A SURVEY OF THE SURVEY of that SUMME OF Church-Discipline Penned by Mr. Thomas Hooker Late Pastor of the Church at HARTFORD upon Connecticot in New England WHEREIN The Way of the Churches of N. England is now re-examined Arguments in favour thereof winnowed The Principles of that Way discussed and the Reasons of most seeming strength and nerves removed By SAMUEL RUTHERFURD Professor of Divinity in the University of S. Andrews in Scotland Revel 21. 9. And there came unto me one of the seven Angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues and talked with me saying Come hither I will shâ—w thee the Bride the Lambs wife V. 10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain and shewed me that great City the holy Ierusalem descending out of heaven from God Ezek. 48. 35. And it was round about eighteen thousand measures and the name of the City from that day shall be The LORD is there LONDON Printed by I. G. for Andr. Crook at the Green Dragon in S t Pauls Church-yard M. DC LV III. Christian READER IT were good there were more believing and less disputing in the world and that all especially the Ambassadors of the Prince of Peace would listen to that 1 Tim. 4. 4. not to give heed to fables and endless genealogies which minister questions rather then godly edifying which is in faith as also to consider that the holy Ghost states an opposition betwixt questions of perverse disputers and godliness 1 Tim. 6. 4 5. In this Piece which the violence of requests in some the importunity of chiding in others and the less modest triumphing in not a few hath extorted rather than willingly brought forth the question of the preference of humble believing above all factious disputing even though the subject were the form the going out and the coming of the house of the Lord is with me and which is of infinite more weight with the truly godly soon determined for Blessed is the servant whom the Master when he cometh shall finde watching praying believing not tossing and raising the dust of debating and multiplied Replies and Duplies since the peace and joy of believing that we may abound in hope through the power of the holy Ghost is of great price with those in whom the meekness and gentleness of Christ hath place For it were desireable not to be in bondage to either Engine or Pen and it would appear that there is less of Christ and more of Self in our sickness of over-loving these truths which suffer most bruising and grinding might I be licensed so to speak between the Milstones of Sides Opinions and Contradictions of Parties as if that were the choicest verity which the mans own engine hath taken out of an Adversaries hand in a manner with his bowe and his sword But O how more precious were it if the holy Ghost had perswaded the man of the sweetness of it from the fountain of holy Scripture for it is beyond doubting that syllogisms and haply thirty two or fourty Arguments have not such leading and captivating influences upon the heart as the convincing light of the Spirit acting upon the supernatural instinct of the new birth to bring the thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ. For when the head is filled with topicks and none of the flamings of Christs love in the heart how dry are all disputes for too often servouâ—of dispute in the head weakens love in the heart And what can our Paper-industry adde to the spotless truth of our Lord Iesus O that Opinions were down and the Gospel up and Sides and Parties might fall and Christ stand and that all Names Sects and Ways were low and the Lord alone exalted and that we could both dispute for Iehovah and in the same act worship Iehovah There is too much fire stricken out of the letter in our debates it were good that the Spirit with fire from heaven did animate and inliven the letter and word of our Polemicks it were good that the Ministers of the Gospel in the Isle of Britain were well studied and read in that celebrious and noble Text Iesus Christ and him crucified that we might contend for his high interests and had the Key of David to open Christ to commend him in all his loveliness and people would come and see and wonder then should we know how choiser it were to act in our selves the love of Christ being warmed and inflamed therewith than to write the letters of his love in ink and paper and to declaim of it to others Neither is this spoken to deny but many precious and savoury truths as Christ himself have endured contradiction of sinners but the witnesses both sealed these truths with their blood and were in their debatings shined upon by the out-lettings and emanations of the Spirit of Christ. It were safer to lie in the dust and be humbled before the Lord for the breach of Covenant the vast toleration of false Religions our vanity of apparel when we busk and adorn our selves in filks even in our state of captivity for intemperance execrable swearing lying mocking and persecuting of godliness lothing and hating the godly covetousness the barrenness of our profession and which is the root of all Atheism gross ignorance of God and of Jesus Christ the abounding of many other iniquities as if we would make it appear that three Englands are scarce sufficient to humble one Scotland Which is not spoken to justifie the Author or a party from deep accession to these sins or to clear and acquit the members of our Church from the charge put on them by Mr. Hooker It s true we judge it not warrantable to say that the servants are to call and invite none to the marriage-banquet but such as they look on as regenerate and clothed with the wedding-garment nor to teach that the Lord of Hosts shall make a feast of fat things a seast of wine on the lees of fat things full of marrow unto and for a visible society of which Magus the Sorcerer Iudas the Traitor are priviledged members and that the Lord in them shall destroy the covering cast over all people and the vail that is spread over all nations and that in the members of that Church-frame of which we now dispute it s verified which the Prophet saith Isa. 30. 26. Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenâ—old as the â—â—ght of seven days as Mr. H. cited for without the salvo and â—enitive of a figure the part for the whole his Congregational visible Church can never stand under the weight of such glorious Prophesies as are fulfilled in the onely really gracious and chosen of God visible or invisible Yet should the desire of our soul be that there be upon the bells of the horses Holiness unto the Lord and the pots in the Lords house may be
c. and they are also common members of the whole organical body Therefore by Mr. H. his Logick the thumb must be the little finger and when the thumb is cut off the thumb remains Let Mr. H. or any for him answer Mr. H. his Sophism 2. Mr. H. makes an Assumption but could not infer any conclusion nor frame a Syllogism This connexion is never proved There are the same members common remote of every particular Congregation or of all the Congregations on earth therefore every Congregation is the same and Ephesus must be Smyrna Put Mr. H. or any man for him to prove the connexion and they must be silenced These Congregations must be the same and the one must be affirmed of the other which have the same individual persons to be common members to both Nothing more false and so Mr. H. his received Rules vanish For say that all Citizens of York were Citizens of London and Citizens of London were also Citizens of York and they had the same common Laws City-priviledges the same Rules it follows onely they differ not in nature but in number and accidents but no Logick can infer Ergâ— York is London and London is York or that the one is affirmed of the other as Ephesus is said to be Smyrna So nothing follows but onely Ephesus and Smyrna are not Churches different in essence and nature but onely in number which is that which we teach Mr. H. Mr. R. yieldeth that one Church hath not power over another but if one who is a member of one Congregation be a member of all then the members of this Province may send messengers to the Synod of another Province Answ. Mr. H. would do well to prove his deductions for common members as common members send not Commissioners nay nor one Church to another but as God is the God of order so such a Church in an association do send to a larger Church Mr. H. It is folly to seek differences saith Mr. R. between Congregations from a Chuâ—ch covenant which is common to all Congregations It is true saith Mr. H particular Congregations and Church covenants differ not in essence and nature but there is a real difference from this Church in another Church in their specificating and individual formality The rule of old was Genus cum forma constituit speciem Answ. It is great folly to seek differences essential when all Congregations agree in the last specifick difference This Congregation and that Church differ only in accidents except Mr. H. shew us essential and specificating differences between one Christ the head one faith one Baptism one hope of Glory one Lords Supper one Bread in all Churches Eph. 4. 1 2 3 4. 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor. 12. 13. one power of binding on earth one and the same body Matth. 18. 15 16 17 18. Ioh. 20. 21 22. 1 Cor. 12. 12 13. from the same Christ the same Faith the same Baptism c. in another Congregation and when the Church of the Jews and the Church of the Gentiles differ only as two Sisters Cant. 8. 8. and in regard of age which is a meer accident as Mother and Daughter Isa. 54. 1 2. Isa. 49. 20 21. Cant. 3. 4. It is folly for Mr. H. to trouble us with new Logick such as the specificating formality in Peter for that is no new degree of essence in Peter which was not in man but the same contracted to the individual differences of time place figure c. Let Mr. H. shew a specifick difference between Christ and the seal in this and in that Congregation 2. That Genus cum forma constituit speciem is neither old nor new rule the true rules are Genus differentia constituunt speciem compositum Metaphysicum and materia forma constituunt compositum seâ— corpus Physicum 3. Whereas Mr. H. saith that this and this Congregation and this Church-covenant differ really ut res res and if they differ in accidents these must be either common or proper it 's answered 1. Mr. Cotton and Mr. Hooker are not two new kinds and species of Pastors because officers of divers Congregations and Iohn and Peter members of the same Congregation differ ut res res and so in the Church of Ierusalem there shall be five thousand species and kinds of members five thousand kinds of Church-covenants of Baptisms of Lords Suppers of new species of rights to the Seals in one single Congregation For they differ really ut res res when as they differ only in number and it were good that Mr. H. had expressed to us what be these proper accidents by which Congregations differ among themselves It