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A10341 A replye answering a defence of the sermon, preached at the consecration of the bishop of Bathe and Welles, by George Downame, Doctor of Divinitye In defence of an answere to the foresayd sermon imprinted anno 1609 Sheerwood, Rihcard, attributed name. 1614 (1614) STC 20620; ESTC S113712 509,992 580

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and after him Simon to that Bishoprick because they were our Saviours kinsmen according to the flesh For certainly they had learned better of their Lord and Maister when he preferred his spiriti●all kindred before his carnall c. Ye have heard the Refuter now listen to Mr Doctor and weigh the answer Thus is he able saith he as it were with a breath to blow away these worthy Sect. 4. ad sect S. p. 60 Authors c. What is this but a slanderous scoffe for all men may see the Refut indeavoured to salve their credit as farre as the love of the truth would permit him neyther concealed he the reasons that lead him so to censure them as he did yet as if he had yeelded no reason of his censure the Doctor asketh why vnsavoury why carnall and assayeth by reasons of his owne to wype away those imputations 1. was it not saith he a speciall honour for one among the Apostles without that traveile and wandring wherevnto the rest were subiect to be set over the Mother Church of Christendome and to be the Apostle of that people c. In the Apostleship of the circumcision Peter and Iohn were joyned with him Gal. 2. 9. and herein if any had preheminence or precedence before the rest it was Peter verse 7. But since by Iames his Apostleship of that people the D. meaneth his supposed Bishoprick at Ierusalem I statly deny that this gave him any precedence in honor before his fellow Apostles And I have often shewed that the prerogatives of that Church and people could not convey unto their Bishop any such prehenminēce sect 7. and 18. neere to the end of each that he assumeth more then he can prove in affirming him to be wholly exempted from that traveile which the rest indured See sect 10. I now adde that his residence at Ierusalem gave him onely some more ease but not greater glorie nay the lesse if Doctor Bilsons third interpretation of the Apostles words 1. Tim. 5. 17. be as he saith they are cōfonant to the words and intent of the Apostles viz. that those Ministers which labour in the word that is to say traveile to and fro to visite and confirme the Churches are in honour to be preferred before resident Pastors I might ask the Doctor whether it be the greater honour to haue the commission that the reverend Iudges have which traveile from one shre to an other to execute their office or without such traveile to be the Major of some one towne or citie But since he urgeth the same reason for Iames that Bellarmin doth for Peter he shall haue the same answere that Doctor Whitakers de Pont. Rom. quest 2. ca. 9. sect 10. pag. 255 yeeldeth him Imo Pauli videtur multo honorificentius fuisse munus Latior enim Pauli provincia Et Christi regnum erat brevi Iudaeis auferendum c. By this time I hope the Refuter may have his discharge frō wronging Clemens in saying his speach was vnsavoury Yet is it much more unsavoury and absurd if that reading be received which many excellent divines doe approve Non sibi vendicabat primatus gloriam sed Iacobum qui dicitur Iustus episcopon apostoloon apostolorum episcopum statuerunt They challenge not to themselves the glorie of the primacie but chose Iames the Iust to be the Bishop of the Apostles See Calvin and Marlor in Act. 15. 13. Cent. 2. col 193. Catalog test verit in fol. col 89. And if D. Sutcliffe a great freind of the prelacie be not deceived de pontif lib. 2. cap. 1. pag. 67. 68. this reading is to be preferred Sed exemplaria saith he et graeca et latina habent Apostelorum quibus potius fidendum est quam Parisiensibus aut Vaticanis Et cont extus Eusebij pro nobis facit Eus●bio enim propositum erat Iacobi prerogativas dicere preterea primatus gloria ipsi tributa maius quiddam quam vnius vrbis episcopatum subinsinuat But although the Doct. give Iames a precedence in honour and for order above the rest of the Apostles and that in respect of his Bishoprick yet he is loath as it seemeth to allow him this title the Bishop of the Apostles Perhaps he conceiveth that it had bene arrogancie to receive it though offred unto him and that it would have advanced him to an higher degree of Ministerie which he truely denieth to agree with him seing there was none