part or the lesser or would you know on what number or where to find satisfaction And what have we to do to judge anothers Servants To their own Master they stand or fall Secondly And methinks you should easily grant at least First That Repentance and Holiness is far easier to them that have the Gospel than to them that never heard it Secondly And that they are far more common And so that far more Christians are holy and saved than of others For First Tell me If God should send an Angel from Heaven as aforesaid with miraculous evidence of his mission to call men to repentance and belief in God and Glory would it not be easier for those men to repent than for others Nay would not you the easilier believe in Christ your self if you had but such an Angel to confirm you why then should not the word of Christ who by his Miracles Resurrection and the donation of such a Spirit to his Servants proved his mission from the Father be a help to our Faith and Repentance Especially when his word hath a self evidencing Light also in the Image and superscription of God upon it Secondly You will not deny but that the difference of common lower means doth make Repentance much easier or harder to one than another Take one man that is born in Brasile or Soldania or among any other savage People or that is bred up in a Tavern Ale-house or Whore-house or Gaming house among those that make a scorn of godliness and take another that is bred up to Learning Labour and Godliness among them that by doctrine and example do honour and command a godly righteous sober life And hath not one of these abundance more hinderances to his Repentance than the other Thirdly And will not sense and experience make you certain that the Christian part of the world hath more such helps than all the rest Is there not more Reason Learning Sobriety Doctrine all sorts of Teaching there than among the rest Were it but that Christianity hath furnished the World with more helps to repentance and Holiness the case were clear Fourthly And a little acquaintance with the World and the History of it may fully satisfie you that de facto there are actually far more knowing penitent holy Persons among Christians than among any others When therefore the fact it self is undeniable and we see that more Souls are healed by Christ in the Church than in the World without what need we any greater evidence And if there were no more in it than this that the actual knowledge or belief of Christ incarnate doth make so great an addition to the helps and hopes of Sinners and maketh conversion from sin to God and salvation so much more easie and common as Aquinas Cont. Gent. argueth should not this be received with the greatest thankfulness rather than with unreverent arrogant Contradiction But I proceed to overthrow your Fundamental Error That repentance alone with the mercy of God is a sufficient satisfaction for our sins to divine Justice First If it be but proved that de facto God hath required and provided another Sacrifice for satisfaction then you cannot call Repentance alone sufficient But this is proved fully Secondly If the great work of our Redemption by Christ have all those blessed ends tendencies and effects and bring all those benefits to mankind which in the treat forementioned I proved If it was so actual a demonstration of Gods wisdom and love of his holiness and truth his Justice and Mercy as is there manifested and proved If it have brought men such helps to Repentance and Holiness as are forementioned how perverse will it
most necessary clear and certain must be held accordly with a more clear assured confidence than those that are unnecessary dark And that uncertainties must be reduced to certainties and not certainties to uncertainties And that all arguing should be a notiore and not a minus not is And as I said before as the Trunks of the Tree the Veins the Arteries the Nerves are few and visible and easily and surely known when the thousands of little branches are hardly visible or numerable so is it with the schemes of truths He therefore that will begin at these numerous small branches will dote rather than know or learn As in the former instances First When I see with my eyes the effects of Power Wisdome and Goodness in all the visible works of God I am sure that it is perfect Power Wisdome and Goodness which is the cause of this I am certain that nothing can give that which formaliter or eminenter it hath not to give nor can the effect exceed the totall cause I am certain that he from whom all Creatures Power Wisdome and Goodness doth proceed must needs himself be more Great and Wise and Good than all the world of Creatures set together which he hath made To this fundamental certainty therefore I must hold if I will not dote whatever little Objections or pratlings may be used against it Secondly Eternity is a thing incomprehensible which quite swalloweth up my understanding and many little things be said against it But I am certain that nothing can make nothing And if ever there had been nothing there never would have been any thing And to this certainty I will hold Thirdly A holy life hath a great many of cavilling Objections raised against it by corrupted nature And shall I there begin to make my trial of it No I am first sure that a Rational free Agent and Subject of God is bound to obey him and that the Greatest Good should be Greatliest loved and that we are totally our Creators own and should be totally devoted to him I am sure I cannot love the infinite Good too much nor be too Good nor do too much Good to others in the world nor make too sure of my own felicity nor too much seek my ultimate end And shall not this assurance hold me fast against all the snarlings and pratlings of the doating drunken world So here I have in the Treatise opened those