is true the particular combination gives distinct being to the Classis but it gives not a being distinct in nature and essence but only in individual properties from the being of other Classis Mr. H. How comes it this Church hath power over this person which another Church hath not but from some speciall engagement Ans. It is from no marriage engagement but from providential conveniency the wise Lord seeing it Physically impossible that the whole Catholike Church so numerous can be fed in the same field by the same men therefore he divided them in sundry little flocks over which the shepherds combined have power not as married husbands but as meer servants Mr. H. The peculiar and individual formalities of engagements difference all voluntary covenants should a man say I am a Master of servants therefore thou art my servant servant-covenant is common to all there is only a difference in number and some accidents a people might say to a Pastor of another Congregation The covenant between Pastor and People is common to all and makes no difference but in number and accidents therefore thou art our Pastor that a man should be a general husband to all women and a woman a general wife to all men because marriage-covenant is common seems folly we are content to bear the charge of folly Answ. 1. I am far from charging folly on these godly men but weakness should appear in the Argument If Mr. H had framed an Argument thus if all Covenants of Master and servant of husband and wife agree in essence and nature and differ in number and accidents only then may a Master claim all men on earth to be his servants and then may a husband claim all women on earth to be his married wâ—ves This is most false and not proved by Mr. H. for the just contradiction is true If covenants between Master and Servant between Husband and Wife differ in number then must a Master make a covenant in number different with servants one with this servant and another covenant different in number from that with another or then he can claim neither the one nor the other for his servant because covenants between master and servant are all of the same common nature nor because Abraham
26 27. Rom. 10. 9. 2. If this be a Gospel ordinance give us Scripture for it 3. Dissolved members are never loosed from Church-warning comforting rebuking otherwise they were not to gaine their brethren 4. Christ by no hint or shadow layes the duty of gaining a brother upon our membership with single Congregations a thing of order and providential necessity but upon brotherhood Mat. 11. If thy brother trespass against thee c. Now he is as near my brother who is of another Congregation or a dissolved member as he who is my Congregational Brother 5. The inclosed gainable trespassing bretheren within the pinfold of a single Congregation seem to make onely the Congregation the visible Kingdom of Christ the Scripture teaching Nations the Kindreds and Kingdoms of the world to be his Rev 11. 15. Rev. 2. 1 2 3. Ps. 22. 27 28. Ps. 72. 3 4 5 6. Ps. 2 8 9. Isa. 60. 1 2 3 c. It is true Christ exerciseth his Ministerial power as King in Congregations yea and in Synods also saith Mr. Cotton 2. The oneness of his visible body is larger then a Congregation 1 Cor. 10. 17. 1 Cor 12. 12 13 c. Mr. H. That a Minister swear an oath of fidelity saith Mr. R. to the flock a Father a Master to discharge duties to Children and Servants is lawful but to tye the essence of a Minister Father Master to this oath so that he is no Minister before he thus swear is to lay bâ—nds where Christ hath laid none and will-worship Ans. The instance of a Father because it results upon a rule of nature without any free consent required is not to the purpose the other two cuts the throat of Mr. Râ— cause can any charge another to be his servant without mutual engagement that which makes a man a Pastor to this people is the free choice of the people we do not make the swearing to do our duty to be our covenant a witness ties himself by oath to tell the truth in a Court here is no covenant between man and man at all Those are to be distinguished 1. An agreement of persons to combine and associate 2. The doing of these duties 3. The swearing they will do them the first is the form of the Corproation the other two may be done after they be combined Ans. 1. The instance brought by me is as well of a moral father as a natural father and his either agreeing by promise or oath to the people makes him not a Pastor a Pastor to them is another thing nor doth the election of the people make a Pastor the ordination of the Elders by prayer makes him a Pastor Act. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 2. The being a Pastor to the people doth not make a Pastor for it is but actus secundus the exercise of his calling not the essence of the Minister 3. The man doth tender the Lords Supper which is a specifick and proper act of a Pastor and that warrantably to these who are of another Congregation and never chused him for their Pastor 2. The other two hurt not the truth I desire not to plead mine own cause a man is made a servant to a master by mutual agreement true Ergo a Minister is made an Embassador Pastor and Servant of Christ by the election of the people it follows not for were he a servant in relation to the people onely this were something but the peoples chusing of him hath not any influence at all in the essence of a Pastor 3. My Argument proves that swearing as it includes a free