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A12793 The sale of salt. Or The seasoning of soules Namely such, as for whom the chapmen here doe come, and whom the author, which taketh the name of a salter, is willing, what in him lieth, to season with the salt of the Word, leauing the successe to the Lord, without whose blessing in such works we can do nothing. Written by Iohn Spicer, minister of the word of God at Leckhamsteed in the county of Buckingham. Spicer, John. 1611 (1611) STC 23101; ESTC S117790 175,913 412

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be more carefull to possesse it he speaketh by way of supposition supposing that which cannot bee saying that I may vtter it Paraphrastically If I had all faith not onely that faith by which men worke miracles but also if it were possible it might bee separated from charity that faith by which wee apprehend Christ Iesus our iustification and righteousnesse and had it without loue 1. Cor. 13.4 5 6 7 8 it would profite me nothing towards long suffering bountifulnesse the audiding of enuy boasting disdaining c. no more then either féeding of the poore with all my goods doth profite me if I do it for vaine glory not of compassion pittiyng the miserable estate of the néedy or yéelding my body to the fire not for loue of truth which cannot but bee in him that hath the iustifying faith but because I would bee reckoned in the number of the Martyrs if I say it were possible to haue all kind of faith and had not loue I were nothing Thus you sée a man might make a shift to say somthing to such as will néeds haue all faith to comprehend the iustifying faith also but I like S. Chrysostomes exposition best Chap. But if men been so froward that they will not admit his exposition then some other must bee framed and that of yours would perhaps be the better liked if such as so earnestly vrge Omnem fidem all faith if in some other place the same Apostle doth presuppose a thing vnpossible Salt In the 1. to the Galath he saith Though wee that is Gal. 8. ● if it were possible that we or an Angell from Heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which wee haue preached let him be accursed Chap. I pray tell me what you doe note in those words Though wee or an Angell c. Salt You shall heare what Saint Austin expounding that Chapter saith the truth is to be beloued for it selfe not for the man or Angell by whom it is set forth for he that loueth it propter annuntiatores for their sakes which shew it may also loue lyes if perhaps they will bring any of their owne Chap. I perceiue this Father would haue truth to be liked and lyes to be loathed for themselues and not to be receiued or refused according as wee like or dislike the men that bring them Salt True yet this fault is too common to heare or not heare the Sermons to read or not reade the writings to receiue or not receiue the Sacraments at the hands of men but as we like them it is great weaknesse that the faults of men but greater weaknes that the coates and colours should driue vs from hearing and receiuing that which in it selfe is sound and faultlesse holsome and harmelesse the word of God is most pure the Sacraments full of comfort though we be sinfull men and vnworthy to minister such holy things The teacher and hearer are to pray one for another that the one may minister the other receiue in some measure worthily and as is fit for their calling lest both smart for their negligence herein Chap. Some say where teachers vary it is hard for the vnlearned to iudge what Doctrine is to be followed and which Teacher is true Salt None are allowed to set forth any doctrine that is not warranted in the word of God if any doe hee which is called the truth sheweth how we shall know the true teacher in these words If any man will do his will Chap. Doth the meane the Popes will Salt I maruaile why you interrupt me I am sure you are not so ignorant to thinke there were Popes in our Sauiours time He meaneth by his will his fathers will Ioh. 7.16 that sent him as appeareth by the verse aforegoing Chap. Say on then Salt If any man will know his will hee shall know the doctrine whether it bee of God or whether I speake of my selfe He that speaketh of himselfe seeketh his owne glory but he that seeketh his glory that sent him the same is true and no vnrighteousnesse is in him Now al-be-it our Sauiour speaketh chiefly of himselfe in whom is no vnrighteousnesse yet he setteth downe these as notes whereby wee may know both who shall finde the ●●ue doctrine euen he that doth his will and also how we shall know the true teacher which is not hee that séeketh his owne glory but the glory of him that sent him Chap. But how shall wee know the Fathers will Salt The voyce that came out of the cloud at the transfiguration Math. 17 ● where Moses the Minister of the Law and Elias a chiefe man among the Prophets appeared as it were to resigne the right and to shew that Christ whose face did then shine as the Sunne c. was hee