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A07693 The co[n]futacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chau[n]cellour of Englonde; Confutacyon of Tyndales answere. Part 1 More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535.; Tyndale, William, d. 1536. Answere unto Sir Thomas Mores dialoge. 1532 (1532) STC 18079; ESTC S114986 309,752 370

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For as well be those thynges to be byleued as these And therfore let vs esteme thobseruaūces of the chyrce worthy to be byleued so that yf any thynge be delyuered to vs by the chyrch neuer aske farther questyon Saynte Hierome interp●etynge the .xi. chapyter of the fyrste epystle to the Corynthyes sayth in this wyse Saynt Poule preuented them to th entent none of them shold say where is this wryten nor shold wyth any other argumētes stryue agaynste this reason And therfore he sayde we haue no suche custome to stryue and contende neyther we nor yet the chirche of god whych is rather geuē to myldenesse then to contencyon and stryfe Theophilactus expowneth the same place lykewyse and sayth For as myche as the Corinthyans wolde perchaunce collour this mater by certayne subtyltyes and wente about yt by syllogysmys sophistycacyons alledgynge that these thynges were neyther good nor bad but of theyr nature indyfferent therfore saynt Poule sayde we haue no such custome other to be cōtencyouse or a man to let his here grow in length or a woman to go bare hed neither haue we sayd saynt Poule this custome nor the chirche of god that ys nor the other crysten people neyther And therfore by suche frowarde argumētes ye seme to resyste and withstande not onely me but also the chyrche yt selfe These wordes therfore of saynte Poule maye make the herers ashamed to do any thynge contrarye to the custome receyued by the chyrche Saynte Leo also an holyman and a cunnynge in a sermon that he maketh in the faste at whytesontyde sayeth in thys wyse There is no doute my welbeloued brethern but that euery crysten obseruaunce is of Crystes techynge and what so euer is receyued of the chyrche into a custome of deuocyon commeth of thapostles tradycyon and of the doctryne of the holy goost which holy spiryte euen now also doth rule all faythfull hertes wyth his own instruccyon to make them kepe them obedyently and vnderstande them wysely Saynte Austayne in the boke of the baptysme of yonge chyldren agaynste the Pelagians wry●eth in thys wyse Chyldren whiche be baptysed be taken in the nomber of faythfull peple and that onely by an olde cononyke sure grounded custome of the chyrche And in a nother place agayne Now sayth he we haue shewed you afore that the lyttell chyld beleueth that he is accoūted amonxst men y● be baptysed Thys holdeth the authoryte of our mother holy chirch and this holdeth the rule of the sure groūded fayth who so runneth agaynste this fortresse this inexpugnable wall shall all to frush hym selfe Cassianus in the .xi. collacyon the .xii. chapiter Thauthoryte of the olde fathers and the custome of our elders contynued by the space of so many yeres vnto this day although the cause of them be not perceyued by vs muste we fyrmely byleue And that custome must we with perpetuall obseruaūce reuerently fulfyll in such wyse as yt was delyuered of olde Saynte Austayne in the .cxviii. pystle to Ianuary sayeth thus Those thynges whych are not wryten and yet we by tradycyon obserue them such I meane as are thorow Crystendome kepte we may well vnderstande that they be kept as thynges ordeyned and commaunded vnto vs eyther by the apostles them selfe or ellys by generall counsayles the authoryte wherof is in the chyrch moste necessary As for ensample that the passyon of Cryste and his resurreccion and hys ascensyon into heuē and the comynge of the holy goost from heuen are yerely celebrate with a solemne feaste and what someuer thyng we fynde that is obserued amonge all people where the chyrche of Cryste ys sprede Many thynges be not founde in the wrytynges of the apostles nor in the counsayles of those that cam after them whyche yet bycause they be kepte of all the hole chyrche we byleue them to haue hadde no nother bygynnynge but