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mercy_n	david_n	great_a	lord_n	5,127	5	3.9179	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A51572	The Messias of the Christians and the Jewes held forth in a discourse between a Christian, and a Iew obstinately adhering to his strange opinions, & the forced interpretations of scripture, wherein Christ the true savior of the whole world is described from the prophets and likewise that false and counterfeited Messias of the Jewes, who in vaine is expected by that nation to this very day, is discovered / written first in Hebrew, but now rendered into English by Paul Isaiah, a Jew born, but now a converted and baptized Christian.	Münster, Sebastian, 1489-1552.; Eliazar Bar-Isajah.	1655 (1655)	Wing M3039A; ESTC R42183	58,523	257

THE MESSIAS OF THE Christians and the Iewes Held forth in a Discourse between a Christian and a Iew obstinately adhering to his strange opinions the forced interpretations of Scripture Wherein Christ the true Savior of the whole world is described from the Prophets and likewise that false and counterfeited Messias of the Jewes who in vaine is expected by that Nation to this very day is discovered Written first in Hebréw but now rendered into English by PAUL ISAIAH a Jew born but now a converted and baptized Christian Psal. 78.37 For their heart was not right with him neither were they stedfast in his Covenant Psal. 119.80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes that I be not ashamed London Printed by William Hunt 1655. To the Reverend and Learned Mr Richard Parr Minister of the Gospell at Camberwell Paul Isaiah a converted Jew wisheth all happinesse of body and soule both in this life and the next through Christ Jesus our Lord Reverend Sir THE many favours which I have received from you as to the refreshing of body with the outward things of this life and to the comforting of my soul with your most Christian instructions and spirituall consolations have emboldened me thus to returne you my thanks and to make publick Testimony unto the world how much I am obliged to you and I hope I shall not doe injury to your goodnesse by openly publishing my gratitude as also by craving your further countenance towards me and my poor endeavours that this discourse between a Christian and a Jew written by the greatly learned Sebastian Munster may goe abroad under your name The discourse was first written by him in the Hebrew Tongue wch is a language wherein I know you had rather read it then in my Englsh. But since my dear and blessed Savior has been gratiously pleased to cal me into his Vineyard I have resolved by his grace not to be idle in it but shall most gladly set my selfe to any worke whereby I may advantage the Christian cause though it bee but by knocking a pinne into the Building or by bringing a little Goats haire to furnish the Ark They that could not offer a Lamb were accepted if they brought only a Pigeon And I read in the Holy Gospell where Christ commended the widow that gave into the Treasury but two Mites And as for my selfe I hope I shal not be rejected though my present worke bee onely a Translation wherein yet I would be very gladly emploied might I be so happy as to be acquainted by your learned selfe or some others with what books are written in Hebrew which would bee most usefull in the Christian Church by being translated into English For as in former times the Gibeonites lived among my Countrie men the Jewes as hewers of wood and drawers of water so I that am a Jew by birth though now by God's grace a Christian doe desire to live and be serviceable to the Christian Church though it bee by performing the meanest offices since King David himself thought it would no way disparage him to be a dore-keeper in God's house The Lord of his great mercie preserve the whole Church and add dailie unto it even from among my native Countrie men the Jewes such as shall bee saved which is the dailie praier of him who Honours you and begs your favourable interpretation of this his presumption Reverend Sir Your most bounden poor Servant in Christ Jesus PAUL ISAIAH To the Christian Reader Christian Reader And blessed bee the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ who hath made that consanguinity between us through the bloud of his Sonne that I can now say My deare Christian brother AFter that it had pleased God who separated mee from my mothers womb and called me by his grace to reveale his Sonne in me that I might obey that Gospell which once I disobeyed and that I began an openly to make profession of the Christian faith I met with continuall opposition from those of my Countrymen who have yet their minds blinded and the vaile remaining upon their hearts untaken away having experimentally found the words of our Saviour true If any man will come after me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse and follow mee St Mat. 16.24 While I lived among my Countrymen the Iewes and did communicate with them in the Iewish Religion it was my great sinne and unhappinesse as it was likewise theirs to be eager against the Truth of the Gospell And though wee daily read the Prophets in the reading whereof I have learned this excellent Lesson since I became a Christian viz. That we do then understand the Prophets aright when we find Christ in them But