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A07696 A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535. 1553 (1553) STC 18082; ESTC S112882 216,983 350

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countrey and had made manye suche treatises hymselfe When he toke him the treatise and that he had read it he asked hym howe he lyked it and sayd But I pray you tell me the verye trouth and that he spake so heartely that the tother had went he would fayne haue heard the t●outh and in trust therof he tolde him a fault therein At the hearyng whereof he sware in greate angre By the masse thou art a very foole The other afterward tolde me that he would neuer tell him trueth agayne Anthony Without question Cosyn I cannot greatly blame him and thus themselfe make euerye manne mocke them flatter thē deceiue them Those I say that are of suche vayneglorious mind For if they bee content to heare the trueth let them than make muche of those that tell them trueth and withdrawe theyr eare from them that falsely flatter them and they shal be more truelye serued than with .xx. requestes praying men to tell them trueth Kyng Ladislaus our lord assoyle his soule vsed muche thys maner among his seruauntes when any of them praysed any dede of his or any condicion in him if he perceiued that they sayde but trueth he woulde let it passe by vncontrolled But when he sawe that they sette to a glose vpon it for hys prayse of their owne makyng besyde then woulde he shortlye saye vnto them I praye thee good fellowe when thou sayest grace at my borde neuer brynge in Gloria patri without a Sicut erat Euery acte that euer I dyd if thou reporte it agayne to mine honor with a Gloria patri Neuer reporte it but with a Sicut era● that is to wete euen as it was● and none other wyse lyfte me not vp with no lyes for I loue it not If men would vse this waie with them that this noble king vsed it woulde minishe muche of theyr false flatery I can well alowe that mē shoulde commend keping them within the bondes of truth such thinges as they see prayse worthy in other men to geue them the greater courage to thencrease ther●f for men kepe styll in that poynte one condicion of chyldren that prayse mus●e prycke them forthe but better it were to doe well and looke for none Howbeit they that can not finde in theyr hearte to cōmende an other mannes good dede shewe them selfe eyther enuious or els of nature very colde dull But out of questiō he that putteth his pleasure in the prayse of the peo●le hath but a fond fantasy For if his fynger doe but ake of an hote blayne● a great mayny of mens mouthes blo●ing out his prayse wil scantly doe hym among them al● halfe so much ●ase as to haue one litle boy● to blowe vpon his fynger ¶ The .xi. Chapter ¶ The litle commoditie that men haue o●●ovvme● offices and autor●tie if they desyre them but for the●r vvorldly co●modi●ie LEt vs nowe consider in likewise what greate worldly wealth aryseth vnto mē by great offices tow●●s and autoritie to those worldly disposed people I say that desyer● thē for no better purpose For of them that desyer them for better we shall speake after anon The greate thyng that they chiefe like al therin● is ●hat they may beare a rule commaund and controlled other men and liue vncōmaunded and vncontrolled themself● yet this commoditie toke I so litle hede of that I neuer was ware it was so great till a good frēd of ours merely told me once that his wife once in a great angre taught it him For whā her husband had no lust to growe greatly v●ward in the world nor neyther would labour for office of autoritie ouer that forsoke a right worshipful rowme whē it was offered him she fell in hand with him he told me● al to rat●d him asked him what wil you doe wi●l you sit still by the fyre make goslynges in the asshes with a sticks as children doe would god I wer a man loke what I would doe Why wife ꝙ her husband what woulde you doe what by god goe foreward with the best of thē For as my mother was wont to say god haue mercy on her soule It is better to rule thē to be ruled And therfore by god I would not I warrant you be so foolish to be ruled where I might rule By my trueth wife ꝙ her hus●and in this I dare saye you say trueth For I neuer foūd you willing to be ruled yet Vincent Wel vncle I wote where you be wel inough She is in dede a stoute maister woman in good fayth for ought that I can see euen that same womannish mind of hers is that greatest commoditie that men reckon vpon in ●owmes offices of autoritie Anthony By my trouth me thinkeeth very fewe there are of them that attayn any great commoditie therein For fyrste there is in euery kyngdome but one that can haue an office of suche authoritie that no manne may commaunde hym or controll hym None officer can there stand in that case but the Kynge hymselfe whiche onelye vncont●olled or commaunded maye controlle and commaunde all Nowe of all the rem●aunt eche is vnder hym and yet beside him almoste euery one is vnder moe commaunders and controllers too than one and some man that is in a great office commaūdeth fewer thinges and lesse labour to many men that are vnder him thā some one that is ouer