grounds on which we may be certain of the necessity of this holiness of the life to come and of the truth of the Christian Faith and hopes And because God in mercy hath not put off the world with the skeleton of a bare Creed but also given them the compleat body of sacred Scriptures to be a full perpetual Record of this truth shall I turn his mercy to a snare and sin and question all even the Articles of the Faith because in the Scriptures there are some things accidental to Religion and some things hard to be understood which the ignorant and unskilfull wrest to their destruction This is but to be Devils to our selves and foolish enemies of our own peace and comfort As Cicero speaks against them that pleaded for the souls mortality as if it were a desireable thing You have nothing else that suiteth the Nature and Interest of a man and agreeth with the Nature and Interest of God to set against the Christian Religion in Competition If you would have no Religion you would have no Hopes no Safety no Business or Comfort but Bea●●ial in this world and you would be no Men. If you would have nothing but Nature and the Holiness which Nature clearly calleth for you would have Health in an unhealed Body and Health without the Physician and his Means The Mediator is the way to the Father and if you would Love God and be happy in his Love and have the Pardon of your Sins you have little reason to reject him that cometh to Procure Reveal and Communicate that Love and Pardon which must win your hearts to the Love of God And if you would not die in desperation but have the hopes and foresight of a better life you have little Reason to quarrel with a Messenger from Heaven which bringeth Life and Immortality to light As bad as Christians are if personal quarrels and malignity blind you not and if you will not take the enemies and persecutors of Christianity for Christians meerly because they assume the name you may easily see that serious Christians who live according to their profession are persons of another kind of excellency than all the unbelieving world I know that from some self-conceited ignorant well meaning persons I must look to be reviled and called a betrayer of Christianity because I plead not for it in their way and give you any other answer to your objections than That when God giveth you the spirit you shall know that the Scripture hath no contradictions and that Christianity is the true Religion Till then you cannot know it nor must I give you Reasons for it But I do my work and let who will wrangle and revile How far the sayings of some are true or false that the Scripture is the onely means of faith or saving knowledge of God that it is Principium indemonstrabile as first principles of knowledg are in nature that as others say It hath evidence of credibility but not evidence of certainty as if evidence of Divine credibility or or faith were not evidence of certainty that faith hath not evidence but evidence evacuateth faith or the merits of it with such like a man of understanding may gather from what is said And I must not be so tedious as particularly here to resolve them having done it in Preface to the Second part of the Saints Rest Edit 2. c. long ago And though I have written nothing here which some men cannot make an ill use of and some men will not turn to matter of cavil and reproach I will not therefore leave it out whilst I expect that the Cood which Truth is fitted to is greater than the evil which by accident and abuse will follow it And because you seem Confident and think me bound to answer you and consequently all others not knowing how many hundreds may trouble me in the like kind I send you this in print that other mens mistakes and infidelity also may have the same remedies But I shall conceal your name and dwelling lest the shame of your sin should hinder your patient application of the remedy save onely by telling you that it is long ago since I read a noble Learned Lord who in a Latine Book De Veritate Contra Veritatem said much against the certainty of faith But it was all but learned froth and vanity I Rest A Servant of Christ and desirer of your faith and salvation R. Baxter Dec. 28. 16●1 THE SECOND PART OF THIS APPENDIX BEING Some ANIMADVERSIONS On the foresaid Treatise
all which and much more it appeareth that the Apostles though then in a state of Justification had a very general and defective knowledge of the Office of Christ and that though his Prophetical Office was ordinarily believed Joh. 4. The Samaritane woman could say when the Messiah cometh he will tell us all things and a temporal Kingdom expected yet his spiritual Kingdom and especially his Priestly office by his sacrifice death resurrection heavenly intercession for all the old Types and Sacrifices was little understood by the Disciples Yea he sometimes sorbad them and others to tell men that he was the Christ because the great evidences of his Resurrection Ascension and Spirit by which it was to be evinced were yet to come And we believe not that all that were saved before had more knowledge than the Apostles so that though all the faithful Jews believed in the promised seed even the Messiah as one that was to be sent to be their Deliverer and Saviour yet it was by a saith that was very general and far from that distinctness which after the Resurrection of Christ was required of all to whom the Gospel was promuglate which I have said the more of to you lest you think that we hold what we do not and so take occasion to erre by supposing us to err Clemens Alexandrinus Justin Martyr Arnobius Lactantius and other old Christians do go yet further then yet I have conceded to you And our very learned Dr. Twisse doth argue that God could have saved the world without a Redeemer if he had pleased because he saved the faithful under the old Testament without any existent Mediator except God himself or any existent sacrifice or merit or intercssion of him and because he saveth Infants without faith But for the first I take it to be at best too great temerity or audacity to dispute whether God could have done things better or otherwise which he has done so well of which I have said more in my Premonition before my Treatise called the unreasonableness of Infidelity Though I know that Wallaeus and many other learned Protestants say the same And as for Infants they are not saved without the Sacrifice and grace of the Redeemer though they know him not nor are they in the Covenant without the faith of their Parents or Owners which is as their own And if the Spirit of the Prorphets be called the Spirt of Chrict 1 Pet. 1. 