by the tradycyon and commendacyon of the apostles vnto vs by them selfe Saynt Austayne in the fourth boke of baptisme agaynst the Donatystes The thynge that the hole chyrche holdeth and is not instytute and ordeyned by counsayles and that not wytstandynge hath ben euer obserued we very well by leue that yt neuer byganne but by the authoryte of the apostles tradycyon Saynte Austayne in the fyfte boke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes sayth Many thynges are there whyche the vnyuersall chyrche holdeth and therfore be well byleued that the apostles haue commaunded them though they be not founde in wrytynge Saynte Austayne in the .xi. chapiter of the .ix. boke of his confessyons wrytynge of the departyng of that holy blessed woman his mother Monica sheweth that all be yt before tyme she had ben very studyous of the place where she wold be beryed longed specyally to be layed by her husbande yet at the tyme that she lay dyenge beynge then farre from the place where her husbande lay shewed vnto saynt Austayne then psent wyth her that she cared not in what chyrch they beryed her bodye but she prayed them very effectually to remember her in his masse whyche thynge I wryte the ye may se that the masse and prayenge for soules therin ys not so new a thynge as Tyndale wolde haue yt seme And in the nexte chapyter after saynte Austayne sayeth these wordes spoken vnto god Her body was caryed forth we folowed cam agayne wythoute teares And ouer y● in those prayers whych we made vnto the when the sacryfyce of our redempcion was offered for her the corps beyng set by the graue as the maner is there I wept not in those prayers neyther but all the day was I in a greuouse secrete sorowe And afterwarde in the laste chapyter of the same boke saynt Austayne prayeth for his mother vnto our Lord amōg many other wordes in thys wyse I good lorde that art my prayse and my lyfe the god of my hart settynge a syde for the whyle my mothers vertues and goodnesse for whych I ioyfully geue the thākes wyll now beseche the for her synnys Here me gracyously good lorde for that medycyne of out woundes whyche honge vppon the crosse and now syttynge at thy ryght hāde doth call vppon the for vs. I know good lorde that she dyd workes of mercy and that she hartely dyd frogyue the dettes vnto her dettours Forgyue thou good lorde her dettes to her suche also as she hath fallen in by so many yeres after the water of helthe Forgyue her good lorde forgyue her I beseche the and enter not wyth her into iudgement And afterwarde he sayth And I beleue good lorde that thou hast done all redy the thynge that I praye for For she when the daye approched of her departynge nothyng bethought her how she myghte haue her body costely couered or dressed wyth spyc●s nor longed for a sūptuouse sepulchre nor cared not to be beryed in her owne countrey These were not the thynges that she any thynge requyred vs but onely desyred vs to haue her in remembraunce at thyne auter to
and haue accursed Tyndale to yf all the myghte haue saued hys lyfe And so he gaue counsayle vnto one Iamys that was for heresye in pryson wyth hym For as Iamys hath synnys confessed Tewkesbery sayed vnto hym saue you your self and abiure But as for me bycause I haue abiured byfore there is no remedy wyth me buth deth By whych wordes yf he had not ben in dyspayre of lyfe it well appereth he wold wyth good wyll haue ones abiured and ones periured agayne And yet at hys examynacyon he denyed that euer he hadde holden any such opynyons as he was abiured for notwythstandyng that there were at hys axamynacyon some persons present of myche honestye and wourshyppe two that had ben present at hys abiuracyon byfore to whyche also hys owne hand was subscrybed And afterwarde beynge ferther examyned vppon the same some he denyed some he defended agayne Amonge other thynges he sayed that he vsed to praye to sayntes that he byleued them to be goddes frendes and that theyr prayours were profytable to vs and well done to praye to them wheruppon I sayd vnto hym my selfe that I was glad to se hym in that poynte yet amended and I shewed hym as the trouth was in dede that I amys helde the contrarye and that he hadde so