agreement to the duties of a Father Moral or Officer or Master or Pastor doth not make the man a Father a Master a Pastor especially when the man is Father servant of Christ and Pastor habitu and actu primo to all the Churches on earth before he agree to be Father and Pastor to this Congregation as I thus illustrate a free City appoint four men fearing God to be Rulers or Bailiffes to them the City divides it self into four quarters the first quarter agreeth with such a man to rule them The next quarter agreeth with the second to rule and so do the rest Now no man can say this first quarter made the man a Magistrate for the whole City made all the four of private men to be publick Magistrates and quarters by agreement did only appropriate their labours to them So Titio covenants with a Mason with a Gardener to build him a House and plant him a Vineyard yet this agreement makes neither the one a Mason nor the other a Gardener for they were such before nor doth the sick mans chusing of such a Physician to cure him make the man a Physician Any man knows that the people call and chuse Epaphroditus not that they may make him a gracious and an able Minister but because they discerned him to be such therefore they chused him 4. A Witness who swears to tell the truth engageth covenant-wise to tell the truth though the engagement be put upon him by the command of the Judge Mr. H. Neither the incestuous Corinthian 2 Cor. 2. 73 74. saith Mr. R. nor these 3000. Act. 2. nor Samaria nor any planted Churches of Ephesus Acts 19. of Corinth Acts 18. Berea Philippi Thessalonica Rome give any hint of a Church-covenant Ans. The Churches forgiving and confirming of their love to the incestuous Corinthian was a receiving of him of new to covenant had his profession at large made him a member he had been a member whether the Church received him or not or had baptism made him a member that remaining he should have been a member a disfranchised man is so received by Covenant anew to City-priviledges Ans. 1. Nothing is answered to these celebrious Samplar-Churches planted without this new covenant 2. One excommunicate for a particular scandal as the incestuous Corinthian was retaining some profession retaineth some membership and is onely deprived of Church-honour and of some Ordinances 3. But of Baptism before 4. The forgiving of that man may say somewhat to the restoring of him to the priviledges of the Covenant of Grace but nothing of a Church-covenant 5. The civil Corporations way of re-admitting disfranchised members is no binding Rule to the Church of God Mr. H. There is no word of Church-covenant in these places Acts 2. it follows not Ergo it is not in the word Ans. The consequence is not valid from particular Negatives but if there be no Covenant in any place where mention is made of planting of Churches it holds well Heb. 7. 14. Moses who in his writings speaks of all sorts of Priests spake nothing concerning Priesthood in the Tribe of Iudah Ergo there is no Priest of that Tribe And there is no hint in Scripture where the sacrifice of Christ is spoken of that there is any ungodly sacrifice Ergo say our Divines the sacrifice of the Mass
divers congregations to be acts of Adultery 3. It makes a Pastor to be married till death 4. When the congregation is dissolved by persecution the godly Pastor is cast out of his Masters service by the nature of this covenant because he is faithful to Christ and that by Christ himself 5. It divorces between all godly Pastors and all Churches on earth so that it is not lawful to preach pastorally or to tender the seals to another congregation or any member thereof though Letters of Recommendation as our Brethren say may give Church right to the seâ—ls to those of another congregation to be admitted to the Lords Supper yet we still desire to Quere Whether the Pastor upon the banishment or death of the Pastors of sister congregations may not lawfully pastorally preach and tender the seals to them or not if the former here is a strange man acting as a husband to another mans wife 2. Here is a Pastor acting as a Pastor and a Shepherd to those that are not his flock and that by no intervening of a Church-covenant and he wants the essentials of a Pastor which is the choise of that people 3. Here is Mr. H. his relation between Pastor and People broken and their principles destroyed if the latter be said 1. What difference is there between his tendring of the seals to those of another congregation in his own Church and in another Church except the walls of the house make the difference 2. Why should he not tender the other seal of Regeneration common to all covenanted ones Act. 2. 39. as well as the Lords Supper 3. If he may not as a Pastor in another congregation How or by what authority of Scripture are Pastors onely Ambassadors of the King Messengers of the Lord of Hosts Workers with Christ Stewards Dispensers of the Mysteries of the Gospel Sent of God Friends of the Bridegroom and can act onely as such within the precincts of a congregation and lose both name and thing when they pass over the line to visible Saints of another congregation The Priests might not offer sacrifice and offerings but in the place that the Lord should appoint in his Word shew us a word confining pastoral acting 〈◊〉 Ambassadors to one flock onely 6. This destroyes the communion of Churches as Churches and makes Synods in which Pastors act as Pastors to other congregations associate as Mr. Cotton teacheth to be no Ordinances of Christ. 