him cōmaundeth him alone ☞ Vincent Yet it doth them good vncle that men must make curtesy to them and salute them with reuerēce and stand bare headed b●fore them or to some of them knele peraduenture too Anthony Wel Cosin in some part they doe but playe at gl●ke receiue reuerence and to theyr cost paye honor agayn therfore For except as I sayd onely a king the greatest in autoritie vnder hym receyueth not so muche reuerence of no man as accordyng to reason himselfe doeth honour to him Nor .xx. mennes curtesies doe him not so muche pleasure as hys owne once kneling doeth him payne if his knee happe to be sore And I wi●t once a greate o●ficer of the Kynges saye and in good fayth I wene he sayd but as he thought that twentie men standing barehead before him kept not his head halfe so warme as to kepe on hys owne cappe Nor he neuer toke so muche ease with theyr being barehead before him as he caught once griefe with a cough that came vpon hym by standyng barehead long before the Kyng But let it be that these commodities be somewhat suche as they be yet than considre whither that any incommodities be so ioined therwith that a manne were almost as good lacke both as haue both Goeth all thyng euermore as euerye one of them woulde haue it that were as harde as to please all the people at once with one weather whyle in one howse the husband woulde haue fayer weather for his corne and his wyfe woulde haue rayne for her leekes So while they that are
in aucthoryte be not al euermore of one minde But sometime variance amonge them● eyther for the respecte of profyite or for contencion of rule or for mayntenaunce of matters sūdry partes for theyr sundry friendes It can not be that both the partes can haue theyr owne mynde nor often are they content which see theyr conclusion quaile but x. times they take the missing of theyr mynde more dyspleasauntly than other poore men doe And thys goeth not onelye to men of meane authoritie but vnto the very greatest The princes thēself can not haue you wote well al theyr wyll for howe were it possible while eche of them almost would if he myght be lord ouer al the remnaunte Than many men vnder theyr princes in authoritie are in the case that prieuy malice and enuie many beare them in hearte falselye speake them fayre and prayse them wyth their mouthes which when there happeth any greate fal vnto them baule and barke and byte vpon them lyke dogges Finally the cost charge the daunger perill of warre wherin theyr parte is more than a poore mannes is syth the matter more dependeth vpō them and many a poore plough man maye sitte styll by the fyre while they muste ryse and walke and somtime theyr authoritie falleth by the chaunge of theyr maisters mynde and of that see we dayly in one place or other ensamples such so many that the parable of the Philosopher can lacke no testimony which likened y● seruantes of greate princes vnto the coumptors with which men doe cast a coumpt For like as the countor y● stādeth sometime for a farthing is sodeynly set vp standeth for a. M. poūde after as sone set down efte sone beneath to stand for a farthing againe So fareth it loe sometime wyth those that seeke the waye to rise growe vp in au●thoritie by the fauour of greate princes that as they rise vp high so fal they downe againe as lowe Howebeit though a mā escape al such aduētures abide in great authoritie til he dye● yet thā at the leaste wise euery mā mu●t leaue it at the last that whiche we cal at least hath no very long time to it Let a mā reckē his yeres that are passed of hys age ere euer he can geat vp alofte let him whē he hath it firste in his fiste recken howe longe he shal be like to lyue after and I weene that th●n the mo●● parte shal haue litle cause to reioyce they shal see the time likely to be so short that theyr honour autoriti● by nature shal endure beside the manifolde chaunces wherby they maye lese it more soone And than when they see that they must nedes leaue it the thing which they dyd much more set theyr heart vpō than euer they had reasonable cause what sorowe ●hey take therfore that shal I not nede to tell you And thus it semeth vnto me Cosin in good faith that sith in the hauing the profite is not great the displeasures neyther small nor fewe and of the lesing so many sundry chaūces that by no meane a mā can kepe it longe that to parte there frō is suche a paynefull gri●fe I can see no very great cause for which as an high worldly cōmoditie men should greatly desier it The .xii. Chapter ¶ That these outvvard goode desired but for vvordly vvelth be not onely litle good for the body but ●re alsō much harme for the soule ANd ●hus farre haue we considered hither to● in these outward goodes that are called the giftes of fortune no farther but the slender commoditie that worldely minded men haue by them But nowe if we consider farther what harme to the soule they take by them the desier thē but onely for the wretched welth of this worke Thā shall we wel perceiue howe farre more happy is he that wel leseth thē than he that cuil findeth them These thinges though they be such as are of theyr owne nature indifferent that is to witte of them self