greate a truste in Tewkesbery that I dowted not but when he sholde here that tewkesbery hadde reuoked that poynt he wolde reuoke it to As sone as Tewkesbery herd that he went from it agayne by and by that so farre that fynally he wolde not agre that before the day of dome there were eyther any saynt in heuen or soule in purgatory or in hell eyther Nor the ryght fayth in the sacrament of the aulter wolde he not confesse in no wyse For which thynges and dyuers other horryble heresy●s he was delyuered at laste vnto the secular handes and burned as there was neuer wretche I wene better worthy yet is there one thynge notable and well declarynge what good and cherytable mynde the mā dyed in For● after that he was delyuered vnto the secular handes neyther whyle he was in pryson nor at the tyme of hys deth wolde he by his wyll be aknowen of any of hys heresyes vnto any man that asked hym any questyon but couered and hyd them by all the meanes he coulde make labored to make euery man wene that he had neuer holden any such opynyon And by thys dealynge euery man maye se that he rought not so mych for his heresyes nor toke them not in his owne mynde for suche thynges as he so gretely forced whyther they went forwarde or bakwarde as he wolde fayne leue an opynyon amonge the people that hys iudges had borne hym wrong in hande condempned hym for such heresyes as he neuer helde And what conscyence he had that dyed in that mynde there is no good man dowteth Now was his examynacyō not secrete but folke inough therat bothe spyrytuall and temporall and of eyther parte ryght wourshypfull so that hys malycyouse mynde can in that poynte lytell take effecte And yet dyd the same Iamys also confesse afterwarde that Tewkesbery had redde vnto hym wyclyffes wykke● agaynst the blessed sacrament And ouer that was there founden about hym by the shyryffes offycers in the pryson a boke of heresye of hys owne hande wrytynge that is to wyt the boke of Marten Luther wherin he teacheth men vnder the name of crysten lybertye to rōne in to the deuyls bo●dage And in hys howse was founden Tyndales boke of obedyence whyche he well alowed and hys wykked boke also of the wykked mammona sayenge at hys examynacyon that all the heresyes therin were good and crysten fayth beynge in dede as full of false heresyes and as frantike as euer heretyke made any syth Cryst was borne And yet all thys notwythstandynge when he was in the shyryffes warde and at the tyme of hys deth he wolde not speke of hys heresyes any thynge nor say that he had helde and wolde holde thys poynt and that but handeled hym selfe as couertly as he coude to make the people wene that he hadde holden no maner opynyon at all nor neuer had I thynke yf Tyndales vngracyouse bokes had neuer come in hys hande For whych the pore wreche lyeth now in hell and cryeth out on hym and Tyndale yf he do not amēde in tyme he is lyke to fynde hym when they come togyther an hote fyrebronde burnynge at hys bakke that all the water in the worlde wyll neuer be able to quenche Another is there also whom hys vnhappy bokes haue brought vnto the fyre Tho. Bylney thas was before abiured whyche was the man of whom wythout name I spake so mych in my dyaloge whyche beyng conuycte by .xx. wytnesses and aboue dyd yet stykke styll in hys denyall sayd they were all sorsworen and had vtterly belyed hym But god whyche is very trouth and bryngeth at last alwaye the trouth to lyght wolde not suffer suche obstynate vntrouth at length to passe vnpunyshed but of hys endles mercy brought hys body to deth gaue hym yet the grace to turne and saue hys soule For so was it that after dyuerse sermons whyche he had after hys abiuracyon and agaynst the prohybycyon gyuen hym vppon hys abiuracyon made in sundry secrete corners and some also openly wherof the bysshoppe yet bycause he herde of none heresye therin had forborne to lay the dysobedyence to hys charge he went vnto Nor wych where he had enfected dyuers of the cytye before And beynge there secretely kepte by a certayne space had in the whyle resorte vnto an ancresse and there began secretely to sow hys cocle and brought vnto her dyuers of Tyndales bokes and was there taken in the doynge and the