when I read them formerly in the Synagogues there was such a thick mist before our eies and our fore-fathers wooll had so stopt our eares that wee would neither see nor heare any thing concerning Christ much lesse would wee endure to heare that any of the holy Prophets had prophecied against us as such who rejected the true Messias in him our salvation So that we might be truly compared to a blind man holding a looking Glasse before him wherein though the blinde man cannot see his owne face yet the standers by can easily discerne whose face it is which is represented in the glasse And here I could wish it were no more with my Country men than a mist before their eies and wooll in their eares but there is likewise a stone a flint stone in their hearts which if the Christian Magistrates among whom they live did not keep a strict watch over them would soon be in their hands to stone Christ to death were he againe in their reach and likewise to stone all such who professe his name and expect salvation in his blood And though perhaps there may not be now in England any great numbers of professed Iewes some to my owne knowledge there are who have their synagogues and there exercise Iudaisme Yet they who live here as often as they are bound to use their office of Prayer which is twice a day so often are they bound to blaspheme Christ and to curse him and all true Christians which beleeve in him To make evident proof whereof I have now by mee the very forms of Prayer in Hebrew which are injoined them to make use of And which I should have translated into English but that I suppose such horrid blasphemies will doe best being concealed in a language that is here knowne only to the Learned then if they should bee made common by being translated for every vulgar eye Meane while I have here adventured to bee a Translator of a safer worke and upon better Termes It is a discourse as thou seest between a Iew and a Christian written at first in Hebrew by a greatly learned Author the Learned Munster who was himselfe a Translator but of the best worke in the world the Holy Bible In this discourse thou wilt meet with

virtue as it is said Behold I create new heavens and a new earth and the former shall not be remembred Christian Shall men dye in that Land or shall they live for ever Iew They shall not die by the sword because war shall not be there neither shall there be a naturall death exept after many yeares when a man shall be full of daies but when he shall dye they shall not weep over him as it is written the voice of weeping and mourning shall no more bee heard in Ierusalem Also in that time they shall not say of an old man that hee hath accomplisht his daies untill hee come to the three hundreth or five hundreth yeare and above such as were in the first ages in the beginning of the world But these daies which now in the world are counted for old age shall then bee the daies of youth and men shall bee accounted then as growing children as it is written they shall be fruitfull in old age they shall be fat and flourishing in the contrary manner of old men wherefore it is written elsewhere a child of a hundred years old shall die that is if any man dy in the hundreth year which shall be because of his sin they shall say of him that a child is dead and he expounds it after this manner A child of an hundred yeares who shall sin shall be accused as if he should say the curse of God shall bee upon him Then they shal not build and another inhabit as now it is neither shall they plant and another eat but according to the daies of trees shall the daies of my people be that is in the elect because they onely shall have the longest lives and that not without a miracle but not other people whereupon Ionathan hath interpreted that place thus They shall live as the dayes of trees But our Rabbies say that a living tree doth endure five hundred years Some also say there shall be some change in the nature of corne in the time of the Redeemer that it shall as vines bee preserved in strength and there shal not be need every yeare to sow new corn but it shall be sown onely once as the vine is once planted and after the corne shall bee gathered in the stalks shall remaine flourishing to the next yeare Christian In what place of Scripture did your Rabbies find that Iew In Hosea they shall preserve their corne and it shall flourish as a vine Also in that time if they aske of the blessed God raine he shall give it them and hee will give every man herbes in his field according to his desire Moreover our Masters say that at that time when the Israelites shall do the will of God he wil also do their will so that if any one alone shall have need of raine he will give raine to him alone or if any one shall want raine for one herbe in his field or garden he will give raine to that herbe alone And this is that which is said aske raine of the Lord and hee will give thee plentifull raine for every herb in the field Christian Because you have fallen upon Zachary tell me how you understand those words which are written in it shall the whole earth be turned as into a plaine Iew I will tell you behold all the land about Ierusalem which now is mountainous as it is in the Psalmes shall then be plain like the plainnesse of a champion field and it shall be exalted and be higher than all the land