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master_n	earl_n	henry_n	lord_n	6,615	5	5.0118	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56468	A conference about the next succession to the crown of England divided into two parts : the first containeth the discourse of a civil lawyer, how and in what manner propinquity of bloud is to be preferred : the second containeth the speech of a temporal lawyer about the particular titles of all such as do, or may, pretend (within England or without) to the next succession : whereunto is also added a new and perfect arbor and genealogy of the descents of all the kings and princes of England, from the Conquest to the present day, whereby each mans pretence is made more plain ... / published by R. Doleman.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.; Allen, William, 1532-1594.; Englefield, Francis, Sir, d. 1596?	1681 (1681)	Wing P568; ESTC R36629	283,893	409

both of the Blood Royal they are thought to have ab●sed themselves much by their Marriages with the two Knights Daughters Sir Richard Rogers and Sir John Spenser though otherwise both of them very worshipful but not their Matches in respect of their Kindred with the Crown yet doth the Alliance of S. John Spenser seem to bring many more Friends with it than that of Sir Richard Rogers by reason of the other Daughters of Sir John well married also to Persons of importance as namely the one to Sir George Carey Governour of the Isle of Wight who bringeth in also the Lord Hunsdon his Father Captain of Barwick two of the most important pieces that England hath And for that the said Lord Hunsdon and the Lady Knowles deceased were Brother and Sister and both of them Children to the Lady Mary Bullen Elder Sister to Queen Anne hereof it cometh that this Alliance with Sir George Carey may draw after it also the said House of Knowles who are many and of much importance as also it may do the Husbands of the other Daughters of Sir John Spencer with their adherents and followers which are neither few nor feeble all which wanteth in the Marriage of the Lord Beacham Another difference also in the ability of these two Lords is that the House of Seymers in State and Title of Nobility is much younger than the House of Stanleys for that Edward Seymer late Earl of Hartford and after Duke of Somerset was the first beginner thereof who being cut off together with his Brother the Admiral so soon as they were could not so settle the said House especially in the Alliance with the residue of the Nobility as otherwise they would and might have done But now as it remaineth I do not remember any Alliance of that House of any great moment except it be the Children of Sir Henry Seymer of Hampshire and of Sir Edward S●ym●r of Bery Pomery in Devonshire if he have any and of Sir John Smith of Essex whose Mother was Sister to the late Duke of Somerset or finally the Alliance that the late Marriage of the Earl of Hartford with the Lady Frances Howard may bring with it which cannot be much for so great a purpose as we talk of But the Earl of Darby on the other side is very strongly and honourably allied both by Father and Mother for by his Father not to speak of the Stanleys which are many and of good Power and one of them matched in the House of Northumberland his said Father the old Earl had three Sisters all well married and all have left Children and Heirs of the Houses wherein they were married for the elder was married first to the Lord Sturton and after to Sir John Arundel and of both Houses hath l●s● H●irs-male The second Sister was married to the Lord Mosley by whom she hath left the Lord that now is who in like manner hath matched with the Heir of the Lord Montegle who is likewise a Stanley And finally the third Sister was married to Sir Nicholas Poynes of Gloc●stershire and by him had a Son and Heir that yet liveth And this by his Fathers side but no less alliance hath this Earl also by the side of his Mother who being Daughter of George Clifford Earl of Cumberland by Lady Eleanor Niece of King Henry the VII the said Lord George had afterward by a second Wife that was Daughter of the Lord Dacres of the North both the Earl of Cumberland that now is and the Lady Wharton who hereby are Brother and Sister of the half Blood to the said Countess of Darby and the Dacr●s are their Uncles Besides all this the States and Possessions of the two foresaid Lords are far different for the purpose pretended for that the State of the Earl of Hartford is far inferior both for greatness situation wealth multitude of Subjects and the like for of that of the Stanleys doth depend the most part of the Shires of Lancaster and Chester and a good part of the North of Wales at least wise by way of observance and affection as also the Isle of M●n is their own and Ireland and Scotland is not far off where friendship perhaps in such a case might be offered and finally in this point of ability great oddes is there seen between the Lords As for their Religion I cannot determine what difference there is or may be between them The Lord Beacham by education is presumed to be a Protestant albeit some hold that his Father and Father in Law