bokes after founden about a nother man that was conuayenge them thense and these thynges who so herde the hole processe cam in suche wyse to passe that he coulde nothynge dowbte but that it came to lyght by the very prouysyon of god when he came to examynacyon he waxed styffe and stoborne in hys opynyons But yet was god so good and gracyous lorde vnto hym that he was fynally so fully conuerted vnto Cryste and hys trew catholyke fayth that not onely at the fyre as well in wordes as wrytynge but also many dayes before he had reuoked abhorred and detested suche heresyes as he before had holden whych notwythstandyng there lakked not some that were very sory for it of whom some sayd and some wrote out of Norwych to Londō that he had not reuoked his heresyes at all but styll had abyden by them And suche as were not ashamed thus to saye and wryte beynge afterwarde examyned theruppon saw the cōtrary so playnely proued in theyr faces by suche as at hys execucyon stode by hym whyle he redde hys reuocacyō hym selfe that they had in conclusyon nothynge elles to say● but that he redde hys reuocacyon so softely that they coude not here it
How be it they confessed that he loked vppon a byll and redde it but they sayd that they coude not tell whyther it were the byll of hys reuocacyon or not And yet rehersed they them selfe certayne thynges spoken by hym to the peple at the fyre wherby they coude not but perceyue well that he reuoked hys errours albe it that some of them watered his wordes wyth addycyons of theyr owne as it was well proued before them They coude not also deny but that forthwyth vppon hys iudgement and hys degradacyon he kneled downe before the bysshoppes chauncellour in the presence of all the people and humbly bysought hym of absolucyon from the sentence of excōmunycacyon and wyth his iudgement helde hym selfe well content and knowleged that he had well deserued to suffer the deth that he then wyste he sholde They coude not say nay but that vppon thys hys humble request and prayour he was there in presence of all the people assoyled byfore that he was caryed out of the court whyche them selfe well wyste wolde neuer haue ben but yf he hadde reuoked yet was there a nother thynge that they coude not deny For all be it they sayd they were not therat yet they hadde herd it in suche wyse that as they sayd they byleued it to be trew and that thynge was suche as it selfe alone muste nedes make them sure that he had reuoked hys heresyes The thynge was thys He labored and made greate instaunce certayne dayes after hys iudgement that he myght be suffred to receyue the blessed body of Cryste in forme of brede wherin the chauncellour made a whyle greate stykkynge and dyffycultye to the entent that he wolde the better and more clerely perceyue what deuocyon the man hadde there to And fynally perceyuynge hym to be of a trew perfyte fayth and hys desyre to procede of a feruent mynde it was agreed and graunted And theruppon was he howseled in so trew perfyte fayth so grete deuocyon that euery good crysten man hath greate cause to reioyce therin And when hys confessour in the ende of the masse which Bylney full deuowtely herde vppon hys knees brought vnto hym the body of Cryste vppon the paten of y● chalyce wyth very good and godly exhortacyon vsed vnto hym that excepte he were in herte as he was in worde and outwarde semblaunce he shold ellys forbere to receyue that blessed body syth he sholde then vndowtedly receyue it on hys owne dānacyon it wold haue gladded any good crysten herte to haue herd hys faythfull crysten answere as they reporte testyfye that were at that tyme by Moreouer where as in the presence of that holy sacrament holden yet vppon the paten in the prestes handes Bylney byfore he receyued it sayd y● colecte Domine Iesu Christe when he came at these wordes ecclesiae tuae pacem concordiam he dyuers tymes repeted those wordes wyth tunsyons knok kynges vppon hys breste and there vnto god confessed and asked his mercy that he had so greuousely erred in y● point and so sore offended hym in co●tempnynge hys chyrche And no meruayle was it though he had a specyall remorse of that artycle For the contempnyng of Crystes catholyke