thinges neyther good nor badde but are matter that maye serue to the tone or the tother ●fter as mē wyl vse them yet nede we litle to doubte it but that they that desier them but for theyr worldely pleasure for no farther godly purpose the deui● shal soone turne them frō thinges indifferēt vnto thē and make them thinges verye nought For though that they be indifferent of theyr nature yet can not the vse of thē lightly stand indifferent but determinately muste eyther be good or badde And therefore he that desireth thē but for worldly pleasure desyreth thē not for any good And for better purpose thā he ●esireth them to better vse is he not likely to put thē and therefore not vnto good but consequentlye to nought As for ensample first consider it in riches he ●hat longeth for them as for thynges of temporall commodytie and not for anye godlye purpose what good they shall doe hym Saint Paule declareth where he writeth vnto Timothe Qui volunt diuites fieri incidunt in temptacionē in laqucum di●boli des●deria mu●ta inutilia noxia que ●ergūt homines in interi●ū penditionem They that long to be rich fal into tēptaciō and into the grinne of the deuil and into many desiers vnprofitable and noyous which droune men into death and into perdicion And the holy scripture sayth also in the .xxi. Chapter of the Prouerbes Qui ●ongrega● thesauros inpingetur in laqueus mortis He that gathereth treasures shal be showued into the grinnes of death so that where as by the mouth of S. Paule god saith that they shal fall into the deuils grinne he sayth in the tother place that they shall be pusshed or showued in by violence of trouth whyle a man desireth riches not for any good godlye purpose but for onelye welth it must nedes be that he shal haue litle cōscience in the geatting but by all euil wayes than he can inuente shall laboure to geatte them and than shall he eyther nigardly heape them vp together which is you wote wel damnable or wastfullye missespende them aboute worldly pompe pride and glotony wyth occasion of many sinnes moe and that is yet much more damnable As for fame and glory desyred but for worldly pleasure doth vnto the soule inestimable harme For that setteth mennes heartes vpon highe deuyces and desiers of suche thynges as are immoderate and outragious by help of false flatterers puffe vp a mā in pride make a bryttel man lately made of earthe that shall agayne shortely be layde ful lowe in earth there lye and rotte● and turne againe into earth take hym selfe in the meane tyme for a god here vpon the earth and weene to wynne him selfe to be lorde of al the earth This maketh battelles betwene these greate princes with much trouble to much people greate e●fusiō of bloud one Kinge to looke to raygne in fyue realmes that
heare it hearken it but as they would an ydle tale rather for a pastime or for maner sake thā for any substancial entēt or purpose to folow good aduertisement and take any frute therby But verely if we would not onely laye our eare but also our hearte therto considre that the saying of our sauiour Christe is not a Poetes fable nor an harpers song but the verye holy woord of almighty god himselfe we would wel we might be full sore ashamed in our self ful sory to when we felt in our affeccion those wordes to haue in our heart●s no more strength and wayght but that we remayn still of thesame dull mynde as we did before we hearde them This maner of ours in whose breastes the great good counsaile of God no better setleth nor taketh no better roote may wel declare vs that the thornes the bryers and brambles of our worldly substaunce growe so thicke spring vp so high in the ground of our hertes that they strangle as the gospell sayeth the woorde of God that was sowen therein And therfore is god very good lord vnto vs when he causeth like a good husband man his folke to come afield for the persecutors be his folke to this purpose and with their hookes their stocking yrons grubbe vp these wicked wedes busshes of our earthly substance cary them quite awaye from vs that the woorde of God sowen in oure heartes may haue rowme therin and a glad rounde aboute for the warmesome of grace to come to it and make it growe For surelye these woordes of our Sauiour shal we finde full true Vbi thesaurus tuus ibi est et cortuum Where as thy treasure is there is also thy heart If we lay vp our treasure in earth in earth shal be our herts Yf we send our treasure into heauen in heauen shall we haue our hertes And surely the greatest coumfort that any man maye haue in this tribulacion is to haue his heart in heauē If thy heart wer in dede out of this world and in heauen al the kyndes of tormente that al this world could deuise could put thē to no pain here Let vs thē send our hertes hēce thither in such maner as we may by sending thither our worldly substaunce hence please god And let vs neuer doubte it but we shal that once done finde our heartes so conuersant in heauen with the glad consideraciō of our folowing the gracious counsayle of Chri●t that the coumfort of his holy spirite inspired vs therfore shal mitigate minishe asswage in a maner quenche the great furious feruour of the payn that