7. The same husbandly power must be in Doctors so that they write not books as Doctors to other Congregations but onely to their own 8. What Scripture warranteth the same Pastor in the same Sermon preaching to his own flock and to many strangers of another congregation to act as a Pastor to his own onely and to others as a gifted man and to hear in the same word to the conscience of the one by pastoral authority and to the other by private authority such as a gifted plowman or woman hath 9. Onely Christ is the Bridegroom Spouse Husband of his Church Ioh. 3. Eph. 5. Cant. 6. 1 2 3 4. and it will not suffice to say Christ is the supreme Catholick Husband of all Churches but the pastor is the under-politick head and husband of the congregation as some distinguish For the Husband and Bridegroom are as incommunicable Titles proper to Christ onely as to be the Head of the Church Eph. 1. 22. Col. 1. 18. and yet Jesuites do but mock when they say That Christ is the principal and perpetual Head of the whole Church in a soveraign and principal manner but the Pope is the Ministerial Head Nor do Papists make the Pope a Father Husband Bridegroom and Head of the Church by the spiritual influence of life motion and grace yet are they refuted by Willet D. Fulk Cartwright and ours And Mr. H. will but ad nausâ—am inculcate that the Pastor is the married Husband and the Congregation his onely Wife and that he may not act as a pastor toward others than his own flock more than a man may venture to take the place and to do the duties of a husband to a woman and tell her he is in the Covenant of grace and there needâ—… Marriage-covenant Hence I infer he cannot dispense the Lords Supper to one of another congregation contrary to himself and his Brethren except he be married by a Church-covenant to them and so he must be a husband and perform the duties of a husband to a hundred persons of a hundred associate congregations But it had been fit Mr. H. had produced any words of mine that bear that being in the Covenant of grace can warrant a man to discharge pastoral duties either to one congregation or other before he be lawfully called of God by the Church and before he formally consent and engage not implicitely but formally and expresly to feed the flock of God or that any mans being in the covenant of grace licenses him to do all duties whatsoever of a Pastor of a Magistrate of a Husband of a Physician bâ—fore he be lawfully called of God to the calling of a Pastor a Magistrate a Husband a Physician And Mr. H. wrongfully would that the Reader should believe That Mr. R. so teacheth There are some actions indeed that the visible and professed being in the covenant of grace warranteth a man to do to wit to partake of the seals in all congregations without any new Church-covenant to gain a trespassing brother to counsel teach rebuke comfort Church-members of all congregations where it shall please God he shall be for the present And Mr. R. denies that these are either pastoral or husband-duties and thinks Mr. H. in a great errour for if one of another congregation should trespass against a member of a sister-congregation near by Mr. H. hath furnished the offender rebuked with this Reply You and I are not congregational Brethren nor married members of the same congregation and therefore the covenant of grace warrants not you to rebuke me or to tell the Church of my obstinacy in Adultery except you and I had both sworn in the same Marriage-congregational covenant for the covenant of grace no more warranteth you to gain me in a Church way than it warranteth a man to do husband-duties to the Woman with whom he never made any Marriage-covenant and so all duties of this kinde performed by Presbyterians never so godly must be Antichristian and adulterous Mr. H. This new Covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the congregation saith Mr. R. never 〈◊〉 of us saith Mr. H. said any such thing The Church as totum essentiale made of visible Saints covenanting to watch over one another in a Church-Way is before her officers the particular members are members before they choose their Pastors and therefore are not made Church-members by this new covenant Ans. There be too many wayes to the Well here I said the new covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the
saith he but can there be no allusion to a Iudicature except the one to which allusion is made and that of which the present speech is have the like power Then cannot the Scripture allude to earthly Princes who place their greatest Courtier upon the right hand because earthly Princes have not the like power with the Father of Jesus Christ. This destroys all allusions which abound in the Scripture as Paul Rom. 10. 