higher then the Apostleship But I would faine knowe how he can deny him an higher degree of Ministerie if that precedence in honour which he ascribeth to him above his fellow-Apostles arose from an other function that is his Bishoprick which he alone injoyed for I hope he will grant the functions of an Apostle of a Bishop to be different degrees And I suppose he knoweth that among differing degrees as Deacons or Presbyters c. the precedence of honour groweth from the higher degree and not from the lower But perhaps he dreameth that Iames his Bishprick at Ierusalem though a degree inferiour to the Apostleship set him notwithstandinge in an higher place of honour above other Apostles even as at Rome the title of a Cardinall presbyter or Deacon given to a Bishop though in it self it be a degree inferiour to the episcopal function doth yet advance him in dignity and honour above all other Bishops But this dreame sureth much better with Cardinall Bellarmin then with D. D. profession and so I leave it Touching the next imputation the Doctor asketh whether they Sect. 5. were not bound in respect of that love and reverence which they did owe to Christ topreferre his neere kinsmen according to the flesh being at the least equall with others and addeth that it is certeyne that Iames for his admirable piety was wonderfully honoured c. Of this admirable piety who doubteth But wil that prove him to be every way equal in all spiritual graces The Apostle Iohn hath this title given him in holy writ The Disciple whom Iesus loved Iohn 13. 23. and 20. 2. 21. 20 24. since the ground of his love was not kindred in the flesh ought we not to judge it was some preheminence in true piety or some other spirituall grace It is cōmon saying and a true Invidia virtutis comes est Envie is the companion of vertue Wherefore seing the envie and malice both of Herod and the rest of the Iewes seazed upon that other Iames the brother of Iohn Act. 12. 2. 3. that he became the first Martyr among the Apostles as Steven was among the Deacons Actes 6. and 7. is it not probable that some preheminent grace occasioned their malice to breake forth into such extremitie S. Peter who was at the same time imprisoned like as he was before cap. 4. 3. 8. hath many titles of preheminence given him by the Fathers which our owne divines Sutcl de pont lib. 2. cap. 7. p. 123. Whit. de pont quest 2.
of three yearees afterwards sendeth T●mothy to be their Bishop who ordinarily continued among them vntill his death And that we should not thinke there was but that Church at Ephesus in Pauls time he maketh mention of the Churches of Asia 1. Cor. 16. 19. In all this if there be any probability it lieth in his last wordes wherein he seemeth thus to argue S. Paul maketh mention of the Churches of Asia Ergo you may not think there was but that Church at Ephesus in his time The consequent of this Enthymem is subtilly set down If his meaning be to perswade his reader that there was more The D. laieth downe his consequence subtilly then one Church at Ephesus in Pauls time because he mentioneth Churches in Asia his consequence is worse then nought nothing hindreth his Refuter to think that there was one onely Church at Ephesus although there were more Churches in Asia That epistle to the Corinthians wherein he mentioneh the Churches of Asia was written before his departure from Ephesus recorded Acts. 20. 1. as we maye gather 1. Cor. 16. 5. 8. 10. compared with Acts. 19. 21. 22. yet when after this he had speach with the Elders of Ephesus those many Elders which he now telleth us Paul had there placed they had no severall titles or cures but in cōmon attended the whole flocke or Church as himself avoucheth serm pag. 18. from the very words of Paul Acts. 20. 28. where he doth apparantly contradict himself if he now labour to perswade that there were at that time more Churches or distinct congregations A contradiction in the D. if he c. then one that Ephesus But if in arguinge as he doth he intend no more then this to shewe that in Pauls time besides that Church at Ephesus there were in Asia some other Churches what is this to the purpose I meane to prove that in Saint Iohns time each of the 7. Asian Churches conteyned diverse congregations As for that he addeth of Timothy sent vnto Ephesus to be their Bishop his ordinary cōtinuance there vntil his death it is sooner said then proved as shal be shewed hereafter were it true it giveth him no help to justify his former assertion of diverse congregations in every of these Churches