knowen chyrche and the framynge of a secrete vnknowen chyrche that he lerned of Luther and Tyndale was the very poynt that broughte hym vnto all hys myschyefe as the very fundacyon wheruppon all other heresyes are byelded And therfore as the goodnesse of god gaue hym grace to cast vnto the deuyll all hys other errours so gaue he hym hys specyall grace to haue of that heresye that was and is the grounde of all the remanaunt moste especyall repentaunce and remorse wherby we may very well hope and trust that our lorde whose hygh goodnesse gaue hym suche grace so fully to repente and reuoke hys heresyes that he wyth glad herte was content to suffer the fyre for the punysshement of hys offence hath of hys infynyte mercy taken and accepted that payne for so farre as he wyll exacte of the pore mannes purgatory and settyng the merytes of hys owne paynefull passyon therunto hath forthwyth from the fyre taken hys blessed soule to heuen where he now prayeth incessauntly for the repentaunce and amendement of all suche as haue ben by hys meanes whyle he lyued into any suche errours induced or confyrmed And I fermely truste that goddys grace that effecte wyth that holy mannes prayour wyll worke and so I praye god it maye But thus ye se the Tyndale hath no greate cause to glory of hys martyrs when that theyr lyuyng is openly nought theyr opynyons suche as hym selfe wyll abhorre they redy to abiure agayne yf it myghte saue theyr lyfe theyr sectes so dysperate that eyther they dare not at the fyre set forth theyr opynyons for shame or ellys of malyce do dyssymule them to bryng the people in a false opynyon of theyr iudges to wene that they iudged wronge And Bylney that had lernynge and had ben accustumed in morall vertues was by god reuoked from Tyndals heresye ere he dyed and that of lykelyhed the rather bycause god wolde not haue all his good workes loste And yet gloryeth Tindale vngraciously in theyr destruccyon r●kenynge that theyr paynefull deth doth grete worshyppe to hys bokes whyche are of suche sorte that neuer were there worse nor more abomynable wryten And yet hys bokes beynge suche some folke there are that wyth suche folysshe fauour and suche blynde affeccyon rede them that theyr taste enfected wyth the feuer of heresyes they not onely can not decerne the thynge that they rede whyche yf they coude they were in good waye towarde amendement but are also dyscontent and angry wyth any man that wolde helpe them to perceyue it and fayne wolde they haue them rather byleued then answered Of whyche sorte some haue asked what haue I to do to medle wyth the mater sayenge that beynge laye man I sholde leue it to the clergye to wryte in and not hauynge professed the study of holy scrypture I sholde leue the mater hole vnto deuynes Surely fyrst as touchyng lernyng yf that these maters were very dowtfull and thynges of greate questyon or hadde bene so connyngly handeled by Tyndale and hys felowes as they myghte seme therby maters of greate dowte and questyon then wolde I peraduenture lette them alone my selfe to be debated by men of more erudycyon and lernynge But now the maters beynge so playne euydent and clere and by the hole chyrche of Cryste so clerely put out of questyon that it is playne and open heresye erenestly to brynge them in questyon I neuer purpose beynge in my ryght mynde and a trew crysten man to gyue an heretyque so myche authoryte as to ●eken my selfe vnable in so playne poyntes of the crysten fayth to answere hym namely syth I haue gone somwhat to scole my selfe and bestowed as many yeres in studye and vnder as connynge maysters as some of them haue and that
