a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which
sin My proofe is this in behalfe of your Argument That conscience which is not wholly consenting is not fully perswaded But such is the State or Publike conscience viz. not fully consenting at this time Therefore the State-conscience is not fully perswaded Note Because some are more for it some are lesse for it I prove the State-conscience not fully consenting That conscience which hath not Scripture to secure it cannot be fully consenting or perswaded But such is the Publike conscience at this time concerning this present Government Therefore the Publike or State-conscience cannot be so fully consenting or perswaded Note Because they which cannot call it a Government by Divine Right are not secured concerning it by the Word and then by conscience are not fully consenting nor perswaded Master Ley's Resolution pag 9 10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience and so consequently against commands c. It is more formall but still as feeble Repugnant to Religion and reason against former Protestations and the Covenant for some will alwaies scruple c. Reply Some of this might have been spared Let us have as much reason and as little reviling as may be Your reason is because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred for some will alwaies scruple So as here is the force of your reason Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant therefore Government should First a truth of Government and the establishment of it is but indirectly unsutably and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants Indeed under the Old Testament and in the State of Israel Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church they were part of the Worship then and it was a way of obligation and engagement fitted more to the Policie of that Nation They were a People or Nation of themselves singled out from the world and marked by a carnall Ordinance And their Discipline was fitted to the whole Nation by God himselfe and so Covenants c. gathered them up from the world into their Nationall way of Worship c. But now the way of Church and Worship changing and the Laws of such kind of externall Pedagogie ceasing and a more inward and spirituall Law comming in you might have done well â—re you took things thus for granted to cleere the way of Covenants under the Gospell and not to prove one probable thing by another Those of your way are against a little Church Covenant and why not a great one For the imposing of Protestations now c. It is not my work here to discusse nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with â—ound Prudence and for the spirituall part of them wherein men covenant in the things of God let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind That is the Apostle's rule I am sure what ever any say to the contrary and will stand In civill things I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick in spirituell things only such waies of assurance as are Gospell-waies and may sure with the New Testament-beleevers And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on that is to cleare a Church-covenant which many of your Way are against for though you condemne it in some Churches not of your Way yet a Nationall Church-covenant you plead for And how can this be both true and false that a great Church-covenant is lawfull and a little one unlawfull A Nationall Church-covenant lawfull and a Particular or Congregationall Church-covenant unlawfull This only by the way To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist you were proving a Government and now you are engaged to prove Church covenants which you are both for and against And yet after all this of Protestations and Covenants there is no faire proofe of establishing a Government or imposing it in your way and designe from these It is not safe going to the State for a Paterne for the Church If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement contrive any way of security and assurance necessity is often a law maker in States yet not so in the Church will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church Will you make necessity your Gospell your Law-giver there Necessity is sometimes a suspender of laws in the Gospell but no law-maker Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. But I answer I wonder an ingenuous man as M. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection Reply These are good words and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring Yet we must speak truth Master Ley's Resolution page 10. I answer The Church government is such as in the chiefe parts of it is from the Word Reply You grant then that the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word So was Episcopacie and Prelacy in some parts of it There is not any false Worship or Way but it hath some parts of truth in it The great Image had a head of gold c. The Mystery of iniquity sits in the Temple of God c. The Whore of Babilon sits in Skarlet decked with gold and precious stones and Pearles Truth must be all one and the same and homogeneal not in parts The Jews had not the Law but then their own traditions mingled There is one Lord one Faith not two Master Ley's Resolution page 10. Things of lesser moment in it though they are not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant they are of Prudence and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches Reply But Why of lesser moment All things are of moment of spirituals Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel s they are then as you say of lesser moment and yet of moment too in another sense for Traditions of men make void the Commandements of God Nor are the grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additionall in Worship and Government And if Presbytery take Prudence too let the Reader judge what may follow And what is that Not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant Surely Christ's rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not directly from Scripture is repugnant to Scripture Such is the onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth He that is not with me is against me And for the Reformed Churches as a rule that is to set the Sun by the Dyall and not the Dyall by the Sun We must set the Churches by the Word and not Church by Church and the Word by the Church Master Ley's Resolution page 10. 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part but to the Ministers and Elders Because so far as concerns the peoples compliance they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission Because if any