be more inclined towards the Puritans The Earl of Darby's Religion is held to be more doubtful so as some do think him to be of all three Religions and others of none and these again are divided in judgments about the event hereof for that some do imagine that this opinion of him may do him good for that all sides hereby may perhaps conceive hope of him but others do perswade themselves that it will do him hurt for that no side indeed will esteem or trust him so as all these matters with their events and consequences do remain uncertain But now will I pass to speak of the House of Clarence the chief Persons whereof and most eminent at this day are the Earl of Huntington and his Brethren the Hastings for that the Pooles and Barringtons are of far meaner condition and authority albeit the other also I mean the House of Hastings doth not seem to be of any great alliance for that albeit the old Earl of Huntington this Earl's Father had two Brethren the one Sir Thomas Hastings that married one of the Lord Henry Pooles Daughters named Montagne that was put to death which Daughter was Sister to this Earl's Mother and the other named Sir Edward Hastings was made Lord of Lowghborow by Queen Mary to whom he was first Master of the Horse and afterwards Lord Chamberlain neither of them having left issue and this is all I remember by his Fathers side except it be his own Brethren as hath been said of which Sir George Hastings is the chiefest By his Mothers side he hath only the Pooles whose Power as it is not great so what it is is rather like to be against him than with him partly for their difference from him in Religion and partly for preferment of their own Title upon the reasons before alledged By his own Marriage with the Daughter of the late Duke of Northumberland and Sister to the late Earls of Leicester and Warwick he was like to have drawn a very great and strong alliance if the said two Earls had lived and especially Sir Philip Sidney who was born of the other Sister of the present Countess of Huntington and his own Sister was married to the Earl of Pembroke that now is and himself to the Daughter of Sir Francis Walsingham Chief Secretary of the State by all which means and by all the affection and

A CONFERENCE About the Next SUCCESSION TO THE Crown of England Divided into Two Parts The First containeth The Discourse of a Civil Lawyer how and in what manner Propinquity of Bloud is to be preferred The Second containeth The Speech of a Temporal Lawyer about the particular Titles of all such as do or may pretend within England or without to the next Succession Whereunto is also added A New and Perfect Arbor and Genealogy of the Descents of all the Kings and Princes of England from the Conquest unto this day whereby each mans Pretence is made more plain Dedicated to the Right Honourable the Earl of Essex one of Her Majesties Privy-Council and of the Noble Order of the Garter Published by R. Doleman Re-printed at N. with License MDCLXXXI The sum of both Parts more in particular THE first declareth by many Proofs and Arguments That the next Propinquity or Ancestry of Bloud alone though it were certainly known yet it is not sufficient to be admitted to a Crown without other Conditions and Circumstances requisite be found also in the person pretendent THE second examineth the Titles and Pretensions of all such as may have Claim or Action to the Crown of England at this day what may be said for them and what against them And in the end though he leave the matter extreme doubtful as touching the best right yet he giveth certain Conjectures about some persons that are likest to prevail To the Right Right Honourable the Earl of Essex one of Her Majesties Privy Council TWo principal Causes among others Right Honourable are wont to invite men to dedicate any Book or Treatise to a Person in Authority The one Private Duty and Obligation the other Publick Utility in respect that the Master may concern that Person for the Common Good And to confess the truth both of these jointly have moved me at this time to present unto your Honour above others the two Books ensuing which contain a Conference had in Holland not long since ●●out the Pretences and Pretenders to the Crown of England as your Honour shall perceive by the Preface of each Book and therefore hereof I shall need say no more but only declare the aforesaid two Causes of this Dedication First then I say that my particular obligation towards your Honours Person riseth partly of good Turns and Benefits received by some Friends of mine at your Lordships hands in your last Voyage and Exploits in France but principally of far greater Favours receiv'd from your Noble Ancestors I mean not only your Father whose untimely death was to England no small Wound but of your Grand-father also that worthy Knight Sir Walter Deverux who though he lived not to come to those Titles of Honour whereunto he was born yet left he behind him so rare a memory for his excellent Parts of Learning Wit Feature of Body Courtesy and other such Noble Commendations as none in England perhaps the like in our time wherein also hath lived your Honours Great Grandfather Sir Henry Deverux