folke wolde so clere haue caste all heresyes out of remembraunce that neyther theym selfe shulde haue neded to wryte therof nor other folke to rede the parte of they re bokes And therfore as I wolde aduyse any man neither to rede these heretykes bokes nor myne but occupy theyr myndes better and standynge fermely by the catholyke faith of this xv C. yere neuer onys muse vppō these newe fangled heresyes so vn the tother syde yf it mysse happe any man to fall in such a fonde affeccyon vayne curiouse mynde that neither parell temporall in brech of hys pryncys proclamacyon the lawes of the realine nor the parell spyrituall in hurtynge of his owne soule nor they both to gether by puttynge hym selfe in daynger to burne both here and in hell can hold his ycchynge fyngers frome they re poysened bokes then wold I coūsayle hym in any wyse to rede therwith such thynges as are wrytten agaynste theym and way theym both at the leste wyse indyfferently and not to fall sodenly so dronke in the newe muste of they re newe●angled neweltyes that the olde holsome wyne with whych good folke haue lyued now this fyften hundred yere offend theyr dronkē taste bycause yt is not so walow swete but drynketh more of the verder Forthermore for as mych as accordynge to the wordes of Cryst Lucae .17 It wyll none otherwyse be but that some stūblyng blokkys wyll allway be by malycyouse folke layed in good peoples way though beste were to stoppe your ●aris vtterly and gyue none herynge to any false euchauntors that wold bywych you wylyly to make you delyte in those bokes yet sith some that be playne symple may fortune to be secretly mysse lede by false wyly shrewes excepte they be well armed before I doute not by godes grace but yf they rede fyrste the thynges that are wrytten agaynste theym they shall theym selfe be able to reiecte and confoūde any deuyll that wolde drawe theym to them And therfore as I am sure that euyl and vngracyouse folke shall euer fynde the meanys that suche bookes shall neuer in some corners lakke wherby good people may be deceyued and corrupted yt ys more thenne necessary that men haue agayne at hande suche bookes as may well arme them to resyste and confute them Of which kynde of good bokes all be it I knowe well there may and dowte not but there shall be many better made then myne and that some such I se alredy yet haue I not so sieyghtly seen vnto myn owne nor shoffled it vp so hastely nor let it so passe vnloked ouer by better men and better lerned also then my selfe but that I truste in god it maye amonge the better stande yet in some good stede And that it so maye to goddes honour and the profyte of some good folke I hertely byseche our lorde wythout the adspiracyon and helpe of whose especyall grace no labour of man can profyte and to whom therfore be all thanke referred whyche lyueth and regneth in eternall glorye To whych as he hath all redy brought many a blessed saynt so mote his mercy brynge with spede the soules that are in purgatory and gyue vs the here lyue in this wretched worlde ayde and helpe of grace by trewe fayth and good workes to folow them the rather by the intercessyon and prayours of all his holy sayntes that are all redy wyth hym A MEN. The preface of Tyndall wyth th● answere vnto the same Tyndall THe grace of our lorde the lyght of his spyryt to se and to iudg● trew repentaunce toward goddes law a fast fayth in the mercyfull ꝓmises that are in our sauyour Cryste feruent loue toward thy neybour after then sample of Cryste and hys sayntes be with the O reder and with all that loue the trouthe and l●nge for the redempcion of goddys elect Amen More TIndall here begynneth wyth an holy salutacyon and so doth Luther to and so doth fre●e huskyne to and id doth euery fonde felow of any of theyr sectys They begynne theyr pystles in suche apostolycall fashyon that a man wold wene yt were wryten from saynt Paule hym self But wolde god they wolde onys rather folow hym truly in fayth and good workes then in symulacion of lyke sancryte wyth theyr holy salutacyons For yf men cōsyder that where Tyndal here prayeth holy +ly for the lyghte of the spyryt to see trew repentaūce he then techeth hym selfe a sodayne sleyghte repentaūce forbedyng both confessyō all doynge of penaūce they shall yf they be good men sett lytle by hys holy salutacyon And when they cōsyder that where he prayeth god sende theym a fast fayth hym selfe techeth a false fayth agaynst the sacramētys and meneth that they shulde be fast in the same there wyll no good crysten man can hym thank for that holy prayour And where he prayeth here ●o holyly for the loue of y● neygh +bour yf men loke on the loue that ys vsed amonge all the maysters of that hole holy secte cōsyder they re lyuyngys and loke vppon frere Luther the