so exactly now and these knew both the fashion and the time for Building Yet who ought not to hasten the Temple if the Timber be ready and if the Apostles and Prophets be there for a foundation and Iesus Christ for chiefe Corner-ston Ephes 2. Object II. But Vice Heresies and Schisms will grow too fast Answ So they might have done from Iohns first Sermon to Pauls Epistles and the sending of the Spirit but yet you see there was no Government till after setled upon the people of God And if Heresies stir up their Patrons against the State the Magistrate beares not the Sword in vaine And if morall transgressions let the Magistrate be set on in every place to quicken the Statutes and Preachers every where sent forth to publish the Gospell And what if the Prince of Persia withstand for a while Truth is otherwise armed from heaven Though Satan be in the wisdernesse with Corist yet Christ shall conquer It is the Papists and the Prelates Jealousies to keep up their supposed truths by suspecting every thing that appeares for an enemy The Gospell dares walk abroad with boldnesse and simplicity when Traditions of men like melancholy people feare every thing they meet will kill them For the Angell that comes down from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Rev 18. 1. FINIS THE OPENING OF MASTER PRYNNES NEW BOOK CALLED A Vindication OR Light breaking out from a Cloud of Differences or late Controversies Wherein Are Inferences upon the Vindication and Antiquaeres to the Quaeres and by that the way a little cleared to a further Discovery of Truth in a Church-Order by a Conference or Discourse By JOHN SALTMARSH Preacher at Brasteed in Kent Published according to Order LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Sgne of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1645. To the Honourable Philip Skippon Major Generall of the Army raised for the King and Parliament under the Command of Sir Thomas Fairfax Generall NOBLE SIR SVpposing you may take the Book called the Vindication by Master Prynne into your hand I desire that this Discourse may be in your other hand as occasion serves If the Lord hath revealed any thing in this Discourse to enlighten the darknesse of this present Controversie it is onely from him who is the Father of Lights who carries on his to a more excellent way till we may with open face behold the Glory of Jesus Christ and be changed from glory to glory Sir The thing I only contend for is that which the Gospel and Spirit cals for Whatsoever things are pure whatsoever things are honest whatsoever things are of good report Sir The ingagement of private respects which are upon me towards you and being likewise a partaker of some labours of yours in the Lord which are abroad as that of Promises c. The best treasure we have in this life hath drawne this from me The Lord who hath wounded you binde you up and lead you on to the glorious Truths for if I mistake not our Controversie is but this in these times some would walke more close with Christ some can be content like Peter to walke at more distance and follow him afar off and to stand warming themselves with the multitude in the Common-Hall And let the Word judge betwixt us which is of best report Sir Yours in the things of Iesus Christ John Saltmarsh But I have many Reasons I shall now acquaint you with if you will have but patience and not upon a Notion or Name of Heresie and Schism shut up your Windows as against a new light Meteor or some Blazing-Star as too many do we are bidden try the spirits and prove all things Friend be not so discourteous to any Notion that is a stranger it is besides the Aposties rule be not saies he forgetfull to entertaine strangers for some have entertained Angels unawares And this is one Reason further till more come we are but comming out of Babylon you and we were but the other day with the vaile of Prelacy upon our hearts and we are but in healing like the blind man and because yet we see men like Trees shall we therefore judge them to be so and not stay till our eyes be opened that we see better P. Have you no better reasons to convince me These I confesse are something and I will think on them C. Yea look with a single eye upon their principles and take them in their own single Positions not as the world Prints them or reports them this is much a wanting in these times you know what was said of the Christians to Paul As for this sect every where it is spoken against And I see no reason why other opinions which have been held by some Author of one opinion should be all charged upon that one for his sake which neither in it selfe nor any just consequence from it can be proved of any right to belong unto it And if there be any Tares with the wheat they are of the enemies sowing as Christ said to make us go by and not reap there where the Wheat is so scant and the Tares so many P. But O methinks if things were setled about the Church once C. Yea but how will you settle F. How As it is agreed on C. Agreed on What have you not heard of the new Book of the Vindication of the foure Questions P. What of that C. Some of the learned for the Presbiteriall way are divided about setling and know not how to settle the great Ordinance of the Lords Supper upon the Kingdom or Nation P. How Any of our judgement divided I will not beleeve that Surely they are not like your Independent Brethrer to crumble into divisions and severall opinions C. Look you now how you are mistaken I tell you again The Vindication-Book whose Author is as famous and able as your way affords hath writ a large Tractate for mixt Communions or Sacraments against some of that way that are against them P. Beleeve me if it be so I shall be at a stand I thought all of our side that had been for Presbytery had been all of a mind and none had broken out into Factions but they of the other side C. I love not this word Faction on any side yet till we see more I would not misinterpret any willingly You shall heare the reasons on both sides gathered up very narrowly without the passion for I would neither have passion to object nor to confute any thing but meerly Scripture and Reason P. I pray you what are the differences C. A reverend Brother of the Presbyteriall way answers certain Questions of anothers of that way which he it seemes had propounded to the State to be considered on in the setling of things over the Kingdom and some others too in certain Printed Treatises have gone about to confute them so as his Questions which as he professes openly were written only
in things immediately divine and spirituall The consciences of men are under a spirituall and immediate Interpreter of the Word even the Spirit of the Lord in all things of spirituall cognizance as every Scripture-truth or Truth in the Word is and this is not only strengthened and cleer from the Word but from a testimony which some when they read may know better then many others By the Clause According to the Word of God we understand so far as we doe or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God Now each man standing thus ingaged in his owne particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular concerning this to which they are covenanted So as I or you being covenanted against Popery Heresie and according to the Word of God you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveale to the State who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us what our consciences interpret according to this Word against Popery or Heresie unlesse there could be one universall or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolical teachers we may rest So being thus ingaged by Covenant we are at the same time by one and the same Act bound to liberty of conscience in these particulars of the things of God And if there should be any persecution for the pious modest and peaceable liberty so taken and practised whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow that our consciences are not under the Lord Iesus and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God but under the interpretations of men And surely that one Clause according to the Word of God is most providentially inserted for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God how tender ought we to be lest in this dark season