that must fulfill the Law and the Prophets that voyce I say did make knowne the Fathers will saying This is my beloued sonne in whom I am well pleased heare him If then wee will giue eare to the Sonne hée will teach vs what we should do It is the will of his Father we should heare his Sonne and his Sonne teacheth vs in his Testament that we must amend our liues beléeue in him and loue one another But by digressing to speake of all faith I thinke you haue forgotten all cruell Creditors for the seasoning of whom you said you would craue some Salt ere you went Chap. I would haue some not onely for them but for all such as are so carryed away with hatred that they cannot frame themselues to forgiue such as haue offended them though when they say the Lords prayer if the searcher of hearts could bee mocked they would make him beleeue they forgiue like good charitable people Salt Here is very good Salt for such if they would taste it and not spit it out againe as many do whatsoeuer their sicke taste liketh not Then came Peter to him Math. 18.21 and said Maister how oft shall my brother sinne against me and I shall forgiue him vnto seauen times 22 Iesus said vnto him I say not vnto thee vnto seauen times but vnto seauenty times seauen times ●3 Therfore is the kingdome of heauen likened vnto a certain King which would take account of his seruants when he had begun to reckon one was brought vnto him which ought him ten thousand talents and because he had nothing to pay his Maister commanded him to be sold and his wife and his children and all that he had and the debt to be payd The seruant therefore fell downe and besought him saying Maister appease thine anger towards me and I will pay thee all Then that seruants maister had compassion and loosed him and forgaue him the debt c. to the 32. verse where it is said that Then his maister called him and said vnto him ô thou euill seruāt 32 I for gaue thee all that debt because thou praiedst me oughtst not thou also to haue had pitty on thy
belike as the children of these married Shepheards some as it should appeare by their bookes haue studied Arithmeticke to learne to multiply and by multiplying to set downe how many thousands of such mens children might bee borne since the beginning of Queene Elizabeth raigne they are affraid belike that the professors of the Gospel should become mightier then they Though some grudge at increase 〈◊〉 S●lomon ●aith In the ●●●●●●de of 〈◊〉 ●●ple is 〈◊〉 ho●●●r of a King Prou. 1.1.28 I hope they be not so cruell as in their hearts to wish that our midwiues would do with them as they did in Egypt with the males of the Hebrewes Salt Surely I thinke that if in the house of any of our Shepheards some maid the liue vnmaried should proue with child these multipliers would say it was the maisters deed If there Shepheards in times past had no more children of their own thē they had wiues of their owne it is well for them I iudge them net I remember an old fellow came diuers times to my doore with these spéeches I was borne in this towne id est Rector and the Shepheard had mée call him vncle but the townes-folke said hée was my father Chap. Yea but such fellowes come not within the multiplyers account but I pray you tell mee why did you aske whether the Shepheards we talked of before were married Salt You shall heare what if the lawes were such that whosoeuer would not féede his Shéepe and farre them in the attire of Turkish Shepeheards should be diuorced ought any whom God hath coupled together to be separated rather then this should bée yéelded vnto Chap. I thinke no for whatsoeuer the attire were there dealings otherwise would sufficiently declare that they were no Turks nor worshippers of Mahomet Salt Well then do you not thinke that when men that feare God hauing will skil do take paines with their flocke-feeding both Sheepe and Lambs do you not thinke I say that such men louing their flocke and the Flocke hearing their voyce are coupled to their Flockes by the Lord himselfe Chap. Yes Salt Why then should not they choose to weare their white garments though Turkish Shepheards should weare or the Shepheards of the Idoll His in Egypt had worne it rather then for this and such like matters be as it were diuorced from their Flockes May not we vse myrrhe aloes cinamon E●on 7.17 because the woorish woman persumeth her head therewith Chap. Shee abused those things and the ornaments named in the 16. vers to serue sin in the chamber not in the Church May not wee sweeten the Church with frank ensence and vse such things as our gouernors call decent because these things were abused to superstition do you thinke that any of those Shepeheards which vse these cloakes heere make such accoumpt of them as the Shepeheards in Italy made of their apparell touching whom a skilfull Shepeheard writeth thus Salt 〈…〉 in preparation the Mass ca. 4. Where good is hourers are wont to cast of their clothes when they goe about their worke the B. and Preists doe cleane contrary