Visconde Ferys well remembred yet by divers of my said Friends obliged unto him as also recorded by our English Histories as well for his Merits and Worthiness as in like manner for his Match with the Heir of the most Famous and Noble House of the Bourchers Earls of Essex whereof also your Honour is known to be descended and to hold at this day as well their Nobility of Blood as Dignity of Title and this shall serve in this place for my particular obligation whereof perhaps hereafter upon other occasion I may give further relation and testimony to the World in token of my Gratitude But for the second Point of Publick Vtility I thought no man more fit than your Honour to dedicate these two Books unto which treat of the Succession to the Crown of England for that no man is in more high and eminent Place or Dignity at this day in our Realm than your self whether we respect your Nobility or Calling or Favour with your Prince or high Liking of the People and consequently no man like to have a greater part or sway in deciding of this great Affair when time shall come for that determination then your Honour and those that will assist you and are likest to follow your Fame and Fortune And for that it is not convenient for your Honour to be unskilful in a matter which concerneth your Person and the whole Realm so much as this doth and finding this Conference had by two Learned Lawyers to handle the Question very pithily and exactly and yet with much Modesty and without offence of any and with particular affection and devotion to Her Majesty and with special care of Her Safety I thought not expedient to let it lie unpublished as also judged that no Hands were fitter to receive the same nor any Protection more secure or plausible than that of your Honour whom God long preserve in all true Honour and Felicity to the Comfort of Your Lordships Faithful Servants and Clients and to the Publick Benefit of your Countrey From my Chamber in Amsterdam this last of December 1593. Your Honours most Affectionate R. DOLEMAN The CONTENTS of the first PART THe Preface containing the occasion of this Treatise with the subject purpose and parts thereof That Succession to government by nearness of bloud is not by Law of Nature or Divine but only by humane and positive Laws of every paticular Commonwealth and consequently may upon just causes be altered by the same Chap. 1. fol. 1. Of the particular form of Monarchies and Kingdoms and the different Laws whereby they are to be obtained holden and governed in divers Countries according as each Commonwealth hath chosen and established Chap. 2. f. 12. Of the great reverence and respect due to Kings and yet how divers of them have been lawfully chastised by their common-wealths for their misgovernment and of the good and prosperous success that God commonly hath given to the same and much more to the putting back of an unworthy pretender Chap. 3. f. 30. Wherein consisteth principally the lawfulness of proceeding against Princes which in the former chapter is mentioned what interest Princes have in their subjects goods or lives how Oaths do bind or may be broken by subjects towards their Princes and finally the difference between a good King and a Tyrant Chap. 4. f. 51. Of the Coronation of Princes and manner of their admitting to their authority and the Oaths which they do make in the same unto the Commonwealth for their good government Chap. 5. f. 66. What is due to onely succession by Birth and what interest or right an Heir apparent hath to the Crown before he is Crowned or admitted by the Commonweath and how justly he may be put back if he have not the parts requisite Chap. 6. f. 98. How the next in succession by propinquity of bloud have oftentimes been put back by the Commonwealth and others further off admitted

rather that his Law is his own will as by the Words of the Prophet may appear and much less may the Commonwealth Chastise or Deprive him for exceeding the Limits of Law or doing his will seeing that herein this place God doth foretel that Princes oftentimes shall commit excesses and injuries and yet doth he not therefore will them to Chasten or Depose them for the same but rather insinuateth that they must take it patiently for their Sins and cry to God for remedy and help therein though he do not at the first hearken to them or grant their redress Hitherto the Temporal Lawyer Whereunto answered the Civilian that he confessed that Belloy and others his Companions that Wrote in flattery of Princes in these our days did not only affirm these things that the Temporal Lawyer had aledged and that Princes were Lawless and Subject to no accompt reason or correction whatsoever they did but also which is yet more absurd and pernicious to all Commonwealths that all Goods Chattels Possessions and whatsoever else commodities Temporal of the Commonwealth are properly the Kings and that their Subjects have only the use thereof without any propriety at all so as when the King he may take it from them by right without injustice or injury which assertions do overthrow wholly the very nature and substance of a Commonwealth it self For first to say that a King is Subject to no Law or