of our discerning we oppose somthing of the Word and so in ignorance persecute what we covenant to maintaine I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons Object But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant Answ Nay not every one in every thing The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence as injustice or evill transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace actually and expressely not interpretatively for so the Nations interpreted the Iewes as troublers of the State and the Iewes Christ and his Disciples as movers of sedition The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproâ—ched Puritans as factious and tumultuous So as in all things of Morall Civill or Secular cognizance which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walke by He ought to interpret and proceed by partly because he is the Legislator and so is the best Interpreter and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty and in morals his duty lies out more cleerly but in meerly divine and spirituall interpretations of Truth and Gospell-mystery the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators or Law givers and Interpreters to the conscience Obj. But shall there be no power to compell consciences into Uniformity Answ I shall give light to this by propounding a Case Suppose the severall godly parties or beleevers were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration and were equally numbred and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracie on their side what would come forth according to such principles I sigh to consider There would be edge against edge authority against authority power against power and all the State or Kingdome involved into bloud and confusion So as we must consider things according to their principles not according to their temporary or occasionall advantages Object But you give not enough to the Magistrate Answ Yea more then any He that gives him that which God hath given him gives more then any that pretend to give him the most The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church as some viz. they of the Erastian way 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally and by way of forraigne assistance as others viz. they of the Presbyteriall way 3. They that give him power over body goods over all morall and civill behaviours of men Professors and Beleevers of what sort soever of what opinion soever as I and the rest of our Brethren do praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable godly and quiet life Obj. But why dare you not ingage civill Magistracy in Religion over consciences as some others do Answ Yea in all things morally good and evill God hath ingaged them and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemne and excuse and thus to beare witnesse with their dominion and power But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evill I dare not ingage them whatever others doe over consciences because I give more to their just power and because I dare not draw them into such principles which hath broken more Magistracy then all the other plots and devices of men For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery in the Light of the Spirit not of nature as all meer Gospell-mystery is to ingage the Magistrates Sword into these is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience and so in time to lay in a fatall power or a fatall suffering We know that power which makes Kingdoms soundest in their Dominion and most lasting is the truest and wholsomest and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soule the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed is the safest and most peaceable To my Reverend learned Freind M. LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere published by Master Saltmarsh SIR I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me That I intended to make you my Censor for some Papers which I did not publish Page 1. Sir those Papers were an Answer to Master Fullers last Book and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question as Master Herle serveth and â—e as I heard being dead made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver then shoot them at such a mark For my contending with you in this I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas and Paul and Peter a contention of Brethren not
it self mix with Religion where Churches are Nationall And how can I speake properly but to both where both are in interest For my suggestion of a suspition of haste you know words and phrases are not the same to all one may interpret thus another thus I had no thought of Jehu's driving as you imply when I wrote I must lay the supposed crime at your owne doors for it is none of mine nor have I nor any reason to tax that Honourable Senate whose Counsels are grave and serious and deliberate Had I lookt for Jehu I should have lookt to another coast and quarter where they drive more furiously Why deale you not more candidly Why are you not more faithfull in your interpretation to the Originall For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power none have reason to speak but the guilty it concernes not the innocent It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government or rather ruling we have so much of Prelacie yet left and working in the Countrey with us and if not in the City too I refer you to Master Coleman For the word rendred from the Originall metaphorically I quoted only the Text to my remembrance to the Printers hand and how he came by the metaphor I know not but I find fault as well as you However to make the best of it now translations of Scripture are not all Grammaticall as you know nor to the letter as I could wish them with you For Artificiall Colours or Rhetorioall c. You make me guilty of such vernish as I have not laid on to my knowledge nor have much to lay on if I would Truth and Peace which were my subjects are faire enough of themselves without any colour of mine And I desire not to bring forth either but in the evidence and demonstration of the spirit and if there be any thing of their own beauty there call it not artificiall put not suspitions and jealousies into any that such things as they see are not so to make men Sceptâ—call It is as much injury to Truth and Peace to misreport them as to counterfeit them And for your logicall marshalling my reasons I thank you you took more pains with them then I would doe Notionall order I received them in Nor dare I be too logicall and notionall in things divine Systems and formes of art have done our Divinity some harm Such Classes and methods of reason have been found too strait for the more spirituall enlargements of truth Yet I honour your Learning though I thus speake Master Ley's Resolution Page 9 10. His first reason taken from Rules of Faith Rom. 4. 