very father of theyr hole secte and se hym ronne out of relygyon fallen to flesshe and caryn and lyue in lechery wyth a nūne vnder name of wedloke and all the cheyfe heddys of then late monkys freres and now apostatas lyuynge wyth harlotes vnder the name of wyues he that lokyth on thys and then secth theym and theyr scolers as Tyndale here and suche other come forth and speke so holyly wolde he not wene that yt were a sorte of freres folowynge an abbote of mysrule in a Christemas game that were prykked in blankettes and thē sholde stande vp and preche vppon a stole and make a mowynge sermon And as lewd sermōs as they make in such noughty games wold god that these mēnys ernyst sermons were not yet mych wurse But surely as euyll as the tother be yet is there more harme more dedely poyson to in this one sermone of Tyndalys as ye shall here or yt come at the ende then in an hundred sermons of frere Frappe that fyrste gapeth and then blessyth and loketh holyly and precheth rybauldrye to the peopell that stande aboute For there is not the worste thynge that frere Frappe precheth in a lewde sporte but fader Tyndall here wryteth mych worse in very great ernest mych worse then doth the tother abusyth the scrypture vnto yt The tother when he precheth that men may lawfully go to lcchery he maketh commenly some fonde textes of his owne hed and dare not in such madde matters medle wyth the very scrypture yt selfe But Tyndall teacheth vs in good ernest that freres may walke out and wedde nunnes and is neyther aferd nor ashamed to draw the holy scripture of god vnto the mayntenaūce of abhominabyll synne and seruyce of the deuyll The tother rybawde in hys fonde sermon medleth but with fleshly vyces and worldly wantonnes But Tyndall here with an ernest hyghe professyon of godly
god ordayne and appoynte certeyn comon fas●yng dayes in whyche the people sholde faste together For ell●● yf there were no suche the moste parte of the people whyche now in the comon fastes do tame the flesshe togyther by the commaundement and laudable custome of the chyrche of god● wolde fynde very few dayes therfore of theyr owne mynde● and many not one thorow the hole yere as ye now se it in Saxony where they that were woont to faste many faste now neuer a one And surely yf fastynge were not profytable done of any other deuocyon but onely serued for tamynge of the flesshe and then the custome taken awaye of comon fastyng dayes in whyche folke faste togyder in obedyence of the commaūdement those comon dayes taken away folke were onely lefte to theyr owne lybertye and pryuate secrete conscyens to chose theyr fastyng dayes theyr selfes not of any other deuocyon but onely for tamynge of theyr flesshe when them selfe fele it begynne to boyle then many wedded men sholde nede few fastynge dayes to theyr payne hauynge theyr remedy so pleasaunt and so present alway redy at hande and then wolde many an honest maydē be ashamed to faste any daye at all leste she sholde seme therby to gyue yonge men warnynge that she were waxe warme and byd them yf they wyll spede speke now But Tyndale with hys spyrytuall felowes are fallen in to thys foly by the lykynge of theyr owne luste in fauoure wherof they synfully studye to fynde out fals gloses to be open glotons wythout reproche and also wyth the prayse of suche people as theyr false doctryne hath corrupted and brought in a wronge bylefe contrary to all doctryne of all the olde holy doctours and agaynst all holy scripture euyn the very gospell it selfe and the very wordes of Cryste by whyche not onely all crysten people hytherto but also the iewes haue from the begynnyng ben taught to byleue that mannys fastynge hath ben pleasaunt to god for other causes then Tyndale wolde haue it seme that sercheth and seketh onely the meanes to breke it Tyndale and hys mayster be wonte to crye owte vppon the pope and vppon all the clergye for that they medle phylosophy wyth the thynges of god whyche is a thynge that may in place be very well done syth the wysdom of phylosophy all that we fynde true therin is the wysdom gyuen of god and may well do seruyce to hys other gyftes of hygher wysdome then that is But Tyndale here in this place as it semeth