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A20391 A dialogue, concerning the strife of our churche wherein are aunswered diuers of those vniust accusations, wherewith the godly preachers and professors of the Gospell, are falsly charged; with a briefe declaration of some such monstrous abuses, as our byshops haue not bene ashamed to foster. 1584 (1584) STC 6801; ESTC S109629 51,954 154

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goe about to put out thirtie or fortie in a shire and then to saie where shall we haue preachers is an odde kinde of question To fill vp the roomes so soone as they be voide with Taylers and seruingmen or such like so that the learned men in the Vniuersities not called foorth do hold stil their fellowships in Colledges the yong men therby constrained for want of maintainance depart from thence before they be halfe ripe some to teach schollers some into gentlemens houses manie to pop into the ministery before they bee méete to guide themselues and then to demaund where shall wee haue learned men is also verie absurd To the seconde I aunswere that if Bishops Deanes and all the fat ones of the Cleargie did not loue their owne bellyes more then the thinges which are of the Lorde Iesus and if they did not esteeme the pompe pleasures and richesse of the worlde more then mens soules there would be such sufficiencie of maintenaunce that if there were fiue Preachers where ther is but one yet none of them should be so bare as to liue with 20. pounde by the yeare We read Actes 4. that when the Church was in need such as had possessions sold them to relieue the bodies of the bretheren that wanted How much more then ought those which haue their thousandes to imploy and bestow the same to haue the soules of men fedde Mens soules do famish you saye if it be so it is because in manie places they haue not maintenaunce for a Preacher I praye yee which of the fedde men haue deminished their pompe their richesse and pleasures which neuer did penyworth of good in the Church to set vp faithfull Teachers What drop of zeale for Gods glory doth appear in manie of thē But if this seeme harde as it will to worldly minded mē yet why haue they cōsented that a number should do nothing but hunt after benefices prefermentes and to heap vp liuing vpon liuing so that one mā must haue the portions of fiue or six some which are past this haue put all their treasure in one bag will confesse this is abhominable but which of thē doth seek redres If the people be in so good case as you say thē ther needeth no redresse For you say they be wel are come frō popery I maruel to what they be come they say in deed that the pope is naught but try thē ye shal find that they are stuffed ful of popish and supersticious opinions which are contrary to the wholsom doctrine of the gospel The scriptures euery where doe describe true Christians to bee holye and pure and full of the knowledge of God And as for those that walke in darkenesse wallowing in all filthie vices the Lorde denounceth vengeaunce against them When the true and faithfull Preachers doe teach men that they can not be saued vnlesse they tourne from their euill wayes seeking after the true knowledge of God and walke woorthie of the same and that such as be supersticious such as be swearers such as bee couetous such as be drunkards and Adulterers such as be ignorant despisers of the knowledge of the will of God finally such as liue in anie abhominable vices are not true Christians by and by like warriers for the Deuils kingdom ye saie we would haue the people become Puritans A man can not so soone mislike grose sins but straightway O syr you like none but Puritans You iudge and condemne men Howe can you tell who haue faith Surely if this bee not to seduce to harden and strengthen men in their wickednesse I know not what is Might not all this bee spoken to the Prophetes of God in olde time by the false Prophetes which did flatter the wicked euen as such as you be doe now It woulde make a mans heart bleed to see in what case multitudes of people are for want of teaching and yet you say they be wel The greatest multitude by manye partes doe not vnderstande the Lordes prayer the ten Commaundementes or the Articles of the faith or the doctrine and vse of the Sacramentes in anye competent measure There be thousandes which bee men and women growen which if a man aske them howe they shall be saued they can not tell As for wickednesse in pride enuie hatred al sinns that can be named almost it doth ouerflowe yet you are not ashamed to say are they not christians do they not call vpon God at their ende This is the deuinitie of some of our great diuines at this day Let men liue as they lust in ignoraunce and all abhominations so they call at the last and say Lorde haue mercy vppon me we must iudge their estate as good as the best As though the Lorde had not sayde Yee shall crye and not be heard Prouerb 1. And as though such as know not the faith beeing brought vp in blindnesse coulde of a soudden euen at their pleasure pray in faith without doubting For the Scripture sheweth that he which doth doubt in his prayer shall obtayne nothing Iames. 1. Our sauiour willeth men to striue to enter in at the straight gate shewing that fewe shall finde it If a man maye follow his lustes and walke in the blindnesse of his heart all his life and then a little calling at the last would serue What hardnesse were in it When yee tell men God is mercifull all men sinne what shoulde yee make your selfe more holy then other Yee ouerthrow all the doctrine of regeneration and all the precepts which the Apostles doe giue for walking worthie the Gospell You make the good and the bad in one condition as though there were no profite to serue the Lord as he complaineth Malachy 3. But wherefore doe great men now a dayes take it so grieuously the anye difference of men should be made Surely I will tell yee the cause They would not haue their treason against the Church of Christ espied when they thrust vppon them wicked and vnlearned ministers For they woulde haue men taught and men vntaught men Godly and men wicked all in one account that it might not appeare howe they murther mens soules Nay yee like best as yee confesse of those that be ignoraunt And why Because they are quiet In deed you are least troubled with those which be moste ignoraunt for they can not espie your dealing Such as haue knowledge in Gods worde can saye what a wolfe is this he hath three benefices and setteth a Tailer in one a drunckard in an other And how he flaunts it He doth visite them once in a yeare to see that they doe him no wrong in his tithes Philochrem If I had authoritie I would punish yee sharply and make yee carrie a better tongue in your head For if this may be suffered we shall haue euerie man a controller shortly Yee are the vilest men that liue and indeed such as do most hurt of all others Yee are a pestilent generation