11. And the reproach of Moses was the reproach of Christ Heb. 11. 26. We may much more conclude of the ordinary Believers before his coming that Christs Interest and his Spirits operations and help extended much further than mens understanding of him his undertaking and his future work No doubt but the eternal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that had undertaken mans Redemption and thereupon was our Lord Redeemer gave even to Socrates Plato Cicero Seneca Antonine Epistotus Plutarch c. What light and mercy they had though they understood not well from whom or upon what grounds they had them Ninethly And also we hold that the Jews were not the whole of Gods Kingdome or Church of Redeemed ones in the world as I have fully proved elsewhere But that as the Govenant was made with all mankind so amongst them God-had other Servants besides the Jews Though it was they that had the extraordinary benediction of being his peculiar sacred People Tenthly And we hold that as the Jews had by Promises Prophesies and Types more means to know God and the Messiah to come than other Nations so they were answerably obliged to more knowledge and faith than other Nations were that had not nor could have their means If then all the world be under the first Covenant of Grace and if you confess this to proceed from the wisdome and goodness of God and that men are bound so to believe and if Christ since his Incarnation hath diminished none of the mercies of God to the world but rather greatly increased them and so where the Gospel is not preached nor cannot be had they that refuse it not are in no worse case than they were before how can you say that they are Remediless if Christ be the ransome and remedy We know that all men partake of a great deal of mercy from God after the notorious demerit of their sin We know that this mercy telleth them aloud that God dealeth not with them according to the first Law of Innocency They see he pardoneth them they feel that he pardoneth them in part that is that he useth them not as they deserve We know that all this mercy obligeth them to hope that he will yet be further merciful and to repentance obedience thankfulness and love We know that the Heathen are no left as the Divels without remedy but all the Nations are under Divine obligations to use certain means which have a tendency to their recovery And we know that God biddeth no man to use his means in vain Fourthly Let us therefore first debate this Case with any unbeliever that hath your objections Whether you have any fault to find with the Christian Doctrine of the way of mans salvation for the first 4000 years before the Incarnation of our Lord If you have First Is it with the Author Secondly Or with the terms and conditions of life First The Author then was none but God The eternal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wisdome and word did interpose to prevent the execution of strict Justice by resolving to glorifie Love and Mercy Do you deny the being of Gods eternal wisdome or word Do you deny him to be God himself Or a Divine subsistence dream that it is but some Accident in God No your fair description of God p. 210. dischargeth you from the imputation of so gross an error You will say that the Divine power and goodness interposed as well as the Divine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wisdome and word True Opera Trinitatis ad extra sunt in divisa but so that each hath an eminency in his own work though not as separated or a solitary principle or cause The Father and Divine Vital Active Power was eminently glorified in the Creation The Son and Divine wisdome is eminently glorified in the making of the Remedying Medicine And the Divine Love and Spirit is eminently glorified in the operation of it to the Health and Salvation of the Soul The son and the wisdome or word doth not finish all the work himself but with the Father and Divine power sendeth the holy Spirit and communicateth to man the Love of God And all together will be glorified in our glorification Secondly And if it be the terms of life that do offend you First It is either the terms of satisfying the Justice of God Secondly Or the terms of conveying the benefits to man First For the first there is nothing in it to give offence For we dream not of any extrinsecal agent or action much less that which