But 2. he proceedeth to shew that Peter likewise by his preaching converted many in Asia And 3. after the death of Peter and Paul S. Iohn went into those parts preached the Gospel for many yeares ordeyned Byshops Presbyters where need was 4. Wisheth vs to add to the Ministery of the Apostles the preachings of the Byshops and Presbyters ordeyned by them and Disciples whom they had instructed by whose Ministery some Churches were brought to the fayth as that of Colossae in the Cōfines of Phrigia in Paules time From all which particulars in stead of cōcluding that which he pretended to make more then propable viz. that the 7. Churches of Asia conteyned each of them diverse congregations he appealeth to the conscience of every indifferent reader whether it be not unlikely that not in any one of these famous Churches no not in that of Ephesus there were in the whole citie country belonging to it any more then one ordinary congregation after the preaching of such and so many for the space of 45. yeares Wherevnto for answer 1. I also appeale to the cōscience of every indifferent reader whether the D. hath not proved himselfe a notable tri●●er The Doct. a notable trifler when he thus disputeth It is very unlikely that there should not be in any one of those famous Churches no not in that of Ephesus that is in the whole citie country belonging to it any more then one ordinary cōgregatiō Therefore it is more then propable that they all conteyned diverse congregations But 2. how often will the D. contradict himself doth he not confidently affirme serm pag. 18. that in the Apostles times parishes were 10. The D. cōradicteth himself not distinguished not any Presbyters assigned to their several Cures And doth he not still maintaine the same position def pag. 69. onely he excepteth the Church of Alexandria which was far● from any of these 7. And. 3. had not the Churches of Ierusalem Rome as great helps to enlarge them by the Ministery of many excellent Teachers and for as many yeares yet himselfe denieth any ordinarie congregations to be multiplied in them See we what he saith plainely for the one pag. 92. and 124. and more closely touching the other pag. 88. And 4. since he acknowledgeth that th●se Churches were much annoyed with heretiks as Paul foretolde since that which he foretolde Act. 20. 29. 30. did principally concerne the Church of Ephesus and himselfe complayneth of their generall forsaking him in Asia 2. Tim. 1. 15. moreover since it appeareth even by the testimonie of Iohn or rather of Christ himselfe that Ephesus had left her first love and that partly by persecutions and partly by false Teachers the prosperitie and growth of those Churches was much hindred Revelat. 2. 4. 9. 13. 15. 20. and 3. 2. 16. the indifferent reader will easily se● how litle likelihood there is that there should be eyther in Ephesus or in any the rest of those cities of Asia any more then one populous congregation of Christians 5. Lastly if any man think that after the preaching of such and so many as he saith for the space of 45. yeares it is probable there were more then 7. ordinarie congregations let him judge indifferently betwixt the Doctor and his Refuter whether it be not more likely his Refuters assertion is true that there were no more then 7. distinct Churches such as Colossae Magnesia and Trallis whereof he speaketh then that each of the 7. as the Doctor affirmeth was divided into severall Congregations And this may suffice I doubt not to shewe that the Doctor Sect. 12. ad pag. ●1 hath sayde nothing to disprove that first braunch of his Refuters reason for the deniall of the consequence of his Proposition when he sayd that it doth not appeare neyther is it true that every one of these Churches was divided into diverse severall ordinarie assemblies The other two braunches the Doctor telleth us he will ioyne togither And in deed they must concurre not onely one with the other but also both of them with the former For if he could have proved by much more pregnant arguments then he can that those 7. Churches had bene ea● of them divided into diverse congregations yet it will not followe they were Dioceses vnlesse it appeare also that all of them did depend upon one Cathedrall Church as cheife and had not the power of ecclesiasticall government apart in themselves Wherefore all his labour is lost if he produce not better probabilities to disprove these two later points If saith he there were but one Bishop for the Church both of the citie and Countrye as there were but 7. in all