3 13 c. Now he should have planted his reason directly against the imposing a Government rather then obedience to it as thus c. Those that set up a Government which they are not fully perswaded on sin But they that now set up Church-Government with power c. doe set up a Government whereof they are not fully perswaded on Therefore in so doing they sin The major is true but the minor not because of their faithfull learned Counsellors and Scripture-discussings Reply Since you will help me to prove you are welcome You have furnished me with one Argument more You are a fair enemy to lend out your own weapon And now you have made your Argument half for me I shall make the other half my self You say What the imposers of Government cannot doe in Faith is sin This is your half Argument But you take it for granted Our imposers of Government are not such but such as are fully perswaded and can set up the Government in faith and you prove it thus from those of their Counsellors so near them and from their Scripture-discussions First I know not what Counsellors you mean but they are too wise a Senate to be carried by any interest but their owne and I wish them no other Counsellors then Truth and Peace nor doe I know that they are so fully perswaded of any such Government I beleeve some of them are not so fully principled for your way and then they all are not perswaded so of the Government nor have you yet been able to make out the evidence of every truth you presented them from cleare Scriptures saving your Art of deductions and consequences and prudence and if all cannot be perswaded that State-conscience or Publike conscience is not so wholly nor fully perswaded then as you imply a State or Publike conscience is like a Particular conscience which if it doth not wholly consent is doubtfull or weake for it is not in Spirituall things as in Civill Votes of major parts make laws and they stand good from any such forms of Policie but I never yet saw that rule in the Gospell for any such proceedings in spirituall things but that is a Law in Christs Kingdome not that which is voted so but that which is so in the truth of it For else Popery were the best for it hath most voices and counsels So as unlesse you can prove the Parliament to be of one minde in it how can you prove a Parliament so fully perswaded in minde as you imply Let them prove a Truth by most voices that please or can but I wish the businesse of a State-conscience in a thing of this nature were more enquired into then yet it hath been But if the Parliament were fully perswaded of the truth of the Government yet there would be a new question yea and is very learnedly discussed by our worthy Brethren Master Coleman and the Commissioner how they could be perswaded of the imposing and power of setling For my part if there must be an imposing of Government for I would have the State-consciences left to their liberty as well as Particular and yet Truth to have the liberty of accesse unto them I would have the power of the Parliament laid up there we have had too sad experience when it hath been given out from thence and trusted too far Paul referred himselfe thither I stand saies he at Cesar's Judgement-seat rather then to the Councell of the Priests and Elders Christ had more favour from Pilate a Roman Governor then from Caiaphas the Priest One word more How can the Parliament properly be said to be fully perswaded c. unlesse they could freely signe it with a Jus divinum or divine Right Nothing but Scripture and the Word can properly fully perswade Now if they cannot find so much Scripture as to warrant it for Christ's Goverment how can there be a purely Gospell-warrantable a full perswasion or faith where there wants a word of faith to secure it And now I shall forme your Argument you halfe made to my hand thus and return another with usury Your Argument is this Those that set up a Government which they cannot be fully perswaded on cannot but sin But the Parliament cannot be fully perswaded of this Government Therefore if they set it up they cannot but
Because the Discipline is an hedge or wall about the Doctrine a goad to the Means of Grace a curb to licentious courses though with many it go but to the outward man that is not to be imputed to the Discipline but their corruptions c. 4. Because where the Discipline hath been rightly chosen and setled God hath blessed it with better fruits as in Scotland where there is no Heresie nor Schism c. 5. For that of Elihu in Job Why do not daies speak c. it makes not for his purpose but that Wisdom is with the ancient and gray-headed to be heard before young or green-headed Counsellors c. Reply To your first That the fault was in the choyce of a wrong Government c. I answer That is the feare now least there should be a choyce of a wrong Government and so the same fault should be committed again And this very Government hath no Image of Divine Right upon it nor hath it warrant in all things from the Word as your self acknowledge To your second That Doctrine and Discipline go together c. Yea pure Doctrine and pure Discipline go rightly together and if either be impure or unsound there is so much the more danger So as this is an Argument rather against you because where Doctrine opens the conscience and lets in any thing of Discipline but that of the pure Word there is one evill only mended with another And for your instance of a Schoolmaster who both teaches and corrects You know we are not to prove but to illustrate by similitudes And that of a Schoolmaster is a fitter illustration for the Pedagogie of the Law and that Discipline then the Gospels You know the Apostle uses it only to that The Law was our Schoolmaster c. Gal. 3. To that of your description of the Government that it is a curb a goad c. I answer There is nothing you say of Government in these words but may be said of any civill Government nay of Prelacy when it was in its primitive form But that only which you ought to say and that which only differences it from all devised forms of men as your Covenant binds you and ought to be your only reason for erecting and setting it up is this Is it the Scriptures form or model Is the people so in the exercise and capacity of it as in the Gospell times If so then you prove something And further All this you say is true in a kind too of Christs Government but yet in some sort communicable with devised Governments The only distinguishing and essentiall marks are not to be a curb and goad but the Scriptures only mark and image and some spirituall operations c. which no other devised form of man hath To your other of the blessings and blessed fruits in Scotland that there is no Heresie nor Schism there Let Master Coleman our learned and pious Brother speak for us both from his experiences And for that Kingdom time will shew whether it will prove to be a blessing or no to want that which you call Heresie or Schism Surely to be free from Heresie and Schism in a Scripture sense it is such a blessing as the whole Gospell cannot patern What No Heresie in a whole Kingdom No Schism in a whole Kingdom Never such a pure Church heard on Corinth Ephesus Colosse Jerusalem Antioch all not comparable The worst I wish our Brethren there is that all were so pure as we heare on Indeed Scotland had the honour to awaken us first in the work of Reformation and Liberty but lest Scotland should be puffed up England shall have the glory I hope to improve that liberty to a fuller light which some would close up too soon in the narrownesse of a Presbytery Methinks there is something of this nature considerable in the Lutherans who though they follow the first Light in Germany yet the Lord hath suffered them to stick there without a fuller Reformation that the first may be last and the last be first For if a State be covenanted so close to the Word they had need be favourable and free to all that are accordingly covenanted for each mans conscience is the Interpreter in himself of what makes for or against the Covenant he takes and by this very Covenant you are all to be tender to consciences because the Spirit of God not power of men can intterpret the Will of God but in their civill and prudentiall things only they may interpret themselves To that of Job That with the ancient is wisdom and with the gray-headed which you apply in way of reproach to the younger whom you call as it were green-heads I answer That the elder I esteem as fathers and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously as he himselfe saith Your young men shall see visions and upon your sons and daughters I will powre out my Spirit your old men shall dream dreams Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams or to see visions The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation then to the elder that dream dreams of it only Master Ley's Resolution pag. 15 16. There is great disproportion of times Men were then converted from Paganism and while they were so they were uncapable Our Congregations in England are professed Christians and though there be many not so wrought on by the Word c. That is rather a reason for the establishment of it Ezek. 22. 