18. alludes to the Sun Malachi compareth Gospel-worship to the burning of Incense chap. 1. shall it then follow that the one is of the nature of the other That allusions bring little light is said without ground for they being grounded upon Metaphors often which bring light must bring much light 3. That Synagogues had no power to excommunicate seems to bring darkness and not light The contrary is Iob. 9. and 16. Though they abused that Ordinance Mr. H. It s in vain to send the plaintiff to a general Councel he might be dead before he be relieved and the Councel be gathered Ans. We send no man by a loup to a General Councel but the grieved man may appeal to the nearest Judicature and Mr. H. will have him to loup to a General Councel at the first being accused of a scandal which declares that he would elude all the Government of Christ between him and that Judicature 2. We do not maintain any Appeals whatsoever but onely righteous Appeals Illud tantum pâ—ssumus quod jure possumus 3. So may the plaintiff be buried before a Synod by way of consultation may be had the wayes of Discipline aâ— all Christs ordinary wayes in the Gospel may possibly never take effect in those to whom the word is a savour of death unto death but that doth not nullifie an Ordinance of God Mr. H. Our Saviour Mat. 18. points at a standing Tribunal of such a Church as is at hand whereof both parties were members Ans. It s a perverting of the words of Christ Mat. 18. that no man trespassing whom I must endevour to gain can be my brother but he who is a member of the same congregation of which I am a member This is to renounce and quit all brotherly communion with all Churches on earth but onely that single congregation of which I am a member when not one brother but twenty or many Churches of brethren without the congregation as false brethren of Iudea trespass against Antioch by perverse doctrine Act. 15. there is not a Judicature aâ— hand hath Christ provided to tell no Church and left no remedy to remove the greatest of scandals Mr. H. How could a Church in an Island or the first Church at Jerusalem Act. 1. 23. exercise discipline upon an offender upon this ground Ans. Why not since the purpose of Christ is That every Church even the less of one hundred and twenty Acts 1. and the greater of ten thousands Act. 2. 4. 6. should respectively purge themselves and when association of many Churches about shall be they should also purge those without the congregation Scandals fall out where many meetings are and one onely Presbytery over them as Mr. H. granteth to which of the meetings shall the plaintiffs complain The offenders are of divers Meetings or Churches that are not at hand Mr. H. The Sanhedrim is a mixt Iudicature partly of Ecclesiastical partly of Civil Iudges Deut. 17. 12. 2 Chron. 19. Ergo allusion cannot be made thereunto Ans. The Consequence is naught 2. Mr. H. with the Prelates confound the Judicatures but they are clearly distinguished while one is appointed for the matters of the King another for the matters of the Lord 2 Chron. 19. 11. So are they distinguished The Priest or the Judge not the Priest and the Judge Diut 17. 12. Men might sinsully confound them but sin is no institution of the Lord. Mr. H. Arg. 2. The Church of believers is that which meets for prophecying and for praying but this Mat. 18. especially for binding and loosing and censures Mr. H. The Church of believers is assembled mainly for prophecying and praying yet not onely but for censures also the Word being ended Ans. That is indeed in question That men women and children meet ordinarily every Lords-day for to act in all Ordinances and after Sermon to leed witness binde and loose and that under the notion of believers for neither here nor in Scripture is there warrant for this Mr. H. Arg. 3. The Church Mat. 18. is such a superiour and judicial Seat as is to be obeyed in the Lord under the pain of excommunication But a multitude of believers are not such a seat So Mr. R. Mr H. The Major is the question and the Conclusion is to be proved whether a particular congregation be the highest Tribunal or the classical Church and Mr. R. takes one part of the Conclusion to prâ—ve the other If the congregation be not highest then the classical must be The Minor should have been proved not nakedly propounded Ans. I propound a Syllogism and for answer to the minor Mr. H. transforms my Argument which I dreamed not of and sayes I take one part of the conclusion to prove the other If the congregation be not highest then the classis is But Sir that is not one part of the conclusion to prove another but since you bring it it s a lawful Syllogism Either the congregation or the classis is the highest Tribunal But not the congregation Yet this is Mr. H. Arg. not mine The Church Mat. 18. is such a superiour seat as is to be obeyed as being over us in the Lord c. But no Scripture no Divine in the world saith That the multitude of believers I use not there the term Congregational Church at all is such a superiour Seat that is over the Guides and whom the Guides do obey in the Lord or disobey under the pain of Excommunication This minor of mine is not nakedly propounded The Scripture saith the officers are over the multitude of believers in the Lord 1 Thess. 5. 12 14. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 17. But the contrary is never said they do not awake that say this is to take one part of a conclusion to prove the other for its a conclusion proved by a medium that is no part neither subject nor attribute of the conclusion Mr. H. Arg. 4. of Mr. R. Whatever the Church may excommunicate every member thereof convened with the Church may inflict all inferiour censures But all the members cannot inflict lesser punishment for neither women nor aged children nor the unofficed brethren can rebuks exhort or by the Word openly convince the officers Ans. The consequence is feeble as appears from the nature of delegated power which is committed by Christ to persons capable thereof which women for their sex children for the want of the exercise of understanding cannot do People have power to choose officers therefore women have power to put in