doeth lene vnto the olde naturall phylosophers all togyther For as for abstynence to tame the flesshe from intemperaunce and fowle lustes also thys was a thynge that many phylosophers dyd bothe teache and vse But as for fastyng that is a nother thynge whyche god hath alwayes amonge hys faythfull people had obserued and kepte not onely for that purpose but also for a kynde of payne● a●●ly●cyon and punysshement of the flesshe for theyr synnes and to put vs in remembraūce that we be now in the vale of terys and not in the hyll of ioye sauynge for the comfort of hope And all be it that Tyndale be lothe to here therof bycause he wolde not that any man sholde do true penaunce wyth puttynge hymselfe to any payne for hys owne synnes yet wolde god the contrary And as he wyll that men for theyr synnys sholde be sory in theyr hartes so wolde he that for the same cause the sorow of theyr hartes sholde redownde in to theyr bodyes and that we sholde for the prouocacyon of goddys mercy humble our selfe before hym and not onely pray for forgyuenesse but also put our bodies to payne and afflyccyon of our owne selfe therby to shewe how heuely we take it that we haue offended hym And to th entent that we sholde well knowe that fastyng not onely for tamyng of the flesshe but also for payne to be taken for our synnys was pleasaunt vnto hym Leuit. 23. Zachar. 8. he taught hys people by hys prophetes that they sholde faste and appoynted them certen dayes It apperyth also that fastynge was is pleasaunt vnto god when men do for de●ocyon to god not onely forbere theyr pleasure but also parte of theyr necessary sustynaūs in occupyeng the tyme of vsuall fedyng of the flesshe about the plenteouse norysshyng spyrytuall pamperyng of the soule Also vnto the obtaynyng of great spyrytuall gyftes of god hygh reuelacyōs how specyall a thynge fastyng is bothe our sauyour declareth hym selse in the gospell of Matthew Matth. 17. where he sayth that that kynde of deuylles which he dyd caste out of the chylde is not caste out but by prayour fastyng And of all these thynges we haue in holy sayntes lyues so many examples that it were ouer longe to reherse them But for as mych as we se well that Tyndale maketh but mokkys of all such maters and all theyr holy reuelacyons and myracles taketh but for tryfels we shall sende hym to loke better vppon the good bokes whyche hym selfe hath euyll of euyll purpose translated the bookes I mene of the holy scrypture it selfe For therin shall he se that fastynge serueth not onely to tame the fleshe but for all these good vses also that we haue spoken of before and yet for many other mo And there shall he specyally se the thynge that he is moste lothe to let you se that fastynge and other bodely afflyccyō eyther taken by commaundement of god and hys chyrche or wyllyngly taken of our owne good mynde done for our synnys done in true fayth and deuocyon wyth purpose of amendement is one of the very specyall thynges that obteyne remyssyō of the synne releace of the more payne with gettynge greater grace increace of goddys fauour whych thynge is the same that he his felowes do so sore oppugne that the whole chyrche of Cryste prestes and laye men bothe call satysfaccyon not meanynge that we can do penaunce inough for our synnes nor that we coulde do any thynge therof at all wythout helpe of grace nor that all that we can do coulde be wurth a flye to heuenwarde wythout Crystes passyon but that wyth helpe of grace and merytys of Crystes passyō our good workes well wrought helpe to gete remyssyon and purchase vs pardon and releace of payne and may well be done for that intente and be by god ordeyned to serue vs to that intente and for that cause be they by the chyrche called satysfaccyon for the deuour that we shold do to punysshe at the full our offenses our selfe that god therby y● rather moued wyth mercy shold withdrawe his great heuy punyshement whych elles he shall cause to be done vnto vs hym selfe and not so sore yf we i●dge and amende our fawtes our selfe accordyng to the wordes of the blessed apostle to the Corynthyes 1. Cor. 11 If we iudged our selfes we sholde not be iudged of our lord And surely yf we iudge our self truly we