26 1 Cor. 4. 21. Prov. 23. 13 14. Nor can Sabbath nor Sacraments be administred without it Reply To that of the disproportion you speak on of times and conversion c. I answer The Apostle's and Primitive times are the times we are to looke at for a patern and modell 'T is true there is great disproportion for they were Apostles who gave the government then yet are but private Divines as you say by me if you be compared with them For that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity There is no such disproportion there neither but that very proportion which our Saviour hath himself foretold and set forth For how doth a Iewish and Antichristian State differ Nay how doth a Heathenish or Paganish State differ from an Antichristian or Parochiall State as Parochiall or Parish is in that notion Christ hath put them that are out of the Church under that very notion Matth. 19. 17. and the spirit in the Revelation makes the Antichristian State to be as unlawfull as a Paganish and cals out equally from that as from the other as by comparing 2 Cor. 6. 17. Rev. 18. 4. together will appeare So as speaking of things and notions I cannot but speake in a Scripture way nor am I uncharitable in this neither though I thus speak I looke on thousands in this State as godly beleevers It is not the
saith Absolon If I were a King it should not be thus But what is a qualified Government that is not Christs I can never hope to gather grapes of thornes or figs of thistles Sure it can never be well for for the Trees of the Forrest when the Bramble will reigne Master Ley's Resolution Page 33. There are many of note who affirme the best way to suppresse the multiplicity of Sects is to let them have scope and they will run themselves out of breath but I cannot give my Vote false teachers are not to be tolerated no not for an hour Gal. 2. 5. Reply I would there were more such of that minde I am sure it is safest and soundest It is safest there is no such danger in that of crucifying Christ in ignorance of fighting against God And soundest for so they die out most naturally by their owne unsoundnesse without noise and commotion Sometimes the cure makes the greater disease when the cure is not naturall but violent For that of Pauls withstanding Peter to the face I allow you all such Gospel-wayes of contention so you only withstand them to the face and doe not as the High-Priest did command them to be smitten on the face Oppose with words as Paul did but not with swords taking and turning the Edge of Authority against us Master Ley's Resolution Page 33. We experience saith be But where roads this Writer this phrase Reply You criticise on words I cannot take time to do so I wonder you an Assembly-man have leisure for that this is logomac ice or word-fighting and why not We experience You know our times have found out such ways of elegancy in the English though I thought not any such thing when I wrote But why doe I triffle too To your matter Master Ley's Resolution Page 33. But it appeareth by his c. Whether it be safe to commit the power c. That to commit any power or establish any government especially the Presbyteriall is too soon or suddenly done if done at all Reply Yea and it is not too suddenly if done at all and not done as it ought or in Christs way I am for any thing of Christs when and where and how soone you will Master Ley's Resolution Page 34. We may say as he Some may be like the ten yet others like the two Brethren For two ambitious Presbyterians there may be ten more modest Reply But how come you by such plenty of the better sort It is not thought by most of your way I am sure some of your way were taking care how to furnish their Presbytery their 10000 Parishes And this I know that if there were such plenty Why doe you make shift with so many of the Episcopall stamp who keep their Parishes and resolve while they live to try out all turns of government rather then turne off a tythe of two hundred per annum But I beleeve the English Presbytery and Prelacy are well agreed in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 34. Besides the Presbyteriall government is framed directly according to the Resolution of our Saviour Reply Not so directly neither It is rather directly according to the prudentiall designe of your Assembly as you say so as all yet is but So you say and we say the contrary there is You say and We say Authority not Scripture and evidence carries it on your side And let the Reader judge bet wixt us Indeed you are able to prove by the Magistrate that your Presbytery is some of it Christs way That is an Argument of power not of Scripture Master Ley's Resolution Page 34 35 36. To that he saith The Controversie is hottest about government c. It may be so without fault in those that are for it but not without crime in those that oppose it To that of his Is it good parting with the stakes The Question presupposeth evennesse betwixt parties whereas the difference is betwixt government and no government The high Court of Parliament and all the Orthodox Churches c. on the one side and a small inconsiderable party on the other Nor is it so much injury to resolve for government against them as the Bishops who had possession of Prelacy by a prescription legally c. To that of his It is to be feared there is too much of man It is likewise to be in those who despise government c. And if the Bias run most to this truth of government as he saith it is but as it should be The Bishops government being put downe it is necessary some other should be set up and before all the Presbyteriall And if as he saith some other truths are wholly set by it may be the fault of those who set themselves too much against government I am sure not in such as are for the Presbytery And for his caution as he concludes with I wish he had had more caution in his minde and his paper he had had few faults and a shorter refutation would have served Reply You say The Controversie may be hottest yet no fault in those that are for it but against it But is all the heate in those that oppose it Nay sure Witnesse the importunity the petitioning of your party c. we silent all the time You say The difference is not so equall but betwixt government and no government Parliament and all Orthodox Divines against an inconsiderable party Indeed it is unequall It is betwixt a government of man of Prudence as