putting garment vpon garment when as they goe to worke and a little after he saith that the Aube vpon the gownes is as they interprete it in stéed of a shirt of male and therwith representeth the gowne which Herod gaue to Iesus Christ in a mockery the girdle signifieth a bow and the scourge wherewith they scourged Christ and the little cord wherewith the stole is tyed to his girdle signifieth his quiuer the stole that is to say the breast-plate which goeth about the necke and is crossed ouer the belly like a S. Andrews crosse c. serueth for a launce to shake against the enemy and also in stéed of the cord wherewith Iesus Christ was bound when they scourged him the maniple is his mace c. the chisible is his bucklea c. Chap. To my remembrance I haue heard a Preacher say that one Doctor Durand hath some significations too Salt Yes he saith Amictus est pro galea In ration li. ●● cap. 3. See defence of Ap. p. 39● c. his amice is his head-péece his Albe is his coate of male his girdle is his bow his subsingle is his quiuer his stole is his spear his maniple is his club his chisible is his Larget and in the end he saith Haec sunt arma quibus pontifex vel sacerdos armari debet contra spirituales nequitias pugnaturus These be the peeces wherewith the B. or Priest must he harnised that will fight against the spirituall wickednesse Chap. Haue you read any speeches of any of the Popes touching appparell Salt Some write that Pope Caelestinus the first saith Discernendi sumus a plebe doctrina Cae●e 1. in Epi. ad Epis● Galli● cap. 1. ●i●ed in defen Apo. p. 401. non veste conuersatione non habitu mentis puritate non cultu Si enim studere cuperemus nouitate traditum nobis a patribus ordinem calcabimus vt locum vacuum superstitionibus faciamus docendi potius sunt rudium animi quam illudendi nec imponendum est illorū occulis sed mentibus infundenda praecepta sunt We must be knowne from the lay people by our doctrine not by our coate by our conuersation not by our apparell by the purenesse of our minde not by the attire of our body for if we once beginne to deuise nouelties wè shal tread our fathers orders vnder foot and make roome for superstition the minds of the ignorant ought to be taught and not to be mocked neither may we go about to dazell their eys but rather ought to poure wholesome doctrine into their hearts Chap. I take this to be his meaning that if one came in a Shepheards weed and do not feede he doth nothing but mock them with shewes and not that he would haue a Bishop go like a butcher or a Minister like a milner Salt You may be sure he had no such meaning deither do I think that the Ministers of the Church of Bethelem were so vndiscreet though Saint Ierome describing the orders of that Church saith Hieroni. ad Marcell In veste nulla discretio vtcunque placuerit incedere nec detractionis est nec laudis In apparell there is no difference there is no wondring howsouer a man list to go it is neither slandred nor praised Chap. But our Shepheards may not go as they list In Q. M. time but according to the orders set downe and they say they are the more vnwilling to yeeld for that some wolues which did deuoure not onely many poore Sheepe but also some worthy Shepheards in this land did vse some apparell sutable to this that is appointed to be worne Salt Vnlesse I be deceiued some of those Shepheards that were burnt to ashes did weare the same Chap. If they did I thinke it was more for the peace of the Church then for any fancy they
meaning Christ was a Sheepeheard hee gaue it also to his members for both Peter was a Shepheard and Paul was a Shepheard and the rest of the Apostles were Shepheards and good Byshops are Shepheards Tract Why then the Byshops of Rome if they bee good Byshops they bee good Shepheards Guid. No doubt of that but if you list to reade you shall find some too too bad that many of them haue erred fouly Tract As men but not as Popes Guid. These be nice distinctions and sophistical shifts Hath their Popeship more force to keep them from errour then Peters Apostle-ship to keepe him from denying Christ Tract That was before the holy Ghost sate on him and the rest at Pentecost see Austin de cor do ad Bon. ca. 27. Guid. Then you goe not about to excuse him Sicut eum quidam saith Austin fauore peruerso excusare nituntur As some men of a peruerse fauour endeuour to doe Tract No for I remember what the same Father sayth in the leafe foregoing Quid festinas Petre nondùm te solidauit Petra Why art thou so hasty Peter the Rocke meaning Christ hath not yet staide thee or made thee sound but did he any thing worthie of blame after he wept bitterly and after the receiuing of the holy Ghost and after Christ had him feede his Sheepe commaunding him so thrise as he had denyed thrise to the end as I take it he might thencefoorth be as earnest in feeding as before in denying Did he I say deserue blame after this Guid. Or else Paule was too blame to withstand him to his face for withdrawing himselfe fearing those that were