although now it be higher than all the land of Israel by reason of the mountaines which are about it because of which its height cannot be seene But at that time when all the land round about it shall bee made plaine its height shall be seen more than all the Land Wherefore it is said in the prophecy of Isaiah the mountain of the Lord shall be established upon the top of the mountaines and shall be lifted above the hils and many fields which now are nigh Ierusalem shall then be within the wals of the City and that City being built shall never afterwards be destroied as it is written behold the daies come saith the Lord and the City of the Lord shall be built from the tower of Hananeel to the gate of the corner c. it shall not be destroied nor pluckt downe for ever It is said also in the Psalm if the Lord build not the house they labour in vaine who build it But this hee saith of the sanctuary and City of Ierusalem Behold from that day wherein the house of the Lord was wasted and the Israelites led into captivity and the City destroied Ierusalem was now againe rebuilt and now againe destroi'd because it was in the power of the Idumeans and in the power of the Ismaelites and every year war was raised for it they build it and these destroy it againe because it is not the will of the Lord that the Gentiles should keep it built and therefore they labour in vaine who build it and in vaine doe they rise in the morning who keepe it First the Idumeans did subdue Ierusalem afterwards when they were quiet the Ismalites came and made a great war with the christians and tooke the City out of their hands and there was a continuall war between them and that discord paines and labour to possesse the City shall endure untill the Redeemer and King Messias shall come to whom the Lord God shal deliver Ierusalem without all trouble Christian Shall the City and the Temple be then built as Ezechiel saw them in the spirit of Prophecy Iew Yes for he saith thus in the 25 yeare of our captivity in the beginning of the year in the tenth moneth in that day the Lord brought me to the land of Israel and set me upon an exceeding high mountaine upon which there was as it were the building of the City from the south because in the day of mercy God will pardon the iniquity of Israel and will remember their sin no more and the Temple shall be built in the mountaine and the City Ierusalem shall be next to it on the south there the Lord shews Ezekiel the building of the future Temple that the hope of the Israelites might not faile but they might know they should return into their own land and should dwell in it securely and the building of the Temple shall bee much greater then it was at the beginning though it shall not differ in forme and order Christian Ezekiel had this vision in the babylonish captivity before the second house was built therefore it cannot be understood of the building of a third Temple Againe I aske of you at what time of the year shall the Israelites goe into their owne land after your Messias shall come Iew I have told you already namely in the day of propitiation for then God shall pardon

for for ever sometimes for a long time and sometimes for a short time as it is in that place thy name shall no more be called Iacob but Israel shall be thy name and yet a little after in the same place he is thrice called Iacob So in the book of Samuell it is said the Philistines came no more into the bounds of Israel who neverthelesse came into the land of Israel after the death of Samuell So it is said here there shall be war no more that is there shall not be war at that time when the Messias shall come and shal be born as it was in the time of Augustus the Emperour when our Christ was born in great peace that men then might have broke and turned their swords into plow-shares and their spears into pruning hooks if they would for that manner of speaking is used by the Prophets Iew The fourth is also expressed by the Prophets That the wolfe and the lamb shall feed together and the lyon shall eat straw like the oxe and the suckling child shall play upon the whole of the aspe but these creatures are now hurtfull from the daies of old Christian I will answer you presently concerning this prophecy Iew The fifth is this the land of Sodome shall bee rebuilt as it was from the beginning seeing it is thus written And I will bring back the captivity of Edom and his villages For from the beginning the waters of Sodom were sweet and watering the Land as it is written And Lot lifted up his eies and saw all the plaine of Iordan which was watered every where But now to this day those waters are dryed up and salt Behold all these consolations we yet expect shal be God grant that they may come speedily in our daies Amen Selah Christian We have far digrest from our first discourse when we began to speak of the war of Gog and Magog Now therefore tell me what shall bee after that war Iew In those daies all men shall bee busied in wisedome to know the Lord as it is written The earth shall bee filled with the knowledge of the Lord Then that which Ieremie saith shall be fulfilled A voice of joy and a voice of gladnesse shall be and all shall say confesse to the Lord of Hosts because the Lord is good for his mercy endureth for ever and they shall bring an oblation for thanksgiving into the house of