you confesse and a Scripture government betwixt an huge Nationall Government and Christs little flocke or Church Nor is it a Controversie with the High Court of Parliament we contend not with them but humbly petition and represent the truth unto them but this is the old way to winde in under the wing of Authority and to engage them But they are wise to discern and not to be engaged as their Predecessors were by the Church-men as they called them there are too many sad stories But what of our inconsiderable party We had rather be a few with truth then a multitude against it And how inconsiderable soever we are in number the stone cut out without hands may fill the earth the Kingdome of Christ and the worlds are not so one as you would make them Unus homo totius orbis impetum fustinuit It was said of Euther He was but one against a world Your non-conformists were but inconsiderable to the Kingdom of Prelacy almost A pebble in the band of David may do more then a mighty speare in the hand of Goliah You say The Bishops had a better prescription even by Law for their government then we But how is this Is a legall prescription better hold then a Gospell prescription Is it more priviledge to be founded upon a Statute or Act of Parliament then Scripture You say If too much of man be in this Controversie it is in those that oppose and despise Government But what is that to our Controversie
of Master Goodwyns and Master Nye not so pleasant as true The Clergie had at first the golden ball of government amongst themselves and it is not much mended any where but in that Church where the people have their Interests as well as others they are the Clergie properly a notion which the Ministers got only to themselves till of late The interest of the people in Christs Kingdom is not only an interest of complyancy and obedience and submission but of consultation of debating counselling prophesying voting c. and let us stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches nay is the greatest separation VVHat is a Presbytery over Congregations or a Congregation but a Church gathered out of a Church Nay is not that the only Church and the remainder of people made but an accessory or something of another kind or rather the Nation or Kingdom which is only subject to this power supream And though Presbytery be but a Church-gathering and founded on a Principle of seperation yet do they not disapprove and condemn seperation and semi or halfe-seperation and Church-gathering for Schism c When their own power is a Schism respectively to the Parishes that are distinct and whatever distinction is formed to make them appear as part of their Congregations yet is it indeed so Is not their whole power defended to be entirely essentially dispensatively in the Presbytery called by themselves the Church and by the very authority of one whom I name with reverence to his learning and moderation Master Herle So as I wonder why there should be such envyings raylings accusings dissentings betwixt us that are beleevers though of severall waies when as each is principled founded administred upon the same ground and way of Schism seperation and Church-gathering nay the Presbytery hath more Schism and separation in it then the rest by how much it is constituted from the people and Brethren and Acts in its ministration apart too viz. over the people rather then with them None to be forced under Christs Kingdom as in the Kingdoms of the world IN a Spirituall Government the ignorance of people which some would have for expedition that they may practically know it is no Scripture way of knowing in practicall godlinesse things must be known before practically known and practice is to begin from faith and faith from knowledge else the obedience can be but blind mixt and Popish Indeed in things civill or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acquired and gotten by Acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient by practising civill obedience but it is not so in spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices Indeed the Laws of States and Kingdoms and Civill Policy teach men best by ruling them practically but it is not so in the Church men are not to be forced into Christs Kingdom as into the Kingdoms of the world the Kings of the Nations exercise their Dominion it shall not be so among you The power of a formall Râ—formation in a Government makes it not Christs Government A Government though not purely Christs may be made up of such Scripture and prudentiall materials as may much reform the outward man even as a meer prudentiall Civill-Government may do if severely executed The Romans by how much they excelled other Nations in Laws so much the more they excelled them in a people reformed moralized and civilized in many Civill States meerly from their wholsome Policy and administration excellent and precious flowers spring up many morall vertues as prudence temperance obedience meeknesse love justice fortitude Yet all this makes not a Government to be Christs but only that which is meerly the Discipline of Christ and Policie of Christ Prelacie in its Primitive time did reforme the beast like a lamb which compelled the Nations to Worship and made even fire to come down from Heaven or was religious in the eyes of men and did miracles yet was no true nor heavenly Power neither There are certain parts and degrees of Reformation common and communicable with the Government of Christ and other Governments but then there is a forme and Image of Christ in it which no others have and some certain spirituall operations and workings which exceed the power of all other Governments and this makes the difference and puts on the essentiall true and individuall forme upon it so as in choyce of Governments they are not to be chosen by some Summer fruit in the outward man but by the Word and Spirit The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall THe invisible or mysticall Church is made up of pure living stones all is spirituall and yet all not spirituall in the like kind nor degree Jesus Christ the corner stone is both God and man and some of his differ in glory as one Star differs from another and as it is here in this spirituall invisible glorious building so it is in the outward visible Communion below or building here which is the Image of that above The Temple here is acording to the Patern there and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church here is to consist of such as visibly formally and outwardly appeare so and therefore called Saints and golden Candlesticks and holy Natio c. And though all the materials in this building are to be proportionable and pure to make up a representative of the Church above yet all is not of one square and measure and polishing some are greater and some lesse some Babes and children in Christ some smoaking Flax and bruised Reeds And as this Church bears the Image of the heavenly so the mateâ—â—â—ll one bore the Image of this there was pâ—ne stones gold and Cedar so as there is room in the Church now for any small stone or the least peece of timber if it be but lively or squared if Cedar or Firrâ— How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head CHrist is a King to the Nations and to the Church nor doth he rule the Nations as the Church nor the Church as the Nations he rules ministerially in his Church and Monarchically in the Nations he rules with a goldâ—n Scepter in his Church with an iron Rod in the Nations Nor doth Christ rule as the Kings of the Nations who finding people rude barbarous uncivill subdue them into obedience and civility but so doth not Christ in his Church that we know on the dispenâ—ation of his Word not of the Government first â—ubdues And it is true Christ is an Head but not an Head to every body he will have a body proportionable to his Head both here and hereafter in earth as well as in heaven he is a pure holy glorious Head in his Gospel-dispensation and