of the circumcision and in that dissimulation not going with a right foote to the trueth of the Ghospell Gal. 2.11 12 13 14 Tract That was at Antioch not at Rome Guid. I did not say it was you know there is no mention in all the Bible of his being at Rome Tract Well though he fayled in that point yet his saith in Christ fayled him not Christ prayed it might not Guid. I do not say that holy Apostles fayth in Christ fayled him I say he did something worthy blame in Saint Paules iudgement but you would conclude hereon if his faith fayled not no Popes faith hath fayled but if you would reade that conference betwixt Maister Reynolds and Maister Hart you should not only see the reason why this Argument is denyed but what soeuer is built for the Popes supremacie vpon any these speaches Thou art Peter c. Whatsoeuer thou wilt binde c. I will giue thee the Keyes I haue prayed for thee Strengthen thy Bretheren Feede my Sheepe Or whatsoeuer is brought for that purpose fully answered And surely whosoeuer will not acknowledge how that reuerend godly learned and humble spirited man hath taken great paines and dealt faithfully in searching for the trueth of the matters there handled is very vnthankefull and doth what in him lyeth to discourage that good man He is not at ●est and all others from dealing any further in these pointes Euery man according to his hability should labour to bring the trueth to light and doe as the Shepheards did Luk. 2.17 when they had found Christ they did not hide the matter but published abroad the thing that was told them of that Child Search at Bethelem Maister Tractable for Christ Search the House of Bread for the Bread of life Search the Scriptures sayth our Sauiour Doe not feede your Couzen with superstition Controuersies in high points should not seperate Christians nor keepe any from that congregation where no Idol but the liuing God is worshiped and called vpon in the name of Christ Doe not vrge olde obiections but seeke for the answeres and when you haue found them and finde them sound and substantiall doe not hide them from other but make them acquainted with them What a number of you haue contented your selues with Masses Pictures Agnus-dei's Crucifixes and such like and through your owne willfulnesse robbed your selues of a number of Sermons which you might haue heard in London and in many other places of this Land since that good Queene Elizabeth came first to the Crowne Rom. We could not robbe our selues of that we neuer had There I caught you once Maister Guidewell Guid. Yea Mistres Romana I know you and my Lady such a one are full of your catches you haue witte enough to quippe and catch but I like not such catching as catcheth a consumption starueth your Soules and purchaseth the displeasure of the Almighty such wittnesse is wickednesse in his sight Rom. You say well Maister Guidewell But to tel you my mind in a word I would be more willing to come to your Church if I did heare that M. Do-wel did vse to come thither Guid. If hee doe not I pray you doe you come and learne both to beleeue well and doe well and then we shall finde mistres Doe-well there Rom. Wee are not to learne now wee haue Sermons more then you know of I would be ashamed there should be any such fruits found in vs as are in a number of you Scripture men Guid. It may bee you are so seasoned now with salt-peter that you cannot doe amisse Rom. Tush Let bloud goe and talke of other bad fruite as incontinency or such other Guid. Let bloud go quoth you you were best indeed not to thirst for it for the Prophet faith The Lord abhorreth the bloud-thirsty and deceitfull man Rom. That is against men and not women Guid. Do not dally with the Scriptures Saint Paul saith Let a man examine himselfes and so let him eate of that bread c. Will you say this pertaineth not to Women Tract The Greeke word Anthropos comprehendeth both Masculine and Feminine Guid. Why then what say you to those words in the first verse of the first Psalme Blessed is the man that doth not walke in the Councel of the wicked nor stand in the way of sinners nor sit in the seate of the scornefull Is not the woman that shunneth such company blessed as well as the man Though the Hebrew word bee Ish the Latine Vir a man I thinke Iesabell had as fearefull a downe-fall as Achab. And whereas you Mistresse Romana thinke that none of your fide haue beene found so loose in life as some Professors of the Gospell I could say something if I either tooke delight in rehearsing other mens faults or thought the sinne of some a sufficient argument to proue the doctrine which all of that side holde to bee corrupt Rom. You cannot finde any such grosse faults in any that be or haue beene in this Land of our side as wee doe finde among you Guid. There bee too many faults euery where God amend vs all But sith you vrge mee so much I will tell you what I heard a Sonne report of his owne Father I protest I will speake no vntruth I heard this as I shall tell you with mine owne eares