the Lord He doth not say they shall bring an oblation for sinne and for iniquity because in that time wicked men and sinners shall not bee among them but all shal know the Lord Hence it is that our Rabbies have said all oblations shall be made void in the last times except the oblation of thanksgiving Moreover in those daies they shall say no more the fathers have eaten sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge because then sinners shall bee cut off neither those that sin at that time shall commit any great sin then the people shall know that GOD is King over all neither is there another besides him and they shall come to Ierusalem to learn the judgements of God and his lawes even as he saith come and let us goe up to the mount of the Lord to the house of the God of Iacob and he will teach us his waies and we will walke in his paths for the Law shall goe forth from Zion and the word of the Lord from Ierusalem He shall judge among the Nations and shall rebuke many people and they shall beat their swords into plow-shares and their speares into pruning hooks The Prophet speaks here of the Messias for if war shall be raised among the Gentiles or questions arise they shall come to judgement before the King Messias who shall be Lord of all the people and hee shall reprove them and shall say to him who shall be found guilty amend those faults which thou hast done against him who hath called thee to judgement And for this cause there shall not be war against people and people because the King Messias shall pacifie them neither shall they need instruments of warre but shall break them to make of them instruments of husbandry In that day the Lord shall bee exalted alone who shall cast out Idols universally And although Idols have ceased already among some people yet some are found in the East who worship Idols likewise they are truly counted among worshippers of Idols who bend their knees and make images But in the daies of the Messias Idols shall be wholly rooted out Christian At this day and from many yeares there are not neither have been idols in the world as I said above but all Nations worship one God neither do we Christians adore and worship images as you Iewes think neither doe we beleeve that any power is in images that they can bring us any help but some among us who professe themselves to bee Christians doe adore and worship our Christ before images as your fathers also formerly in the first house did adore and worship God before the Arke of the Sanctuary But let us leave these things or reserve them to another time for I desire to heare something from you concerning beasts which shall be in the time of your Messias Iew Concerning beasts you have it thus written The wolfe shall dwell with the lamb and the leopard shall lie down with the kid and the calfe and the young lion and the fatling together and a little child shall lead them and the cow and the beare shall feed their young ones shall lie downe together and the lyon shall eat straw like the oxe and the sucking child shall play on the hole of the aspes and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice den They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountaine for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea Here are some sayings that in the daies of the Messias the natures of living creatures and beasts shall be changed and they shall be as they were at the beginning of the creation and as in the Arke of Noah For if in the beginning of the creation a lyon had devoured a sheep one kinde of the creation had perished Christian What therefore did the lyon and other devouring creatures eat then who now eat flesh Iew I say if the lyon had eat the flesh of any beast the world had been deprived of that creature forsomuch as all creatures first were created in each sex male and female and no more neither could the devouring creatures sustain hunger until cattel which might be devoured had brought forth other individuals for the preservation of their kind therefore it was necessary that in the meane while they should eat the grass of the field untill devourable cattell were bred and brought forth then and after that their nature began

number 1335 be accomplisht Iew Some say that number is extended to the year of the world 6118 which is the 2367 year of Christ For first they counted 1290 daies to that time when they laid down the abomination of desolation after the destruction of the temple according to the words of Daniel and afterwards they began to number 1335 daies But they who went before us did not receive this supputation but every man laboured to finde out some account which might agree with their daies And after this manner thou shalt finde with our Rabbies of good memory many divers bounds which are al past for they were carefull to finde out some neere bound lest the common people should despaire because redemption was suspended Christian And so your Rabbies doe alway seduce you saying behold at this time the Messias shall come and when that that is past again they say at that time he shall come How will yee believe these lying words Consider you have no hope and salvation is deferred from you and God is departed from you and you have no consolation not a prophet nor vision therefore be converted acknowledge your Saviour and our Saviour our Lord