it was before his incarnation They that neither have nor could have the Covenant of Grace in the last edition are under it as they were before in the first edition further than as their after sins have deprived them of any of its benefits Therefore the coming of Christ hath not narrowed the Church nor repealed or diminished any grace that before was given but added much more Secondly When there was more Grace to be given it was needful that the Condition should be suited to it Would you rather be without the Graces and benefits than be obliged to Believe would you be cured by one that you would not believe nor take for your Physician would you be taught by one that you will not believe or take for your Teacher would you be ruled by one that you will not believe is your Ruler IInd I have proved to you that God bideth no man believe either without a meet object or meet evidence of the credibility yea the certain verity of that which he is commanded to believe And the belief required of us is but a means to our love of God and our belief of the everlasting glory and consequently is needful to our further duty to our perfection and our felicity Do you not think your self that the greatest demonstrations of the Divine Love are fittest to breed Love in us to God And is not this wonderful work of mans Redemption a wonderful demonstration of Gods Love If you say that it is incredible because wonderful and incomprehensible I answer you It is the more credible because so wonderful I cannot believe that any thing is a work of God especially one of his great transcendent works which mortal man can comprehend The work of the Father and of Omnipotency in Creation is wonderfully will you therefore say that there is no world The work of the Holy Ghost in Regeneration is wonderful c. especially in our perfection in Glory And will you say therefore that there is no Sanctification or Glorification so the work of the Son and Divine wisdome and word incarnate is wonderful And it is the fitter to be thought a work of God And would you not say your self that if God should send an Angel from Heaven to tell you his will and tell you what is good and evil and to tell you the certainty of the life to come and the Joyes thereof would it not be a singular help to your Belief of all these things revealed if he did but give you sufficient proof that he is sent of God What perversness is it then to quarrel with Gods greatest mercy as incredible meerly because it is wonderful and great and therefore fit for God to give Thefore observe here the error of those men that overlook the Benefit and taking all Duty for a Burden dispute against the necessity of the Duty whereas all our Duty is our Benefit like the duty of feasting rejoycing receiving money or honour when given us And the true state of our Question should be Whether all they that by the Gospel have the offer of a Saviour and Salvation and all those treasures of mercy which are brought to mankind by Christ above what they had before his incarnation are bound to believe that procurement and offer and to accept so great a gift When the same men that question this can be willing to accept of wealth and honours without disputing whether they may not live without them and will say Quis insimentis inops oblatum respuit aurum And he that can make a sorry shift with a Candle will not dispute whether it be his duty to open his Windows let in the light of the Sun It is Riches of Mercy which all they dispute against who think they speak against the necessity of some difficult duty Thirdly And remember again that your self confess an Inequality of Gods Benefits and that he is not bound to give them to all alike though there were no inequality of demerit in the Receivers If then he give more to the Church by Christ Incarnate then he did before his Incarnation or more than he giveth to the world that never hear the Gospel their Eye should not be evil because he is good much less ours who receive the benefit Fourthly And I am glad that all that you require of God for All the world is but that their Salvation or Damnation may be brought to their own free choice and not their perdition be a thing unavoidable by Gods meer will without their culpable mischoosing And all this we maintain as well as you And you can never prove that the Christian Religion doth deny it Nay tell me if you can what mercy your doctrine giveth to all the world which ours giveth them not Do you say that they are not under the meer Law of Innocency made with Adam but under the Law of grace which after was given him so do we But you say that this Law of Grace is the Law of Nature Let not names abuse us It is not the Law of Innocent Nature But it is so fitted to mans Lapsed State and doth also so fitly express the Gracious Nature of God and also hath such evidences in Gods merciful providence and dealing with the sinful world that in all these respects if you call it the Law of Lapsed and reprieved nature under its reparation we will not contend about the name But you say that all men may be saved if they reject not their salvation so say we that all should be judged according to that means and Law that is given them their Consciences accusing or excusing them in the day when Christ shall judge the world as the Gospel telleth us And none perish now for the meer sin of Adam nor meerly for want of the Innocency required by the first Law but for the refusing and abusing some mercy purchased by Christ which had an apt tendency to their Repentance and Recovery But you lay the main stress on this that All men may be saved by true saith in God and true Repentance without believing in a Crucified Christ And we say that no man in the world shall perish that hath true faith in God and true Repentance For all such do Love God as God and do devote themselves to his glory to obedience and Love and do hate sin as sin and so are holy And God cannot cast that Soul into Hell that loveth him and beareth his Image Holiness hath so much of God and Heaven in it that this would be to cast Heaven and Gods Image into Hell and to jumble Heaven and Hell together Do we not then grant you as much as you can reasonably desire Tell us but what Heathens or Mahometans are Holy truly penitent for all sin and devoted to God in obedience and love and we will grant you that they shall all be saved But you were ware that we would tell you that this Repentance and holiness is not a thing which sinful