will peaceably joyne with them in the Kingdom under that Power and not to trouble the Magistrate further and the other Brethren as peaceably to enjoy their other Divine Right as the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way theirs and all alike under the same Civill Power and neither of them with it and all other Reformed Kingdomes in unity of the Spirit and love to one another Principles destructive to their present Petition extracted from the Inferences 1. The Presbytery now not so distinct in gifts and office but the Magistrate may rule with them THe Eldership and Presbytery in the primitive Churches had a spirit anointing them to such Administrations but now as the anointing is not so nor is the Office pure peculiar and distinct the Magistrates and Parliament have gifts as spirituall as there are any now in the pretended Presbytery and may therfore as well put forth a Power in their Churches or Congregations as they unlesse their Churches Officers and Gifts were more Christs then they are 2. The Magistrate may better rule then the Eldership or present Presbytery The Magistrate is unquestionably a power of God and the present Presbytery are Officers questionable in their Offices Gifts c. Therefore the Magistrate may more lawfully put forth a Power coercive to sin then they 3. Vniformity in the Word of God is the Vniformity of Churchâ—â— They that presse the Covenant for Vniformity so penally as they do make it a snare of compulsion not in the Word of it but in their Interpretation of that Word unity in the Spirit makes up the want of Uniformity in the Letter Kingdoms are to be no more compelled to Vniformity in Laws Ecclesiasticall then in Civill but may walke together as Beleevers so far as they have attained that clause according to the Word of God makes roome for the severall statures of Christ and measures of light in the Covenant and they that agree in that are truly Vniforme for it is the Vniformity with the Word not with one another but so far as we are all alike in that Word which is the very Vniformity of the Kingdom of Christ 4. The Magistrate as they now make him is Ecclesiasticall as well as they They that ascribe a Power to any to compleat and actuate them in their Ministration do acknowledge that very Power by which they are informed to be in those that so informe and compleat them so as the very Petitioning a State for Power and qualification for Eldership and Presbytery doth imply a Presbyteriall and Ecclesiasticall Power in that State and if so the Magistrate may as well govern in that Church as any ruling Officer they have 5. The present Presbytery in mystery both over and under the Magistrate They that are a Magistracy neither over nor under the Presbytery tell me in what spheare or where rule they for over it they are not Commissioners they say are contrary to the Word and under it they are not for their Presbytery is accountable as they say unto â—â— so as they who are so much in the dark with their Government do with Magistracy they know not what and would place it they know not where The Position being a safer way for the Magistrate then the Erastian and how the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot justly exclude him from ruling with them according to the present constitution both of the pretended Church and Presbytery THat the Magistrate or Parliament cannot be excluded from Government in this present Presbytery as the present Assembly would exclude them because this Kingdom of England is not a Church in Gospell-order but a Kingdom of Beleevers in generall and because their present Presbyters and Elders are no true Presbyters of Jesus Christ according to Gospell-order and till both this Nationall Church and Officers be that very Kingdom of Christ and those very Officers of Christ the Magistrate may as lawfully yea more lawfully rule then any other pretended Officer Minister or Elder amongst them for Magistrates have the whole Kingdome of the world allowed them from God for their place of Government And this Kingdom of England being but a Kingdom or world of Beleevers not a Church they may as they are powers of God rule amongst them Jesus Christ being only King and head in that Church or Kingdom which is more his own and the Magistrates Kings for him in that Kingdom which is the worlds or lesse his own so as the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot exclude the Civil power from governing with them according to the unsound constitution of their Church Ministers and Elders nor till they have proved the truth both of their very Church Ministery and Eldership for all Scripture proofes of Eldership and Presbytery is respective to the true Presbytery and Eldership according to Truth not to every pretended Presbytery and Eldership of the Nations so as till the very Constituting Principles of Presbytery be proved â—â—ue no Scripture either alleadged for Presbytery belongs to them nor any other by which they would exclude the Magistrate as from the Church of Christ Conclusion These few things I have writ to draw forth the strength of others in a thing of this Nature which is of high concernment in the things of Gospell-order as any point now abroad for surely it is not a Vniversity a Cambridge or Oxford a Pulpii and Blacke gowne or Cloake makes one a true Minister of Iesus Christ though these are the best things in the composition of some the Mystery of Iniquity hath deceived the world with a False and Artificiall unction for that true one of the Spirit and the Ministery hath beene so cloathed with Art and Habit that if the Apostles should live again and preach in that plainnesse they came they would be as despised for we wonder after the Wise the Scribe and the Disputer of this World FINIS An End of ONE CONTROVERSIE BEING An Answer or Letter to Master Ley's large last BOOKE called LIGHT FOR SMOKE One of the Assembly at WESTMINSTER Which he writ lately against me In which the Summe of his last Booke which relates to the most materiall Passages in it is gathered up and replied to By Iohn Saltmarsh not revolted as Master Ley saith from a Pastorall Calling but departed from the Antichristian Ministery by Bishops and now a Preacher of the Gospell Isa 5. 20. Woe be to them that put darknesse for light Acts 19. 32. Some therefore cried one thing and some another for the Assembly was confused and the most part knew not wherfore they were come together Ver. 41. And when he had spoken this he dismissed the Assembly LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. THE Law of Nature giving a man leave to speake fairely in his owne just defence and the Law of Grace requiring him to speake zealously in the defence of Truth I thinke it equall that this answer to Mr Ley should be printed April 15. 1646. John Bachiler The LETTER
flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edwards his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur May 26. 1646. IOHN BACHILER To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa be cannot but answer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no. Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and those not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to preach to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in Horme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independent's and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any un neighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies isai 11 6 7 8. Revel 21. 26. Isai 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and where ever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Uinity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions as we are made beleeve no more then there was for
the Presbytery before ye in the Prelacy Therefore consider things 10. That these Ministers though some of them were old Non-conformists and have a power of God in them which I desire to love under any Forme yet according to their Interests they are not so nor to the flesh they are not so and it is their old man I write against not their new so far as they are men and so far as they are persecuters so far as they are lovers of gaine not of godlinesse so far as they are accusers of their Brethren so far as they are in the Forme of Godlinesse not in the power Therefore consider these men are not all spirit and truth we are not to call one of them Iubiter nor the other Mercurius They are men of like passions with us and ye and the worst I wish saving their humour of Persecution is that the Lord would make them love us in the Spirit and we shall in all love allow them their Formes To Mr. GATAKER SIR I Hope I shall answer all things materiall in your Book but your Margin I shall not meddle with I observe you commonly in all your books fill that with things and Authors of little value to Christ crucified As in your last leafe where you quote Sophecles the Poet comparing your selfe to an old prancing horse I should not rebuke your yeers but that I find you Comicall and Poeticall and for my part I am now ashamed to own those Raptures though I am young having tasted straines of a more glorious Spirit how much more you that are old and call your selfe a Divine ought not to have any fruit in those things I hope I shall be in no more passion with you than with your Brother of the Assembly Mr Ley. I write to edifie not to conquer nor to teach others but that we may be all taught of God JOHN SALTMARSH To the Author of the PLEA for the Congregationall or as he should have said Parishionall Government SIR A word to you the Author of the Plea You have so entangled and wrapped your selfe in the Congregationall and Church-principles as if you meant to engage me at once against your Presbytery and the dissenting Brethren But that Spirit which makes me oppose you makes me discerne your designe and so I hope I shall single you from them though you have cloathed your selfe in their Apologeticall Narration yet I must deale with you as your self and your Brethren not as theirs and it is but a little I have to say to you But why no Name Is your Divine Right so questionable that you will not own it or are you one of them that sit too neare it to commend it with open face and think you may better and more modestly do it in disguise and without a name Had I not some reason to suspect it came from some of that sort I had passed it by with as little noise as it came abroad And I have but little to say to you now I cannot stand long wrangling in things that grow clearer and clearer every day for the day breaks and the shadowes flie away SHADOWES FLYING AWAY Or A Reply to Master Gataker's Answer to some passages in Master Saltmarsh his Booke of FREE-GRACE Master Gataker 1 THat he was traduced by one Master John Saltmarsh a man unknown to him save by one or two Pamphlets as witnessing to the Antinomian party 2 That he must unbowell and lay open some of the unsound stuffe 3 That some think they have found out a shorter cut to Heaven 4 That my inferences upon his words are not true nor as he intended As if a Protestant with a Papist disputing about the Masse should say the Controversie is not concerning the nature of Sacraments c. Answ To the first that you were traduced by me Let not you and I be judge of that both our Books are abroad and I have quoted your words to the very leafe where they are Your meaning I could not come at the deep things of the heart are out of the power of anothers quotation For my selfe unknown to you but by two Pamphlets I take your sleighting I could call your Treatises by a worse name then Treatises for I knew one of them some yeers since that of Lâ—ts wherein you defended Cards and Dice-playing And it had been happy for others as well as my selfe in my times of vanity had you printed a Retractation I beleeve you strengthened the hands of many to sin I know you love ancient Writers well by your Margin and quotations And I pray remember how Augustine honoured Truth as much by confessing Errours as professing Truths What fruit should you and I have of these things whereof we are now ashamed For your witnessing to the Antinomian party against your will Is that your fault or mine Nor am I to judge of your reserves and secret senses but of words and writings Nor is it an Antinomian party I alleadge you to countenance but a Party falsly traduced and supposed so a Party called Antinomian by you and others and then writ against A setting up Hereticks to deceive the world and then telling the world such and such are the men You may make more by this trick then you find so To the Second that you will lay open the unsound stuffe I shall not be unwilling I hope to be told my failings but I must look to the stuffe you bring in the roome of mine and entreat others to trye the soundnesse of yours It is not my saying that mine is sound will make it better nor your saying it is unsound can make it worse Let every ones work be proved and then he shall have whereof to boast To your Third of some finding out a shorter cut to Heaven then some former Divines I know not what you meane by shorter cuts The Papists find a way they say to Heaven by works some Protestants by Jesus Christ and works and others by Jesus Christ alone and make works the praise of that Free grace in Jesus Christ And is that a shorter cut then theirs as you call it or rather a clearer revelation of Truth Methinks you expressions have too much of that which Solomon cals frowardnesse in old men Argue and prove and bring Scripture as long as you please but be not too quarrelsome But I shall excuse you in part because you tell us you are not yet recovered from sicknesse so as I take this with other of your Books as part or remainders of your disease rather then your judgement and the infirmity of your body not the strength of your spirit But why chose you not a better time to trie Truth in when you were not so much in the body To the Fourth That nothing lesse was intended by you I undertook not to discover your intents to the world You might have don well to have revealed your selfe more at first that I might not have taken you to be more a friend to Truth
then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mote and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciltation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a working for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speak To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men