we shal happe to haue by his louing sufferaunce for our farther merite in our tribulaciō And therfore like as if we saw that we should be within a while drieuen out of this land and fayn to flee into another we would wene that man wer mad whiche would not be content to forbeare his goodes here for the while and sende them into that lande before him where he sawe that he shoulde liue al the remnaunt of his life So maye we verely thinke yet oure selfe muche more madde seeyng that we be sure it can not be long ere we shal be sent spyte of our teeth oute of this world if the feare of a litle lacke or the loue to see our goodes here about vs and the lothnes to part from them for this litle while which we may kepe thē here shal be able to let vs from that sure sendyng them before vs into the tother worlde in which wee may be sure to liue wealthely with them if we sende them thither or els shortly leaue them here behinde vs and thā stād in great ieopardy there to liue wretches for euer ¶ Vincent In good faythe vncle me thinke that concerning the losse of these outward thinges these cōsideracions are so sufficiēt comfortes y● for my own part saue onely grace well to remembre thē I woulde me thinke desyre no more ¶ The .xvi. Chapter ¶ Another comfort and courage agaynst the losse of vvorldly substaunce MUche lesse then this may serue Cosin with calling trusting vpon gods helpe without which muche more than this cannot serue But the feruour of the christen fayth so sore fainteth now adaies and decayeth coming from hote vnto leuke warme from leuke warme almost to kaye cold that men must nowe be fayne as at a fire that is almost out to lay many drye stickes therto and vse much blowing thereat● but els woulde I wene by my trouth y● vnto a warme faithful man one thing alone wherof we spake yet no word wer comfort ynough in this kind of persecu●ion agaynste the losse of all goodes ¶ Vincent What thing may that be vncle ¶ Anthony In good fayth Cosin euen the bare remēbraunce of the pouertie that our Sauior willingly suffered for vs. For I verely suppose that if there wer a great king that had so tēder loue to a seruāt of his that he had to helpe him out of daunger forsaken left of al his worldly welth royaltie become poore nedy for his sake the seruāt couldscant be found that wer of such an vnkind villayn corage that if himselfe came after to some substance would not with better wil lese it al ●gain than shamefully to forsake such a maister And therfore as I say I doe verely suppose that if we woulde wel remēbre in wardly considre the great goodnes of our sauiour Christ toward vs not yet being hys poore siuful seruantes but rather his aduersaries hys enemies And what welth of thys worlde that he willinglye forsoke for our sake being in dede vniuersal king therof so hauing the power in hys own hād● to haue vsed it if he had woulde in stede whereof to make vs ryche in heauē he liued here in nedines pouertie al his lyfe nether would haue autoritie nor kepe netherlādes nor goodes The depe cōsideracion earne●● aduisemēt of this one point alone wer able to make ani kind christē man or womā wel contēt rather for his sake again to geue vp al that euer god hath lent them lent thē hath he al that euer they haue than vnkindly vnfaithfully to forsake hym And him they forsake if that for feare ●hey forsake the confession of his christen faith And therfor● to finish this pece wi●hal concerning y● drede of lesing our outward worldly goodes let vs consider the sl●ndre cōmoditie y● they bring with what labor they be b●ught how litle while they abyde with whōsoeuer they be lōgest what payn theyr pleasure is mingled withal what harme the loue of them doth vnto the soule what losse is in y● keping Christes fayth refused for thē what winning in the losse if we lese thē for gods sake how muche more profitable they be wel geuen than euil kept And finally what vnkindnes it wer if we would not rather forsake thē for Christes sake thā vnfaythfully
forsake Christ for them which while he liued for our sake forsoke al the world beside the suffring of shameful painful death whereof we shall speake after If we these thinges I say wil cōsider wel wil pray god with his holy hand to print thē in our heartes wil abyde and dwel styll in the hope of his helpe hys trueth shal as the prophete sayth so cōpasse vs about with a pauice y● we shall not nede to bee afrayd ab incursu et demonio meridiano of this incursion of this midde day deuil thys open plain persecucion of the Turke● for any losse that we can take by the bereuing from vs of our wretched worldlye goodes for whose shorte smal pleasure in thys life forborne we shal be with heauenly sub●taun●e euerlastinglye recompensed of God in ioyful blisse and glorye ¶ The .xvii. Chapter Of bodely payn and that a man hath not cause to take discōfort in persecucion though he fele himselfe in an horror at the thistking vpon the bodely payne ¶ Vincent FOrsoth vncle as for these outward goodes you haue so far●orth saide that albeit no man cā be sure what strength he shal haue or how faint howe feble he may hap to find himself whē he shal come to the point therfore I can make no