Christ Iew Neither have wee had from the beginning of the second Temple a Prophet or vision but in those daies when the Messias shall begin to grow Then prophecies and visions shall be multiplied But at this time all vision and prophecie is sealed for the end of the vision of the Prophets hath respect wholly to the growing of the Messias Kingdome When hee shall come we shall have great consolations so that al the daies of our captivity shall bee counted as a little moment as it is written I have left thee a little moment and in great mercies I wil gather thee Christian Vision and prophecy is shut up from your eies but not from our eies for we are all taught of God and the mysteries of the Kingdome of God are revealed to us and if you also will believe in our Lord Christ you may enter into the Kingdome of God Iew Wee cannot beleeve in your Christ because hee was a Magician and all his miracles were wrought by the Magick Art and therefore he was judged to death as the Lord God taught us and because hee brake the Sabbath and said hee was a God therefore the Iewes slew him Christian Hold your peace knave and doe not so reproach our Saviour but if you will at another time I will come to you that wee may speake more of this matter Who knows peradventure thou wilt acknowledge the truth and receive our Gospell Iew I am content that according to your pleasure you come to me but speak nothing to me of your bad tidings Christian Take heed to your selfe that you say not bad tidings but good tidings for it is a manifestation of the goodness of God which came to us by Christ the Redeemer of the world But why doe you so refuse to heare the Gospell and why doe you shun the light and will set in darknesse Is it not written concerning the light of the Gospell the people which did walke in darkenesse saw a great light and to them which dwell in the shadow of death light hath shined Iew This is the reason why I will not heare because Iesus your Messias was an evill man and his speeches were fained and the glorious God saw that hee would seduce the world and would set himselfe forth for God and for that God hath said that men should die but Iesus ought to bee hanged upon the Crosse that so all that should come into the world might see that hee was not God Moreover none of the Prophets hath prophecied frō that time wherin Christ being crucified was hang'd up none of Israel neither any of the Nations because a lying spirit did so much prevail in the world that there was no place for the spirit of prophecie But also we suffer al these tribulations and this very long captivity because that wicked man was borne of us and in our land who made himselfe God and seduced the whole world Christian All those evils which you Iewes suffer came not upon you because of our Christ because he said that he was God and the son of God but rather for this because your fathers slew him and crucified him a holy man and just the Saviour of the world who did no evill neither was deceit found in his mouth Behold this holy man your fathers slew and numbered him with the wicked and ye all allow this fact to this very day and therefore ye shall never find grace in the eies of God unlesse ye return from that evill way and acknowledge our Lord Iesus Christ whom ye in contempt do call Ieschim Vnless you beleeve in him you shall all perish and shall goe downe to hell Behold I have foretold it you shall not finde other salvation in heaven and in earth and for this cause seeke the Lord while he may be found call upon him while he is neere Forsake your unbelieving heart and returne to the Lord and he will have mercy on you and to our God for hee will abundantly pardon you Be not like your fathers who hardned their faces more than a rocke and would not returne to the Lord but dealt wickedly against the Lord the God of their fathers who delivered them to be spoiled as you see it at this day I beseech you harden not your necks as you have done hitherto but give your hands to the Lord and acknowledge that Christ is sent for the salvation of all men who shall beleeve in him the Lord our God is gratious and mercifull who will not turne away his face from you if yee returne to him Iew You shal never perswade me to receive your faith and believe in your Christ for that which you beleeve no reason can comprehend neither any man understand For how shal I beleeve that the Creator of heaven and earth and all things that are in them shut himselfe up in the wombe of a Iewish Virgin grew nine moneths and was borne a child and afterward increased in stature and was delivered into the hands of his enemies who condemned him with the judgement of death slew him on the Crosse and yee afterward say and beleeve that he lived again and returned to his former state neither the mind of a Iew neither can any man comprehend this therefore you spend your words in vaine seeing that these things have no likelihood of truth Christian Knowest thou not that nothing is unpossible to God verily all those things which you have now mentioned are in the Prophets but wrapt in the covering of words for thus saith the Prophet Isaias Behold a virgin shall conceive and beare a son and shall call his name Immanuel And in another place hee saith Hee was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquities the chastisement of our peace was