Limitation at all but may do what he will is against all that I have alledged before of the very Institution of a Commonwealth which was to live together in Justice and Order and as I shewed out of Cicero speaking of the first Kings Justicia fruendae causa bene morati Reges olim sunt constituti For enjoying of Justice were Kings appointed in old time that were of good life but if they be bound to no Justice at all but must be born with and obeyed be they never so Wicked then is this end and butt of the Commonvvealth and of all Royal Authority utterly frustrate Then may we set up publick Murderers Ravishers Thieves and Spoylers to devour us in stead of a King and Governours to defend us for such indeed are Kings that follow no Law but Passion and Sensuality and do commit injustice by their publick Authority And then finally were all those Kings before mentioned both of the Jews Gentiles and Christians unlawfully deprived and their Successors unlawfully put up in their places and consequently all Princes living in Christianity at this day who are descended of them are intruders and no Lawful Princes By the second saying also that all Temporalities are properly the Princes and that Subjects have only the use thereof without any interest of their own no less Absurdities do follow then of the former assertion For that first it is against the very first principle and foundation of our Civil Law which at the first entrance and beginning maketh this division of goods That some are common by nature to all Men as the Air the Sea and the like others are publick to all of one City or Countrey but yet not common to all in general as Rivers Ports and other such Some are of the Community of a City or Commonwealth but yet not common to every particular Person of that City as common Rents Theaters the publick Houses and the like Some are of none nor properly of any mans goods as Churches and sacred Things And some are proper to particular Men as those which every Man possesseth of his own Which division of Justinian the Emperour and his most learned Lawyers is not good if the Prince be Lord Proprietor of all Nay he that made this Division being Emperour did great injury also to himself in assigning that to others which by the opinion of Belloy and his Fellows was properly and truly his own in that he was Emperour and Lord of the World Besides all this so absurd a saying is this as it overthroweth the whole nature of a Common-wealth it self and maketh all Subjects to be but very slaves For that Slaves and Bond men as Aristotle saith in this do differ from Free-men that Slaves have only the use of things without Property or Interest and cannot acquire or get to themselves any Dominion or true Right in any thing for that whatsoever they do get accrueth to their Master and not to themselves And for that the condition of an Ox or an Ass is the very same in respect of a poor man that hath no Slave for that the Ox or Ass getteth nothing to himself but only to his Master and can be Lord of nothing of that for which he laboureth For this cause also wittily said Aristotle That Bos aut Asinus pauperi Agricolae pro servo est an Ox or an Ass is to a poor Husbandman instead of a Bond-man And so seeing that Belloy will needs have the state and condition of all Subjects to be like unto this in respect of their Prince and that they have nothing in propriety but only the use and that all Dominion is properly the Prince's What doth the other then make all Subjects not only Slaves but also Oxen and Asses and pecora campi Last of all for I will not over-load you with reasons in a matter so evident if all Subjects Goods be properly the Kings why then was Ahab and Jezebel King and Queen of Israel so reprehended by Elisha and so punished by God for taking away Naboth's Vineyard seeing they took but that which was their own Nay why was not Naboth acoused of Iniquity Rebellion and Treason for that he did not yield up presently his Vineyard when his Sovereigns demanded the same seeing it was not his but theirs Why do the Kings of England France and Spain ask money of their Subjects in Parliaments if they might take it as their own Why are those Contributions termed by the Names of Subsidies Helps Benevolences Lones Prests Contributions and the like if all be due and not voluntary on the Subject's part How have Parliaments oftentimes denied to their Princes such helps as they demanded Why are there Judges appointed to determine matter of Suits and Pleas between the Prince and his Subjects if all be his and the Subject have nothing of his own And last of all why doth the Canon-law which is part also of my profession and received in most Countries of the World so straitly inhibit all Princes upon pain of Excommunication to impose new Impositions and Taxes upon their people without great consideration and necessity and free consent of the Givers if all be the Princes and nothing of the Subjects Nay why be all Princes generally at this day prohibited to alienate any thing of their own Crown without consent of their people if they only be Lords of all and the people have interest in nothing And hereby also we may gather what the Prophet Samuel