warrātise of my selfe seing that S Peter so sodainly fainted at a womās word so cowardly forsoke his maister for whom he had so boldl● fought w̄tin so few houres afore And by that fal in forsakīg wel perceued that h● had been rash in his promise and was wel woorthy to take a fall for puttyng so full trust in himselfe yet in good fayth me thinketh nowe and God shall I trust helpe me too kepe this thought stil that if the Turke should take al that I haue vnto mi very shyrt except I forsake my fayth offre it me al again with .v. times asmuch therto to fal into his secte I would not once sticke thereat rather to forsake it euery whit thē of Christes holy faith to forsake any one poynt But surely good vncle whē I bethinke me farther on the griefe the payne that may turne vnto my flesh here fynd I that feare that forseth my heart to trēble Anthony Neither haue I cause to meruayle therof nor you Cosin cause to be dismayde therefore The great horror feare that our Sauiour had in his own flesh agaynst his paynful passiō maketh me litle to meruayl may wel make you take that comfort to that for no such maner of gendring felt in your sēsual partes the flesh shrinketh at the meditacion of payne and death youre reason shal geue ouer but resist it and manlye maister it and though you woulde fayne flee from the payneful death and be loth to come thereto yet may the meditacion of his great grieuous agony moue you him selfe shall if you so desyre him not fayle to worke with you therin geat and geue you the grace that you shal submit and conforme your will therin vnto his as he did his vnto hys father shal therupon be so cōforted with the secret inward inspiracion of his holy sprite as he was with the personal presence of that Angell that after his agony came comforted him that you shall as his true disciple folow hym and with good will without grudge doe as he did and take your crosse of pain passion vpon your backe and dye for the trueth with him therby raigne with him crouned in eternal glory And this I say to geue you warning of the thyng tha● is truth to th entent whan a man feleth such an horror of death in his heart he should not therby stand in outragious feare that he were fallyng for many such men standeth for al that feare full fast And finally better abydeth the brunte when god is so good vnto hym as to bryng hym therto and encourage hym therin thā doth some other that in the beginning feleth no feare at al and yet may it be and most oftē so it is for god hauing many mansions and all wonderful welthfull in his fathers house exalteth not eueri good mā vp to the glory of a martyr but foreseing their infirmitie that though they be of good wyll before and peraduenture of right good courage to would yet play S. Peter if they wer brought to the poynt and therby bryng theyr soules into the perill of eternall damnacion He prouideth otherwyse for them before they come thereat and eyther findeth away that men shal not haue the mynd to lay any handes vpon them as he founde for his di●ciples whē hymself was willingly takē or that if they set hand on thē they shal haue no power to holde thē as he founde for S. Iohn theuangelist whiche lette his sheete fall from hym whereupon they caught holde and so stedde hymselfe naked awaye and scaped fro them or thoughe they hold him and bryng him to prison to yet god sometyme deliuereth them thence as he did S. Peter and sometyme he taketh them to him out of the pryson into heauen and fuffereth them not to come to their torment at all as he hath done by many a good holy man And some he suffereth to be brought into the tormente and yet he suffereth them not to dye therin but lyue many yeares after and dye their natural death as he did S. Iohn theuangelist and by mani an other moe as we maye well see bothe in sundrye stories and in the Epistles of Saincte Ciprian also And therefore whiche waie GOD wyll take with vs we can not tell but surelye if we be true Christian men this can we wel tell that withoute anye bolde warrantise of oure selfe or foolishe truste in oure strength we be bound vpon pain of damnacion that we be not of the contrarye mynde but that we wyll wyth hys helpe how lothe so euer we fele oure fleshe thereto rather yet than forsake hym or hys fayth afore the worlde whyche if we dooe he hath promysed to forsake vs afore hys father and all the holy coumpanye of heauen Rather I saye than we would so dooe we would with his helpe endure and sustayn for his sake all the tormentrye that the deuyll with all hys faithlesse tormentors in thys world would deuyse And then when we be of thys mynde and submytte oure wyll vnto hys and call and praie for hys grace we can tell well ynough that he will neuer suffre them to putte more vpon vs than his grace wyll make vs all to beare but wyll also wyth theyr temptacion prouyde vs for a sure waye for Fidelis deus sayth Saynct Paule Qui non patitur vos tentari supra id quod potestis sed dat etiam cum temptatione prouentum GOD is sayth the Apostle faythfull whiche suffereth you not to be tempted aboue that you maye beare but geueth also with the temptacyon a waye oute For eyther as I sayde he will keepe vs oute of